Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is my program. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible for everyone. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births one can come to this. So it is not possible that a mass of people, a large quantity of people will be able to grasp it. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Another place it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). After many thousands of men, one may be interested how to liberate himself. And out of many such liberated persons, one may understand what is Kṛṣṇa. So understanding of Kṛṣṇa is not very easy thing. But Lord Caitanya is so munificent that He has given us a, I mean to say, easy process. (indistinct) Otherwise Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not easy. Because Kṛṣṇa is the last word of Absolute Truth. Generally, people are just like animals. Out of many such persons, one becomes interested in the scriptures.
What is Krsna (Conversations)
- 1 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.1 1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.2 1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.3 1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.4 1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.5 1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.6 1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.7 1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.8 1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.9 1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I have seen in Ahmedabad his temple. He established one deity, a woman shape, and there is no Kṛṣṇa. "Gītā." "Gītā" means a woman. So I don't think he has full understanding of Gītā. He has money; he has spent. That's all. But he does not understand Gītā. Gītā means unless one takes Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead he does not understand anything of Gītā. That is the test. He may advertise himself as scholar or this or that, but our only test is whether he accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is the test. Is that person accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? He himself accepts that "I am God." Is it not? Therefore he's a foolish. He is squandering money, public money. That's all. That is his business. He might have some qualification to collect money, but he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Tiṣṭhāmi. That's it. Therefore a devotee's position is sublime. Kṛṣṇa comes as a devotee also. Actually this happened. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he happened to be a Mohammedan, Lord Caitanya's devotee. So in those days, five hundred years ago, there was some Hindu-Muslim... Still that is going on. So he did not enter Jagannātha temple to create some disturbance. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also did not ask him that "You go to Jagannātha temple. Who can check you?" Of course, if Caitanya Mahāprabhu had ordered, he would have gone. Neither he wanted to go, neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You must go." Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come to him. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. This is the practical. He came to the devotee where he was chanting. So instead of approaching God, if you chant, God will approach you. That is a fact, we see. Instead of Haridāsa Ṭhākura going to Jagannātha, Jagannātha Himself was coming to him. Every day Lord Caitanya would come and ask and sit down, "How you are feeling? What you are doing?" Then He would go to take bath in Samudra. Daily. It was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... And when Haridāsa Ṭhākura expired, He personally took the body and cremated on the bank of the Samudra and he performed the funeral ceremony. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was so... And he was given the title nāmācārya, "authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." Very nice that you are cultivating this knowledge. It is very nice. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). This cultivation of spiritual knowledge means perfection of life. But people do not try for it. Therefore Gītā says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many thousands of men, one may try to cultivate knowledge for spiritual advancement." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ: (BG 7.3) "Out of many such persons who are cultivating spiritual knowledge, hardly one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa."
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Soul is changing body. Why you are talking of merging? You are changing body, you are individual. I am changing body. I may change to a dog's body, you may change to a demigod's body. That is going on. According to one's karma, he is changing body. Now, when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, this change of body will take place also, but that body will be spiritual. So long you get material body, you have to change, one after another, one after another, one after another. Just like if you have a cheap thing, it goes wrong, you have to purchase another new thing. But if you purchase a real, nice thing it will go, continue for good. Similarly, so long you are getting this cheap body, material body, you have to change. And as soon as you get the most valuable body, spiritual body, there will be no more change. Why don't you understand like that? So that you have to get. That is very simple. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ. One who does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, he thinks that somebody is greater than Kṛṣṇa. But anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa as he is, immediately he gets that permanent body. Simply by knowing Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mam eti (BG 4.9). Is it clear? Yes. So you have to do that. You have simply to understand Kṛṣṇa. The whole problem is solved. (Prabhupāda is pounding on the table, stressing points.)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. Forty millions of years ago what He did, He remembers. Therefore His maraṇa. His janma is different. (Hindi) He remembers. You do not remember. You sambhava(?), but you do not remember. Why don't you understand the difference between your activities and Kṛṣṇa's activities? That is wanted. Why do you think that "Kṛṣṇa is as good as I am"? Then you'll be able to understand Him. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. As soon as you think that "Kṛṣṇa is as good as I am," then you are mūḍha. "Because He has appeared as a human being, therfore He is as good a human being like me." That is the conclusion of the mūḍha, rascals. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍha mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) ...bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). (break) ...understands Kṛṣṇa as He is, then he's allowed to, "Come on. Enter." Not before that.
Prabhupāda: Now, who is not drinking water? The taste of water is Kṛṣṇa, so who has not seen Kṛṣṇa? They say, "Can you show me God?" If you don't see God, then who will show you? Here is God. You are drinking water. Here is God, sunshine. Those who cannot see Kṛṣṇa is God... Because to see Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality God, it requires many, many thousands of years tapasya to understand Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births, one can understand Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many thousands of men, one may be interested how to make this life perfect. And those who actually attain perfection, out of many thousands of them, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not easy job, easy job. So one who has understood "Here is Kṛṣṇa with Rādhārāṇī; let me serve," that position is very exalted position. That is not ordinary position. But one who is unfortunate not to come to that position to understand Kṛṣṇa, for them Kṛṣṇa is giving the prescription you see here. You drink water, the taste, now just think, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." In this way, if you think of Kṛṣṇa in your daily activities, then one day you will be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: The movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very firm. (makes comment about other room; loud sounds of kīrtana and fire yajña) Bhagavad-gītā was there, so Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was there. India, it was existing. Unfortunately, some of the less intelligent swamis and philosophers, they could not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, and they misinterpreted the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore people could not understand. In spite of reading Bhagavad-gītā all the world over, they were not aware what is Kṛṣṇa, although Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa understanding. You have read Bhagavad-gītā?
Mohsin Hassan: Oh, yes. Beginning to end.
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is the difficulty. (Hindi)
Reporter: (Hindi) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: It is very simple, you see. Actually one who does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, for the neophyte, the prescription is there, that "You understand Kṛṣṇa like this." Because you are dealing with bhūmiḥ, you are dealing with water, you are dealing
with fire, you are dealing with air, you are dealing with sky, you are dealing with mind, you are dealing with intelligence. You are dealing with all these things. Well, Kṛṣṇa says, "They are display of My energy." And then again says apareyam: "These energies are inferior," itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, "and there is another energy superior." What is that? Jīva-bhūta, the living entity, mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). So what is the difficulty? I do not understand. He is explaining everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. Simply we have to take it as it is. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am this," and if you say, "No, Kṛṣṇa is not like this," so that is your nonsense. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am this." If you want to understand, just like if you want to understand me, I say that "I am a sannyāsī, I am a preacher," and if you say, "No, you are not a preacher," then how you can understand?
Prabhupāda: I have no personal presentation. I am speaking only what Kṛṣṇa... Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Here is the book, you see. This book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, which we are presenting, and publisher is Macmillan Company, and every year they are printing at least fifty thousand copies. This is for our fifth edition. They are printing this book since 1968. '68, '69, '70, '71, that, I think, I know they have, they are fifth edition, and people are reading it, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Our..., we don't change. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme," and we are saying Kṛṣṇa is the same, Supreme. Even I do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, I am simply presenting what is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior element above Me." So we say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. There is no other Supreme." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We say that "You follow, think of Kṛṣṇa, you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you offer your respect to Kṛṣṇa." So we are not (indistinct), because we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as He is speaking in the Bhagavad-gītā, that's all.
Prabhupāda: That guru cannot be. That guru's designation is there in the Vedas, that tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). Anyone who is inquisitive for understanding... Suppose if you are inquisitive to understand really what is Lalaji, then you must approach to a person who knows Lalaji. Then you will understand Lalaji. And if you approach somebody who does not know Lalaji, then he may give you misinformation. So guru is that who knows Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you will not be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa also very easily you can find out. Take what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa teaches Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna directly. Now if you believe Arjuna, then you understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa taught Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, and why Arjuna was taught, that is also said by Kṛṣṇa, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si: (BG 4.3) "Because you are My devotee." Kṛṣṇa did not go to teach Bhagavad-gītā to a Vedantist. He went to teach to Arjuna.
Prabhupāda: Take what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa teaches Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna directly. Now if you believe Arjuna, then you understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa taught Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, and why Arjuna was taught, that is also said by Kṛṣṇa, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si: (BG 4.3) "Because you are My devotee." Kṛṣṇa did not go to teach Bhagavad-gītā to a Vedantist. He went to teach to Arjuna. He was a family man, he was a soldier, but why he was selected? He, Kṛṣṇa said, bhakto 'si. So if you approach a Kṛṣṇa bhakta like Arjuna, then you will understand Kṛṣṇa; otherwise you will not. They are understanding Kṛṣṇa through me, not before me. But if they or some of them, "something," some of them "something," they may be very big scholar, but they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa.
Reporter: So first there should be direct...
Prabhupāda: The significance..., there is no significance. These professional Bhāgavata readers, they make money from the public because public wants to hear all these things. Just like we read a novel-a woman is embracing a man, or kissing or having sex. They like it. Therefore they go the Bhāgavata Tenth Canto immediately. Their Bhāgavata reading is professional, not understanding of Kṛṣṇa. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then go step by step, one by one. First of all read Bhagavad-gītā, try to understand, and you surrender to Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says, then you enter. Just like after passing entrance examination you enter into the college. Similarly, when you are qualified in accepting Kṛṣṇa as all in all, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66), then you enter into Bhāgavata. Bhāgavata is the graduate study, not ordinary study. But these professionals, they take advantage of the weakness of the people, and they make profession and earn some money. That's all. When we speak of Bhāgavata we speak from First Canto, Second Canto, Third Canto..., the nine cantos to understand Kṛṣṇa. Just like in First Canto the beginning, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, janmādy asya yataḥ. This is Vedānta-sūtra verse. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa for perfect knowledge, then you'll understand what is kṛṣṇa-līlā.
Prabhupāda: So those who are in devotional service, they have got two things: they can see what is māyā and what is Kṛṣṇa. That is perfect life. Then he can understand how this world is going on, how Kṛṣṇa is working. Everything becomes revealed. Bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Otherwise, what qualification we have got in comparison, their M.A., Ph.D., D.S.D. and so on, so on? Still they cannot touch the right point. Just like Dr. Stahl in Berkeley University. He talked with me, and at last he became silent. So we can challenge like that. Just like we are discussing so many philosophies. So bhakti-yoga is so nice. So you execute bhakti-yoga very nicely, and then you become the topmost learned man in the world. This is a fact.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Correctly or incorrectly, if it is spoken by realized soul, that is important. Śṛṇvanti gāyanti. Somehow or other, if the attempt is to glorify the Supreme Lord; otherwise, if the attempt is to kill the Supreme Lord... Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan, what is the value of such erudition? A rascal. That is called (Sanskrit), jugglery of words. It has no value. Anyone who is trying to present... Just like Aurabindo, he has no idea what is Kṛṣṇa and writing so many nonsense things. Vivekananda, he has no idea. Dr. Radhakrishnan. Rabindranath Tagore, he has no idea what is God, but he is writing Gītāñjali. That should be tested by life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu speaking āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya, He behaves Himself perfectly and then teaches how to become a devotee. He is mad after Kṛṣṇa, He is falling down in the sea. You see? So that is wanted. And the Bhāgavata also says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir (SB 1.2.6), how one has increased his devotion and love for Kṛṣṇa, that is the test of it. Not these formalities. Another place Kṛṣṇa says, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Even sudurācāraḥ, even not well behaved but unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30), he is sādhu. Don't consider about his misbehaviors.
Prabhupāda: ...because you have got material eyes. Because your, you have got your material eyes, you cannot see the spiritual form. Therefore He kindly appears to be in a material body so that you can see. This is the point. Because He has kindly made Himself just fit for your seeing, that does not mean He is..., that He has material body. Just like President Nixon, if he kindly comes to your house, it does not mean that his position and your position is the same. It is his kindness, out of love, he may come to your house, but that does not mean he is on the same level with you. Similarly, because we cannot see with our present eyes what is Kṛṣṇa, therefore Kṛṣṇa appears before us as painting, as made of stone, as made of wood. And Kṛṣṇa is not different from these paintings and wood because everything is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you are engaged in the service of the Lord, you are in healthy condition, there is no suffering. Just like these boys, they did not know Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, two years or three years ago. But since they have been engaged in the service of, they are feeling very nice, healthy. Everyone is asking me, "Why so many young men are attracted by this movement?" (laughs) They think it is movement. No. They have taken the real occupation-serving Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they have (indistinct). When one is normally situated, naturally he feels happy and he's healthy. When in the diseased condition, he cannot be happy. When the disease is gone, in healthy condition, naturally you'll be happy.
Prabhupāda: Because the whole world—the so-called politicians, so-called scientists, so-called philosophers—they're all rascals. They have forgotten God. We, we call them directly, they're all rascals, mūḍhā, duṣkṛtina mūḍhā. All sinful, all rascals, because they have no information of God, Kṛṣṇa. Ask any scientist, "Do you know anything about Kṛṣṇa?" "Oh, what is Kṛṣṇa? What is God? This is all foolish, humbug." They will say like that. And he's passing as great scientist. He's fool number one but he's passing as great scientist. (laughter) Ha! Our Śyāmasundara's daughter, little daughter, she preaches, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" If somebody says, "No, I do not," "The Supreme Personality of Godhead." (laughter) Actually that is nice preaching.
Devotee: The scientist from California.
Prabhupāda: Yeah. So many scientists comes to us. We say, "You are rascal number one." And he agrees. (laughter) Ha! I call him a rascal, fool, demon, and at last he agrees. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for invoking the dormant love for Kṛṣṇa that is there in everyone. Just like four or five years ago these boys, they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. And now their countrymen is surprised: "How these boys are after Kṛṣṇa, mad after Kṛṣṇa?" That means love of Kṛṣṇa was there. It has simply be invoked. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta,
- nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa prema 'sādhya' kabhu naya
- śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
- (Cc. madhya 22.107)
The Kṛṣṇa prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, is within everyone. That love is being expressed in so many ways. Actually that is love for Kṛṣṇa. So when one invokes that love in proper condition, then he loves Kṛṣṇa and loves everyone. Here the so-called love is for some purpose. Just like we are... I have come to this country. My purpose is not to get some money from them. Because I think, "My Guru Mahārāja ordered that 'You go to the Western countries,' " so I have come to the Western countries to give them Kṛṣṇa. And because they, everyone has Kṛṣṇa prema, they are accepting it.
Prabhupāda: No, we have got center in Bombay. No, I have... My personal centers are not there. But just like Gītā Press. They are also publishing Bhagavad-gītā, millions of copies every month, and that is being distributed in India. So why does he say, "Indians, they do not know"? That is foolishness. Every Indian knows what is Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): You're talking about the center, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (3): Yeah, they look at this point of view because they think if that's the only movement which he associated with Lord Kṛṣṇa, but Lord Kṛṣṇa is almost in every home in India.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented. Just like in western countries, before me, hundreds and thousands, swamis and yogis went there. But not a single person could understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and what is Kṛṣṇa. Now hundreds and thousands of these boys in Europe, America, Canada, Africa, everywhere, Australia, everywhere, they are now become devotees... So they're intelligent persons, they're coming from rich family.
Prabhupāda: Why you bring Brahmā? Then you have not understood Kṛṣṇa.
Scholar: We are asking.
Prabhupāda: Why you are asking? Because you do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
Scholar: (indistinct) here.
Prabhupāda: You are asking because you do not understand Kṛṣṇa.
Scholar: Because it's mentioned here.
Prabhupāda: Oh. He says mām. He says everything mām, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), mām eva, everything mām, "I". So why you should bring Brahmā? Kṛṣṇa says everything "I". You are asking about Kṛṣṇa. That means you do not understand Kṛṣṇa. But it is clearly said mām, Kṛṣṇa. We have, therefore, given the name "Kṛṣṇa consciousness", nothing else, neither Brahmā consciousness, nor God consciousness. "Kṛṣṇa consciousness." The whole concentration is to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: They have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā: their knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Although they appear to be very learned, but actually, a sense of knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Real thing they do not understand, nor, or refuse to understand. So they are offenders. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhi. "All the Māyāvādīs, they are offenders to Kṛṣṇa." Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu (BG 16.19). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Dviṣataḥ krūrān. They're envious, krūra. "I put them into the hellish condition of life." These, these Europeans and American boys, they're innocent. I have told them that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." They have accepted. That's all. Others, they will argue, "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be...?" They're offenders. Yes. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa; still they will argue.
Guest (7): Because they're ignorant.
Prabhupāda: Simply if you know what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what are His activities. These things, if you try to understand, then you conquer over death.
Graham Hill: And anyone who, I mean, you know the (indictinct) and you are telling your followers.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is our philosophy. We are spreading this philosophy. That conquer over death and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore our name of the paper is Back to Godhead. Winning over the race between life and death and get your eternal life and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our philosophy.
Graham Hill: You believe then, in that we come back, rebirth again in another form.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata begins, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), what is the original source of creation. Not abruptly Kṛṣṇa. Then after developing all such knowledge one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. But in the spiritual world there are activities like that. The material world is only perverted reflection of these activities of the spiritual world. Perverted reflections. It is reflection, but perverted. Therefore, it is difficult. Everything is there. Basic principle that Kṛṣṇa loved the gopīs... Gopīs were young girls, Kṛṣṇa was young boy, But the same love between young boy and girl here is lust. Therefore, it is perverted. The reflection is there, but it is not love, it is lust.
David Lawrence: Yes, that's the difference.
Prabhupāda: That's the difference.
Prabhupāda: He said that there is no God, but he's God. Just like the policeman sometimes cheats. He goes as a gambler, but he's a policeman. So that is another thing. Therefore if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you understand all these different activities. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. And you become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If anyone understands what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what His activity is, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, you, after giving up this body, you haven't got to come again in this material world. Simply by studying Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are preaching, "Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...life is meant for to possess complete knowledge of the Supreme.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here it is. Kṛṣṇa is giving opportunity of eating for the cats and dogs, the birds and beasts, and I am engaged in His service, He'll not give me food? Because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are thinking, "If I do not work like these cats and dogs, I'll starve." That is my imperfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he knows that "I have engaged my life in Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa is..., Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's feeding millions and millions of living entities. And he'll keep me starving?" Is it possible? That means he, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He's thinking Kṛṣṇa is a fictitious thing. That is his position. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...then they would have been confident, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is feeding everyone. Why not me? What I have done? Because I am engaged in His service, therefore I shall starve?" And the devotee has no such question also, whether he'll starve or eat. It doesn't matter if he starves. It doesn't matter. He thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has put me in this position, to starve."
Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brāhmaṇa. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can accept your service in any of these material. So-called material. Actually there is no material things. Material things means the desire for sense gratification. That is material. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā—tāre bali 'kām (CC Adi 4.165).' That is material. Kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma. That is spiritual. So that picture, that must be kept in a nice altar, regularly ārati and everything should go on. (pause) (break) mūḍha's position. Vyāsadeva has given Kṛṣṇa's pastimes in the Tenth Canto of Bhāgavata. Nine canto are devoted for understanding Kṛṣṇa, beginning from janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme, what is Parabrahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is beginning. That Kṛṣṇa is personally explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. What Bhāgavata has described, what is Kṛṣṇa simply...
Prabhupāda: :...technology. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, His activities, His appearance, His disappearance, this technology, then you also become like Kṛṣṇa. No more birth, no more death, no more disease. This is science. In this life if you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, then you become immune from birth, death, old age and disease. So if you don't like... Not you, mean the people. They say, "No, we don't like Kṛṣṇa consciousness..." But you are so much advanced in science and technology. Where is your technology? That was my question in the Massachusetts Technological... "Where is your technology to stop this death?" Nobody wants to die. Is it not a fact? So where is that technology that human society has given, has been awarded with this profit by such and such great scientist that people will no more die, no more disease, no more birth, no more old age? Nobody wants to become old. Nobody wants to get an old body like me.
Prabhupāda: But Bhagavad-gītā says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Bhagavad-gītā says that if you understand the Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, janma karma me... First of all, you always remember that whatever we are talking, we are talking on the Bhagavad-gītā, on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, then tyaktvā deham, giving up this body, you'll not have to accept another material body. This is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. But so long you'll accept this body, material body, you'll remain imperfect. There cannot be any perfection. It may be gradation. There are eight million, four hundred forms of life. There is Brahmā, and there is ant also. Both of them are living entities. But the status quo of the ant, and the status quo of Brahmā is not the same, higher consciousness or mental...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Here is electric light also. So what is the benefit? Light, you have got so many lights. So what is the benefit? If you remain in the darkness, then what is the benefit of this light? Light means you are not in darkness. But you are in darkness. If you have got the light, then you can see Kṛṣṇa. But why do you say that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness we cannot see Kṛṣṇa. Rascal. We may not see. But you have seen the light, why don't you see Kṛṣṇa? Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa if you have seen Kṛṣṇa?
Hṛdayānanda: It's true, Prabhupāda. They are in darkness because they cannot check their material activities by seeing the light. They go on with sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Light. We have go so many lights. What is the benefit of seeing the light?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. Patel: That is what we have been taught from our early days.
Prabhupāda: These rascals, they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa or what is Kṛṣṇa's behavior.
Dr. Patel: And that is right. Even for them. I have no objection if you call me a Māyāvādī.
ṟ229 Prabhupāda: Yes, a Māyāvādī. I know.
Dr. Patel: I have no objection...
Prabhupāda: I know! I know certainly. I challenge you. In Karachi, there was Oṁ-sampradāya. And they were calling for young girls and your...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says Himself that avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). He is never this body. He has no distinction between... That has been done, analyzed by Māyāvādī scholar, Dr. Radhakrishnan. When Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, he, he, I mean to say, warns, "It is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." That means he is making distinction between Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's inside. So he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and he's writing comment on Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. It's going on. (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Yaśomatīnandana: Actually, this is so true, Prabhupāda, because even in the western world, they are Christians. They may be fallen Christians, but they don't think they are Christ. They may be fallen. They may not follow the principles...
Prabhupāda: They say "Christ is God."
Indian man (2): Āsurīm...
Prabhupāda: Punar janmani. They'll never be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavān mate. They'll never be able to understand. And remain in darkness, and transmigrate from one body to another, and this business will go on.
Indian man (2): But then how will they come up?
Prabhupāda: When they tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). When they come to the stage to understand things by surrendering. But they will never surrender. That is their business. Ah?
Indian man (4): But the Lord uses a heavy stick, then they'll surrender.
Prabhupāda: Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is also Upaniṣad. Yasmin vijñāte. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Then you have got full knowledge. And that is also stated in the Fourth Chapter. Janma karma me divyam yo janāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti... (BG 4.9). He becomes immediately liberated. Simply if you understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, in truth, then you are, your business is finished.
Mr. Sar: Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3).
Mr. Sar: Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ (BG 7.3).
Prabhupāda: Yes, to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all, so many millions and millions of living entities are there. They are not interested. They are just like animals: "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." Nobody's interested what is the success of life, siddhi. They do not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So without Kṛṣṇa, as soon as... So long the Paramātmā is there... Or the jīva is there... Jīva is also Kṛṣṇa. Because part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, acintya-bhedābheda. So so long Kṛṣṇa is there, either as ātmā or Paramātmā, then the body's moving. But the so-called scientists, they do not know. Therefore they do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Scientists have started understanding Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: They are standing?
Dr. Patel: They have started understanding Kṛṣṇa now. Scientists.
Prabhupāda: Now, here is the... This is very simple. A child can understand. Here is a dead body, and here is a living body. What is the difference? That Kṛṣṇa is not there, and here is Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Prabhupāda: And still, after that,
- brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
One is engaged in bhakti. They also, after many, many years, will understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Sar: But in this age there must be some people...
Prabhupāda: There is always. Not in this age or that age.
Mr. Sar: Every, every, every...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, every age.
Mr. Sar: Then you must have seen Kṛṣṇa in the human form.
Prabhupāda: I, uh...
Mr. Sar: That is the divine form.
Prabhupāda: Ah! Mohitaṁ, bewildered by the three modes of nature, they cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
- mama-māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the bhaktas who have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they can understand everything.
Mr. Sar: That is the most important.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mām eva ye prapadyante.
Mr. Sar: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ prapadyante... (BG 7.15).
Prabhupāda: They are no more interested. But these jñānīs and jijñāsu, because they want to know what is Kṛṣṇa, they continue. That is the difference.
Guest (1): Even jñānī and jijñāsu also?
Dr. Patel: Teṣāṁ jñānī nitya-yukta eka-bhaktir viśiṣyate.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Jijñāsu is the beginner, and jñānī is realized. Jñānī is realized. Therefore he's better. But that jñānī does not mean that "I have become God." One who is situated in bhakti-yoga. Eka-bhaktiḥ.
Mr. Sar: Eka-bhaktiḥ.
Dr. Patel: "He is dear to Me, and I am dear to him." Jñānī.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, what is Kṛṣṇa, is to be understood from Arjuna. This is paramparā system. Paramparā system. Arjuna talked with Kṛṣṇa personally. So his experience is first-hand. So how this rascal can imagine of Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is like this, Kṛṣṇa is like that." If you actually reading Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept it. This is called paramparā. So what is the experience of Arjuna? Arjuna said, "You are, you are the Supreme Personality, puruṣam. You are not female. You are not prakṛti. You are puruṣa, śaśvata, and the original, śaśvatam, eternally." Not that, the Māyāvādīs, "Now impersonal..." Yes, read one line. That is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: No, he is creating trouble for himself because the rascals will represent that "I am incarnation of God." Therefore Arjuna is asking him, "Now show me your virāṭ-rūpa." So these rascals, bewildered by these so-called gods, they should ask, "Show me your virāṭ-rūpa. Then I shall accept you." That is the process. Not that "I am incarnation of God." How you become incarnation? Just lift one hill. Or show me virāṭ-rūpa. Or show me that you have sixteen thousand wives and you are maintaining them in sixteen thousand palaces. Then you call yourself that "I am incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise, you rascal, I cannot believe you. For them. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa... He knows what is Kṛṣṇa, but because in future some rascal will come and will say that "I am incarnation of God," therefore it is a warning that before accepting one rascal as incarnation, you ask him to show virāṭ-rūpa.
Prabhupāda: That's it. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. And he is writing about Kṛṣṇa, "rural boy with sixteen thousand..." First of all, he does not know that when Kṛṣṇa was rural boy in Vṛndāvana he had no sixteen thousand wives. You see. Still, these rascals say, "rural boy with sixteen thousand wives."
Dr. Patel: When He had this rāsa dance, he was only seven years.
Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, actually, He had sixteen thousand wives when He was in Dvaraka, but these rascals say, "Rural boy." "Rural boy" means when He was in Vṛndāvana. So he does not know even the history, and he is trying to write about Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. And that is the proof. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God, because you cannot maintain even one wife at the present moment. So He maintained sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God. That is the proof. But they will not take that side. They will take in other way, "Oh, this is all stories and fictitious." That's all. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). They do not know. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and they try to write upon Kṛṣṇa, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa was an avatāra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was speaking with Kṛṣṇa. Still, he said that "I cannot see You." That is a fact. (break) Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). If you have got qualified eyes, you can see Kṛṣṇa always, twenty-four hours. So we have to qualify, purify. Sarvopādhi-vinir... You are seeing. You are trying to see God as American, as Indian, as this and that. With that eyes you cannot see. When you are neither American nor Indian nor brāhmaṇa nor śūdra, you are pure spirit, then you can see. They want to remain with this designation-body and want to see God. That is not possible. To enter fire you have to become fire. Otherwise, it will be not possible to enter fire. So without Brahman realization, you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). (break) ...is the same. Quality, it is same. It is salt, salty. And the whole ocean is also salty. That is tat tvam asi. "You are also salty," if I say. If the drop of the water, I say that "This is also salty," that is tat tvam asi.
Pṛthu Putra: Franscend. He says there is many swami and writer come from India and teach to the people, to the western people, what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Indian philosophy, what is God, but they always teach the people who need to be safe, to be, who need something to be safe, and they take it like just a drug or some kind of a dream just to get something to get safe from the material world. But that doesn't mean their action is concrete. That is his point.
Prabhupāda: But we are not doing that. We are, in the material world, we are teaching Kṛṣṇa philosophy, practicing. All these young men, they are actually twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are different from them. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He thinks that the people in western world, mostly now they take Indian religion, some religion or philosophy come from India, because the Christian philosophy has some defect.
Prabhupāda: Very good. (French)
Haṁsadūta: And sell...
Prabhupāda: ..."Made in London," and sell it fifteen times higher than the Germans. This was their business. And that was the cause of... Is it not? Those who have studied history... This is the cause. So all this nonsense thing can be solved if we take it: "This is Kṛṣṇa's property." And if you know something, you are manufac..., that's all right. You do it. I do something else. Or even if I do it, where is the cause of fighting? Because they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Guest (2): Well are you showing your devotees Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly.
Guest (2): Then what is...? Well, what is Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Then ask them, who has seen already. Ask them. They'll tell you what is Kṛṣṇa. But the same thing. If he says something about Kṛṣṇa, you will accept it?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: You will accept?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then see. Here is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Then it will be andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31), one blind man is leading other blind men. What is that? They will all fall into ditch. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, bharata-bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41), janma sārthaka kari': "First of all you be perfect, because you have got opportunity, and then do para-upakāra. Then go to other countries and deliver them." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Not that you remain blind and go there. Just like all these rascal swamis and yogis, they are blind. They do not know what is spiritual life. Andhā yathāndhair. They are blind, and their talks are simply big, big talks, (indistinct). Here also, this Rakhanananda(?), he is speaking on Bhāgavata. He is a rascal, blind; he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He is misleading others. You have seen in Bombay that (indistinct) brought some pictures?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That means they are not in knowledge. That I am speaking, the barking dog. First of all make experiment, produce life. Then come and say. Otherwise don't bark like a dog, imitation. Simply big, big words. Produce. Our theory is that... In the śāstra it is said harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nās... (CC Adi 17.21). That practical proof we are giving, that these Europeans, Americans, they are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and how they are coming out, this practical proof. They did not know five or six years ago what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa's name. But we are taking the conclusion of the śāstra: in this age, if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes spiritualized. That is becoming, practically. It is not theory. How so many devotees are in this Atlanta, here? Anywhere, wherever we have started, how they have become devotee? Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You follow this formula and you will become God conscious." That is being practically proved. It is not theory.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is needed. That is needed. That is needed. If you do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, how you will accept it?
Indian man: I will accept, but not as Kṛṣṇa of Bhāgavata. I may not know anything about Him as of...
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not very good theory. You do not know anything about Him, and you surrender to Him. What is this?
Indian man: We may have our own idea.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept that. If we surrender, we must know Him first of all, what He is. Then we surrender. We are not blind. Suppose you tell me that "You surrender unto me." Shall I do that? Why shall I do it?
Pañcadraviḍa: Not more than Kṛṣṇa. Same as Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he's not... He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that "My dear Arjuna, you, Me, and all these soldiers, they existed before, and they're existing now, and they will exist in the future." So where is merging? Merging is suiciding. It is a spiritual suicide. Disgusted with these material affairs... Just like sometimes a man, being disgusted with this material world, he commits suicide, so this merging is also a kind of suicide.
Pañcadraviḍa: But Brahman always exists.
Prabhupāda: "Always read it," but he never preached about Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): Eh?
Prabhupāda: But he never preached about Kṛṣṇa. He may be always reading, but he did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He never spoke that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord," never spoke. So what is the use of reading?
Guest (1): Ramana Maharshi?
Prabhupāda: Ramana Maharshi, yes, I am speaking of Ramana Maharshi. He never preached about Kṛṣṇa's superexcellent position, never preached. This is going on. Everyone is taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and he's preaching in his own way, foolish way. "Own way" means foolish way. This is going on. You cannot... Suppose you have got your philosophy, but you cannot take my book and preach your philosophy. If you have got philosophy, you write your philosophy. Why do you take advantage of my book and misinterpret?
Prabhupāda: No, Rādhā... There, Bhāgavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhāgavata there is no Rādhārāṇī." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has never said about His Vṛndāvana-līlā. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politicians, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rādhārāṇī? You... If you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and you want to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealings with Rādhārāṇī. That is very confidential.
Prabhupāda: And so long you have got, this is also right, that is also right, then you will not do the right. You will all be misled. That's all. That is not (indistinct). What Kṛṣṇa says, that is right. That should be the (indistinct). Otherwise you will be misled. So we are trying to preach this philosophy in that way. Maybe, very small number, but ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasra. If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling. So that is our propaganda. If one man can understand what is Kṛṣṇa philosophy, then my preaching is successful, that's all. We don't want many millions of stars with no light. What is the use of millions of stars with no light? That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice, varam eka putra na chavur kasatan api (?). One son, if he is learned, that is sufficient. Na chavur kasatan api (?). What is the use of hundreds of sons, all fools and rascals? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasras.
Prabhupāda: But why does he say Kṛṣṇa means black?
Guest: Kṛṣṇa means black, (Hindi) Somebody questioned me: "What is Kṛṣṇa means?" Then apart from this, Sanskrit reply he gave: "Kṛṣṇa means black also."
Prabhupāda: So why did he not say Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive?
Guest: As far as Kṛṣṇa's features are concerned, we know it is (indistinct) black. (indistinct)
Mahāṁsa: The last time we had come here, I had come to just see on the first day what he says. So on the first day he said that now we'll have a gītā-jñāna yajña, and he said we will take the ślokas which are suitable and which ślokas are not suitable...
Prabhupāda: No, throughout the world, in India everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. In the outside India we have got about ten to twelve thousand dedicated followers.
Journalist: Do you mean every, the whole of India is Kṛṣṇa conscious?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they know what is Kṛṣṇa.
Journalist: But how many of them practice it?
Prabhupāda: How many millions? Still, if you hold any Kṛṣṇa conscious meeting, they will come by thousands, twenty thousand, thirty thousand, like that. Even village to village, if there is any chance of Kṛṣṇa conscious meeting, all the villagers will come, still.
Journalist: How many years has Kṛṣṇa consciousness...
Prabhupāda: How Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? That is spiritual. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "These material elements, they are also My energy." So how Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? Bhinna, separated, a little separated, that's all. Separated means as soon as you separate Kṛṣṇa from anything, that is material. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have to dovetail everything with Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be spiritual. As soon as you say these demons they separate Kṛṣṇa, "What is Kṛṣṇa? What is God? We are scientist, we are technicians and so on, so on. We create our own thing." That means they don't dovetail with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are materialist. When we want to enjoy life without Kṛṣṇa, that is material. And Kṛṣṇa gives chance, "All right, you enjoy without Me." And when he is disgusted, then Kṛṣṇa comes once, "Now you have experienced. You haven't got happiness. Now give up this attitude to enjoy without Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... (BG 18.66).
Prabhupāda: Now, what is Kṛṣṇa? How Kṛṣṇa is accepted? Is He accepted as the Supreme Lord?
Yogi Bhajan: Kṛṣṇa is accepted as incarnation of God.
Prabhupāda: Well, incarnation of God and God, there is no difference.
Yogi Bhajan: That's it. Also there is a fundamental message in that, that as God created everyone, God created all of us, and in Sikh dharma God, whatever we want to call it, ultimate reality, beyond sunya-samadha, the truth, and Lord Kṛṣṇa in His incarnation taught, Lord Rāma taught. And what our problem at this time at the humanity is: the humanity is divided in many forms. And it is the inner hatred which people want to expel (spell?) out.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that every, at least, religious sect... I don't say others, nonreligious or agnostic. There are Christian, Mohammedan, Hindu, Sikhs, or any religious system, they have accepted that there is God, Supreme Truth.
Prabhupāda: Atom, atom not question of seeing. You can count all the atoms throughout the universe; still, you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. You may be so great scientist that you can count each and every atom within the universe, but still, you shall remain unable to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the śāstra. Now here is sand. You can say, "There are so many sands." And this is only a small beach, but you can say how many sands and atoms are there within the universe. You can become so qualified. But still, you are unqualified to understand Kṛṣṇa. Radhakrishnan, Dr. Radhakrishnan was a good man, brāhmaṇa, but he was victimized by the western culture. He got some money from Oxford University. Therefore he took the westerner—his father mother, that's all. That is his qualification. Whatever the westerners say, they will say, he will say, "Yes, this is science." Not only Dr. Radhakrishnan, all the big men of India, they thought like that.
Prabhupāda: Pure senses. He does not... Impure senses and pure senses.
Devotee (2): How can you tell when your senses are getting purified?
Prabhupāda: You will understand Kṛṣṇa more and more. So long your senses are not purified, you will not understand clearly what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...understanding Kṛṣṇa means detestful to the material world, attached to Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavaḥ viraktir anyatra syāt. (break)
Devotee (2): Is it true that eventually by this process we'll become purified so we can become like śruti-dharas?
Prabhupāda: That you will see when you become purified.
Devotee (2): Then we will actually attain that condition, then.
Prabhupāda: Speculation means thinking, "What will happen? Maybe like this, maybe like this." That is speculation. (break) ...speculate, "Kṛṣṇa may be like this. Kṛṣṇa may be like this." That is speculation. When Kṛṣṇa appears before you, you see, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is like this." That is wanted. And if you speculate, "Kṛṣṇa may be like this," it is all nonsense. Come to the stage when Kṛṣṇa will appear before you, and you will see what is Kṛṣṇa. Be qualified to that position. Māyāvādīs, they are speculating simply, "God may be like this." Why "God may be like this?" God is factual, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...plane crash took place in John Kennedy?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa means God, and we are all connected with Kṛṣṇa, God. God is the original father. Therefore we have got intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa. So we have forgotten it, what is Kṛṣṇa, what is my connection with Him, what is the aim of life. All these questions there are. And when one becomes interested with such questions, he is called Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Sandy Nixon: How did Kṛṣṇa consciousness develop?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there in everyone's core of heart, but due to one's material conditional life, he has forgotten it. So this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra means to revive that consciousness. It is already there. Just like a few days ago these American, European boys and girls, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. But now you have seen yesterday how their whole, that procession, throughout the whole procession, how they were chanting and dancing in ecstasy. So do you think that is artificial? No. Artificially nobody can chant and dance for hours together. That means the awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It was there; by the bona fide process, it is now awakened.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives, and each wife he gave big palaces made of marble, furniture ivory, and silk and gold, and then again He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand forms, not that one wife is crying for sixteen thousand days, no. Ready (indistinct). And that is Kṛṣṇa. That was also just to give them protection. When they were all kidnapped by Jarāsandha... No? Bhaumāsura. So when they were released, so asked them, "Go home." So in India, if a girl is kidnapped and she lives outside home for three days, nobody will marry her. That system is still now. So they said that "You are asking to go home but we will not be accepted." "Then what do you want?" "Now You marry us." "All right, come on." (laughter) Wholesale, sixteen thousand wives. This is Kṛṣṇa. We are not captivated by Kṛṣṇa, a Guruji Mahārāja. We know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then we accept He is God. He has proved Himself that He is God. Our Kṛṣṇa is not going to marry a society girl secretary. He is not so cheap.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. They should scientifically explain what is Kṛṣṇa. Then their science is perfect. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22), education, tapasya, sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddha-dattayoḥ, charity and gentleness, all good qualities. So kavibhiḥ nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ, big personalities they have decided, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam. If, by their knowledge they can establish vāsudevaḥ sarvam..., Kṛṣṇa is the origin, then their scientific knowledge is perfect. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ means great learned scholars. They have decided like this, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam, instead of talking all nonsense, "This is this. This is this," if they can scientifically explain that "Kṛṣṇa is the original scientist, and His brain has done this like this, like this..." That is Bhāgavata, who is the original scientist, who is original philosopher, original—everything original. Anādir ādir govindaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Govinda is the origin of everything. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Vāsudeva is the original founder. That is a fact.
Prabhupāda: No. Because we are conquering to... We are trying to avoid death. Then it is... Everything is cured. Cancer, cancer's father, grandfather, everything is cured. So we are trying for that. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "If you simply understand Me..." Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Simply if you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what is the purpose, then you become conqueror over death. That is our philosophy. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is our progress, how much we have understood Kṛṣṇa. And when one understands fully Kṛṣṇa-fully it is not possible; at least partially—he is conquering over death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is real human life, how to conquer over death. Aihiṣṭhaṁ yat tat punar-janma-jāyāya. All the great sages and big, big kings, they left everything, went to the forest for austerity, penance. Why? To conquer over death. That is the mission. That... Everyone can do that, human life.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha. Therefore they have been called mūḍhas. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ. They have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as duṣkṛtinaḥ. First of all they are very, very sinful. They have got merit, but sinful merit, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means meritorious, but duḥ, duṣkṛtina. So on account of their (being) duṣkṛtinaḥ they are mūḍhas. They cannot understand what is scripture, what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand. It is not possible.
Indian man (3): Yes, I at least understand what is God.
Prabhupāda: You want to save yourself.
Indian man (2): His definition is different, absolutely. According to his...
Prabhupāda: No, God cannot be defined differently. God is one.
Prabhupāda: Lord Rāmacandra worshiped His devotees. Just like sometimes Kṛṣṇa worships Rādhārāṇī and touched His feet..., Her feet. That does not mean that Kṛṣṇa... Just like Kṛṣṇa was tolerating ear pulling by mother Yaśodā. That does not mean that mother Yaśodā is the Supreme. Hm? Kṛṣṇa was carrying the wooden shoes of Nanda Mahārāja. So that does not mean Nanda Mahārāja is greater than Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa's pleasure. Just like sometimes a father takes the son on the shoulder, carries. Does it mean the father is inferior than the son? So this is third-class man's conclusion. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Rāma. Kṛṣṇa says that aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). So He is the origin of Lord Śiva. So how Śiva can be the Supreme? We have to consult śāstra. Kṛṣṇa does not say that Śiva is Supreme. So if a third-class man says Śiva is Supreme, we have to accept it? We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is Supreme, not a third-class man's version. Is it clear? Yes. We should not take a third-class, fourth-class man's version. We should take from the śāstra.
Prabhupāda: So you are imperfect; therefore this movement is to make you perfect. If you are not imperfect, then why the movement is there? To make you perfect. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). So long you are imperfect, you must suffer in this material world. And as soon as you become perfect, you go back to home, back to.... Because you are imperfect, therefore this movement is necessary. Medicine is there for the patient, not for the person in perfect health. Mūdho' yaṁ nābhijānāti mām eva param avyayam (BG 7.25). These rascals they do not know Kṛṣṇa; therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is necessary. Para upakāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says para upa, para upakāra. You know yourself what is Kṛṣṇa, and distribute this knowledge. That is wanted. That is entrusted to the Indians.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Sentiment, there is... In your relationship with your friends and father and mother is sentiment. That is another thing. But you must know "He's my father," "He's my mother," "He's my son." Sentiment is there even in ordinary relationship. You cannot avoid sentiment. Just like we're dancing. That is also sentiment, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." That is sentiment. But that does not mean because he's dancing in sentiment, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Sentiment must be there. That is ecstasy, enjoyment. But not blind sentiment. (break) ...you do not know, know from Kṛṣṇa. Anybody can say "I do not know who is my father." And if the real father says, "I'm your father, my son," then how he can prove? How he does not know? If he says, "No, I don't believe you that you are my father," then what is the..., what is evidence? He knows. The mother also says, "Yes, he's your father." " No, I don't believe." What is the evidence? The father is saying, "I'm father." The mother is saying, "Yes, he's your father." But the rascal is saying, "No, I don't believe it."
Prabhupāda: That is good. That is always true, but Kṛṣṇa says,
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
How you have understood Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, "Out of many millions of people, one becomes siddha, and out of many millions of siddhas, hardly one can understand Me." So how you have understood Kṛṣṇa so easily, within two years? What you have understood Kṛṣṇa, that is materially understood. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is prākṛta-sahajiyā. "Oh, we have understood. Kṛṣṇa was a playboy, dancing with His girls. Bas, we have understood. Now we shall..."
Rāmeśvara: "If I follow the regulative principles and go on hearing about rāsa-līlā, then I'll be purified."
Prabhupāda: No, no, that has not been properly done. Otherwise, just like here, we have got temple, regulative principle. If it is done properly, the result will be there. If it is improperly done, then there is no result. How these boys, European, American, they never knew what is Kṛṣṇa. But on account of this following the traditionalism, they are becoming devotees. It is practical, you can see. Simply theoretical knowledge will not do. Must be practical. That is traditionalism. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. That is the Nectar of Instruction. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. This is traditional. One has to follow the traditional rules and regulations. Utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt (Upadeśāmṛta 3). First of all one must be enthusiastic: "I shall become devotee." Then, utsāhān dhairyāt, with patience. Then niścayāt, with conviction: "Yes, I am following the rules and it will be successful." And tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt.
Prabhupāda: No fighting spirit. Ṭhākura dekhiya (indistinct). Just make a Deity, show. Our Tīrtha Mahārāja is doing that. His whole idea was, that "I have now captured the birthplace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu by high-court favor. Now I have got everything. People will come and they'll pay something, and that will be my income for my family." As the caste gosvāmīs do in Navadvīpa and other... A means of livelihood. He has no devotion. He wanted as a means of income. Like the Vṛndāvana gosvāmīs, Navadvīpa gosvāmīs do. Little devotion, automatically, there is. They are, after all, worshiping the Deity. But their purpose is different. Just like we have established Rādhā-Vṛndāvanacandra not that people will come and pay something. Who will come here, in this foreign country or in this secluded place? So our aim is to make the devotees real devotees. Not for earning money. When we establish a center in a place like this, where is the idea of getting money? (laughs) Who will come here? One, it is a foreign country, nobody knows what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: For burning it in the fire?
Dr. Sukla: Yes, he said so that we can make our capatis, to have some use of those things. And Kṛṣṇa, of course, there's hardly a village in India where, whether knowingly or unknowingly, people are not aware what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: :In India they know, everyone. They observe Janmāṣṭamī.
Dr. Sukla: Kṛṣṇa paraṁ bhajami. In India everybody knows Kṛṣṇa, even the illiterate person, but nobody knows Vivekananda. Only a few people, they started a Vedanta Society. Of course Veda is a very serious literature, it's not just anybody can get into that, it's a very, it's a disciplic...
Prabhupāda: Brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumādbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). Very.... Nyāya-praṣṭhāna. But Vedānta-sūtra is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, they did not write any comment on the Vedānta-sūtra. They accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real bhāṣya. But when the Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇavas are challenged that "You have no Vedānta-sūtra-bhāṣya, therefore you cannot be accepted as transcendental party," so Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana immediately gave Govinda-bhāṣya on Vedānta. Our Gosvāmīs, they did not write because they knew Brahma-sūtra bhāṣya, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. He's a fool. He does not know the facts, and he has posed himself as a learned scholar. That is the difficulty-fools and rascals presenting themselves as scholar and misrepresenting. People are being misguided. Because he is a learned scholar, you are citing his example. But he is a fool. He does not know what is Mahābhārata, what is Kṛṣṇa. And still, he wants to say something, that is his foolishness. He does not know, and still he wants to speak something. That is cheating. The cheating propensity is there for conditioned souls. He does not know one thing, still he wants to speak as an authority. That is cheating. How you can differentiate? If you are actually student of Mahābhārata, then how we can differentiate the speaker in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra and Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is accepted there as Bhagavān. Whenever Vyāsadeva writes Kṛṣṇa statements, he writes bhagavān uvāca. He's Bhagavān, as well as He's a historical person in the Mahābhārata. He never writes kṛṣṇa uvāca, he writes bhagavān uvāca.
Prabhupāda: You cannot realize self by your intelligence or by your learning or by your brain. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyaḥ na bahunā śrutena. So when the ātmā, Paramātmā, reveals Himself to somebody, he can understand. And that revelation is possible when you are a bhakta. Otherwise, it is not... It clearly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). It never says "By brain, one can understand." Never says, "By speculation, one can understand." No, this is not the process. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). In the beginning, He said kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Those who are siddhas, already liberated, out of them, many, many, still, they are unable to understand, tattvataḥ, in truth. But here He says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Only through bhakti one can understand in truth what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is not possible. Because one is scholar he can understand Kṛṣṇa, that is not the fact.
Prabhupāda: They say! What they say, they have no value. Because if it is a fact that one can understand God through bhakti, so whatever bhakta says, that is value. What a nonsense says, it has no value. It has no value. "They say." First of all, you have to think what they are. Are they speculator or bhakta? Just like beginning of Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa said bhakto 'si, "I am talking to you Bhagavad-gītā because you are My bhakta." So it is the subject matter..., bhagavān is the subject matter for the bhakta, not for others. Others, they will speculate only. They will never understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Charges four things, He wants: to always think of Him, become His devotee, worship Him, mad-yājī, and offer obeisances unto Him. Therefore this temple is there. These four things can be done even by the child. So why don't you do it? And the guarantee is that if anyone does like that, he goes back to home, back to Godhead. Every one of you should come to the temple, always think of the Deity, and if possible chant His holy name and offer Him some worship and obeisances. That will make you perfect. New York is such a big city, there are so many Indians, they should come. Where is the difficulty, to become a thinker of Kṛṣṇa, always thinking, man-manā? The Deity is there. As soon as you come, you get some impression of the Deity. So if you think of the Deity, where is the difficulty? (Hindi) Can anyone say that there is difficulty in thinking of Kṛṣṇa? And as soon as you think of Kṛṣṇa, you become a devotee, immediately. And as soon as you become a devotee, you'll offer something for worship. And at the end of worship, you offer your obeisances. There is no need of education or Vedānta knowledge. Vedānta knowledge means this, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. Anyone can do. And practically see. These foreigners, ten years, five years ago they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and because they are following this man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, they are now advanced devotees. So why Indians are lacking? Hmm? What is the objection?
Prabhupāda: Before he, if... First of all he must know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then he will understand that what is Kṛṣṇa. That he will understand from Bhagavad-gītā by this beginning. And at the end Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Lord. So if you know that Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Lord, then whatever He says is correct.
Indian man (3): That means the first thing is to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, and then...
Prabhupāda: Not blindly.
Indian man (3): Not blindly.
Prabhupāda: Assurance is there. Kṛṣṇa says kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhakta... (BG 9.31). If you remain a pure devotee, you'll never fall down. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). These are assurances. If you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why does He come, what are His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Simply.... This is cultivation, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cultivation. And Kṛṣṇa assures: tyaktvā dehaṁ, you have to give up this body, but for a devotee giving up this body means no more accepting another body. And nondevotees giving up this body, tathā dehāntara prāptir, another body. That is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. One may say both of them are dying. Yes, they are dying, that's all right. They are not dying, nobody is dying, but changing the body. But a devotee's changing not to accept any more material body. The nondevotee's changing to accept another. That is the difference.
Prabhupāda: And evaporation. Even the ocean can be evaporated by the air. So we have got this experience of the five or eight elements. They are physical because they are subjected to be cut into pieces, to be burned into fire, to be moistened, to be evaporated. But it is, soul is not affected. Then we have to think of—what is that. Therefore these scientists, they are puzzled. When the soul goes out of the body, they cannot imagine what thing is missing that the body is dead. Because they have physical ideas. But it is not physical. So everything is described. We have to study thoroughly and apply our brain. The brain must be sharp and finer tissues. Then spiritual understanding will be there. With dull brain, physical brain, we cannot understand. That is not possible. Therefore to spiritualize the brain, the senses, requires a process. Just like to keep a vegetable in frozen condition, it requires a process. Similarly, we have to undergo a process to come to this spiritual platform, to understand the spirit soul, the supreme being, God, and the relationship and the activities. We must adopt the process. And those who are adopting the process, they are making progress. Practical. So it is not impractical. Thousands of these Europeans and Americans, they, say, a few years ago, four, five years ago-say, at most ten years ago—they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. But now you ask them, they will explain.
Prabhupāda: Everything is explained there. If somebody comes to Kṛṣṇa even with material motive, ārto arthārthī... There are four classes of men: ārto, arthārthī, jñānī, jijñāsur. So jñānī, for the sake of knowledge, tries to understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. Jijñāsur, inquisitive, actually what is Kṛṣṇa. And those who are less than them, when they become distressed, artha, or in need of money, they pray to Kṛṣṇa. Still, they have gone to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are called sukṛtinaḥ. And one who has not gone to Kṛṣṇa, simply speculating, that description, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These things are there.
Mr. Sahani: Māyā is also very attached to everybody, it still can be jijñāsur and jñānī, (Hindi).
Prabhupāda: "Now you deliberate." But it is my duty, when father says, what is deliberation? I'll accept. That is intelligence. And if you do not do it, then you come to that karma, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). God offers, but the rascal, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, will not do it. They'll suffer. Go on, continue to suffer. He'll not do it, all right, go on, suffer. Next life if he becomes dog, the ear is there, but he'll not be able to hear what Kṛṣṇa says: finished. That chance is finished. This is going on. The dog has ear, big ear, bigger than me. But he cannot hear what is Kṛṣṇa saying. That is not possible. But this life I've got this ear, I can hear. If I don't take chance, then how much foolish I am. Next life, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I'll get next life, next birth. Now it is not necessarily that I'll get the next life also same ear. No. The ear may be different. The eyes may be different. The eyes are there, ears are there, nose is, but it is different.
Prabhupāda: Simply by seeing that Kṛṣṇa is lifting the Govardhana Hill, they'll, many of them will laugh, that "This is all mythology. A boy is lifting Govardhana Hill." Many of them will laugh instead of taking seriously. Because unless one is devotee, he cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as he sees the boy Kṛṣṇa is lifting Govardhana Hill—he does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa-he'll laugh.
Indian man (3): That is elsewhere.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Here also.
Yaśomatīnandana: Mostly here. (several Indians talking at once) (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you first of all learn Sanskrit, then you (indistinct). If there is (indistinct). This practice should be stopped. If you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, and if you want to preach your own philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, don't do this preaching. You preach your philosophy, your (indistinct). You can preach any philosophy you like, but don't take Bhagavad-gītā and (indistinct) on it. (?) That is my (indistinct). That is being done. That is being done. So therefore, instead of studying, collecting so many literatures, why not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach? And as evidence to prove he is (indistinct) ...all over the world. Before me for 200 years there was preaching of Bhagavad-gītā. Not a single person became... It is the history of (indistinct). Now you see thousands. Why? Because there is no interpretation. There is no interpretation. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We are presenting, "Here is God." You are searching after God, Kṛṣṇa, and they are accepting. They do not (indistinct), what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: You cannot make a mass meeting and pass resolution and you'll understand Kṛṣṇa. It is not like that. Workers must be also very śreṣṭhas, not ordinary workers. He must understand Kṛṣṇa. Then he can... It is not foolish, what kind of (indistinct). So if you want to prove Bhagavad-gītā, find out the śreṣṭhas of the country, sit down. Not that at mass conference—you bring meeting (?) And preaching. Select! If you understand then you can preach. But if you do not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, how to understand Bhagavad-gītā, what is Kṛṣṇa... And Kṛṣṇa says that
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all one has to become siddha. And not only you become siddha, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), even one is siddha it is very difficult for him to understand-tattvataḥ. What Kṛṣṇa means, to understand, it is not so easy job. And again He said, He explains that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55).
Prabhupāda: Then it is very difficult to make you understand. Everyone knows what is Kṛṣṇa?
Indian man: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Then you should learn it, what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said, anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is liberated. Because you do not know, you are not liberated. Otherwise, as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa you become liberated.
Indian man: It is plain fact. I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So try to understand Kṛṣṇa from the right source. Otherwise, you will remain a rascal. That's all. That is your first business, to understand Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is explained in so many śāstras. If I am so rascal that still I cannot understand, that is my misfortune.
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is... Why Kṛṣṇa? You are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. You are nitya, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, you are nitya. Why do you say Kṛṣṇa existed 5000 years ago? He is existing always.
Mr. Malhotra: Always existing there. (indistinct) Within you, within oneself.
Prabhupāda: No no. You are also nitya, but you are part and parcel of that nitya. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). God is nitya, you are also nitya, God is also living, you are also living. What is the difference between the two? That one person He is maintaining all of us. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. So this is knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. God is one. I am also individual. But we are many because we are all living entities. But God is one. We are controlled by God or God's nature. We are not one.
Prabhupāda: Religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. But he does not recommend to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. What does he know about Kṛṣṇa? That is the difficulty. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is religion, and he is preaching religion?
Guest (1): He's supposed to be one of the biggest propagator of Gītā. He had Gītāra jñāna yajña in Bombay. There were thousands of people there.
Prabhupāda: False, everything false. Misled. He does not recognize Kṛṣṇa, he does not recognize religion, and he is religious.
Guest (1): One of the best religious leaders. That's what people think.
Prabhupāda: All the Vedāntists of India could not do that. That's a fact. How it has become possible? Because we are simply speaking what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. That's all. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa... That's all. I do not claim that I am Sanskrit scholar, I am this big man, that man, no. Whatever books I have written, only about this-Kṛṣṇa. In our book in every page you will find Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. My Guru Mahārāja, if we used to write some article, so we wanted to show him how it is written. So he was very busy. So somebody would read and Guru Mahārāja would say, "How many times he has said 'Kṛṣṇa'?" (laughter) If he finds that in every page there is Kṛṣṇa, it is all right. That's all. (laughter) So we are making Vedāntist, "How many times he chants Kṛṣṇa?" If he chants always Kṛṣṇa, yes, he's Vedāntist. That's all. Bas. Because śāstra says, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). That is being effective. These boys, their forefathers or their father, grandfather never knew what is Kṛṣṇa. But kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. So unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no question of Vedānta. That is my point. (Hindi) That is real Vedānta. And the Vedānta says also... If you actually read Vedānta, what is the beginning of Vedānta? Boliye? What is the beginning?
Prabhupāda: First of all, try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Then go to the sari of gopī. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa and you are going to His gopīs. This is another malinterpretation. You are studying Bhagavad-gītā, talk of that. In the Bhagavad-gītā the gopīs' saris are not mentioned. So why you are bringing gopīs' saris now? This is our fault.
Guest (2): Normally, you know our people...
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is our fault There is no mention of gopīs' saris. We are talking of Bhagavad-gītā, why you are bringing gopīs' saris?
Guest (2): Because that...
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, it is known. It is known. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: (BG 15.7) "This life is my part and parcel." As soon as you study what is this life, you understand Kṛṣṇa, quality, what is Kṛṣṇa. So here is the hint, that Kṛṣṇa said mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). So it is very small particle. That is also mentioned in the śāstra:
- satadhā kalpitasya ca
- jīvo bhāgasya vijñeyaḥ
- sa anantāya kalpate
- (CC Madhya 19.140)
The measurement of soul is given there in the śāstra: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So everything is there. It is not matter. And that is instructed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Nāyaṁ śāstra... Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca. "This spiritual spark cannot be cut into pieces." Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned into the fire." So... (aside:) Come on. But these rascals, they are seeing that "The body is burnt into ashes, so everything is finished." And Kṛṣṇa says, adāhyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Not... You are going to produce some film. Begin from the first chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why you jump over the Tenth Canto? That is kept very confidential. Unless one understands... By understanding nine cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has no entrance. Just like you cannot enter into the law college unless you are graduate. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has arranged in such a way that one should understand what is Kṛṣṇa by reading these nine cantos. Then he can enter into the Kṛṣṇa's līlā and Kṛṣṇa's birth. What is the purpose? He could have given Kṛṣṇa... Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is for Kṛṣṇa. So we have named this, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-katha. So first Kṛṣṇa-katha is: Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. Present Bhagavad-gītā. Then one accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality... Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Prabhupāda: No, our... Just like we are making Kṛṣṇa consciousness propaganda all over...
Guest (2): That, education, not for... Education.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. What is Kṛṣṇa you should understand.
Guest (2): That is education, not propaganda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these boys, they are advised to follow the regulative principle: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no fish, no egg, no onion. So many "no's."
Guest (2): That is also...
Guest (1): No, Guruji, you cannot take these persons who are by this strictness as your disciple only.
Prabhupāda: No. Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: But your grandmother did it, all right, but now you are asking, "What is God?" This is your position. Your position is that you are asking, "What is God?" That means you do not believe what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why you are asking, "What is God?"
Guest (2): I tell you...
Prabhupāda: Now first of all, you answer this. Yesterday the question was "What is God?"
Guest (2): The gentleman asked.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You say the Orissa is whole Kṛṣṇa-bhakta, and he's asking, "What is God?" This is your position.
Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa devotee... You are saying that your Orissa is very much great advanced in understanding Kṛṣṇa, and your Orissa man is asking, "What is God?" This is contradictory. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise there was no question to ask, "What is God?" Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). He should have known. But you have forgotten. Admit this.
Guest (1): Oh, definitely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore you have to learn from the very beginning. In foreign countries, Indian students, they say, "Oh, Swamiji, what will be done by this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa? We require technology." They say like that.
Guest (2): Indian students.
Prabhupāda: We have rejected. Otherwise why there was so much talk, yata mat tata pat? Why yata mat tata pat? The Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa is saying, mām ekam. And yata mat? What is this nonsense? Admit that you have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, or you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why bring this all question—"What is God? Yata mat tata pat. Why Kṛṣṇa was killed?" Kṛṣṇa can be killed?
Guest (2): He asked?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Who asked?
Guest (2): That gentleman yesterday was saying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Why Kṛṣṇa was killed?" Just see how rascal question this is.
Guest (2): He was not killed. Kṛṣṇa was not killed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is the... Kṛṣṇa must have everything. Otherwise how He is God? God's definition is that everything is emanating from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). He's God, the original source of anything. Anything and everything. Then He's God. So if sex life is not in Kṛṣṇa, then wherefrom it comes? Does it drop from the sky? You rascal, you do not know the science.
Hari-śauri: And with Kṛṣṇa's sex there's no inebrieties.
Hari-śauri: When Kṛṣṇa has sex life there's no inebrieties. There's no abortion and contraception. With his sex life there's so many bad things.
Prabhupāda: No, first of all, wherefrom the sex life comes if it is not in God? You make God impotent. But we do not make. Why He should be impotent? Then He's imperfect. If He's not potent, then He's imperfect, and God is all-perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are taking Kṛṣṇa on your level. You are such a rascal. You do not know Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddh... (BG 7.3), yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. You are taking Him on your level. Therefore you are trying to criticize Him. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is your ignorance. What is food for one is poison for others. So for you it is poison, not for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is God. He has everything. He can use everything. That is God. He is not restricted by anyone. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Who can restrict Him? Then He's not God. If by a third-class man like you He's restricted of His sex life, then He's not God. He becomes under your control. But Kṛṣṇa is īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). He's the supreme controller. How He can be controlled by your so-called goodness and badness?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they love that. Of course, Bhagavad-gītā is the most well known, but people enjoy that Kṛṣṇa book. From the Kṛṣṇa book they get the clear idea who Kṛṣṇa is.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was my... "Let them know at least what is Kṛṣṇa." That is selling nicely.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very nicely. I would say that the lay public, that is to say the people who attend our temples but are not becoming the full-time devotees, they especially read Kṛṣṇa book and Gītā.
Prabhupāda: And that theologian, he says, "I want to support Kṛṣṇa." He said?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. "It must be Kṛṣṇa's name; otherwise I'm not..."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Then he has become devotee.
Prabhupāda: So if I can teach them, who did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, I cannot teach you? I can teach you. But you won't take the teaching. That is the difficulty. Stubborn. That is difficulty.
Indian man (1): Swamiji, we have thrown ourself on his lap, Swamiji. There is... (indistinct) We have thrown ourselves, performed everything. We have left our home, everything.
Prabhupāda: But what for?
Indian man (1): And he's our bread, and he's our... He'll look after us. That's all.
Prabhupāda: What for? Śrama eva hi kevalam.
Indian man (1): Everything...
Prabhupāda: It is śrama eva hi kevalam.
Prabhupāda: That is your blindness. You do not see the...
Indian man (3): I don't find any difference between Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the concept of our Brahman.
Prabhupāda: No, then you do not know what is Brahman, what is Kṛṣṇa. That means you are not fully in knowledge.
Indian man (3): Ācchā... It is not a name, sir.
Prabhupāda: It is clearly stated, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate.
Indian man (6): Are we not catching only names and forms?
Prabhupāda: You can do anything nonsense. Who cares for you? The śāstra is there.
Indian man (6): Hari means knowledge(?). Vāsudeva means...
Indian man (2): Very passing reference he made once.
Prabhupāda: Why? That means he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (3): Who made this reference? Who made this passing reference, where Kṛṣṇa is...?
Indian man (2): Gandhi made...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhiji.
Prabhupāda: I don't speak especially of Gandhi, but there are so many. Everyone takes Bhagavad-gītā and misinterprets in his way. Why? Boliye. Why they should misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? What right they have got?
Prabhupāda: "Let me remain Your servant janmani janmani." Mukti means no more janma. So He doesn't want even mukti. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi. For a devotee, either this life or next life, the business is the same, to serve Kṛṣṇa. So this verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma... (SB 5.5.4). People are mad after sense gratification in different ways, so Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, no, this is not good. You have already obtained a material body as a result of your past karma, and you are suffering." Body means suffering. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). "So you have already got this body, and you are suffering. You are again trying to get another body?" Na sādhu manye: "This is not good." Our whole Vedic civilization is punar janma jayāya, to conquer over punar janma. And here Kṛṣṇa gives the very simple formula, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti (BG 4.9). If we simply understand what is Kṛṣṇa... And what is Kṛṣṇa, for that purpose, we are writing so many books. The scholars, they are appreciating. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is available very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65).
Prabhupāda: "My Lordship, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, You are the most magnanimous person of charity." Why? Now, kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya: "One cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, and You are directly delivering love of Kṛṣṇa." It is not seldom. If you want to love somebody, you must know him. Love is not with the air. If you want to love somebody, then you must know what he is and why should I love him. So nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Where is the question of love? If you do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, the question of loving Him does not arise. But here Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving directly love of Kṛṣṇa. That means Kṛṣṇa understanding is automatically—finished. Therefore He is addressed as the most magnanimous. So it is not at all seldom. As the age is fallen, the most magnanimous incarnation is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and He is giving directly Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-prema. You take it. Why don't you take it? It is not seldom. You do not like to take it. That is the disease. And that is aśraddadhāna. There is no śraddhā. Aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣāḥ, mām aprāpya (BG 9.3). How you can get Kṛṣṇa? There is no śraddhā. Therefore they must suffer in the cycle of birth and death. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra. So you voluntarily accept this cycle of birth; you don't accept Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: ...introduce. Now I see so many times.
Rāmeśvara: Two million copies sold by the end of this year.
Prabhupāda: At least they are under... Two million people know what is Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can't read that book and not know Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you read that book, you have to know something about Kṛṣṇa. Every page is about Kṛṣṇa, every word. One professor complained that the trouble with your books is that everywhere you talk about Kṛṣṇa. Even when Kṛṣṇa's name isn't there, you put it there. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yaśodāmāyi was always thinking of Him, "Here is my son. How to give protection? How to give Him food? How to..." She did not that He is God, but she knew. She knew. Gopī knows. He did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. They know "There is God." That's all. That God is in front of them, that they did not know. They thought, "Our beloved child, beloved friend, dearmost friend..." That's all, absorbed in Kṛṣṇa. That is the..., their purpose.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They weren't distracted by Kṛṣṇa's opulences as God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They weren't distracted by Kṛṣṇa being God. They were simply seeing Kṛṣṇa. (break)