Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he, the first question was, "My dear Lord, some way or other, You have dragged me to Your lotus feet, but I am inquiring from You that ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya, 'What is my actual position? Why I am forced to suffer these three kinds of miserable life of material condition?' " Nobody's inquire, inquiring.
So therefore these discussions which are going on, that is only for how to get liberation from the four principles of material condition, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. That is called mokṣa, mokṣa, or liberation. So the . . . it is just like beating the dead horse. Nobody is interested about mokṣa. Or nobody can conceive even that there is something as mokṣa. Mokṣa means to get free from this condition of birth, death and old age. That is called mokṣa, liberation. So at the present moment modern educated persons, they do not know that there is something like mokṣa and it can be achieved, and there is process, and the whole Vedic śāstra is trying to educate us for getting mokṣa. They do not know it. So we have become so dull. Therefore, in this age, Kali-yuga especially, our conditions are described as manda, very, very bad or very, very slow. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayaḥ. And if one little interested, they will take some path which is not approved. Which is not approved. They will invent something, so many "isms."
Now, some people came, very prominent men of Bombay, some . . . they have also invented something to educate or to enlighten the residents of the forest and the mountains. No, no, what you are doing for here? But they are interested . . . not interested. It is a hobby. Nobody can be . . . there is mountain, and suppose, suppose in Africa, there are so many Africans, they are living in the . . . there is nature's law, but there is a process. This process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by which everyone can be elevated. Not by these material means. Material means, you cannot do that.