Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it's not possible. So I also spoke in an Indian school in Bombay. There are about some three hundred students, plus professors. We even had a short kīrtana, Girirāja and about four five devotees, selling little books outside. So there was... They wanted us start with a kīrtana. So we started Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then they themselves started. The students started leading kīrtana. And I spoke on the... They all saw all the nice equipment...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. This propensity is there already. We are simply awakening. That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I found that in India, though, there are some people like that, but they are not as arrogant as... They are a little...
Prabhupāda: Because background is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sukṛtina. Sukṛtina. They're not so sinful. In India they're not so sinful as the Western. Sukṛtina. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. And in the Western countries they are simply acting sinfully. Now Kīrtanānanda was prosecuted because he is not killing cows.
Devotee: He's not what?
Hari-śauri: Not killing his cows.
Brahmānanda: By having them grow old, they were saying that "This is cruelty. You should kill them."
Prabhupāda: This is their civilization, that "You are not killing? You are cruel." (laughs) Just see. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." That is cruel. How can you pull on this civilization? But this is their religion. So what kind of persons they are?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's some misunderstanding. When I came from New York, there was one Christian minister. He was going to Bangalore, India, but I was all the way from New York to Delhi with him. We sat together side by side, and since he was minister, he was interested in what I was doing, so we started talking about philosophy and the science of the self. So I asked that "Mostly we are told that in Christianity, many people don't believe that there is soul in animals." He said same thing, and he was a minister. In animals, plants...
Prabhupāda: Big animal. He's a big animal. Animals... He is also animal but big animal. That is what he... That I have already said, small animals. Śva-viḍ... What is that? viḍ-varā... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's a puruṣa. He's a very exalted person, but he's a paśu, animal, because he does not know anything about spiritual life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If people know some of these very basic principle of life, that all the living entities like animals and these things, they are all...
Prabhupāda: Superior than the matter. That how you can deny it? Kṛṣṇa says clearly, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāṁ, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). They cannot... They're so dull, they cannot understand it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their heads are filled with dung.
Prabhupāda: Two things are there already. Any layman can understand. A person living—a person dead. So why he is dead? Something is missing. So that missing element is important or this body is important? These rascals cannot understand even, so dull brain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A common farmer here can understand that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These two things are there: living force and the body. The body is moving because the living force is there. So which one is important, the body or the living force? Without living force, the same body, the same hand, legs, everything, +face, everything is there. Kick on his face—no response. And when he is living, touch his hair—"Oh, who are you? Why you are touching me?" (laughter) So which is important? The consciousness is important or this body? Such a rascal, they cannot understand it. And we have to deal with this civilization, mūḍha, rascals.