What is the use (Conversations 1967 - 1974)

Expressions researched:
"what is the use"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: All right. Are there any other... Is there any other information about Haridāsa?

Prabhupāda: The life history of Haridāsa is that he was born in a Muhammadan family. Someway or other he became a devotee and was chanting 300,000 times Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him ācārya, the authority of chanting. Therefore we glorify him, "Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura ki jaya." Because he was made the ācārya, the authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, when Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, Haridāsa Ṭhākura desired that "My dear Lord, You are leaving Nabadwip, then what is the use of my life? Either you take me or let me die." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Why shall you die? You come with Me." So He took him to Jagannātha Purī. At Jagannātha Purī, because he considered himself born of Muhammadan family, he did not enter. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him a place at Kāśīnātha Miśra's house and there he was chanting and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sending him prasādam. In that way he was passing his days. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come and see him daily, and one day he died like this.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Śivānanda: Now, can... We should be able to control our attention then, to direct our attention to where...

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of sitting if you don't control your attention? Then you are simply wasting time. Why do you come? That is understood. When you come to hear, that means you must hear with attention. But this is a concession, that even if you don't hear with attention, you become purified. But if you do it, it is very nice. You make progress. You get the result very quickly. So success of life is to please Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, by one's occupational duty. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitena dharmena. Svanuṣṭhitena dharmena saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). One should try to satisfy the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead. And Lord Caitanya also recommends that "You remain in your occupation. That doesn't matter. But you submissively try to hear." So we are giving this chance to the people "Please come and hear." But they are not prepared even for that thing. The age is so strong, the Kali-yuga, that it will dictate. Māyā will dictate, "Why you go there? What is there?" But actually, those who have come to us, those who are following, they are so much changed. That is a fact. They are seeing. They are hearing, "It will be." They are seeing, "It is." Still, they are not interested. Just like a class of men, they see that a person who has committed theft is arrested by police, and he is hearing that "If you commit theft, then you will be sinful or you will be caught by the laws of the state."

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Śivānanda(?): When do we become attracted? When do we begin to become attracted?

Prabhupāda: Forget that. You are attracted. That you take account of. When you become diseased, that is useless. You are diseased. Take medicine. There is no necessity of asking when you became diseased. You are diseased. Take medicine. That's all. What is the use of tracing the history? Everything has his history, that's all right. But my immediate necessity is that "I am diseased. I want to be cured. Give me some medicine." But there is history. The history is this. Just like disease. You have fallen victim of disease. That means you have given chance to the infection. That's all. That is the sum and substance of disease. You are infected with some disease. That means you have given chance for that infection. There was a story in a medical journal. "Typhoid Mary." Typhoid Mary... One girl, whenever she was present everyone was being infected with typhoid. Then she was examined, that she is full of typhoid germs. But she was immune. But she infected wherever she went. The medical journal reported. So we should be careful not being infected. And that how you can become free from infection? These four rules. "Don't have this, don't have this, don't have this, don't have this." Then you are free from infection. So you should be careful from being infected. There is no use tracing out the history when you become infected. You should not be infected. That should be your business. And as you are now infected, you try to avoid the causes of infection and take the medicine; you become cured. Some prasādam? So Annapurna you have got some news?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Haṁsadūta: Who should do it? I mean, in the temple who should do it?

Prabhupāda: No, everyone should do it. Yes, everyone should learn. Everyone should learn. Sometimes somebody is doing something, somebody is doing something. Yes, like that. Everyone should be expert in every respect, twenty-six qualifications. (car noise outside) You have got car here? No. Nobody has got car amongst our disciples?

Jadurāṇī: No.

Himavatī: Do you need a car, Swamiji?

Prabhupāda: No, because the temple is here, just in front. So what is the use of car?

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, I found a place very likely for a new temple. And I've gone so far as... The lawyer even drew up a lease. So maybe tomorrow you could look at it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. What is the description?

Satsvarūpa: Very excellent location, right downtown. The things wrong with it is that the temple area is no bigger than the temple area we have now, but the location is just the greatest. Second floor. Still, right downtown.

Prabhupāda: Second floor. So what is the rent?

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Well, I suppose not. You could say there is no difference because the food is basically the same materially. It's just a question of the style.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you take... Style may be different. That's all right. Besides that, to maintain your body and soul together, you require eating, you require sleeping, you require mating, you require defense. We don't say that you don't do this. Kṛṣṇa was... Arjuna was defending. Rather, he wanted to be nonviolent. "Oh, what is the use of fighting?" Kṛṣṇa said, "No. It is required. You should." So where is the difference? There is no difference. Simply we are adjusting things so that you may become happy. Any intelligent man will take it. We are not prohibiting, but we are adjusting. So there is no difficulty. Simply intelligent persons like you should try to understand and take it and administer because your country is wanting this.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: So why they should go to the yoga system? The science is more advanced. Before flying in the sky by a yogi he has to press his nose for so many years and the science has given us the airplane. He can purchase ticket, immediately fly. (laughter) What is use of pressing nose?

Yamunā: You explain that in Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the use, wasting time?

Revatīnandana: (indistinct) about when you walk on the water, walking on the water is a bogus thing (indistinct) two cent yogi because for two cents he could have taken (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That's all. If that is the ultimate end of life, to walk on the water or to fly in the sky, so science has given them all opportunity. And the material science is so advanced, that all this yoga system is now almost accomplished because that is material only, material prosperity. Aiye.

Yamunā: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, eating flesh sumptuously and get fat. Flesh-eaters get fatty very quickly, flesh-eaters. Māṁsa. The skin becomes increased for flesh-eating. You see in your country, the Russia? Russian beauty-big belly, fat.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa took him to show His friend. He did not go alone. That he could not. No. (laughter) It was Kṛṣṇa's chariot.

Revatīnandana: So he went to the spiritual sky?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then what is the use of making friendship with Kṛṣṇa if you cannot do so? There was a rich man in Calcutta, Motilal Sill. He was so rich that... Every man has different circle in younger days. So he would see. If any of his friends did not possess a house in Calcutta, he would purchase house. He said that, "If people say, 'Oh, you are friend of Motilal Sill. You have no your own house?' what people will say about me? He must have his own house." He purchased house for him. He was very big man. And there are many incidences also like, a very noble story. Actually it was not long ago, say about hundred years ago. He would not see that any one of his associates, friends, does not possess a house in Calcutta. Another Kṛṣṇa's friend, Sudama also. (chuckles) He could not recognize his own place, how it had happened, palatial buildings, garden. In Kṛṣṇa, you have not read Sudama? Give me water.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Haṁsadūta: So that same thing is there if you want to learn from a spiritual master, that you come with an attitude of submission and prepared to follow the instructions. But if you think, "Well, if I like the instruction, I may follow. And if I don't like, then let him go to hell," then what is the use of inquiry?

Guest (2): No, no, no. We don't want Prabhupāda...

Guest (1): That is not the idea. Submissiveness is the only lesson of Gītā

Haṁsadūta: That is the only lesson. "You just give up all..."

Prabhupāda: No, we cannot hear any more. That is the only lesson. That is the only example.

Haṁsadūta: Kṛṣṇa says, "Give up all forms of religiousness and just surrender unto Me."

Guest (2): You are taking one śloka...

Haṁsadūta: Any śloka, any śloka.

Prabhupāda: Neither you can give up this śloka. You cannot give up this śloka. Yes. So first of all you answer. See practical example. When Arjuna became confused, he said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Now I am surrendered unto You. Please teach me." Unless you come to that point, there will be no teaching and there is no use of teaching.

Room Conversation -- April 6, 1971, Bombay:

Guest: They became atheist...

Prabhupāda: God is not your order-supplier. You create war and pray to the church. Why you create war? Precaution is better than... Unless you Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you will... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). You will encroach upon other's property. That pāpa-bīja has to be killed. Now, after creating war... What is the use? After creating war by your own fault, if you go to the church and pray God, "Please save me," so who wanted you to create this war? They are creating their wars, and they are making God as order-supplier: "Now I have created war. Please stop it." Why? Did you do it by the sanction of God? So they must suffer. How can you make God as your order-supplier? You create something by your own fault and you ask God to come and save you. What is your answer? That is... That is, means, sva-karma-phala-bhuk. You have created something: you must suffer for that. You have created some disease: you must suffer it. Why you violated the law of nature and created your disease? Is it not a fact that when you eat, overeat, and you have got so many troubles in the stomach, then you must suffer for some time. You have created that disease.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Devotee (1): So do you want to give (indistinct) authorization to take sannyāsa as soon as possible?

Prabhupāda: That I tell you, not immediately. But our main business is preaching. Either do it as a gṛhastha or as sannyāsī, it does not matter. This is only formality. The real work is preaching. Just like Rāmānanda Rāya was a gṛhastha and Lord Caitanya was a sannyāsī, but He was taking lesson from Rāmānanda Rāya. This is Caitanya-līlā. He is a sannyāsī and He is God Himself, He is taking lesson from a grhastha who is His disciple. So the real thing is preaching must go on sincerely. This gṛhastha, vānaprastha, these are material regulative principles. Real life is Kṛṣṇa's service. That we have to do, that's all. So whatever position is suitable for you, you accept. You remain as a gṛhastha, remain as sannyāsī, remain as brahmacārī as it becomes suitable for you, but preach. That is the main business. If you lacking in preaching and become a sannyāsī, what is the use of sannyāsa? Better... A gṛhastha is better. Just like I asked Gaurasundara to go to Hawaii. He was just a boy, but he did. Now there is center, nice. So I'm very glad. So you are also doing that. It doesn't matter whether gṛhastha. Karandhara is gṛhastha. But we have to serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That is our main criteria. So we have to see in what position I can serve better Kṛṣṇa. That is our policy. Otherwise, either gṛhastha or sannyāsī, there's no difference.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Śyāmasundara: Well, I'm not so sure. They used to be when I was here, and I think if you have a Bhāgavata-saptāha, if the weather stays, and the weather's any good... I don't know.

Prabhupāda: But the Bhāgavata-saptāha, if they are willing to cooperate with our Bhāgavata-saptāha.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, that's what I mean.

Prabhupāda: Some, some priest come from India, and they cooperate with me. But if they have a feeling of noncooperation with us, then what is the use of paṇḍitas and Bhāgavata-saptāha?

Śyāmasundara: Saturday night you'll be speaking in the Hindu Center?

Dhanañjaya: On the fifteenth.

Śyāmasundara: Saturday, next Saturday night. So that will be a good indication. We'll know after then, if they cooperated, if they'll come. I think there'll be a big crowd.

Dhanañjaya: Actually, you see, it's the younger Indian families also. They're English. They're not Indian. They're more English than Indian. Their children, they don't speak Hindi, and they're playing just like Western children. So they're, when they see us, when we, when devotees go there, to the communities, they're so eager to take the books 'cause they can read them and they can relate with, with Kṛṣṇa consciousness somehow. Because they go every Sunday to their meetings there, and they hear the priest, and it's all boring. It's for the older, for the old. It's sentimental. That's all. So the older people, they're coming, and they're listening to the readings of the Rāmāyaṇa and so many other things. And the young people, they know, "Oh, these, these European people and American people, they must be doing something genuine. Otherwise why are they sacrificing so much?"

Prabhupāda: So how to attract the Indian younger people?

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: Sometimes, that is their natural position.

Prabhupāda: It is a disease. Disease. Lust and greediness. There are three qualities in the world, material world. One is called sattva-guṇa, one is called rajo-guṇa, another is called tamo-guṇa. Goodness. Rajo-guṇa is passion, and tamo-guṇa is darkness. So at the present moment these two guṇas, qualities, darkness and passion are prevalent. Goodness gone. Goodness gone. And the darkness and passion, the symptoms are greediness and lust. People are being educated to become greedy and lusty. That's all. Nobody is being educated to become good. So what is the use of these rascal universities? If they are producing greedy and lusty people, then what is the use of education? Vidyā dadāti namratā. Education means everyone should be gentleman. That is education. And if you produce lusty and greedy people there is no... This is animal education. The animals are lusty and greedy. (break)

Journalist (1): What is your view of predominant Western civilization, Sir?

Prabhupāda: This predominance is dwindling. Where is your British Empire gone?

Journalist (1): Yes, quite. In fact, I was asking you about...

Prabhupāda: So this is artificial. There was Roman Empire, there was Mogul Empire, there was Carthagian Empire, there was Egyptian Empire and Greece and so on. They come and go. And there is a song by a Vaiṣṇava, kata caturānana, māri māri yāvatā.(?) There are so many Brahmās come also and they died. So this kind of empirical imperial, onslaught, they will come and stay for hundred or two hundred, and create some problems. There were...Just like there was Napoleon, there was this and that. So they will come and go. They will come and go, create some disturbances and go. Nobody will stay.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (1): Except people who have accepted the Kṛṣṇa consciousness presumably. That...

Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy. First of all, you were talking about the Christian religion. I say that Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion, there may be different religions, but what is the aim of religion? That you should understand. The aim of religion is to know God. If you profess some religion, but if I ask you what is God, if you cannot explain, then what is the use of your becoming religious?

Journalist (1): Probably none. But people like to have, or seem to like to have a religion.

Prabhupāda: They don't like. They don't like God. They don't like God. As soon as somebody speaks of God, "They say they are crazy." So actually there is no Christian, no Hindu, no Muslim. All demons. That's all.

Journalist (1): How do you stop that?

Prabhupāda: Well, become religious. If you are really Christian, that is all right. But you are not Christian because you are violating the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed his life and he says that he atoned for your sins, but you are not stopping your sinful life, and still you are claiming to be Christian. The fun is going on. Actually there is no Christian. Otherwise Christian religion is very nice religion. Yes.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (1): Well, if you accept. Again, it's a slight digression.

Prabhupāda: No. You have no idea of God. You cannot give name, address, occupation of God. I can give.

Journalist (1): Do you need to have a name and address and occupation for God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Just like when you come, I ask you what you are: "What is your name? What is your address? What is occupation?" This is the first introduction. If I do not know your name, address, occupation, then what is the use of talking with you?

Journalist (1): Well, I would... Again, its a very interesting concept because often in Western civilization God is defined more as an idea than as a, something...

Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. God is fact. God is a person like you and me. You can talk with Him, you can see Him. That is God. Not idea. We are talking with Kṛṣṇa. We are taking His instruction and abiding by His order. It is not an idea. It is fact. That is God.

Journalist (1): That's a difficult thing for people...

Prabhupāda: Not difficult thing. If you do not take it is difficult. If you accept, there is no difficulty. They are accepting. There is no difficulty. They have also belonged to Western country. They are happy. And ask him.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1971, London:

Haṁsadūta: Sport.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Haṁsadūta: A big sport festival in Munchen. (break) And so we have some girls and they have asked us, they want to be married. What is our position?

Prabhupāda: Be married legally first.

Haṁsadūta: Legally. And they will be living outside the temple for sure. Is that correct, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: And with a job and like that.

Prabhupāda: No, they can live in the temple...

Haṁsadūta: But they will live separate .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Then what is the use of getting married? (end)

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Reporter: But, well, he'll go to the... Supposing somebody is out to kill me. That's changing, if you can't tell him...

Prabhupāda: But suppose (indistinct) does not kill you. Will you be safe?

Reporter: No, sir. That I can see, but...

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of going to (indistinct)? You will die today or tomorrow. That's all. If you want to save yourself, then go to Kṛṣṇa. That is our proposal. (laughter) As soon as you go the (indistinct), he does not fight, do you mean to say you will live forever?

Reporter: No, no, sir. I've got...

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of telling (indistinct)? Trust Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa so that you may perpetually be saved. Why don't you take that?

Reporter: I was only thinking in terms of collective security, not... I can see your point now.

Prabhupāda: You should know that you are always in danger.

Reporter: Yes, sir. We agree.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say I don't (indistinct) name.

Reporter: Who will name it? Who will (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of bhāṣya. I say take it AS IT IS. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." Gītā gave. Why bhāṣya? Why bhāṣya? They, Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Kurukṣetre is still there, you know. There is a station. Why do you interpret in different way?

Reporter: Sir, it is a joy to be with you.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of interpreting Kurukṣetra as different? That is a simple waste of time.

Reporter: Are you a skeptic, sir?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: Have you been to Russia (indistinct) and (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Reporter: They allowed you to preach?

Prabhupāda: So why not? We are not afraid of anybody.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: ...that some people feel to get married is not meaningful.

Prabhupāda: No, the idea is that marriage is not sacred. They think marriage is a legalized prostitution. They think like that, but marriage is not that. Even that Christian paper, what is that, "Watch...?"

Śyāmasundara: Christian..."Watchtower?"

Prabhupāda: "Watchtower." It has criticized, one priest has allowed the marriage between man to man, homosex. So these things are going on. They take it purely for prostitution. That's all. So therefore people are thinking, "What is the use of keeping a regular prostitution at a cost of heavy expenditure? Better not to have this."

Śyāmasundara: You use that example of the cow and the market?

Prabhupāda: Yes, when the milk is available in the market, what is the use of keeping a cow? (laughter) It is a very abominable condition. In the western countries I have seen. Here also, in India, gradually it is coming to be so. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) (break) ...movement is especially meant for making human life, reaching the real goal.

Bob: The real goal?

Prabhupāda: The real goal of life.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: Not adequately because if I could explain, then I would be becoming liberated very fast.

Prabhupāda: But if you do not know what is liberation, then how fast and slow liberation? (laughs) There is no question of liberation. It is neither fast nor slow. You first know what is liberation. If you do not know where the train is going, then what is the use of asking or understanding fast and slow? You do not know your destination. What is liberation?

Bob: Umm...

Prabhupāda: I am asking. You daily ask me; I am asking you today.

Bob: Okay, yes. (laughs) I'll think for a moment.

Śyāmasundara: Shall I turn this off, this fan? It's cool now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, he'll do. Where is Nanda Kumāra? He can do. (break) ...is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The exact Sanskrit word for liberation is called mukti. So that mukti is defined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). One should stop doing all nonsense, and he must be situated in his original position. But this is also more embarrassing because nobody knows what is his original position. And how to act properly. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. People are generally acting differently. But they do not know what is differently and what is properly. So much ignorant are the modern population about their life. It is very, very awkward position. They do not know.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Śyāmasundara: It's salt and pepper.

Prabhupāda: No, no. One has to learn how Kṛṣṇa is always God in any circumstance. And if he can understand this philosophy, then Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā he becomes immediately liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ ye jānāti tattvataḥ. "My activities, My birth, they are all transcendental. One who understands in truth," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), "after leaving this body, he no more comes to this material." That means we can be liberated simply by understanding His activities. All the qualities are described in the Nectar of Devotion. He has got sixty-four qualities. Unlimited qualities, but for our understanding, Rūpa Gosvāmī only discussed sixty-four. Just see, that lady was speaking that she speaks to thousands and thousands of people. How ignorant she is about God. She was inquiring, "Kṛṣṇa is not..." That means she cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. And she is leader, thousands of people she is speaking. What is the use of her speaking if she has no clear idea? This is going on. Useless speaking. In India also, so many fools, they are accepted as very perfect. Just like Gandhi, take Gandhi. Where was Gandhi? In spiritual consciousness, he is nothing. Nothing, no value. But if we say in the public, they will be angry, "Oh!" But actually there is no value, no spiritual value. He is known all over the world as a great spiritualist. He was a moralist, that's all. That is not a qualification for understanding God.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, our Prime Minister.

Sumati Morarjee: And they were both (indistinct) for four days, five days, and then they discussed various thing, and now they have come to an understanding that everything must be mutually done, and with the (indistinct), and they have to be...

Prabhupāda: So, what is the use of keeping Pakistan? Let it, let, let, let them have another.

Sumati Morarjee: I know, I know, but what about this Bangladesh also, you'll have to.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Sumati Morarjee: Do something, because I met so many people from Bangladesh they were completely subverting our culture.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is nothing prohibited. Simply you have to change your consciousness, that's all. We are also eating, we are also sleeping. Many of our students are householders; they have sex. So there is..., nothing is prohibited, but regulated for higher achievement. That is our program.

Guest (2): Have you asked the government for money? President Nixon?

Prabhupāda: No. What is the use of asking? Who will give me? Why shall I be refused? If you think this, this movement is serious, good, then you come forward. I cannot approach the government and the government says no. I don't think it is good for the government.

Guest (2): Do you see yourself then as the savior of American youth?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. It is saved already. Why? It is not future, it is present, practical.

Guest (2): Thank you very much Your Holiness. Good luck.

Prabhupāda: So, religion, very simple—I am talking with that man over there—religion means the laws of God. Simple definition. And one who follows the laws of God, he is religious. It doesn't matter whether he is Christian, whether he is Hindu, whether he is Muslim. It doesn't matter. Take, for example, your Christian religion. Lord Jesus Christ says "Thou shalt not kill", but I think cent percent of the Christian people, they are very much engaged in killing. So there are, I mean, disobeying the laws of God. Don't you think? What is..., what is the value? And if you disobey the laws of God, then what is your religion? It is simply show. God says, or God's representative, God's son, Jesus Christ says, that "Thou shalt not kill," but the whole Christian world, the killing art is very much favored. Maintaining slaughterhouse, shooting in sports, and creating (indistinct), and so many things, simply killing. And any film shown, when it is killing film as is very much popular. Shooting film is very popular. I see in your park the soldiers killing. This, this park I was passing. What is that park?

Devotee: Prospect Park.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: But he does not know. That is... Therefore we call these rascal. Why we are calling these scientists, philosophers, politician rascal? Because they have got brain but they're misusing. Therefore they have been called duṣkṛtinaḥ. You have got brain, you can utilize it for smuggling and you can utilize it also how to understand Kṛṣṇa. The same brain.

Indian: But the development of my economy...

Prabhupāda: Development... If you become miscreants by utilizing your better brain, then what is the use? You are going to hell. This brain has no meaning. Misuser brain. Brain means to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is brain.

Ian Polsen: Yes.

Indian: Perform his duty.

Prabhupāda: He does not know what is his duty. He talks of so many big, big things, duty. But if I ask, "What is your duty?" he cannot explain. So these things will not help. Simply...

Indian: Every man in this world, every being in this world has got a duty, performance, object...

Prabhupāda: But first of all say what is your duty.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So make arrangement. At least two cars, nice cars.

Devotee: One car and one van?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: One car and one van?

Prabhupāda: Van? What is the use of van?

Devotee: Well, they can carry many people, that's the thing, like a saṅkīrtana party.

Prabhupāda: Saṅkīrtana may be six men. They can go in car.

Devotee: (laughs) Yeah.

Prabhupāda: And better for carrying our luggage, add to the car some small...

Devotee: Trailer.

Prabhupāda: ...trailer, yes, two wheel. Oh, it will go.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vivekananda says, "What is that, meat-eating?" Kṛṣṇa says, makes division...

Guest (2): Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was the incarnation of Lord Rāma and Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: That is to Vivekananda, not to others.

Guest (2): Was he not realized?

Prabhupāda: That is another question. Don't bring controversial. If you have got Kṛṣṇa, what is the use of Ramakrishna? When you have got Kṛṣṇa original, why should you go to Ramakrishna? A shopkeeper says, "This is the same medicine, sir, but it is very cheap." But a real customer says, "No, I want the original. I don't want this imitation. Give me the original." Accepting Ramakrishna as incarnation, so why shall I go to incarnation when I have got Kṛṣṇa?

Guest (2): Like you said, guru you know. We go through...

Prabhupāda: There is paramparā. So there is symptoms of guru not that everyone becomes guru. These are controversial points. We don't want this. Why don't you give the ladies first, these ladies? (Hindi) Yes. I am old man. Old men, children, ladies, they must be first supplied.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But they will do it because they have got motorcars, they must find out petrol.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why they are called development of new departments of knowledge. With the rise of necessity, they develop new departments of searching out the unknown.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of this development? It will be problem after all. What is the use of such knowledge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They fail to see that point.

Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. They do not have clear eyesight, clear insight. They do not know whether they are degrading or developing. Just like the flies, with great force they will go into the fire. They think they are making progress, they are going to the light. They think; otherwise how they are going? Such kind of advancement. They are going to die, be annihilated, and they still, "Oh, we are going force, by force we are going to the light. Here is darkness, there is light." This is their philosophy. Just like a mad driver drinking drives recklessly to die, that's all. But he is thinking, "Oh, I am going with so much great speed." He does not know that he is going to die after few minutes. And that is their development.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They search for knowledge, but loosing Kṛṣṇa, searching in the wrong direction.

Prabhupāda: The search for knowledge is natural, but the knowledge should be taken from the person who knows the knowledge. That they do not know. The search is all right, but they are taking knowledge from a rascal. That is the difference. So one rascal is teaching another rascal, so what is the advancement of knowledge? Both of them remains in the ignorance. What is the use of the search? Better to stop this university.

Jayatīrtha: Actually people are seeing that more and more all the big problems are being created at universities, all the university students are rioting and becoming restless, Communists...

Prabhupāda: Because the knowledge has begun from wrong conception of life.

Jayatīrtha: They see that they are being cheated, yet they are cheating others also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda says, there are so many departments of knowledge in all the universities, but the most important department of knowledge, what is the purpose of human life, is left out.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...leaders. General public, they do no know, they are ignorant, blind. But the leaders are also blind. So blind leader leading other blind men, that means disaster. That is happening.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: For education? Yes.

Gurudāsa: But I asked him, "Do they teach any spiritual philosophy there," and he said no.

Prabhupāda: There is no spiritual philosophy. It is an academic, ordinary college. People understand that where is the credit, there are so many colleges. Responsible people, they understand that I am doing much more valuable thing. So what is the use of these schools and colleges? That (indistinct) school, college is not very good. And there are so many schools and colleges. That is not a very extraordinary thing.

Gurudāsa: Now I understand that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, that school is not teaching spiritual philosophy. I told many people that if we got the chance to open a university, we would not compromise. We would not do anything with the government if they restricted our curriculum...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: ...without spiritual... Without spiritual it is void.

Prabhupāda: What do they say?

Gurudāsa: They think. Then I say, "You can teach all the subjects and also teach the spiritual. "

Prabhupāda: If we organize our Bombay, then we shall regularly teach all the students from the very beginning. And in London also we shall. London, Dallas. So that these students will be transferred. Their parents will be very glad that our students have gone to foreign countries for study. We shall have very, very good sympathy(?). Our only policy will be the students should be taught very nice English for understanding our books.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1972, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: That Devasa(?) boy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this cheating process is going on. But you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa or māyā, that is not possible. It is gosvāmī, that is (indistinct) Don't make compromise that somehow or other just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the laws of nature. So how is that achieved? Just like laws of nature are so strict, if you eat more, immediately you get indigestion. So how you can cheat? You can experience. Nature's law is working. Therefore, to become brāhmaṇa means satyam. You know the meaning of satyam? Satyam means truth. The first quality is he is truthful. Satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam. The beginning is satyam. Generally the people in pilgrimages like Vṛndāvana, they have taken this religiousness as a profession to earn money, just like other businessmen do. That is cheating. Generally they do so. In Los Angeles they are keeping the standard given by ourself. At every āratik in early morning, at least 150 men. Even though I am not present, by system, by kīrtana, dancing, offering Deity worship nicely (indistinct). So we have to maintain the standard very strictly. Otherwise it will again become Rādhā-Dāmodara temple and Bharatpur Mahārāja (indistinct). You will have to find out some customer to sell it. What is the use of starting temple if you do not do it properly? Why should you waste your energy? Better travel and preach. Don't take the risk of starting big, big temple. As soon as the energy is gone, there will be trouble. That Govindajī's temple, that man lost everything because he was cheating. If this man is also cheating, then he will also. Our Tīrtha Mahārāja is cheating, then what is his...? He got so many things but he could not do anything. Now he is after these buildings, that's all. Otherwise, what is his credit? He is not a good preacher. He was at the head of Caitanya Maṭha. How much duty was..., heavy duty he had to preach. But he has no preaching capacity.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: No, I think it's up to God and karma-kāṇḍa.

Prabhupāda: So then they must know what is karma-phala. This is a fact. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). But they are..., do not know how to execute karma. They're doing all kinds of sinful activities. So, suppose after this body, on account of my sinful activities, I am going to become a rat or cat or snake or a tree, then what is the use of my so much, how you'd say, jumping over nationalism and this ism and that. If by nature I am going to accept next life the body of a cat and dog, or a tree, then what is the meaning of my, this so-called nationality at the present moment? Is it not the duty of the guardians who are taking care of the people or their son, to educate human being in such a way that they can get better body? What is that education? You are darkness, nobody knows what kind of body he's going to accept next life.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that? Even if you live longer, does it mean that eternal life? That is already there. I'll live for eighty years. Another lives, for, say, sixty years. Another lives for hundred years. That is already there. The trees live for thousands of years. Does it mean it is life? A tree lives for... In your San Francisco there is a tree which is said seven thousand years. Does it mean it is life? To live for so long duration of life? Then the tree is better than you. It is also living. Śaṅkarācārya lived for thirty-two years. Lord Caitanya lived for forty-eight years. So what is the use of living for hundred years? Who is more famous than Śaṅkarācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu? So you live for a moment. But live worth. Then it is life. And living for seven thousand years, standing like the tree, is that life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like the (indistinct) says, "One crowded hour of glorious life is worth a day without a name."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. Kalpa-sthāyino guṇāḥ. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that if you have got qualities, then you live for millions of years. Millions of years. If you have got quality. And if you have no quality, then living for thousands of years like the tree, what is the use? Is that very glorious life to stand up in a place like a tree for thousands of years? Actually they do not know what is the value of life. (Break) ...how people are busy here. And we see how people are wasting time. This is the vision.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So how they are thinking? He does not know, what is the use of thinking rascally? One can think properly if he knows things. If he does not know, then what is the use of thinking? The madman also thinks. What is the use of such thinking? Now our thinking begins from the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As the body's changing from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly the proprietor of the body will change this body. At the last moment. Death means changing of the body. This is the... Now we can think. When there is proper subject matter, then you can think, how it is, how the changes. You have no proper subject matter, nobody is to guide you. What is the value of your thinking? Like dogs and cats? You do not know how to think. That is possible. How to think, that is possible in human life. So if you don't take up opportunity, how to think, then what is the use of your thinking like cats and dogs? Simply wasting time. The valuable life, you are wasting. Making experiment in the laboratory, nonsensically, that from matter they'll create life. You see. How this nonsense...? What is the use of such thinking? Which is never possible. These rascals are thinking on that, in that way, that they'll in future produce life from matter which has never been possible in the history, past, present and they're thinking; "Oh, bright future." That potter's thinking.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: ...seems very dark.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Idle brain is a devil's workshop. If they're not directed, then think like devil. We are thinking rightly because we are taking direction from Kṛṣṇa, the most perfect. Therefore our thinking has meaning. And what is the value of their thinking? It has no value. Now we are thinking... Just like, take the first instruction, that within this body there is the proprietor of the body. You can go on thinking: "Then am I this body?" So you can think on your finger. "I am this finger?" The answer from the within will come: "No, you are not finger. It is your finger. It is your finger. You are not finger." If I am finger, then if I cut my finger, why shall I not die? If I am finger? Therefore it is my finger. Just like I'll never think that I am this stick. It is my stick. That is thinking. That is thinking. If I wrongly think that I am this body, then your whole thinking process is wrong and they are thinking like that, that we are this body.

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijyadhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣvabhijñeṣu sa eva gokaraḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

So such kind of thinking is done by the asses and cows, yasyātma-buddhiḥ. One who is thinking: "I am this body," he's no better than the animal, ass or cow. They're all thinking like that: "I am this body." They're asses. And the whole world is suffering by thinking like that. "I am American, I am Indian, I am Russian, I am this, I am that." That's all. We must know how to think. Then our thinking will produce some good result. If I do not know how to think, then what is the use of my thinking? A mad man is also thinking: "I am the emperor." Does it mean that he's emperor? Sometimes, I have seen, a madman falls flat on the street. "Nobody can check me." So motor driver, they become little cautious, he's a rascal, madman. So madman's thinking, what is the value of madman's thinking? They're all mad. Piśācī paile jana mati chana hana.(?)They're a ghostly haunted person. As he's mad, similarly those who are entrapped by this material energy, they're all madmen. If I think that, "I am this coat, I am this shirt, I am this cloth," am I not mad? The body's just like shirt and coat. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The child is sent to school just for teaching him how to think correctly. Otherwise, what is the use of sending him to school? He can think at home. Why they are sent to school? To learn how to think. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) This is thinking, when you question that: "I want to become happy. Why I am not happy?" This is thinking. Everyone wants to become happy, but nature's process is to obstruct his happiness. So one should think: "Why this is position? I want to live. Why, by laws of nature, I am put to death? I must die? This is against my wish, against my desire." This is thinking. So how to get out of it? This is real thinking. I don't want something, but something is forced upon me, and why it is so? When this "Why?" question will come to me, that is real thinking. Where is that thinking? These rascals, where is that thinking? How to check death, how to check disease, how to check old age. Where is that thinking? Where is that scientist? Who is making research how to stop death, who is making research how to stop disease? You can manufacture medicine for the disease, but you cannot check happening of disease. That is not possible. Why it is? That is thinking. I want something, but it is being obstructed by nature. Why it is so? This "Why?" question must have come. Then his thinking is proper. That is Kena-upaniṣad, Kena.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kena.

Prabhupāda: Kena upaniṣad. This "why?", simply so many "why's". Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (pause) After making so much research and invention, after all, the scientist's going to die like cats and dogs. Then what is the use of his thinking? The cats and dogs also will die, and Professor Einstein will also die. So where is the difference? Real unhappiness, neither the scientist can check, neither the cat and dog can check. So where is the use of your thinking foolishly? And they do not believe that there is life after death. So far we are concerned... (break) Neither they do believe that there is life after death. Although practically we are seeing, after child's life, there is youth's life, after youth's life, there is elderly life, after elderly life, old life... So this we are seeing. Still we do not believe, that after this body, there is life again. Natural sequence. Big, big professors, they say: "Oh, after this body, everything is finished." And they're planning all happiness on this basis. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (pause)

Devotee: Any moment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Handling every day. Still they'll not. Dog's obstinacy. That's all. They're seeing practically, that the material energy cannot work independently unless the spiritual energy joins. So how they can expect the whole cosmic manifestation, which is matter only, has come out automatically? We are practically seeing, a very nice car, Cadillac. But if there is no driver, what is the use of that car? A computer machine. Unless the man knows how to work it, pushes the button, it does not work. So practically we are seeing that without superior energy, the material energy does not act. Still they'll not believe it. Therefore in this wonderful cosmic manifestation, there must be handling of a superior energy. And that they do not know. They are amazed with this material arrangement. Just like a foolish person is amazed by seeing the mechanical, big machine. So many parts. But another person knows that, however wonderful machine it may be, unless the operator comes and pushes the button, it will not work. This is intelligence.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the, the background is not solid.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like the one strata is like that. After an hour, it will be different. So what is the use of your studying this strata? Therefore it is called jagat. Jagat means always changing. The material world is always changing. Your body. This body will stay, say, for fifty years, hundred years. Then you get another body. That's all. Another body. Jagat means changing. Now this color is there. Say, after one hour it will be white. You see. Then you study this black color. Again you study the white color. Again this black color. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. That is your business. Just like seasonal changes. Now it is cold. Any moment, you'll have to get out (of) these clothes. It is very warm. So these changes are going on. The whole material cosmic manifestation is subjected to different types of changes. Therefore it is called jagat. Jagat means going, changing. Your body's changing. Similarly everything is changing. What is the eternity behind these changes? That is knowledge. That, the eternity, they do not find. Therefore they are disappointed: "It is void, zero. Eternity is zero." That's all. And when they are asked wherefrom the zero, varieties come...? Zero means there is nothing. So how the varieties come? Therefore Vedic conclusion, the varieties, there is, eternity variety. And this is only shadow of that variety. It is not eternal because it is shadow. But the real variety spiritual world, is there.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Very expensive isn't it?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I think in Japan they get water from the ocean.

Brahmānanda: I don't know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's process. They remove the salt. And they use the water for drinking. But it is quite expensive.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use? If people cannot provide it...?

Brahmānanda: It's not free. It's not provided freely.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll say when the necessity arises, they'll do it.

Prabhupāda: All future.

Brahmānanda: In the future. It's going to be a wonderful future.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So so long as the future is there, they have something to say.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you protest, write in book. You are scientist. Write in book. Prove scientifically. That will be your laurel of taking the doctorate degree. If you also become one of these rascal doctors, then what is the use of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness that whatever they say you silently accept? No. Just become Babhruvāhana, Manipur Babhruvāhana, that the fighting is faced. Take assistance, you have got. Ask Dr. Rao to come, join. Make plan. Go from town to town, all over the world. This has to be done. There was a poetry by Rabindranath Tagore. The purport of the poetry is that one who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal. Challenge these rascals. Stop their rascal theories. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called modern leader, he is a paśu, animal.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the basis that life started from matter. They are thinking that this is the body.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to make very strong propaganda against this theory. Otherwise if you sleep only and take doctorate title, what is the use? You have to fight against these rascals. Make your soldier's party and start fighting against these rascals. No more toleration. No more silence. What is that sound?

Brahmānanda: Oh, it's a power saw. They are going to cut the wood.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we publish that the original source is life, then everybody has to accept it that the... Everybody has to accept Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our program. As soon as they agree, "Yes, life is...," then they have to accept Kṛṣṇa automatically. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). (break) Some of them are thinking that this is a saṅkīrtana party. We are saṅkīrtana party, undoubtedly. But they may not think "They are sentimentalists." They must know that we are scientists. Everywhere is the direction. These high waves, this big Pacific Ocean, they are also carrying out the direction of that Supreme life. Just like this airplane is floating. Is it floating without any direction?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is direction.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is also not guaranteed. Why I am taking so much trouble? They are so foolish persons. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jīvake karaye gādhā. This so-called scientific education means people become more attracted with this temporary world and he works very hard, just like an ass. Ass, the example of ass is because the ass does not know what is his interest, but works very hard. Therefore ass example is given. Ass, he carries the washerman's cloth, tons, but not a single cloth belongs to him. He is naked. And still he is working. He does not know, "Why I am working for the washerman, carrying so much load?" That sense he hasn't got. He thinks that "Washerman gives me to eat some grasses." Although grasses are all over. That is ass. That is ass. So these scientific research workers, they are asses. He does not know that "I shall live for thirty years. So what is the use of my research work?" But intelligent man will say, "Let me utilize this thirty years to prepare for my next life." That is intelligence. But they. But they have no idea of the next life. (pause) Again, Switzerland.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Well, the argument that has been presented is that "Well we don't have it now, but soon we're to have it. So..."

Prabhupāda: That any rascal will say. What is the difference between you and the rascal? Any rascal will say, that "I am trying to..." What is the use of these scientists? Any rascal will say. Trust no future, however pleasant. You can talk of all pleasant things in future, but you don't trust it. You as you don't trust, because you do not see soul, you don't trust. Why shall I trust you, you rascal, that in future you shall be very great scientist? You do not trust because you do not see. There is no soul. You cannot see. So why shall I trust you? What is the answer? That in future you will be able to do something extraordinary. Why shall I trust you?

Umāpati: Give them a lot of credit.

Karandhara: Well they say they have done so much in the past, they have accomplished so much in the past.

Prabhupāda: That is all useless. What you have done? You have not given any contribution that there will be no death. The death is there. In the past there was death, and people are dying now. What you have done?

Paramahaṁsa: Helped death.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You can see that you are a fool (but) God is not fool. That is the difference. But God is (indistinct), He'll not speak foolish. Because he is above all this foolishness but you are within the foolishness. That is the difference. Try to answer them like that. You are within the status of foolishness, māyā, and God is above māyā. If God is also within the māyā, as the rascal Māyāvādīs say, then what is the use of God? We are everything.

Yogeśvara: They just accumulate knowledge just for knowledge sake.

Prabhupāda: Not just for knowledge because they do not get any knowledge. They have no knowledge. What is the knowledge? They talk all nonsense. What is the knowledge?

Revatīnandana: His argument was "Well there's no point in talking about this matter. All of us accept this." He's saying: all big authorities, they accept this point of view, that this was recently written literature.

Prabhupāda: No, they don't know who are authorities.

Revatīnandana: That's right.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Devotee (1): Sometimes people ask, "If I surrender to God, give everything to God, then how will the state go on, how will the work, the factories, how would all that go on?

Prabhupāda: That, Kṛṣṇa is taking responsibility. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. He takes responsibility. Otherwise what is the use of surrender unto Kṛṣṇa? He takes responsibility.

Devotee (1): (laughs) Just can't go wrong, then.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Actually Kṛṣṇa is doing everything. We are thinking, "I'm doing it." We are doing nothing. Just like he has become a famous sculptor. Why you could not? Why, what is the reason? Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ (BG 15.15). "I am seated in everyone's heart." When He works, Kṛṣṇa says, "Do like this; it will be perfect like this." So Kṛṣṇa is guiding. And everyone is being guided by Kṛṣṇa, even in this condition of life. And when he fully surrenders, how much guidance he will come his way? Even without surrender he's guided. Without His guidance he can not do it.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That king should be a representative of God. That is ideal king. But if he thinks that "This kingdom is my property, and let me enjoy for my sense enjoyment," then it is all gone. If he thinks himself as representative of God... Just like we think. Therefore we are after our disciples: "Do this, do that, do that, do that." We want to see that my disciples also become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, it is the king's duty to see that every citizen becomes God conscious. Then he is representative of God. That is the first duty. The division must be there, and the, it is the duty of the king to see that everyone is discharging according to his responsibility. That is king's duty. A brāhmaṇa is acting exactly like brāhmaṇa. The kṣatriya is acting exactly like kṣatriya. A vaiśya is... Like that. It is the duty of a king to see that nobody's unemployed, everyone is engaged in his own occupational duty. That is the... And they must feel security of life, property, anxiety. That is perfect king. Here, at the present moment, nobody is confident whether he'll live after an hour or... You see. Anyone can take your property and life, at any moment. There is no protection. There is no protection. And so far anxiety, there is no length and breadth. People are always full of anxieties. Unemployment. These things should not be there. No unemployment, no anxiety, no feelings of insecurity. And that is good government. Nowadays there are police force. But what is the use of this police force? You go on the street, somebody stabs you, what police can do? If somebody takes away your money from your personal pocket, what the police can do? They'll take some note.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles.) Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent. Just like one man is working somewhere. Now, notice is given that "From such and such date, your work will not be required." Then you become anxious to know: "Then what shall I do next." I have to work. So similarly, if a person understands that he's going to change this body... Just like I'm an old man. I'll have to change in, say, immediately, or say five years, ten years. But the notice is already there because I am old man. So it is my duty to think: "Then what body I'm going to take next?" That is intelligence. And we have to prepare for that. So that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can prepare yourself to go the higher planetary system, where demigods live. Pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. You can go to the Pitṛloka. Bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā. If you want to remain within this planetary system,... yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām. "And anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he comes to Me," Kṛṣṇa says. So why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "If one comes to My place, he never comes back again in the material world." That is intelligence. Why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? But they have no intelligence. They're spoiling their life, simply living like cats and dogs. This is the position. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save them, that "Don't go again to the cats and dogs category; go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa." There is... Here is the possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Why don't you take advantage of this? Kṛṣṇa says: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who tries to understand Me, Kṛṣṇa, what I am..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one stops his rebirth in this material form. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are training people that "You have to take another body. So what is the use of taking...? Even if you take the body of demigod, like Brahmā, millions of years age..." That is stated in the Bhag ... ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16).

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: A child is innocent, and his father is ignorant. His father may be knowing something, and purposely does not take. That is ignorance. Or he thinks that "What is the use of taking it?" That is ignorance. And innocent, he does not know anything. Actually, practically, there is little difference, but if you ask, you can differentiate in this way. Just like in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This mūḍha is ignorant, and he does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone, according to our Vedic culture, for the last five thousand years, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but he'll not do. He will say, "Why Kṛṣṇa will be the Supreme Lord? I am also." This is offense. This is offense. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. This offense is created on account of sinful life. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Innocent has no sinful life. Otherwise there is no difference between ignorant and innocent. Purposefully, when one remains ignorant, foolish, purposefully... He'll not accept. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. According to Vedic culture, Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But there are many purposefully who will not accept Him. What can be done? They will argue. They will not accept the ācāryas. All the ācāryas, they accept Kṛṣṇa. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. They are the leaders of Vedic culture at the pre..., in the present moment. They are accepting. But other, foolish people, they are not accepting. māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā: their knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Although they appear to be very learned, but actually, a sense of knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Real thing they do not understand, nor, or refuse to understand. So they are offenders. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhi. "All the Māyāvādīs, they are offenders to Kṛṣṇa." Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu (BG 16.19). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Dviṣataḥ krūrān. They're envious, krūra. "I put them into the hellish condition of life." These, these Europeans and American boys, they're innocent. I have told them that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." They have accepted. That's all. Others, they will argue, "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be...?" They're offenders. Yes. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa; still they will argue.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are giving the right information, how human being can be really happy. This is end. It is not a religious sentiment. Religion means kind of faith. Today I am Hindu; tomorrow I am Christian; next day I am Mohammedan. What benefit I may get by changing so-called faith? Unless I understand what is my constitutional position, why I am suffering, how to get out of it? That is real life. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. It is not a sentimental religious faith. It is not like that. It is absolutely necessary for the human being. We are talking of human being because without being a human being, nobody will be able... The cats and dogs, they will not be able to understand the problem. In the human form of life, you can make solution of all the problems of life. It is a science, how to make that solution. That we are teaching. We are not talking of religion. Religion... Somebody will say, "I believe," "We believe..." Another will, "We believe..." You believe, if it is not a fact, what is the use of such believing? We are dealing with facts, not the question of believing and not believing. Facts are facts. If you don't take facts, then you are missing the opportunity. (pause) You have got some visitors' book? To...?

Haṁsadūta: Visitors' book, to sign?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. I am making atomic bomb, you are making... Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters. But did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat. Just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up." So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter. Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable. And they eat and they live. Now the advancement... Agricultural institute, a big college, how to improve agriculture. Crude people, they are producing also. Without agricultural college, they are producing sufficiently grain and eating. Still they do so. Do they depend on agricultural education? Real education is how to solve the problems of life, birth, death, old age, and how to go back to home, back to... That is education. This is not education. This is simply waste of time. Because you cannot change your destiny. Now, take for example, there are so many agricultural improvements. Does it mean that there is no person who is needy? There are so many needy persons. But has the agricultural education improved their lot? No. Starving people are still there. Rather, those who can produce, they're producing and throwing into the sea. They'll not part with it for the poor men who are starving. Then where is the advancement of education? You produce more by advanced agricultural process and then throw it into the ocean. Real purpose was to produce more to see that nobody's hungry. That is not being done. There is no sympathy. This is not civilization. This is a hodge-podge. Simply wasting labor. That's all. Now here, the Parliament, now what is the use of Parliament? They have lost their empire. What is the use of Parliament? Formerly they had to rule all over the world. So representative, Parliament... Now they have got... What they have got? But still they have got the Parliament, the bodyguard, the King, Queen. Show only. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this so-called advancement of civilization has no meaning. Simply waste of time.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Animals.

Lord Brockway: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That means they have no right understanding of universal brotherhood.

Lord Brockway: No. With that I agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the use of talking of universal brotherhood when you actually do not treat like that?

Lord Brockway: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But that is due to his lack of God consciousness. He'll talk very high words, but practically he cannot do it.

Śyāmasundara: No information.

Prabhupāda: Yes, no information. Just like the commu... Even in communist country. They, they are thinking that national, everything should be national. So what is the meaning of national? Means any living entity born in that country is national. So why the poor animals are not nationals? That is, means lack of God consciousness. He does not know. He thinks simply human being national.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: But he had a false religious experience, due to the LSD.

Prabhupāda: No, I am talking generally, not of him, that everything must be, there must be division. Just like naturally we have got division. The whole object is to keep the body fit, but there is division: the head division, the arm division, the stomach division, and the leg division. So similarly, there must be four classes of men in the society: the intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men, and the laborer class of men. Everything is required. But not that the intelligent class of man has to learn the business of the laborer class of men. That is not required. Just try to understand. The laborer class of men, they are required. But one who is intelligent class, he, he cannot be trained up as laborer, ordinary laborer in the factory. That is mistake. He must work according to his capacity. If he's intelligent, he must be preacher, he must be God conscious. He would educate people that "This eating, sleeping is not all. There is God. You should understand. You have got a relationship with Him. If you want to have better life next, then you must become God conscious, you must be sinless." These things are required in the society. (loud noise of jet going over). What is the use of talking?

Mother: Father, I understand that you have translated ten books.

Prabhupāda: Now again. Again the same question.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The metaphysical search... Now metaphysically search out why do you deny soul in the human being, uh, in the animals? That is metaphysical. It is metaphysical question. What is your metaphysical study about the living, uh, animals that you say there is no soul? Come to the metaphysical then. You are thinking metaphysically. That's all right. But if you are still thinking like animal, then what is the use of your metaphysical studies? If you are thinking like the animals: "Where shall I get my food? Where shall I take shelter? Where shall I have sexual facility? How shall I defend?" If you are thinking like that, this is animal thinking. Metaphysical thinking means beyond this, beyond this thinking of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is metaphysical thinking. So what you are thinking beyond that? That is God consciousness. When a human being thinks about God, that is metaphysical. When he thinks like animals about eating, sleeping, mating and defending, that is not metaphysical. Metaphysical. What do you mean by metaphysical? How to define? What is the meaning of "meta"? Above physical. That means spiritual. So if you think spiritually, then you'll see. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa claims: sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). "In all forms of life, the living entities are there, and they are My sons." So this is metaphysical, or if some third-class man says that there is no soul in the animal, that is metaphysical? Which one is metaphysical? Kṛṣṇa speaking will be metaphysical, or a third-class fool's statement will be taken as metaphysical? Which one is metaphysical? First of all say me.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That means... these rascals, they have simply imperfect knowledge. Still, they are leader. That is our protest. That why you become leader? You have got so many imperfections. Why you are cheating people? That is our protest. You have no perfect knowledge. Still, you become leader. Why? Why you are cheating men like that? Just like the professor who was speaking that by four, combination of four chemicals, life has come. And as soon as he was challenged that: "If I give you these four chemicals, whether you can produce life?" He said: "That I cannot say." Then what is the use of speaking like that? So they're cheating, and people are being cheated. Still, they're given Nobel Prize. "Oh, here is a big man." They'll talk all nonsense. At, at the same time, they'll become professor, teacher. And people will accept. So at least let us protest against this system.

Bhagavān: Guru-gaurāṅga, that kīrtana's too loud downstairs. There was a professor who came to see you in London, the religion professor.

Haṁsadūta: Professor Hardin.

Bhagavān: When he said that: "Many times, my students ask me questions that I do not know. So I try to answer." But you said: "If you do not know, you should not teach." You said: "Our philosophy is that if you do not know, you should step down." He said: "I cannot do that."

Prabhupāda: He's getting salary, money. No sincerity.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So we are not asking in that way. We are asking, "What is that ultimate goal?" (break)

Yogeśvara: ...ultimately, by following a process that the Rosicrucian order gives its students, one reaches the goal.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Suppose if I am going to London. So unless I am interested to go to London, what is the use of knowing how to go to London?

Yogeśvara: Their students feel the need for this ultimate perfection and that's why they come to the movement.

Prabhupāda: But if he does not know what is ultimate perfection, this is bogus.

Yogeśvara: (break) ...realization of God.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like if I say that "If you do like this, you can make one million dollars." But you know what is the value of one millions dollars; then you endeavor. But if we don't know what is that one million dollars, why should we endeavor?

Yogeśvara: No, he said, all of their students, they know the value of realizing God in their heart.

Prabhupāda: How do they know? How do they know?

Yogeśvara: There are already people who are aspiring after a richer, more spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: What is that spiritual life?

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God. We accept him śaktyāveśa avatāra, a living entity especially powered from God. That we can accept. So son of God we can accept. That is another thing. And where is the evidence in the śāstras that God was killed? Big, big giant, God fought them and killed them. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa. Very, very great giant and demon. God was never killed by them. Is it not? Yes. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that: "What is this material power. My father was so materially strong. Even demigods and Indra, Candra, they were afraid. And He killed him within a moment. So what is the use of this material power?" And the God could not kill these crucifiers? As soon as they attempted to kill, there would have, He has, would have fought. He had to show some power. And they say that he agreed to take all our sin, and he crucified. Is it not? They say?

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So imperfect senses can give imperfect knowledge. That is not scientific knowledge. What you are thinking scientific knowledge, that is bogus. Because the man who has given that knowledge, he's imperfect. How you can expect perfect knowledge from the imperfect person?

Guest (2): It's a question of degree.

Prabhupāda: Now, degree may be, but ultimately, if you are unable to give perfect knowledge, then what is the use of taking knowledge from you?

Guest (2): Yes, I accept that view. But how do you prove that a man...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore you take from the perfect, Kṛṣṇa. We take from Kṛṣṇa's representative. One who speaks as good as Kṛṣṇa. That is our process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We don't take, don't accept knowledge from any rascal. We accept knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. I may be rascal, but because I am receiving knowledge from the perfect, whatever we speak, that is perfect. A child may be innocent he does not know. But he has learned that this article is called spectacle. So when he says, the child says, "Father, this is spectacle." This is perfect knowledge. Similarly, if you hear from the perfect and act accordingly, then you are perfect. Now Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. After death there is another body. So we accept it. It doesn't require any proof of so-called science who's imperfect.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is our Vedic evidence. Whenever we speak something, immediately quote from Vedas. This is our process. If it is accepted by the Vedic process, then it is perfect. Just like in the law court. You are lawyer. You are arguing. When you quote from a judgement, previous judgement, it is accepted. Similarly, when you give authoritative statement support of your talking, then it is perfect. That is the way. Otherwise, what for these books are there? If it is mental speculation what is the use of these books? But as soon as we speak something, we immediately support by quoting from Vedic literature. And that is perfect. And now you have to possess little knowledge. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, how Kṛṣṇa is perfect. Kṛṣṇa is giving example side, by side. Yathā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, as there is the soul, there is the soul, asmin dehe, and he's having different types of bodies, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. He's changing body from childhood, boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, youth-hood to another state. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Where is the illogical presentation? This is scientific. For an intelligent man, this is scientific. And if he's still dull-headed, then what can be done? Kṛṣṇa gives example. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. As the soul is changing body, from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, like that. Similarly, after finishing this body, it may be invisible to you, but the subtle body is there. We have got two kinds of bodies. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4).

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That I do not know.

Guest (1): Are they going to worship there? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Well, they do not believe in astrology. Therefore they cannot take any step. They do not believe in next life, so they cannot take any step. And whether it is a fact or not, because they do not believe in next life, so what is the use of taking step? Is it as good as to say that Jawaharlal Nehru has become Indra. If somebody says like that, so they'll have to discard this thing also, and they have to discard that thing also. Because they do not believe in the next life. Simply by presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we can defy all these rascals. Everything is there. Bhagavad-gītā was not presented as it is. That is the defect. The first thing is: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands. And they are students of Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he did not understand, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. All these political leaders, they do not understand what is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. What do you think, Bhadra Kṛṣṇa? The dehāntara-prāptiḥ, do they understand?

Bhadra Kṛṣṇa: It's not something known.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not understand.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But we are concerned with the real life. We are consider, concerned with the real life. If you can produce one real life, a small ant, not human being, then I shall think that you are successful in your program. But that you cannot do. Why do you talk nonsense? Therefore you are cheating. Why should he say: "That I cannot say," if he's not confident. That means cheating. Everyone is doing that. He's not confident about his theory, and he's speaking long, long speech. And people are fools. They are hearing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is leading many blind man. What is the benefit? The leader has no eyes, and he's leading many blind men. What is the use?

Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: It is a question of taste. Just see birds, two kinds of birds, crows and the swans, different taste. Therefore we are trying to create taste for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then these crows' place, newspaper, we'll not... We don't read newspaper. We don't touch it unless there is some news of ours. We don't touch it. What is the use of wasting time? They read so big, big bundle of newspaper. But we don't touch them. Oh, we have got (indistinct) literature here. Why should we waste our time in the crows' manifestation? The same politics, same Nixon, same Dixon, same Hitler. It is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Things which have already been chewed and thrown away, another person is crying, "Let me see if there's any juice." But you have already chewed. What juice you find there? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), again and again, same politics, same new leader, same he's a rascal. Just like Nixon advertises in news, "America now requires Nixon." So America accepted him and now America doesn't want him. Again another Nixon will come. This is going on, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, chewing the chewed. The people are not disgusted but we have tasted all these rascals. Why another Nixon?

Dr. Hauser: There doesn't seem to be any accumulation of knowledge.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): Some devotees want the body again and again...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee... Because people want perfection. But their perfection is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Their perfection is not to stop this body. But the... Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he's not living in this material world. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Anyone who's engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, he's transcendental to these material qualities. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). (break) ...and then, after leaving this body, you are not going to accept any material body. And as soon as you accept a material body, you are under pains and pleasure. No pleasure, simply pains. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are trying to avoid pains. But it is not possible. The real pain, birth, death, old age and disease, that remains. What is the use of temporary getting some so-called pleasure?

Guest (3): At what stage could one say that a person is Kṛṣṇa conscious? There must be a beginning stage...

Prabhupāda: He has no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So anyway, that is the danger, keeping a separate department for money collecting. Then it will turn: "Collect money, eat nicely and sleep nicely." And to live in the temple, at least, one is forced to rise early in the morning, take bath, to have darśana. They'll get regulated life. Therefore this temple worship is needed because we are so impure. So at least, in temple, by following the regulative principles, we can keep ourself pure. Otherwise simply chanting is sufficient. There is no need of constructing big, big temples. But we are so impure... That is Jīva Gosvāmī's, recommended that as soon as we give up this temple worship method, regulative principles, then we become, in the dress of so-called, we become victim of māyā. Veśopajīvaka. They are working and doing some business, and then our dress will be a means of business. This will be also another material business. Actually they are doing so. So that is the danger of keeping a separate department. What is the use? We have got jeeps?

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So brāhmaṇas are addressed as "paṇḍitjī." He was paṇḍita. He was very learned scholar in Sanskrit and Parsee, Urdu. But he admitted his fault, that "Everyone calls me as paṇḍitjī, but I am such a paṇḍita that I do not know what I am. This is my 'paṇḍitjī.' Therefore I have come to inquire from You what I am." That is brahma-jijñāsā. Nobody knows in this material world what he is. Everyone is thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am woman," "I am man." This is their... is their... They do not know. Brahma-jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā means first to know one's self, self-realization, "what I am." And in the Bhagavad-gītā the first reply is given there. This brahma-jijñāsā. Because Arjuna was puzzled. He was thinking that "My kinsmen, my grandfather, my brothers, they are this skin, this body." So he was thinking, "If I kill my grandfather, my brother on the other side, what is the use of this fight? I do not like." But he was thinking in bodily concept of life. This is the position of everyone. Everyone is in the bodily concept of life. Therefore the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The asmin dehe, in this body, there is the soul. He is the proprietor. So this life should be, education means one should be advanced in education to inquire about himself, that is brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. And as soon as there is question of jijñāsā, then there must be somebody else from whom to inquire. Therefore śāstra says that when you are jijñāsu, when you are inquisitive... Inquisitive of what? Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Śreyas. Here we are also jijñāsu, we are going to the market; "What is the rate of this share? What is the rate of this commodity? What is the rate of rice? What is...?" We are also jijñāsu. But śāstra says jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam: "One must be inquiring about the highest perfection of life." That is human life.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is a lot of politics in it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. As soon as you go against the standard rules and regulations, there must be some motive. That is politics. That is politics. All politicians, they are with motive. They are not for... Now, all these big, big political parties, they are fighting with one another. They are simply trying to keep their post and they are fighting for that. So where is the time for them to think of the general people, how they will be happy? There is no time. It is the Kṛṣṇa conscious people who are actually thinking of others. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava qualification is he is unhappy by seeing others... (break) Let us enlighten them. Otherwise what is the use of working in this old age? (Aside:) Come on. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Because without God consciousness, without understanding "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship," everyone shall remain unhappy. There cannot be happiness. Without knowledge of God, nobody can be happy. Superficially they may try, so-called humanitarianism, this ism, that ism. Now, say for these Communists country, they have struggled for the last sixty years. They started from 1917. How many years?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Seventy.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. (break) ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gītā proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhāgavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhāgavatam's statement. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to stop death, live eternally with Kṛṣṇa, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement. So our guru gives us this opportunity, no more death. Tyaktvā... After leaving this body, you don't accept any more material body. And if you don't accept material body, then there is no death. As soon as your spiritual, you remain in spiritual body, there is no death. There is no birth also. Death is concomitant where birth is there. If the death is stopped, then there is no birth. And if there is no birth, there is no disease, there is no old age. This is the process. So birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you don't like to be Kṛṣṇa conscious then what is the use of becoming your disciple, and if the guru, if he cannot stop your death, birth and death, then what is your becoming guru? So 'mṛtatvāya kalpate. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha. Find out this verse. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Havoc, create havoc. Just as they are doing now. All rascals, they are very busy.

Yaśomatīnandana: Creating atom bombs.

Prabhupāda: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ugra-karmāṇaḥ kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the śūdras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?

Devotee: I'm not sure, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: The followers of Guru Maharaji, the so-called...

Prabhupāda: Well, don't talk of Guru Maharaji. He's a rascal. What is the use of talking about him?

Umāpati: They say that...

Prabhupāda: They say! They are fools and rascals. We are not concerned.

Umāpati: (too faint)

Hṛdayānanda: Oh, this way, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What do they say?

Bali Mardana: They have no philosophy. It is useless to discuss.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is nonsense. A set of nonsense.

Umāpati: If we ask them what is the basis of their philosophy that they understand Maharaji to be a seer...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are trying to make it.

Prabhupāda: Again "trying." It is already there. What is the use of your trying? The same thing. Already dog is barking, but one is trying to imitate. That's all. But people will go to see the imitation barking by purchasing ticket, and the real barking they'll neglect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is called, "new discovery."

Prabhupāda: What is that new discovery? Barking is already there. What is new discovery? You are simply imitating barking, that's all. Barking is already there. What is discovery?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But that imitation is just new.

Prabhupāda: No. Imitation is flattery. That's all. Imitation is the best way of flattery. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But what is your superiority. You're a servant now. You're śūdra. You're not even a brāhmaṇa. Superiority by simply explanation will not do. You must be (indistinct). Guṇa, karma, superiority means guṇa, karma. You must have the quality and you must work in that quality. You're a scientist, but after a few generation, a foolish boy in your family say, "We belong to the scientist's family." So what is the use of saying like that? You must become scientist. When you are a scientist then you are superior not by simply... This has killed the Indian, I mean Vedic culture when they began to claim superiority simply by birth without any qualification. That killed the whole civilization.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that successful?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they have gone to the moon. So that was a direct...

Prabhupāda: That you are not successful. You live there. What is the use of going there?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They wanted to know what is going on there.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is another rascaldom. What is going on... There are so many things going on. So you have to spend money for going all to the planets, what they are doing, or... Only for that?

Karandhara: They haven't taken care of business here.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Just see...

Karandhara: They haven't taken care of things here.

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascaldom is going on. What is the use of our going there? "Things are going on..." Suppose in another state, something is going on. So are you interested? Going... Let them go. What is the benefit out of it? You spend so much money, public. Simply to see. "There is a crack." Last conclusion: "There was a crack." Just see how they are spoiling hard-earned public money. Because there is no good leader, all these rascals are benefiting, taking their money, and enjoying, and giving bluff information to the public. This should be stopped. Immediately this should be stopped.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "New frontier of knowledge."

Prabhupāda: Yes, because the new frontier of knowledge for the rascals not for the intelligent men. They're... The same example. If somebody imitates barking of the dog, if he says, "This is new frontier of knowledge," so a foolish man can believe that "How you have learned to bark like dog! Oh, great advancement." But an intelligent man says "What is the use of this barking, imitation barking? There is already dogs who are barking." Just like there is a... It is a fact, not story. One man, he went out of his village, and after ten years, he came back, advertised himself that "I have become successful in yoga practice." So naturally villagers surrounded him. "Oh, you have...? What yoga practice you have learned?" "I can walk on the water." "Oh?" Actually, even at the present moment, if somebody comes and says, "I can walk...," many people will come, thousands of men. So when everything, arrangement was that he'll cross the river, walking on the water, one old man came. He said, "Sir, it is very wonderful, but it is two paise worth. Two paise worth." "Why?" "Now, you will walk and go the other side; I'll take a boat, pay him two paise. I'll do the same thing. So what is your credit?" So those who are actually intelligent men, they will take like that, that "What actual profit you have made? You have spent millions and millions of dollars, and you say, 'Now, we have seen in the moon there is a crack.'

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see? That we are giving some shelter. Everything should be reformed, political, social, and be, you American nation—you're favored nation, that I am always speaking; you should utilize the favor of God and be yourself perfect—and be leader of the whole world. Anyone who is not believer in God, he should be punished. Because he's animal. He is animal, and he is posing himself as human being. Cheater. Human life is meant for tapasya, for understanding God. That is human life. This dog's life, cat's life, this is not human life. If you become a very powerful tiger, is that human life? They're thinking like that. "If I become as strong as a tiger, then there we are perfect nation." Then what is the use of tiger? It is simply kill only. What other intelligence he has got? So in your country there are so many things to be done. I give you the idea, now you take the leaders. (break) Rascal. Sentimental. Be yourself leader. (break) ...you give up all this material advancement. But there must be Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is their... But... Church means... Because they've seen church is useless.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now here is scientific church. They refuse to take advice from the church because at the present moment church is a bogus thing. So what is the use of taking advice from them?

Hṛdayānanda: That was actually... That was actually the reason they made that separation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: They became disgusted with the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It's simply, we can say, what is called? Stereotype, the church. Just like you said they want more pay. Payment... They have no knowledge, so what is the use of taking advice from such rascals? What is the use? But here it is not like that. We know the science of God. We know who is God. It is not a vague thing. Now you try to understand. Let there be educational institution. America has got so many universities. Let there be a department. There is already a religious department. So let the students learn the science of God. We have got so many books. Why they will not? They are actually appreciating. So this should be introduced in the university, in colleges, in schools. Why they should neglect such a, such an important scientific knowledge?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: So he says that "You take the knowledge. You see the light, and you take the knowledge from Guru Maharaji."

Prabhupāda: But you have taken the knowledge, why cannot you describe it. That means although you have got your Guru Maharaja, still you are in darkness. So what is the use of this Guru Maharaja? You are in darkness because you cannot explain. You're asking me to go to Guru Maharaja. But if you are enlightened, why you cannot explain? Therefore you are in darkness. They are useless as guru. You have not... He's a garu. He's garu.

Yaśomatīnandana: Garu is mad, crazy.

Prajāpati: They claim to see light inside, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but we say, "If we hit you on head, you will see light inside also."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that everyone sees. What is your credit? If I kick on your face, you will find the light. So come here, I shall kick on your face and you'll see the light. (laughter) There is no need of Guru Maha...

Yaśomatīnandana: His disciples are usually very naive and very foolish.

Prabhupāda: Unless they are foolish, how they can go there? Anyone who goes there, that means he is a foolish. That is the test. "A man is known by his company." Because all these rascals and fools go there, therefore he is a fool and rascal. It is concluded.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to stop spread of communism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, now America has to do the same thing to stop demonism. Then your nation will be leader. You understand; you have trust in God. Now it is your business to trust in real God and work for Him. You cannot... I have explained already. You cannot stop communism. You have to stop demonism. That is your real business. Communism is another type of demonism. So if you remain a demon, so what is the use of stopping another demonism? The same example: stool, the upside is dried up. You cannot say, "Because it is upside of stool, it is better side." Stool is stool. Guer ei pita en opita. (?) (dog barking loudly) Come on. That's all right. He cannot make the condition of the world better by... Just like Professor Kotofsky. He was saying that there must be revolution. I was talking of authority. So the authority you must have to accept. So he said that authority is accepted upon revolution.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Should also this be the responsibility of the government to protect people from having to take dog body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the government's duty, that the citizens may not degrade. That is government's duty. Now, just like a father thinks, "Now, these children have come under my protection. I must see they get proper education and make advancement of life." It is the father's duty. And if the father thinks, "Let him go to hell." That's all. Nowadays fathers are doing like that. That is not father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that the citizen must make progress. But they do not know what is means by progress, what is the aim of life. They do not know. They are demonic. How they will guide? They think, like cats and dogs, "If you get fatty and you can eat more, then your life is successful." Their thinking is very poor. Simply physical strength, they think that is success. But he does not think that physical, the elephant has physical strength so much, the tiger has physical strength so much, but what is the use of their life? After all, it is an animal. But they are thinking like that, "If you get strength like an elephant or like tiger, then your life is successful." They're thinking like that. But because they do not know what is the aim of life, what is the goal of life. A dog does not know what is the aim of life. But even if I say that "This is the aim of life," it will not understand because the body is different. But a human being can understand. Therefore there are so many books of knowledge. So if they do not get proper knowledge, that means they are missing the point. (break) ...tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam: "So long one does not come to the point of understanding the spirit soul, whatever he is doing he is being defeated because the main point is missing." Like cats and dogs he is accepting this material body as self, and he is working on that platform. Therefore his life is being spoiled. (break) Our mission is to save human being from being spoiled like animals. That is our mission. The greatest humanitarian work.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Jayatīrtha: Because people cannot understand them, so Guru Maharaji has simply come and making it very simple. He just makes them see the light and then everything is simple. They don't have to do anything else.

Prabhupāda: And what is the benefit of seeing that light? He has to work, he has to search out for food. So what is the benefit by seeing the light? By seeing the light, has he become freed from all this botheration? Then what is the use of that light he has seen?

Hṛdayānanda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59).

Prabhupāda: Nivartate.

Prajāpati: They say the benefit of the light is that light is God. So when they see that light, that is God. So that is the benefit.

Prabhupāda: No. When you see light, you must know there is a source of light. Just like you are seeing the light and the light is there. Therefore there must be a source of the light. Unless you see Him, it is not perfect. Besides that, whether you have seen actually the light? What is the result of seeing that light? Do they explain? Suppose he has seen. I have not seen. So what is the difference between him and me?

Jayatīrtha: Unless the heart becomes purified, there is no sense in seeing any light. The heart has to become cleansed.

Hṛdayānanda: They say they will be happier than someone who has not seen the light. Their life will have more meaning.

Prabhupāda: So happier, they are becoming happier in so many other ways. What is the use of seeing the light?

Jayatīrtha: The pigs are also happy.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha: (break) ...will be overthrown and replaced with God conscious beings.

Prabhupāda: No. I am not talking of any government. We are not in politics. We are talking of preaching. Why? Why this government should you try to change. Where is the better replacement? First of all find out the better replacement. Then you talk of changing. Where is the better replacement? To replace one rascal with another, that is not... Now democratic government, if the people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then naturally their leader will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. So automatically it will change. There is no question of violence. What is the use? Now, suppose by violence you become the president of the United States. Will you be able to do something?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: No.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use? Because under democratic government, your order is not final. So if the people are demons, then what you will do? You cannot do anything. Therefore the people's mentality, consciousness, should be changed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. When they become God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will select Kṛṣṇa conscious president. Then everything finished. Formerly people used to accept the king as the final authority, but at this present moment, that is not accepted. People must accept. Now it is people's government. So unless people are God conscious, you cannot find good government. In comparison to other governments, your government is far better. People here (are) not starving.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: In the economy itself there isn't actually enough money to, that's even in the banks...

Prabhupāda: That is cheating. Therefore I say cheating. I have no money. I give you simply paper. I promise to pay hundred dollars. What is the use of that promise if I have no money? But you want to be cheated. I cheat you. That's all. You are satisfied of being cheated by me; so I take the advantage and I cheat you. I give you a paper. That's all.

Bahulāśva: Real money is gold and silver.

Prabhupāda: Any... It must be value. According to the market price, it must be value. Whatever it may be. Gold is taken, because gold is the most valuable metal. A small piece of gold, it can carry two hundred dollars. But if I give you iron, then you have to bring another, what is called, bus, to carry it. (laughter) So therefore gold standard is accepted everywhere. There is a standard price of gold, so when I pay you money, it must be, carry the value in gold. That's all. Then there is no inflation. The people want to be cheated, and people cheat. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So why don't you answer them, "Yes, you become a dog, but you become a dog of a good master." What is the use of becoming dog of another dog? Then what profit will be there? Is it not? We are... Actually every one of us is dog. And we are trying to satisfy so many masters. The masters are our senses. We are already dog, everyone, because everyone is servant of the senses, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. So everyone is dog. Now he has to remain a dog, but by becoming dog of these senses, he is not happy. Find out a good master, and become a dog. You become happy. This is our philosophy. And the best master is Kṛṣṇa. We are also trying to be dog, but not of another dog, but real master. That is our philosophy. What is the use of becoming a dog of another dog? That is not proper. Here the material world is that "I am dog, I have got a master, and the master has got another master. He has got another master, he has got another master." Nobody can say that "I am Absolute." Nobody can say. That is not possible. You must have a master. Therefore everyone is a dog. So why don't you find out the Absolute master, the biggest master? And that is God. "God is great." Capture Him, master. Then you will be happy. That is intelligence. When one comes to his senses, that "I have served so many masters. Neither the master has become happy, neither I have become happy." That is frustration. Everyone. The master is not happy. You serve any master. Ask him, "Are you satisfied?" And, "What you have done, that I will be satisfied? You have to do so many things." So he is not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. Then to become dog of this ordinary master will never give us satisfaction. Always frustration. Just become the dog of the supreme master. You will be happy. Supreme master is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Mahāprabhu. Prabhu means master. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name, Mahāprabhu, "the supreme master."

Viṣṇujana: He is easily pleased.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. (end)

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Devotee: It is like wet stool and dry stool. It is still stool.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. (Chuckles) Yes, that is the example. The dry part of the stool, they say, "Oh, this part is very nice." He forgets that, after all, it is stool. So what is the dry or moist? Just like they are making scientific advancement. But the death is there. So what is the use of your advancement or no advancement? One who has not advanced in science, he'll also die. And you'll also die, advanced. Then what is the good? You cannot protect yourself from death. Then what is the meaning of this "good"? "This is good. This is advancement, and this is not advancement."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the distinction, the good and bad...

Prabhupāda: That is your distinction. You have made such distinction.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Some 30th or 31st April. So if the government wants prayer, why they have prohibited in the schools? This is contradiction. Point out. This law was introduced due to inexperience. Now they are coming to experience that it has not helped us. Therefore they are introducing prayer. So why don't you take it?

Umāpati: We should ride with that. We should try to get in on that.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise what is the use of introducing prayer again? They have experienced that this without prayer, things have failed. That's a fact. You take this point.

Umāpati: Yes. The schools are falling apart. Delinquency and there's lots of criminal activity amongst the children in school. And even the teachers are walking out of the classrooms because of the violence in the schools and the lack of communication with their students.

Prabhupāda: No, in India, in examination hall there is regularly police. Regularly. I have seen it. So what is the value of this education? There is regular police. Now there is no ordinary guard.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In fact some people get killed. During the examination hall, people get killed.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: Is that an example of free will, that someone can choose Kṛṣṇa and then turn away? That example of free will?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: (BG 9.14) "Always chanting about Me." That is mahātmā. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: (BG 9.13) "Mahātmā, those who are devotee, they are not under these material influence." Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: "the spiritual influence." So how he's accepted Kṛṣṇa? By his own concoction? He... If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Bali Mardana: ...that the disciple should not let outsiders touch the feet of his spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bali Mardana: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, in the purport. But in India so many people try to touch. Should they be restrained?

Prabhupāda: No, that is... Spiritual master should be respected. Where it is said that?

Nitāi: The Seventeenth Chapter, one purport where it talks about a brāhmaṇa woman who came to touch the feet of Lord Caitanya; immediately He went and jumped in the Ganges. You remember that section?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is... He's not a devotee. He's not a, he was not a disciple.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who has got this material body, he is not well. He may be possessing very stout and strong body, but he's not well. Because death is there. So well or no well, you have to meet death. So where is, where is the use of your...

Dr. Patel: What is this death? If you say, "You meet death," then you are a Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no, no. I am speaking... I am answering your "well" and "not well." That's it. When there is death, then what is the use of calling "well" and "not well"?

Dr. Patel: "Well" and "not well," that's right.

Prabhupāda: That is my point. If you can avoid death, disease, old age, then you are well. You cannot avoid all these things. You must become old man, you must die, you must be diseased; where is the meaning of this well? It is simply concoction. (break) Where is happiness? Where is well-being? That they do not know. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. That they do not know. Just like a man lying on sick bed, and some friends come, "How are you?" "Yes, today I am well." What is this "well"? You are lying on the sick bed, hospital, and you are speaking, "Yes, I am well." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. There is no "well." So long you are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease, there is no question of "well." When you can avoid these things, then you are well. (break) ...but our independence. What is that independence? No rice, no geha. What is this independence? (break) (Hindi) "godless civilization" saba boka mare hai, bās. (break) ...take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, everything is false. You cannot escape. (Hindi) The death is there. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). So at the end everything will be taken away by Kṛṣṇa in the form of death. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. (japa) Everyone, especially the karmīs, they think that they will live forever.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it, that you cannot get. Oh, you have done so much. But India is not meant for machine. These rascals, they do not know. India is, India's culture is plain living, high thinking. You require some food. Produce food, and take it, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But they'll not accept, "Oh, this is primitive. Nowadays we have got... We must have the motor car, motor tire."

Devotee: Farmer sees that a job of three hundred rupees and runs away to city. He will not work in the field. Then there will be no food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they require. They require. The cow is being killed, and that's all. That is sufficient food for them." And let the farmers work for me, for bolts and nuts and motor tire. We make huge profit." You see. You are making profit, but other...

Devotee: What is the use of that profit, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, when don't get even for eating, no clothing, no eating? Only profit... What profit will be beneficial?

Prabhupāda: No, but they don't care for others. But they're having wine and women with their black market money. That's all. They're satisfied. They do not know... (end)

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is leadership. That is leadership. The... Which man is fitted for which work.

Ātreya-ṛṣi: Yes. Utilization of all resources...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya-ṛṣi: ...including devotees and funds and everything.

Prabhupāda: Then... The first thing is that we should see that everyone is engaged. How he should be engaged, that requires leadership. But the first business is to engage everyone. Nobody should be without engagement. Then it will be idle worse, works... What do you call? Idle brain is devil's workshop. And the devil is kāminī-kāñcana, woman and money. This is devil. So if you remain idle, then you shall think of devil. So we should see that everyone is engaged properly. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...instruction in this connection is very important. Everyone should be trained as Vaiṣṇava. At the same time, he should work in different position for management. So if our men are not prepared—Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja—for doing the plowing work, then what is the use of purchasing land?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are not prepared.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are not prepared.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are against religion. But actually, if we show that we are producing, we are managing, we are educating, then we can counteract the communist tendency. But they are seeing that, that escaping. They say, "They escape responsibility of worldly life and they're indulging in some religious..." That is the tendency. All... Everywhere the government is complaining like that. Therefore they do not want to increase the number of temples, increase the number of devotees. They do not want. Because they say, "These are a class of idle men. They cannot do anything, and they take to this religious life." That is the tendency. They are feeling like that. But if you show that you are actually doing something ideal, then they will appreciate. Make a small unit of community and show ideal life, not idle life. Ideal life. Then this mis... That... Now in Bombay, they have refused. Because they are under the impression that "They, these Europeans have come here under some sentiment, and what is the use?" They have taken some plea and rejected our... (break) ...is there. As we are making counterpropaganda against māyā, the māyā is also very strong.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Letchmore Heath.

Devotee: Yeah?

Prabhupāda: So much, lying vacant. They have taken it into consideration that "What is the use of working in the land? Better kill one animal and eat easily." Because he doesn't care for sinful activities. The... "If I can eat the cow, why shall I take so much trouble to till the...?" This is going on, all over the world.

Indian man: Employment means now just to cut the money and not to work. No work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) The same... Employment, even for the woman, the carakā. You see? Gandhi also studied this. There must be... Woman should be engaged for weaving. What is called?

Devotee: Spinning.

Prabhupāda: Spinning, yes. Everyone should be engaged. That is management. So all GBC members must see that in every temple, everyone is engaged.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Madhudviṣa: Wouldn't that indicate that a preacher is higher than a worker?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is preaching, this is preaching. You help. Suppose you are preaching, and if I help you... Just like I'm preaching, you're helping. You are also preaching.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Also this building is preaching.

Prabhupāda: This is also preaching. So it is not that preaching means simply talking. Preaching means everything. The construction is also preaching. The designing is also preaching. Everything is... Otherwise what is the use of spending so much money if it is not preaching?

Devotee: Jaya.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah. (break) Everything that has to do with propagating Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa sends spiritual master, His representative, as you can appreciate, externally, directly. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is already spiritual master. He could give you instruction from the very beginning. But why He is sending His representative? What is the use?

Harikeśa: We're not able to...

Prabhupāda: Ah, because unless we are completely purified, Kṛṣṇa will, does not talk directly. Therefore you have to understand Kṛṣṇa through the spiritual master.

Harikeśa: So when we are having doubts, the only possible way, no matter what the indications are, are simply follow your instructions in all circumstances.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: Right. (break)

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa wanted instruction of guru, not directly.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I don't make any compromise with these rascals. No words. No, no. I never made that. Even if I don't get any disciples, I'll be satisfied. But I can't make any compromise like these rascals. I cannot make. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasrasaḥ. If I create one moon, that is sufficient. I don't want many stars. That was my Guru Mahārāja's principle, and that is my principle. What is the use of having number of fools and rascals? If one man understands rightly, he can deliver the whole world. (break)

Guest (3): Do you mean the other persons...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Own one who cannot understand rightly. That is another rascaldom.

Dr. Patel: Understanding God is always supraconscious with them. Never by the mind.

Prabhupāda: They... One has to rise, rise... understand rightly from the right person. He cannot. He's imperfect. How he can understand rightly?

Dr. Patel: Yes, that's right.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Again that disease. It has become a disease.

Guest (5): No, I want to ask you. Is that called puṇya?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Guest (5): Serving the poor?

Prabhupāda: What is the use of your serving poor? Are you serving the poor? Why do you talk like that?

Guest (5): I want to ask you.

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, are you serving the poor?

Guest (5): Yes, sir. I am a doctor. And we see only poverty. So I want to ask.

Prabhupāda: Then, then every... So every patient is a poor, and every doctor is puṇyavān.

Dr. Patel: Ha, every doctor is a fool. Like me.

Guest (5): No, I want to ask you. Swamiji...

Dr. Patel: Swami, Swami answered.

Prabhupāda: This has become a slogan, "Serving the poor." Where is the śāstra? Where Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Serving the poor?"

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That brain will require three hundred years. Your brain having developed, then you will understand.

Dr. Patel: I have developed, brain is already developed fifty... (break)

Prabhupāda: (angrily) No, you said immediately What is the use of offering Nārāyaṇa in the temple..."

Dr. Patel: I did not say that!

Prabhupāda: Yes, you said.

Dr. Patel: I did... No, you have misunderstood! I said... I won't submit to wrong things. I will submit to right thing!

Prabhupāda: No, no. And that... But you do not know what is right thing. That is your fault.

Dr. Patel: Daridra-nārāyaṇa is a fact. In India. And I am going to uphold it!

Prabhupāda: Now, you see, you are prescribing that "Why they are offering in the temple?" "Why you are offering in the the temple? Why not the daridras?"

Dr. Patel: You must offer in the temple. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...does not mean his nārāyaṇa-seva is null and void because he cannot distribute to the poor.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Patel: ...life keeps the chemicals together. As soon as the life goes away, the chemicals dissolve.

Prabhupāda: Dissolve, yes. As a medical practitioner, you know. Where is chemical? Where is chemical? That is a fact.

Dr. Patel: Always fact.

Mr. Sar: So still we are researching it.

Prabhupāda: No...

Dr. Patel: There is no research...

Prabhupāda: That is... But when the fact is there, what is the use of your researching? When the fact is already there, what is the use of your so-called researching?

Guest (3): How can we see Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: That is being explained.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Mūrkhasya latoṣadhiḥ. It is very... (break) ...from this movement.

Dr. Patel: I have not read that letter.

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Patel: Which way it has come?

Prabhupāda: (break) ...barking, what is the use of arguing with him?

Dr. Patel: No, we have not read. I don't know how it came to our...

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...talking of this letter of commissioner.

Dr. Patel: Oh, commissioner. (break)

Prabhupāda: They, because today's Rāma Naumi, they're taking bath?

Dr. Patel: Yes, they are taking bath. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...says that "Why don't you go to the forest?"

Dr. Patel: But that somebody must have told you.

Prabhupāda: No, no. One of the important men. What is the name of that...?

Girirāja: Yogendrabhai.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: You come into altercation unnecessarily.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there must be paripraśna. There must be paripraśna. Paripraśna is required, but in submissiveness with reasoning, not like vagabonds, no. Paripraśna must be there. Now, after reading Bhagavad-gītā, if somebody says that "Here is an imitation God accepted," is that very nice thing? This should be discussed. Otherwise, if we stick to our original principle and go on reading Bhagavad-gītā three times a day, then what is the use? What is the use?

Dr. Patel: Shall I go ahead? (Sanskrit) (break)

Prabhupāda: Answer.

Dr. Patel: It will be unanswerable by me. I have to submit. Otherwise you may fire me unnecessarily and create trouble, and I create trouble for you.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I will not fire. I'll not fire. We are coming to reasoning. Without paripraśna, reasoning... Either you should accept that you should not, anyone, recommend any imitation...

Dr. Patel: We accept God what is written in the Bhagavad-gītā, all right, in toto.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if we are actually student of Bhagavad-gītā, we should accept it in total instead of deviating from that. That is my request. We are teaching that. Why one should deviate?

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, very short. Short mean their short. It may take little more time.

Girirāja: Now they have machines that when the person is in coma, the machines artificially keep the heart beating and the other processes...

Prabhupāda: Then heart beating will go on, either you apply machine or no machine. Heart beating. But when the heart stops, no machine can revive it. So what is the use of machine? But by nature's way when the heart beating will stop, no machine can help. That is not possible.

Girirāja: So the doctors face a dilemma, that they keep the heart going by the machine, but they don't know whether the patient is actually living or dead. So they are afraid to stop the machine. They don't know how to decide when to stop the machine.

Prabhupāda: But when they stop it...?

Girirāja: Then the patient is dead. (laughter)

Yaśomatīnandana: That is the modern science, so imperfect. They don't even know whether a person is live or dead.

Prabhupāda: What do they know? They know something, but everyone knows. Even the birds and beasts, they also know something.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Indian Man (1): No difficulty in understanding. Interpretation...

Prabhupāda: Why they should interpret? Interpretation is required when there is no understanding. If the matter is clearly understood, why interpretation? This is rascaldom. Everyone understands this is called glass. And what is the use of interpretation? Here is a glass. Everyone can understand. Or spectacle. No, no. This is meaning this. Why? If the thing is clearly understood, there is no question of interpretation. You cannot give. Suppose if you go to the court, if the thing is clearly understood that "This man has committed this criminal activity, he should be punished," so where is the difficulty? No. If somebody... "No no. This 'He should be punished' means not now, after three hundred years he should be punished." Is that interpretation? He should be punished immediately. That's all.

Indian Man (1): It's not like that. The material thing we can see from our...

Prabhupāda: You are material, not spiritual. You are a material fool. Why do you interpret foolishly?

Indian Man (1): There's no doubt about it.

Indian Man (2): According to their brain and knowledge, they must have...

Prabhupāda: That means rubbish brain, rubbish brain. You go, interpret and change the law. You go in the law court and you interpret in your own way. Can you interpret in the law court? "Sir, I have got a different interpretation." "Get out. Get out, rascal, from this..."

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (1): I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he was earning fifty-thousand rupees at that time, fifty years ago. What is the value, just see. He was earning and spending like anything, lavishly, and he was so bad associated that wine and woman was his paraphernalia. That's all. As soon as there will be case engaged the first order is that "You have to supply so many cases of wine and so many batches of prostitute." That was C.R. Dasa's condition, first condition. In the Mopaceel(?) court when he would be invited to plead, the first condition is this. Then his fees. So in this way he was living. But he gave up. On Congress Movement he gave up everything practiced, but he died within one year. Because he was living so luxuriously, all of a sudden he became a renouncer, he could not tolerate that. He died. Within one year he died. So therefore these ministers, they gave up all this luxurious life, became a mendicant. The question is how they lived? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna kan... Then gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtādhi-laharī-kallola-magnau sadā: They were fully absorbed in the thought of how Kṛṣṇa, and His pastimes with His gopīs. He was always absorbed. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. This is exhibition. When one becomes ecstatic, "Oh, now I have to do something for Kṛṣṇa," then he renounces everything. Only Kṛṣṇa. Only Kṛṣṇa's business. That is the test. That is the test. What is the use of spiritual advancement? Spiritual advancement means these material things given up. That is spiritual advancement. That is... The example is given, bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavoḥ viraktir anyatra syāt. As soon as one develops real bhakti, he will be averse to all these material things. That is the first sign.

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...advised and all the ācāryas advised, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's advised. Why should we go somewhere else? Take shelter of His lotus feet. That's all. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This is right conclusion. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). (break) Mahātmā, immediately by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. (break) A child, if he is informed, "God is everywhere," he will never understand what is God. He knows that God is there, that this God consciousness is there. So what is the use of educating him, "Oh, God is everywhere. You don't require to go to temple?" This is nonsense. It is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. He must know, "Here is God." He goes there, offer respect. All the children come. (break) ...a man, military man like Arjuna.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Can he be a general?

Prabhupāda: Mr. Sar.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for spreading the knowledge contained in the Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation. Bhagavad-gītā as it is. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). After understanding Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna affirmed, "Kṛṣṇa, You are Para-brahman, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Brahman... Every living entity is Brahman, or everything is Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. That is a fact. But Para-brahman is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is the Vedic version. He is the Supreme. So unless we accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme, what is the use of reading Bhagavad-gītā? So that we have to accept, and His instructions, as they are given, everything. Just like economic solution, there is in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). There is need of anna to feed the animals and the human being. Simply by passing resolution, conference, it will not do. You must produce anna so that animals and men, they may be fed sumptuously. They will get strength, then they can work for yajña. Yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ. In this way people can be happy.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I can understand that he is not very favorable. But still, you said that we hate Hindi. You have said like that. Don't say like that because there may be one... Because preaching means we have to preach amongst the rascals but you do not become rascal. He may be... (break) "...Who will read Hindi? You do not... Who will read Hindi? You can read Hindi, that's all. But who will read outside Hindi? Therefore, Guru Mahārāja..." This should have been the reply. "If there is good customers for Hindi reading, then we can write Hindi books. But nobody will read Hindi." That should have been the reply. Therefore we write in English. "Why Jawaharlal Nehru read his books in English? Why Dr. Radhakrishnan writes his books in English? He has not written a single book in Hindi. Why? Why he was president? Why he was prime minister? Why did you not criticize him?" That should have been replied, that "As soon as a book is written in English, it is for world reading. And if it is written in Hindi, who is going to read except a few people like you? Why still Indians, they are sending their children for education through English?" You know that? There are so many English medium school. Is it not? Yes. Why? Why they are anxious? So much agitation was made for studying Hindi, but then why India still, even in families they are talking in English? In Bombay they talk in English amongst family members. And any gentleman meets another gentleman—he talks in English. Why it has not been stopped? So actually Hindi has no effect and if we take international rule, what is the use of Hindi? Nobody will like to... And even here, even here in India, who is reading Hindi? Nobody is reading Hindi. It is compulsory in every province, Hindi? Not compulsory.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Satsvarūpa: The fact is you do not know who God is. You do not know how God works. So...

Prabhupāda: "No, I know in my own way."

Satsvarūpa: That is not sufficient. You should develop, become educated.

Prabhupāda: "But what is the use of it, having sufficiency? What is the distinction, that you have got sufficient love and therefore there is distin...?"

Satsvarūpa: Ah, I may not have sufficient love, but one who does, he'll increase every way...

Prabhupāda: "But then if you have no sufficient love, you cannot preach. Why you are preaching for me? You just show me example."

Akṣayānanda: You may be a very good example, but we see most of the Christians do not even follow the teachings. For example...

Prabhupāda: Here you have come to the real point. Here he has come to the point. That is the point. If you love God, then why you disobey His order? That means you do not love God. That is the real point. (break) ...is that you love God for getting something from Him. But we do not love God for getting something. This is another point. So the first point is this. This is very important point, that if you love God, why you are becoming disobedient to the orders of God? That is the most important point.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But the rascals, why they themselves do not, be not reformed? Protesting against degradation. Why you are degraded? What is that protest? You are degraded. You reform yourself. That they will not do. Protest against degradation. Are you not degraded? Are you pure? So what is the use of protesting? You reform yourself. They can protest in this way that our guardians, our government, they have degraded ourselves. But that's all right. But guardian is a fool, your father is a fool. But why you are remaining as a fool? That they will not an... If we say, "Now you come to us. We shall raise you from degradation," that they will not do. That they will not agree. Now go to them, all these students, that "You are thinking that you are degraded. So why you should be, mean dog...? Come on, we shall reform you. We shall give you the highest post, brahminical post. Give up these four principles." That they will not do. Will they do?

Akṣayānanda: No. One may come out of a thousand.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...everything is there, but centered around Kṛṣṇa. (break) Govinda viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitāṁ jagat sarvam. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Śūnyāyitāṁ jagat-sarvaṁ govinda viraheṇa me: "By Govinda's separation, whole world is void." You see? These are exhibited in the person of the...

Dr. Patel: That... (break)

Prabhupāda: "...Kṛṣṇa is gone, I shall die." This is govinda viraheṇa me. "Oh, what is the use of living if Kṛṣṇa is gone?"

Dr. Patel: He was just a boy of five, six, seven years. (break)

Girirāja: ...about a hundred hoods, how could Kṛṣṇa manage all of those hoods?

Prabhupāda: Oh, then you do not understand Kṛṣṇa. You are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa from your point of view. Kaliya may have unlimited number of hoods; still, Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself. That is Kṛṣṇa. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa from your standpoint of view.

Girirāja: So He did it, He expanded Himself.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: I suggested. (break)

Prabhupāda: For nothing. No, no, that is not possible. These are for the karmīs, bodily concept of life. If government has got so many hospitals, what is the use of opening a teeny hospital by us? Vivekananda policy—to collect money by school and hospital. So you can tell him that "At the present moment, we are concerned about the sanction of the building and temple. So when the building is there, then we can consider, not at the present moment. We require money. We collect for this purpose. We cannot divert attention for medicine and other things."

Indian Devotee (5): Actually I could gather that he just talked because he also said that we should train up some devotees to do bandage and other things like that.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, this is not.

Bhāgavata: We do all the work, and he gets advertised as a great charitable doctor.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Room Conversation -- May 20, 1974, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: Yes, and plant trees.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: Maybe we should do that.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we have to utilize the land; otherwise what is the use?

Gurudāsa: Of course.

Prabhupāda: Suppose we invest one lakh of rupees. One lakh rupees means 10,000 rupees per annum, almost 800, 900 rupees per month in interest. So we must utilize it. From this monetary point of view, because they get bank interest, people are not very interested in land.

Gurudāsa: But you can't eat money.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: You can't eat money.

Prabhupāda: Ultimately that is the... (break) ...somehow or other, but it must be properly utilized. Who will give me massage?

Devotee (2): Oh, Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: But they are saying they used all the wood for paper, so there's no more wood.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Paper you can make from grass, from cotton. So many other fibers. You don't require wood. You grow grass, sufficient quantity, and you make paper. Why should you publish so many rubbish literatures? Just like you were telling. The Times of India, the newspaper. (Sound of cars) This is the difficulty, walking on street. Therefore I wanted to go to the park. This is disturbance. So paper, if we don't produce unnecessary paper, there is no scarcity. From grass. You produce grass, huge quantity of grass, you will get paper. Cotton also. First-class paper. In India also, the rejected paper. From rejected paper you can get another paper also. But they throw it away in your country. Collect this rejected paper and again put it into paper. And why should you publish all rubbish literature? Simply publish Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā, that's all. What is the use of this newspaper, nonsense newspaper, huge, huge quantity? So everything will be nice provided you become ideal. Live in community. Produce your own food. Even you can produce your own paper. You don't require printing of so many books. If there is one book, others can imitate, or copy. There is no need of printing. Formerly they used to do that.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: Some people would be engaged in copying books.

Prabhupāda: No, you engage yourself. If you want book, that book, you copy yourself. Why someone should be engaged for you? You have got enough time. You are not going to the factory or hundred miles for your earning livelihood. You are on the local space. You have got enough time. You just take, copy. That's all. Minimize your unnecessary waste of time. Save time. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go back to home. This is our idea. Instead of chanting twenty-five rounds, you chant hundred rounds. That is utilization of proper time. Instead of begetting cats and dogs, you just beget one child, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the ideal life. What is the use of using sex life unnecessarily? Therefore only for begetting nice child one should have sex life. This is ideal life. Not that you use sex life, contraceptive method. This is all demonism. But they cannot do without it. Because they have no other engagement, they do not know how nice Kṛṣṇa is and how pleasurable it is to reciprocate with Kṛṣṇa, Therefore they go to the dog's pleasure, sex life on the street and there, on the beach. That's all. They have been educated like dogs. Therefore they want it.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: One problem that seems to be occurring more and more frequently is the appearance of terrorists, that is to say, men who are motivated for some political, mostly political reasons.

Prabhupāda: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, they are all animals. That's all. But you don't become animal. Counteract. That is required. Then after... A human being is called rational animal. If you come to the rationality, that is required. If you remain also another animal, another type of animal, that will not help you. You have to become actually human being. But durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. You have to... These people they have no aim of life. What is the aim of human..., they do not know. So their animal propensities are being adjusted this way, that way, this way, that way. Just like they go to see naked dance. The animal propensity—he is seeing his wife daily naked, and still he is going to see naked dance, and paying some fees. Because they have no engagement except this animalism. Is it not? So what is the use of going to see another woman naked? You are seeing every day, every night, your wife naked. Why you are... Because they have no other engagement. The animals. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30).

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: But hate each other, that's all right. We say what is the use of your sexual intercourse? That is animalism. You avoid it. Our Vedic civilization is to avoid it. Therefore they remain brahmacārī, naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī, no sexual intercourse in the whole life. That is perfection.

Yogeśvara: But that's not possible for the mass of people.

Prabhupāda: No, why not possible? We have got so many, just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He remained completely brahmacārī, although naked he is. He is. He doesn't require, and neither he is agitated. Just like when he was passing, the girls were taking bath. They did not take care. They knew that he is not at all affected by any woman. And when his father was going, they covered. So father inquired, Vyāsadeva, a personality like Vyāsadeva, said, "Why you covered? I am old man, and my young son he was passing naked." They said that "He is paramahaṁsa. He has no agitation of the mind. But you are gṛhastha. You live with woman. You have got distinction, man and woman." So this is civilization. What is the use of sex life? It is simply entanglement. Therefore, at the last stage, one is supposed to become sannyāsī. What is sannyāsī? Vānaprastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī—no sex life. Out of the four different status of life, the brahmacārī has no sex life, the vānaprastha has no sex life, the sannyāsī has no sex life. Only the gṛhastha. That means it is prohibitory. It is allowed—it is simply concession to the person who cannot remain without sex life. It is simply a concession.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our life is so nice. We are satisfied with eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam and chant whole day and night Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. What is the use of this industry and trade. And transport and politics. There is no need. Anartha. It is called anartha, unwanted things.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād

bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasyājānato vidvāṁś

cakre sātvata-saṁhitām

(SB 1.7.6)

These are all anarthas, unwanted things. So to stop these anarthas is bhakti-yoga. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya. These rascals, they do not know. Therefore vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Vidvān, the most learned man Vyāsadeva has written this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What ism you manufacture it doesn't matter. We have to see whether you are understanding the value of life. Our point is that. We don't mind whether you are communist, capitalist, this ist, that ist, that... We want to see whether you are utilizing your human intelligence for right purpose. We don't condemn anyone. If the communists, they are also making the same plan as the capitalist, then what is the use of this communism? The same thing. It may be useful for the temporary purpose, for the rascals, but it is the same quality.

Devotee: Gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haihaya: But they say that first we must deposit the same right, the distribution must be equal to everyone.

Prabhupāda: That you cannot do. Why don't you see? Why don't you make up others who are already suffering? What you are doing for them? They do not like to take it. Even your proposal, "You come, live in a nice house," they will not take it. Then? What you will do? You are making arrangement for good purposes, for good standard of living, but others, they will not accept your proposal. I have given the example, hippies. Let the Communists come and ask them, "Why you are living in this way? Come on. We shall give you." Why communists? Their government is offering, "Why you are lying on the street? Come on. Live in a nice house." They will not accept it. What you will do, that?

Nitāi: That is just like the example you gave the other day about the man sitting under the tree. Someone comes up to him and says, "Come, work hard. You will enjoy." The hippies, their only business is trying to enjoy. They are just absorbed in sense gratification.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Therefore, if they have no knowledge what is sinful, simply by instruction, "Don't do something sinful," so what is the use? They must know. We give in the beginning, in our society, "These are are sinful activities." What is that? Meat-eating, sinful activity. And gambling, illicit sex, and intoxication. You must give it up. All these European and American boys, they were habituated to all these things from the very birth. They did not know they are sinful. But since they have come to me, I have said, "These things are sinful." They have given up. And just compare with their character, with their behavior... (break)

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etām (taranti te)

(BG 7.14)

So we must know what is the law of nature, what nature wants. Nature does not want at least human being should be sinful. Then you will be punished.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) But I am very much, I mean, strict on this point, that if the society does not know what is sinful and what is pious, it is all useless.

C. Hennis: Well, let's hope that they'll be a...

Prabhupāda: It can be a decoration. That we describe, "The decoration of the dead body." Anyone who has no brain, lost all brain, it is a dead body. So a dead body you can decorate to your full satisfaction, but what is the use of decorating a dead body?

C. Hennis: Well, thank you very much again. It's very kind of you.

Prabhupāda: Give him some prasāda. Please sit down for a moment.

C. Hennis: I have to go because I have a...

Yogeśvara: If you can wait just two minutes. One tradition is that we always offer our guests prasādam, foodstuffs that we prepared.

C. Hennis: Thank you very much. But I have to go very shortly. I have to...

Yogeśvara: Well perhaps I should give him downstairs.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Give him.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Our temples. These big, big temples we have now.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to go everywhere. Wherever there is opportunity to instruct about this spiritual subject matter, we must go there. We should not have such discrimination, that city should be neglected. No. Why? They are also human being. They are misled. So we have to give them a little instruction. Everywhere. In cities there is possibility. Whatever we have collected, our men, that is from city, not from the village. So why should we neglect city? Where is the question? (break) All hobgoblin, the last word which I said, "dressing the dead body, decorating the dead body." The society has no brain; that means dead body. When a man's brain is gone, he is dead body, maybe he is living. He has no use. Just like a madman. He has got life, but what is the use of that life? It is already dead. Because his brain is deranged. Is it not? So if the brain is lost, brain is deranged, therefore it is dead body. That is the distinction between living body and dead body. A living man has got brain. He can work with his brain. And the dead bod... The body is there. Why call it dead? Because brain is not working. Brain is dead. That is the difference. Although the hand is there. The dead man has also hand. The leg is there. The dead man has also leg. But why the hand is leg? Because the brain is dead.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is concocting some ideas, and they are going on as different organization. That's all. No standard idea. The standard idea is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that cows should be given protection, go-rakṣya. Who is following this? Everyone is making plan how to kill cows in a more scientific way. This is going on. Who is taking the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā? Nobody is taking. Even in India where Bhagavad-gītā is originally, these rascals also not taking. And they have become so brainless. Therefore the whole human society is a dead society. And the dead society's dressing, decorating, is useless waste of time. That's all. Their education, their advancement... He has no brain. What is the use of education? That is said by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, that snake is a snake. Do you think a snake decorated with a jewel on the hood is gentleman? Similarly, a man without brain, so-called education, is just like a jewel on the head of a serpent. Kim asau na bhayaṅkara. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita asks "Whether a snake with jewel on the head is not fearful? He is as much fearful as the other snake without the jewel." Similarly, if a human being has no brain, with his so-called education or no education, it is as good. The education has no value. He does not know what is good work, what is bad work, what is my aim of life, what is this body, what is the soul? If these things he does not know, then what is the value of his education? So the man is not satisfied?

Guru-gaurāṅga: He was in a hurry to get out.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Oh, yes. He asked me to excuse him to you. He had a meeting to go to.

Prabhupāda: I would say "If he has no brain, what is the use of going to a meeting?" (laughter) Our only... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The men are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. What they will do? Meeting of the dogs, hogs, camels and asses will be any beneficial to the society? We are very pessimistic, and our conclusion, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is dogs, hogs, camels, asses, that's all. No brain, animal. Animal has got brain: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life. So these people, they have got brain for that purposes only. That is animal life. Actually, they do not know what is the aim of life, why people should be educated, why human society should be organized. They do not know. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Enamored by these big, big buildings. That's all. "Oh, they are so advanced." And naturally, the common man comes to the European or American city, he says, "Oh, Americans are very rich." "Rich" means they have piled up stones and bricks, that's all. This is their richness. What is there in the richness here? But people are common men. They think that this piling of bricks and stone is like real civilization. What do you think? Is that real civilization?

Yogeśvara: No.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: By the frogs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Automatically... There was news that in the coal mine all of a sudden a frog came out and it was estimated that... Because the coal is formed by the ruins. So when there was ruins, at least ten thousand years ago, during the ruins, the frog was encaged. And it formed coal. Still he was living. That means he lived at least for ten thousand years. So Brahmā lives for ten millions of years. So what is the... They are also condemned. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartinaḥ (BG 8.16). Kṛṣṇa says, "What is the use of going to Brahma-loka. Even if you live for millions of years, you will have to die." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: (BG 15.6) "But if you come to Me, you will never have to die." Our struggle is for that purpose. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). for these things, those who are trying, they are less intelligent.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: So we can produce a speaking machine.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Robert Gouiran: We can make a speaking...

Prabhupāda: No, speaking, what is that speaking machine? If I speak, then it will speak. (laughter) That is nonsense. This speaking machine will speak when I speak, when the life speaks. Otherwise it has no speaking power. Then what is the use of your machine if there is no life?

Robert Gouiran: But that doesn't tell me what is life.

Prabhupāda: Now, life means... Just like you say that speaking-machine is an instrument. It has no life. But when a living man speaks, the machine speaks.

Yogeśvara: It is a study of the symptoms.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the whole physical world is a machine, and the Supreme Life, Kṛṣṇa, when He manipulates, operates, then it works. That is stated.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is... We are speaking, that you cannot do anything. Even in spite of your so-called health (indistinct) or old, you cannot stop it.

Robert Gouiran: So you don't think that somebody could be an instrument to help other?

Prabhupāda: What is that instrument if this instrument is blunt or what is the use of that instrument? Simply possessing one instrument is sufficient? It must work, but if it does not work? You cannot stop death, you cannot stop birth, you cannot stop old age, you cannot stop disease.

Robert Gouiran: So you think that all healers are fool?

Prabhupāda: I don't say fool, there will be intelligent, but they cannot heal. If you see they cannot heal, still they are very nice, that is your business. We say that he cannot heal. If you say that in spite of his being unable to heal, still he's intelligent, that is your business. I say that he cannot heal. What do you think?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You cannot heal, you cannot stop death.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you cannot heal. How you can say that you can stop old age, you can heal disease? How you can say? You cannot... You can't stop death, you can't stop birth. You cannot do this.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: If I have made a little liberal, God conscious, all rascals would have brought... "Here is my God." To stop this nonsense I made it Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa is God only. Nobody is God. If you like this philosophy, come others' God. I don't want your cooperation. What is the use of cooperation of some rascaldom?

Guru-gaurāṅga: That man yesterday wanted to know if we collaborated with other groups.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is collaboration. We are proposing this collaboration. All religion, they're after... Religion means to accept God. So if you accept God, we accept God. Then where is no cooperation? This is cooperation. But if you don't know what is God, we know. That is the difference. Ask this Christians, Mohammedans, and any other religious group, they have got a conception of God, ask them what is the form of God, what does He do, what is His..., so many things. They do not know. But we know.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They simply say He is spirit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all, vague idea. We say, "Here is God." So if you actually believe in God, why don't you take this God and the whole, all different types of religions become one? If you accept God, then we say, "Here is God." So where is the point of difference? How do you differ? Why do you say that you are different religion, my religion? Why do you say, "My religion"? Everyone... This is the only religion: to know God and love Him. What is their objection? To accept God, Kṛṣṇa? What is their object? What is their reason?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They want to gratify their senses.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You may resent, but we know everything. That is a fact.

Satsvarūpa: So how do we deal with that attitude if they're turned away by our...?

Prabhupāda: No, no. He's a rascal. How we can...? We know everything, and he denies. Then what is the use of talking with him? And waste your time. Let him know everything. We have nothing, no business.

Satsvarūpa: We can't compromise and just say that we don't know.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: What does he...

Prabhupāda: No, no. How you can...? You know everything. How you can say, "I don't know."

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You do not know practically that. You must be also a man of knowledge. Otherwise, you cannot say. You cannot be falsely say that "Yes, I know." You must know. Then you say. But if you think that you do not know, don't say foolishly like that. Then you'll be slapped. You must know also. So how do you know? The next question will be: "How do you know everything?"

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Śakuni.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry. All fourth-class men. Basically, they're all fourth-class men. Now, these first, second, third-class men are described. So at the present moment, no one belongs to this qualification. Even they are not to the third-class men. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Who is, who is protecting the cows? That is the third-class man's business. So therefore everyone is fourth-class.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: In other words, he's saying, "I know what you want to get me to say. You want me to say that the center is God." But he's saying, "I'd rather not say that because that's too mystical."

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of talking if you do not know the central point? He says that to come to the truth, neti neti. So we must come to the truth. So we must find out first of all truth. Then we discuss the other, subordinate things. (French) Neti neti means "Not this, not this," means to search out the truth. (French for some time, devotees try to explain Prabhupāda's challenges, RM makes a long speech.)

Bhagavān: The first thing is he's talking for too long, and you're missing the point. It's getting confusing. Ask him, first of all, to speak a little shorter. (French)

Yogeśvara: So he said, what he's suggesting is that first of all, we'd be better off not giving it some kind of concrete form because he thinks ultimately the silence is the best answer.

Prabhupāda: Then let him learn that. If silence is best, then don't talk.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: If the devotee is fearless, how is it Prahlāda was expressing his fearfulness of the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even you are fearless, you should not be fool. Because, if you know that "There is danger, I must be very careful," that is intelligence. That is not fearfulness. Besides that, a devotee like Prahlāda, he's fearless, but he's fearful for others. That is stated. Just like the mother. She knows that she'll not catch fire, she'll not fall down in the water, but she is always anxious to see her child that the child may not fall into the water, may not catch fire. She's working in her own way, but always fearful of the child. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava, he's not fearless for himself, but because he's sympathetic, because he knows that all these rascals, they are wrongly wasting their time, therefore he's anxious, fearful. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. They are unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For themselves, there is no unhappiness. That is their grace. And Vaiṣṇava is fearless, even if he's sent to hell, he's not unhappy. Because wherever he goes, he'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So actually he has no fear, fearfulness. He is only unhappy... Just like we are talking. Others may think that we are criticizing, but we are actually talking. Suppose this, one who has manufactured this big park and he has, next life, he has become contaminated, the dog's life, then what is the use? How you can guarantee that you are not going to be a dog? It is under the management of material nature, maram (?), very powerful. Just like even a big man like Napoleon, he's also under the control of material nature. As soon as the time is... "Get out." "No, I want to finish this arch." "No, sir, you get out." Then where is your powerfulness? That they do not know. For the temporary power, they become puffed up and go to hell. That's all. But they have no conception of hell. These are primitive ideas.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So that is our philosophy. We... Arjuna acted as soldier, and still, he was recognized as devotee. (French)

Bhagavān: What is the use of practice, if you practice or you don't practice you still get the same result?

Prabhupāda: No, practice must be there. You cannot avoid practice. We also practice.

Karandhara: What he says is the form of the practice doesn't really matter, but the inspiration or the motivation to practice, to try and become desireless, that is the dynamic thing. It doesn't matter what form it takes.

Bhagavān: The problem is still death, though.

Prabhupāda: No, practice without any aim...

Karandhara: They say the aim is the practice itself. Just like we say the aim of devotional service...

Prabhupāda: No, no, the aim is there. Aim is there. He says that to become desireless. That is the aim. So why does he say that there is no aim?

Pṛthu Putra: When he is talking about practice, he's talking about special practice, the zazen practice. And his concept in zazen, his concept of Buddha, is this disciplic succession, that to practice under the guidance of the spiritual master of this disciplic succession of zazen from Buddha. That is his practice.

Prabhupāda: No, if he says that "There is no aim; you go on practicing," so aim is there, he says, that to become desireless.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That you say they have got; he does not say. You say.

Karandhara: No, but I mean philosophically considering, they have an aim, but it's very obscure. The substance and the significance of that aim is without form or conception.

Prabhupāda: So without aim, what is the use of practice? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says he likes the practice without goal, and he doesn't give any value to the practice because there is goal.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Without goal, practicing something, it is foolishness. (French)

Karandhara: No, he is also working for a goal. He just differs semantically with what we say.

Prabhupāda: No, he does not know what is that goal. No, he does not know what is that goal.

Karandhara: Well, he says the goal is to become goal-less.

Prabhupāda: We give the goal... We give the goal, yajñārthe. Yajñārthe karma. We give the goal: for satisfying the Lord Viṣṇu, Yajña, yajña-puruṣa. We know the goal.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Paramahaṁsa: They argue that all paths lead to Kṛṣṇa. So why is one better than another?

Prabhupāda: If you know that all paths leads to Kṛṣṇa, then why don't you take this path? Why you are going round about way? If somebody asks you, "Where is your nose?" What is the use of showing like this. (laughter) Show like this. If you know really nose. But you do not know. Therefore you are going like this.

Guru-gaurāṅga: They say one man's food is another man's poison. So perhaps this process isn't practical for everyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you take the poison and die. Because you do not understand easily, better you take poison and die.

Paramahaṁsa: What does it mean when they say that failure is the pillar of success?

Prabhupāda: Yes. For whom? Who is actually searching after success? Not for the fool. Anyone who is trying for attaining success, for him, failure is also success because he's making progress. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). God says, "Many ways." That's all right. But why does He says that "If you want to know Me perfectly, and without any doubt, then this is the process, bhakti"? Other processes are there but by those processes you cannot understand. Just like practically, call anyone, so-called yogis, so-called jñānīs, they'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. They'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. So all other paths that are recommended, by those paths you cannot understand God perfectly and without any doubt. Therefore God says clearly, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: (BG 18.55) "Actually, what I am, that can be understood by bhakti-yoga." Other systems, you'll... I explained that last night. That is partial understanding. That is not full understanding.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bhagavad-gītā, you state that sometimes they begin to take on these demonic qualities within the womb. These demonic qualities are inherited from the past life. So if we begin Kṛṣṇa conscious education very young, it's possible to stop these demonic qualities from developing?

Prabhupāda: No. His demonic qualities will be purified. Otherwise, what is the use of preaching? If the qualities cannot be changed, then what is the meaning of preaching?

Bhagavān: No, I said if we begin education early, they can be...

Prabhupāda: Yes, as early as possible. From the very womb, you begin education. Let the mother hear about Kṛṣṇa. He'll be purified from the womb. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja became. He was born by a demon father. But his quality changed when his mother was instructed by Nārada Muni, everything was changed. If the demons cannot be changed, then what is the meaning of preaching?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, sometimes they argue that Kṛṣṇa knows past, present and future. We are preaching that we have minute independence. We are preaching that Kṛṣṇa has given us minute independence to desire. So if Kṛṣṇa knows past, present and future, then where is the question of our independence? In other words, He knows already what we're going to desire?

Prabhupāda: Past, present and future? Therefore there should be no independence? Is that a very good argument?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is their argument.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: If you want to dance, you cannot be shy. There is a Bengali proverb, nate vase guṇṭhana tana (?). You understand Bengali? No. That, "When you are going to dance... A girl, or a lady is supposed to dance in the platform, in the stage, and when she came, she saw thousands of people. Then she drew her veil, what is called, guṇṭhana, became little ashamed. So you are going to dance. What is the use of veiling yourself?" So similarly, when one takes part in politics, if you don't take all the tactics of politics, then you cannot gain ground.

Devotee: But more and more the people, especially in America, they are seeing how these politicians are cheating. Because every year, in every campaign, the same politician is saying, "I will do this, I will do that," and when he gets into office, he never does anything. But maybe now this time, when our Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees are running and they are showing the people what rascals... Just like Balavanta on TV, he was saying "How can these people be leader, when they are themselves permitting slaughter, drinking, smoking, having illicit sex life."

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That is a fact. But why the leader? The public also drinks. They also encourage slaughterhouse. So if you say to the public that they cannot be leader, then there is no leader. They cannot find out any leader. The public will understand that "I also eat meat, I also drink, do the same thing. Why the leader should be something, saintly person? After all, he is our leader. So we are of the same character. So why the leader should be something different?" They cannot understand it.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: Therefore we must cheat.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose I am thief and somebody accuses you that "He is a thief." So I don't take it seriously because I know, "I am also thief." Means these appeal, that does not appeal because "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If everyone is thief, if you point out somebody that "He is thief, he cannot be trusted," then he knows that "I am also thief. It is not a big problem. I am also thief." Unless the whole public is sinless, he cannot appreciate a sinless leader. Care care mastado bhāi (?). This is natural. If I am thief, so what is the use of accusing you by other, "He is also thief." You'll take that "We all are thieves, all cousin brothers; so why this man should be only accused?"

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is it not a vicious circle, though. Without a pure leader, they cannot be pure themselves.

Prabhupāda: But they cannot understand. The vicious circle, they will not be able to understand. Because he is also vicious.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So this is the position. As soon as you point out, "This man is dishonest," and you scrutinize, everyone is dishonest, then where is dishonesty? It is all honesty. Because if the whole business is dishonesty, so there is no question of honesty? Let it go on. That is the public opinion. Why one should be unnecessarily honest? If the whole world is dishonest, and the dishonest world is going on, then where is the harm? What is the use of becoming... The same thing: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss."

Jyotirmayī: That is exactly what people are saying now. They say "What's the use of being organized and good and sane? Everybody is dishonest now."

Bhagavān: We have to give them a place to go where they can come if they want.

Prabhupāda: Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja gave Kali four places. He could not find out. First of all he gave him four places, that "These four places you can go." But he could not find out such place. So he was embarrassed. So now there is no question of finding out. Everywhere you go, the same four principles. Formerly, it was very difficult to find out a place where these things are going on. Now everywhere you go, these four things are main principles of life. So therefore they cannot very much appreciate these prohibitory principles, that "What is wrong there?"

Devotee: It is just the opposite now. Now there is no place where Mahārāja Parīkṣit can go to find out a spiritual atmosphere.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So is that very good intelligence? (German)

Pṛthu: So she says that this intelligence is actually not good. She says this intelligence...

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of getting better intelligence than the dog? (German) (break)

Haṁsadūta: ...like to have more, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No.

Pṛthu: She thinks that she doesn't want to answer to your point. She says that the man has got his intelligence by God, but he misuses his intelligence.

Prabhupāda: But God has given intelligence for this bad work? (German)

Pṛthu: She says that God has not given this intelligence for this bad work, but that is due to the faulty mankind.

Prabhupāda: Therefore misuse of intelligence will cause his suffering. Now suppose a tiger kills an animal, and a man kills thousands of animals in a day in the slaughterhouse. Is he not sinful? (German)

Pṛthu: She says that this is the evil in mankind.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So there is no truth. It is all hodge-podge. (German)

Pṛthu: Yeah, so she agrees on your point that everyone takes what he likes, and that she says is what...

Prabhupāda: So it is a hodge-podge. (German)

Pṛthu: So she again says that she cannot accept the points of the Bible where there is mention of miracles.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pṛthu: She again says that one cannot accept the portions of the Bible where there are statements...

Prabhupāda: Now, once she said that those things cannot be taken now literally.

Pṛthu: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of taking Bible? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: ...that one always has to take the truth from the untruth, also in Bible.

Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. From untruth, how there can be truth? (end)

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: And why don't you think? That means you are fool. You cannot think, just like dog cannot think. So you are equal to dog. Tell them like that. It is not the question of East and West. It is the question of understanding. In the East also there are many rascals, and in the West there are many intelligent. If it is the East and West question, how the Western boys and girls taking this philosophy? It is not the East and West. It is the question of the rascal and intelligent. One who is intelligent, either he is East and West, he can understand. And one is a rascal, either he is East and West, he cannot understand. This is the real problem. Just like this cemetery. What is the use of keeping this cemetery, occupying unnecessarily so much land? And they are worshiping. They will not go to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but they will worship stone, bhūtejya, offer flower, kneel down. And where the man has gone, he does not know. Bhūtejya. And we saw in the Geneva. A big plot of land is occupied.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then... Then you were asking, "Are you God realized?" If I say, "Yes," then how you'll believe it? You do not know what is God realization. Then why do you put this question? You do not know yourself. If I say,"Yes," how you'll understand that I am right? Therefore you should not put all these questions. It has no value. You do not know yourself what is God realization. Now, just like a medical man, if he asks another man, medical man, so if he says, "Yes," then medical man will understand him by technical terms whether he is medical man. So unless one is medical man, what is the use of asking another man, "Are you medical man?" Unless you are prepared to take the answer whatever I give. Are you prepared?

Guest (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. I am. I am seeing God every moment. So unless we are prepared to take the answer, we should not put ourself...

Guest (3): Your Divine Grace, do you see meditation as a means to God realization?

Prabhupāda: Yes, meditation is also one means, but you cannot meditate now because you do not know what is God. How you will meditate? Meditation upon something, but if you do not know what is God, upon whom you'll meditate? First of all you must know. Just like we know God, Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "Always think of Me." This is meditation. So we meditate upon Kṛṣṇa, so that is perfect meditation because meditation means to think of God. But if you do not know what is God, how you will think of Him?

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That's it. As soon as the discipline broken, then everything is lost. Now you can dance like a dog. That will not affect. Nobody can do that unless there is spiritual strength. Now, last night Madhudviṣa Mahārāja was singing, and so many men became enthused to dance. So unless there is spiritual strength, it cannot be done. Others cannot ask and dance. No, that is not possible. That is not possible. Unless there is spiritual strength, you cannot enthuse others. So we should have to acquire spiritual strength by following the regulative principle. Sanātana Gosvāmī has therefore forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇam pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam śravanām kartavyam: "Those who are not following Vaiṣṇava principles, one should not hear from him." Why? It is Kṛṣṇa-kathā, Kṛṣṇa's. Now sarpocchiṣṭa-payo yathā: "Milk is very good, but as soon as it is touched by a serpent, it is no more good. It is harmful." So one must be Vaiṣṇava. Unless one is Vaiṣṇava, there is injunction, "Don't hear from him. It will be poisonous." So one who is not following Vaiṣṇava principle, he cannot speak about Vaiṣṇava principle. It is harmful. That is forbidden by ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī. If somebody says, "What is the harm? He is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa..." He cannot chant. That is a show-bottle chant. That is not effective. But even taking that "Anyone who is chanting, let me hear," no, Sanātana Gosvāmī says, "No, don't hear." It will be harmful more than... In other words, if you are not following the Vaiṣṇava principle, you don't chant. It will not be effective. Did you not see the difference last night? There were many others. They could not join in the dancing. So far gathering men, if you do not gather intelligent men, then what is the use of gathering men? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: "If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars?" If one is perfect Vaiṣṇava, that is sufficient. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is... There are so many... Such a big instruction book. It is not that, whimsical. But still, we recommend that "Go on chanting."

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is practical. The scientists have got good brain, but who manufactured the brain? You cannot do. You have not manufactured your brain. If you say, "By nature," then nature is more powerful than you. But nature is dead. It cannot create life. That is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). As soon as the question of jīva, living entity, there, this, mine, you can say it is nature. And other things? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, nature, is doing. Everything explained. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā: (Bs. 5.44) "There is an energy which can create, maintain, and destroy the whole cosmic manifestation." Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44), one. There is one energy. Chāyeva yasya vibharti bhuvanāni durgā: "That energy is working just like shadow under the direction of Kṛṣṇa." That is big energy, but that energy... Just like atomic energy, big energy, but it is done by a scientist, not that the ingredients automatically mix together and become an atomic... No. That is not possible. Big, big brain, scientist, they are dealing. Similarly this big energy-creation, maintenance, and destruction of nature—that nature is called Durgā. Durgā. Duḥ. Duḥ means difficult, and gā means going or to understand. To understand the laws of material nature is very difficult. That is called Durgā. Or Durgā means... Durgā means this is like a fort. We are kept within this, and the superintendent is Durgā. Therefore Durgā's picture is ten hands, ten directions with different kinds of weapon protecting. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchānu... (Bs. 5.44). Now the conclusion. Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā: "She is working not independently, according to the desire of somebody else." Who is that somebody? Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **: "That is Govinda. I am worshiping Him." And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

sūyate sa-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

(BG 9.10)

What is the use of...? Why should we go to research? Everything is there. Our position is very safe. We get the perfect knowledge without wasting our time. We take from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Finish. We know everything. Just like so many scientists, so many psychology, psychiatrist, and religionist, they come to me, but I am neither of them. I never was a scientist nor I am a psychologist nor a psychiatrist nor this or that. But I speak on the strength of Bhagavad-gītā; I defeat them. It is practical. So many people came to me but nobody went unharmed.