Prabhupāda: Yes. We wanted to enjoy. We wanted to enjoy. God has given full freedom to enjoy, but this enjoyment is not perfect. Therefore God comes. He says, "Now you have enjoyed, but you have not enjoyed—you have simply suffered. Therefore please come back again." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we don't experience, we may not know that we are suffering.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have got little freedom. Therefore this freedom is given, "All right." So by freedom, sometimes we are becoming Lord Brahmā and sometimes the germ in the stool. This is going on. Otherwise, why there are so many different types of living entities? That freedom is acting under three modes: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. And when they are multiplied, three into three equals to nine, nine into . . . eighty-one, therefore 8,400,000 species. They experience everything. That is evolution, coming down, again going up, coming down again. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So when they become exasperated, "No more," they want to become merging into the Supreme.
When they are fatigued. After being karmī, then jñānī, "This is not good. What is actually our aim of life, let us search out." But because they make research in their teeny brain, they come to the conclusion voidism and impersonalism that, "Make it zero, this botheration." That is also imperfect. So when they come to Bhagavān and engage himself in the service, then it is perfect. Original.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want things by experimental knowledge, and when they fail it, they say it is nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, (laughs) that is voidism. First of all they try to enjoy. When they fail . . . the jackal in the orchard first of all tried to get the grapes, jumping, jumping, jumping. When he could not get, then he say: "It is sour. Don't require." (laughter) They will say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This is all false. Let us go to Brahman." This is their philosophy. First of all they try as karmī "brmmmmmmm". (laughter)
When all these "brm-brm-brm", life after life, when he finds that there is nothing, "Oh, it is all false. Grapes are sour." Jackal jumping. There is need of God. You can write article.
Prajāpati: Need of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is need, absolute need.
Prajāpati: And need to trust in God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Exactly like that. A child needs parents and absolute surrender to parent. That is natural.
Prajāpati: He needs parents to be born at all. He need parents that he can rely on.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that he may grow. That Upendra's wife and child, the child is so restless, not for a single moment. And the mother has to take care, "No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no." She requires a mother to take care.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the child is automatically taken care of by the parents.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but he does not know. Child is foolish. He does not know. Similarly, everything is taken care by God. He is supplying food, He is supplying seasons, He is supplying lights—everything I require. But we are so rascals, we are denying Him. You see?
Karandhara: Well, they say there is discrepancies in that supply. Some people starve to death and freeze to death.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not discrepancy. Just like a mother, when the child is diseased, "Ah, don't take. You cannot take. You must starve." If he thinks it is discrepancy, that is his foolishness. That is foolishness.
Karandhara: Well, just like if a big tornado comes and kills a thousand people . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, because on account of their sins. Because they do not know. Why government hangs one person? Is there government discrepancy? When government says, the judge says: "This man must be hanged," is it discrepancy? It is justice.
Karandhara: Well, just like that one Indian chemist Svarūpa Dāmodara brought. He said that philosophy is killing India. People just sit by and watch each other die instead of trying to help each other.
Prabhupāda: No, that he is rascal. No Indian is dying. We are going three times, four times India. Who is dying? Everyone is dying natural death. This is all propaganda, to make their position secure. That's all. I have never seen anyone dying for starvation. I have pointed out so many times that fifty years ago this class of men lying on the footpath . . . now the food grains have risen price fifty times. Still he is living. Still he is living. But he has to live in that condition—although he must have increased his income, otherwise how he is purchasing foodstuff, fifty times? But in spite of his increasing income, he must live like that. Apart from India, why, in your country or in Europe, so many hippies are lying? Why? They have no want.
Karandhara: But not as many.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you have not seen Amsterdam. Full, one big park, hundreds and thousand hippies are lying on this ground. Hundreds and thousands. You have been in Amsterdam? I have seen it personally.