Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs, they suffer only. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate (SB 10.14.4). In Bhāgavata it is explained, "Their gain is only suffering." That's all.
Mr. Sar: That's why they . . .
Prabhupāda: Huh? Bhaktim udasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye (SB 10.14.4). Kevala-bodha-labdhaye.
Mr. Sar: Ah, kevala-bodha.
Prabhupāda: Simply trying to know, know, know.
Mr. Sar: Know.
Prabhupāda: You see? So, teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate: "Their gain is simply their trying for, that labor." Nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām: "It is exactly like one is beating the husk."
Mr. Sar: Yes, and not getting that thing.
Prabhupāda: There is no rice . . .
Mr. Sar: No rice even.
Prabhupāda: Simply "gad-gad-gad-gad-gad-gad."
Mr. Sar: "Gad-gad-gad-gad-gad-gad-gad."
Prabhupāda: That's all. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. So these impersonalists, they are trying to approach the Absolute Truth, but the method is not very good.
Mr. Sar: (mumbles verse) . . . avyaktam.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. No, Kṛṣṇa says . . .
Mr. Sar: . . . teṣāṁ paryupa . . .
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Mr. Sar: Ah. Yāvān yaś cāsmi . . .
Prabhupāda: He never says that "By mental speculation, one can understand." He never says.
Mr. Sar: He's beyond the reach of the mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu . . . (Hindi)
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
So to know God, it is not very easy job. And the Vedas also, it is stated, nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. So this process is not good.
Mr. Sar: Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute tam eva vivṛṇute tanūṁ svām.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes. Tanu. Tanu means form. Tanu means form.
Mr. Sar: That is, He shows His grace, isn't it? That means, isn't it, whom He selects, whom the Lord selects?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says that, "This My form is not understood by common men."
Mr. Sar: Divyaṁ dadāmi te cakṣuḥ (BG 11.8).
Dr. Patel: Mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14).
Prabhupāda: But actually, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). So gradual process, go to the Absolute Truth—Brahman, Paramātmā, and last is Bhagavān. The Bhagavān realization is the real realization, not Brahman, not . . . this is partial. (looking at something on beach) It is already dead.
Dr. Patel: No, it may be even living.