Brahmānanda: Some boys, they escaped from one country, I think Romania, and they came to our temple. They had heard about our movement, so they came to our temple. They stayed for a little while, but then they were wanting to leave. So they left, and immediately they were apprehended by the authorities in. . . I think it was in Sweden. And now they are put into camps, they cannot leave, they have to be processed, and practically they are again in jail. They have no freedom. They cannot get a job. They have no passport. It will take them years to get all the papers in order. They have to be investigated to see that they are not spies. So again they are still in the miserable condition.
Prabhupāda: So miserable condition. . . That is our conclusion, that either you remain this side or that side, it is miserable. By mental concoction you think that "This is better than that." Therefore Kṛṣṇa says frankly, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is only shelter. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). Take Kṛṣṇa's words as it is. Everything is there. He said, "This material world is duḥkhālayam; it is the place of suffering." (break) Industrialist, businessman, anyone, even ordinary man, actually everyone is suffering, but everyone is thinking, "I am happy." (break)
Brahmānanda: . . . because there is some sex pleasure, that makes it tolerable.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the, what is called, topmost ignorance, topmost ignorance, that "This is happiness." So the materialistic person means only for that happiness they are suffering so much, this way. They agree, "Yes." Just like Doctor, er, Bon Mahārāja was speaking that they are talking freely?
Brahmānanda: Oh, about homosexuality.
Prabhupāda: "Oh, yes. What is the wrong? It is pleasure." They take it as pleasure.
Brahmānanda: The priests. They're in the theological seminary, and they are priests, and they are saying that "It is pleasurable, so why not do it?"
Prabhupāda: And what is the pleasure? Stool-passing and urine-passing points are joined together, and it is pleasure. Just see their standard of pleasure. Just like the pigs: with pleasure, they eat stool. So they think it is pleasure. Standard of pleasure has gone down so low. This is Kali-yuga.