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Proof (Conv. 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Prabhupāda: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the price. That's all. Yes?

Guest: You mentioned these miracles. The only miracle (indistinct) who has gone beyond the material encagement. That is what the yogi is trying, is striving to do, trying to go beyond the material nature. When one mentions miracles, it is surely a proof that he has actually transcended this material nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: But why, why are they trying to transcend material, transcend material nature? Who is doing these miracles? Or why try to do (indistinct) Why should human beings try to do (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: No. The yoga practice is like that. It is very good, that "Why we should bother ourself with such things?" That is the opinion of the devotees.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness more easily accepted among Indians and among Far Eastern peoples than among the Western peoples?

Prabhupāda: It is the easiest method conceivable because the method is so easy that we simply ask people to come and chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. And it is actually experienced that in this country, all my disciples, they are neither Indian, nor Hindu, nor they know the Sanskrit words, everything is unknown to them, but still, they are taking so seriously. That is the proof how it is easier, that it can be spread all over the world.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: What is your opinion of yoga and Zen? Do you incorporate any of their principles? Such as meditation for example?

Prabhupāda: Any principles of religion current in the world, they are all included in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, any principle. But just like if you have got two millions of dollars, the ten dollars, fifty dollars, five hundred dollars, five thousand dollars, or go on increasing, everything is included there, similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is perfect. Just like in New York there is a building, Empire State Building. It is 102 stories. So one who has gone up to the topmost story, 102, it is to be understood that he has passed over the fiftieth story or fortieth story or tenth story or all the stories. So one who has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he knows everything, the meditation, the yoga, this practice, that practice. Everything is there. That we can give proof. It is practically. So we have to simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be included there.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: This is right?

Yamunā: Yes. Well, no. It's five minutes slow.

Janārdana: Think so? I don't know. My watch is ten or five minutes fast. My watch is always fast.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, this is still slow. This is correct time now.

Guru dāsa: Your watch is still drop proof.

Prabhupāda: Because it is correct to the church bell. Yes. Church cannot be... (laughter)

Janārdana: So the ceremony will be at six, yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Six-thirty. One hour after. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (devotees offer obeisances)

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: No. If I say...

Guest (3): I'm trying to understand something, but you...

Prabhupāda: This is cotton. This is cotton. Everyone knows. But if I give you a lump...

Guest (3): Do you know that? Do you know that for a fact? How do you know this is not illusion? How do you know that? Do we know anything for sure?

Prabhupāda: What proof is that is illusion?

Guest (3): No, no. Wait. The burden of the proof lies on you because I don't claim it is cotton. You claim it is cotton. So...

Prabhupāda: How do you say it is not cotton. First of all prove it.

Guest (3): Initially...

Prabhupāda: No! First of all prove it that it is not cotton.

Guest (3): No, no. One moment. You claim that it is cotton, therefore the burden of the proof lies on you inasmuch as you have to prove...

Prabhupāda: Everyone will say it is cotton. Everyone will say it is cotton. That is proof. Everyone will accept this is cotton, made of cotton. Who will say this is not made of cotton? But if I give you a lump of cotton instead of shirt will you accept it?

Guest (3): I apologize. I don't mean to argue with you. I'm just trying to...

Prabhupāda: No, why not?

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: So many thousands of horses, chariots, elephants, maidservants, all decorated with gold ornaments. One cannot imagine even at the present moment. Therefore they talk of "legends." But actually such dowries were given when a king's daughter was married. Not only royal family, even in ordinary family still, those who are rich, they spend lots of money to be married, either son's marriage or daughter's. When one spends lots of money during the marriage of one's daughter and son he is considered to be really rich man. That is the proof that he is rich man. So we can begin. He cannot rise, this, what is called, Muktananada? That's all right. Where he is?

Devotee: Muktananda, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You come here. Girls may sit here. You can sit comfortably on this. (Devotees come in and sit down.) What is that?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna Mission, if I say it frankly, they distorted the Bhagavad-gītā to the greatest extent. Because they presented somebody, Ramakrishna, as God. Ramakrishna said that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Rāma," and they accepted it. But one thing is, anybody can say that "I am the same Rāma, I am the same Kṛṣṇa." First of all we have to see the proof. So many, there are many ways of to understand. So Ramakrishna Mission is pushing on this wrong idea. And another thing is that, supposing this Ramakrishna is the same Kṛṣṇa, then the philosophy is different. Ramakrishna's philosophy and Bhagavad-gītā's philosophy is different, because Ramakrishna says that you can accept any method, every method is all right. But Kṛṣṇa says only unto Him, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). "Give up everything, simply surrender unto Me." Now Kṛṣṇa says one: "Simply surrender unto Me," and Ramakrishna says that we can accept anywhere. So which one we shall accept? Kṛṣṇa's or Ramakrishna's? What is your opinion? If something is spoken by Kṛṣṇa and something is spoken by Ramakrishna, so which one we shall prefer to accept?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa... The author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja. Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha (CC Adi 5.205). He's not making a show, he's feeling like that, that "I am the lowest. Everyone is best, I am the lowest. Everyone is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, I am not engaged." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Oh, I have not a pinch of devotion to Kṛṣṇa. I cry to make a show. If I would have been a devotee of Kṛṣṇa I would have died long ago. I am living; that is the proof that I do not love Kṛṣṇa." That is the vision of the best devotee. He's so much absorbed in Kṛṣṇa's love that he sees, "Everything is going on; simply I am the lowest, therefore I cannot see God." That is best devotee.

Bob: So then a devotee must work for everybody's liberation?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. A devotee must work under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master. Not imitate the best devotee.

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Malaysia, I speak of Malaysia, Penang is in Malaysia. Dr. Chandra (indistinct).

Guru dāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So they worship Viṣṇu. And Buddha...Buddha-dharma is an offshoot of the Vedic religion. That is the proof, they worship Viṣṇu. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā.

Guru dāsa: But to this man, he says that's the proof that Vaiṣṇava is an offshoot of Buddhism, that Viṣṇu is in the Buddhist temple. He can say that.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru dāsa: This Caitanya who has written this book can say that since Viṣṇu is in the Buddhist temple that this proves that Viṣṇu is an offshoot of Buddhism.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the father of the saṅkīrtana movement. Saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. This is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This Lord, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, is worshiped by saṅkīrtana yajña, and those who are intelligent, sumedhasaḥ, sharp brain, they worship this Lord by saṅkīrtana. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. And, therefore, we worship Him with saṅkīrtana. This picture, He is being worshiped by saṅkīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti (SB 11.5.32). And they are all big men Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and others, followers. That is the proof. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, He is fair complexioned, but He is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam iti, He is describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. These are the statement, and He is doing exactly the same thing. His accepting sannyāsa order is also mentioned in the śāstra.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Devotee: Is that so...

Prabhupāda: Unnecessarily, false argument. Even Jesus Christ ate meat, you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, our best, I have found that the best argument is, you practice. Proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I shall go? No.

Devotee: A few minutes, I think, 'cause they are still packing.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: None of these religions have produced a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: None of them. A person who is detatched from material life.

Jayādvaita: I was reading in the Bible...

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like you'll find in our temple it is always crowded to the fullest extent. We require a more spacious home. But not all of them our initiated students. Out of them say ten percent may be our initiated students. But still people are coming to see. They are following. Gradually they will also become student. So it is a very important movement, scientific movement. I therefore request learned scholars like you, government, scientist, philosopher, they should study. For them we have written so many books. Not only that. It is not that we are simply chanting and dancing. If you are philosopher, if you are scholar, if you are scientist, we can give you proof in a scientific way, in a philosophical way, scholarly way; therefore these books are there. So my only request is that all the leaders of the society, they should come forward, study this movement and take to it. That will be beneficial. We don't ask blindly, just like one follows some faith or type of religion blindly, and after sometimes they give it up. No. We say, our predecessor Lord Caitanya says, caitanyer dayār kathā karaha avicara(?).

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There must be something ideal; otherwise how they will try to make it ideal? They are trying to be immortal. Unless there is something immortal, how they...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The actual ideality is there.

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhāgavatam: satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Finally proof.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If there would be no ideality, the scientists cannot think about ideality itself.

Devotee (1): (indistinct) think about the concept of living eternally because this was the teaching of the church that I was going to. And I used to become very frightened at having to go on and on forever because I couldn't imagine what I'd be doing during all that time. I used to try to put some end to it all. Now in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we understand that eternity is filled up with ideal activities and that eternal life is very blissful and full of knowledge. This concept is not there in any other teaching.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...body, and the body is considered as the dress, and the person who is dressed, that is within.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Just like this child, this is a dress. Now, after some days this dress will be changed to another dress. After some time another dress, another dress. This body is dress, we should understand, but the person who is putting on the dress... Just like I remember my childhood state, dress and condition, my youthful condition. So many things I remember. So although the body has changed—either you say it has grown or changed—I am the same. Therefore conclusion should be that after giving up this dress, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I must have another body. This is the proof of immortality of the soul and transmigration from one body to another. Now, there are 8,400,000's of different dresses. There are 900,000 dresses within the water, then plants and trees, then insects, then birds. This is evolution of different dresses. The spirit soul is passing through different dresses.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Just like when you pass through a house, sometimes if you don't see—the house is not properly taken care of, or there is no light in front of the house, there are so many garbages, we immediately say, "Oh, there is no man in this house." And as soon as you see house is very nicely kept, there is light and the garden is kept, we understand there is a man. So this is common sense. If things are going on, everything is going on so nicely, how you can say there is no management, there is no brain? How you can say? What is this nonsense? How you can say there is no God? Asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). These are the rascal, atheist proposition, asatyam. There is no proof in it. Zero. From zero it has come. Just see nonsense. Does anything come out of zero? You assemble zero, many millions of zero in one place, but still it is zero. Do you think that if you make zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, million times, has it any value? How do they conclude from zero such a management, cosmic manifestation has come? The flower is coming out nicely in its own way. The tree is coming. Human being is coming. Everything is in order.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: They always say they're right on the verge.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: They always say they're right on the verge.

Prabhupāda: That is also the future, in a different way. You have to accept that you do not know still what is the truth. You are expecting in future. That, that is the proof that your knowledge is imperfect. Why future?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because their present knowledge cannot...

Prabhupāda: It is, it is something like, giving post-dated check. I pay you one lakh of rupees, post-dated. Although I have no money,... What is the value of that check? Will anybody accept that check? "Oh, I have received the money." That is foolishness. Why future? You are talking of future, and you are talking of perfectness at present. What is this nonsense? You are claiming that your science is perfect, and, at the same time, when practical example wanted, you say; "I shall do it." The same example. I am saying I am millions, owner of millions of dollars. And you ask me: "Give me some payment." "Yes, I give you post-dated check." Will you accept? At present, if you give me five dollar, I see something tangible. And you're talking of big, big word, but you'll pay me in the future. So is it very sanguine proposal? And I am to accept it? So what kind of intelligent man I am also? You cannot produce even a grass by biological chemistry. You cannot do anything. Still you are claiming: "It is produced of chemistry, biology." What is this nonsense? Nobody questions?

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Locana: So where is the question of control?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why, in the ultimate analysis, the geologists, mostly when they trace the origin of life, they say everything started from matter. Living matters came out from non-living matters.

Prabhupāda: Where it is coming now? It came in the past and not in the now, and not at present? Wherefrom an ant is coming from this dust. Is there any proof? Even an ant does not come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In fact, there are several theories like that, about the origin of life. And they say starting from matter, all the living matters came from nonliving.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Why it is not coming now, rascal? I kick on your face with boots. Why it is not coming now?

Karandhara: If it happened before, it should happen now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They assume it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They assume it.

Prabhupāda: Assume, everyone can assume. That is not science. Assuming, then, everyone can suggest something like. You can suggest something, I can suggest something. What is the proof? We can prove that life begins from life. Just like father begets a child. Father is living and the child is living. That we can prove. But where is your proof that the father is a stone and the son is a child? Where is your proof? We say that life begins from life. The original life is Kṛṣṇa. That we can prove. But you say that life begins from matter. Where is this evidence that a child is born out of stone.

Karandhara: There's a miss... They say there's a missing link.

Prabhupāda: A missing link? Then I kick on your face. You're missing this kick. Now learn it. Nonsense. Here is the missing point. Just learn it. Write vigorous articles to kick on the face of these rascals. All of you. You have got so much advanced laboratories, advanced knowledge. You do not... even you are defying the authority of God. You have become so great. And you cannot prove that life is coming out of matter. That you are leaving aside for future. And I have to believe such a rascal? Do you think it is nice? You are talking all nonsense, and I have to believe you?

Karandhara: They say they have almost proof that some acids, they make some acids and it's almost like an animal. Just about, not quite, but almost.

Prabhupāda: Asses, asses?

Karandhara: Amino acids.

Brahmānanda: Asses.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: In a living, in a living entity in the living body, there are so many things, personality...

Prabhupāda: They have got personality, all the living entities coming out, the microbes. They have got their personality. If they're moving in this way, you stop. They'll move in this way.

"There is some block. Let me go this side." So there is personality.

Karandhara: But in the dead body, there's no personality.

Prabhupāda: That means that individual person has left. That is the proof, that is the proof of individual soul. Just like there are so many plants of the same species. One is dead. That individual plant is dead, but other species are living. It is not extinct. How can you say the species is extinct? How you can say? Darwin's forefather might be extinct. But the monkeys are there. What is the time?

Brahmānanda: Six-thirty.

Karandhara: Six thirty-five.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they're concluding, the scientists, that without having the real knowledge of their investigation. Because they are concluding that life started from matter, but there's no proof.

Prabhupāda: No proof. How they can say so? (pause) If they accept that life started from life, then they'll have to accept God, the Supreme Person. Just like by practical experience we see one life is produced by another life. The father, mother begets a child. Not that a child drops from the sky. Their test tube experiment also depends on the father and mother. So what is that? Where is the proof? In the test tube you mix some chemical and produce a child. Then your theory is all right. You cannot create even an ant, even a fly. And still you are claiming that you can manufacture human being?

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What they'll say manufacture means they will take a seed, that... But

Prabhupāda: But that means that is not... Originally, it is from life. Seed is from the life. So where is your proof that matter produces life? Then you have to accept: life produces life. According to our śāstra, within the semina of the father, the living body, living entity, takes shelter. And it is injected to the mother's womb and the two matters mixes and the body forms. This is our śāstric explanation. Not that the semina discharged by the father, that is life. No. Within that semina, the living entity takes shelter. And it is put into favorable condition. Then it develops the body. This is... We, we find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That putting of the living entity in a particular type of semina depends on higher authorities. The higher authorities will judge what kind of body this living entity, after leaving this body, will get. So by higher authority it will be directed to enter into the semina of such father, and it will be injected into the womb of the mother. Then you'll get, develop a particular type of body and come out and suffer or enjoy. This is the process.

Brahmānanda: If that semina is misused or wasted, then that disrupts the plan of the authorities.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this protest must be now. If they accept life started from life, then they will have to accept God. That is their difficulty. That is their difficulty. And practically we have no experience... We can see life started from life, father begetting child. We can see father is a living man, and another child will be born. But where is life starting from matter? Where is that evidence? Life starting from life, we have got practical experience, but where is the evidence that life started from matter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are assuming. There is no proof. They just think, they just assume it.

Prabhupāda: Assuming, what is that? There is no proof?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is no proof.

Prabhupāda: What is their proof? What they go on, proof?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are just speculating that life started spontaneously. There was a time, they said, it started all spontaneously, only once.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But life, whether begins from life or matter? That is the question. You are saying that life started from matter. We are saying life started from life. How to make solution of this question? For life starting from life, we can see practically. Birds, beasts, human beings, they are begetting children, eggs. The life from life, he's a living entity. That we have got proof. But where is the proof that life started from the matter? Where is that proof? Just give one instance that "Here is a life starting from matter." Where is that instance? Anyway, at least one audience protested. It will be recorded. And he said, "I do not know."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in any case, everything is controlled by the superior energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That superior energy is life. A small seed of banyan tree fructifies; there is life, and the big tree comes. So many wood, so many twigs, so many things, huge quantity. Here is the proof. Life is the origin. According to our Vedic description, Brahmā is first created. He is life. Not that matter is first created, then Brahmā comes. No. And Brahmā comes from Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is life, the supreme life. Then Brahmā creates this universe. That is Vedic version. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So life is the origin.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is working under direction. Why do the rascals say like that? The aeroplane is a big machine. It is flying, but under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the driver, pilot. How you can deny? So as the small spiritual spark can direct a so-called gigantic plane, similarly, the big spiritual spark is directing this whole cosmic manifest... What is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Without that spiritual spark, that airplane can be operated." You cannot say. That is not possible. You prove that "Without that spiritual small spark, this big 747 aeroplane will..." You cannot prove that. Where is your proof? You have to put that small spiritual spark. First of all the pilot body. Now, within that body, Kṛṣṇa says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ, tathā dehāntaram (BG 2.13). There is dehinaḥ. There is a proprietor of this body. So that proprietor is 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair, very, very, small, atomic. On account of that atomic spiritual energy, there is working. This is bare fact. That small atomic spiritual energy is within this body, and therefore the body is working, and therefore the plane is working. Where is the difficulty to understand? Now, this man thinks himself very stout and strong, but why he is stout and strong? On account of that small spiritual spark is there. As soon as the small spiritual spark is gone, stout and strong has no meaning. Immediately all the birds will come. Vultures will come and eat him, eat the body. Immediately.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the first lesson. You do not understand? You are a child, now you're a grown up boy. Where is your childhood? Where is that body? Ha? The dead body does not exist but you are existing. That means you're eternal. Body has changed, but you have not changed. Circumstances have changed, but you have not changed. This is the proof of (indistinct). What do you want more? You may remember that I did yesterday these things, today I remember yesterday's activities, but your body of yesterday is not this body. Do you admit or not? As a scientist, the body has changed already. He cannot say that 1973, twelfth May yesterday. He cannot say. It is already changed. But you remember everything of yesterday. That is eternity. The body has changed, but you remember everything. Therefore you are eternal, body's not eternal. This is the proof. Simple proof, even a child can understand. But they'll not understand. That is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that more? It is a simple fact. Just like yesterday, day before yesterday, day before that we saw that stool. We therefore criticize. You are seeing for the last three days the stool, it is not cleansed. But day before yesterday's body, yesterday's body is not this body. And my body has changed, but I remember. Therefore I'm eternal. This is the proof. Eternity means I'm so... my body's changing, but I'm not changing. Just like, I'm old man. I sometimes think, "Oh, I was jumping like this and now I cannot jump." So my body has changed. But I want to jump. But I cannot do it. So that jumping propensity is my eternal propensity. But due to this body, I cannot do it. This is (indistinct).

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: It is not faith.

Krishna Tiwari: Whatever.

Prabhupāda: It is fact. It is science.

Krishna Tiwari: Science. It is this kind of science then, because there is no way to prove it. When a person finds...

Prabhupāda: There is proof. There is proof.

Krishna Tiwari: ...anywhere in the world...

Prabhupāda: You don't say there is no proof.

Krishna Tiwari: ...in science, you can do the same thing in your place.

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is proof. There is proof. Because, because the laws of nature is being controlled, that is the proof there is somebody controlling. That is the proof.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, okay, suppose we grant that. Suppose we grant that, that that is the case, then what we do about it?

Prabhupāda: So that, you do not know that. We know that. That is our difference.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We do not know anything. We are to be considered all fools and rascals. That is our position. As soon as we come to this material world, accept a material body, we are all fools and rascals.

Mr. Wadell: Do you accept the whole of the material world? Do you think there are some things in it which are wrong?

Prabhupāda: Just like as soon as you come to the prison house, you are all criminals. You may be very intelligent, but because you are in the prison house, you are criminal. Because you are in the prison house, that is the proof that you are a criminal. You may be very intelligent man.

Mr. Wadell: Oh yes, I'm not claiming... I haven't any claim to goodness. You must understand that.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, any living entity, any living entity who is originally part and parcel of God, God is all-good, therefore the part and parcel of God is also all-good. But as soon as comes to the material world, he (break) As exactly like the same, that as soon as one is put into the prison wall, within, he is a criminal. Now he has to undergo the criminal laws. Similarly, because we have come to this material world, we have to undergo the material tribulations. We cannot avoid.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Dreams mean that is also change of body.

Guest (5): It has nothing to do with the human...?

Prabhupāda: No, dream... Just like you forget about this body. Just you have forgotten what body you had in your last birth, similarly, the same experience daily happening. When you dream, you forget that you have got this body. And again, when you give up your dreaming, you come to this body, you forget in what body you were dreaming. So this is the proof that you are living entity, but the body's changing daily. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But these rascals, they do not understand that there is the dehāntara. They are experiencing daily that there is dehāntara, but they do not have any education about this dehāntara.

Guest (5): (Sanskrit:) Viśvambhara para dṛśyamānaṁ nagarī tulyāṁ na janāntara-gataṁ, paśyam ātmani māyayā bahir ivodbhuḥataṁ yathā nidrayā, yaḥ sākṣād kurute prabodha sameya svātman eva advayam, tasmai śrī guru-mūrtyenam etaṁ śrī taksna mūrtaye.(?)

Prabhupāda: (chuckles.) Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent. Just like one man is working somewhere. Now, notice is given that "From such and such date, your work will not be required." Then you become anxious to know: "Then what shall I do next." I have to work.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: No. I, I suspect...

Mother: We need it. We need it.

Revatīnandana: I suspect that for the hundred, hundred or hundred and twenty of us in England, I think, for the number of us, I'll bet we're doing more work per man to spread it among the young people than your mission is.

Jesuit Priest: I wouldn't know. You're making this statement. I haven't proof.

Revatīnandana: Well, I know that in almost all of our centers they suddenly happen to be developing a temple like this. We spend every day, from ten o'clock in the morning until nine o'clock at night engaged in preaching work.

Jesuit Priest: I think most of us do, too.

Prabhupāda: Now, in each of our centers we have got minimum fifty heads, maximum two hundred, 250. In Los Angeles, you see... Just we have got recent photograph. Bring the photograph from my room. You can bring. So we are giving them place, we are giving them food, we are giving them education.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Well, that is fact. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram... (BG 8.6). Animal-eaters, they'll become tiger, fox, cats, dogs. This is, they'll become. What are these different species of life?

Yogeśvara: They do not, they do not accept that the soul exists below the human level.

Prabhupāda: And that is their foolishness. That is their foolishness. Why does not exist? What is the proof of existence of the soul in the body? What is the proof? First of all, you have to understand that. Suppose I am a human being, so...

Yogeśvara: (to driver) You know where to go?

Prabhupāda: I am a human being. You accept that I have got soul. By what symptoms you accept that I have got soul? First of all you have to ascertain that. What is the symptom that we agree that I am human being. I have got, I am a soul. By what characteristic, analytical study, you accept that I have got soul, and the dog has not got soul? What are the different characteristics? First of all, we have to enumerate that thing. If we find in the characteristics, then we can say there is no soul. But if we see that both the animal and the human being have the same characteristics of living condition, then how you can say the animal has not soul?

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Light-seeing, he becomes God?

Haṁsadūta: Well, people are so... That's the...

Devotee: Propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Then you have to make propaganda against that, that simply pushing two eyes... Anyone can push two eyes and there is natural some light. Is that the proof that he has become God? You are so foolish? And you say that God is, God has created the universe. So what he has created? What he has done, wonderful thing? That simply by pushing your eyes, you see some light, and you become God? You have become so foolish, European brain? You have no intelligence. Preach against him. What is the proof that he is God? Now, those who do not know anything about God, they can be convinced. Just like—what is called?—agnostic. The agnostic... Sometimes we say that there is a creator because everything, just we say, everything, whatever we have got in our experience, it is created. So this gigantic universe or one or many, there must be one creator. This is one hypothesis. So that creator, if I accept this man, whether he can create something, such wonderful? Has he done so? In this way, you have to make propaganda.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And He is accepted by big, big stalwarts. Just like Arjuna accepts. He heard Bhagavad-gītā. So before that, Nārada accepts. Vyāsadeva accepts. Great... Later on, big, big ācāryas accept. So these are the proof. But what proof he can give that he's God, that we shall accept him God? Simply he shows some light. We have to make some propaganda. That will be our (indistinct). And he has to be... If we remain silent, then whatever he says, that means we are accepting.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Haṁsadūta: Well we have, whenever they come, whenever we meet them.

Prabhupāda: No, whenever you are meeting, "this rascal is going on as God. This is mistaken. What profit...?" You have to speak there. What proof is there? So consult with Bhagavān dāsa and begin this propaganda. I have no time... Therefore, I say: "I do not know this man. That's all right." To avoid. But in a meeting, and you are going saṅkīrtana. People are coming, talking with you. So you make some propaganda, counter-propaganda. Although, practically, he'll be finished, there is no doubt. Two, three years. The Maharishi Mahesh yogi, also became very... Nobody cares for him now.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, universal things are also eternal. Everything, the nature. Nature is also eternal.

Guest (1): I see. Right, I'm beginning to understand that. Another thing I would like to know very much is that I feel, but have no proof, that I have experienced in my, in the things I do, which lead me to believe that my experiences based on a memory I don't understand which, which belongs to previous lifetimes. Now is that, a fa...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, previous life there was. Just like previously, you were a child. Previously, you were a boy. Previously you were a young man. So similarly, we had previous life. Previous life means not exactly in this body but another body. But I am eternal. I live either in this body or in another body. Just like I'm a person, I live in this apartment or any other apartment. The apartment may change, but the person who lives in the apartment, he does not change. Similarly, I am spirit soul. I am simply changing different apartments. But there is a life, because I am eternal, where I haven't got to change apartment. I get permanent residence.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore you take from the perfect, Kṛṣṇa. We take from Kṛṣṇa's representative. One who speaks as good as Kṛṣṇa. That is our process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We don't take, don't accept knowledge from any rascal. We accept knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. I may be rascal, but because I am receiving knowledge from the perfect, whatever we speak, that is perfect. A child may be innocent he does not know. But he has learned that this article is called spectacle. So when he says, the child says, "Father, this is spectacle." This is perfect knowledge. Similarly, if you hear from the perfect and act accordingly, then you are perfect. Now Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. After death there is another body. So we accept it. It doesn't require any proof of so-called science who's imperfect.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (2): So the question of belief comes first.

Prabhupāda: It is not belief, it is fact.

Guest (2): Yes, but if you say fact, how do you prove?

Prabhupāda: This is proof, Kṛṣṇa says.

Guest (2): It has been said by Kṛṣṇa. Yes, but...,

Prabhupāda: That is our Vedic evidence. Whenever we speak something, immediately quote from Vedas. This is our process. If it is accepted by the Vedic process, then it is perfect. Just like in the law court. You are lawyer. You are arguing. When you quote from a judgement, previous judgement, it is accepted. Similarly, when you give authoritative statement support of your talking, then it is perfect. That is the way.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: Yes, that, that life might have taken different forms, that I'm quite sure of. And that the human being might not have existed for about a hundred thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: No human beings exists eternal. He's existing. But he accepting, he's accepting different situation.

Paramahaṁsa: There's proof of this in that recently there was a discovery in South America. I think it was in Kenya. Where they discovered a skeletal remains that were over hundreds of thousands of years old that was pre, what is it? Mag... What is it?

Haṁsadūta: Cro-magnon.

Paramahaṁsa: Cro-magnon, and it was the same human body as now, as we have now. They have discovered. And with this discovery, they say, completely all of Darwin's theories have been destroyed. This is a fact. Immediately see. He overlooked. He says: "I do not see any proof that human beings lived, millions of years ago. Therefore I think apes were existing." But what proof does he have? And how they have discovered bones and they have proven by tests that Cro-magnon era there was the same human body. It's a fact. And completely his, all his theories have been destroyed. Because he again, he was working with his illusory senses.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: That is illusion. We are attached to them.

Dr. Hauser: Yes, we are attached to them also because they have power over us. They can persecute us and they can... So it's very...

Prabhupāda: No, the greater power is Kṛṣṇa. If you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, they cannot do anything. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a five years old boy. He took shelter of Kṛṣṇa and his father was a great demon, very powerful. He wanted to chastise his boy. He could not. This is the proof. So you take shelter. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pape... (BG 18.66). "I give you protection." So people have no faith although He's God. He thinks God is less powerful than Hitler. That is his nonsense. If he takes actually shelter of Kṛṣṇa, what this rascal, Hitler, can do? But he has no faith in God. He thinks Prabhu Hitler is greater than Lord. Prabhu Hitler. That is the difference between the crows and the swans. The crows think that we have got food in the garbage. And the swans think that we have got food in nice garden, in the clear water. And that is difference even in the birds kingdom. That is explained in the previous verse. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo, jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10). Read that, previous to this verse.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So what...? There is no benefit.

Karandhara: But that does not mean that the soul from the old heart, or the new heart is being changed into the new body.

Bali Mardana: The soul has already left. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the soul is individual. As I told yesterday that dead body has got the ingredients to produce life. But that the man who has left his body, you cannot produce him. That is the proof of individuality. That is the proof of individuality. Huh?

Bali Mardana: I was saying that they transplant the heart... After the first man, his soul has already gone, then they take his heart and put it into the other man, who has a weak heart. So all it means is that the soul is going from one heart to another heart, not that the soul, that they are taking the soul with it when they put the heart in.

Prabhupāda: He is destined to live in that body for a certain years. So you may change whatever you like.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. You speak something which is beyond your power.

Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda solves...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is simply cheating people. And we, Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we want to stop these cheating, any way...

Karandhara: They'd say we also cannot prove the soul is eternal.

Prabhupāda: No, there is proof. There is something. We accept it, but you don't accept it. There are so many things, there are so many things. You do not see, but still you accept it. Just like without father there cannot be son. Now you have not seen your father, but mother says, "Here is your father." You have to believe it. It is a fact.

Karandhara: But they can experience being a father themselves.

Prabhupāda: Ah? Ah?

Karandhara: They can experience that, 'cause they can be a father themselves.

Prabhupāda: They can be father themselves?

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is their process.

Hṛdayānanda: It is not God but...

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Karandhara: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Karandhara: Either they accept our evidence or...

Prabhupāda: No, therefore they are fools. That is a fact. Any child can understand that... And even they're less than a child. If I say there is something, therefore there is consciousness, any boy can understand. But they cannot understand. Less than a boy.

Karandhara: They say there's no proof that that something...

Prabhupāda: That is the proof. That is the proof.

Devotee (2): Yes, their own law of conservation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: No, I'm talking about the individuality...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Individuality... There are so many proofs, there are so many proofs, how you can say it is not?

Devotee (2): By their own laws.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not that. It is different subject. That something is missing within the body, therefore it is dead. So what is your answer? We say something is missing. We shall decide what is that something later on. That something is missing. If you suggest that something is chemical combination, then you do it. Therefore do not know. I say something is missing. If you know, then you replace that something, then you'll know.

Karandhara: What do we say that something is?

Prabhupāda: No... That everyone, any layman can understand, that this dead body is unconscious because something is missing. Any layman can understand. If you know that, then you replace it. I don't say I know, but I say something is missing.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they won't give up hopes. They are always hopeful.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Their hopes are being frustrated every moment; still, they are hoping. That is foolishness.

Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I once was distributing some of your literature to a library, and the librarian said, "If these are five thousand years old, where is the proof of this? Do we have the copies that were written down five thousand years ago?"

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. This is the proof. You see. But if you close your eyes... Just like if somebody says, "Now there is sunrise, light." And if he is in darkness, he says, "Where is the proof there is light?" So, "You please come out and see." So you read it and there will be proof.

Karandhara: Even if you don't accept it's five thousand years old, that doesn't diminish the value of the books.

Prabhupāda: Simply read it. There is no question of five thousand, ten thousand, old or new. Just see what is the knowledge there. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). Because they are fools, for them this literature is made. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. (break) ...accept Bhāgavata, then their Darwin's theory is finished. Darwin's theory is finished.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Similarly also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, some astrologers say that Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Suppose if he has said, how can you disbelieve it? How can you disbelieve it? That is... Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). "After giving up this body, one has to accept another body." So he has accepted another body but nobody can tell what body he has accepted. If the astrologer says, you have to accept it. You cannot say, "No, he has not accepted dog body." You cannot give any proof. So anyone can say anything. But it is a fact that he has accepted another body.

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That you cannot deny because it is said by Kṛṣṇa, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). That you cannot deny. He has accepted another body.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I think tradition must be still...

Prabhupāda: But tradition, what is that tradition? Tradition is here, in the proof. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The reference is given to the quality, guṇa, and karma, and action. How you can simply say that because I'm born in such and such family, therefore I have also the same thing. Because my father was high-court judge, therefore I am high-court judge. Is that very good logic? How you became superior? You have to prove your superiority by your qualification and actual work. This is very nice. The world is accepting like that. Somebody's coming to you to accept some scientific instruction. He accepts you're superior in scientific knowledge, not for your birth, but for your quality and work. That is fact. So you first of all come to the platform of the quality and work, then you claim superior.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. That is foolishness.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Girirāja: But they may say "Where did God come from?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, God, not "come from." By experience you are speaking that things are... Just like the explosion. Explosion was there because God was there. Therefore God is there. The explosion cannot take place by chance, all of a sudden. There was somebody, some brain, and that brain is God. Because you say all of a sudden there was explosion, therefore that is the proof of existence of God. Is it clear or not?

Girirāja: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but what do you gain by that?

Prajāpati: Supposedly they go to higher levels of existence, higher levels of consciousness. They change the sound and the colors change...

Prabhupāda: But you cannot give up even smoking. You are in higher level of consciousness? So what is the proof that you are on the higher level of the consciousness? You cannot give up even ordinary things.

Jayatīrtha: They say that the scriptures aren't relevant in this age, that they don't make any difference in this age. They were for previous ages.

Prabhupāda: Why?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: What would convince them that it is simply not another cheating?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is cheating, it is fact.

Bali Mardana: But what would convince them of that? What qualities?

Prabhupāda: Just see example, our. We are chanting, dancing, and eating nicely. What you are doing? You are simply talking nonsense. There is no peace in your life. And see our devotees in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the proof, practical proof.

Yaśodānandana: Practical proof that they cannot get purified.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Yaśodānandana: Even though they have big posts...

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Nitāi: Well, they don't conclude. They say, there may be possibility of higher life.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. Maybe...

Satsvarūpa: Agnostic, "There may be; we don't know."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: "There may be God, but we don't know."

Prabhupāda: That you don't know, but if somebody knows... That is not a proof, that because you cannot see. That is not proof.

Nitāi: No. They just... They make this theory based on the fact that the most advanced that they've seen so far is man.

Prabhupāda: Who is advanced? Nobody is advanced unless one has seen or known God. That is actually advancement. They're putting so many theories... I have not seen. Why shall I believe you? You are talking so many nonsense which is not in my experience. Why shall I believe you? Hm?

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Devotee: This is...

Prabhupāda: "Cow killing is religion." And he was such a fool that if somebody said that "Cutting the throat of others is my religion," he would allow, "Yes, you can do that."

Jayapatākā: Go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break)

Devotee: ...proof that the cause of cancer is beef-eating.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: I have...

Prabhupāda: Leprosy. Leprosy is also due to beef-eating. Get it folded.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: The third greatest cause of accidental death in, in the world...

Prabhupāda: Is intoxication.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: It is...

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then does it mean that those who are...?

Guest (2): I, knew... Yes... Yes...?

Prabhupāda: Those who are in uncomfortable situation, they are big bhaktas? (laughter) Can you show me that because they're in uncomfortable situation, they have become big bhakta? Is that the proof? What is this land?

Bhavānanda: This land we were looking at a few days ago? You suggested purchasing it for grazing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very nice. So it is possible?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, so do it. (break) ...bhakti's, as I explained, apratihatā. Any condition, bhakti can be executed. The example is given: Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī and Rāmānanda Rāya. Rāmānanda Rāya was gṛhastha and governor, and he was very comfortably situated. And Rūpa Gosvāmī was living underneath a tree every night. And both of them were equally... Rather, Rāmānanda Rāya was accepted in greater position than Rūpa Gosvāmī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in renounced order of life, but He gave even better position to Rāmānanda Rāya than Rūpa Gosvāmī. And Rāmānanda Rāya was a gṛhastha. He was not even a brāhmaṇa. And governor, very opulent. Very comfortable situation. You know this?

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: Nothing.

Prabhupāda: Have they done anything progressive?

Hṛdayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: So? Big, big advertising, "United Nations." All nations, you... Because all the cats and dogs united. What they can do? If the all the world's cats and dogs meet together to make a formula, will they be able? (laughter) So actually, this is the proof. They're all cats and dogs. What do they know how to unite, how to live in peace. They do not know even. Because they're animal, cats and dogs. This is the proof. Just study this institution. What they have done? Am I right or wrong?

Hṛdayānanda: Right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So study this institution.

Viṣṇujana: Thirty years now.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Guest: From Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest: Unless there is an adverse report from Delhi.

Yaśomatīnandana: Delhi.

Guest: You see if there is any report from the Delhi, from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, against this movement, because being Americans...

Prabhupāda: No, they are against this movement, that I have got many proofs.

Guest: But if they will logically...

Prabhupāda: Logic, there is no logic.

Guest: No, but what I say. If they are appeased...

Prabhupāda: Argumentum baculam. Their logic is sword.

Guest: No, but what I say... The basic problem is that if the center is against, if the (indistinct) man, is against...

Prabhupāda: That I know that they are against.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not arthārthī. Jñānī. No, I must give the proper position. Jñānī...

Dr. Patel: You have, you have admitted at the end, before these boys.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: You have rehabilitated me. (laughter) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...pious, how you would come daily to see the maṅgala-ārati? This is the proof.

Dr. Patel: That is, we are, we are brought up like that from our...

Prabhupāda: That is, that means you are pious.

Guest (3): You are pious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Śucīnāṁ sukṛtāṁ gṛhe.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Matter, yes.

Dr. Patel: The para...

Mr. Sar: The para is the soul.

Prabhupāda: Para is the soul.

Mr. Sar: Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho. That is also prakṛti word.

Dr. Patel: Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5).

Prabhupāda: And... No, no. What is the...? What is the proof of the soul? Now, yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. One who is working with this inferior energy. Just like I am working with this body.

Dr. Patel: It animates the inferior energy.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: It animates the inferior prakṛti.

Prabhupāda: Yes, working, working. One is the worker, and another is the working ingredient, prakṛti.

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, actually, He had sixteen thousand wives when He was in Dvaraka, but these rascals say, "Rural boy." "Rural boy" means when He was in Vṛndāvana. So he does not know even the history, and he is trying to write about Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. And that is the proof. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God, because you cannot maintain even one wife at the present moment. So He maintained sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God. That is the proof. But they will not take that side. They will take in other way, "Oh, this is all stories and fictitious." That's all. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). They do not know. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and they try to write upon Kṛṣṇa, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa was an avatāra. Therefore I am also avatāra." These things are not very good.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...purāṇas, not new manufactured. (break) If I have to offer my obeisances and surrender, why not to Kṛṣṇa? Why an imitation Kṛṣṇa? Why? Just like if you go to purchase some medicine, the shopkeeper may say, "Now, here is a medicine equal to this medicine, and its price is less." So no sane man will purchase. "Why I shall purchase the imitation for being less price? Give me the original." (break) ...the life of Ramakrishna. It is said that at the time of his death he said to his disciples, especially to Vivekananda, that "I am the same Rāma, I am the same Kṛṣṇa," and he took it. And he preached that "This Gadadhara Chatterjee, Ramakrishna." That's all. Then if he is referring to the original Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, so why not take the original Rāma and Kṛṣṇa? What is the proof? Simply by his words one can accept? Just like he is taking the proof, Arjuna. Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not realized. No, no, no. No, no, no. I have realized... (break) ...should stop discussing Bhagavad-gītā because Bhagavad-gītā begins, evaṁ paramparā.

Indian man (2): (shouting unintelligibly)

Prabhupāda: No, no. (break) ...as the ācārya. And we have to accept.

Dr. Patel: What I mean to say that realized people don't criticize because final proof nobody knows. (break)

Prabhupāda: Sarvārhanam acyutejyā. Simply by worshiping Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), you can worship everyone. There is no need of separately worshiping the five devatās. There is no need.

Girirāja: (reads synonyms for Bg. 11.13) "Translation: At that time Arjuna could see in the universal form of the Lord the unlimited expansions of the universe situated in one place although divided into many, many thousands."

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anthropomorphism it is called. They create a form, but that is not the fact. God has His eternal form. That I explained. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means form. And it is sac-cid-ānanda, means eternal, full of knowledge and... Just like Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. People are accepting, because that is real knowledge. And nobody reads other books so carefully. And this Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world. All big, big scholars, big, big philosophers, theologists, they read. Because that is real knowledge. That is the proof. It is real knowledge. Cit. Sac-cid. And one who is giving real knowledge, it is natural conclusion, he has got eternal body. We cannot give real knowledge because we forget. As we change our body, we forget. Just like at night we dream, but we forget the body, this body. In another body we go to some dreamland. So because we change body therefore we forget. And because Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge perfect, past, present and future, therefore it means that He has got eternal body. This is the proof. One should understand everything with logic. Is it not? We forget because we have no eternal body. Last birth, what I was, what you were, we have forgotten, because changed body. Death means forgetting. So because Kṛṣṇa is giving perfect knowledge of past, future and present, therefore it is to be understood that He has got eternal body. And eternal body means there is no misery. Misery means janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), to take birth, to die... (aside:) (Hare Kṛṣṇa.) And to suffer from disease, to suffer from old age. These are the miseries. So because Kṛṣṇa hasn't got this temporary body, therefore He is not suffering from these things. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, you will see always, young man. You will never see Kṛṣṇa's picture as old man, because He is eternal body. This is the conclusion.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I am following Jesus Christ?

Akṣayānanda: That "I am a vegetarian. I do not eat meat. I don't kill. I do not kill."

Prabhupāda: Oh, therefore I am a better Christian, better than you. Love... Therefore the Bhāgavata is perfect. Bhāgavata says that... Bhagavad-gītā says... Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So we are obeying Kṛṣṇa. We offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. And we eat the remains of the foodstuff. Therefore we love. That is the proof. But you are not loving Jesus Christ because you are disobeying the order.

Pañcadraviḍa: How disobeying if the person says, "I am vegetarian. I do not kill. I am a Christian, but I am vegetarian, I do not kill animals?"

Prabhupāda: Then you are all right. But they... Who put forward the argument that "You are also killing vegetable?" Then how can kill vegetable?

Nitai: In Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa... Just as you quoted.

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: There are so many scriptures all over the world, but just in the second chapter of Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa gives more knowledge than all of the other scriptures.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It is the greatest miracle. These trees, not fruit trees?

Dhanañjaya: No. (break)

Yogeśvara: ...is that "Okay, you present Bhagavad-gītā as being the evidence for Kṛṣṇa, but so many people interpret Bhagavad-gītā. So where is the proof that it is miraculous if so many people debate it?"

Prabhupāda: What they will debate? If they debate like rascal, that is another thing. If they debate like sane man, then there cannot be any difference of opinion. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). So what is your debate on this point, that living entities, they flourish by food grains? So what is your debate on this point?

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: Well, they may agree that the teachings are good, but they can't accept it as proof that Kṛṣṇa was God.

Prabhupāda: Well, then you have to give me definition of God. What is God? If you know God, then you can say that "Kṛṣṇa is not God." Otherwise, how you can say He is not God? I give you a piece of gold: If you say, "It is not gold," then you show me what is gold. Otherwise, you are talking nonsense. If you do not know the things as it is, how you can say, "It is not this"? If you know the positive, then you can say the negative.

Yogeśvara: Well, there are many people who say that they have actually experienced God.

Prabhupāda: What is that God? Tell me.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, in the Kṛṣṇa Book, Kṛṣṇa Himself argues that you don't need... He argues at the time of the Indra sacrifice that you don't need yajña. The rain will come anyway. That's what they say nowadays.

Prabhupāda: That was to irritate Indra. (laughter)

Satsvarūpa: But they take that argument of His. Where is the proof that the rains are controlled by God?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Kṛṣṇa says the rain will come, but Kṛṣṇa never says that without rain you can cultivate. So Kṛṣṇa's purpose was because I am the Supreme Lord, Indra will supply, his father will supply." So that is another thing. Kṛṣṇa never said that "Without rain, you can cultivate." Never said.

Yogeśvara: Well, what if they argue that "Whether we perform yajña or not, these rains will go on. They are coming now and we are not performing yajña."

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good program, to produce your own necessities of life. That is good idea. But he could not turn the people, because they are godless. Godless man cannot have any good qualification. I requested him to become God conscious and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He thought it ludicrous. Yes. He was such a godless man.

Yogeśvara: All Indians worship Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: Then how he was killed? That is the proof. Otherwise, how was he killed?

Yogeśvara: Every place we go, we see Indian's homes, pictures of Gandhi on their tables.

Prabhupāda: You, you have not visited everyone's house here. The three, four house you have visited. That's all.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the searching after truth? It is hypocrisy. (French)

Yogeśvara: Maybe they already know the truth.

Prabhupāda: Then what is that truth? Let us know.

Dr. Sallaz: I am sure that some of them knows perfectly well all the Bhagavad-gītā. (French)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: He says that you don't really need proof to convince anyone. Why should he have to show proof that you know...

Prabhupāda: No, if you are searching after truth... Suppose if you are searching after gold. And if I give you gold, why don't you accept it? (French)

Yogeśvara: Apparently his position is that by their research, they have discovered the truth.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He's wondering whether there's some kind of information that he can supply providing the scientific point of view.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Yogeśvara: Whether there's some information that he can provide.

Prabhupāda: This is the information, that matter comes from spirit. The so-called scientists, they are thinking that life is coming from matter. And that is nonsense. Matter is coming from life. This is sense. Where is the proof that life is coming from matter? Is there any proof? We don't find any proof.

Robert Gouiran: But life...

Prabhupāda: You have got laboratory.

Robert Gouiran: ...can come from matter. It can come from matter.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, I'll give you example that mass of people in Jagannātha Purī, in Vṛndāvana, many thousands, ten thousands, twenty thousands people, every day come, to worship Jagannātha, to worship Kṛṣṇa, but there is a Ramakrishna temple in Belurmath, or somewhere else—nobody goes. So how do you say the mass of people are attracted to Ramakrishna? And similarly, recently, our foreign students went to Vṛndāvana, went to Navadvīpa, by thousands, but nobody goes to Ramakrishna Mission temple. Then other point: Ramakrishna Mission is working in the western world almost one hundred years. Find out their disciples so many we have got. So your statement, "It is meant for the mass of people," it is false. I have given you proof from India and from here also. That means throughout the whole world. In India nobody cares for Ramakrishna. That I have given you proof. You go to Vṛndāvana. There nobody cares for Ramakrishna. You go to Jagannātha Purī, Haridvar, so many holy places. Nobody cares for Ramakrishna. So your idea, that it is for the mass, it is false. (French)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He says he was talking about the time of Ramakrishna, when Ramakrishna was there...

Prabhupāda: That, everything, bubble comes and goes away. It is no meaning. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says numbers aren't really very important.

Jyotirmayī: It's not a proof.

Yogeśvara: It's not a proof, just numbers.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: He says: But that's not a proof, just to say that there are greater number.

Karandhara: He was trying to submit it as a proof just a minute ago.

Prabhupāda: Now, sometimes he is going this side, sometimes goes that side. Sometimes he says, "Mass of people," and again he says, "Not the number of people." What is mass of people? That is the number of people. (French)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: We are in the Paris City. How we have escaped from the world? (laughter) We have got branches in London, in Paris in New York and big, big cities, and all these boys are coming from big, big cities. How they have escaped? It is not justice. If he says that "They have escaped," that is wrong statement. We are not escaping anything. (French)

Bhagavān: What kind of proof are you looking for? Let's talk about proof. What kind of proof are you looking for? (French)

Prabhupāda: Now, another point is he's accusing us that we're escaping. Why he's escaping Kṛṣṇa consciousness? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he thinks that what we're doing is simply a kind of medicine that doesn't actually resolve the problems that people are facing.

Prabhupāda: If it is not result, then how this boy says, "We have no problem"? The patient says that he is cured, and you say that it is not curing? (French)

Bhagavān: (to translators) So repeat to Prabhupāda what he said. (French) We have proof that anyone from any part of the world who takes to this process loses his problems. It's not a matter of western or eastern. (French)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: And here we're having a fight with the body, but he doesn't accept that Kṛṣṇa is...

Prabhupāda: Their only business is to escape Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: They're trying to interpret that Kṛṣṇa is just our own intelligence or...

Bhagavān: The point is even when they see the practical proof, they don't accept it. They're so stubborn.

Prabhupāda: You be strong. Don't be... They cannot conquer us. But you be more strong.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: What they were? No religion?

Haṁsadūta: They were like you said. They were just tribes people.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So these Germans were tribe people, uncivilized?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, before Christianity, Europe was completely uncivilized.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Therefore the order is "Thou shalt not kill." Simply their business was killing. Uncivilized persons, they kill animals and eat. So due to past habit they could not forget this killing business. This is the proof that this system of religion was preached among the crude people, not civilized. So why they introduced this beer?

Haṁsadūta: It was a kind of refreshment.

Prabhupāda: But before that, they were not drinking.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Communist?

Satsvarūpa: The devotees seem to be calm, serene. Where does that come from?

Prabhupāda: From Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes.

Reverend Powell: From what?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when one...

Reverend Powell: Ah, the consciousness, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā. These are the proofs. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he becomes qualified with all godly attributes. That I have explained, that if you be in touch with God, then you become godly. That is the test. Simply by saying that "I am in commune with God." No. There is test. The test means if he is always in touch with God, he'll become, in his characteristics, godly. So they... One of the qualifications is serenity. Is one of the qualifications. There are twenty-five qualifications of a devotee.

Reverend Powell: Twenty-five?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Prabhupāda, one question: You say that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will solve all problems. But factually, there are so many problems in the world that aren't being solved.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: So many problems in the world, and many say that they can solve all the problems. So what is the proof?

Prabhupāda: They could not. The problems are there.

Brahmānanda: Sometimes we are criticized. They say, "Oh, you say you can solve all problems. That is utopian, that is..."

Prabhupāda: Not utopian. You do not know. Because just like when you are diseased, there is problem. So to solve that problem, where do you go? Hm?

Brahmānanda: To the doctor.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone.

yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde
nava-nava-rasa-dhāmany (udyataṁ) rantum āsīt
tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne
bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca

Yamunacarya, he was a great king. So his.... As king, his life was sex. But when he became a devotee, he admits, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde: "Since I have learned how to enjoy association with the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa and I get more and more eternal transcendental bliss, since that time," bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne, "even if I think of sex life with woman," bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ, mukha-vikāraḥ, "I taste that (indistinct)," suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ, (makes spitting sound). This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When the mind will be fixed up, (spitting sound), these things, then you enter Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct). Otherwise, it is mixed up. You have to purify. When this attitude, we (spitting noise)—"What is this?"—then Kṛṣṇa consciousness is beginning. This is the proof, Yamunacarya. Tadavadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne. So not actually doing, simply by thinking, "Oh, I was doing this. (spitting noise). What I was?" this is liberation. Even if I think mentally, that means I will have to take birth again. Again and again. This is the criteria. They think mentally. They read so many novels, fiction. The same thing—the sex life. And these ordinary men, they read Bhāgavata, hear Bhāgavata, rasa-līlā. They think, "Here is the same thing. Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs do like this, the same thing. So why not hear this?" But actually, śāstra says if one hears rasa-līlā, then that lusty desires will be finished.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: I am not only conscious, but the consciousness depends on me. Because I am there, therefore consciousness... So I am nitya. This is the proof of nitya, that many changes have taken place, but the changes, the phenomenal changes, they have gone out. They are no more existing. Therefore they are not nitya. Just like dream. At night I saw one dream, but the dream is no more existing, but I remember that last night I saw the dream. Therefore I am nitya. And the dream is anitya. The dream is anitya. Similarly, this phenomenal world, when I am not sleeping, but I am so-called awakened, so I am seeing. I am seeing you, I am seeing the table, this book, you see, but... (aside:) Don't... But when I am asleep I forget all these things. I forget. I am in a different world. I am seeing different things. So this is also dream, and the dream at night, that is also dream. But I, the seer of this dream and that dream, I am the eternal.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Existence of thing... I say that at night, when I am dreaming, I do not see existence of these things. And at this time, in daytime, when I am seeing these things, I do not see the existence of the dream. So the conclusion should be both these things I see in daytime and I see at night, they have no existence. They are phenomenal. But I am the seer; I am eternal. I am existing. This is the proof. Because at night I am seeing and daytime I am seeing, so therefore I am eternal. But the phenomenal manifestation, they are temporary. We don't say it is false. Temporary. The Māyāvādī philo... Śaṅkara said it is false. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Mithyā means false. We don't say false. We don't say that this book is false. It has got reality, but temporary. This book has come into form at a certain date, and it will exist for certain days, and when it will be worn out or old, there will be no existence. Therefore the formation of this book is temporary.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Yes, revealed.

Guest (1): ...or is...? Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Revealed. It is revealed. Hm? Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā the vibration is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Now, you practically realize it: "Yes, what is said is correct." That is direct perception. First of all, you receive the message, and then apply your logic and see that it is fact. Therefore it is perfect. When you receive the knowledge and when you directly apply it to your perception, when you see it is correct, that is the proof that the message which you received, that is correct.

Professor: Very difficult to have proofs of that, where the eternality of your own ātman for instance, things of that...

Prabhupāda: That is called realization. Yes. First of all you receive the sound, then apply your instruments, and when you find it, it is correct—that is the realization. So our process is to receive knowledge from the perfect. That's all. We are not perfect. But the knowledge we are getting, that is perfect. So according to that perfect direction, if we mold our life, then we are successful. Otherwise you go on experimenting, speculating.

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: So the soul transmigrates to another body. That is the evolutionary process for anthropology, basic principle of anthropology. So in Darwin's theory there is no admission of the soul. Therefore it is imperfect. The soul transmigrates from one type of body to another type. And then there are 8,400,000 forms of body. So when we get this human form of body we get all intelligence. And we should utilize this intelligence how to stop this transmigration of the soul from one body to another. So what is your opinion?

Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)

Hṛdayānanda: (translating) If there's a certain criteria of proof or a certain evidence that we can know for certain that there actually is such transmigration of the soul?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the baby is, the soul is, transmigrated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthful body, so the body vanishes, and because the soul remains, he gets another body. Now I am old man. I remember I had a child's body, I was lying down. I quite remember it. But that body is not existing. So this is the example. Everyone has experience. This is transmigration of the soul from one body to another. And at the time of death, the psychological condition of the mind will carry me to a suitable body, and I shall enter into the womb of my mother through the semina of the father, and the mother will give that a particular type of body, and when it is completely manufactured, then I come out and begin my again.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor: I have other question. Why do we want to transcend?

Prabhupāda: I am not wanting. I am simply distributing the transcendental knowledge.

Professor: Will not transcendence be an illusion too?

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is proof. It is not emotion. What you say, you have no proof, but what I say I have got proof. What you say, you become your own authority. But what I say, I have got greater authority. Just like two lawyers speaking before the court—the lawyer who gives quotation from the authority, he gains the case.

Professor: Do you have any evidence?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Professor: Would you tell us your experiences in that field?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: If sexual intercourse is the beginning of life, then why it is not always successful? We say that when the life, living entity, is there in the semina and it is put into the woman's womb, then body develops. Therefore, the beginning is the life. This is practical. And this life is the part and parcel of the supreme life. Therefore the beginning is God. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So we have to establish this theory in this misguided world that... And besides that, why they cannot produce life from matter? What is the value of their statement? That they have not been able to do. Where is the proof that from matter life comes? You do it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Proof is under investigation. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Eh? That is nonsense. That is nonsense. This proof, that from life, life is coming, there is proof, so many proof. A man, animal, trees—everything is coming from life. Up till now, nobody has seen that a man is born from a stone. Nobody has seen. Sometimes it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. You know that? Vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Vṛścika means scorpion, and taṇdūla means rice. Sometimes we see some heaps of rice, the scorpion is coming. But that is not that the rice has given birth to the scorpion. You have not seen in your country? We have seen it. From the rice, heaps of rice, one scorpion, small scorpion, is coming. The fact is that the parent of the scorpion, they put their eggs within the rice and, being fermented, the scorpion comes out, not that from rice the scorpion is coming out.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The man is important, who has done it. The person is important. So am I right or wrong? So find out the person, who is that person.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Suppose they say that it just came about by chance.

Prabhupāda: That is kick on your face with boots. Immediately: boom! (laughter) That's all. That is the answer, only answer. Rascaldom answer, "chance." The only answer is to kick his face with the boot, that's all, as soon as he says chance.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So Richard Prabhu is going to write a topic, a chapter, that mathematical proof of the idea that chance comes into play, that...

Prabhupāda: Your mathematics is also imperfect because you are imperfect. You are imperfect. There is nothing chance. There must be cause. You do not know the cause. You cannot find out. You are taking a loophole, chance. Then why you are making so many scientific research? Chance, let it happen, everything, by chance. Then what is the use of your scientific research? Let everything happen by chance. There is no chance.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another answer that we come across when we talk with these people...

Prabhupāda: There is nowadays the chance theory.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That is... This foolishness is going on throughout the whole world, and scientist and people are after the so-called scientist, Darwin. So we want to stop this misleading. That is our duty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, the way they study the origin of life is nothing but the origin of molecules. It's not actually of life, the way they are studying. So there is a misunderstanding what is life and what is matter.

Prabhupāda: No, no, whatever they are studying, this rascal cannot make life even with combination of those original molecules. Where is that proof? Our challenge is that because they cannot do it, therefore they are rascals. And that vṛścika taṇdūla nyāya, that a scorpion is coming out of rice, that's it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Their claim depends on the...

Prabhupāda: There are life manifestation, according to Vedic literature, that some of the life, they are coming from eggs, some of the life, they are coming from perspiration, some of the lives come from a seed, and some of the life comes from embryo. This is all stated there. Sveda-ja, udbi-ja, aṇḍa-ja, jarayu-ja. They already there. Jarayu means embryo, and sveda means perspiration. Life is everywhere.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: So why do they not do that?

Vīra-lakṣmaṇa: They've made an experiment...

Prabhupāda: That means they are not in knowledge. That I am speaking, the barking dog. First of all make experiment, produce life. Then come and say. Otherwise don't bark like a dog, imitation. Simply big, big words. Produce. Our theory is that... In the śāstra it is said harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nās... (CC Adi 17.21). That practical proof we are giving, that these Europeans, Americans, they are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and how they are coming out, this practical proof. They did not know five or six years ago what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa's name. But we are taking the conclusion of the śāstra: in this age, if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes spiritualized. That is becoming, practically. It is not theory. How so many devotees are in this Atlanta, here? Anywhere, wherever we have started, how they have become devotee? Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You follow this formula and you will become God conscious." That is being practically proved. It is not theory. So that is Vedic knowledge. You adopt Vedic knowledge and get the result, not that "This ammonia, this chemical, that chemical, but I cannot do anything." The rascal said, "That I cannot say."

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Rūpānuga: There was another devotee, Jñāna dāsa, in Germany, who is a graduate from Oxford University, their school. And we have invited him to come to this meeting but he did not respond. Maybe he will come and help in the future.

Prabhupāda: Mm, yes.

Rūpānuga: He has, what is his field?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. His topic was classical, statistical (indistinct) proof. That was allotted to Jñāna dāsa Prabhu, to Germany. (indistinct) Mahārāja sent a telegram, and I also personally wrote a letter saying that he should participate in writing (indistinct). He has a (indistinct) background, he told me (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is nice, attend. Kṛṣṇa will help you. They are wiping out Kṛṣṇa, and your business will be to establish Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Indian man: No, but then our attention is towards that thing.

Prabhupāda: No, there no attention. You have failed. That is the proof that you had no attention.

Indian man: Yes, but then God should help us to keep us...

Prabhupāda: God is always helping, but if you do not accept it... God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all other engagement and take My shelter," but you are not doing that. That is your fault. So it cannot be failure unless you are negligent. You have no utsāhaḥ. This is the process. Utsāhaḥ dhairyaḥ niścayaḥ tat-tat-karma-pravartanaḥ, sato vṛtteḥ. How these boys are advancing? They have got enthusiasm: "Yes, we must make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Then I do not know what is your real purpose. You say, "There may not be. There may be." Again you say...

Indian man: No, Guruji, you yourself have quoted the ācāryas.

Prabhupāda: So one who is following the ācāryas...

Indian man: Were they not Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they say. Therefore I am giving their proof.

Indian man: So that means those maṭhas also are Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Indian man: We can join them also.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Here we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and we are becoming purified. That is the name.

Pañcadraviḍa: Dhruva chanted Oṁ...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇeti na..., varṇa-dvayam. Kṛṣṇeti. Kṛṣ-ṇa, varṇa, alphabets two. Jīva Gosvāmī said, kṛṣṇeti varṇa-dvayam. This is the name. Rāma. Rāmeti varṇa-dvayam. You chant Rāma, Rāma, you chant Kṛṣṇa, and it is... It will act. And there is proof. So find out any other name. If he acts... If it acts like that, then it is God's name. Phalena paricīyate: "By the action, we have to understand the substance." Just like quinine is understood to subsidize, subside fever. Then if you take something as quinine and if your fever is gone, then it is quinine. Similarly, God-name, it acting as God, purifying... So Kṛṣṇa is purifying. Therefore it's God's name. Yes?

Devotee (3): It's almost time for lunch, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh.

Devotee (3): Shall we go?

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did God create death?

Prabhupāda: No, therefore you are under the control of God. You understand it. So you cannot become free. Therefore death is there, ultimately. You are thinking you are free of the kingdom of God, or laws of God. "No, you are not free. You'll die and you'll accept another body and according to My decision." That is God. This is a question like "Why government created punishment? Why not enjoy ourself without any punishment?" It is a question like that. And that cannot be. It is not possible. That is the proof that there is God.

Trivikrama: Death.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Trivikrama: Death is the proof that there is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: And the other part is that then there is another body.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Death and then another body.

Prabhupāda: Another body, immediately. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is the tangible proof that there is God. You have to die and accept another body. Just like the proof of government is that you are acting irresponsibly, you must be arrested or be punished. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say it is just a proof of nature, not a proof of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, nature is instrumental, just like jail is instrument. But the proprietor of the jail, conductor of the jail, is government. Jail is not acting independently. By the government's direction. Similarly, the nature is working by the direction of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is stated. Nature is not independent. Just like the nature is that this lump of matter will lie down here, but if God desires, it can fly on the sky. That is God's will. Nature is not independent. Then it would have remained here. Just like Lord Rāmacandra collected stones, and it was floating. According to law of gravitation, how it can float?

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Yaśodānandana: They don't have faith in the doctor.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Yaśodānandana: They don't have faith in the doctor.

Prabhupāda: Then how he claims to..., claims others' faith upon him? He's more than a doctor? Doctor is also as good as scientist as you are. If you do not have faith in the doctor why do you claim people should have faith in you? Where is the proof that you'll be able? Why you are asking us blindly to follow you? What is your answer?

Nitāi: Sometimes they say that if we can control, if we can produce...

Prabhupāda: But I'm protesting that you cannot control. You are rascal. You are thinking like that. That is our charge against you, that you cannot control. In the history there is not a single instance that man has controlled nature. But nature has controlled man. That is the history. Where is the proof that you shall control? You are controlled. Nature is forcing you to become an old man. You are becoming. You control like that, that you remain a young man. Nature is controlling you to die. You control nature that death will not be forced upon me. So where is the history that man has controlled nature?

Nitāi: They say that now we are controlling atomic energy and now we are controlling...

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is called hope against hope. That is foolishness. Therefore we say because you are expecting like that, therefore we understand that you are a fool. We can immediately understand, "Here is a grand fool." That is our study. Many fools have done like that, and you are one of them, you are also scientific (indistinct). Therefore our conclusion is "You are Fool No. 1."

Devotee: We may not be able to actually stop death, but while we're here we can at least prolong our lifetime and...

Prabhupāda: That also you cannot do. Where is the proof?

Devotee: Well, at the atomic research plants...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is another foolishness, I say. You have not done it. You are simply expecting. Hope against hope. That's all.

Devotee: But they are making different cures for critical diseases that are causing deaths...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But that does not mean there will be no disease. That is already being done by many medical practitioners. Better medicine. But where is the medicine that will not be disease.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Going back... Where is science? Going back to hell again. Say "going back to hell again". Say like that. (chuckles) Because that is not science. That is our charge. You can say like that: "Going back again to hell."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We wanted to talk to you about the moon. We have read your statement that you say that man has not gone to the moon, but we have seen...

Prabhupāda: Not only now, I've said long, long years ago. That this is all childish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But how can you say this when we have so much proof that we have gone to the moon?

Prabhupāda: But that proof is with you. I have not gone with you. I don't believe you because, according to you, unless you see, you don't believe. I have not seen so I don't believe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have not seen the North Pole but you believe it.

Prabhupāda: Ah ha. You materialistic people say that "We have not seen God, therefore don't believe." Therefore I say, "I have not gone with you, that you have gone to moon, I don't believe." That's all. Finished. How can I believe? You say that you have gone. But I have not gone with you. So how can I believe. That's all. That is my argument. You did not take me with you. How can I believe?

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There was a big animal. So what is the difference? They are animals, big or small. You have seen a skeleton of pygmy man also. So where is that man now? You have seen pygmy man, you don't require archeological. So where is that man?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they don't live any more. Now we are more intelligent. Previously there were pygmy men, very less intelligent, small, not nice looking. Now we have got more...

Prabhupāda: According to our śāstra you are going to be pygmy men. That is, there is proof, because you are not as strong as your forefathers. That's a fact. You are becoming dwarfer, dwarfer. According to our śāstra you come to that pygmy, (indistinct) in due course of time. As it was before, so again the time is repeating, history repeating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then that means our pygmy men were from a previous Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We say there was Kali-yuga. Four yugas are changing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dinosaurs also?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Devotee: He's saying that he has to create the market.

Prabhupāda: Good things, does it require...? That is propaganda. You have got some false thing, you have to make propaganda to prove it, that it is real.

Devotee: That is the proof it is false.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And this man has taken money for... And he cannot supply even maintenance for his wife and girl. You have seen Mālatī?

Devotee: Yes Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Not properly dressed. And this poor girl is not properly dressed. And he's thinking he'll (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His head is in the clouds.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: A lot of them will accept, "Yes, there is future after death," but...

Prabhupāda: That he does not know, what is that future.

Amogha: "Oh, yeah, we haven't discovered that right yet."

Paramahaṁsa: Many of them say we cannot prove there is any life after death.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this if proof. Just as the boy is there and the father is there, the boy is going to become father. This is future. Both of them are there. The boy is going to be the father, and the father is going to be the grandfather. Where there is no future? The rascals, they do not know, say that, but there is future. How can you stop it? The boy is going to be father, the father is going to be grandfather. This is future.

Amogha: But then he dies, and they cannot see any future after that.

Prabhupāda: Your seeing has no power. This is no argument, "I cannot see." I cannot see the other side. That does not mean there is nothing. This is all rascaldom. He has become authority "I want to see." What you can see? Now this is Indian Ocean. On the other side there is India, and other islands, but you cannot see it. Does it mean there is nothing? So, these are foolish questions. Because they are rascals they put such questions and nonsense. That is the proof that they are rascals. They are simply taking authority his little vision. That's all. What is your vision? Why don't you see what is the other side? But does it mean there is nothing because you cannot see? WHen one says "I cannot see," that means he is a rascal number one. He's believing so much upon his seeing. He does not know that he is a most insignificant person, so there is no value of his seeing. That he does not know. Therefore he is a rascal. Is it not? He's believing his eyes so greatly that "I cannot see." And what is the value of your seeing? What you can see?

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: But what do they know about the soul, about God? First thing is that there is a supreme authority. You are not independent. So if you do not know who is that supreme authority, what is the value of your knowledge? You have to accept there is a supreme authority, because you are not independent. But you do not know. Just like a rascal, he does not know about the government. What kind of man he is? He's a rascal. A civilized man means he knows what is government, what is the history of government. That is civilized. And if he doesn't know what is government, he is simply living there, he's a third class man. So you have to accept there is a government of the whole universal affair, but you do not know it. Then you are third-class man. You are not human being; you are animal. Animal does not know. This is the proof that you are animal, you are not human being. A human being, at least a class of man there must be—brāhmaṇa. Brāhma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ, one who knows how things are going on. We know that. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we know. Therefore we are civilized.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: That man last night admitted. He said, "Now I must leave and do my fourth-class activities."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fourth class. This is the proof. Fourth-class men administering... Just like misadministration not immediately detected. After some time, when the case is unmanageable, it is detected. Therefore fourth-class men. Simply these Western people, they know how to earn money by hook and crook. So, so long the money is there it is covered, the fourth-class men. And when the money is finished, they are exposed, fourth-class men. They're simply covered by money. No social structure, no spiritual understanding, no character, nothing of the sort. Still India, so fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Your preaching is all right, so, provided you preach something good. But when everything is good, then where is the, your preaching required? You preach something. Just like we are preaching. We are preaching. This is actually good for, that he must know what he is and what is the ultimate goal of life. This is required. Material preaching has no value. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Ei bhāla ei manda, saba manodharma: " 'This is good; this is bad,' this is all mental concoction." Actually. But real good is: "He has forgotten God. Revive his consciousness." That is real good. Then he'll saved from the so-called good and bad and everything. That is wanted. Materially, everything is one man's food, another man's poison. Therefore there is no distinction—"This is good; this is bad." The stool is very bad, bad smell for you, but it is food for the pig. This is proof—"One man's food, another's poison." So this is only mental concoction, "This is good; this is bad."

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: For fishing.

Amogha: Not any more. Now the post office is closed on Saturday and open all day on Sunday in Perth.

Prabhupāda: They have changed?

Amogha: Yes. They are open on the Sabbath.

Prabhupāda: My point is: if the moon is the first planet nearer, why they did not start Monday? If the sun is after, then Sunday. This is the proof that first sun, then moon, not that first moon and then sun. Hm? That is the description in the Bhāgavatam. One after another, one after another. Sixteen thousand, sixteen hundred thousand miles apart. First of all sun, then moon, then, what is called? Mars. You have seen it.

Amogha: Mars is above the moon?

Śrutakīrti: But the scientists wouldn't even agree that the sun is the first created thing.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: This "Sunday, Monday," means first sun, then moon. Where they are going? They are going to hell, not in the moon. This Vedic description is right. Because first study, Sunday... That, we offer gāyatrī to the sun. So the moon is after the sun—this is the proof, first Sunday, then Monday. So if their calculation is 93,000,000 miles from here, and moon is (sic:) one million, six thousand still farther, then where they are going? If they simply follow strictly this moon expedition and they admit they have not gone, then the whole civilization will change. All wrong conclusion. But they will have to admit now. Now they are serious, and they will have to say that they've never gone to the moon. And they will have to continue this. Otherwise they will be farce before the world. They will have to continue it. Now they are in such a position.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to believe only. You have to accept what Bhāgavata says. That is your business. Not to try to make an experiment. That is not possible. It is already experimented, and the mature knowledge is stated there. You have to accept, that's all. Śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti means Vedas. Evidence... Vedic literature there are three kinds of evidences. The most powerful evidence is śruti. If it is stated in the Vedas, that is first-class evidence. Therefore whatever we say, immediately quote some Vedic version, that is the way of understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, Vyāsadeva says, Parāśara says, that's all. We don't require much proof. This is the first-class proof, when you find the statement corroborated by the Vedas. And śruti, smṛti. Smṛti means literature written according to the Vedic version. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi (Brs. 1.2.101). Purāṇādi is itihāsa, history. And another pramāṇa is anumāna. And anumāna means "by right person." Thinking that it may be like this, anumāna. That is called anumāna.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is brāhmaṇa. We do not serve anyone, any merchant, officer, any... No. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If Kṛṣṇa wants, He will give us food, or we shall starve. We are not going to serve. This is the proof. We are spending not less than twenty lakhs of rupees for maintaining our establishment throughout the whole world, but we do not know what is our next moment's income. We do not know... We have eaten today. We do not know whether we shall have any eatable next day. This is our position. If it is available, we shall eat; otherwise we shall starve. This is our position. Still, I don't seek any employment, "Give us some service to maintain our..." No, we don't do that. We never do that. When I was alone, I was not doing that. I was living alone. I had no income, no friend, no shelter. Since I left my home, since 1954, I never cared for anyone maintaining me. And there was no resource, fixed income, nothing of the sort. I depended on Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, in the whole society we are feeding daily ten thousand men.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not authorized. Therefore we say specifically, "Bhagavad-gītā As It is," no interpretation. Here Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we preach that thing. We preach that "You be Kṛṣṇa conscious." Man-manāḥ: "Always think of Me," Kṛṣṇa says. And we are teaching these disciples, "Always think of Kṛṣṇa." There is no difference. We don't create. And therefore it is successful. Others, they created their own concoction; it was never successful. Before me, so many swamis came to the Western countries. They were not successful. Not a single person was Kṛṣṇa conscious, in the history. In the history of the last two hundred years so many swamis are coming in the Western countries. They also speak on Bhagavad-gītā, but not a single person was Kṛṣṇa conscious. And since we have presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, hundreds and thousands. This is the proof, that they presented something concoction. It was, what is called, impotent.

A impotent man having sex, he cannot beget children. He can enjoy that sex, but he cannot beget child. Similarly, these so-called swamis, they are impotent. They could not produce any child of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the proof. (To Amogha:(?)) So you reply him. Don't be innocent like that.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is making the theory that life has come from chemicals by chemical combination, chemical evolution. Darwin's theory is also of that. This is their... Big, big scientists, they are so fool that life has come from matter. Where is the proof? He was lecturing in California University, and there was one student. He is my disciple. He challenged him that "If you get the chemicals, whether you can manufacture life?" That answer was, "That I cannot say." Why? You are putting this theory, that life has come from chemicals. So science means observation and experiment. Now experimentally prove that the chemicals have produced a life.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Australian devotee 2: They feel justified in killing because they say the animal has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see how fool they are. Therefore we simply say these are rascals. They have not even the common sense of an uneducated man. And they are scientist. Why there is no soul? What is the proof? What is their argument? Why they say there is no soul? What is the argument?

Australian devotee 2: Because it says in the Bible that until one accepts Jesus Christ one has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ said that animal has no soul? Has he said like that? Has he said?

Australian devotee 2: He says that one must be born again.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Śrutakīrti: It's twenty-five before seven.

Harikeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, do we say that they've gone to Rahu simply to placate them?

Prabhupāda: No, accidentally they went to Rahu. Maybe. That is also not...

Indian man: (break)...gone at all outside this atmosphere of earth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...haven't gone to moon planet, that is my... (break) ...why they will give it up? That is the proof. America was found by Columbus. So many people came from Europe and utilized it. So if they would have gone to moon planet, they would have utilized it. But they have not gone. That is the fact.

Paramahaṁsa: That was their original proposal, that they can utilize it, make colonies there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes.

Devotee (3): The moon exploration, because they thought that we cannot use the moon like Columbus, they used America.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, no. His non-acceptance means he's a rascal. He's a rascal. He may waste his time in that way. What can be done? His non-acceptance means he's a rascal. It's evident. Anyone knows that "After this, I will get another body." You are all young men. You know that you will get after some years a body like me. So what is the difficulty to understand that we are changing body?

Paramahaṁsa: So actually it's useless to try to give any more proof other than that.

Prabhupāda: That is sufficient for an intelligent man. That is sufficient.

Paramahaṁsa: So if a scientist or someone who has some degree in science comes to our movement, should we encourage him to try to prove through science the Kṛṣṇa conscious principle of transmigration and eternal quality of the soul?

Prabhupāda: Not necessary. Not necessary.

Paramahaṁsa: Better if he just...

Prabhupāda: It is not that if we prove scientifically there is soul, if there is scientific proof, not that all the people of the world will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, even if you do that. So it is useless. You simply understand what is stated by Kṛṣṇa.

Harikeśa: Can a material calculation prove a spiritual fact?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That's very good. That is very good for diabetic patient.

Devotee (1): Should we plant one on the land too?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) It is called...

Devotee (2): Kalajam?

Prabhupāda: Kalajam, yes. (break)... is good medicine for diabetes. (break) ...houses are all fire-proof, eh?

Devotee (1): That's what they say, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Siddha-svarūpa: No, they're not fire-proof.

Prabhupāda: No, they are concrete. There is no frame work.

Bali-mardana:. There is no wood.

Prabhupāda: No.

Siddha-svarūpa: Then how is it they had a fire in one? They had a fire in one recently.

Bali-mardana: Sometimes a fire starts in the kitchen or...

Prabhupāda: Kitchen, yes.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Indulge in sex.

Siddha-svarūpa: ...indulge in sex so that it's just a cultural thing that they actually try to control that just for health and mental power, whereas in the west the leaders and the people in general... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...and because they indulge too much in sex, therefore they cannot understand. That is the proof they are fools.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) ...control themselves. The colonialists will go in and... (break)

Prabhupāda: Unless they are taught about spiritual attraction, everyone will be finished. (break) ...very childhood they should be given spiritual education. (break) ...by repressive method you will never be successful.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, accepting that there is a eternal soul, how is the soul distinguished, then, from the body or from the machine since things like the senses, the mind, the intelligence, desire and hate, which people accept as the symptoms of the soul...

Prabhupāda: That is the proof, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body is finished, no more working, the soul is there, he has accepted another body. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are educated, sober they are not surprised. Those who are not educated, they are surprised. Therefore this very word is used, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means one who is sober by education. He knows the soul has now left this body. He has accepted another body. That is dhīra. He knows by education.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Crossley: I think you know your father. You know who he is.

Prabhupāda: How I know?

Dr. Crossley: Because you see him, you talk to him, you touch him.

Prabhupāda: But what is the proof that he is my father? I see so many gentlemen. How I know who is my father?

Dr. Crossley: He tells you you're his son.

Prabhupāda: That means you accept anyone as God—he tells that "I am God"?

Dr. Crossley: No, but I accept anyone as father who tells me that I am his son because only one has ever told me that.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that experience you can get. Just like God is describing Himself. Now, why don't you take that? Your description may be defective because you are imperfect. But if God Himself is giving His, I mean to say, identification, why don't you take it? Not only gives description, He acts according to the description. When Kṛṣṇa was present, He says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior element." He proved it when He was present. There was no more superior power than Him when Kṛṣṇa was present. In His opulence, in His richness, in His strength, in His education—everything, all topmost, Kṛṣṇa. All topmost. The proof is that because you get the topmost knowledge, therefore Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world, accepted, topmost knowledge. All scholars, all philosophers, all religionists, they read it.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now big, big scholars, they have taken the trouble to write on Bhagavad-gītā. But nobody has taken the trouble to write on other scriptures like Bible or Koran. Nobody has taken. No scholar, no philosopher have tried to comment or study because they know it is not very important. Here is important. This is the proof, wisest. And that is only ABCD of God's knowledge. So people should take advantage. It is accepted indirectly. There are so many editions of Bhagavad-gītā, in your country, English. Why they take trouble to read Bhagavad-gītā so carefully? Big, big scholars, philosophers, why? (break) It is the impersonal, cloth. So Śaṅkarācārya has tried to impress this fact, but the rascals followed in a different way. Just like a cloth, big cloth, that is impersonal. Now, you cut it into coat.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense, waste time. (break) ...you are eating you will understand yourself, "Yes, I am eating, I am getting strength, I am getting satisfaction." But simply theory..., "What will happen after eating? What will happen?" You eat and you see what is happening. What is the use of asking this question? You eat and you will understand. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...Harrison, he wrote in his preface that "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: So he recommended everyone to take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...daily, guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā **, what is that?

Nitāi: Cittete koriyā aikya.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: Oh, dear, no wonder. 1918-1920, that means... O.K. I see now what you're thinking about. That was many, many years ago.

Prabhupāda: So can you give any proof since then that the woman's... In 1920... She does not take it?

Nitāi: She does not take it. Somehow they think that the brain is no longer small. If it was small, then, it is not small today.

Prabhupāda: But where is the proof...

Woman reporter: You do not believe that there has been advancement of science since 1920?

Nitāi: Well, if the brain has been ascertained as being half the size then why should it change by now? Should it change?

Woman reporter: Well, do you think that the Romans weren't as tall as men are today?

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: That she and I wouldn't be here if women weren't more powerful than they were fifty years ago.

Harikeśa: Now they are talking louder. (laughter)

Woman reporter: Than you. Thank you. (woman leaves)

Harikeśa: The scientists have the theory that the brain, the intelligence is measured by creases in the brain, creases, not by size.

Prabhupāda: Not size, but what is the proof that the brain of woman has increased? Where is the proof?

Harikeśa: They think because the ego has increased, the brain has also increased.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. (laughter) That's nice. (laughing) So to become angry means defeat. If two persons are in argument the man, the one party, he becomes angry, that means he is defeated. Why one should become angry? It is the argument, logic. They should continue. And to become angry and to go away, that means defeat.

Harikeśa: They become upset because they cannot dominate you.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Woman requires to be protected—in childhood by the father, in youthhood by the husband, and in old age by the elderly sons.

Reporter (2): What is your feeling in regard to Mrs. Gandhi's actions in India at the present time, particularly in relation to what you're saying about women? Is what's happening there because she has a thirty-six ounce brain and is incapable of ruling?

Prabhupāda: Well, what is scientific proof, that is equally applicable to Mrs. Gandhi or to any ordinary woman.

Reporter: Is she having problems because she is a woman, though? If a man were in her position...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why you are trying to put me in the emergency law? (laughter)

Reporter (2): In the what?

Devotee: In the emergency rule.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: You've used the example of this, that woman is less intelligent of the size of the brain, given by one professor in 1920. So they took offense to this because their idea is that what might have been scientific fact in 1920, in 1975 is not scientific fact.

Prabhupāda: Then where is the proof? From 1920 to 1975, where is a woman who is extraordinarily bigger than man?

Brahmānanda: Well, they might be able to bring some scientist who would say in 1975 that according to their calculations, there is no difference between the brain of a woman and the brain of a man.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: In other words, that, what is considered scientific fact, that changes according to the social ideas that are prevalent in a particular time.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You take that...

Ravīndra-svarūpa: We could never know ourselves unless we knew all cases.

Prabhupāda: No, we do not require to know. We hear from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person. That is perfect

Devotee: That's our logic. You said that once.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our logic.

Gurudāsa: But also you said once that we feel it. That is our proof.

Prabhupāda: No, feel, you may wrongly feel because you are imperfect. That is not good argument. Our argument is that the message is coming from the most authorized personality; therefore it is perfect. And we receive guru-paramparā. That is our process. Evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The rājarṣis, means very, very, big, big, stalwart persons, they accept it. Just like Arjuna gives evidence that "I accept You. You are Parabrahma." So he, next line, he says, "It is not that I am saying. But big, big personalities like Vyāsadeva, he has said. Nārada has said. Asita has said. And You are personally saying, so I have no doubt." This is our process. (break) ...Upendra, Upendra has not come? (break) ...knowledge is always imperfect.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So let him prove there is soul. That will be great service to the western world, if a scientist and philosopher, psychologist proves that "Here is soul."

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, how should they set out to prove it, though? We've proved it by giving scriptural evidence. But how should a scientist do it?

Prabhupāda: No, we prove it as a living and dead man, we give that proof. What is the difference between this dead man and living man? What is losing? What is missing? This is the proof. If... I so many times spoken that son is crying, "My father is gone, my father." "Where is your father gone? He is lying here. So what is gone? You have not seen it." This is the proof. Why do you cry, "Father is gone"? Father is lying here. Why do you say, "gone"? So that means what is gone, you have never seen it. Now you perceive, "Yes, something was there. Now he is gone." This is the proof.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Bahulāśva: Yesterday many people bought your books.

Brahmānanda: And it says here, "Birth, old age, disease and death." What is this? "The Bhagavad-gītā we find information that besides earth, water, fire, air, space as well as the mind, intelligence and false ego, there exists a superior energy form. That superior energy is called ātmā, the self. There is an obvious difference between you and the ground. That factor that distinguishes the animate from the inanimate is consciousness. That consciousness or awareness of being is proof of the existence of the self."

Prabhupāda: Very nice. This is the library? No.

Bahulāśva: No, just student union. Around three thousand dollars of books were sold yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And sweets?

Bahulāśva: Oh, around five thousand. (laughter) The tongue is most voracious.

Yadubara: I talked to one boy yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he was there at the festival because he had found your books in the school library. And he said now he was saved.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Lalitā: The reaction will start.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lalitā: And it is a proof. I will tell what Guru Mahārāja has done.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am simply... This is our process. We don't manufacture nonsense things. They are afraid of me because they see that in spite of their so many hypnotism and magic, and what is called, miracles, they are..., where they are and where I am. That is their fear.

Lalitā: Fear.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They understood that "This man does not show any magic, and he is playing wonderful thing." That, every gentleman, every man, can understand. When I was at Kumbha-melā all these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they were receiving me like anything because they understand that they could not do anything. How they can do? Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāra. One must receive strength from the superior; then it is possible. It is not a bogus thing, that anyone can do it. Kṛṣṇa śakti... It is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Have you got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: To stop wars. But they haven't stopped a single war.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: But if Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme and I should surrender unto Him, then why is it so hard to find out this knowledge? Why is it that only in the human form of life... Why is it so difficult to come to this knowledge if...

Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal. For rascal everything is difficult. Easy thing is made difficult by rascals. That is the proof that you are rascal. By nature one is supposed to surrender to the parents. This is easy. Why do you do not do this? This is natural. Just like you have surrendered to me. Why? Because you think I am superior, you have to take knowledge from me. So if you have to accept some superior for your guidance, how you can deny surrendering? You see, brahmacārī, he is being taught daṇḍavat śīraṣi, by touching the head. Yesterday we were talking of that brahmacārī? That is the instruction. Who is this boy?

Harikeśa: He's Kuṇḍali. He just came from New York.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Brahmānanda: They resent it.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you accept? Why do you agree?

Brahmānanda: Well, more and more now the women are not having sex with men anymore. They're having sex with other women.

Prabhupāda: Then the population will stop? Will the population stop anymore? Then where is the proof? Just see how foolishness.

Harikeśa: Sometimes they argue that only a small...

Prabhupāda: This is argument. This is argument, that it is not fact. Let them... Women has agreed not to have sex with man. Then close all these maternity hospitals. That is the only happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukha hi tuccham. The husband and wife, they, I mean to say, mix together only for this, especially in this age. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. They get married only for sex pleasure, not for any other purpose. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. Otherwise the purpose is husband and wife together, they will worship Laksmi-Narayana and become perfect. That is the description given in Puṁsavana. You will get the statement there how the husband and wife is advised to worship Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣm-Nārāyaṇa. Therefore you will find in Hindu culture, every family, Lakṣm-Nārāyaṇa worship, the husband and wife. Still there are, there is some glimpse of human civilization in India. So we can revive it. In Bhogilal's house there is no dog.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Guest (2): That's not what I mean. What I mean is have Americans started to be less violent, for instance, or have they started to be less egotistical or...

Brahmānanda: Well, not unless they follow our movement. But those who have followed our movement... Recently there was one study that was published by a very eminent sociologist in America from the University of California, the (sic:) Union Theological Center, and he stated in that book that the members of this movement, formerly they were drug-addicted hippies, and now they have become servants of Kṛṣṇa and humanity, loving servants. So he has given proof through intensive interviews that one who follows and joins this movement, dramatically his life becomes changed.

Prabhupāda: Perfect. He is a big professor, and his books are being sold in higher circles. Professor Judah. And he has studied this movement for five years. And... You have got that book?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Show him. So they are appreciating. Appreciation has begun. Formerly they thought it is another edition of hippie movement, but now they are realizing it is not. A cultural. He has given the name of the book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture. He is selling at the cost of twelve dollars; still, all high class, educated class, are purchasing.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Picture you can manufacture here.

Harikeśa: And they have earth dust as if it came from the moon.

Prabhupāda: And the other scientist says this kind dust can be had here. So what is the proof they went there? It can be collected here.

Harikeśa: And their dust does not reflect. They say the moon is reflective, but the dust and the pictures, it was all dark gray. No reflection.

Prabhupāda: So therefore if I say that they did not go to the moon, how they can support?

Harikeśa: They cannot prove. They are so clever and sophisticated with their nonsense, they can even make the astronauts believe...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I asked you to ask them, "Why Sunday first and Monday next?"

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: But if we're always thinking of death, how can we enjoy life now?

Prabhupāda: But death is sure. If you are not thinking, then you are a rascal. That is the point. (laughs) Death is sure. And if you are not thinking, then you are a rascal. That is the proof. Suppose I am sitting here, we are walking here, and some danger is coming. It will immediately kill. So shall I remain here very peacefully? First of all make insurance, just like they make insurance, that no death will come. Your scientific advancement, your so many advancement, make it sure that you will not die. You will live here comfortably forever. Then you make your house nice, decorate it very... Where is that arrangement?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if death is sure in any case... If death is sure in any case, for the thinking man or for the nonthinking man, then why think about it?

Prabhupāda: No, non... For thinking men, for them there is no death; there is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between thinking men and nonthinking men. We are preparing for going... (break) There is... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is intelligence. Now, suppose that here is open field. There is... We are walking very nicely.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Matchbox.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said last night that without electricity it would be hell.

Prabhupāda: It is hell. And we are creating this hell.

Harikeśa: I don't know. I'm enjoying.

Prabhupāda: You are a rascal. That is the proof you are a rascal. (laughter)

Devotee (1): We need defense so we have to work hard to keep defense, economy. The common man has to contribute to the state to keep its defense.

Prabhupāda: Defense, that means...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's today... Unless there is very complex society...

Devotee (1): Otherwise we will be exploited.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Unless there is a very complex...

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they will say that this so-called suffering is actually pleasure.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Go on pleasure. Who checks you? Enjoy this pleasure. If everything is pleasure, then why you take the counteractive process? Why do you want to kill child? Pleasure? Why do you take contraceptive method if it is pleasure? That is the proof how much rascal they are. Mūḍha nābhijānāti. Try to understand why Kṛṣṇa has spoken so many times, "mūḍhas, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā." Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is speaking like that. There must be some meaning. Human civilization means to give relief to the human being, comfortable life, not to repeat the same business like the animals. That is human civilization.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We see practically that only the devotees are somewhat free from anxiety.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: He's a fool.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...it is very difficult for them to approach guru.

Prabhupāda: He is a fool, rascal, blind. Where there is happiness not possible, he is trying to find out happiness. Therefore he is a fool. Which is not possible, if one tries for it, then he is fool.

Harikeśa: But I look around and I see everybody else enjoying.

Prabhupāda: Because you are fool, you are seeing like that. That is the proof that you are a fool.

Harikeśa: They all tell me what a great time...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), and you are finding out happiness. Then how much fool you are. The best authority says that "This is a place of suffering," and you are finding out happiness. So how much fool you are, it is very difficult to estimate. (laughter) Therefore Vedic knowledge is perfect. Now just like there is signboard, "No admission." So who is the fool, create some trouble by entering into it? He's a fool. If there is signboard, "There is no admission," and if somebody enters to create some trouble, he is not a fool? So Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no happiness," and if somebody searches happiness, he is not a fool? That is... Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness required, that he gets perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. He has no trouble. Kṛṣṇa said, "There is no happiness," and if somebody thinks, "All right, although Kṛṣṇa said, let me try for it," then he is a fool.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: They think. That is another thing. But you do not know what is happiness. These rascals, they do not think that what is happiness. Suppose I have arranged for so-called happiness. Then I am going to die also. Who will enjoy this?

Harikeśa: But I'm not worried about it.

Prabhupāda: That is the proof that you are a rascal. "Fools rush in where angels dare not." That is the proof. The hog is thinking, "I am very happy." Therefore he is hog. He is not a human being. Hog proves that he is hog by thinking that "I am very happy. I am getting fatty." (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...suffer. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That's a fact. So why is it that people are thinking they are happy?

Prabhupāda: That I have repeatedly said. Therefore, because they are thinking like that, therefore they are rascals. That is the proof. There is no happiness; still, he is thinking, "I am happy." That is the proof that he's a rascal. (break)

Harikeśa: Well, we can admit that we're not happy all the time, but what is the meaning of happiness without distress? If there's no distress, how can I be happy?

Prabhupāda: So that is material knowledge. In order to taste happiness, you have to suffer. That is material happiness. And happiness, pure, is spiritual happiness. Here, in order to enjoy happiness, you have to suffer; then you can taste. Therefore that is not real happiness.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: The same thing, that small animals praising the big animals, that's all. At least they say something about God. They are not zero, but they have no clear conception of God.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But everyone is thinking that their religion is the best. Even the Christian may be ignorant, even the Jew may be ignorant, anyone—doesn't matter—they're thinking that theirs is the best.

Prabhupāda: That is the proof that everyone is fool. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). First of all... Therefore we have to understand from Bhāgavata that what is real religion. Real religion means love of Godhead. So instead of love of Godhead, the love of doghead is increasing. So where is religion? Everybody should keep a dog and serve him, and where is God?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they think that God is in the other world, so that in this world we can serve our wife and family, and when we go to the other world we'll serve God.

Prabhupāda: Then God is separated from this world. How much imperfect knowledge it is. God has created this world, and He has nothing to do with. Just see. They say God created this world, but He has nothing to do with it.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Who?

Harikeśa: His disciples gave him, Maharishi, four big pills of LSD.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maharishi?

Harikeśa: Yes. And he just stood there and said nothing happened. So everybody said, "This is proof that he's already there."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Because he just stood there and said, "Nothing is happening to me," everybody has figured that he is already there.

Prabhupāda: "There" means where?

Harikeśa: At the ultimate.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So how can we prove that? How can we make the spirit soul appear?

Prabhupāda: How can you bring life force? Have you brought? Then how you can question this? If you have brought life otherwise, then you can question. As you cannot bring life otherwise, you have to accept this. This is the proof. Not only that: because the soul is there, therefore I am talking with you. I am replying your inquiries. And when the soul is not there, even the tongue is there, even the ear is there, I cannot hear you, I cannot reply you. (break) ...instrument is there by which I talk, why he cannot talk?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The spirit soul is not present.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: They will argue.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Because the heart is full of dirty things, so therefore ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, this is the process. First of all cleanse the heart. Just like slate. If it is unclean, or the mirror, if it is unclean, you cannot see. So you have to cleanse his heart. That we can do. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... And that is proof. Otherwise how could you come to this camp unless the heart is cleansed? That's a proof.

Brahmānanda: They came by the chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some fish? No.

Brahmānanda: In the Old Testament, God was speaking to Moses. So Moses wanted to see God. He was on a mountain. And he turned around, but then God became a burning bush.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Harikeśa: Well, but verbal analogies don't prove the scientific a fact.

Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. Verbal analogy is proof. A small quantity, a small quantity producing; large quantity, large quantity producing. Where is the verbal? This is practical.

Harikeśa: But that's assuming that God has a body, or there even is a God.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But that is... You are blind rascal, you cannot see. That does not mean that He has no body. You cannot see even the president's body here. That means president has no body? You rascal, you cannot understand. Because you cannot see the president's body, you cannot say, "No, the president is bodyless." That is your defect. You become qualified to see the president. You'll see he has got a body. Those who are not qualified to see him, they can say that he has not body. But why he has no body? śāstra says. So if you remain fools and rascals, that is another thing, but He has a body. Iśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda, Brahmā is saying. Why He has no body? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means body.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Devotee (3): (break) You were speaking about the blind person who is thinking that he can see. He is in illusion. How can we best convince him that he is not able to see?

Prabhupāda: You have to convince him that "Your eyes are imperfect." Then you can tell, "Just close your eyes. Can you see the eyelid? It closes, but you cannot see. Why? You have got eyes. When there is some particle in the eye, so close and find out where is the particle. Why making this way, this way, this way? So what is the value of your eyes? This is the proof. You cannot see even your eyelids. So why do... Why you are so much proud of seeing?" Is it not?

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is conviction. He can say that "I cannot see on account of distant place, the planet," but you see the nearest. So you cannot see distant place things and you cannot see nearest. Then what is the value of your eyes? That means you can see only under certain condition. So condition is offered by somebody else. Therefore you are conditioned. Your seeing is conditioned, because it is not absolute. So how do you believe your eyes? Hm?

Devotee (3): The vision of the eyes is imperfect. We have to see by intelligence, from the authority...

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So why shall I accept them?

Yaśomatīnandana: How can we prove the...

Prabhupāda: They cannot prove. Our proof is already there. They cannot prove. Why don't you take that point, that these rascals, they are contradictory to one another, so they cannot prove. Our proof is already there.

Yaśomatīnandana: That is what we should aim at. We should aim at "You cannot prove your..."

Prabhupāda: You cannot prove. You are contradictory. So why shall I accept you or he? We accept our own proof. That's all. First of all you agree amongst yourselves; then question us. You cannot agree. Why shall I believe you? One says that "He is wrong" and the other says "He is wrong." Now we say "You are both wrong. We reject you." Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how do we support our challenge that they have not gone to the moon?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (3): How do we support our challenge to the scientists that they have not actually gone to the moon?

Prabhupāda: First proof is that they say that there is no life. That is foolishness. There is life. Because we find everywhere life, why not in the moon planet? And there are many others. The first challenge is this.

Devotee (3): They say that they have not seen the life, though.

Prabhupāda: But what you can see, rascal? Therefore we say you are rascals. Why do you believe your eyes? You cannot see so many things. We don't find any living entity in the ocean. Does it mean there is no living entity? So what is the value of your seeing? That is the defect. They believe in too much their eyes. Although eyes are... Every sense is imperfect. You can see here: "Oh, we don't find anything. It is all zero." Does it mean the sky is zero? There are millions of planets and millions of living entities. So that is their rascaldom.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana. As soon as there is no religion, the population-animal, that's all. That is going on. Because there was no religion, therefore the government has to declare emergency. (laughter) Because all animals. So they created first animals, then emergency. This is going on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why emergency? If there is human being, then why emergency? All animals. To control the animals you require some special measure. This is the proof that they're animals. Otherwise why? Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is long, long ago said, dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana: "When you give up religion, you are no better than animals."

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what is the use of it? Anything made by rascal, is that perfect?

Harikeśa: Well it's better than some mythological book!

Prabhupāda: No, book also, you write book and you want to believe, others your book. That is also book. Why do you write scientific book?

Harikeśa: Well they're proven, those other books...

Prabhupāda: What is proven? You cannot say what is the chemical there, wherefrom came. Is that proof? "We cannot say." Is that proof?

Harikeśa: Well we know how they interact. We may not know how they got here but we know what they do once they are here.

Prabhupāda: No... Knowledge means to find out the source. That is knowledge. Where from it comes. There is a good example we studied in our childhood. A child was very intelligent so he was beating on a drum, so he was very much inquisitive, "Where from the sound is coming?" Then he cut the surface... (laughing) That is intelligence. Inquisitive... where from the sound is coming? Although it was childish but that is innate intelligence.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: But I couldn't understand how air...

Prabhupāda: You have to gain that intelligence.

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Sound is the proof that there is ether. Śabda. Now, I am talking, you are hearing. How you are hearing? Ethereal transportation. Otherwise how you can hear? I am talking here, and why you are hearing? This is ethereal. The sound is being produced, somehow or other the ether is passing, just (like) tele... What is called? Radio.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Air from the ether because when the air blows, you find the sound, sshhhh. That is ether.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, like some...

Harikeśa: But the example's got to go the other way. From the ether comes the air.

Prabhupāda: That you found out, example. But this is the proof there is ether within the air. That example is given many times in Bhagavad-gītā.

Passerby: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Haṁsadūta: Does it mean beyond the ether there's no sound?

Prabhupāda: Beyond the ether there is mind, there is mind.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: The philosophy classes are being closed now in the universities.

Harikeśa: It is useless.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're thinking it is useless, simply mental speculation. And Bhagavad-gītā says, tattva jñānārthaṁ darśanam. Philosophy means to find out the ultimate truth. That is philosophy.

Harikeśa: But actually this is the proof of Marx's philosophy...

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore I say the dialectic. The dialectics should proceed further. They have ended this, that the workers should be the proprietor.

Harikeśa: So now the, the, the, there's no philosophy. So the workers, they are simply frustrated. Now they're going to rebel and revolt without any philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be natural. Because if you cannot live perfect philosophy, then they will revolt. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ... You are a rascal, and you're trying to lead other rascals with some rascal philosophy. How long this rascaldom will go on?

Harikeśa: So there's no need for any movement...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: ...Communist movement.

Page Title:Proof (Conv. 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, JayaNitaiGaura
Created:23 of May, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=143, Let=0
No. of Quotes:143