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Workers (Conversations 1968 - 1974)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sannyā... Yes, brahmacārī: b-r-a-h-m-a-c-h-a-r-y, this is brahmacārī. Then gṛhastha: g-r-i-h-a-s-t-h-a, gṛhastha. H-a-s-t-h-a, gṛhastha. G-r-i-h-a-s-t-h-a. Is that clear? Gṛhastha. Then vānaprastha: v-a-n-a-p-r-a-s-t-h-a, vānaprastha. Then sannyāsī: s-n-n-y-a-s-i, sannyāsī. Four divisions. These four divisions, and there are other four orders of social system. That is according to work, division according to work and quality. Just like the brāhmaṇas, b-r-a-h-m-a-i-n-s, brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of the society. The kṣatriyas, k-s-h-a-t-r-y-a-s, kṣatriyas. Kṣatriyas means persons who are interested in politics, in the management of the country, political affairs. They are called kṣatriyas. Similarly, there is the vaiśyas, v-a-i-s-y-a-s. Vaiśyas means the mercantile, productive class. Those who are engaged in producing grains or trade, milk, and in industry. Of course, industry, artisans, they are called, artists, śūdras. Anyway, any person engaged in producing for the needs of the society, they are called vaiśyas. And the worker class is called śūdra. So according to Vedic system, these are eight divisions. Unless the human society is divided into these eight divisions in terms of material and spiritual progress of life, that is not accepted as human society.

Room Conversation -- March 25, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: There was one clergyman lecturing in a Sheffield coal-mine that, "If you don't worship Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell." So first of all one man asked him... First of all, the clergyman inquired, "Do you know Jesus Christ?" So they were silent. So one of them inquired, "What is his number?" They thought that "Jesus Christ must be one of us," I mean to say, workers in the mine. So he must have got a number. "So what is his number?" Then the clergyman could understand that "To whom I am speaking." So then he explained, "Oh, Jesus Christ is not one of you. He is son of God. He has come to deliver you. If you don't worship Him, then you will go to hell." Then one of them said, "What is hell?" Then he described, "It is very dark, moist, and so on." So they were silent, because they work in the mine. (laughter) They were silent. "What is this hell? It is all right." Then the clergyman thought how to impress them. Then, after a few minutes, he said, "No. The hell is very dangerous."

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: A very nice girl. Yes. Always chanting and dancing and always jolly. (chuckling) Very nice girl. You know her? No. She has recently joined. She is good devotee, good worker, very nice. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. Anyone who comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately becomes beautiful in every respect. (Break)

Haṁsadūta: Puruṣottama.

Prabhupāda: How many rose trees Jayānanda has...

Puruṣottama: 108.

Prabhupāda: 108. So at least 108 flowers we'll have daily. Yes. So it is very nice. Our Hawaii, tulasi grows very nice.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That you select, who should be vice president.

Hayagrīva: Temple commander.

Prabhupāda: No. Because you president, you can select out of all the workers...

Hayagrīva: Not many.

Prabhupāda: ...who will be nicely representing you. That's your trust.

Hṛṣīkeśa: There will be more workers. More will come. There are more people coming all the time, aren't they?

Hayagrīva: Well, if they'll stay on a permanent basis.

Devotee: Why not? It's such a nice place.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1970, Bombay:

Haṁsadūta: "Patel Pola(?) of Chicago had observed that he was a construction worker doing a śūdra's work. It would not become necessary to allot the three lower castes to the foreign converts according to their professions. This will not be an easy task. Talking of profession reminds me of a still graver problem—that of the occupation or profession of the white sādhus. If I am not mistaken, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement would turn out legions of new white sādhus in the West whose only aim in life would be to propitiate their Lord Kṛṣṇa. They would be steeped in the bhakti-rasa and would not soil their hands with doing any work for such a mundane thing as earning a living."

Prabhupāda: They are not doing anything. Actually they are not doing anything. They are preaching only.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Varṇa, varṇāśrama. And in the Bhagavad-gītā—perhaps you have read Bhagavad-gītā—there is also the statement, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ (BG 4.13). It is... This system is created originally by Viṣṇu. So as everything is creation of the Supreme, they cannot be changed. That is a prevalent everywhere, that a... Sun. Sun is creation of the Supreme. So sunshine is here in America, in Russia, in India—everywhere. Similarly, this varṇāśrama system is prevalent everywhere in some form or other. Just like the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of men, brain, brain of the society. Then the kṣatriyas, the administrator class. Then the vaiśyas, the productive class, and the śūdras, the worker class. These four classes of men are everywhere present in different names. And because it is creation by the original creator, so it is prevalent everywhere, varṇāśrama-dharma. (break) So have you seen this little, how we are translating this? You can see little. Original śloka, its transliteration, then its English equivalent, then translation, then purport, each and every verse is being done like that, whole Bhāgavatam Purāṇa.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: According to so many... You have just told that in any society there are four divisions, but the case is not so easy to distinguish. For instance, one can group, one can group, group together, different social classes and professional groups into four divisions in any society. There's no difficulty. Only difficulty, for instance, in socialist society of our country and a socialist society how can you distinguish productive group and workers?

Prabhupāda: Just like you belong to the intelligent class of men.

Prof. Kotovsky: Intelligent, yes, so...

Prabhupāda: So this is a division.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, intelligent class, for instance, brāhmaṇas, if you can put together also with intelligentsia under the brāhmaṇas...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriya.

Prof. Kotovsky: From top to... From top to collective farm, for instance, is kṣatriyas. But who would be here vaiśya and who śūdra? That is the difficulty because all others will workers, workers, anywhere, factory workers, collective farm workers and so on. So from this point of view...

Prabhupāda: From this point of view...

Prof. Kotovsky: ...there is a great distinction, in my opinion, between socialist society and all societies preceding socialist because in a modern western society you can group all social professions, classes, for instance, practically, very conditionally, you know, at least you can, the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, kṣatriyas... Excuse me... Then this vaiśya, this productive class, is owners...

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: And the śūdras are workers, menial workers. But here you have no vaiśyas from this point of view because you have administrative staff... In fact, there is administrative staff. You can call them kṣatriyas. And then śūdras, that's workers themselves. But not this intermediate class.

Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will be, not be properly, I mean to say, going on, smoothly going on. There will be some disturbance.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no canvassing.

Prof. Kotovsky: No, yes. That's what I thought. But what I am most interested in... For instance, not a student but a young worker or a young son of a farmer, he would abstain from his old life and he would be initiated and join your community into a given center. How he would entertain himself?

Prabhupāda: The thing is... I have alre...

Prof. Kotovsky: In the sorts of day to day life...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: Material life...

Prabhupāda: Now, material life, it is...

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So two sides we are trying, to define the natural division of human society. The intelligent class, the administrator class, the productive class, and the worker class. There is natural division. You cannot say that everywhere simply there are intelligent class of men. No. Because we are infected with the three kinds of the material modes. You cannot expect all men are on the same level. That is not possible. Someone is in the modes of goodness, someone is in the modes of passion, someone is in the modes of ignorance, and someone is in the modes of mixture. That is the natural division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaisya, śūdra. Those who are purely in goodness, they are brāhmaṇa. Next to that, passion, kṣatriya. And next to that, vaiśya, mixture. And next to that, śūdra. And next to that, caṇḍāla.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: You cannot put a cart before a horse. That is not possible. Of course, the Communists, they are trying to do that, but they have also failed. I went to Moscow. They have got a worker class and they have got a manager class, manager class. They cannot do without it. It must be there. Someone must be their manager. So this division of the society... Just like natural division, one can study by his own body. This body has got four divisions—the head division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. All of them are important in cooperation. But the hand cannot do the work of the leg, nor the leg can do the work of the head.

Dr. Singh: But they are all four in the same body, Swamiji...

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is working.

Dr. Singh: They can be very good worker.

Prabhupāda: When your brain... Brain is the intelligent part of this body. So unless the brain works, nobody can work.

Dr. Singh: Everybody has a brain, all classes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, the intelligent class means the brain of the society. They must work. Otherwise, how others will work? Working is compulsory for everyone.

Dr. Singh: They can fight also.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: This is the problem of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that people are becoming more and more Godless. And one may think that unnecessarily we have taken this responsibility to make them God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no need to make this propaganda all over the world. But actually, the saintly persons have concern. Just like the other day I told you, Prahlāda Maharaja was concerned that these rascals for temporary so-called... (break) ...people are engaged unnecessarily to work very hard day and night, the capitalist, the worker. Big, big factory, iron factory, in so many factories, unnecessarily. So Prahlāda Maharaja was concerned. He was living, his father was a demon, in the demonic state. So this is natural. If one saintly person do not be disturbed by people's unhappiness, he is not saintly person. He is not saintly person. If he is simply satisfied that "I have got a temple, I am getting good income, let me eat and sleep." My Guru Maharaja condemned this process. He said that to earn livelihood by showing some temple and collecting money and eat and sleep, better to become a sweeper in the street and earn his livelihood instead of earning livelihood in this so-called spiritual way.

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: Not according to the grammatical rules and other rhetorical rules, but the, I mean to say, thoughts and the effects of such revolutionary literature is required. Not the grammatical. The so-called rascals, they are concerned with the grammatical. But those who are actually worker, they are concerned with the thoughts. What is the thought is there? Therefore, it is said that tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api, nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat (SB 1.5.11). If there is simply the attempt is there how to glorify the Supreme Lord, that is a fact. It doesn't matter whether it is written in correct language or incorrect language, it doesn't matter. If the whole thought is targeted to glorify the Supreme Lord, then nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat gṛṇanti gāyanti śṛṇvanti sādhavaḥ. Then those who are actually sādhu, even in spite of all these defects, because the only attempt is to glorify the Lord, then those who are sādhu, those who are devotee, they hear it. Śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti. Not only hear, they chant also the same thing. And not only chant, but gṛṇanti, they apply in their actual life. This is the Bhāgavata śloka. Is it clear now? Yes. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo (SB 1.5.11).

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: These are the remark. And now we have to establish this, that this is the only way to reach God. You have to become scholar, philosopher, worker, practical behavior. And that is the fact. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)? You have to prove it. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ: "Except surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, anything, that is simply cheating," cheating, kaitavaḥ. Cheating religion. This is challenged by God, "Cheating religion." We have to save people from the cheating type of religion, cheating type of religion, cheating type of dharma. It is so important movement. So this is very good thought of high-court judges. He has stated also, just before that, vicāra. You marked?

Devotee: Yes.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Śyāmasundara: ...1972 in Māyāpura. Conversations between Śrīla Prabhupāda and Bob, a Peace Corps worker, entitled "Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers." (break) (Devotees are singing prayers to Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva loudly over loudspeaker in background.)

Prabhupāda: ...because he knows things as they are.

Bob Cohen: (indistinct) ...knows things as they are.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bob: He hopes he knows things as they are.

Prabhupāda: No, he's supposed to know. We approach to a scientist because he's supposed to know the things right. (A loudspeaker is playing very loudly in the background.) Let them make a little soft. (break) (laughter) Great relief. (laughter)

Bob: I have felt that the loudspeakers were too loud all day.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Now, our simple philosophy is that we are spirit soul. We are eternal. You are eternal. I am eternal. Everyone is eternal. We are changing our body, transmigrating from one body to another. And that means repetition of birth and death, but we are eternal. Why we are in such botheration of repetition of birth and death? Not only that, sometimes in some species of life, may be very high position, sometimes in low position. Suppose somebody is American, and the next life, if he becomes a tree, if he becomes a dog... He may become a demigod also. There is possibility. Just like in future you may be a... (break) ...understand this movement thoroughly and take it seriously. It is for good welfare, for very good welfare. Now, in Europe, America, here also, so many frustrated young boys, they are coming to be practically of no value to the country. In America I see thousands of hippies, they are doing nothing. So what is the future of the country? If the flowers of the country, young boys, they do not take interest in anything, in administration, in industry, then what is the future? From economic point of view I have studied that America, for want of sufficient workers, they are importing goods from Japan. This is not very good sign.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Why such a big country, American country, why they should import? But they are obliged to import. They have no workers. Japan's 75% business is done in America. We are not impractical. Because there are so many workers, but they refuse... In Central Park, it is full of rubbish things always. You go. It is a garbage. Why? There is no worker. And on the other side we see so many young men. They are not working, simply idling time. So they do not tackle the real problem. The future is not very hopeful if things go on like this. So many young boys, they are doing nothing. What is the percentage of hippies now in America? A very good percent. All the school colleges. Here also in the university...

Devotee: All the university students.

Prabhupāda: They are all hippies. So what do we expect? They are taking education, and then, after taking education, they don't do anything. This is a problem. And so many illicit children, and the government has to supply them food, and the welfare, what is called? That welfare department?

Devotee: Social security, welfare.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are advertising equal facility to everyone, to the worker. The worker is still working. They are going, still walking on the street to go to the factory. So in this way the whole civilization is going on simply by bluffing. And because men are made śūdra class, they are believing. They are accepting this bluff. This is the position. Besides that, if you... Even if you are able to give everyone nice buildings and nice motor car... Already a few motor cars you have got, there is scarcity of space. From practical point of view. 99% of the population, they do not possess. Or say 50%. So already 50% men possessing motor cars, it has created problem. Where to park the motor car? How to supply petrol.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because king—the kṣatriya means royal order-they, sometimes they had to kill somebody. If somebody is criminal, "Cut off his head." So in order to become powerful in cutting head, so they had to practice hunting. Yes. This hunting was allowed to the kṣatriyas. There are four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. Four divisions means intelligent class, administrative class, mercantile class, and laborer class. So these kṣatriyas, they are royal order, giving protection to the citizens. And the brāhmaṇas giving good advice to the royal order. And the mercantile class, they work under the regulation of the royal order. And the worker class, they give simply service. (Japanese)

Dai Nippon representative: Year and a half ago, Mr. Tajima, he lose his son, twenty-eight years old.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I heard. In some accident?

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That's a thousand dollar contribution.

Devotee: Yeah. And as it grows, it will increase.

Prabhupāda: And send them a Gujarati paper, our magazine, distribution amongst their workers. That will satisfy (indistinct) sense.

Devotee: Hm. Tell that to Girirāja?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Hundred, two hundred magazines.

Prabhupāda: Not hundred. Say fifty, for distribution amongst his officers.

Devotee: Oh.

Prabhupāda: So that everyone will be satisfied.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Ah. So you can understand English then. So (Sanskrit). Duṣkṛtinaḥ means... kṛtiḥ means meritorious, very meritorious. But duṣkṛtiḥ. Whatever merit he has got... Nowadays at the present moment the civilization is so mad that everyone as human being... Any human being he has got some merit because he is not cat and dog. He's a man. As a man he has got brain, better than the cats and dogs. That's a fact. And actually they're doing so many things. Just like this picture. It is a very meritorious workmanship. So everyone can do some meritorious workmanship. But when that workmanship is diverted to, for the use of sinful activities... Just like one man is very meritorious, he's planning to form a party how to plunder. This requires merit. Without merit you cannot form a party. But the merit is being used for plundering, for harassing, for so many other sinful activities. So that is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Merit is there but the merit is being misused for sinful activities.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You cannot say that "I don't see God." How can you say? These are the directions. You are seeing that things are going on under direction. Yasyājñayā. Therefore you have to... śāstra yonitvāt. The Vedānta says, "You have to understand God through śāstra;" by the scriptures you have to understand. śāstra yonitvāt. Everything is there. The śāstra gives you direction. Therefore human being is meant to study the śāstras. The śāstras, Vedic literature, is meant for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. If you don't consult the śāstras, then you remain a cats and dogs. That's all. Why you are taking so much trouble, writing śāstra, explaining to you? So that you may come to the real platform from the platform of cats and dogs. That is our mission. That is the duty of the spiritual master. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. The spiritual master is the most beneficent friend, he is giving you direction from the śāstra. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau: "He is the real welfare worker for the human society." Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ass, the example of ass is because the ass does not know what is his interest, but works very hard. Therefore ass example is given. Ass, he carries the washerman's cloth, tons, but not a single cloth belongs to him. He is naked. And still he is working. He does not know, "Why I am working for the washerman, carrying so much load?" That sense he hasn't got. He thinks that "Washerman gives me to eat some grasses." Although grasses are all over. That is ass. That is ass. So these scientific research workers, they are asses. He does not know that "I shall live for thirty years. So what is the use of my research work?" But intelligent man will say, "Let me utilize this thirty years to prepare for my next life." That is intelligence. But they. But they have no idea of the next life. (pause) Again, Switzerland.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Vodka? What...?

Buddhist Monk (1): Vodka.

Haṁsadūta: Whiskey. Liquor.

Buddhist Monk (1): He tried whiskey. He said, "Come to vodka because vodka's whiskey here," he says, "in this country." I told him, "I don't drink that either." "What do you eat and what do you drink?!" So... He asked me, "What's the matter with you?" "There's nothing wrong with me. (laughter) I am quite healthy, and everything... I am a follower of the Buddha, and our first precept is nonviolence to all mentally conscious living beings. And that's the reason why we follow this." "Ah, you miss the steak don't you?" I said, "I miss nothing. If one wants to have vegetables prepared, there are so many ways of preparing it, healthier, and if one wants taste, it will be even more tasteful." "All right, all right. Bring him as many vegetables. And what do you drink? Beer?" I said, "No. Fruit drinks, if you have." "You order." He gave me a listing. I wanted to pay. He wouldn't allow me to pay, and he paid it. Those people are kind there. And from the time I got, went across, I could talk to anyone without any restriction. I could discuss religion with farmers, factory workers, doctors, lawyers, whom I met in the course of my visit.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā recommends that the whole society should be divided into four divisions: the brāhmaṇa, or the most intellectual persons, the kṣatriyas, the administrators, the vaiśyas, the mercantile agriculturists, and the śūdras, ordinary men, laborer or worker. Because this material world is conducted by three modes of nature, goodness, passion and ignorance, so according to the quality of the person, he should be listed in different categories. And it is the duty of the state to see that all these categories, divisions, they are working nicely.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then, by God's arrangement, by nature's arrangement, all the necessities of the living entities, they will be supplied. They will be free from all anxieties, diseases. This was practically demonstrated during the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. I, I wish to quote some passages from... during the reign of...

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is rascaldom. We have divided already four classes of men. Even in Russia... Even in Russia, I have seen, they have created two classes, the worker class, the manager class. I have seen it. Yes. So you cannot say that everyone will do the same work. That is not possible. I have given already the example, the brain, the arms, the abdomen and the leg. The leg cannot do the work of brain. Leg can cooperate with the brain, but cannot do the work of brain. This is natural position.

Yogeśvara: He asks: In our society do these four divisions also exist?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Yogeśvara: In ISKCON, are there these four divisions?

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: It is already there. He is professor, why? (laughter) That is their rascaldom. They are doing the same thing. But still they are decrying the process. Why you have become professor? You remain ordinary worker. There is no need of professor. Why he has become professor of Indology? And there is two, amongst the workers also, there are two classes, manager class, worker class. You have to divide. Without division... (break) Just like this body is not a lump of matter. There is division. Without division, the body cannot work.

Yogeśvara: So that's no excuse that there is...

Prabhupāda: That means... these rascals, they have simply imperfect knowledge. Still, they are leader. That is our protest. That why you become leader? You have got so many imperfections. Why you are cheating people? That is our protest. You have no perfect knowledge. Still, you become leader. Why? Why you are cheating men like that? Just like the professor who was speaking that by four, combination of four chemicals, life has come. And as soon as he was challenged that: "If I give you these four chemicals, whether you can produce life?"

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Pradyumna:

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
(BG 9.32)

"O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, although they be of lower birth, women, vaiśyas, merchants, as well as śūdras, or workers, can approach the supreme destination."

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In another place, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, I think Second, Second Canto... Find out this verse: kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ (SB 2.4.18).

Professor: This one?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā...

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, everyone should work. Our Vedic philosophy is that everyone must work. But there must be division of work. Just like in your body there are different parts. The head department, the arms department, the belly department, and the legs department. These are different parts. So all these departments must work for the total benefit of the body. That is our philosophy. Nobody should sit idle. But he must work according to his capacity. Brain must work for giving direction. Hand must work for giving protection. Belly must work for supplying food, energy. And leg must work for carrying the body. So similarly the society must be divided: the brain of the society, the arms of the society, the belly of the society and the legs of the society. That will make perfection. The brain will give direction That is the brāhmaṇas. The arms will give protection. That is the kṣatriya. And the belly will give energy, food, that is vaiśya. And the legs will carry the body. That is śūdra. This is... Whole society should be divided into four divisions, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas and the śūdras. And they should work cooperatively for the total benefit of the body. This is perfect life. Not that everyone should be brain. Then who will carry me? Just like in your bank, the manager is the brain. The secretaries and assistants are the hands, clerks. And ordinary worker, they are legs. Anywhere you go, you must find out these four divisions.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ugra-karmāṇaḥ kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the śūdras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore the boss is the chief man who is giving work: "You like this. You work like this. You work like this. You work like this."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I am the boss.

Prabhupāda: No, you are not boss. You are also one of the workers.

Prajāpati: Are you telling how the stomach to digest and how the hair to grow and how the...

Prabhupāda: No, you are not...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I am talking about the relationship between my, so many individual souls, the cells, and my spirit soul.

Prabhupāda: Relationship... Wherever you go, there is some relationship. That is... That inter-relationship is already there. I am walking on this sand. I have got some relationship. If the sand would have been soft, I could not walk. So the relationship is there already, intermingled. But what is the central relationship? That is wanted, to know. That is God.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, that free will is not to be given. It is already there. Rather, Kṛṣṇa says He has given free will, but His personal advice is: "I am now talking to you the most confidential words." Sarva-guhyatamam. "You stop your so-called free will. Just surrender to Me." This is the most confidential. "If you surrender to Me, that is good for you. But if you go on keeping your free will you'll not be happy." There is also free will. When you come to the Kṛṣṇa platform you serve Kṛṣṇa with free will, not that you become a stone. There is free will. Just like our devotees they are dressing Kṛṣṇa nicely, is there no free will? They are cooking for Kṛṣṇa. Is there no free will? The free will is there. The Māyāvādī philosopher says, the Buddha philosopher says, that "Stop this free will, and then you become happy." But our proposition is not to stop free will but purify free will. Purify. Not stop these eyes. Just if it is suffering from cataract, cure that cataract. Keep the eyes. And their proposition, "Get out these eyes and throw it. Then there will be no more seeing what is right and wrong." That is their proposition. Nirviśeṣa-vādī. Nirviśeṣa means no speciality, no varieties. That is nirviśeṣa. And śūnya, zero. When it is zero, then there is no question of right and wrong. So our philosophy is not that. There is no zero, and there is no varieties. We don't say. There is, but it's purified varieties. Tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Nirmalam means purified. So our process is to purify everything. We don't want to stop. That is not our proposition. They cannot find out any solution. Therefore they want to make stop: "Stop this business." Suppose a business is not going very nicely. It is going at loss. Somebody says, "Close it." But one experienced man comes: "Why should you close? All right, I shall do it properly. You'll get profit." So who is better? One, by disappointment, he says, "Close this business. There is no profit." And another man says, "No, don't close it. We shall make you profit. We shall show you profit. Just manage it properly." This is our proposition. We don't say that "Stop all these material activities." No. Just do it properly so that you get real profit and real benefit. That is our program. We don't want to make it zero, no. Why shall I make it zero? (break) ...can be taken just like there is business, but the workers, the assistants, they have no idea who is the proprietor.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everyone, these rascals, they have no idea who is the proprietor of this world. So they are doing in their nonsensical way. Therefore there is confusion. The business is not profitable. But if they accept, "No, the real proprietor is such and such gentleman, so he wants to do us like this," then the business will be profitable. Everyone is thinking that he is proprietor, so how this business will profit? This is the position. Everyone is thinking that he is the proprietor. He forgets that he is worker. He is not proprietor. That is the mistake. Therefore the business is mismanaged, and there is no profit, simply chaos. That is the position.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah. So you simply show the card, you get the goods. So to exchange, it has become very cheap. So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, "Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities." This is modern economy. So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that "I am getting money." He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. "Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods." This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor. So production is more. And when you go to purchase the products, then you have to pay again. Whatever you have earned, you have to pay everything, pay to the bank or pay to the man. Simply cheating process is going on. There is no solution.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What's the use? Why shall I think like that? Let them go to hell, and let us go back to home, back to Godhead. Why shall I waste our time? We can advise them, "Do this. You will be happy." If they do not take, then we don't bother anymore. We are not social welfare worker or political worker. We are worker for Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...in this world that people are suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let us try to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our only interest. Otherwise we have no interest in this material world. Let them do their own duty and suffer or enjoy. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu (BG 9.29). Samaḥ. Samatā. We are not social worker or political worker. We are Kṛṣṇa worker. So we give advice to them that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious and all problems will be solved." That is our duty; and to advise him, to convince him, to give him all facilities.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Guest (2): They have their own apartment. They heard, and they have seen workers. They are barking... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...big animals.

Dr. Patel: I don't think he would say that so you could... Must have just joking. He's religious, highly religious man. Yogendra Bhai is the most highly religious man in the whole group. Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean he actually said that?

Dr. Patel: Not actually, he's... (?)

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do like that.

Guest (2): I like to save the paths(?) of the temple. And that devotee's not... Up till devotee, but he was a worker, his whole time living in the temple. And I asked Gargamuni, "Your devotee is saying, 'We'll go by car. It is expensive. Because we are collecting money from the different peoples and from the public. And we must not use our money in this way.' "

Prabhupāda: Jaya. For Kṛṣṇa bhakti, yes.

Guest (2): Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Guest (2): (Bengali) (break)

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Madhudviṣa: Wouldn't that indicate that a preacher is higher than a worker?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is preaching, this is preaching. You help. Suppose you are preaching, and if I help you... Just like I'm preaching, you're helping. You are also preaching.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Also this building is preaching.

Prabhupāda: This is also preaching. So it is not that preaching means simply talking. Preaching means everything. The construction is also preaching. The designing is also preaching. Everything is... Otherwise what is the use of spending so much money if it is not preaching?

Devotee: Jaya.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah. (break) Everything that has to do with propagating Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that everyone should know... Suppose one is engaged in cooking prasādam. You should see that nice prasādam is served to the worker, quickly, so they can take prasādam, be healthy and go on preaching. So he is helping preaching by cooking. Just like you are working and the brain is also working, "Go this side, go that side, the car is coming." Brain says, the... "Leg, come this side." Everyone is working. The leg is working, the brain is working, the hand is working, the tongue is working. But the business of the tongue and business of the leg is different. The aim being, the central point being Kṛṣṇa, to help, to serve Him, then everything is work, absolute. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot understand it. They think that "Kṛṣṇa is working like ordinary man. How He can become God? It is māyā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is also māyā." Therefore we called them Māyāvādī.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone should be expert. The leaders must be expert and the worker must be expert so that they may follow the instruction of the leader. If the leader says something and the workers, "Hm, I shall consider it, later on," then how the leader will execute his leadership? Both of them should be cooperating and know that "We are all working for Kṛṣṇa." Somebody was coming back and going... Coming this side or... Our men? No.

Devotees: No. (break)

Ātreya Ṛṣi: ...woman.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There are so many... So few compared to other religions, but we make so big propaganda always...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Virginia. Virginia. Different branches in different states. And the school is in Texas, Dallas. There is immense potency of increasing this movement in America. Immense potency.

Dr. Patel: In all departments of life you can increase. Even the workers who are...

Prabhupāda: No, I say, "Let there be saṅkīrtana in factory."

Dr. Patel: That is what I say. That is what I say.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: We will start such a factory and do it, and it will be an ideal for...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't start. Already the factory is there. Go and teach them.

Dr. Patel: Where? In America?

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, that is now dwindling. The hippies are coming out. So one day it will be finished. One day it will be finished. That... It has already begun. The future hope is now becoming hippies. So who will manage this? It is already there is a problem how to maintain the industry, how to... This has become a problem. So naturally, when the, there will be all hippies, not to work, then everything collapses. The so-called prosperity will be finished. (break) Nobody is working sincerely. Here also in India, all government servants, they do not work. The manager of the government coal company said that "The workers in the mine, they are not working. Therefore we have to increase the price." So now, everything dependent on one another, so if one side there is noncooperation, the whole thing will collapse. (break) ...college they don't work. One thing is that draft board chasing all young men.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Coal Corporation of India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's the general manager. He told me that "Workers, they are not working. Therefore we have to increase price." Now, when the, it was private concern, they were managing. They were working very nicely. Now, since it has become government concern, they are not working.

Dr. Patel: Same thing in...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Dr. Patel: ...in nationalized banks.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then he is not even a human being. He is a rascal. That's all. He is not a human being. What to consider of talking...? Don't talk about him if he cannot chant sixteen rounds. He is not even a human. He is animal. (break)

Pañcadraviḍa: ...even he may be employed as factory worker or something.

Prabhupāda: Well, if you take factory workers are better than animals, that is another thing.

Nitāi: One point that you made a few years ago in Vṛndāvana was that this demoniac civilization, especially in U.S.A., keeps a man so much engaged, they make them work so hard, just to earn the simple necessities of life, that they don't have time to cultivate spiritual life.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: During your conversation with this gentleman, you mentioned that there was nowhere any sanction by God for industry or business. So does that mean that these workers in factories and industries, to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness they could not go on with their work?

Prabhupāda: No. Our recommendation is that whatever position you are, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So even the workers in the factory, they can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the difficulty? Even in factory, they take some leisure hours. So why not sit down for five minutes, ten minutes, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Where is the difficulty? Apart from the work they are doing, we are recommending, "Whatever is done is done. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be all right." Where is the wrong?

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have to be... They should not possess, so that they will work always.

Yogeśvara: Yeah, but that was exactly the situation that sparked the Communist revolution. When the workers felt themselves exploited, then they revolted.

Prabhupāda: No, workers, what is that? Exploited?

Yogeśvara: Yes, when the śūdras were seeing that, "Oh, these men, they are keeping us as slaves, and they are making us work just for our food," then they revolted.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You should keep them such nicely and friendly way, they will never think like that. They will think that you are giving him food and shelter, and you are taking care, giving them protection to their family. Then they will be happy. Then they are happy. When you give them all protection, then they will be happy. Now... Just like in Japan. The industrialists give all men. They give food. They give education. They give shelter. So they work very happily.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: The manager of a large factory comes to us and says, "Well, here is my problem. My workers are striking for higher pay and no one is satisfied So what can I do?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Yogeśvara: Well, he wants to know, "How can I apply that in my factory?"

Prabhupāda: You give us the in charge, make us in charge of the factory, we shall do it, and see how we can deal. You can do it. We shall introduce immediately kīrtana and give them prasādam. It will be solved. And give them lecture and philosophy. We can take. Let us have the charge. Then see how we can do. Or you follow our instruction. But that you will not. You want to exploit these poor fellows, and you are coming to us for solution. You first of all give up the spirit of exploiting. Then it will be solved. You have come to take our advice how to exploit them.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: So in other words the workers are unsatisfied because they see that the managers are exploiting them, but if they see the managers are giving the money to Kṛṣṇa, they will feel satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and they will also give. Kṛṣṇa becomes the proprietor. Everyone is satisfied.

Dhanañjaya: Jaya. This is varṇāśrama institution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is above varṇāśrama. It is above varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama there is give and take, but here there is no give and... Here is simply give, no take. That is above varṇāśrama.

Dhanañjaya: So the workers are giving to the devotees and the devotees are giving to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They become devotee, they will give to Kṛṣṇa. You also become devotees. Not that they become devotee and you exploit them very nicely. That is not.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: But that is not being done. Therefore I said... I go to their country. "Why in your country there is inequality? Why in your country?" That was my point. "Why you have made a class of men as manager and a class of men as worker?" Nobody wants to be worker.

Satsvarūpa: Everyone knows that Russia is just like the U.S. almost.

Prabhupāda: What is that? (loud siren)

Dhanañjaya: That's ambulance.

Nitāi: So when they talk with the peasants, they are convincing. Because the peasants don't know anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Nitāi: They cannot face anybody who knows something.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Is there any difficulty to understand? As soon as you say you become manager, that means his karma is better. Where is the difficulty to understand it? Why you appoint one man manager and one man worker? His capacity of karma is better. So where is the difficulty to understand? Better karma, better reward. It is going on.

Haihaya: The communists asked to us what we do for the starving people.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, what you have done? You are simply talking. What you have done? There are so many starving people all over the world. What you have done? "Starving people." I have seen. They cannot give starving people. Just like we went to Russia. So we wanted rice. There is no rice. There was no good rice. We wanted fruit. There was no fruit. So what you have done? I am starving for fruit and rice. You cannot supply me. That is practical. I have seen it. They will offer, "Take this beef instead of fruit." Then I will starve.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Although this body is temporary, but why don't you understand that it is kleśada: It is always subjected to miserable condition of material life. Kleśada. This is kleśada, another body you get, kleśada. Any body you get, kleśada. Why do you get this? Stop these activities. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That they do not know. Da means "that gives." Any type of material body you accept will be kleśada. They have constructed this building. If for few hours there is severe cold, so many people will die, even in this comfortable building. Is it not? So kleśada is there; either you remain in this way or that way, the sufferings will be there. And to take this comfort of this high building, how much kleśada, how much miserable condition, one has to pass. "Sir, I am not doing; the workers are doing." But you have to collect the money to pay them. How much miserable it is to acquire this money to pay another kleśada, laborer. So simply they are captivated by money.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: Thank you very much. I come from the International Labor Organization which is an organization in the United Nations family. It's the second organization after the United Nations itself, and it's interested in every form of labor, every form of activity connected with labor, and the protection of the worker, the welfare of the worker. And in many respects, of course, our preoccupations must overlap with yours in certain respects of the activities, of man in general and his protection and his well-being.

Prabhupāda: So according to our Vedic conception, the labor class man is supposed to be the fourth-class man. First-class man, intelligentsia, very intelligent, learned. Or intelligent—one who can understand up to God. To understand God requires great intelligence. So first intelligent class of men, up to, so they are called brāhmaṇa. The next intelligent class man, those who give protection to the society, kṣatriya. And the third class, those who produce food and distribute. They are third class. And other, all others, they are fourth class.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: My organization is in fact concerned with the well being of all four classes. It is not only with the laboring man. It's also primarily with the producers, but also with the managers, leaders, and to a certain extent also with the protective classes in that we are interested in the well-being of policemen, hospital personnel, doctors, nurses, that kind of social security workers, and that kind of person. We are interested in the intelligentsia in that they are professional workers, often independent, whose professional rights and obligations need to be safeguarded and codified. That's a standard laid down in the form of international labor standards. One of our activities, not perhaps now the most important, but one of the first.

Prabhupāda: No. My point was, point is that... Because one is fourth-class, therefore we are not interested in that—it is not my point. My point is that there are four classes of men: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. And our point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for taking care of all classes of men. Although by natural division there are four classes of men, first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, but the example we generally give, just like in your body there are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division and the leg division, but all of them meant for keeping the body fit. And body is meant for giving supply to everyone of them.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment in the society, there is very, very little care for the first-class intellectual class of men.

C. Hennis: The International Labor Organization has as one of its major aims to promote social justice, and that means that every class of worker, if you like to accept the four categories that you mentioned—the intellectual, the productive, the protective, and the laboring classes-should each have their proper place in society, should each have a full measure of human dignity, and should each have a proper share in the rewards for labor, both clearly material rewards and honors and dignity and leisure and time for, free time for meditation and so on. In the International Labor Organization, we are not like UNESCO devoted to the more philosophical and cultural and educational aspects for the intelligentsia, but I would draw your attention to the fact that the UNESCO is very much concerned with looking after the head part of society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: That's UNESCO. That I can't answer upon very fully. But I would suggest that they are, in that way UNESCO, United Nations through UNESCO, is very active in promoting culture and in stimulating philosophical thought. We are, on our side are more concerned with the place of the worker in society, and our organization is conceived along a peculiar model which we call the tripartite system. The members of our organization are states, not governments, but states, and each state is represented in our conference by two government delegates, one delegate of the employers and one delegate of the workers. And so the decisions that are reached, the same pattern goes down through the other organs of the organization. But the decisions that are reached in the International Labor Organization are thus not decisions which are only those of the government or the governing classes. They are decisions which represent a very broad consensus of opinions between both the employers and the workers as well as governments. And to that extent we do hope to find resolutions that have a very wide basis of ratification. After they are agreed upon by these three different elements of society represented in our International Labor Conference and in the other organs of the International Labor Organization, we endeavor to get the decisions ratified by national governments. Nevertheless the people who are here go back to their countries and try and get the decisions ratified so that a measure of uniformity in social justice and in the treatment of labor and protection of labor and in social security and in occupational safety and health and of all these things which are bound up with work and also payments to professional workers such as architects, nurses, doctors, people who work on a quite independent basis without being employed. It's not necessarily employees. Veterinarians and so on. The conditions of employment...

Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conception, the higher class of men, first-class, second class, third class, they are never to be employed. They remain free. Only the fourth class men, they are employed.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conception, the higher class of men, first-class, second class, third class, they are never to be employed. They remain free. Only the fourth class men, they are employed.

C. Hennis: Well the third-class would be what kind of typical worker?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Third-class men means making provision for the society for eating. That is... It is stated, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi means agriculture, and go-rakṣya means cow protection, and vāṇijyam means trade. That means the third-class men, they would give protection to the cows, produce enough food grains, and if there is excess, then it can be traded. So this is the business of the third-class men.

C. Hennis: But that would cover businessmen and tradesmen and farmers.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No, from this point of... He is right. Unless he has got the medical degrees, unless he is educated... We also say that thing, that unless one is sufficiently educated in medical science or legal science, he cannot be said a medical man or a legal man.

C. Hennis: You see, my organization represents all the states in the world practically, all the states of any importance in the world, with the exception of a few like Monaco and San Marino and Andorra and that kind of place. And through my organization, the states of the world, and that doesn't only mean governments, express their concern and endeavor to improve the lot of all of the people who are active in some way in the economy and in modern society, these may be professional workers. We don't deal with medical doctors because that is the problems of the World Health Organization. We don't deal with teachers and university professors and philosophers and so on because that is more the problem of UNESCO, and they deal with it very thoroughly. We don't deal by any means fully with the actual production of foodstuffs. This is the FAO, the Food and Agriculture Organization who does it. What we do do, we look after the rewards the people get for the work they do in the ordinary way of life as employees in offices, in banks, in commerce, in shops, trading. We are very interested in developing rural areas and in improving the lot of the rural worker so that the rural worker will no longer be under a disadvantage by comparison with the workers in the towns, so that they will have proper facilities, proper leisure and proper opportunities for self-improvement.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: I may say in this connection, in America, the laborer class is very highly paid. Anyone, any labor class man can earn $25, $50, daily, very easily. But because there is no direction of the brain, these labor class of men—I have seen—they—especially these Negroes—51%, they are drunkards. They spend their money in drinking. They do not know how to utilize the money. Because the brain is not giving direction. Or they have no brain. "I have got so money. How I shall utilize it?" As soon as he gets money, he use it, he uses it for drinking. You may think that you are sufficiently paying to the labor class, worker class, but because he is not guided by brain, he is misspending the money.

C. Hennis: We are interested in that, too. We are interested in that, too. We don't want to tell people how to spend their money. We think that this would be...

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Government made agreement.

Karandhara: Yeah, they made some compromise with the union.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It seems that the government had arrested all of the union leaders, and this paralyzed the worker's appeal. So the workers finally agreed to go back. They put many thousands of union leaders into jail.

Prabhupāda: It was right. (break)

Yogeśvara: ...did in such a way that crops can be grown anywhere? Can crops be grown anywhere in the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If it does not grow, then what is nature's arrangement?

Yogeśvara: Well, for example, there are some parts in India that are too dry to cultivate the ground.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.

Yogeśvara: That was my question. If there is necessity for exporting, then there is necessity for maintaining ships and trains and means of communication, employing workers, electrical dynamos for running...

Prabhupāda: No, point is if in one place you can produce food grains, butter and milk, why not other place? That is my point. The land is everywhere the same. If one place... Now here, in Europe and America, there is enough production because the population is less. So the whole America is bigger than India, at least four times. And the population is not even half. What is the population whole America?

Bhagavān: 200,000,000.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as we suggested chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, he left.

Yogeśvara: The social worker.

Prabhupāda: Yes,

Yogeśvara: With the long hair.

Prabhupāda: Ah ha. So, he did not like the idea?

Yogeśvara: He didn't think it was very practical.

Guru-gaurāṅga: He thinks it works but not all the time. He thinks it works for some people, but not for all people.

Prabhupāda: And all people... Any good thing, it is meant for some people, not for all people. But if there is an ideal class of men, the others will follow. Jewel. Jewel is always costly. Still everyone aspires, "If I get a jewel." That is wanted. Not that everybody can possess jewel, but still, everybody will appreciate jewel.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Nitāi:

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
(BG 9.32)

"O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth—women, vaiśyas (merchants), as well as śūdras (workers)—can approach the supreme destination."

Prabhupāda: So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there is no such distinction because we are interested with the soul. The soul is the same everywhere and these designations are different. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is above designation. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). One is freed from all designation. Actually, on the spiritual level, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is above all these divisions. Sa guṇān samatītya. Find out. Māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate, sa guṇān...

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How it is possible? He's an old man and the wives are young. But they have got dozens of children, and he is trying to give each child five lakhs of rupees. That is to keep the wife. Everyone is trying that. Natural affection, beget children as many as you like, and then bring money and give them. That is (indistinct). This is that heart disease. How you can stop it? The rascals, they do not know it cannot be done. The lower class, still they are maintaining. Manager class, the worker class. That is going on. That higher and lower level must continue in the material world. You cannot stop it. Individually, nationally, communally.

Devotee (1): They have simply taken the sides of the low class against the upper class.

Prabhupāda: That is a sympathy. But you cannot change it. That is not possible. It is very good sympathy.

Page Title:Workers (Conversations 1968 - 1974)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:12 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=65, Let=0
No. of Quotes:65