Guest (1): The idea has been there for thousands of years, but the question is, until this idea is accepted and put into practice the way you said, what is to be done in the interim period? Because lot of people are dying in misery and...
Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that...
Guest (1):. You see. What is the solution?
Prabhupāda: The solution is that... As soon as there is problem and you want solution... Suppose there is some problem in legal affairs. So you go to lawyer. When there is problems of your health, you go to the physician. Similarly, our Vedic instruction is for solution of this all chaotic condition, one should... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigaccet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). You have to approach persons who can make the solution. So that is, that is the injunction, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigaccet. Who is guru? Guru means śrotriyam, who knows all the Vedic literature, the information. Śrotriyam. And brahma-niṣṭham. Brahma-niṣṭham means completely God conscious. These are two qualifications. Those who are claiming that "I am God," cheating people, they are not gurus. Guru means he's always... Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya **. That is the definition of guru. Guru is accepted as good as God, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ, in all Vedic literature, tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, and those who are learned, advanced, they accept it. But what is the position of guru? Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "Guru is the most confidential servant of God." That is his position. So people do not come to us, but we are going, canvassing. This is the position. Solution is there, but they do not come to us for solution. We are going door to door, all over the world, that "Here is the solution, sir. Here is the solution." But if they do not take, what can I do? This is our position. The solution is there. And we are canvassing that "Please take this solution." But they'll not take it. They'll not hear us. They'll hold big, big conference and talk all nonsense, and that's all. This is their business. And make the things more complicated. That's all.
Guest (1): Yes. Do you have any suggestions for...?
Prabhupāda: Suggestion is already I have given, that utilize this land for cultivation. I have seen so much land vacant. In Austria, Australia. Eh? Yes, Australia, and special... In U.S.A. also, there are so much land vacant. They're not utilizing... Whatever production, they... Sometimes they throw it in the water. And, I, I have heard in this Geneva, that there was excess of milk production. Therefore they want to kill twenty-thousand cows to reduce the milk production. This is their brain. Actually, there is no brain. So they, for brain, they should come to these śāstras. They should take guidance. Produce. Produce, utilize. But they'll not utilize. Rather, the limited number of people... At least in India, all the villagers, they have been drawn in the city for producing bolts and nuts. Now eat bolts and nuts. So, so Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi's program was that, village organization. And our big Pandit topsy-turvied everything. So Gandhi's program was very nice, to organize a... (break) ...and produce your own food. If you work only three months, you get the whole year's provision. Whole year's provision. The balance time, you save. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our movement. And be spiritually advanced. Be human being. Otherwise, it is risky. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). After all, we have to change this body; however big plan we may make, we have to give up this plan, and we have to change this body. But there is no guarantee what kind of body we are going to get. Suppose I, this time, this life, I am very busy for constructing a big skyscraper building, and next time, next life, if I get the body of a cat or dog, so I'll have to live in that house because I have got attraction as a cat and dog, and who will care for me? So these are the facts. Because nobody can change the nature's law. Nature's law is exactly like infectious disease. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). They do not even believe that there is life after death. I talked, in Moscow, a big professor, Kotovsky. He said, "Swamijī, after death there is nothing." You... He's a big professor. He has no knowledge of the soul. And he's a big professor. Just see. This is going on.
So as far as possible... Now, as gradually this godless civilization will go on—that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata—there will be problems. Anāvṛṣṭi. Anāvṛṣṭi: there will be no rain. And durbhikṣa. As there will be anāvṛṣṭi, no sufficient rain, there will be no sufficient production. Actually, these things are already begun. Anāvṛṣṭi. And on the other side, taxation, the government taxation. In this way, people will be so much disturbed that they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇāṁ gacchanti giri-kānanam. They will be so much harassed because there will be no... There will be scarcity of rainfall, there will be scarcity of food, and there will be taxation. Then how one can keep the brain equilibrium? He will be mad. So unless we take the instruction of the śāstras... Immediately, we should take this instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavam, yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Therefore we have introduced this Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. This is yajña. In the Kali-yuga, this yajña is possible. So if all over the world... Or make an experiment in some portion. Just go. Just like we are making samples in West Virginia. They are self-sufficient. And the saved time is being utilized for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the remedy. But they'll not take this remedy. They have got their own remedy. So a few men may be happy, so-called happy. The other day, I saw in Calcutta Mr. Kanunga. He's the son of late governor of Gujarat. So he said... He's the manager of that coal distribution, government... So he said that "Now, being government concerned, the laborers, they're not working. They're sitting idly. So we have to increase the price. Cost is..." So this is the problem. People, being godless, they are dishonest, they are not working honestly and so many things. The only remedy is that people should be taught to become God conscious. And this method is very simple: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva... (CC Adi 17.21). And samples are there, these European and American boys. They were addicted to so many bad habits. Now they are... Just see how sober they are, and they're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So everything is possible, provided you people take our instruction. Otherwise, there is no other remedy. What can be done? The remedy's there. The medicine is also there. But if you don't take the medicine, how the disease will be cured?
Guest (2) (Indian man): I would ask the respected swamiji, you referred to the departure of the villagers to the city and getting in that city life and the villagers(?) become factory and all workers the evils which follow. And you suggested as a solution that if you live in the villages and work only for three months, then you'll have food to eat. But I'd like to point out that there is such a vast amount of unemployment in our villages in India. The vast populations are there doomed,(?) and despite all these settlements, (indistinct) are not able to make enough food because they don't own the land and they are not... They are unemployed. And that's why they go into the cities. It is not necessarily the good life in the city which attracts them, but they don't own the land. The land is owned by other people, and they are not free to live in the village as free men and grow enough food for them. Now this is a question of the means of owning of the means of production. And we still have the zamindar system. We still have the system, and the rich people are exploiting. They do. Unless there is some kind of a revolution by which you can curb the power of the landlord, how can you be for land distribution(?) of the village, of those who live in the village, and not go to city to pull a rickshaw or do other labor to...?
Prabhupāda: (aside:) You can come in. Thing is that it is the government's duty to see that nobody's unemployed. That is good government. That is the Vedic system. The society was divided into four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And it was the duty of the government or the king to see the brāhmaṇa is doing brāhmaṇa's duty, and the kṣatriya's duty, uh, kṣatriya... His duty is the kṣatriya's duty. Similarly, vaiśya... So it is the government's duty to see that why people are unemployed. Then the question will be solved.