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Mature means you must give the real standard. That is mature. But if nobody of you can give the what is the real standard, then how it is mature

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"Mature means you must give the real standard. That is mature. But if nobody of you can give the what is the real standard, then how it is mature"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Maturity, you must give what is that standard God, if it is mature. Mature means you must give the real standard. That is mature. But if nobody of you can give the what is the real standard, then how it is mature? Bali-mardana Prabhu, what do you think? Mature means the final conclusion.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, either I talk or you talk. (laughs) He is wonderful. A sweetmeat is sweet. Either you give or I give, it is sweet. (break) . . . your scientist will try to understand that "Kṛṣṇa has given us the metal, Kṛṣṇa has given us the intelligence. Now we have prepared nice airship, and Kṛṣṇa has given us the sky to fly." Appreciate like that. Then your Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . .

Actually, that is the fact. If there was no sky, where would you fly your scientific advancement? And if there was no metal, how could you manufacture? If you had no intelligence, how could you do it? So everything is given by Kṛṣṇa, and you are denying Kṛṣṇa. How fool you are, just see. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply accept that "Everything is given by Kṛṣṇa. We are utilizing it." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Bali-mardana: Only when Kṛṣṇa takes it away, then they turn to Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: "Save us."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa wants that much, that you accept that, "All facilities are given by Me." That much.

Yaśomatīnandana: Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, actually that is the fact. But that is done, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Those who are rascals, they do it—they will have to do it—but after many, many births, not immediately. They'll suffer. They'll have to go through so many species of life, and one day they'll come to the understanding, "Yes, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: 'Everything is Kṛṣṇa.' " Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: "That mahātmā is very rare, very rare."

Yaśomatīnandana: When the Indians come to the temple, Prabhupāda, I tell them that mahātmā is not manufactured or rubber-stamped. Here Kṛṣṇa says what mahātmā means. I say that anybody who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is mahātmā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: And anybody who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, however great he may be in people's eyes, but he's not mahātmā.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hṛdayānanda: Durātmā.

Prabhupāda: He's a duṣkṛtina.

Hṛdayānanda: He's a demon.

Prabhupāda: Demon. Yes. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15), moghāśā mogha-karmāṇaḥ (BG 9.12).

Devotee: Everything about Kṛṣṇa is so beautiful. (break)

Prabhupāda: So what is your theory?

Prajāpati: So far you've defeated . . .

Prabhupāda: Do you think that God is under theory?

Prajāpati: God has no theory, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They think so. They concoct. They make up God.

Prabhupāda: So if you make up God, then is that God? If God is subjected to your manufacturing process, so what kind of God He is?

Prajāpati: Largely they've come to realize that, so they've turned away from even discussing God. They use their theology simply to make comments about the world situation. Theology today, they do not even discuss deity.

Hṛdayānanda: Sometimes they argue that, "God has revealed Himself within my heart, so I don't need to read any books because I have a special connection with God."

Prabhupāda: But your revelation and my revelation different. Why?

Hṛdayānanda: "Well, because God has so many different aspects that He reveals a different aspect to everyone."

Prabhupāda: That is their argument.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the standard of that aspect? Just like in the material world we see, somebody richer than other. This is also aspect of material situation. So if one is millionaire, he is better than a person who has got a few coins. So similarly, your realization of God and my realization of God, different. So I may be greater realized than you. What do you say, theologian?

Prajāpati: Well, today, Prabhupāda most of the literature is written on subjects of death of God, an eclipse of God, the fact that the people in general, it's a secular society and no one is even discussing God.

Prabhupāda: That means they have failed. After discussing, when they could not find out actually what is God, they have given up the idea. Failure.

Prajāpati: They think of it as actually a maturity. "We needed to talk about God when we were infants, and now we are advanced."

Prabhupāda: So maturity, you must give what is that standard God, if it is mature. Mature means you must give the real standard. That is mature. But if nobody of you can give the what is the real standard, then how it is mature? Bali-mardana Prabhu, what do you think? Mature means the final conclusion. Just like in scientific theory, all the scientists come into conclusion, "Yes, this is the . . ."

Bali-mardana: It's just an excuse because they don't know.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, they don't know. That's it.

Karandhara: No, they've just become mature atheists.

Prabhupāda: Mature atheists, yes.

Karandhara: Even though . . . at most they say God just means goodness or truth.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is that goodness. They have no knowledge what is the standard of goodness. Somebody is cutting the throat; he's also good. And somebody is very sober, he is also good. So what is the standard of goodness?

Karandhara: That's what they argue about, write books on. Mostly they make vague references and emotional pleas for goodness and honesty.

Prabhupāda: No, what is that honesty and what is that goodness? They must give some definition.

Prajāpati: You've summed it up very nicely, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you call them just jugglers of words.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is scientist?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, what is the standard of goodness according to your scientific view?

Hṛdayānanda: They say: "Just don't . . . if someone does what he likes and doesn't hurt anyone else, that's good."

Karandhara: They don't do that.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: "If I just do my thing for God but I don't hurt anyone, that's good."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have no definition of standard of goodness.

Hṛdayānanda: Many times they say . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. Many times they say . . . this is fact, they have no standard. But we have got definition of God. That is the difference. What is our definition?

Satsvarūpa: Supreme Controller.

Prajāpati: That person who is complete with all six opulences . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: . . . in total fullness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is God.