Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, svarūpa-siddhi. So we can mention this as also rascaldom.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? Cheaters there are. If you want to be cheated, who can stop you? He has made guru without asking his guru. He submits to others. Then how we can save him?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that do to his relationship with his own spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How does this affect his relationship with his . . .?
Prabhupāda: They don't care for his own spiritual master.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But what . . .? That means their relationship is spoiled.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guror avajñā, aparādha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Aparādha.
Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised, "Save yourself from aparādha." Some aparādha, and they are going away, just like Nitāi. Guror avajñā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's called the elephant offense?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Vaiṣṇava-aparādha. The weak and the fools, they will be victimized. What can be done? Tīrtha-guru, the pāṇḍā is accepted tīrtha-guru . . . that . . . but he takes to Jagannātha temple and other holy places, gives him instruction about the holy places and so on, so on—shelter, food, in this way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. There is such a thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am unknown, so he helps me in every respect. So Vaiṣṇava accepts everyone as guru—śikṣā-guru, dīkṣā-guru, then tīrtha-guru. This is no harm. But what is this rascal, "No, no, you cannot sit down here. You take the flag and pay me hundred rupees"? If you are so rascal, who can save you?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tīrtha-goru.
Prabhupāda: Tīrtha-goru, that is called. That risk is there because in India there are so many places, holy places. If you are not expert, you'll be victimized.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this svarūpa-siddhi?
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi, that is bogus. Svarūpa-siddhi is not that you do all nonsense things and svarūpa-siddhi. Svarūpa-siddhi means when he is actually liberated, he understands what is his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is svarūpa-siddhi. Sākhya . . . so that is far away. Unless . . . if he's such a fool, then where is svarūpa-siddhi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that realization doesn't come by some initiation from some bābājī.
Prabhupāda: That automatically comes when there . . . he is liberated, not before. So the bābājīs give this mantra for svarūpa-siddhi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man, he has a book now of these . . . this man from Purī, Jagannātha Purī. He has a . . . he collects letters from each one of them, and he keeps them in a book, and he shows . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, that "They have given me . . ."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many disciples.
Prabhupāda: The Vṛndāvana also they do. These things are there, their business. And they smoke gāñ . . . opium, gāñjā. Pān they are chewing; fish. "Tīrtha-guru." In Vṛndāvana the jāta-guru, caste gosvāmī, they do like that. He'll not touch his water even, and still, he is disciple.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but that . . . this is such a contradiction, that the man gives someone . . . makes someone his disciple, but he will not take him.
Prabhupāda: He'll not take his food, he'll not touch his water, and still, he's guru. That's all. In Vṛndāvana it is going on, large. So many visitors come. They are victimized. They have got their step, in that way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, right. The devotees should understand also that any money that's given to these persons, the Deity will never see this money.
Prabhupāda: Cheating is going on. You have to be careful. Otherwise very risky. Vipralipsa. One of the qualification of conditioned souls is to cheat others and be cheated. Vañchita vañchaka. Business cheat.