Śyāmasundara: Bentham says it is better to be a satisfied hog than an unsatisfied man.
Prabhupāda: Well, hog is not satisfied. That is another rascaldom. (laughter) If hog would have been satisfied then he would have remained in one place, but he's searching after happiness whole day and night. Whole day and night. Nobody can be satisfied possessing a material body. That is not possible. (indistinct) Suppose you have made some arrangement according to your (indistinct), "Now I shall enjoy." But you will not be allowed to enjoy. Death will take away. You are thinking that "Now I will be happy." All right, to your standard it is happiness, but death will come, "No, please get out." Sukhena lagiya (Bengali). You construct a very nice house and next day it was set fire and finished. So you have made arrangement for fire brigade always running on the street. That is means you want to enjoy happiness without any disturbance. So happiness means, which is eternally possible. That is happiness. And we are trying to give people that happiness which will never be exhausted. That is our objective of happiness.
Śyāmasundara: He sees this happiness in a communal aspect. It must be for the greatest number. So he advocates a democracy where everyone is given unlimited individual freedom.
Prabhupāda: That is also another nonsense. In democracy nobody is happy. The so-called democracy does not give anyone any happiness. Otherwise in America, the greatest democratic country, why there are so many unhappy people? That also another nonsense. It is not possible.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the interest of the community would be the sum of the interests of the individuals in the community.
Prabhupāda: That is a compromise. That is not happiness, that "You don't harm me, I don't harm you, and we remain happy." That does not mean you are happy, I am happy. These are simply speculate.
Śyāmasundara: He says we can determine what is happiness for the whole by examining what is happy for the individual.
Prabhupāda: Happiness, happiness is... What is happiness, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Happiness means absence of distress. That is happiness. So Bhagavad-gītā recommends that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). You may think that you are very happy but this is not happiness. You have to see to your distressed condition because you have to take birth, you have to die, you have to suffer diseases and you have to suffer, janma-mṛtyu-jarā, old age. So where is your happiness. If the distresses are present, then where is your happiness? This is another ignorance. This is a... Nobody wants to die but death is there. Then where is your happiness? Nobody wants to become old but the old age is there. You must become old. Then where is your happiness? Nobody wants diseases but disease is there. You cannot avoid it. Then where is your happiness? This is less intelligence. That actually you are not in happiness but by your so-called philosophizing theories, you are trying to be happy, means another illusion and we take it as happiness. Actually it is not happiness. Where is your happiness?
Śyāmasundara: He has seven measurements for happiness. He calls it the hedonistic calculus, how to evaluate happiness according to seven principles. One is intensity, how intense is the pleasure in question? Two, duration, how long can a certain pleasure be expected to last? Three, certainty, how much can we depend upon a certain experience to produce the expected pleasure? Four, remoteness, how immediate or remote is the anticipated pleasure? Five, fecundity, how many future pleasures will result and will each pleasure terminate in pain? Six, purity, how free is the pleasure from painful elements? Seven, extent, how many other persons can share the pleasure?
Prabhupāda: This is a very nice definition. We accept it, this standard, but if you put material happiness and test by this standard, there is no happiness. There is no happiness. Therefore the conclusion should be, if we test with this acid test of happiness, it is impossible to get happiness in the material world. There is no question of happiness. These testing points are nice but as soon as we put any kind of happiness to this test, you will find it is failed. Take any standard (of] happiness, it will, neither of this test will be there. So the conclusion should be there is no happiness in the material world. These tests are applicable in the spiritual world.