Ātreya Ṛṣi: (to guest) So your question is whether one can enter this kingdom of God with this body.
Prabhupāda: No, that is already explained—tyaktvā dehaṁ. Giving up this body, one can enter in spiritual world. Viśate tad-anantaram—after death. By bhakti, when he's mature and he gives up this body, then he enters into the spiritual world. Tyaktvā deham, giving up this body. You cannot enter; although by devotional service the material activities of the body will stop, but you have to wait for the moment when this material body is no more existing, then with spiritual body you can enter. Tyaktvā deham, mām eti. Viśate tad-anantaram. Tad-anantaram: after death. And if you have got little pinch of material attachment, then you'll have to accept another material body. So we have come to the point that no more I want anything material. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). I am no more anyone's servant. I am neither American nor Iranian nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim, not this, not that; I'm simply servant of . . . that is my position. And so long I shall keep attachment for this designation, temporary . . . what is this "Iranian," "American," "Indian"? Say for few years. Because you have to change this body. Tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntaram. So after giving up this body, you have to accept another body. If I am in the next body I become a sparrow, then where is my conception of Iranian, Indian and Hindu, and Muslim? I am sparrow, jumping like sparrow, that's all. So these are designations, temporary designations. One has to become free from these temporary designations. Then he's liberated. That is bhakti.
- tat-paratvena nirmalam
- hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa
- sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate
- (CC Madhya 19.170)
So this life should be utilized for purifying ourself from this designation. If you keep the designation, then there is no possibility of purification. You'll get another designation. Now we are Indian or Iranian, next a sparrow or a crow or a tree or a demigod—another designation. Just like the same: the child, a baby, on the lap of the mother, a baby; and another designation, boy; another designation, young man; another designation, old man. But the spirit soul is the same. He's simply changing designation. So freedom means freedom from these all these designations. I am spirit, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am spirit soul, my business is spiritual activity. So long we want to keep designation, you'll have to accept material body and suffer.
So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to educate people how to become free from designations. Therefore we accept from any group. He might think that he is under designation . . . but our business is to make him free from the designation. We therefore welcome anyone. He may come with designation, but if he lives with us, he follows our rules and regulations, he become free from designation. And this so-called designated religious system will not help us. If we keep ourself on the designated platform—"I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Iranian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Buddhist"—then we have to continue in that designation. There is no question of freedom. That requires tapasya. That designationless status is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. And the opposite of brahma-bhūtaḥ is jīva-bhutaḥ. Jīva-bhutaḥ . . . there are so many jīvas, living entities. The dog is thinking, "I am dog." And the bird is thinking, "I am bird." The man is thinking, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." So this designation, you may be a dog designation or Hindu designation or Muslim, they are the same. There is no difference. Maybe some degrees. But one has to become designationless. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then bhakti, when one is designationless. If he wants to keep his designation, then there is no question of bhakti. The bhakti line is so nice that if you take to bhakti line, automatically you'll be designationless.
Prabhupāda: Now you have to decide whether you want to keep designation or become free from designation.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, thank you very much.
(guests leave) (break)
Pradyumna: . . . activity, but he still has designation and he comes to the temple and he chants, but he still thinks . . .
Prabhupāda: That is an attempt to become designationless. But one has to become free from designation. The same example: If the rod is put in the fire, it is becoming warm, warmer, warmer, and when it is red hot it is no more rod, it is fire. So beginning of life, neophyte stage, is the beginning. When he actually becomes advanced in devotional service, that is designationless.
Pradyumna: But we still call that, when a person first comes and he still has that designation stage, but we still call that bhakti?
Prabhupāda: No, he's on the platform. Just like the same example. The iron rod is put in the fire. So it is fiery condition. Similarly, one who has given to devotional service, he is in the designationless condition, but it requires time to make the iron rod exactly fire.