Prabhupāda: This is our philosophy. We are preaching that.
Prof. Surface: There would not be room for both?
Prabhupāda: Both means?
Prof. Surface: For the two.
Jayatīrtha: Both economic development and spiritual advancement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can . . . actually there is no need of economic development. But if you think it is required, you can do that. But don't forget your real business. That is our proposal. We don't condemn, but economic development . . . just like in America. When I did not come here . . . of course I know that everywhere, everything is there. But I thought that, "America is very rich. There is no poverty, there is no crime, because they are rich." But when I came here I saw everything is the . . . as in India, so also in America. There is crime, there is poverty; everything is there. At least, they are voluntarily accepting poverty. Just like hippies, most of them are coming from rich family, rich father. But he has volunteered to lie down on the street. Why? Why he doesn't care for economic development?
Prof. Surface: Maybe he's had too much.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but that we see in India. On account of poverty, many men are lying on the footpath. And here also, in Europe, America, we see. Although he is coming from rich family, government is rich, government is endeavoring to take them back to nice place, they will not go. So these three classes of men—rich, middle class and poor—everywhere, either it is rich country or poor country. Then we have to accept: by nature it is so arranged that these three classes of men will exist. Then the question is, "Where is the benefit of economic development?" If these three classes of men will exist anywhere, so where is the use of economic development? Even one is placed in developed economic condition, rich family, rich, he is accepting poverty voluntarily. And there is a big park in Amsterdam, that . . . you have been there?
Brahmānanda: I've heard of it.
Devotee (1): It's called the Vondelpark.
Prabhupāda: Thousands of hippies are lying down there. In London I have seen in St. James Park, early, because I go for morning walk, that the police is kicking, "Ho! Get up! Get up!" And government has engaged men: "Why you are living like this? Come here. If you have no home, we are giving home." They don't care. Therefore the śāstra says that simply try to make man Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is required. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). In other life, either high-grade life, low-grade life, there was no chance of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. But the human life there is chance. Kṛṣṇa conscious means, when we speak "Kṛṣṇa," God. So that is . . . there is the chance. So the śāstra says, instead of endeavoring for other things, better you try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That will solve all the problems.