Prabhupāda: Well he is not śūdra, he is master. Svāmī means master and śūdra means servant. Svāmī, actually Svāmī means who is master and śūdra means servant you should understand what is Svāmī and master means master of the senses. Just like we are teaching our students to become Svāmī.
How? No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat eating, no gambling. So they are being trained to become master because everyone is servant of these principles. So Svāmī does not mean śūdra, a śūdra cannot become Svāmī because śūdra is a servant. Servant means servant of the senses. Now these boys are being trained to become master they do not even smoke they do not drink tea, they do not drink coffee. At least they have become masters of these things and gradually they will become master more and more. If you can control your tongue then you can control your belly and then you control your genitals a straight line.
If you cannot control your tongue how you can become master of the senses. Therefore in the śāstra it is said, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). "God realisation is possible when one engages his senses, especially the tongue." Now it will be surprising when you hear that by controlling the tongue we can realise God. But that is a fact.
Therefore we are teaching controlling the tongue, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. The controlling business begins from the tongue. Therefore these things are prohibited. Don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this. And although one who is already conversant with this controlling he is not a śūdra he is a Svāmī.
Guest (3): We are at the present time in a real reality in regard, spirit souls we are fragments of the Godhead of Kṛṣṇa God. Our goal in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is to encourage eventually to this Godhead and at the present time we are recognisably in a state of māyā here and are being governed by the three states, three states of matter.
What was the reason according to you why man has lost this perfection in the beginning? In other words it would seem to me that if in this pristine stage when we would be as it were with Kṛṣṇa why would we ever want to depart at all.
Prabhupāda: It means.
Guest (3): Departing and getting involved.
Guest (3): In this māyā the illusory matter.
Prabhupāda: It is not very difficult just like one falls victim of some disease and again by treatment he can recover from the disease and these Europeans and American boys they are becoming recovered, by the disease, illicit sex, meat eating, gambling, intoxication.
So they fell victim to these similarly we have got little independence we can fall down and we can raise ourselves up, become elevated. So it is to be understood that as by desiring to be elevated we become free from all these unwanted things, similarly by desiring we fell down. And by desiring I can elevate similarly, so it is to be understood that by desiring I fell down.
So desire is there, so I can fall down, I can raise myself and that requires association. So your question is how we fell down? Because you desired it. Now when I desired, how I desired? Then you have to trace out the whole history but you are eternal when it has begun it is very difficult to find but it is a fact because you desired to Lord it over the material nature we have fallen down. Here everyone is trying to Lord it over that is the tendency, this is material life.
I’m trying to Lord it over, you’re trying also to Lord it over then there is competition, then fight. There is no submission. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's instruction He says, "you nonsense first of all submit,"sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is the beginning because everyone is puffed up he has no submission. So that is the difficulty. We become puffed up we want to imitate God. Now one so and so is denying God we are thinking that by inventing something we are saying, "what is the use of God?" What the scientists say?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: He's a scientist.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They said God didn’t create the universe. Scientists discovered the physical rules governing these laws of motion of the planetary motions and therefore they say God is not necessary to ah. To investigate for the wellbeing of the human being so therefore God is not necessary.
Prabhupāda: Is that a very scientific proposal? God created now we are trying to know the laws therefore there is no necessity of God. Is that very sound proposal? What do you think?
Guest (3): (indistinct)
Guest (3): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes thank you. It is called demoniac love... Yes?
Guest (4): Is it possible for a member of the śūdra class... caste to become a brāhmaṇa?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Just like any ordinary man can be educated and he can become a doctor or a scientist or a Doctor of philosophy.
Guest (4): So there is a kind of democratisation.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, guṇa-karma, karma means by action. Just like you are educated nicely as a chemist when you act as a chemist then you are well educated. If you simply know chemistry and do not act then you are not a chemist.
So one should be trained up and at the same time will act then we will accept. That is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, your question, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yonayaḥ born in sinful life, pāpa-yonayaḥ lower class, low born pāpa-yonayaḥ, striyo śūdrās tathāvaiśyās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Even women, śūdras, vaiśyas if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he goes.
So there is no bar, there is no hindrance everyone can take it up it is open to everyone. So everyone should be given the chance to become a perfect brāhmaṇa—that is brahminical culture—that is Vedic culture. Because the human life is a chance to understand God in the lower animal life there is no such chance. A dog cannot be educated to understand God but a man can be. So if this human life is misused in the matter of animal propensities then it is a great loss. His propensities for understanding God should be aroused that is real education, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām.
Eating sleeping sexual life and defence this is common to the animals and the human beings. This special significance of human life that he can understand God, the animal cannot. So if a human being is not given chance to understand God then he remains animal. So there is no such chance in the University education and there is no department of knowledge to understand God. You know so.
Guest (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda can you explain how we can become more Kṛṣṇa conscious? Without wearing a dhoti and shaving our heads?
Prabhupāda: Well, dhoti's these are not very important things.