Prabhupāda: Yes, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And practically, you are coming from different groups—Americans, Indians, Africans—but you don't think yourself as American or Indians or African.
Desmond O'Grady: But the system insists that you do.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Desmond O'Grady: But the system expects that you do.
Bhagavān: The world as it is, the society, the materialistic society, puts these bodily demands . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. The materialistic society means duality.
Desmond O'Grady: Materialistic society means duality. But that's unavoidable. It's unavoidable.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Desmond O'Grady: Because of your physical existence . . .
Prabhupāda: Unavoidable, yes . . .
Desmond O'Grady: . . . and your personal spiritualism as well.
Prabhupāda: But it can be avoided in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like the leaf of lily. It is in the water but it does not touches the water.
Yogeśvara: Did you understand?
Desmond O'Grady: I didn't catch that last expression, no.
Bhagavān: Lily leaf.
Yogeśvara: To show how we can live in this world but still be transcendental.
Bhagavān: There's a lily leaf that sits on the water, and even though it sits on the water it doesn't get wet.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: Prabhupāda is explaining we can be in this world . . .
Desmond O'Grady: Yes. But I don't think you can explain situations in one realm, in one area, in the terminology of situations in another one, necessarily. Because if you like . . . if put this element and this element together, you get salt. Now, if human nature was the same with that element in that person and that element in that person, you should also get salt. So if you've got fifty million elements and fifty million elements, here you should get a mountain of salt.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: If you can try to understand this example.
Desmond O'Grady: Oh, I can understand.
Prabhupāda: What is that, salt? Salt example was . . . explain.
Yogeśvara: What was your point?
Desmond O'Grady: I'm saying it's difficult to argue about one kind of situation in terms of another kind of situation when the nature of the problem or the nature of the result is different, you know.
Prabhupāda: No, the kinds or varieties may remain, but sometimes the varieties help. Just like if you bring varieties of flower in a vase, it becomes very beautiful, but they are all flowers. So you have to become flowers. So even in varieties there is unity of beauty.
Desmond O'Grady: Yes, I accept that, of course.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is . . . (break)
Ātreya Ṛṣi: . . . there's a great difference between that and what we know today as Christians. They're designations. We are not talking . . .
Prabhupāda: That is another point. The thing is that Christ came to preach the message of God. So therefore, to become actually Christ conscious means God conscious.