Prabhupāda: . . . is the form where the animal can take education and become a human being.
Dr. Patel: Now these human beings, they get educated from animals.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not education. This jadāvidya, material education, is no education. It doesn't require any education. This education for eating, sleeping education, that is not education, that is cats and dogs, they also know how to do it without education. Real education is brahma-vidyā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā—this is education. So that is now given up throughout the whole world. Nobody is interested in Brahman; they are simply interested in sense gratification.
Dr. Patel: Because I think, sir, the method of education the world over is absolutely different from what . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not education. The education for eating, sleeping, that is not education.
Dr. Patel: The way we were educating, our forefathers are educating their children, by this method of sending them to a guru in a āśrama . . .
Prabhupāda: That is real education.
Dr. Patel: And then they are prepared right from the brahmacārī āśrama for the highest goal, till he becomes a sannyāsī. Here he, he's neither this nor that.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no education. Real education is not there. Just like Cānakya Paṇḍita, he was not a spiritual man, but he was a prime minister. Still, he gave the standard of becoming educated. He said:
- mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
- para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
- ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu
- yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ
Here is paṇḍita. What is he? Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: he sees every woman as mother, except his own wife. And para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: and others' property, possessions, just like garbage.
Dr. Patel: Stone.
Prabhupāda: And atmavat-sarva bhūteṣu: and feeling for everyone as he is feeling the pains and pleasures. If one has attained this stage, then he is paṇḍita. He never says these degrees. No.
Dr. Patel: These degrees are artifacts.
Prabhupāda: That is upādhi. Education is to become upādhi-less. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). But they are increasing upādhis. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: People think so far this country is concerned that education means giving the knowledge of how to read and write. I think it is the knowledge and not the education. Education is something different, that trains up your mind how to think, how to, I mean, separate grain from the chaff.
Prabhupāda: Education means . . . (indistinct) . . . athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is education.
Dr. Patel: No, but I mean to say, you must know how to separate the grain from the chaff. That is the real idea. We are not training our boys. We are not . . .
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā begins education, instruction. Immediately He puts forward that you are not this body. That is the beginning of education. Where is such education? Everyone is . . . "You are this body." "You are Indian," "You are American," "You are Hindu," "You are Muslim." Where is education? Bhagavad-gītā says you are not this body. That is the beginning of education. And now education means be nationalist. Drive away and bark somebody. . .
Dr. Patel: Passport band kar . . . (Stop issuing passports . . .)
Prabhupāda: No, why passport? Even in our country, Mahatma Gandhi was also infected, "Quit India. Quit India."
Dr. Patel: No, he did not mean quit India. He meant "You quit your matter of ruling." I mean, actually. . .
Prabhupāda: It was the exact word, "Quit India."
Dr. Patel: You know it more than me, sir, that in 1929 he told Britishers that, "You rule India on the basis of they are ruling Canada." So he offered to give them ultimatum. Britishers did not know real stuff of India, otherwise they would have acted better.
Prabhupāda: That's not . . . as soon as you think, "He is my enemy and he is my friend," then there is no education.
Dr. Patel: That's it.
Prabhupāda: This is standard of education. Ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. That is education. Sama darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva (BG 5.18). That is education. That is paṇḍita. Again Kṛṣṇa says, nanu śocantipaṇḍitāḥ. Nanu śocantipaṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). "Ah, you are rascal." It is not the business of the paṇḍita to think like that. He never thought that the Kauravas were the enemy. No. That is not the fact. It is duty to fight the just cause. That was His instruction.