Caitya-guru: Taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya.
Prabhupāda: Hah. "So you are thinking like dog, all right, you take the body of a dog." And finished. Your human life is finished. And again wait for millions of years to come to the human form of life. Nature's law you cannot check. Daivī hi eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The law is there. The same example: if you contaminate some disease, the law is you must suffer from that disease. So they are thinking "free." That is their gross ignorance.
Hari-śauri: It's very important, then, to accept some tapasya.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hari-śauri: It's very important to accept some tapasya to purify your desires.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is. . . that requires tapasya. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). Tapasya means to purify the desires. Tat paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Therefore if you simply keep your desires to the service of Kṛṣṇa, you become purified.
Passerby: (singing) Govinda hari, gopāla. Harer jaya jaya, prabhu dina dayala hari.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Passerby: (carries on his way, singing) Govinda jaya, gopāla jaya. . .
Prabhupāda: This declaration of freedom is animal. Animal free.
Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you. They are struggling for false freedom, which is not freedom. It is becoming entangled. And when we voluntarily give up all freedom—"This is all nonsense. Kṛṣṇa, I surrender unto you," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19)—then he's really wise, when he fully surrenders to Kṛṣṇa.
Caitya-guru: Then he knows, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise how he'll surrender? He must be convinced that "Kṛṣṇa is everything, so let me surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Then he is wise. Otherwise he is an animal.
Harikeśa: A really wise person could understand that there's no choice but to surrender.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He must. He is already under the control.