Prabhupāda: Where? You recite the śloka.
Guest: Well, I can't . . .
Prabhupāda: That's all. This is not question. If you have no clear idea, where the question? Where it is stated? Do you . . . are practically can do that—a piece of gold and piece of stone, the same thing? There is a verse, sama-loṣṭrāśma-kāñcanaḥ (BG 6.8). So that is very advanced stage, when one knows that everything is made of matter, so what is the value? Why you can't give more value to the stone, because originally everything is made of matter?
There is one thing, paṇḍitāh sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). But that is when one has attained a very perfectional stage, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man, you cannot say that, "I treat a piece of stone and piece of gold the same way." Then why don't you take a piece of stone? Can you say? Suppose if you have gone to a, purchasing to a goldsmith shop. So I say: "Sir, you take this ornament made of stone and you pay me the price of gold," would you agree? Then there is no such . . .
It must be practical. In the practical life that is very higher stage. Those who do not care either for . . . just like Sanatāna Gosvāmī. Sanatāna Goswāmī was (in) Vṛndāvana. He was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, always. Then, one brāhmin, he was very poor—perhaps you know this story—he worshiped Lord Śiva, and when Lord Śiva was pleased, then he wanted to take him . . . give him some benediction. So, "What do you want?" So he said: "Give me the best thing, so I shall be the greatest of all." That he said: "Oh, I haven't got such thing, but if you want, you go to Sanatāna Goswāmī." "Where is Sanatāna Gosvāmī?" "Vṛndāvana."
So when he went there, so he had a touchstone. The touchstone was kept with the garbage. And he asked him, "All right, you take that. You are poor man. You take the stone, and if you touch this stone with iron, it will turn into gold. You take this. Find out in that garbage." So he took it and went away.
So on the street he began to think that, "Lord Śiva advised me that 'He has the best thing. You go there.' But he has given me this stone—it is very nice—but why did he keep it with the garbage? He has not delivered me the best thing." So he returned back. So when he returned back, then Sanatāna Goswāmī . . . he said: "Sir, I . . . I . . . this is very nice, but I don't think this is the best thing, because Lord Śiva said me that you have the best thing. If it is the best thing, why did you keep it with the garbage?"
So Sanatāna Goswāmī smiled and said: "Yes, it is not the best thing, but for you it was the best thing. You want more than this, more valuable?" "Yes, sir. For that purpose I came." "Then take this stone and throw in the Yamunā." So he threw it and, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." You see? Those who are actually attached, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170), for them it is equally valuable. Not for ordinary men.
So we cannot jump to the highest position. That is not possible. Therefore we have to go abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ. This process is recommended. Kṛṣṇa says, and Kṛṣṇa says also this. So actually, Kṛṣṇa says ultimately, sarva-guhyatamam, "The most confidential knowledge I am giving you: sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). This is the most confidential."
So, so long we are not able to come to the platform of thinking the gold and the stone on the equal value, we have to follow these rules and regulation. But that is the highest consideration. Just like Sanatāna Goswāmī, he didn't care for this touchstone. Not for the ordinary man. The ordinary man cannot make that all of a sudden; therefore it is not for him.
So what was the purpose of saying that Gītā says sama-loṣṭrāśma-kāñcanaḥ (BG 6.8)? Why did you raise this question? What is the purpose? We cannot raise, ordinary man, but why did you raise this question? What is the purpose?
Guest: I think this is practical for a householder.
Prabhupāda: But I don't think . . . then where is the difference? Therefore, household luxury is allowed up to fiftieth year in order to learn, pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. That is Vedic system. Not to remain householder until you are fired, you see, or you are taken by death. Just like our big leaders: they won't give up their householder's life unless he is fired to death, or death takes him. That is not very good proposition. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that this householder life means it is a concession for sense gratification. That's all.
But our position is that we should not continue sense gratification for all the life. The sense gratification process is going on by the hogs and dogs throughout the whole life, but we should not be like hogs and dogs. We should cease at a certain time. Pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. So far; no more. That should be our motive. Not that continue. That . . . that is Vedic way of life, pravṛttiṁ-nivṛtti. So long pravṛtti, attraction for household life, and next nivṛtti: "Now I shall be detached." But the asuras, as it is said, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janāḥ (BG 16.7). And if you continue simply pravṛtti-mārga, then you'll remain asura; you don't become deva.
The whole process, Vedic system, is even if we are asuras, gradually by practice, by good association, by following the principles of śāstra, we can become deva. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, actually we're doing that. These boys, they are so . . . according to our śāstra, they are born in asura families, I say, (laughs) but they are coming deva. And they have become devas.
So that is not impossible. It doesn't matter, janmana jāyate śūdraḥ saṅskarād bhaved dvijaḥ. Anyone can be born of lowborn, śūdra-born, or lower than śūdra born, but by this process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca pāpā (SB 2.4.18)—more than, still lower born—śudhyanti prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. That is the wonderful, I mean to say, power of the Supreme Lord.
So we are trying to bring everyone—Hindus, Muslims, or mlecchas, Yavanas, Kirāta, Hūṇa, Āndhras—anyone come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no limitation. We don't say, "No. Because you are born in this family, you cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Everyone can do. Just like in Africa they are also taking. They are becoming Vaiṣṇava. So this is our main business. This is the business of every Indian.