Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. Forty millions of years ago what He did, He remembers. Therefore His maraṇa. His janma is different. (Hindi) He remembers. You do not remember. You sambhava(?), but you do not remember. Why don't you understand the difference between your activities and Kṛṣṇa's activities? That is wanted. Why do you think that "Kṛṣṇa is as good as I am"? Then you'll be able to understand Him. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. As soon as you think that "Kṛṣṇa is as good as I am," then you are mūḍha. "Because He has appeared as a human being, therfore He is as good a human being like me." That is the conclusion of the mūḍha, rascals. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍha mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) ...bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). (break) ...understands Kṛṣṇa as He is, then he's allowed to, "Come on. Enter." Not before that.
This is the conclusion (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"that is conclusion"
|"that is the conclusion"
|"this is conclusion"
|"this is the conclusion"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So far I remember, I was also a student of philosophy, Dr. Urquhart, he said the philosophy is science of sciences. The science, there, I mean theory, begins from philosophy. Philosophy is the science of sciences. But according to Vedic verses, a philosopher is not a philosopher if he has not a different opinion from another philosopher, nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na... Therefore, through the philosopher you cannot come to the right conclusion. Tarkeṇa aprāptaś ca. If you simply go on arguing that will also not help you. If you simply read scriptures that will also not help you. Because there are different scriptures. Bible is different from Vedas and Vedas is different from Koran. So tarka... by argument you cannot come to the conclusion, by simply reading scriptures you cannot come to the conclusion. By following the philosophers you cannot come to the conclusion. Therefore the truth is very confidential. Dharmasyārtha... guhyam. It is kept very confidential. Then how to have it? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). You have to follow the great personalities who have actually realized God. That is the conclusion.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Haṁsadūta: Staten Island.
Prabhupāda: Crossing by ferry, one hour. Then waiting for bus, another hour. Then going to the office. Then after office, they're coming back. Again going. Whole day, they're dependent on everything. That is the condition in New York. It is to be supposed: the most advanced city. The same thing is everywhere. People are becoming dependent, śūdra, just like dogs. A dog, unless he gets a nice master, he's not happy. So at the present moment, all the population, just like the cats and dogs, they're dependent. They are not intelligent. Intelligence means he must be independent. That is intelligence. And people are struggling for independence. That is their motive. Everyone is struggling hard for independence. Because that is the culmination of intelligence. So our problem is that we do not know what we are. Neither we know how to get out of the miserable condition of life. Therefore we have no intelligence. We are like cats and dogs. This is the conclusion. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Guest (1): I couldn't follow you.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hṛdayānanda: Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Unless there is a real man, a real woman, how the illusory man and woman is there, doll? Illusion means which is not fact. So the fact must be there; otherwise how the illusion, reflection, comes? Illusion is exemplified by the mirage, water in the desert. So the man is or the animal is running after water, but that is not water. This is illusion. But that does not mean there is no water. This is the conclusion. Unless there is real water, how... (aside) You can give around here. How this illusion of water is there?
Bali Mardana: Does that mean it is not possible to conceive of something that does not exist somewhere?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real fact.
Prabhupāda: Normal chemicals must be. Then of the whole world... The material world is made of chemicals. So wherever you go and see, the chemicals in different, what is called, element, they are present. You cannot see but chemicals because you have no eyes to see the soul. So you simply see the chemicals which is produced by the soul. Just like anything you keep for some time, when it is decomposed, you find so many chemicals, extra. So now they are mistaking. The chemicals are not... They are effects, they are not cause. When a thing is decomposed, you'll find so many extra chemicals. Our point is that because a thing is decomposed, so many chemicals come out, not that on account of these chemicals it has given... A dead body. A dead body—not that because the chemicals have come, therefore he is dead, no. Because the body is dead, therefore so many chemicals have been produced. Try to convince this rascal like that, that "You are seeing the extra chemicals. They are not cause, they are effect." Sometimes when a rascal cannot understand two things, which is cause and which is effect, they misunderstand effect as cause or cause and effect. That is imperfect knowledge, illusion, taking the effect as cause. That is their mistake. Whole basic principle of their knowledge is mistake, illusion, on account of imperfect senses, and they are cheating. On account of imperfect senses, they cannot understand what is cause and what is effect. And without knowledge, they have become teacher. Therefore they are not teacher but cheater. This is the conclusion.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah! Ataeva śānta. There is śānti. You have to test whether by, by some desire, whether you have become śānta. That is not possible except Kṛṣṇa. When you serve Kṛṣṇa, then you will feel transcendental pleasure. Otherwise you cannot. Sakali aśānta. For mukti they have to do so many things, so many things. So desireless means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. This is desire. "My life after life simply My devotion unto You may be fixed up." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the beginning He says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jaga... (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). "No, no, no, no," not this." Then there must be some positive. And the positive is: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. With simply negative, what you'll do? Simply negative? You must give something positive. Then you'll be satisfied. You are serving somewhere. You don't get sufficient salary. So you desire to give up this, this service. Resignation. But if you don't get any better service, then what will be the result of resignation? You'll starve. Again you'll go, "Master, I did wrong. Please give me that service." So that is... The Māyāvādīs' position is like that. They want to become merged into the Supreme. But that is not possible. After some time... āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They undergo very good auster..., severe austerities and reach the brahma-jyotir, but there, everything being vacant, they cannot remain there. And they have no information of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they again come down. Patanty adhaḥ. He wants enjoyment, but there is no enjoyment. Simply thinking, "I am Brahman." What is the enjoyment there? You think like a rascal Brahman. Yes, you are Brahman already. Why these sputnik wālās, they go...? (Laughter)
Prabhupāda: Then so much control, that is another thing. But not control. "So much control" means no control. (japa) (break) ...admitted that we are controlled by nature. That you cannot refuse. That is foolishness. Now, next, how nature is working? That is also replied in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "The material nature is working..." Just like we are also taking the advantage of material nature, kṣity-ap-tejaḥ. Here is earth, but we can take this earth and make into brick and make a skyscraper building. So it is not that the earth itself is going to become a skyscraper building. I am living entity; I am utilizing. So nature means these five elements, eight elements. So that has been manipulated by another living entity. Just like the aeroplane is a combination of some matter, but it is being worked out by the manufacturer, by the pilot. Therefore that driver of the aeroplane or the manufacturer of the..., he's superior. So superior to the material nature is Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. (break) ...our position is that we are being controlled by the material nature, and, and nature, material nature, is controlled by Kṛṣṇa. So the sense is that one who is at all sensible, that "After all, the controller is Kṛṣṇa. So why not directly under control of Kṛṣṇa?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why through the material nature? I have to be controlled. I am being controlled by the material nature; and material nature is being controlled by Kṛṣṇa. So why not being directly controlled? This is good sense.
Prabhupāda: So the Brahman realization is like that. Every living entity, he wants ānanda. Ānanda means just like we are walking together, talking together. This is ānanda. If I would have walked alone, it would have been no ānanda. I do not like. Nobody likes. So ānanda means there must be entourage. Therefore ānanda is with Kṛṣṇa. When we play with Kṛṣṇa, we dance with Kṛṣṇa, talk with Kṛṣṇa, serve Kṛṣṇa, take care of Kṛṣṇa, then there is ānanda. And simply to become one with the Brahman, then you will have to fall down again. Therefore jñāna-kāṇḍa is not perfect. And karma-kāṇḍa is, you can migrate from one body to another or one planet to another. You'll be brahmāṇḍa bhramite. You have to wander. And jñāna-kāṇḍa means you merge. That is also intolerable. Therefore unless you come to bhakti-kāṇḍa, there is no question of real life and bliss. That is the conclusion.
Dr. Patel: There are three schools of Vaiṣṇavism. But that... In that school, the preaching and everything in the worship is the same, more or less.
Prabhupāda: (break) The thing is... This is the conclusion, that guru may be worshiped as Kṛṣṇa, but the worshiper knows that "I am worshiping my guru not because he has become Kṛṣṇa, but he is the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is Vaiṣṇava.
Dr. Patel: All the Vaiṣṇavas, what he has said. Every time he has said the same thing.
Prabhupāda: This is the difference between Vaiṣṇava school and Māyāvādī school. Advaita-vāda and dvaita-vāda. They become very strong, at the same time, remain servant.
Dr. Patel: These śuddhādvaita-vādīs, their upper garment and lower garment the same as... (break) ...you call Māyāvādīs, they say that this is all humbug and nothing and nonexistence. They... (break) ...both are one and both are right and both are existent and both are... There is no illusion, as you say. The same thing.
Prabhupāda: Simultaneously one and different.
Prabhupāda: So there is no need of doing this or that. Simply always remember Kṛṣṇa. That is the conclusion.
Chandobhai:
- mām upetya punar janma
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
Prabhupāda: That is saṁsiddhi. They are mahātmās, those who are always remembering Kṛṣṇa. They are mahātmās. Not by the red dress. No, that is not mahātmā. Even in white dress you can become. If you always chant and remember Kṛṣṇa, you become mahātmā.
Chandobhai: Now there is a higher philosophy: ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16), mām upetya punar janma... (BG 8.15). No?
Dr. Patel: Mām eti janardana.
Prabhupāda: No.
Chandobhai: Mām evaiti kaunteya punar janma na vidyate.
Prabhupāda: Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ... Within this material world, these persons who are doing pious activities, they are promoted to the higher planetary systems. But even if you go to the Brahmaloka—that is the highest—where you can get millions of years, your life duration, but still, kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viṣanti (BG 9.21), you have to come back.
Prabhupāda: This is the conclusion, bhajasva mām. Again bhajana.
Dr. Patel: The highest...
Prabhupāda: Bhajasva mām. Again He's saying, bhajasva mām.
Dr. Patel: The highest comes now.
Prabhupāda: That is the highest...
Dr. Patel: Highest comes now.
- man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
- mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
- mām evaiśyasi yuktvaivam
- ātmānaṁ mat-parāyanaḥ
- (BG 9.34)
Prabhupāda: You know, while commenting this verse, Dr. Radhakrishnan, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. After reading so much he said, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Mūḍha. (laughs) There is a Bengali proverb, sat-khanda rāmāyaṇa pāde, sitera na baba.(?) After reading the seven khandas..."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. After reading the whole Rāmāyaṇa he is asking, "Whose father is Sītā?" Similarly, this Dr. Radhakrishnan, after reading the whole chapter, he is advising, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see how much rascal he is. And he is passing on as a great scholar.
Dr. Patel: I will read this three times. Man-mana bhava-mad-bhakto. (goes on)
Prabhupāda: This is the conclusion.
Dr. Patel: "When completely yourself are settled in Me, you have got to come to Me. You can't go anywhere else." Again I will read the last. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī.
Prabhupāda: Very simple thing. You always think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā, you become His devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī, worship Kṛṣṇa, and namaskuru. Where is the cost? No expenditure. If you think of Kṛṣṇa, if you worship Kṛṣṇa, if you offer obeisances to Him... Therefore this Deity is there. For these purposes. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Simply by doing these four things, he is becoming liberated so much that he is going back to Godhead. That's all. (break) ...movement is very scientific movement, based on the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. Most scientific. (break) We may be proud. Because this is scientific, therefore it is so quickly progressing. (break) ...take. This is mām cult. (break) ...so I was, that "I want to start this movement," I was talking. So he very much appreciated and he promised in writing that "As soon as I retire I shall join with you." He wrote me.
Prabhupāda: Now the opposite. This is the conclusion, that one has to understand that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes, He is the origin of everything. So why do they divert their attention to other subjects?
Dr. Patel: Because of the māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And what is that māyā?
Dr. Patel: That Kṛṣṇa is... (break)
Girirāja: Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary human being.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: They think that "Kṛṣṇa's body is just like mine."
Prabhupāda: This is Māyāvāda. This has been explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā.
Dr. Patel: That's right. It was in me. Any of your ideas, it is, other than Kṛṣṇa, is māyā.
Prabhupāda: Please let me explain. Matir na kṛṣṇe. No, just explain. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. Parataḥ means "from other sources." Just like I am explaining. That is parataḥ. And svato means...
Dr. Patel: Means Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. A dead body immediately goes down in the water, but a living body floats. So this is the example, that because viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthita. Because Kṛṣṇa enters this material world as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, therefore it floats. Just like this airplane. It is floating so long the pilot is there. If the pilot is not there, it will not float, however good machine it may be. It will not float; it will come down. These are the ex... (break) ...soul, the spiritual spark, even in minute quantity, it can float the heaviest matter. This is the conclusion. (break) ...so high and if the pilot is killed some way or other, no more floating, come down.
Mahāṁsa: So this laghimā siddhi is also being attained by the material scientists?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Mahāṁsa: This is also a siddhi, that they can invent a plane...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. To some extent. By material arrangement... The yogis can do still more. Without any material machine, they can float. They can walk on the water, becomes light. (break) ...man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). This is the process. (break) ...colleges, the students are being educated that there is no God. And they expect good behavior from them. And when they set fire in the bus, that is... "The students are so dangerous now." But you have made them dangerous. The educational system. They are protesting against the existence of God. (break) ...so-called swamis. And they are also accelerating, "yes, no more. There is no God. Why you are searching God anywhere? There are so many gods loitering in the street. They are God." That is the statement of Vivekananda. "Why you are finding out, trying to find out God elsewhere. These are Gods." (break) ...if required, one may come, very easily, one may take some time. But we should go on preaching.
Satsvarūpa: To imagine that God has a form. Man imagines God, not that God exists originally, but man imagines God based on his own form.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anthropomorphism it is called. They create a form, but that is not the fact. God has His eternal form. That I explained. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means form. And it is sac-cid-ānanda, means eternal, full of knowledge and... Just like Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. People are accepting, because that is real knowledge. And nobody reads other books so carefully. And this Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world. All big, big scholars, big, big philosophers, theologists, they read. Because that is real knowledge. That is the proof. It is real knowledge. Cit. Sac-cid. And one who is giving real knowledge, it is natural conclusion, he has got eternal body. We cannot give real knowledge because we forget. As we change our body, we forget. Just like at night we dream, but we forget the body, this body. In another body we go to some dreamland. So because we change body therefore we forget. And because Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge perfect, past, present and future, therefore it means that He has got eternal body. This is the proof. One should understand everything with logic. Is it not? We forget because we have no eternal body. Last birth, what I was, what you were, we have forgotten, because changed body. Death means forgetting. So because Kṛṣṇa is giving perfect knowledge of past, future and present, therefore it is to be understood that He has got eternal body. And eternal body means there is no misery. Misery means janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), to take birth, to die... (aside:) (Hare Kṛṣṇa.) And to suffer from disease, to suffer from old age. These are the miseries. So because Kṛṣṇa hasn't got this temporary body, therefore He is not suffering from these things. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, you will see always, young man. You will never see Kṛṣṇa's picture as old man, because He is eternal body. This is the conclusion.
Prabhupāda: They must. That is your inference.
Pañcadraviḍa: What else...? In the middle of desert...? Babylon, Israel is all desert country. What will they do with sheep? They are not making wool coats.
Prabhupāda: Then why he has said, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then hypocrisy. Then you reject Jesus complete. He is a hypocrite. Yes. That is the conclusion. How can you follow hypocrite? Huh? Is that all right? If Jesus Christ himself killed animals and he said, "Thou shalt not kill," then he is a hypocrite. Then he cannot preach. He is a hypocrite. You are bringing Christ for condemnation. But how a hypocrite can be the head or can be the religious man or can be...
Akṣayānanda: It is not that we are saying he is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: He is proving.
Akṣayānanda: He himself, the Christian is saying that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
O'Grady: Our manifestations of love are manifestations of God.
Prabhupāda: Ah... Because we are part and parcel... Just like son born of a particular father, he has got the symptoms, so because there is loving propensity in God and we being part and parcel of God, therefore we have got this loving propensity. This is the conclusion. Unless the loving propensity is there in God, where we get it?
O'Grady: Maybe it's generated in you by the need...
Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of "maybe." It must be, must be.
O'Grady: Oh, very... Yes, I accept the strong word.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no question of... Because we have defined God, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). God is He wherefrom everything emanates. That is God. So love, love or even fight. The fighting propensity is also there in God. And loving propensity is also there in God. But His fighting propensity and loving propensity—absolute. Just like in the material world we have got experience, fighting propensity is just opposite the loving propensity. But in God, either fighting propensity or loving propensity, they are one and the same, therefore He is absolute. That is the meaning of absolute. Just like we get from śāstras. The so-called enemies of God who is killed by God, he also attains perfection.
Prabhupāda: This is the point. Just like I've already changed. I was a child, so small. Where is that body? That is no longer existing, But still I remember that I had the body. So I changed that body so many times. Similarly, when this body will be useless, I change to another body. This is conclusion. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā.
Yogeśvara: (French)
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
(French) "As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."
Prabhupāda: So, not only the animals. The trees, the plants, the insects, the birds, the bees, the aquatic animal: fish. Everyone has got soul. So anything, which has got life symptom, it is due to soul and so long the soul is there the change of body takes place. A child born, if it is dead, the change of body does not take place. You cannot understand?
Lady (2): No.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, that you have to search out such person. Otherwise your knowledge is imperfect. Now that question will be: "How to find out such person?" The next question will be. But unless you approach such perfect person, you cannot have perfect knowledge. That is a fact. Therefore the conclusion is that we should not speculate about perfect knowledge, but we should try to approach the perfect person and receive knowledge from him. This is the conclusion.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's more or less saying that in the Catholic church how they also demand the same type of faith. He said they all have a bad experience with that. And then he more or less...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I can understand. The thing is that everyone can take advantage of this statement that "I am perfect." Just like so many rogues and bogus persons come. But it is your duty to know whether he is perfect. It is your duty to test whether he is perfect. That requires intelligence. If you unintelligently accept some bogus person as perfect, that is your fault. You must be assured that "The person from whom I am asking, he is perfect." Then you take it. Otherwise don't take.
Indian man (1): A lot of dangers will be there. We'll be putting ourself into trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are in trouble. Even last war, when the trouble was too much, they began to go to the church. Even Churchill. And one gentleman—he is my Godbrother in Germany—he told me, after this war many German men and women became atheist. Everyone went to the church and prayed. Especially women prayed for return of their husband, brother, father. And nobody returned. So they thought, "There is no God. So forget about all these things." People became atheist. So this risky civilization is going on. They don't want to know what is God, neither they want to satisfy Him. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just the opposite, that "Here is God. You satisfy Him." That's all. "Never mind what you are, but by your occupational duty you satisfy Him. That is perfection." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And this is taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa ultimately said this: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). In the beginning He said, yat karoṣi yat juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad arpaṇam: (BG 9.27) "Do it for Me." Yat karoṣi. It doesn't matter what you are doing. And very good work or bad work or anything, when He says, yat karoṣi, means "Whatever you are doing, do it, but the result give Me." Kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. This is His desire. And at last again He said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, and if somebody would say that "Simply I have to satisfy You? Then I have to satisfy others also. If I do not do, then I will be sinful," that, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "Don't worry. If there is any reaction, not doing other duty, simply to surrender to Me, and if there is sinful reaction, then I'll give you protection. Don't worry." This is the conclusion. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all, without any malinterpretation. Everyone is interpreting in his own way. But we are not interpreting. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And it is becoming effective.
Yoga student: God is seen in the form of the saints.
Prabhupāda: That is another. That is secondary. But God has got form. That is the conclusion. But we cannot see with our present eyes. That is described, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grahyam indriyaiḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). By your these blunt senses... The same thing. Just like I see you. What I see you? Your body. You see me—my body. And when the body is there and the soul is not there, then it is lump of matter. You kick it out and nobody will protest. If a dead body you smash with your legs and boots, nobody will say that "Why you are doing this?" But so long the soul is there, if somebody is smashed like that, immediately there will be protest from all side, "Why you are doing this?" So the people have no knowledge about the real form. Therefore they say formless.
Ānanda-mārga woman: I said when I surrender to God...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that means God is different from you; otherwise how you can surrender to Him?
Ānanda-mārga woman: Right. When I am out, off in the world, when my mind is working, then I'm separate from God. I have made myself separate from God by the senses, by my mind, thinking. But then, when I...
Prabhupāda: Then you have to accept that you are one and different from God simultaneously. That is the conclusion, that you say sometimes that you are one, and at the same time you say different, therefore the philosophy comes to this point, that you are simultaneously one and different from God.
Ānanda-mārga woman: The whole thing is that the God is inside of me...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ānanda-mārga woman: ...and for me to realize it, to become one with it, to realize it, not to be away from it, I have it...
Prabhupāda: Then who will realize? You are different to realize. You say the God is within you. Therefore God is different from you, but He is within you. You require to realize. Therefore you are different from God. Otherwise there is no question of realization.
Prabhupāda: That I can understand, that sometimes you realize that you are one, and sometimes you realize that you are different. That means simultaneously you are one and different from God. This is the conclusion. Acintya-bhedābheda. This is the philosophy, acintya, inconceivable, one and different, one because we are one in quality, and different in quantity. That is our position. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānṁ. The Vedic information is like that, that He is the Supreme Being amongst all beings. He is also being, we are also being, but He is the Supreme Being. So as being, we are one, but as Supreme and subordinate, we are different. This is the conclusion. As being, living being, we are one. That is not very difficult. Just like in your country the king, the Shah, he is also a being and you are also a being. But he is the supreme being in this country. Although as human being you are equal, but so far his power, his position is concerned, he is different. Similarly, as being, we are one with God, but so far the power and position is concerned, He is too big, the great. We are subordinate. This is our position. That is the right conclusion.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: God is seen in the form of the saints.
Prabhupāda: That is another, that is second maybe, but God has got form. That is the conclusion, but we cannot see with the present eyes. That is described, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). By your, these blunt senses.... Same thing, just like I see you, but I see your body. You see me, my body, and.... But the body is there, and the soul is not there then it is lump of matter and you kick it out, nobody will protest. If a dead body is smashed with your legs or boots, nobody will say (indistinct). But so long the soul is there, if somebody is smashed like that, immediately they will protest. (indistinct). So people have no knowledge about the real form, therefore they say formless.
Devotee: When the body changes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, does that mean that also that the real form changes?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee: Because the body...
Prabhupāda: No, body changes but the spiritual form is the same.
Prabhupāda: So you are increasing this cancer. Very comfortable at home, but there is cancer.
Paramahaṁsa: But now we have almost got the cure.
Prabhupāda: You have, all right. My point is that you have so many things, but the suffering is going on. That is my point. You increase your means of diminishing suffering, but they are coming in a different way. So the sufferings cannot be stopped. That is not possible. This is the conclusion.
Śrutakīrti: But we're learning how to enjoy even the suffering, make the best of it.
Paramahaṁsa: Best use of a bad bargain.
Prabhupāda: That is another bluff. That is another bluff. But then don't say that "We shall stop suffering." You can say that...
Amogha: No, we don't say we can stop it, but we can almost stop it.
Śrutakīrti: Minimize.
Prabhupāda: Not minimize. If you are increasing hospital, where is the minimizing? Every state is increasing hospitals.
Dr. Patel: A real scientist finds God's working in every cell, every atom, every molecule.
Prabhupāda: No, no, our point is unless one has become Vaiṣṇava, he remains a fool.
Dr. Patel: That is your saying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement of Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is a fool, rascal. That' s all. This is the conclusion. We are fool, undoubtedly, but we take the words of Kṛṣṇa. He is not fool.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) No, but He says, ye tu sarvāṇī karmāṇi mayi sannyasya mat-parāḥ.
Prabhupāda: The mat-parāḥ, this is mat-parāḥ. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, we accept it. That is mat-parāḥ. Mat-parāḥ means whatever Kṛṣṇa says, accept it. That's all. That is mat-parāḥ. And if I say, "I don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, whether He was existing," that is not mat-parāḥ.
Dr. Patel: That is different.
Prabhupāda: That is different.
Harikeśa: He protected Bāṇāsura.
Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? That means that proving that Śiva is a rascal. He gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use? Then nobody should become Śiva's devotee. That is the conclusion. Because he gives permission to somebody else to kill his devotee. They are trying to prove Lord Śiva is a rascal. What do you think? Huh? If I want your permission, please give me your permission, I shall kill your son, and if you say, "Yes, I give my permission," then are you not a rascal? By this example they are making Lord Śiva a rascal, that he has no common sense even.
Harikeśa: It's not fair. You have completely destroyed the opposition. (Prabhupāda laughs) There is no question of fight.
Prabhupāda: The actual fact is that Lord Śiva did not give permission, but he did not go to protect Rāvaṇa, because he knew that it was impossible to give him protection. That is summarized in Bengali, rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke, māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke. If Kṛṣṇa kills somebody, wants to kill somebody, nobody can give him protection. That is the conclusion. And if Kṛṣṇa protects somebody, nobody can kill him. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Huh? He was protected by Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva. Who can kill?
Kīrtanānanda: Why did Lord Śiva try to protect Banasura?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: Didn't Lord Śiva try to protect Banasura?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You must try, when your son is in danger, you must try. That is natural. That is not uncommon. You can save or not save, that is a different thing. But it is you duty, if somebody is under your protection, you must try to save him, even at the risk of your life. That is real protector.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Jayādvaita: (break) Instead of building you the house, we should print books, but I think we have to build you the house because the person bhāgavatam is as good as the book Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: No, that is the conclusion. Yes. Bhāgavata paragiya bhāgavata sthāne. One has to learn book Bhāgavata from the person bhāgavata. Bhāgavata paragiya bhāgavata sthāne.
Rāmeśvara: (break) ...beginning to come.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rāmeśvara: Just beginning to come.
Tripurāri: Now it is all finished?
Rāmeśvara: I was just told that last night the winds were blowing so hard that they took everything down so the plexiglass wouldn't break. And this morning, right after your class, they're going to put it all up again.
Tripurāri: (break) Rādhā-Dāmodara buses.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Yaśodānandana: To cure.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, Nṛsiṁha-deva might have done this or here or there, but He is our worshipable Deity, that's all. Why bother with unnecessary things? We know Nṛsiṁha is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara stha paramāṇu cayān... That is the conclusion.
Jayādvaita: We were just afraid that if we published a picture that was not correct, then you might become like Nṛsiṁha-deva.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayādvaita: We were afraid that if we were to publish a picture that is not correct...
Prabhupāda: So when it is disputed, why should you publish that picture? It is controversial. You should not print.
Reporter: I wouldn't think so. No.
Prabhupāda: So, there must be father. This is conclusion. So who is sanctioning about the father? The answer is in the Bhagavad-gītā: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am father." You cannot denying father; that is not possible. If there is mother, if there is child, there must be father. This is human sense. And animal sense is: "I don't care for father. There may be father, may not be..." That is animal sense. So do you want to keep the human society in such ignorance just like cats and dogs? The dogs do not care who is father. This movement wants to give education to the human society: "Yes, there is father." And that is actual fact. Without father how there is child? Is it possible? Then? For at the present moment, the human society is child playing on the lap of mother, that's all. In big, big motorcars, that's all. Without any knowledge of father. But will the human being remain simply satisfied with toys on the lap of mother, or you'll try to understand who is father? So we are satisfied with the toys, and playing on the lap of the mother. The motorcar is running very swiftly, head-break or neck-break speed, and they are thinking they are civilized, advanced. What is.... "Who is your father?" "Don't know."
Prabhupāda: That means if the church allows sense gratification without restriction, then they'll attend church. That is the conclusion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're dictating.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The mass is dictating. Same thing as in...
Prabhupāda: That means, conclusion is, on account of sinful life churches being closed. Not the Pope, but the sinful. Pope said, "You cannot do this sinful," and they are sinful. Therefore they desert their church.
Rāmeśvara: Even the priests, they said that when the Pope issued that document, they lost faith in him as the representative of God.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they're supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful, how the church will go on? Churches, they are expecting church must support abortion and child killing.
Prabhupāda: The body is always defective. Either child's body or your body or my body, it is always defective without the soul and it is effective with the soul. This is the conclusion. Therefore Arjuna was chastised by Kṛṣṇa that "You are giving stress on the body. This kind of conception is for the fools." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "You are talking like a very learned man, but a learned man knows always that this body is defective, either living or dead." The same body. Dead means the soul is not there, and living means the soul is there. The two conditions, effective and defective, is depending on the soul. The soul is important. You have to understand what is that soul. That is knowledge. Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. To understand the truth, what is the truth there, that without something this body is dead, no more value, and with that something the body is so valuable. So one who is intelligent, he'll try to find out what is that truth.
Prabhupāda: So how can I deny God? How can you deny your father? If you say "I've not seen my father," that does not mean you have no father. Ask your mother, she will reply, "Yes, you have your father." So the argument is forwarded that "We cannot see God; therefore there is no God." This rascal argument is being forwarded. Because you are speaking, you are existing, there must be father. That is conclusion. Without father, there would have been no possibility of your existence. You are speaking, talking so loudly, "There is no God." This is going on. "Because I do not see God, therefore there is no God."
Prabhupāda: You can... Because we, at the present moment, we cannot understand, except physics and chemistry, we cannot understand life. So as we do not understand life, so therefore the definition by negation is there. It is not physical, not chemical. It is something beyond. But by practical experience we can see that when there is life, a living man wants varieties. That's a fact. Varieties. Otherwise, why we disagree? I have got some varieties, you have got some varieties. So the conclusion should be tested that living condition or life is full of varieties, therefore the kingdom of life, the spiritual kingdom, must be full of varieties. That is the conclusion.
Vṛṣākapi: To be able to be so fooled, that is the greatest wonder, how it's so obvious that there's a creator, but yet one can say there is no creator.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That we are protesting, that "You rascal, you stop this nonsense talking." There is son and there is mother; there must be father. This is conclusion. And "I do not see father. I do not see that." But without father, how there can be son? This is intelligence.
Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, one the one hand you say the scientists are rascals, and on the other you say not to condemn them.
Prabhupāda: No, the rascal means when they say there is no God. Then they are rascals. Here is a scientist—he does not say that there is no God. Anyone who says there is no God, he's a rascal. He may be scientist, philosopher, or anyone.
Dr. Sharma: Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education? That education is not.
Prabhupāda: But artificially means that you accept the principle. So therefore we say that here is mother, land, and here is children, the plants, trees, birds, beasts, human beings. They are all coming from the earth. So mother is there, and the children are there. Then where is the father? You cannot say, "No, without father it has come." That is not possible. Then you are talking foolish. There must be father. This is conclusion. So how you can deny God? God is accepted in every religion as the supreme father or something like that, great. And God is there. But they say "Automatically coming" and big, big words. How do they explain? How things are coming from the earth, so many plants?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is by chance.
Prabhupāda: So God and His different expansions, they are of same power. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo... (Bs. 5.39).
Indian man: Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.
Prabhupāda: So He is existing with all the incarnations, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. So Rāma is not less than Kṛṣṇa, but He is incarnation. This is the conclusion.
Indian man: Because I was trying to refer to Govindāṣṭakam, Where it says, (sings) śrī kṛṣṇa rādhā āra gokuleśa gopāla govardhana-nātha viṣṇu, jīveti amṛtamedhadevo govindaṁ dāmodaram ada vetti(?). He's saying, śrī kṛṣṇa rādhā āra gokuleśa gopāla govardhana-nātha viṣṇu. That is what I was trying to see that is really... I know that say Kṛṣṇa's expansion is Mahā-Viṣṇu, but still, why do they say govardhana-nātha viṣṇu? That I was trying to understand. Please don't misunderstand me.
Prabhupāda: No, no, Govardhana... Every one is viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, like that. So all of them on the Viṣṇu category. That's all. Viṣṇu-tayā vibhāti. Viṣṇu-tayā vibhāti. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya dīpāyate viṣṇu-tayā vibhāti (Bs. 5.46). These things are there. So Godhead is viṣṇu-tattva. So sometimes Viṣṇu, sometimes Nārāyaṇa, sometimes Govinda, sometimes Kṛṣṇa, like that.
Indian man: Yes, you are trying to do sādhanas to see what...
Prabhupāda: First of all, understand this, that the soul is never born, never dies. But we are seeing birth and death. What is that birth and death? It is of the body. But you are different from the body.
Indian man: Yes, I am different. My soul is different, the ātmā different from the body. That is the conclusion.
Prabhupāda: Birth and death applies to the body. Not to the soul.
Indian man: Yes. That, your karmas, you enjoy and suffer according to your karma.
Prabhupāda: That is body, all body.
Indian man: That is body. How long you are going to do that?
Prabhupāda: So long you are not a devotee.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then this kīrtana... This is kīrtana, speaking. Whatever little fault is there, that will be rectified.
Rāmeśvara: He'll like it too. Coming into America to help fight the demons.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately do that. This is conclusion. Engage him in preaching, and this is the opportunity. You said that "We require so many." Similarly, Madhudviṣa can be engaged also in that way.
Rāmeśvara: Wow. I was thinking... I wrote him a letter. He was very happy to receive it. He posted it in the restaurant. I invited him to come to Los Angeles. I was encouraging him.
Prabhupāda: That I am asking him from the very beginning, that he come.
Rāmeśvara: If he doesn't feel comfortable coming all the way to India, maybe I can invite him to Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have sent him telegram, Madhudviṣa. I have sent him telegram that "You come."
Prabhupāda: Why? If he can produce many big men, he can have hundreds of women. But you cannot do that. Therefore you are restrained. You are bad. You better restrain. Don't have sex, because you'll produce cats and dogs. But one who is able to produce great brain, great philosophers, he should produce hundreds. You do not know how to produce good brain. Therefore you stop! Don't produce cats and dogs. For you it is "Stop." You do not know how to use sex. Therefore you should stop. (break) You should not any more use sex. But one who can produce better brains should have hundreds of times. You must know how to produce. That is Vedic civilization, dharmaḥ saṁskāra idam...(?) It is not a secrecy, how to produce brain. And because brain is not produced, therefore there is agitation, that they have no brain. They do not know the value of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You have been produced like cats and dogs; therefore you cannot appreciate. Therefore you should stop. But one who has power to produce brain, to produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, they should be use. Foodstuff is forbidden for a person who cannot digest. One who can digest food, he must eat sumptuously. There is no restriction for him. Food is not bad. One who cannot digest, it is bad for him. This is the conclusion. What is food for one is poison for another. If you cannot use sex power how to use it for better purposes, you should not use sex. What is that verse that Kṛṣṇa says? Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya... (BG 14.4).
Prabhupāda: That is also another foolishness. How much water he'll carry by pipe? (aside:) Where is pole. Take water from God. That is sufficient. Navadit tarims ca.(?) When there is water supplied by God, where there is no need of water there will be water. Just like on the hills, on the mountains, there is no need of water. In the ocean there is no need of water. But the God... "All right, take water here also." That is God's gift. You rascal, how much water you have got that you transport by pipe and this and that...? All rascals. Mūḍha. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. That is my language, always these are all rascals. Godless means mūḍha, rascal, duṣkṛtina. They will attempt so many things, simply waste their time and energy. Duṣkṛtina. Because they are rascals. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). And a human being should have intelligence, but they are lower, lowest status of the human being. Mūḍha, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. "No, the university education..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Everything is analytically spoken. Why all these things? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because godless, no intelligence. Anyone who is godless, he has no intelligence. This is the conclusion. They are intelligent amongst the similar rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's intelligentsia among the dogs, among the camels, among the hogs, and the asses. They will praise them, "Oh, you are so intelligent. You are so educated." Not human being. Just like dog receives his master, "Gow, gow, gow, gow." (makes growling sounds) So what is that reception, dog's reception? Similarly, these intelligent men are intelligent amongst a class of men who are compared with dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. If some man praises them that "You are so big. You are so big leader," he's also amongst this group. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. This is grave thing. Let understand it, that anyone who is godless, who has no idea what is God, he is a rascal. Immediately take him that he's a rascal. He may be prime minister, he may be president, he may be scientist, but we shall take him as rascal number one. This is our first understanding. Bokā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, bokā. So at that time I was thinking, "Everyone is bokā?" (laughing) Guru Mahārāja says, "Everyone..." "Even Rabindranath Tagore, he is also bokā?" Later on I could under..., "Yes. Everyone is bokā."
Prabhupāda: But from citric acid, you cannot get orange tree. That is not possible. A living tree can produce citric acid chemical, but citric acid cannot produce a living... Therefore chemical comes from living being, not the living being comes from the chemical. This is the conclusion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now we are in a better position because this Khorana, he just synthesized this gene last month. So now, with the synthesis of this gene, nothing is happening. Because this is what they thought: once they synthesize this, they will be able to understand life in terms of chemistry. But nothing is understood, though it has been synthesized.
Prabhupāda: Failure.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it has been completely failed. So now they are thinking about something else, that "Maybe what we thought was all wrong."
Prabhupāda: All wrong. Prove that. This is all wrong.
Indian man (1): Ākāra only.
Prabhupāda: If the dress has got hand and leg, then the person who is putting on the dress, he must have hand and... So this is the conclusion. When in the śāstra it is said that "God has no leg, no hand," that... In the Upaniṣad it said that "He has no leg, but He can walk swifter than anyone." So that means He has got a different type of leg. And that is summarized, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His vigraha, His form, is not material form. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśri... (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being, the foolish mūḍha-mūḍha means rascal-rascal thinks that "He is also one of us." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no," sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6), "I come here in My original, spiritual form." Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. So these are to be understood. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Because they cannot understand—they cannot make distinction what is spiritual, what is material-therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. First of all one has to understand what is material, what is spiritual. So unless one comes to the spiritual understanding, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Siddhaye means "for spiritual understanding." And yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3).
| Page Title: | This is the conclusion (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 16 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=46, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 46 |