Prabhupāda: Now, at the present moment, religion is being sacrificed. So it is animal society. The other day, the gentleman was repeating, "Then we are animals." I said that: "You are not only animals. There are other animals. You are Western animals, there are Eastern animals." They're all animals! We can challenge any scientist, any philosopher. Because they're godless, there is no religion, they're all animals. This is our declaration: animals. We don't take as human being. They're simply animals. Let them prove that they are not animals. Let them come here and prove that they're not animals. Mmm.
Pradyumna: "In the lower stages of human civilization, there is always competition to lord it over the material nature . . ."
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That is going on. The great two wars began from Europe simply on this basis, the German and Englishmen. The Englishmen, by their colonization, they made the whole world red in the map: Africa and Asia, India and America, Canada. And the Germans thought, "So this shopkeepers' nation . . ."
Hitler used to say "shopkeepers' nation." "How they have occupied the whole world, and we are so intelligent? We are manufacturing so many things. We have no market to sell." That is the cause of the two great wars. This is a fact. Anyone, any politician, any gentleman knows what was the cause. The cause was Germany is always envious of England. Why this enviousness? Because England wants to lord it over, send Lord Clive to India to exploit. And the German wants that "We have got so many things manufactured. We cannot sell."
That is the cause of war: lord it over. Everyone is trying to lord it over. The whole economic situation. Everyone is trying to become "the lord of all I survey." Yes. "In the lower stage of human civilization, there is always competition to lord it over the material nature . . ." That is the lowest stage of human civilization. But that is passing on as the highest stage of . . .
Anyone who has developed how to exploit the resources of nature, that nation is called to be very highly civilized, or advanced. But that is the lowest stage of civilization. Everyone is trying to make economic development by exploiting the world—digging the earth, the mines, the . . . this is lowest stage, just like animal civilization.
Next.
Pradyumna: "Driven by such consciousness, man turns to religion."
Prabhupāda: Hmm? No, no.
Pradyumna: ". . . there is always competition to lord it over the material nature, or, in other words, there is a continuous rivalry to satisfy the senses."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The basic principle is to satisfy the senses. Sense gratification is there. There must be. We have got senses; that must be satisfied. But that sense gratification should be based on religion. Religion. Dharma, artha. Artha. The sense gratification means economic development.
Without economic development, we cannot enjoy our senses, but everything should be based on religion. That is human civilization. Without religion, simply gratifying the senses or so-called economic development, that is animal civilization.