Prabhupāda: Yes, culturally we are better off. Materially, we are certainly very poor. But because we are culturally advanced, even the actual poor man, he does not feel that he is in poverty.
D. D. Desai: Yes, that is the case. That is . . . There is a basic grace in poverty.
Mrs. Desai: They are satisfied.
Prabhupāda: That is . . .
- yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
- manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
- yasmin sthite guruṇāpi
- duḥkhena na vicālyate
- (BG 6.22)
This is culture. "So long I have got money, I am very happy." No! "If there is not a single farthing, still, I'll be happy." That is real culture. That can be done That is possible when one is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to the forest to ask Kṛṣṇa to give him a very nice kingdom, but when he met Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa—He wanted to give him benediction—he said, svamin kṛtartho 'smi varaṁ na yace (CC Madhya 22.42): "Bās, no more vara." So we have got such things. Guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate (BG 6.22). Never disturbed. That is culture. And "So long I have got money in the pocket, I am very happy"—that is dog civilization. (laughter)
D. D. Desai: Even when there is no money, the man is . . . (indistinct)
Indian lady (3): (Hindi) What Swāmījī is saying is so true. Even a small kid can understand practically. Why these big people cannot understand these fundamental things?
Indian man: Because we are educated. So we have to uneducate ourselves to understand this.
Indian lady (3): Educated does not take away your real culture. So you may be educated, but then you are . . .
Prabhupāda: This is real culture, Bhagavad-gītā. I'm preaching that, Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
Indian lady (3): When Swāmījī says "The Supreme Personality tells," where is the doubt, and where is the basic questioning also?
Prabhupāda: I represent as it is, and it is being accepted. (Indians talking at once)
Indian man: Swāmījī, what is the way out now? We have understood the present position, and you have also realized. You have seen the . . . (indistinct) . . . And I don't want to take . . . I know that this ten-minutes' talk will not bring any satisfaction on either side. Now that has put me into a new thinking, that she's presently more worried about the . . .
Prabhupāda: That is a politics. You must be worried.
Indian man: Political. Political matters.
Prabhupāda: You must be worried. That is material world. So, so long you are in the material platform, you must be worried. There is no exception. And I have seen in that time, how much worried she was at that time.
Indian man: Worried.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it does not mean because she is Prime Minister, there is no worry. It is not possible.
Indian man: She's very worried.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried.
D. D. Desai: More worried. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried. That is described by Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Hiraṇyakaśipu . . . After all, they are father and son. He inquired from the son, "My dear son, what best thing you have learned?" So he said, "My dear . . ." He did not say "My dear father." He said, "The best of the asuras." He addressed his father, "The best of the asuras." (laughter) Tat sādhu manye asura varya dehinam (SB 7.5.5): "My dear the best of the asuras . . ." He was the best of the asuras. "So I think that this is best education . . ." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehināṁ sadā samudvignam asad-grahāt. (break) We have got good rooms like this, not that one has to go to the forest. Even in the Vṛndāvana we have got very good room, but nobody's coming. This is the position. After fiftieth year, voluntarily one must commit civil suicide—no family. And that is Vedic. But he will think of family up to the point of being killed by this revolver. (laughter) This is going on. Even Gandhi, what to speak of others. He presented himself very tyāgī, but unless he was killed, he did not give up his ambition: "How my sons, how my countrymen will be happy?" And what happiness you can give? You are not God. Who is taking care of them. But this is māyā. He was thinking, "If I am not there, then whatever I have got, it will be finished."
D. D. Desai: See, after Mahatmajī had got his independence . . .
Prabhupāda: What independence?
D. D. Desai: The independence was obtained, and some people asked him . . .
Prabhupāda: I asked him!