Prabhupāda: What is called? Definition by negation. Nainaṁ chindanti—negation. So that you can have some idea.
Doctor: Of what it is.
Prabhupāda: It is not material. Because matter, chindanti, any matter it can be destroyed. It can be cut into pieces, it can be melted in fire, it can be moistened. So when we cannot understand things, it is given in the definition of negation.
Doctor: But then it's much better to worship God in form.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is intelligence. If you accept Kṛṣṇa immediately, man-manā bhava mad..., then your life is successful. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te (BG 18.65), He said. But they are not interested. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is a historical person. Why shall I think of Him? I shall think of oṁkāra." You cannot think of oṁkāra. You can hear. And as soon as you think of oṁkāra it comes from? There is no impersonalism. It again becomes personal. So they want to avoid personality and as well as think of Him—it becomes a very troublesome job. Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). They cannot think of avyakta, impersonal. But they are trying to think of. That is a very troublesome job. Kleśala eva avaśiṣyate.(?) Such attempt means he simply gets the result of his hard endeavor. That's all. He doesn't get any substance.
Doctor: So with faith accept the...
Prabhupāda: No faith—it is fact! Faith is blind.
Doctor: Faith is blind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Faith with good knowledge, that is nice. If you have good knowledge of Kṛṣṇa and you have faith, that is very good. But if you... Just like Māyāvādīs, they say, "Imagine Kṛṣṇa as God." They say, "Imagine."
Doctor: That is no good.
Prabhupāda: They are no good. Kalpana. They say, kalpana. Sādhakānāṁ gitarthaya(?) brahma-rūpa-kalpana. Rūpa-kalpana. But Kṛṣṇa's rūpa is not kalpana. It is fact. So kalpana is not faith, it is blind. Let me imagine some form of Kṛṣṇa. And therefore gradually, they come down to the position that any form you imagine as God, that is all right. They have come to this degradation.