Poor man (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"poor man" |"poor men" |"poorer men" |"poorest man"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Fifth scene, Lord Caitanya's mother, Śacīdevī, is sitting underneath a tree, a nim tree. It is called nim tree. And the little child on her lap and the visitors, so many visitors are coming, and they are offering some presentation. Somebody is offering gold necklace, somebody offering some bangles, some cloth, some money, and his father, he...what is called...Jagannātha Miśra. Jagannātha Miśra is there? Yes. Jagannātha Miśra, His father. He was, whatever money and clothes and gold and silver, they were coming, he was also distributing to poor men, some dancers. In India there is a system... What you call the eunuchs? Those who are neither male or female. What do you call? What is their name?

Hayagrīva: A combination of both, male and female? A hermaphrodite. A hermaphrodite.

Prabhupāda: Eunuch, what is that eunuch?

Hayagrīva: A eunuch is...

Prabhupāda: Feminine.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Devotee (2): Then why is it seen that they are making spiritual advancement?

Prabhupāda: No, they don't make any spiritual advancement. They come down. Don't you see this impersonalist, Vivekananda? He took sannyāsa; he came to hospital-making, came back. They are not advancing. They are coming back, falling down. While they have no engagement in devotional service, they say, "Oh, why you are finding God anywhere? Here is God, daridra-nārāyaṇa, these poor men." That's it. That is not advancement. They are coming down. Now, they come down and they defame Nārāyaṇa, that "Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." He has found Nārāyaṇa is daridra.

Revatinandana: What is that word?

Prabhupāda: Daridra. Daridra means poor, poor. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is manufactured word by Vivekananda. They are so proud that "When a beggar comes at your door, you should treat him as Nārāyaṇa, daridra." These are simply high-sounding words. What they are doing actually for the daridras?

Revatinandana: So that is service in the mode of ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Revatinandana: That is service in the mode of ignorance?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They cannot serve. All these welfare activities of the world, what they are serving? That I explained this morning. They are trying to give help to the poor, but the number of poor is increasing. They are trying to give medicine or relief to the suffering patients. The patients are increasing. Hospitals are increasing. But if our number of temples, Kṛṣṇa temples is increase, that is something sound. But they are increasing hospitals. What do you think? If we increase number of hospitals, does it mean that we are making progress? But they think that they are making progress. Just like in your country there is welfare department? The expenditure increasing.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that every living being, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got many expansion. That is called personal expansion and separated expansion. So separated expansions we are, we living entities. But although we are very intimately connected with Kṛṣṇa, somehow or other we are now separated by contact of material nature. So we have practically forgotten that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Actually that is the fact. And because... Just like a rich man's son. Somehow or other, he has forgotten his father, and he's loitering in the street as a poor man. But actually that is not his position. He has forgotten simply. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to invoke that original consciousness that he's part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Why he should remain in this material world and suffer the threefold miseries? So we want to revive that original consciousness. The original consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a man born of a lord's family, his title should be the lord's family. But unfortunately, forgetting his own home, he is accepting some menial title. So our whole Vedic literature is meant for that purpose, to revive his original consciousness.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that every living being, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got many expansions. That is called personal expansion and separated expansion. So separated expansions we are, we living entities. But although we are very intimately connected with Kṛṣṇa, somehow or other we are now separated by contact of material nature. So we have practically forgotten that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Actually, that is a fact. And because he forgets, just like a rich man's son, somehow or other he has forgotten his father, and he's loitering in the streets a poor man. But actually that is not his position. He has forgotten simply. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to invoke that original consciousness that he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Why he should remain in this material world and suffer the threefold miseries? So we want to revive our original consciousness. The original consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a man born of a lord's family, his title should be the lord family, but unfortunately, forgetting his own home, he's accepting some menial title. So our whole Vedic literature is meant for that purpose, to revive his original consciousness, ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: If I was the Western government and you handed the most perfect knowledge to me, I would knight you also, in the name of myself. Certainly I would knight you.

Prabhupāda: So Rādhā-kuṇḍa Mukerjee, he has supported cow slaughter. He was given a post, made a parliament member first of all. So this poor man, five hundred rupees per month, he accepted. Then he induced that "You take more money, write like this." So if you pay money... British government's whole policy was that if the Indians are kept strict Hindus, it is next to impossible to govern them. So therefore they adopted this policy. They changed the whole policy how the Hindu will think everything mentioned in the śāstra is nonsense. They have trained up, and Nehru is the first-class trainee. Everything mentioned in the śāstra, the Arya-samaj, they also wrote Saptartha (indistinct), so many. And Dr. Radhakrishnan also. All the scholars, they would never mention any śāstra more than once within one thousand years. That means...

Dr. Kapoor: Otherwise they would not be scholars.

Prabhupāda: No. Otherwise they will not be scholars.

Room Conversations -- April 22, 1972, Japan:

Bhānu: Should the Deities be offered grains for breakfast?

Prabhupāda: No. Grains...Grains only bhoga-ārati and at night... Purī also grain. It is also grain. And during daytime, cāpāṭī, rice, dahl, like that. Breakfast, fruits, milk, sweets, breakfast. And early, maṅgala-ārati, condensed milk. And breakfast, butter, sugar candy, casein. You are calling Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. You must offer Him nice things. Not a poor man gets like Him. He's the richest man. If a poor man can be supplied so many things, how the rich man should be offered? And as far as possible, distribute prasādam. (break) People should be called.

Sudāmā: So we should take the Deity prasādam and our prasādam and go to all the houses?

Prabhupāda: No no. You invite them, that "Anyone, you are welcome. Take prasādam." We can announce. Then you can judge how many people are coming daily. You should announce that "Anyone can come and take prasādam at noon." It is the duty of a gṛhastha to loudly cry, "If anyone is hungry, please come. We have got still food." That is the duty of a gṛhastha. If one does not come, then the chief of the house, he takes prasāda. If somebody says, "I am hungry," so he should offer his own food. "You eat." This is duty of gṛhastha. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanti. Those who are cooking for themselves, they are simply eating sinful things. That's all. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). So hospitality is one of the duties of the householder. Atithi. Atithi means guest without any information. That is called atithi. Tithi means date. So if I go to your house, I inform you that "Such and such date I am coming there." But atithi, he does not inform you, all of a sudden comes. So you should have to receive him. That is called atithi. Pāntha. People are moving... Formerly, if some of the walkers in the street, suppose he has become hungry, so he enters anyone's house. So "I am hungry sir. Give me something to eat." He'll immediately, "Take." Pāntha-bhāga. There is a stock of foodstuff which is called pāntha-bhāga. If somebody comes all of a sudden, he should take.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Devotee (1): Cut him down.

Prabhupāda: That's right. This is material. Matsaratā. This is explained in Bhāgavata as matsaratā. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaḥ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2).

Devotee (1): Last night you said that that man's claim was like a poor man saying, "Yes, I'll become a millionaire."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): "Someday I'll become a millionaire."

Prabhupāda: And he wants the respect of a millionaire immediately, with future tense. Just see. "You give me the respect of a millionaire. I shall become in future a millionaire." What is this nonsense? First of all you become millionaire, then ask the respect. They want the credit beforehand. Trust no future, however pleasant. Why shall I believe you?

Devotee (1): There's a lake over there. There's a pond, we can walk down there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, bridge we are not going to cross? All right.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: The Indians would never be able to compete on the Britishers' platform.

Prabhupāda: No. Under the British rule, from the childhood they are subjected to the propaganda. We read one book, small book, by M. Ghose. The subject matter was England's work in India. That was a compulsory reading book in the schools. And in that book, it was simply stated that "we are uncivilized, but since the Britishers have come, we are becoming civilized. "This is the subject matter of that book, "England's work in India." So everything Indian... The Jawaharlal is the typical example—everything Indian is bad. That was his philosophy. Gandhi was trying to get the Indians back to village. His philosophy was that these capitalists, they are exploiting these poor men, so all these poor men, they should go back to village and be satisfied with the village economy, not to come out. Actually that's a very nice program. But as soon as Gandhi died, or he was killed, the whole program was changed-industrialization and attract the poor man and let them live in wretched condition of city life. Gandhi's policy was to make them happy by agriculture in the village, produce their own cloth, not in the mill but in charka.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So blessings of Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor. He is a Vaiṣṇava. Although by age he is my younger brother, we are Godbrothers, and for the last forty years perhaps, since he was a student at Allahabad and I was doing some business there, we are known to each other. So his association is a great blessing for us. But this reception is actually not my reception. It is the reception of my foreign students. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that His message should be broadcast all over the world, in every village and every town, and my Guru Mahārāja attempted. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura distributed his literature. I think, in 1896, he sent his first book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and I saw in McGill University that book. And I do not know. That was the year of my birth also, 1896. So somehow or other, later on, I came in contact with Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja in 1922, and he immediately asked me that "Why don't you go to the foreign countries and preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessings." So I was little surprised. Especially at that time, I was very young man and I was newly married. I got one son also. So it was my mistake that I did not take up the words of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja immediately. I thought that "I am now married. Let me settle down." Perhaps if I would have joined from 1922, by the blessings of Guru Mahārāja, I could do more preaching work. Anyway, it is better late than never. After my retirement, I was living in the Keśī-ghāṭa, Nāthagrāma(?) Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple. But this Gosāijī, Gauracanda Gosāijī, he asked me, "Why don't you come here?" So I left that place. I came here. And with some arrangement, I took this room. But I was always thinking that "Guru Mahārāja asked me, and he asked also some of my other God-brothers, but up till now, nothing has been done. So let me try, at least, at the fag end of my life." So I left Vṛndāvana in 1970 and went to New York. Uh, not. 1965. At the age of 70 years. But for one year I had no place to live. I took some of my books, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, printed here, up to three parts, First Canto. And I was personally selling these books to the book sellers and to the persons any way. With great difficulty I was pulling on. And New York is a very expensive city, a great city, a great forest. (laughs) And I am poor man. So then it is a long history. Then I began chanting in the Tompkinson Square, and I think, in the first day this boy, Acyutānanda Mahārāja now, he and another boy, Brahmānanda Mahārāja, he is also preaching in Africa, these two boys danced, and this photograph was published in the New York Times with great details. That was the first encouragement. And after chanting in the park, many young men and girls used to come to my apartment and my meeting place. In this way I started, first in New York, then in San Francisco, then Montreal, then Boston. In this way, now we have got about one hundred branches all over the world, forty branches in America. Big, big cities, Australia, I mean to say, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Boston. What is that? Other cities? San Francisco.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: I think they must be.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever he is being paid, we shall pay. (indistinct).

Gurudāsa: (indistinct) also knows it, because he announced to this chairman of the council that he will become the gardener and they will become the pūjārīs. So he is for that.

Prabhupāda: The poor man, unless he gets some income, he becomes (indistinct).

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He is not renounced. So let him (indistinct). So when you are going to talk to the Mahārāja?

Gurudāsa: I will be going today if he sends a car. Or if not, I think I will go tomorrow. But that means I cannot go to Delhi. But I don't think... I think Manasvi and Mr. Sarkar, the engineer, can handle this deal. It's just to see if they can give another allotment.

Prabhupāda: Not that everywhere you have to go. You go to the important business.

Gurudāsa: So which do you think is more important—this deal or the palace? I think the palace.

Prabhupāda: Anyone can purchase. But to get the palace it requires great tactful dealing.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And I was in month of June, still in the morning the wind was so cold. And there is double glass in every window, double glass. Just like aeroplane, double. And at half past eleven in the month of June, when in your country it is half past eleven o'clock, that is evening. And at half past three o'clock, morning. And still the little night, that is just like dusk; it is not completely dark. And laborer class... (speaks to someone in Hindi) Keep it open. (break) (indistinct) Every corner of the street, Lenin's picture. All books are sold, they are Lenin. No other literature. You cannot get taxi. Poor men, they cannot pay for taxi. Very little number. When I was talking with Professor Kotovsky, so I asked him, "Now we shall go. Get me taxi." So he, "Yes, it is Moscow." So he got down, he personally showed me, "Instead of taking taxi waiting, please go in this way when you go to your hotel." He showed me shortcut. People are walking, and they are running for the bus. It is not at all a rich country. A poor country. And if you see the shops, you will find old (indistinct), just like antique shop. Because you cannot purchase generally, everything you have to purchase from government store, and in queue. It is botheration. And actually in India it is going to happen like this. Everything you have to purchase in queue. Here?

Indian man: Oh, yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is done. Just like sometimes I think that I came here alone without any expectation of success, and this movement has become so nice. Actually, by one man's effort it was not possible. But it has become so. This is acintya-śakti, Kṛṣṇa's, inconceivable. Even a modern businessman, he cannot organize such a worldwide organization in such short a time. We have talked with many businessmen in India. Some said, "We have got thirty branches," somebody says, "We have got forty," another twenty branches. Our students say "My Guru Mahārāja has 102 branches." So they say, "No, we cannot compare with your Guru Mahārāja." So this is acintya-śakti. You can see so many things, the acintya-śakti is working. So unless we accept acintya-śakti of God, it is not possible to understand what is God. Inconceivable potency. And that is actually a fact. We want to bring God to our level, that's frog philosophy. Atlantic Ocean to the level of well. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. We have to understand that this whole universe... Just like Arjuna saw the virāḍ-rūpa, universal form. So this whole universe is the form of the Lord. So if in my body there are so many chemicals, enzymes, and other things, so how much there must be, proportionately? Suppose if we find some portion of chemicals in my body, you will find less in the ant's body. Or you will find more in the elephant's body. So if I can create so many chemicals within my body, how much chemicals He can create? On that account... Your theory, that combination of hydrogen, oxygen makes water, that is a fact. But you are surprised, wherefrom such a big quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came so that the ocean is there. That you cannot calculate. But we answer: "This hydrogen, oxygen is there in the body, universal body of the Lord." Therefore you find. Why do they, do not understand this plain thing? Hydrogen, oxygen we accept; that's a fact. But you are surprised wherefrom this big quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came? That we answer. So let us cooperate. Then the people will be happy. That is acintya-śakti. If a poor man cannot spend ten dollars and if a rich man immediately spends million dollars, he becomes surprised, "How it is possible? How it is possible?" It is like that. We have got the capacity of not even ten dollars. We are thinking of millions and trillion dollars. Adara vapari yahan khabor.(?) You know this? Adar, adar, adar means ginger. A ginger merchant, he is asking, "When the another ship will come?" Ginger is never purchased ship loaded. You take little ginger. If you have got one bag of ginger, then it will be sold in three years. So adar vapari yahan khabor. (?) What you have got to do with ship, shipment? You just carry one bag or ten sheer(?) or ten kilos... That's all. So these rascals, they are adar vapari, and they are taking account of where is that ship.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

David Wynne: No.

Prabhupāda: That is our problem. Either you become rich man or poor man, but you have to undergo. (aside:) Make the light. There is switch. (pause) So our position is that we are in this material world. George has sung that "I am in the material world." Yes, very sensible song. (laughs) He's good boy, realizing, he also... So this material life is not good. Material life is not good in this sense, because you have to change your body. Sometimes good birth, sometimes not good birth. Sometimes Englishman, sometimes cats, dogs. Because after death you'll get a body that will be chosen not by you but by the material nature. You'll create your body by your present activities, and nature will simply award you that body. So, so long we have got this material body, the four kinds of miserable conditions, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, you have to suffer. Therefore, this human life should be utilized in such a way that we do not become subject to these four tribulations, birth, death, old age and disease. That is perfection. But people are not given that chance, the modern education, modern civilization. They've no knowledge; they do not know that there is life after death, although it is a simple fact. Just like in our present existence we have got past, present and future. Just like you are young man, you have your past. You are a child, or a boy, now that is past. Present, you are young man, and in future you are expecting to become old man. So as you have got past, present and future, similarly, I'm old man, I've got my past life, why not future? What is the reason to deny it? Past, present, future, that is the time calculation. I had my past, I've now present, and why is my future? They do not care for the future. They're so blind.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. I am making atomic bomb, you are making... Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters. But did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat. Just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up." So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter. Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable. And they eat and they live. Now the advancement... Agricultural institute, a big college, how to improve agriculture. Crude people, they are producing also. Without agricultural college, they are producing sufficiently grain and eating. Still they do so. Do they depend on agricultural education? Real education is how to solve the problems of life, birth, death, old age, and how to go back to home, back to... That is education. This is not education. This is simply waste of time. Because you cannot change your destiny. Now, take for example, there are so many agricultural improvements. Does it mean that there is no person who is needy? There are so many needy persons. But has the agricultural education improved their lot? No. Starving people are still there. Rather, those who can produce, they're producing and throwing into the sea. They'll not part with it for the poor men who are starving.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At night they were guests. They were talking very friendly, and there is no enmity. But in daytime they'll fight. (laughter)

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes. Gautama the Buddha, whom I follow, who is my teacher, a poor man came, and he found him panting, asked him, "Well, what's the trouble?" "Oh, I've got news that you're here. I want to see you." And the Buddha found that not only had he run... He asked him, "When did you last have a meal?" He said, "That's quite a few days ago." He said, "We cannot preach on empty stomachs. Ānanda, give this man a good meal before he could come to me." And this fine virtue of hospitality, much as we have treasured in the past, when people leave their shores, they are inclined to forget this. I've been addressing various groups. I do not confine myself to Buddhist groups only. Whatever group was interested, to foster some understanding, good will and peace, I addressed. I said three things that many people forget when they leave their countries are first, their serene smile; secondly, hospitality; thirdly, they become ashamed of their own cultures because many are strangers of their own cultures.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brāhmaṇa. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can accept your service in any of these material. So-called material. Actually there is no material things. Material things means the desire for sense gratification. That is material. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā—tāre bali 'kām (CC Adi 4.165).' That is material. Kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma. That is spiritual. So that picture, that must be kept in a nice altar, regularly ārati and everything should go on. (pause) (break) mūḍha's position. Vyāsadeva has given Kṛṣṇa's pastimes in the Tenth Canto of Bhāgavata. Nine canto are devoted for understanding Kṛṣṇa, beginning from janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme, what is Para-brahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is beginning. That Kṛṣṇa is personally explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. What Bhāgavata has described, what is Kṛṣṇa simply... Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Here also, this Vīrarāghavācārya says in (indistinct) jijñāsayā. He has given the meaning of jijñāsayā. Yes. Jñāna-buddha-vicāreṇa jijñāsayā (?). Jijñāsayā means vedānta-vākya-vicāreṇa. Vedānta. Jijñāsā. Jijñāsā, inquisitiveness, should be satisfied by the answers given in the Vedānta. Jijñāsayā. So Vedānta begins with this jijñāsā, inquisitiveness. Jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for inquiring about the Supreme Brahman. Jijñāsā. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. And Bhāgavata says jijñāsu. And Bhagavad-gītā also says, jñāni jijñāsuḥ ca bharatarṣabha. Catur-vidhā. Find out this. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām, sukṛtino 'rjuna. Those who are pious, they can begin bhajana. Sukṛtinaḥ. So four kinds of men: ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī. Artaḥ means distressed, materially distressed; arthārthī, poor man who needs some money; jñānī and jijñāsu—these four classes of men, if they are pious, they inquire about the Absolute Truth. If they are pious.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Guest 4 (Indian man): What is the position of man...

Prabhupāda: You are poor man, what you can give, charity? Why you are thinking that you can give in charity? Therefore God says, dadāsi yat: "If you are thinking to make some charity, give it to Me. Come on." Just like Bali Mahārāja was approached by Vāmanadeva. The Supreme Lord went to Bali Mahārāja, "Bali Mahārāja, give Me some land." You see. So these are all mental concoctions. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says that "If you have got such mentality to give some charity, give it to Me. Come on." The first thing is you try to learn how to give God.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are two things. One material, one spiritual. Spiritually, India is happy, those who are actually spiritualists. But materially, India is unhappy. Spiritually, even if you still go in the interior of village, poor man, living in a cottage, he is taking bath three times and doing his professional work, a cultivator, having little food, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. They are happy actually. They have got their family, husband, wife, some children. If one lives spiritual life, he is actually happy. Materially, nobody can be happy. In your country, although there is enough facility for material enjoyment, actually they are not happy. Otherwise why in your country the hippies are coming out? They are coming from respectable, rich parents, nation, but they have given up their home, their father's opulence, mother's opulence. That I have seen practically. Practically all my students... Here, Brahmānanda, his father, at least he was a big industrialist, mother. But he did not like. He joined this movement. Similarly, Girirāja, his father is a big lawyer, rich man. But he did not like that. There are many, many students, their father's are... Śyāmasundara's father is big lawyer, rich man, businessman. He is the only son. But he did not like his father. So there are many... Even though he is not our student, still, I do not know. I have seen in Los Angeles, Beverly Hills. You know? That is a rich quarter. Very nice house. And one boy is coming, he is hippie, and riding on his car and going. Then I saw, although it is such a nice rich quarter, there are also hippies. That I could study. Why these boys are becoming hippies? And New York you know, the hippies are lying here and there in Fifth Avenue, Central Park, and they are worshiping pig. (laughs) You know that?

Banker: Yes, I know.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is not austerity. That is licentiousness.

Umāpati: Yes. It comes from a time when we admire swashbuckling and being free, so-called, in the material sense.

Prabhupāda: That is reaction. The rich man is trying to become a poor man. "Let me see what is the advantage of the poor man." That's right. Your country does not require to lie down like that. You have got enough arrangement. But it is a fashion. That's all. So fashion is not austerity. That is sense gratification. It appears like austerity, but it is sense gratification. Real austerity is not to make any sense gratification, simply to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is real austerity.

Umāpati: So if Kṛṣṇa required us to sleep on the beach, then...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: ...that would not be... if Kṛṣṇa required us to sleep on the beach, that would not be sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: No. And why Kṛṣṇa will require like that? Do you mean to say Kṛṣṇa is a madman?

Umāpati: No.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yaśomatīnandana: They said that they were simply taking chances that it might come out all right. They were not sure themselves.

Prabhupāda: That everyone is taking chance. A poor man is taking chance to become rich man. So what is the difference between the poor man taking chance and the scientist? (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: ...which into all the characteristics are described in Divine and Demoniac natures. This modern world fits into all the demoniac qualities...

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are godless. Whole modern world is godless. They don't think of God very seriously. Everyone. They have described it as "Opiate," what is that?

Karandhara: "Opium of the people."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They think, "Those who are religious, they are simply wasting their time." Therefore communist country, they are completely against religion. They cannot allow their people to waste their time. That is their philosophy. This is the condition of the world.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Yes, you see, my wife used to take care of more than hundred children in the schools, giving them fees, giving them notes, pencils and clothing and...

Prabhupāda: A little more, little more.

Dr. Patel: She was doing it, but I am not she. She was a multi-millionaire's daughter; I am a poor man's son.

Prabhupāda: But you are not poor man.

Dr. Patel: She had that painting from her young days of her father as a billionaire. But I am a extremely poor man.

Prabhupāda: But you are the husband of a millionaire's daughter.

Dr. Patel: She's dead now. She has got no... She had a grip on me when she was living. I am now a vagabond in her absence. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of you or she. I am just pointing out.

Dr. Patel: No, no, no. I will try. I have taken your, this thing to my heart. I will try to collect some fund and get some clothing, those ready-made ones.

Prabhupāda: So one day a tailors may be brought and take their measurement.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (3): By serving poor, you are serving yourself.

Prabhupāda: No, serving nobody. Now, Swami Nikhilananda of Ramakrishna Mission... Just hear, doctor. Ah. Swami Nikhilananda of Ramakrishna Mission, when I went to America, I met him. He said that "The Americans are asking that 'You take money from us for serving the poor.' But when we go to India, we simply see poor men are lying on the footpath. So what you are doing with this money?" You see? This is a plea for collection of money, "to serve the poor." What... (break) Yes. I know in America there are so many foundations. You see? And there are so many cheats also. They found a society. And the managers of the foundations, they have got plea, and they get out all the money. I have seen. Who was that? That Mr. Bogus? No, Bogart. Bogart. I used to call him "Mr. Bogus." (laughter)

Dr. Patel: Americans are very clever at using money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have made a clique with the managers of the foundation, and they present by literature all lies. The subject matter is India. "Oh, so many people are starving, so many..." In this way they take money from the managers, and it is divided amongst themselves.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That I understand.

Dr. Patel: And they really are purely running away without... They have no peace of mind.(break)

Prabhupāda: The other day one American devotee, he said, "Sir, I see..." He first came, "I see the poorest man here is happier than the richest man in my country." He said like that.

Dr. Patel: Because they have got no peace of mind.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: And every...

Prabhupāda: And that is... (break)

Dr. Patel: This, any act of competition is a sin and a violence against...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...competition even Kṛṣṇa. Krishnamurti's competition even Kṛṣṇa. You know that?

Dr. Patel: No, I didn't know.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But why you dictate?

Dr. Shah: That's a different thing.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Dr. Patel: I don't dictate!

Prabhupāda: Yes. You say that it should be given to the poor man. You say like that. (break) The spiritual food should be distributed to everyone, without any discrimination.

Dr. Shah: To everyone, without any discrimination! (break)

Prabhupāda: It is meant for spiritual understanding.

Dr. Patel: That's right. That I agree.

Prabhupāda: Prasāde sarva-duḥkhānāṁ hanir asyopajāyate. So anyone who is spiritually poor, he should be given prasādam. It doesn't matter... (break) That, that makes it clear. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu means there is no discrimination... (end)

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).

Prabhupāda: Ah. And to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, it does not require any expensive material. If you have nothing to offer, you can offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ. He will be satisfied. And performing this yajña and other, oh, you have got to collect so much ghee, so much grain, so much mantras, so many learned brāhmaṇas and this and that. You have nothing to do. Anywhere, any part of the world, universal. Any man, poor man, rich man, can offer Kṛṣṇa whatever He has got. Kṛṣṇa is satisfied.

Dr. Patel: Tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Bhaktya-upahṛtam aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ. Yes. "Because he has offered Me with faith and devotion and love, I accept it." So when Kṛṣṇa eats something from your hand, then what remains? You gain perfection. All perfection is there. If Kṛṣṇa is accepting something from your hand, "Yes, I will eat it."

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here all the... Why you are anxious to read? You be anxious to understand first of all.

Dr. Patel: I have understood.

Prabhupāda: You do not understand. That is... You fight with me. Therefore I am reading this. Yes. We are speaking on Bhagavad-gītā, not your imaginary words. That is our point. How these rascals compare with, ordinary, poor man with Nārāyaṇa?

Dr. Patel: That is wrong.

Prabhupāda: That's right. Yes.

Dr. Patel: I say so, but immediately I understood, but we want to understand more and more. You say it is not possible to understand...

Prabhupāda: No, if you immediately understand, then immediately you forget also.

Dr. Patel: No, I don't forget.

Prabhupāda: No, no, immediately understanding means immediately forget. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: It is not possible to forget. I understand immediately and never forget. For all it may not be. Shall I read further, sir?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta. That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man. He has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy. He's also thinking, and others also thinking, that "He has become happy." But actually it is distress. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants japa) (break) ...people become religious not for attaining the transcendental stage, but for material benefit, dharma, the artha. Artha means material opulence, that. They... These four things: dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). And why they want artha? To satisfy their senses. Dharma artha kāma... And when they're again baffled, they want mukti, to become one with the Supreme. These are the four different tastes of the material. All, all of them are baffling and illusory. The so-called religiosity with a view to get some material profit... That comes everywhere. Just (as) in Christianity, the religion means, "O God, give us our daily bread." Material profit, similarly, in anywhere, they go for material benefit. Therefore this kind of religion, it is also good, but it not first-class. The first-class religion is sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6), when one is awakened to the devotional service of the Lord, ahaitukī apratihatā, without any cause, and without being impeded. So ahaitukī apratihatā... That is, that stage is required. Not that "My sense gratification is not done here. Oh, let us give up this company." That is sense gratification. (laughs)

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, not puru bhag. Pura, yes, purabhaga, for welfare. By his advice... Just like Gargamuni is called for the advice, future of the child.

Indian Man (1): (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: Ah, hita-kārtṛkā(?) (break) ...vacate his chair to receive a brāhmaṇa, a purohita. Just like Sudāmā Vipra went Dvārakā. He was poor man, but he was brāhmaṇa. Immediately Kṛṣṇa left His, offered His chair. Yes. And Rukmiṇī began to fan him. So much respect. Where is that respectful person? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Girirāja: He received Gargamuni with the feeling of one who is worshiping God or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He offered him a nice sitting place and when he sat down Nanda Mahārāja offered him a warm reception."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...presence of a brāhmaṇa, of a sannyāsī, in the household, in the house of a householder, means to enlighten. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṛnām gṛhinām gṛhacet dīna-cetasām. The gṛhasthas, they are very cripple-minded. They are satisfied with the family, and they do not know that anything else to do. Therefore it is the duty of the sannyāsī and the brāhmaṇas to go to the householder's home and enlighten them spiritually. Therefore purohita. Go on. (break) ...pura. Purasara means "in the front", and hita means welfare. So one who conducts welfare of the householder. Guru-purohita. Every family must have guru and purohita for spiritual advancement. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is, means rascal. He does not see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful. If you want to see wonderful things, why don't you see the more wonderful things? But they are foolish; they are captivated with small wonderful things. That means less intelligent. Just like small children, they will be amazed by seeing small wonderful things, but his father will not be. What is the amazement, wonderful thing, Sai Baba has done? If he is creator of gold, then why he is doing business of incense? You know that? He has a big incense business exactly like us. He can create gold? Why there is incense business? (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to give to His mother some gold when there was need of money. "Mother, I got this gold. So you can utilize it." The mother would think that "We are poor men, we have no gold. Wherefrom this boy brings gold?" So he (she) was doubtful because he (she) was thinking, "My son is mad, sometimes crazy." So he (she) would go, "Is it real gold? Just see." Then. "Yes, it is real gold." "Hm, how He got it?" You see. (break) ...many yogis, they make such gold for meeting their expenditures. Yes. Still in India they know how to make gold from copper. Yes. The process is they will drink mercury at night, and in the morning they will urine on the copper coins. And then, after some hours, the copper coins taken and put into the fire, it becomes gold. And it is scientific that some molecules of mercury, if mixed with copper, it is gold. Gold is combination of mercury and copper. But the people cannot mix it. They have tried. That is called alchemist. They tried to mix it. Because they do not know the process, as soon as mercury is put into fire, it immediately goes out. You melt copper, and in hot copper, if you put mercury, it will not melt together. Immediately it will throw away. So some of the yogis, they know. They digest copper, er, mercury, and it comes in the form, urine. And then the copper is put there. There is an interaction, and then put into fire. It becomes gold.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: Yes. He has not sold any.

Prabhupāda: No, he has sold some, but still lying in the store. He published only one thousand copies. Our Nectar of Devotion, the translation of the same book, is selling like hotcakes. Yes. In the university, Temple University, they have made a textbook. And everywhere they like it, Nectar of Devotion. I think... What is our edition at the present moment? Fourth or Fifth edition. And we don't publish less than ten thousand copies. So we have to depend on Kṛṣṇa sincerely. Serve Him, everything, what is required, that will come, some way or other. That is miracle. Why should we try to cheat others, that "I can manufacture gold"? This rascal, if he can manufacture gold, then why he is doing himself business? That is simply jugglery. Even the magicians, they can do. They create so much money. But he is a poor man. Why he remains poor? And everyone thinks of us, that we have got unlimited wealth. You know that?

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well, I don't think they are restricted now.

Prabhupāda: No, it is going on. In India I know. They are selling sugar at two annas, four annas a pound, or seer, outside, and India, it is four rupees. What is this nonsense? This is going on. They want to import some war materials or something else, therefore they want export exchange. So they are sacrificing the convenience of the local people for export exchange. These things are going on. These politicians, they create an atmo... Therefore I say the head of the state, they must be clean. But they are all motivated. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. Generally politician has got a particular motive behind him. And when he cannot pull on they declare war. That Pakistan. Pakistan, since the beginning of Pakistan they could not make any economic condition very sound. But when the people are too much agitated, they declare war with India. The whole attention is... And they have been educated in such a way that India is their strongest enemy. Anything Indian, they dislike in Pakistan. So this is going on by the politicians. They are creating situation because they are not honest, they are not clean. And a clean man cannot become politician. Mr. Lloyd George said that "consistency by the politician is the qualification of an ass." There cannot be any consistency amongst the politicians. So that is the defect, that the politicians are the heads, the leaders of the society, and they are in disagreement. Everyone has got his own ideal, and the fight is going on, and the poor man in the state, they are suffering. Just like in India they partitioned, Pakistan and Hindustan. It was arranged by the leaders, Jinnah and Jawaharlal Nehru. Especially Jinnah. The people are suffering. And the Britishers made partition in such a way that they will remain continually in war because everyone wants the necessities of life. The foodstuff is in Pakistan, and the industry is in India. So the Pakistan will suffer for want of industry, and India will suffer for want of food. This is British plan for partition. They had no business to divide the country, but they wanted to do it as a parting kick, that "You want independence.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Devotee: Yeah, but they criticize us that we don't want to feed...

Prabhupāda: No, why the hippies are lying on the street or in the park? Why? You give them relief. The whole Amsterdam city is full of hippies lying on the street and park. What you are doing for them? They are not poor men. They have got enough to eat. Their parents, father, grandfather, they can give. Why they are lying? What you can do? Go and pick them up. Make them nicely living. Why don't you do that? Talking nonsense. What is their answer? Why they have become hippies? They are not... The Indians may be poverty-stricken, but they are not poverty-stricken. In England the whole British empire is there. The whole American government is there. And still, western countries, they have got resources. They have means. They are not poor. Why your sons and grandsons are lying on the street? What is their answer? They are making plan that everyone would live materially very comfortably, but why these people, in spite of possessing material facilities... (break) Yes, this is the real problem.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Perhaps to make it clear for you, one of the natural results of this system is that a man that might be considered today impoverished, as you were mentioning for example some of the problems, a poor man, by our standards, is not necessarily poor if he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. For example, in the Vedic culture, we are learning that a man is considered to be wealthy if he simply has a small patch of land and a cow and God consciousness. Because his God consciousness will lead him to be satisfied by growing his own foods, taking milk from the cow. This is wealth, according to Vedic standards.

Prabhupāda: Therefore cow is specially recommended, go-rakṣya, because very important animal to the society. If those who are meat-eaters, they can eat the hogs and dogs, they can eat. The Vedic injunction is not prohibiting them. If you actually... Actually, a human being does not require to eat meat. He has got many other substitutes. But still, if he wants to eat, let him eat the less important animals. Just like dog, hog. From the social point of view it has no utility. But why killing cows? It is delivering such a nice nutritious food, milk. Not only milk. According to Vedic system, the cow is so important, even the urine, even the stool, of cow is important.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: No, he's Spanish.

Devotee: Leonardo da Vinci.

Yogeśvara: He's Italian.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is said that he was very poor man. So he painted in a fruitshop grapes.

Devotees: Cezanne.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So the crows came to pick up the grapes, and the king was passing, he picked up, "Oh, who is that artist?" He became rich man in association. No, I have seen in that hall. So first-class picture. I have never seen such nice picture. Exactly life. (break)

Yogeśvara: ...the book glorifying the Russian ideals, he is thrown out of the country.

Prabhupāda: Just see. It is a country... People are not bad. I have seen. They are very nice. The government, the rascals, a few men, who are controlling the government, they are all rogues and thieves. The same thing in India. Everywhere mass population, they are innocent. These rascals made them..., misleading. In Russia I have seen. The mass people, they are very nice. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are innocent. In India also. The Pakistan happened due to these politicians. The Hindus, Muslims, they are innocent. They don't fight. These politicians engaged them to fight artificially for their political ambition. The wars also declared nowadays, on account of the rascal politicians. The people do not want it. (break) ...to the Indian railway strike, have you got any news?

Bhagavān: It ceased the other day.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. But they show. They make a collection, that "We are doing such nice work." The Vivekananda also imitated like that and could not do anything. It is not possible. Swami Nikhilananda said... He belongs to the Vivekananda group. Because they raise funds from America, huge funds, that "We shall feeding the poor in India." And they eat meat and big, big become fat, these rascals. So the Americans asked them that "You are taking away our money somewhere to feed the poor. But when we go to India, two sides we see all poor men are lying on the street. What you have done?" So this is a slogan. They cannot do anything. Thinking of poor... Now, those who have accepted voluntarily povertyism, the hippies, what you are doing for them? Why don't you make arrangement for their gentlemanly living? They are not poverty-stricken. Why they are living like wretches, lying on the street, no program for eating, no for sleeping, no for bodily comfort, just like animals? What you have done for them?

Yogeśvara: Because the real problem is not poverty. That they haven't understood.

Prabhupāda: This is karma. If you have bad karma, then you must suffer by the laws of nature. You may be a rich man's son or king's son.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Guest (1): So sacrifice are we self, or ourself. That means sacrifice to the Lord.

Prabhupāda: Sacrifice, there are different description of sacrifice. Just like one of the sacrifice is this chanting of the holy name of God. Yes. There are other sacrifices, offering in the fire, butter, grains. That is also sacrifice. But in this age, these things are almost not available. Therefore chant the holy name. This sacrifice is recommended. It does not cost anything. Simply God has given you the tongue, and you chant. Any poor man can do it. (pause) (break) ...excursion? No? (Chants japa softly) Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.

Haṁsadūta: Cultured excursion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Weekly and planned.

Guest (2) (French man): There is regularly pūjā in your community?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here also, there is temple. There is regular pūjā, six times.

Guest (2): Offering light...

Prabhupāda: Light, food, everything. Dress, bathing, so many things. If you receive me, you must give me something eatable. Simply light, how can I be satisfied? (laughter) If you give me simply light and no food then how can I be satisfied? Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me this food." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad ahaṁ aṣnāmi (BG 9.26). "I will eat."

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa: Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So pure devotional service is flame. All other things are smoke. You must get the flame. Otherwise, your business will not get done. So naturally we fan when there is smoke, "Phat, phat, phat." As soon as flame comes, there is no smoke. So again fan it. Let the flame come. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise be satisfied with the smoke. You are cooking with smoke for three hundred years. (laughter) There is a very humorous story that one man... He was a yogi. So he approached. It is not story, it is fact. Approached one big man that... As people are very inquisitive to see some yogic magic, so the rich man asked the yogi, "What you have learned about yogic perfection?" "No, I can in the severe winter season, I can dip myself in the water up to this and practice yoga." "So, how long can you remain? At night?" "Yes. No, I can remain the whole night or as long as you..." "All right, if you remain within severe cold, within water, overnight, then I shall give you such and such presentation." So he agreed, and he did it. And in the morning, when the man came, so he said, "Oh, you are successful." Then he did not... Either he had no money or he did not want to give. So he had his one advisor, "So what shall I do?" "No, no sir, you cannot give money." "Why?" "Now, there was heat." "So how there was heat?" You know, in India they give ākāśa-pradīpa? During Kārttika month they... This is our Vaiṣṇava principle, I think. The lamp is there on the head of the roof. On the roof there is a bamboo, and in the top of the bamboo there is light. So this man was in the lake. And his advisor said, "You have seen that the lamp was there, and heat was coming." (laughing) That lamp was three miles away and still, he advised, "Yes, there was heat. Therefore he could tolerate." So what can be said? He is poor man. So there was another servant of that big man. So he appealed to him that "See, I took so much trouble and he did not pay me anything." "So don't worry. I shall see that you are paid." What is that? Some presentation?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: Well, that I can say from the age, say, four or five years.

Reporter: At the age of four or five years?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Female Reporter: Swami, is there a chance that all your followers can realize the highest truth?

Prabhupāda: They have already done. They have already done. Otherwise, I am Indian, I am poor man. Why they are after me? You Americans, you are rich men. So I have not bribed them. These young boys, they are educated, qualified. Why they are after me unless they have realized?

Reporter: Swamiji, I have one other question for you, please. By definition, it seems to me anyway, and I think to other observers, and sympathetic observers at that, that you have asked your spiritual children to leave the outer world in the West and to go deep within the heart of ISKCON, within your heart and the heart of the Supreme, to accomplish what you've set as their goal. What about outer service to humanity in this incarnation?

Prabhupāda: This is the best humanity's service. They were all fools and rascals and we educated them for spiritual understanding. The material... If I think "I am this body," then I am no better than cat and dog. That is going on. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." Only this bodily relationship. But suppose you have come to me, can I ask you whether you are body or something else?

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Brahmānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: You have seen?

Śrutakīrti: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I've seen pictures.

Prabhupāda: Very poor men, still, they gather, sixty lakhs, without any advertisement.

Brahmānanda: Here you have to advertise to get six hundred.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Or six.

Prabhupāda: And it was so nice to live there, spiritual atmosphere, on the bank of the Ganges and Yamunā. Immediately you go, you become spiritualized. Vṛndāvana is also like that. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, bhārata-bhūmite janma haila, manuṣya-janma haila. To get the human form of life born in India, that is a special prerogative. Bhārata-bhumite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). He is fifty percent-prepared by birth.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Where is the actual attempt to give everyone sufficient food? Where is that attempt? And here in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) if you want to keep happy the animals and the men, then produce food grain. Who is doing that? They simply passing resolution and raising funds and then eating, themself, at the cost of others. And therefore the price is increasing. One who has got money, he can pay more price, artificial. I am poor man. I have no money. You have got money. You purchase before me. Then I starve. But if there is sufficient supply of food grain, then this thing will not happen. You can distribute without any price. That was being done in India. Educated man means unemployment, is it not? So-called education means creating unemployment. They will go with application, "Give me some clerical post, some this post, that post, that post." This is education.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Still, those who live, they depend on mother.

Guest: Actual, the serpent because serpent government, he says.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Serpent mother also, Kali-yuga. (break) ...they are keeping, but it is not possible to give them food by purchasing. They are taking food from the street. Similarly, the poor man keep a cow. It is not possible to purchase food for the cows. So maintain in this way, so, by natural food. And in Germany I have seen. They are not given extra food. They are living by pasturing ground. That should be arranged. They should get food from the ground, not that we have to purchase food for them. Then you cannot maintain.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We just recently went to Govardhana Hill. Several years ago the grass at Govardhana Hill was very nice and long and green. This year, though, it didn't seem so green. It was very brown and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, from Kṛṣṇa's time the Govardhana grass was being supplied to the cows. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommended, "Better worship Govardhana Hill. Why you are going to Indra?"

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Jayadharma: Even when a man commits first-degree murder he only gets ten years' jail. There are cases of people committing cold-blooded murder and only getting ten years' jail. And then after that, getting out again and doing the same thing.

Paramahaṁsa: They think that "This poor man was psychologically disturbed and killed someone." So they give him ten years in jail, then they say, "Now he is rehabilitated, he has been very nice, and in the prison he was acting very nicely, so we want him to be happy. So we'll let him out on parole as long as he's good." Then they let him out.

Amogha: That's why we take your books to the prisons. Sometimes we have a contest to see who can distribute the most books in three days. When they were deciding who would go with Madhudviṣa Swami to India, they had a contest to see who could distribute the most books and get the most laxmī at the same time. So they would collect much laxmī, then they would go out and give away books to the prisons and jails and hospitals. Cases of books. They put them in the libraries too. They agreed; otherwise they didn't get. They would ask them if they would use it, and they said yes. So in three days they distributed very, very many books.

Prabhupāda: Free?

Amogha: Yes. First they collected the money elsewhere, then they gave it away to the hospitals and prisons. One boy he collected in one day, he won the contest, he collected seven hundred and fifty dollars in one day. Australian dollars. That's almost one thousand U.S. dollars. I don't remember how many books, very, very many books he gave away also. Big books, hardbound books, Kṛṣṇa books, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: So, you are trying to serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That is very good. These rascals are in ignorance and you are trying to enlighten them. Very good service. (break) After reading a book does anybody come and ask questions? Do they receive regularly letters and enquiries?

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Why is it that some people, when they hear about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they take it, and some do not. And still, after that, some of those who take it, they stay, and some who take it take it for some time and then they fail?

Prabhupāda: That is fortunate and unfortunate. Just like one inherits father's property. Many millions of dollars, and he has become a poor man by his misusing the money. Like that. He is unfortunate. He got the money, but he could not utilize it.

Jayadharma: Does fortune mean it's the mercy of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy is always there. It is your misuse of free will. You are given the opportunity—that is fortune. But you do not accept the fortune. That is your misfortune. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛita. Lord Caitanya said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). Kono—some fortunate man can accept it. Because mostly they are unfortunate. Just see, throughout the whole of Europe and America we are making propaganda. How many students have come? A very insignificant number, although they have come. They are fortunate.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: I wish it were as simple as that for the majority of people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone. Even the child can take part. Even the child, woman, educated, noneducated, rich man, poor man, worker—everyone can sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So why don't you accept this formula?

Justin Murphy: How do you know that I haven't?

Prabhupāda: There is no check.

Justin Murphy: But how about the people living next door or the people...?

Prabhupāda: No, they can form different groups. You can form your group. Suppose there is hundred gentlemen in this neighborhood. We can sit down. If he has no time, they can sit down with family members. Everyone has got family. Everyone has got his wife, children or somebody else, servant. Sit down for half an hour and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty?

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: No, they go, they park their cars here and they walk into town.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Why?

Madhudviṣa: They don't like to pay money for parking space. They park out here and walk into their different office buildings. (break)

Prabhupāda: It is said (Bengali). A villager, very poor man, he says, "I am very poor man. I live on eating the grasshoppers."

Madhudviṣa: Grasshoppers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "I have no money. But when I go to pass stool, I ride on a horse." They cannot pay parking fare, but still they keep a carriage. (laughs) (Bengali). Because the villagers go to the field for passing stool, so this gariba man, this poor man, goes on a horse. Leaves can be also utilized as fire, but they do not know that. In India they collect, poor man, and use as fuel, they cook food. All this dry twigs and this, that can be used as fuel, at the same time the ground will be cleansed.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: And what they will create, chaos? They have no strength.

Siddha-svarūpa: Well, they burn their mattresses and they...

Prabhupāda: One slap is sufficient. (break) ...first-class man.

Upendra: That is if they have money, Prabhupāda. The poor man he suffers more.

Prabhupāda: Anardhena naya-rahitam.. This is stated in Bhāgavatam: "If you have no money, then you won't get justice." You can purchase justice. This is Kali-yuga. Anardhena naya-rahitam. (break) What people mean by religion? (break) ...not serious. Nobody is serious about religion. So what do they think about religion?

Bali-mardana: They think it is a nice thing so that the people will work hard and not create any trouble. (break)

Upendra: ...Protestant work ethic. Protestant work ethics. The western culture has developed because of that work ethic based on, "You work hard and go to church." "Work hard and believe in God," this is the advancement, why western culture is..., is one theory why it's...

Prabhupāda: Why shall I believe in God? What is the benefit? Work hard... Now, of course, I shall work hard; I will get money. That's all right. Why shall I believe in God?

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Yadubara: Actually, we're more active than ever before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are rich man's son, Kṛṣṇa's son. Why shall I work? That is the nature. A rich man's son never works. He enjoys. We are dancing and taking nice prasādam. Why shall I work? What do you think? Poor man will work. Rich man, why they will work? He will enjoy. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor of all planets, and we are servants of Kṛṣṇa, a rich man's servant. Why shall I work so hard? The ass will work hard, not a human being. And that is the instruction of Rsabhādeva. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human life is not meant for working so hard simply for food and sex enjoyment. That is the business of the hogs. The hogs do like that. They work day and night to find out some stool, and as soon as a little strength, he enjoys sex without discrimination, mother, sister, anybody. Is that life? Tell them, "You are working like hogs, and we are living like human being. That is the difference." If somebody does not work like hog, does it mean he is escaping? (laughter) Just see. And the hog is asking to work like hog. Why human being will accept this proposal? Marshall theory. I was student of economics. He says the human nature is, unless he has got some obligation he will not work. That is the beginning of economics. If one has got sufficient to eat, he will not work. When he is obliged to work for some reason, he works hard. That is the economic theory. So nature is... It is not escaping. If I have got sufficient to eat, why shall I work? What is the answer? This is not escaping, it is comfortable life, not to work and get everything, all necessities. That is comfort. And working hard getting the necessities, that is for the hogs and dogs, not for human being.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Viṣṇujana: Kṛṣṇa is so opulent, why did He appear in the form of Lord Caitanya in such a poor village atmosphere?

Prabhupāda: That is His opulence. Here the material man, if he is rich man, he cannot become a poor man. That means he is lacking that opulence. (break) ...opulence. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. He can become the bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest. That is opulence. You cannot manufacture a mosquito. You can manufacture a 747, but manufacture a mosquito, then we shall know your science. (laughter) ...the same machine. Otherwise how it is flying? (break) ...seen, so imperfect you are, that what are the machine there? And you are proud of seeing, nonsense. See the machine, where it is there, how the mosquito is flying.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And one mosquito can produce many mosquitos.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there complete.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yuddhe cāpalāyanam. A kṣatriya should be so trained up, when there is fight, he must come out, forward. Not that he will sit down in his secluded place and poor man will fight. No. He should come forward as leader, "Come on." That is kṣatriya quality, yuddhe cāpalāyanam. Formerly there was fight, but the leaders, they would come face to face first of all. And if the leader, one of the leader is killed-yuddha means one party must be vanquished, fight—then the war is finished. The main person, chief person is now killed, so there is no more war. So yuddhe cāpalāyanam. Those who are taking part in administration, in politics, they must be of this quality, very chivalrous, brave. They have to learn all these quality. Just like the first-class men, they are being trained up in self-controlling, controlling the mind, controlling the senses. And these second-class men, they should be trained up how to fight. Because fight will there be. We do not place this bogus idea that there will be no fight. No. Then fight will be there so long the human society is there. But what for one should fight? That training should be there. Not unnecessarily. In the history of India we find there were two fights: one with Rāvaṇa and another the Kurukṣetra fight. (break) Not at the whims of the leaders. He has got some idea and declare war and engage people. He is safe, now the people are dying. Therefore these leaders, this administration, they require to be guided by the first-class men. So everything will be possible, provided our, this heart is cleansed.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is due to bad leadership. Otherwise, Indian mass of people, they are fully conscious of God and they try to follow the laws of God, the mass of people. Here even the big, big professor, they do not believe in God, they do not believe in next life. But India, even the poorest man, he knows that "There is God. There is next life. If I commit sinful life I will suffer. If I live piously, then I shall enjoy." Even the low-grade society, social man, he believes it. Still if there is some disagreement, the village people go to the temple for settlement, and the opposite parties will hesitate to speak lies before the temple, still. So in that respect India is still 80 percent religious, 80 percent religious. That is the special privilege of taking birth in India. That is a fact.

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra,

janma sārthaka kari kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Anyone who has taken birth in India, his business is to make his life perfect and distribute the knowledge all over the world.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Too much wealthy condition is a block. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. If one is very materially opulent, he forgets God. Therefore, to be too much materially rich is a disqualification for understanding God. Although there is no more impediment, that "Only the poor man will understand God and rich man will not understand," it is not that. But generally, if one is extraordinarily rich or his one aim is only to acquire money, it is difficult for him to understand God. Bhogaiśvarya... Find out this verse,

bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ

tayāpahṛta-cetasām

vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ

samādhau na vidhīyate

(BG 2.44)

Another place, I think in the Bible, "God is available for the humble and meek"? What is that? Is there such statement? So the rich person is neither humble nor meek. He is always proud and puffed up unnecessarily. So it is very difficult for...

Jayatīrtha: Christ says that "The meek shall inherit the earth."

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Would you say that it should be done in an area of affluence or an area of poverty to begin with?

Prabhupāda: No, we have no distinction, such, but a place which is easily available for all kinds of men, that is very nice. There is no such condition that the only poor man will take benefit and the rich man, they do not require. Everyone requires. Do you think that the criminality is only in the poorer section?

Lt. Mozee: Oh, no.

Prabhupāda: Then? Everyone is a criminal, either he is a poor man or rich man. So we should not make such distinction, that only it is meant for the poor man.

Lt. Mozee: No, the distinction I was attempting to draw was would there be more benefit, would there be more of an influence, or would there be more of a strengthening if it were in an area of affluence rather than an area of poverty or vice versa?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, that's... Our treatment is for the diseased person. So diseased person does not make any distinction of poor man and rich man. Rich man is also diseased, and poor man is also diseased, and everyone should be admitted in the hospital. So hospital should be in such a place where the poor man and rich man, both of them can come because all of them are diseased. So when one comes to the hospital there is no such thing as a poor man's hospital or rich man's. Hospital is hospital. And everyone being diseased, everyone should take advantage. But the difficulty is, as we are quoting the passage, that rich man, he thinks that he is not diseased. Although he is diseased number one, but he thinks that he is not diseased. That is the difficulty of the rich man. But we are thinking everyone is diseased. And you know better than me being police. There are criminality amongst rich men and poor men alike.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So our process is to cleanse the heart, not the opulence or poverty. No, that is not our... To cleanse the heart. If the poor man is cleansed in his heart he will not touch anybody's property. I heard that King, Emperor Edward VII, his habit was to steal.

Lt. Mozee: Yes, he was a kleptomaniac. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: And I have known many instances. In Calcutta one very rich man's son in the evening he would take his bath and dress nicely, and he would go to the Howrah station and beg, cheat men: "I have lost my purse. Will you kindly help me?" And any gentleman: "He has lost..." And he will go to the restaurant and eat and go home. That was his habit. He was a very rich man, but his habit was this. So we have to change the habit by changing the heart. You know very well. Many thieves, they have committed many times theft and put into the jail. So he knows that "If I commit theft, I will go to the jail." He has practically seen it, and he knows it. Still, he steals. Why? Because heart is unclean. So this process will cleanse the heart. Unless he cleans the heart, you cannot stop criminality simply by laws. Laws are already known. The professional thief, he knows the law. The professional murderer, he knows the law. But still, he commits because heart is unclean. And our process, to cleanse the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), it is Sanskrit, "Cleansing the heart." Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam, "Then all the troubles of this material world will be solved."

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized. Therefore this is the only institution which can teach how to know God and how to love Him. Two business. There is no third business. It is not our business to ask God to give us our necessities. We know God gives necessities to everyone, even one who has no religion. Just like cats and dogs. They have no religion. They do not know what is religion. But still, the cats and dogs are supplied with necessities of life. So why we should bother Kṛṣṇa, asking Him, "Give us our daily bread"? He is supplying already. Our business is how to love Him. That is religion. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: "That is first-class religion which teaches how to love God." And that love—not for any material motive: "God, You give me this. Then I will love." No. Ahaitukī. Love means without any personal profit. If I love God for some profit that is business. That is not love. Ahaituky apratihatā. And such love of God cannot be checked by any material cause. In any condition, one can learn how to love God. It is not conditional, that "I am poor man. How shall I love God? I have got so many things to do." No, it is not like that. Poor, rich or young or old, black or white, there is no impediment. If one wants to love God, he can love God.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, right. History.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nature's arrangement (chuckles) that you all die. That is nature's arrangement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When someone gets some power he wants to try it out. Just like there was that demon. Lord Śiva gave him power: whoever head he touched, the head would fall off.

Prabhupāda: Just like in your country there are so many cars so that a poor man like me has car always, not an inch move on leg. So because there is so many. There are so many cars. So there are so many weapons now. That must be used. That is a natural sequence. They must use it.

Bahulāśva: That is why they have wars, just so they can use up the weapons.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Paramahaṁsa: The only difficulty is that if one person uses the atomic weapon, that means entire, it would be entire waste of mankind. So everyone's afraid of using the ultimate.

Prabhupāda: Well, anyway, they must be used. There is no doubt about it. Therefore we can say there will be war. It is no astrology. It is natural conclusion.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Mr. Surface: I'm not quite sure what that means precisely.

Prabhupāda: Just like this table belongs to somebody else. How can I possess it? And if the table belongs to somebody else, how can I renounce it? Renouncing means if I possess something. But if you have nothing to possess, where is the question of renouncing? And if the things belongs to somebody else, how can I possess it? This is my proposal. You cannot possess other things. And then you will be thief. If I possess other's possession, then I am thief. And if I renounce, then I am false renouncer, but I did not possess anything. So where is the question of possession and renouncing come? But the whole world is struggling. Some group is struggling for possessing, which is called economic development, and some group is trying to renounce it. Just like a rich man's son. Without any, his labor, he possesses the father's immense property. He wants to renounce it. And the poor man is trying to possess it. These two classes of men are working. One is trying to possess, and the other is trying to renounce. There is no other third group.

Ṛṣi-kumāra: What about those who are just possessing enough to maintain their bodies?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Body is maintained by the birds and beasts. The worms, ants, they also maintaining body, but they do not possess anything. So therefore, natural law is that without possessing, you can maintain yourself.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Guest: Do you think that this hinders with their development?

Prabhupāda: No. Spirit soul is the same thing either in wealthy man or poor man. The spirit soul is not different. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

If Yogananda thinks like that—"Only rich man is able to practice yoga"—that is wrong. A poor man can also practice yoga. Because yoga means connecting, linking up with the Supreme. So as spirit soul, everyone is fit to connect himself with the Supreme. That is the statement in the Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class self-realization, when one tries to connect himself with the Supreme. And the Supreme can be connected by anyone. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). According to Vedic philosophy, one becomes poor on account of his sinful activities. So pāpa-yoni... So although he has taken birth in a degraded family or poor family, spiritually he is pure. Simply one has to revive his spiritual consciousness. And that cannot be checked by any material condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. Spiritual self-realization cannot be checked by any material condition. So why? Rather, opulent condition is not favorable for practicing yoga. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Those who are too much attached to material enjoyment, they cannot practice yoga.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Indian man (5): Continues delusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has imposed death, that "You may make your plan as free man, but you'll not be allowed to stay. I'll kick you out." These poor men, they did not think of it, that "I am making so nice plan, but at any moment I'll be kicked out. So where is my freedom?" Dull brain does not think of it. A prisoner, if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? A prisoner, in prison, and if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? So that they do not think. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has grouped them: mūḍha, these rascals, mūḍha. They conduct freedom movement. Just like in our country also, before this British Empire or this Mohammedan Empire there was no knowledge about this freedom. Indian people never thought of freedom. They know that "We are not free. Where is the question of freedom?" These things have come from the foreign countries, freedom movement. What is freedom? Where are you free? You are completely under the laws of nature. Where is your freedom? So they were thinking of greater freedom, to get out of the clutches of the laws of nature. That is real freedom. What is this freedom? From frying pan to the fire? (chuckles) Now we have freedom means from frying pan to the fire. Formerly there was one viceroy. Now in each state three dozen viceroys, and you have to maintain that. So many legislators, so many secretaries, so many ministers. All, they are sucking our poor blood. That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you approach them for some grievances, "All right, give me application," and, after six months, "No." So we are maintaining for this purpose? Yes. "I say no." That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...ing of freedom, but we have no freedom even to stay in this body.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: It is the foundation.

Prof. Olivier: It's the foundation. But we know so little about the foundation. When the rich man in the Bible asked the Lord to send this poor man down to warn his brothers, the Lord said they've had all the prophets all the years and they haven't listened. Any new evidence they will not accept either. I think that we have enough evidences around us. We need not seek more evidences, except I believe, through more direct contact with the workings of the holy spirit itself, which I think is available. But again, which I agree with you, I don't think we have exploited enough. You could use that word advisedly. Because the spirit is there. "It bloweth where it listeth." It is for us to get attuned to that spirit. And now the point is, that we are concerned with: Who is going to do this? There has just been written a book in England, which I haven't read, and I hope to order it, but I've only seen the advertisement, namely, The Biology of God, which takes into consideration the points that you have raised here. Of course, there are a lot of objections to this book, in principle. You know—how can a man try to biologize God, to give Him a physical, scientific being in terms of modern life? But I think in the last book in the Old Testament, Malachi, there is a, when the Lord was complaining about all these people who bring blind animals as a sacrifice or lame animals or weak animals... The poorest in their flock they bring as sacrifices to the Lord. And He said, "It's not sacrifices that I want at all, if you bring this kind. It's obedience. It's truth. It's only truth that brings knowledge. It's truth that I want." But then He goes on to say you must... This is the challenge that you were referring to: how do we open more windows from God or from the spirit of God onto this present world today? Of course, the good Lord is still God. And He uses... (break)

Professor: I include the transmigration of souls and I include everything else, religion and the lot. But when I speak about science in the English language sense, science in this sense, then I have a problem.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: It seems unless there is some monarch who is ruling over the whole world, one personality...

Prabhupāda: No, not... Yes, whole world. He must be rājarṣi, just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, representative of Kṛṣṇa. He can divide to small kings, "Now you look after such tract of land," and he divides. In this way there will be peace. No tax. If you are unable to produce anything, then no tax. Why should you levy tax from the poor man?

Harikeśa: What about those people who don't want to work? They are lazy.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: What about lazy people?

Prabhupāda: Let them become śūdra. Let them become servant. After all, unless he works, he cannot get his food. So let him become servant. He has to work to get food. No property. He should not be given any property. If you work, you can get food. Just like animal.

Harikeśa: How in the beginning is it decided that somebody is working and he should be given or not given?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why? This is the country possessing gold mine, and why they are...? And you said that it is difficult to become poor here.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You have to try hard to become poor man here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And still there is suicide. Why? Every man is rich man, and why he is committing suicide? Hm? Can you reply?

Devotee (1): They lack central happiness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no happiness. (pause) Nobody can remain lazy, because he will be hungry. So how he will remain lazy? He'll have to go somewhere, begging food, and he'll say, "First of all work. Then get your food." He'll work. So there is no question of remaining lazy. Just like the hippies. They do not work, but when they do not get food from anywhere, they go and work. Is it not? So he will be obliged to work.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is the incentive, then.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: That seems to be the root cause of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Government is taking labor from you. You ask, "If you pay me three hundred dollars, then I shall work." "All right, I shall give you. Work." Then what is that three hundred? I print and pay you, and you rascal, you accept it, three hundred dollars. What is that three hundred dollars for government? Printing press. And you are so rascal, "Yes, I have got now three hundred dollars." This is going on. This is artificial inflation. Why there is inflation? Now you have got three hundred dollars without any hard labor. And when you go to purchase—I haven't got three hundred dollars; you have got—"All right, I shall pay this price." So price is increased because the seller will see: "Who pays me large price?" So you have got unnecessary money. You offer him large price. So I am poor man; I could not purchase. This is going on.

Harikeśa: There was once a few plots exposed, how some governments were ruined because foreign governments were printing up money just like their money, and shipping it in.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. I have seen it. I have seen it during last wartime. One Chinese man was coming to one of my friends, my business friend. So he would give, immediately coming, a bunch of notes, maybe ten thousand.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: When we go from Calcutta to Māyāpur, simply garden. All banana trees, all coconut trees, mango trees, nice green field. But they cannot maintain. Formerly they were maintaining. All gentlemen used to live within the village, they used to take care. Now all gentlemen, they have left. They have gone to the city. Only poor men are there. They cannot maintain.

Brahmānanda: We stopped one time at the home of that minister. He had his home on that road with big gardens.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Tarun.

Brahmānanda: Tarun Kanti Ghosh. Lush gardens, big lake. That was the Bengal system. Big, big lakes, garden. Unless respectable rich men live in the village... Just like this. This is a nice garden because government is maintaining. So unless there are rich men, who will maintain? Poor men cannot maintain. It is cloudy today. But in..., climate is nice, very pleasant.

Jñāna: From day to day it is changing.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jñāna: From day to day it is changing. Even this afternoon it may be very clear.

Prabhupāda: This city park is very big.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...ly regret is that these rascals are going as scientists and big men. Simply talk. They cannot create. It is very simple thing. Put some chemicals together and if you know the chemicals, then why don't you put it? And incubator put, then you don't require to kill so many chicken. (break)

Alanath: In Sweden when you go on the street and you preach, "Everybody must suffer here," they don't believe because everybody got an apartment. They have never seen a poor man or a starving cow.

Prahupada: But he is himself a poor man.

Alanath: In Sweden...

Prabhupāda: But he has no knowledge to understand it. Why he is falling down from the skyscraper and killing himself? Why? A poor man commits suicide. So if he is committing suicide he is a poor man. He is a poor man. He falsely thinking that he is rich man.

Alanath: We're printing now a book there with all the talks according to the scientists and according to the Christian philosophy what was lately in the Back to Godheads in America.

Prabhupāda: Don't write anything nonsense. It must be very solid. Otherwise, you'll be laughing stock. What you'll say, it must...

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: Consider a rich man. A rich man can sleep, a poor man must work.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hṛdayānanda: They're always making agitation to reduce what they call the work week. Formerly they were working so many hours per week, now they want to reduce it down to forty, thirty, twenty hours per week.

Prabhupāda: So why they're inventing machine? Machine means no work.

Hṛdayānanda: They think this is progress, everyone can lie down and the machines will work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, machine, inventing machine means one machine can work for fifty men. The banks are using this, what is that, computer?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, everyone is using computers.

Prabhupāda: To save money. Machine means unemployment for many. Tractor, they're using, they're unemployment for bulls and plowmen and then they, bulls have to be killed. This is going on. Unemployment, then kill them. Vietnam, send all the men to fight and kill them. As soon as there is overpopulation, they declare war so that people may be killed.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: "Might be something," that is your sinful activities. That "something" is some sinful activity.

Reporter (1): Now a poor man suffers of hunger. This is not sin if he doesn't get proper food or anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. But how you can help? You cannot help. Just like a prisoner in the, suffering in the prison house, you cannot help him.

Reporter (1): I may suffer because I have cancer...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all you try to understand.

Reporter (1): But cancer is not a sin, you know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is sin. Disease means sin. Unless you commit sinful life, there is no question of suffering.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Preaching engagement is unlimited.

Prabhupāda: In the material world the poor man thinks, "Oh, this gentleman has got such big, big house. If I could have one." Eh? And the spiritual world, without desiring there are so many big, big house we have got.

Guru dāsa: Everyone can ride in the airplane in the spiritual world because everything is a pleasure trip for Kṛṣṇa. You've written in a purport in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that in the Vaikuṇṭha planets everyone can ride in the airplanes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is. (break) They say that when they're combined, there will be life, but the way of analysis we suggest is not complete?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The fact remains that even if they have a completely combined body, say a dead body, they still can't bring life back to it.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Meeting with Bankers -- April 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: Prabhupāda, did you want to tell another story?

Indian (1): But I had only two. I won't be able to...

Prabhupāda: (laughter) The story is that one poor man was informed by his friend that "Money draws money." That's a fact. If you have got money, you can draw money. So he went to the bank, and the cashier was counting huge amount of money, and he threw his coin on the cash..., (laughs) and he was waiting: "When the whole money will come to me?" Then the cashier saw this man is standing: "What is the...? Why you are standing?" "Sir, I heard that money draws money, so I had one coin. I have dropped with your money. I am waiting when it will come to me." So he said, "No, no. The fact is that, money draws.... Now my money has drawn your money." (laughter) So.... (Hindi)

Indian (1): Perhaps it is in the Bible that "Those who have shall be given more. Those who have not shall be taken of what they have already." I don't whether it's right or not, but more money draws the lesser money.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Abhirāma: I have seen in Miami Beach that one man was found dead in his apartment, and he was living poverty-stricken. His whole place was full of rats and cockroaches. When they investigated his file they found that he had eight million dollars in the bank and in stocks. But all of his friends said he couldn't spend one penny his whole life, because he was too cheap. So even though he was a rich man, actually he was a poor man.

Dr. Patel: But, sir, there are some beggars here in Bombay who have got one and two lakh rupees. You have read the railway(?) story about couple of beggars. They rounded up, and they had money.

Prabhupāda: No, I am also a beggar. I am also beggar.

Dr. Patel: That is not.... You are a rich beggar.

Prabhupāda: Millions of dollars.

Dr. Patel: Sannyāsīs don't touch money.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I don't touch money. They pass check. (laughter) I simply sign check. All these accounts in Bombay, they are being managed by them. I do not touch even. Lakhs and lakhs of rupees they are spending.

Dr. Patel: Begging is prohibited, so they rounded up the beggars sometime back.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I tell him this way. Just give books. Transcendental fraud, that we give, say, fifty rupees' worth book, and we draw 2222. Buddhir yasya balaṁ tasya nirbuddhes tu balaṁ kutaḥ.(?)Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. You know that story? Eh? You know that story, buddhir yasya balaṁ tasya?

Dr. Patel: "The man who has got the buddhi is a strong man."

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...misleader. But he himself has no character. So here it is open secret, to keep a beautiful girl as secretary, everywhere in Europe and America. So where is purity? Purity? Marriage is a taboo, and keep secretary is very good job. And you can get secretary even free of charge. Rather, she will pay. So this is going on. In Vedic civilization marriage is one of the important function of life. As death is important function, birth is important function, similarly, marriage is also important function. Janma-mṛtyu-vivāha. So in this age everywhere, not only.... The marriage is now farce. This is the symptom of Kali-yuga. There will be no more marriage. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Even there is marriage, there will be simply an agreement. That is happening, and it was written five thousand years ago. Svīkāra eva. Svīkāra means by agreement, signing agreement. No marriage function. Otherwise marriage is a.... According to Vedic system, if one has got some money, he will spend the money in three functions. When the child is born, very gorgeously he will spend money, give in charity. Always in the Bhāg... Nanda Mahārāja is giving in charity cows and money, and Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja is giving. Kṛṣṇa, as family man, He was giving in charity. So when the child is born, the horoscope is made, and to make the child happy, blessings of saintly persons, brāhmaṇas, they are given. Ordinary men also sumptuously fed. So bhūribhiḥ.(?) Everyone gives some blessings so that the child is.... Then marriage. During marriage time.... You have seen Kṛṣṇa's mother's marriage? That was the system. The father gives to his heart content, as much as possible, to the daughter. The Kṛṣṇa's mother was royal prince, so her father gave so many elephants, so many horses, so many chariots. That was the system. (break) This śrāddha ceremony. That is also, feeding the learned brāhmaṇas, saintly person, poor man, relative. Lavishly they spend money during three occasions: birth, death, and marriage. During birth the father spends; the marriage, father spends; and death, the son spends. This is the system. So social reformation, but there is no idea how the society will be happy. There is no idea. They are trying to remove this intoxication, LSD, but do not see the cause why LSD has come. They do not try to stop that cause. When the cause is effective, then they are disturbed with the effect. This is the defect. Neither they'll take advice. So how they'll be able to.... Big, big officer, drawing high salary, that's all. There is no effect. Neither there can be any effect. It is not possible. They do not know. Neither they want it. So we are advocating, "Remove these four sinful activities," so nobody will agree. "Illicit sex is our life, to keep a friend, to keep a secretary." And we are advising, "No illicit sex." Then where is life? That's all.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That means the little children's policy. Children, just like imagining so many things, "I shall do that. I shall do." The potter's imagination. You know that? Potter's imagination? You do not know the story? One potter is selling earthen pots, and he is saying that "Now, these two paisā, it has cost me one paisā. I shall make one paisā profit. Then I can make such profit. I shall invest again. I shall make another profit, another profit. In this way I shall become millionaire. Then I shall marry, and my wife shall be very obedient. And if (s)he does not become obedient, I shall give him a kick like this." And he, what was.... One pot was there. He kicked that pot and broke. (laughter) It broke. "Oh, again I am poor man." So this is going on, imagination. Imagination.... "I shall become so great that I shall kick Kṛṣṇa's law," and whatever pot he had-broken. That's all. Rascals, simply rascals. If anyone thinks like that, that "I shall surpass the laws of nature," then he's madman. He's madman. So what is the use of dealing with madmen? And as soon as you challenge them that "Show us that you have surpassed the laws of nature," "Yes, we are trying. In future we shall do." That's all. This is their reply. So it is better to avoid such men. But if you peacefully you can introduce, "All right, you will do. You are wonderful men, so kindly if you read some pages of this, it is not very costly. You can keep. At leisure hour you can read," in this way, imploring, then they will be benefited. That much we can do to any rascal. He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt caitanya-candra-caraṇe: "Oh, you are so nice. Therefore I am flattering you. I humbly obeisance. Kindly hear one thing. Keep some books. It is not very costly." Bas. This much you can do.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they prefer to read about all the ecstatic symptoms on Caitanya Mahāprabhu's body

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That.... Be, first of all bona fide. That is good ambition. But how this good ambition can fulfill when you are a potter, poor man? Actually be rich, and then kick your wife. And without being rich, if you think all this nonsense, you're spoiling time. (japa)

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, some devotees, sometimes they feel that in ISKCON we're talking so much about the business of how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but we're not talking enough about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, kṛṣṇa-kathā, they say. So that's another reason why they want to read all these pastimes.

Prabhupāda: Then let them read. What kind of kṛṣṇa-kathā? The kṛṣṇa-kathā test is as soon as he'll get the taste, he'll lose this taste. That is the.... What is this nonsense?

Rāmeśvara: Won't it purify them? That's what they say, "It will purify me."

Prabhupāda: What you are purified? You have become a, what is called, putrefied, not purified.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, he said that "Give me the same money as the capitalist will spend in six months. I shall spend every day. I shall get that money every day and I shall spend it." So this worker class, there is no culture. You may pay them heavy amount of money, but they will spend it and remain a poor man. Because he has no culture.

Stansky: This is true.

Prabhupāda: You see this black men. They earn sufficient money, but see their home. See their home. You America, you have given them equal rights, they are getting money, but they have no culture. Therefore you may pay them as much as you like, but still poverty-stricken. In Africa also I have seen that they have got their own kingdom, independence, but if we go to the African slums, they are poverty-stricken, wretched. So this civilization will not endure. If there is no culture, simply by money you cannot maintain a standard of civilization. That is not possible. Now the American leaders they are thinking, "Let us have money, then everything..." Of course, by money you are covering all the defects of the social culture. But this will not endure. Day will come and everything will be exposed. Therefore culture required.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: Father Kern's concern is always for the poor, for the downtrodden, for those who suffer, for those who are deprived.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is imagination. That is never will be fulfilled. That is simply imagination. As I told you, that, what you can do? There are so many poor men. We can estimate like this: the rich men and the middle class men and the poor class men. These three orders are there everywhere.

Scheverman: So you see that as in nature, as coming from the Lord God Himself, these three levels.

Prabhupāda: Now, when I did not come to your country, I thought that in America, everyone is rich.

Scheverman: (laughs) Most everyone in another country thinks everyone in America is rich, yes. There's only one class here.

Prabhupāda: But when I came here I saw so many bums—are called bums? (laughter) They are lying on the street.

Kern: But we think that...

Prabhupāda: First of all, let me finish. So why, America, they are lying on the street?

Kern: They're not. They're not.

Prabhupāda: How, what can you do?

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prof. O'Connell: Swamiji, could you speak a bit about the proper attitude of the child towards the father? Is it one of fear, respect, love?

Prabhupāda: Love. Basic relation love. Father loves the child, naturally. The child also naturally loves the father. This is natural relationship. Father works whole day and night for maintaining the children, family, and if the child out of love takes his lozenges and offers to the father, "Father, it is very nice, you take," father will be very glad. "Oh, yes, yes, I'll take." Father does not require the lozenges, but out of love the small child offering a little lozenges, father is very glad: "Oh, this child loves me." So Kṛṣṇa says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati tad aham aśnāmi (BG 9.26). This is relationship. Even the poorest man, he can offer to Kṛṣṇa a little flower, little fruit, and Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, if it is offered with love, I accept it." That is the relation. What Kṛṣṇa has got to do with little flower and little fruits? But He accepts, tad aham aśnāmi. He said. Bhakty-upahṛtam. "Because he has brought it with love and devotion, I accept it." If the supreme father accepts from you something, then your life is successful.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Indian man: Is this agreement due to learning or out of...?

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), you surrender, you become qualified. You agree, "Yes, I surrender, Kṛṣṇa says." Then immediately you become qualified. But that you do not do. Kṛṣṇa is personally canvassing, but we are not agreeing. What can be done? If I say, with a bag of million dollars, "Take this bag," if you don't agree, then you remain poor man. But you agree, "Yes, without any labor I'm getting the million dollars. Well, all right." Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To come to that Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly and surrender to Kṛṣṇa, it takes many millions of births. But if one is intelligent, if this is the ultimate goal, that one has to come to this point, to surrender to Vāsudeva, why not do it immediately? That is intelligence. That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is canvassing. One has to take millions of births to come to this point, and Kṛṣṇa is personally promising, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Why not take advantage? That means you do not agree. If you agree, the result is immediate. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). They are thinking, "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is also human being like me. Why shall I surrender to Him?" They are mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ. Then remain a rascal. What can be done? We have got little independence, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. But because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got little independence, so we can refuse. Although Kṛṣṇa canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), we can refuse: "Why shall I surrender to You?" That is our misfortune. But if you agree, you get immediate result. Therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. To agree, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Because we have got so many nasty, dirty things within our heart, we cannot agree. But if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then we become cleansed in heart, and then agree.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: Anadhyataivasādhutve sādhutve dambha eva tu.

Prabhupāda: And if you are poor man, then you are not honest. That is the criterion. "Oh, here is a..." When the poor man comes, you'll not give place at your place. If he wants to stay, you'll refuse, "No." Because he's poor, he's immediately accepted as dishonest. He may be honest or dishonest, but poverty is a sign for accepting a man as dishonest. Then?

Pradyumna:

anāḍhyataivāsādhutve

sādhutve dambha eva tu

svīkāra eva codvāhe

snānam eva prasādhanam

(SB 12.2.5)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Marriage will go on simply by agreement, not by qualification. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Snānam eva prasādhanam. And if you take bath, then all bodily cleanliness is finished, that's all. Then?

Pradyumna: Dūre vāry-ay...

Prabhupāda: Vāry-ayanam.

Pradyumna: Oh. Dūre...

Prabhupāda: Dūre vāry-ayanaṁ tīrtham. Tīrtham. If you go... Just like there is Vṛndāvana and here is New Vrindaban. But if you spend ten thousand dollars and go to Vṛndāvana, then it is pilgrimage. And here is Vṛndāvana-candra. So that is not very important. Dūre vāry-ayanam. You have to go far, far away, (laughter) then it will be pilgrimage. In India, there is Ganges in Calcutta. But they go to Hardwar. Then it is pilgrimage. (laughter) The same Ganges, coming from Hardwar.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Very nice. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the movement of ānanda, pleasure only. Kṛṣṇa is ānandamaya, and if you remain with Kṛṣṇa you'll become ānandamaya. A rich man, he's enjoying, and if you remain in association with the rich man, you also enjoy. Where is the difficulty? A very rich man, and his associates, they are also rich men. Is it not? And if you remain with poor man, you are also poor.

Rūpānuga: You've explained that the servant in the house of the king, he is almost as good as the king.

Prabhupāda: No, he is better than king. King, he eats whatever is offered to him, but they can eat whatever they like. Is it not? Who is restricting them? (aside:) You can open that. Just stand towards there. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Is that, cutting the cake, is that a Vedic..., did they used to do that in Vedic times, or is that a Western invention? We were just wondering about it.

Prabhupāda: Prasāda distribution. Either you cut or take with hand, the same thing. It doesn't make any difference.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: If you are unfit for that occupation, why should you imitate, waste your time? If you are, you are fit for becoming a carpenter, why should you imitate a brāhmaṇa? Better be expert carpenter and serve Kṛṣṇa with the result of carpentry work. Then there is perfection. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam

(SB 1.2.13)

So suppose you are a carpenter. You earn something. So out of that your income, you offer something to Kṛṣṇa. If, even you are poor man, you can bring some fruit or flower to Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa, I am poor man, I can't give You anything more. But I have secured this fruit and flower. Kindly accept it." Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati tad aham aśnāmi (BG 9.26). So where is the difficulty? Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. You remain a carpenter, but you worship Kṛṣṇa. That is not a very difficult job, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam.

Guest (3): But here in this country we have choices.

Prabhupāda: In this country or that country, there is no such distinction. This patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, any country you can get it. You cannot say in America there is no patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, in India only. No. Everywhere it is available. Therefore this general prescription is there. Even Kṛṣṇa does not say Gaṅgā-jala. Because Gaṅgā, if you say Gaṅgā-jala, that is available in India. He says toyam, any jala, any water. Because any water, as soon as touches the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, it becomes Gaṅgā. Why Gaṅgā is so adored? Because it is coming from the toes of Kṛṣṇa. So any water touching Kṛṣṇa's toes, that becomes Gaṅgā.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. My Guru Mahārāja every step condemned this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. He said frankly that if there are any impediments for our movement, that is this Gandhi and Vivekananda. He said frankly. Hodge-podge. Gandhi's also hodge-podge. He was a politician, and in politics he mixed some spiritual ideas, hodge-podge. And this Vivekananda was also politician. His name was recorded in the government as "sannyāsī-politician." Because after returning from America, he began to preach to make the poor man rich, and these weak, fatty, and so on, exercise. So the government took it that he's, under the dress of a sannyāsī, he's preaching social and political upliftment. So his name was recorded as "sannyāsī-politician." And his name was also recorded, "political saint," Gandhi. After all, the British government, they were very intelligent. They could understand what is what. Otherwise, how they were managing this big empire? Very intelligent, there is no doubt about it. And actually they were intelligent. When they were managing, we were happy, actually. Nobody can deny it. Although they were exploiting. But nobody could understand. Everyone was feeling happy. And as soon as they left, everyone is unhappy. That distinction I can give evidence, I can, from my personal experience. Things were very, very nice. Calcutta, oh, it was so nice city. Now it is hell. It is same Calcutta. Why it is now hell? Hidden(?) garden, that was a nice garden. So... Everywhere hell, only hell. Calcutta was considered the nicest city in India, better than Bombay, but it has become now hell. The streets, especially those quarters in our temple.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Sahani: Yes, we are doing that.

Prabhupāda: You can do it immediately, but unfortunately you'll not do it. What can be done? There is a story, I may narrate it. One poor man was begging on the street, and Lord Śiva and Pārvatī was passing as ordinary man. So Pārvatī requested Lord Śiva that this poor man, he's asking, he's begging, so requested him, "Why don't you give him something?" And Lord Śiva replied, "Even if I give, he'll not be able to enjoy it. He's so unfortunate." "Oh, that we shall see. Why don't you give?" So Lord Śiva, in a watermelon, gave him, say, one thousand dollars. "You take this watermelon." So he thanked him, and after that he thought "What I shall do with this watermelon?" So another man came, "Sir, if you take this watermelon and give me one anna." So he gave one anna and he took it. Because he had no good fortune to take that money within the watermelon. Our fortune is like that. Kṛṣṇa is giving us the final benefit, but we are not taking care of. This is our misfortune.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is bhakti. Just like Arjuna, he was a soldier but he fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is a military art. For his personal, he refused, "No, no, I am not going to fight with my relatives." But when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants it, he did it. So anything, if we dovetail with Kṛṣṇa's service, that becomes bhakti. (indistinct) Just like Kṛṣṇa is saying, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Anyone who is offering in devotion a little leaf, little flower, little water, "I accept." So Kṛṣṇa is not poverty-stricken that He wants from me something but He wants your bhakti, that you become a devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. He wants that. So if the poorest man also gives something in bhakti, Kṛṣṇa accepts it. So that does not mean that I have got money, Kṛṣṇa is satisfied with little flower, so give little flower to Kṛṣṇa and enjoy this money for my sense gratification. (chuckles) That is cheating. That is cheating. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you do, kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam, give Me that," and that is bhakti. So whatever position we may be in, if our life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. That is bhakti, it doesn't matter what is his status, qualification. Kṛṣṇa is unlimitedly everything. Just like we are spending lakhs and crores in this, for this purpose. They may say that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied with patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ (BG 9.26), why you are spending so much money? The idea is that when there is money, if you simply offer Kṛṣṇa patraṁ puṣpaṁ toyaṁ, that is cheating. Kṛṣṇa knows it. If you have got money, then you must spend—a gorgeous temple for Kṛṣṇa. That is proper utilization. Not the money is kept for my separate use and Kṛṣṇa may be offered a little leaf and water. According to one's position, he must worship Kṛṣṇa.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I was explaining, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). If the big big politicians, head of the state, they understand, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), others will follow.

Host: Others will follow. So I must thank you for coming. I request you, if you have little time, you could sit there and listen to Swamiji, other people also are coming, and have little prasādam and go, see, after having come to my humble house, see my pūjā room also, how humbly I keep that pūjā room, so that we learn, we must learn to keep up our religion. When we become educated, when we become ministers, ambassadors, we forget our.... When we become big people, very big people, our eyes jump up and go to the head here. When we become rich people and money people—who is speaking to you? Not a rich man. A man who comes from a humble family. The man who was born in a tiled-roofed house. So I have never changed. My, among my friends, you have seen a friends sitting here, and also the village which I come from, he has seen where I staying and where I am staying now. But I am not changed. But at the same time I have not forgotten my religion. I have not changed my faith. Many people say you must know that I drink. Am I a drunkard? Am I a trouble-maker? No. Sometimes in the society it becomes a necessity. I am not a sādhu, I am not a sannyāsī, I have not renounced the world. Many of you have drunk with me. Some of you at least. So what? Am I a sinner, if I remember my religion, if I pray my God, if I pray my Lord? No. I do not dupe anybody, do not cheat anybody, do not harm anybody, do not hurt anybody. That's what I have been following. That is why I think my God has been very very kind to me. That is why, because of Lord Kṛṣṇa, all of you have been very kind to me throughout... Can you imagine a poor man born in a poor family winning four elections without money? People spend lakhs. Lord knows in 1952 how much money have I spent? Two thousand rupees. '58, '57 maybe twelve thousand rupees. '62 maybe about forty to forty-five thousand. Of course, '67 was expensive for me. I had to sell away my humble house. So this is all faith. Faith in God, faith in country, that is patriotism. Without patriotism we talk and yap a lot. "What do you think of this? What do you think of this?" My country is my country, no other country. This is my country. That is deśa-bhakti. All people say that, you know, "My religion is my religion, that is my bhakti. But my country comes first." That is known as patriotism. In Urdu it is said, (indistinct) "We will die for the nation one day." If you remember, my friends, I was one of those in 1962 offered to join as a soldier against Chinese aggression. Not only offered, I have submitted my resignation to Jawaharlal Nehru, which was not accepted because of certain problems at that time. Because of my age, because of my age, and also the Bilateral Talks, Colombo Proposals came. Never mind. That should be the spirit among us, and particularly youngsters, particularly youngsters. They must not forget their religion, they must not forget their country. So anyway, leaders come and go, we all come and go. I am not a leader, please don't put me as a leader. I am one of the humblest workers in this country. I am coming from the humblest section of the society also. The leaders come. (Hindi) If you want to translate you translate, (Hindi). But the country remains (Hindi). (end)

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This combination of rich men, poor men, for Kṛṣṇa. The same—andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Both of them are useless separately, and when they combine in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are all useful. It is very good example. And there is another example, that a piece of wire is falling, rotting, and a piece of bamboo, rotting, and a piece of squash skin is rotting. And one gentleman collected. He nicely trimmed the piece and dried the squash, the outer portion, and took the bamboo and nicely cut it and joined the string and this became a sitar: "Ting, ting, ting." So it is the intelligent person who joins all these things and makes it very useful. These are the examples. The bamboo alone is useless, and a small piece of wire, useless, and a thrown out squash skin, useless. But if you can join them together,...you can "Ting, ting." Similarly andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Here is a lame man; here is a blind man. All right, combine together and use them. That is wanted. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhi labhate. This wire does not change. It is wire. But when it is combined, it is useful. So our propaganda is, "They are separately planning useless. Let them combine together in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All this planning shall be successful.

Room Conversation -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: To live very gorgeously is not good.

Mahāṁsa: But even their houses are not so clean, shabby.

Prabhupāda: Even though they're not... You cannot say not... They are clean. I have seen in Bombay even the poorest man, his house, and a Parsee gentleman, his house. Kitchen habits. A Parsee's kitchen is so nasty. And here you see this poor man's house, they are neat. Their utensils how much cleansed. I had been in Parsee kitchen. All the pots black. Nothing is cleansed. For eating they use this China. So clean or unclean cannot be understood. Simply washed. But so far the kitchen pots, all are... In our also, when it is handled by this European, American devotees, the black. Down, it is black. That should not be black. It must be cleansed.

Mahāṁsa: By the heat with these wood, it brings up a lot of soot.

Prabhupāda: But it must be cleansed daily.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Caraṇāravindam: Little effort, just basic, a little work and...

Prabhupāda: They got their own paddy from the field, milk, some vegetables. Those who are fish eaters, they have got small lake, fish. Whole family without any... "Where I shall get money?" "How shall I eat?" These things were absent. Even the poor man.

Caraṇāravindam: Actually I have seen that even in all these villages in Africa and India, they have no real connection to the city politics. Because if the city breaks down they could move back to... They have their cow, they have field, vegetables...

Prabhupāda: If there is war they were not affected. And the soldiers would not bother the public. It is said during Mohammedan period the soldiers of one party will ask the cultivator, "Where the other soldiers gone?" They would say, "I have seen and they have gone this side." The cultivator is going on. The fighting is going on, but the cultivator is not affected. He is free. "You fight between themselves and whoever the victor is, I shall pay taxes. That's all. I have nothing to do with politics." This was... Between two parties of king or political, they may fight. Citizens, they have nothing to do who is the victorious. "You fight and one of you will become victorious. So you take taxes. I am concerned with paying tax. And tax, tax means whatever I have grown, you take one-fourth. You see this I have grown. Now you can take away one-fourth." No income tax, no sale tax, no this tax or that tax. And if some year, by chance, he has not grown anything—no tax. "I have not produced, I could not produce anything." Very simple. Soldiers, they were not paid. They were given land by the king. "You enjoy this land without any price. But when there is fight you have to come out." Fight is not going every day. It may take place after some years. So they are living peacefully.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Interviewer: What is the reason of the success of your mission in the foreign countries?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very intelligent question. We are after material civilization, and they are fed up with material civilization. That is the position. We are now trying to imitate them, a skyscraper building, but they are disgusted with skyscraper building. These boys, they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, and especially in America there is no question of poor man. There is no question of poor man. But still, they do not like the materialistic way of life of their father and grandfathers.

Interviewer: But does that not mean because they are rich they can afford religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the... Because you are... We have already explained. You are a spiritual being. You cannot be satisfied with material atmosphere in any stage. Just like a fish is an animal of the water. If you bring the fish from water and keep on the land very comfortably, it cannot be comfortable. It is impossible. Similarly, we are all spiritual beings. Any amount of material comforts will never satisfy us, unless we come to the spiritual platform. That is the demand. So now they have satisfied their material demands, but the urge is there, "I want something more, to be happy." And that is spiritual.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the root of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So He is the root. So you pour water in the root. Just like we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. So because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, does it mean that we are not taking care of the human being? That is automatically coming. But those who are taking care of the human society only, social work, political work, they do not know even what Kṛṣṇa. Missing. That is the difference. Because we are taking of Kṛṣṇa, we have come to the human society. We are teaching them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual knowledge. That is automatically. We are feeding them, giving them prasādam. That is included. But those who are opening hospitals for human being, they are taking the poor animals to the slaughterhouse, maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. That means foolishness. Kṛṣṇa will not be happy that one son you take care by opening hospital and another son you go, you send him to the slaughterhouse. This is foolishness. Never. God will never be happy. The same example. If the father has got both children—you take care one of them and others you kill them—will the father be happy? So that is not the way of making the supreme father, God, happy. That is not the way. That is foolish way. Rather, displeasing the father. That is not a very good philosophy. Why you should make distinction? He claims,

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: (BG 15.7) "Every living entity is My part and parcel. Every living entity is begotten by Me. I am the father." So how you can make discrimination from one son to another? That is foolishness. You cannot expect by pleasing one son the father will be happy. But if you bring something to the father and pay him, or some food, "Sir, it is for your sons," then he'll be pleased. He'll distribute the foodstuff to his sons. But if you take care one of the sons and don't take care of the other son, the father will never please. Very... That is not the way of pleasing the father. That is foolishness. You may say that "I am taking care of the best son," but to a father, either the best son or the lowest son, the same. Father does not make any..., "Because this is best son, he should be satisfied and the worst sons should be neglect." Father does not make. Father will like better that "You take care of my worst son first." And besides that, to take care of the human society, it is also bogus. Nobody can take care. There are so many problems in the human society how you can take care? But the real problem is—that is for everyone—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Either he is animal or human being or demigod or big man or small man or rich man or poor man, a learned man, foolish man, these problems are there, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So if you take care of these problems, how to save them, all of them, from these four problems, that is real service. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Otherwise temporary—"I am hungry. You give me some relief"—but that relief is temporary. I'll become again hungry. And if I come to you twice, thrice, you'll be disgusted. Neither you can. There are so many hungry men. But if with a view to solve his all problems of life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, if you take care of him, that is the best service.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Not supreme. He says this is of the person, different ways of thinking. But everywhere He is stressing bhakti. Just like generally people are karmī. Karmīs. They are working hard. And he has made his plan. He has made his plan that, "In this way, I shall be happy." So throughout the whole world, the beginning from animals, lower than the man, and then men, different types of men... So manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, every one of them, he is planning or he is thinking in different ways. So the animals, they cannot understand the master's answer. But in the human being, they are according to the mind, mental concoction and planning, there are four classes of men. One class is called karmī. They are thinking that by working hard and trying to find out my own way of happiness, they will be happy. This is called karmī. Without any knowledge, they are simply working. They are actually like the animals. The animals, the dog, is jumping, a few miles he is jumping. He is thinking that "By jumping I shall be happy." Or for the time being he may happy by jumping. And sometimes thinking otherwise. So karmīs, they do not know what is the actual aim of life. Out of many millions of persons, mostly they are karmīs. They do not know what is the actual aim of life. But they are devising different plans, that I shall be happy in this way." This is called karmī. He does not take the standard way of happiness. Then the next elevated person is jñānī. He thinks, ponders, that "I have worked so hard, but still I could not become happy." The jñānī. He searches out philosophically. Then next class, yogi. Yogi concentrates the mind to think over, "What is my problem? Why I am not happy? How he can become happy?" He is trying to, very soberly, to understand. Yoga means controlling the senses, and the master of the senses is the mind. So he, trying to make the mind concentrated on the fact, he is yogi. And then the next stage is... If he is yogi, then there are different types of yoga system. But when he comes to the point that "I am not master. There is one master, controller. So master, whatever master orders, I have to execute that. That is my real happiness." Bhakta. So karmī, jñānī, yogi, and bhakta. So out of these four classes of men, the three classes means karmī, jñānī and yogi, they are restless. Because they actually did not find out what is the solution. One after another, there are different classes, there are classification. One is better than the other. That is another thing. But none of them... They are still misled. A karmī, he is thinking that "I am poor man. If I become rich man, I will be happy." He is thinking in that way. Jñānī is thinking that "Poor and rich doesn't matter. I am Brahman. I am spirit soul. If I merge into the Supreme Brahman I will be happy." Yogi is thinking that "The Absolute is present everywhere in His personal feature. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So if I become one with Him, I will be happy." But still there is a demand, "If I become like this." So so long he is not self-realized, he will try to become something and so long he'll try to become something, then there will be restlessness.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I do not hate you, but I beat you with shoes. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: No, you don't beat me with shoes. He never beat them the shoes. He said, "Well we don't like you." If I say, "Do this," and it is not good, I mean, I'm not wrong in that way I suppose. I'm open to correction.

Prabhupāda: No, no. English civilization is not good. What was the wrong? I say repeatedly again and again, he ruined the Manchester cloth business, he developed Ahmedabad cloth. The result is we poor men, we were paying one rupee six annas per pair, now we are paying thirty rupees. Money is going... Instead of going to the pocket of the Englishmen it is going to the pocket of Mahadevia. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: English people, they, I mean, ruined their whole industry of... Bengal textile industry was ruined by Britishers. They cut away the thumbs. That is... I'm sorry, sir...

Prabhupāda: Therefore why mahātmā? The same business you are doing, why you say mahātmā? If you are doing the same business...

Dr. Patel: He never called himself mahātmā. People called him mahātmā.

Prabhupāda: He liked to enjoy it. He liked to enjoy it. That's all. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Mahātmā has no business to this... (break) ...fact, the present position of India, it is not very good. But we can do that. We have got the means. If we make propaganda village to village. Still, the villagers, they are unpolluted, they can be recovered. Still, when we hold meeting of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, thousands of men come. And that, our Hyderabad land is very suitable for this purpose.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: As if he was ordained to do it.

Dr. Patel: But, well, he felt... He was a philosopher.

Prabhupāda: Such a rascal. He has moved poverty. He was in poverty-stricken...

Dr. Patel: He was extremely poor man. Yes, he died (indistinct). But that is what he thought.

Prabhupāda: That means poor fund of knowledge. That's it. These rascals will never go to the... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). They do not know this science, these rascals. They manufacture. And we have also learned to manufacture.

Dr. Patel: No, he did only on the Western thought.

Prabhupāda: No, no, Western philosophy... We have learned this art, manufacturing. Just like Vinoba Bhave's has proposed, "I want mukti not in the traditional way." He'll manufacture his own way. This is his intelligence after eighty-two years or eighty-one years. "Not in the traditional, not in the religious way." Just see. He's still hovering in darkness, and he's going to get mukti. This is the position.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They're so afraid they cannot say the truth.

Indian Lady: Their people don't like us. (indistinct-man says something to Prabhupāda in background)

Prabhupāda: Oh, where is he? Good. Everything is bad.

Indian Lady: German people don't like us.

Prabhupāda: Why we are liked? We are poor, who will like us? Poor man is never liked, especially in the western countries. They hate. And not only there, our Canakya Paṇḍita also says, daridra-doṣa guṇarāśī nāśī, if you are poor then all your qualities are gone.

Dr. Patel: What is the disease?

Prabhupāda: So materially wherever I go, there any gentleman I meet, "Oh, you are coming from India, very poor (indistinct)." This is our (indistinct). Not now, fifty years ago in 1930's when one of my godbrothers, one or two they went to London, Lady Willingdon, she was speaking that "You people come here from India and we give you degrees and you earn your livelihood in India. So what you have come to teach us?" That's a fact. We go to England to take the degrees, MRCT, FRCA, barrister or so on, so on, so on.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. No, you can open the fan, one point. This is the real culture, original culture of India, and they are accepting it. Why not government come to my help? Without any help I am doing so much.

D. D. Desai: This is exceptionally, I would say, very creditable. When you say...

Prabhupāda: We are increasing. There is opposition against our movement, and still, we are increasing.

D. D. Desai: When you say, "We are poor..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, so-called poor.

D. D. Desai: That's it. Because the other day when I was reading Howard Hughes and his billion-dollar life, and then also Poli(?), I can say this much, that some of our poorest of Indians are far better off than these gentlemen.

Prabhupāda: Yes, culturally we are better off. Materially, we are certainly very poor. But because we are culturally advanced, even the actual poor man, he does not feel that he is in poverty.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You cannot educate, neither you bring. This is māyā. Do you think... Do you think that only in your presence your children will be happy? There are... Just see here in the corner, the father, mother, and the child is always, twenty-four hours, crying. The father, mother, is there. They are poor men, they are taking care, but still, the child is unhappy; it is crying twenty-four hours. There are many you'll find. So does it mean that in the presence of father, mother, a child is happy? Everyone is being conducted by his destiny. The father, mother, may be there or may not be there; his destiny will go on. This is the law of nature. You see here. Do you mean to say, because that man is poor, he's not taking care of the child? Why the child is crying twenty-four hours? So if one child is made to cry by his destiny, even in the presence of his father, mother, he has to cry. Nobody can make him happy. So this is called illusion, that "I am doing." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27).

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But do they take Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme? That is the... This man was saying. So I said, "God is..." You were not present when I was speaking with that...? That "In your estimation, whether God is good or God is bad, He is God. You can think that 'God is not giving the poor man any food; therefore God is bad.' But when you think that, 'Yes, God is good,' then you are devotee." This is going on: "God is good; God is bad; God is contaminated; God is uncontaminated."

Girirāja: But actually they're atheists, or Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: They're ordinary men, third-class men. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). What they'll understand about Kṛṣṇa, third-class men? Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati. When one is siddha, out of them, one may understand. And how these third-class men will understand Kṛṣṇa? If they want to remain on the third-class position, they'll never understand Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Follow this policy. Just like govindāya namaḥ. When you see that the puffed rice is flying in the air, "All right, govindāya namaḥ. Govindāya namaḥ."

Girirāja: Offer it to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise I'll not give to Govinda. Income tax officer will take: "Govindāya namaḥ." If you distribute prasādam of Govinda among the poor men... We have got already in Māyāpur. Increase that. There is... They are drum-beating, that "Anyone who is hungry, please come and take prasāda."

Girirāja: That they accept as charitable. They want charitable.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: So what could be more charitable than feeding?

Prabhupāda: No, you keep always kitchen, and by drum beating, that, "Anyone hungry within this area, or anywhere, come here. Take capatis, roti," and distribute prasādam. That is in our program.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, like that. And also, if the movie is made very well, then we can make an excerpt...

Prabhupāda: How they are contributing their hard-earned money, how it is, the are collecting money, huge amount.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, they'll interview very wealthy people also. Good idea.

Prabhupāda: They're not all wealthy. Wealthies are giving more, and poor men also give.

Rāmeśvara: But in America, if they see that a wealthy man is also worshiping Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: ...then they'll have respect for it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: If they think just poor people...

Prabhupāda: No.

Rāmeśvara: ...they'll not respect it as much.

Prabhupāda: Just like... The temples are maintained by all the people. All the big, big kings... So you show how kings of Cuttack, they constructed a temple of... A temple construction is costly affair. How Mahārāja Mansingha constructed the Vṛndāvana costly temples. That is everywhere.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Actually India is poor. When we give food, how voraciously they eat. They cannot eat. They have no resources to eat nicely at home. That's a fact. Half-fed. At least half-fed. In the villages they are not fully fed. They have no sufficient clothing, no food, that's all. The rascal politicians, realizing heavy tax, and that is divided amongst them. It is not going to the poor. They are imitating Western way of life. They have got huge expenditure. So whatever money is coming, they are spending for their luxury, and poor men... The Gandhi's movement, boycott British goods, but they took it: "Boycott British goods and take our goods." So the consumer goods were the same. Gandhi helped to stop the British capitalist in favor of the Indian capitalist. The consumer remained in the same position, rather, worse. The foreigners, they are thinking that "These people are poor. They cannot pay more to me." And these rascals, Indian capitalists, in the name of nationalism, Birlas and others, they exploit. And they give contribution to Gandhi, Gandhi's staff, Jawaharlal Nehru's staff. And they took the opportunity that "I shall pay this rascal one lakh, and I shall utilize the ten lakhs." That's it. So the object of exploitation remained the same. Rather, by artificial inflation of money market put common men in plight, because the other day I was calculating... The things have gone high priced, thirty times, but the income has not increased thirty times. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we had no scarcity. In our standard of life there was no scar... What standard of...? That standard of life is still... Now that three hundred rupees is... He calculated.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Well, I feel this land acquisition is not going to take place so soon 'cause... (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why should we think?

Gargamuni: That has always been your program.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why should we think Kṛṣṇa is poor man?

Gargamuni: You used to give us ISKCON bullets when we came.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. You were from the very beginning. Alone, I was preparing. "Give them at least one or two capatis. That's all."

Gargamuni: You were keeping in the corner...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes!

Gargamuni: ...in your apartment. We used to ask, "Swamiji, can we take?" And you used to say "Yes."

Prabhupāda: And that Stryadīśa?

Gargamuni: Yes, Stryadīśa. He would eat twenty capatis.

Prabhupāda: "Stryadīśa, shall I give you more?" "Yes. Four." Then he finished. "Can I give you more?" "Yes." So I was giving him four at a time. So four at a time, I was giving five times, six times.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyāsī and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh? You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard—how you can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied. But what is this home? To sense gratification. You are not serving this woman. Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses. So actually the man is serving his own senses, uṣṭra. He's eating his own blood and thinking, "Thorn very palatable." He's eating thorn. What is his palatable? Cutting the tongue and blood is coming out, and when the thorn's chewed with this blood, it makes little taste. Blood has got taste. And he's thinking, "Thorn is very nice." Therefore they have been called as uṣṭra. Uṣṭra eats own, drinks or eats his own blood, and takes the thorn as very good. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. These animals have been specially mentioned: dog; viḍ-varāha, means hog; uṣṭra; and khara means ass. How Bhāgavata has selected. (laughs) Śva means dog. Dog, after technical education, if he does not get a post where he can use this computer and other big, big..., he's a dog. He goes to a bank, "Sir, I am expert in this machine work.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Why you say, speak India or in England? The human intelligence is the same. There is no change. They have made like this: "East," "West" and "England," and... The psychology is the same. The ass is the same. The camel is the same. The dog is the same. We are talking of these dogs. Do you think that in Europe the dog is different from Indian dog? (laughs) They have created another problem. But we take: "You are all dogs. Either you be Indian or England or German, you are, after all, after dog. Your mentality is dog." They have created that "Indian dog is better than the English dog" or "English dog is better than German." What is better? It is dog. You are doglike and hankering after some job in America and amongst Europeans. The Indians are all doing that, the same education. Recently for a post of five hundred men there were three lakhs of applications. This is education. And you'll find uneducated Indian, still he's independent. You will find in Calcutta especially we have seen. Yes. In the morning they'll purchase a bag of potato. Say, he invests twenty rupees. Nowadays he'll sit down in a corner and make two rupees' profit. He invests twenty rupees, and he gets twenty-two. He's satisfied, poor man. Then in the, say, ten to twelve he'll purchase some dāl. He'll go home to home. He'll make another two rupees' profit. In the evening he'll take some kerosene oil, and he'll sell.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: We don't support it. Our business does not support. You can live without car, but you cannot live without rainfall. Why don't you take the important business? Make machine that the water from the sea can be drawn and saltless and distributed. Why don't you do that?

Satsvarūpa: They've put aside the big problems and doing little things.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Childish. Every day the consumer's goods are increasing in price. So many poor men, they cannot purchase. Your motorcar machine, that is not meant for the poor man. Poor man requires food grains. There is no water. What you are doing for that? They require bread, food grains. Supply them sufficiently. They'll be happy. Without motorcar they can live. You can live also. But without food grains you cannot live and they cannot live.

Satsvarūpa: They can't do it, but then, when we say, "Rains will come by yajña," they'll say "No."

Prabhupāda: No, that is... You don't believe it, but here is the... That means you do not believe in God. Why don't you make an experiment? Ask everybody to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, kīrtana. As soon as you say you don't believe, then you don't believe in God, "God says." That is your disease. I can give you so many points. You have to elaborate it.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This will be a revolution, science and Bhagavad-gītā.

Gargamuni: He's our member. (break) ...three times to our temple in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: And through another member, Mr. Mahesvari, he became one of our members. (break)

Prabhupāda: Rich man, poor man, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, American, Ind..., sab combined. (Hindi) This is really United Nation, our organization. (Hindi) So? What other pictures?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I have many pictures. I gave a lecture, seminar, just before I came here at the university, about the nature of the Absolute Truth in terms of science and in terms of Bhagavad-gītā, a comparative study of the concept of the Absolute Truth. And there were many professors from physics, chemistry, mathematics, from philosophy, from biology, and from sociology. It was... Balavanta Prabhu was also there, and a few other devotees. It was quite interesting. And there was a slide show.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta was in Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. This is in the United States.

Prabhupāda: United States.

Train Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Satsvarūpa: But we have to take the risk to go and see their face, to preach to them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you are engaged in preaching, you are not affected. (break) ...Himalaya just to avoid seeing the face of the vicious.

Satsvarūpa: In Bhagavad-gītā one of the items of knowledge is to go to a solitary place...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: ...and avoid the congested...

Prabhupāda: Practice yoga—solitary place, sacred and solitary. What is this circle we see in morning? Simply "Cāi, cāi, cāi." And cigarette, biḍi, and talking nonsense, drinking, no arrangement. Vedic system, still in India in morning they take bath, in the villages. In the cities also, those who come from village, you'll find in Bombay this side, many poor men, they're taking early in the morning bathing. You have seen that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Not only Juhu. Olee(?). They'll wash their floor, take bath. In village also they'll go to the well and take water. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I have suggested already, already suggested that "Take milk powder and ghee from Australia, and every center distribute prasādam like anything." And in India at least, if you give them nice puri and chānā preparation and sweet preparation from milk, oh, they'll be so glad, both poor man and rich man. Yesterday I was eating kacuris. What is this kacuri? Made of ghee. Samosā, made of ghee; rasagullā, made of... Cow is so important. She can deliver so many nice preparations, sweet and salty. The whole world does not know how to eat. Like rākṣasas they are killing the poor animals. So we have to teach. This is an introduction of new type of civilization for making life successful.

Harikeśa: This news in India that they are outlawing cow-killing—some news has been coming that they're outlawing cow-killing in India—is very encouraging to all the devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are doing it on account of this movement. Government has appreciation our movement, from private sources. Now this, our American, what is called? Opposing.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say like that? And Kṛṣṇa says openly, mam ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He doesn't even recommend to worship demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). So these are imagination, concoction. They are not authorized. Vivekananda advocated daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā hundred years ago. So India is full of daridras. What Mothilal can do? What Vivekananda can do? This is all simply concoction. You cannot do anything.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

The nature's law will go on. You cannot make a poor man a rich man, unhappy man an happy man. That is not possible. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Can you make a hog eat halavā instead of stool? Can you make? By nature's way it is going on. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These are foolish person who concoct ideas. It is not possible. If you can do anything to the human society, induce him to become a Kṛṣṇa devotee.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There was a big temple of prostitutes in Calcutta, Kach-Kamil.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kach...?

Prabhupāda: Kach-Kamil. Kach-Kamil means the gentleman who kept her, he was a big glass merchant. So the temple was decorated with mirrors and glass, and her name was Kamil, so Kach-Kamil temple. Still there are. Everyone was Kṛṣṇa conscious, either poor man, retired man or prostitute or gentleman or rich man—everyone. The society itself was Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There wasn't any influence of that Ramakrishna Mission yet?

Prabhupāda: No Ramakrishna... Who cares for?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had no... I mean, nowadays they are so widespread in their effect.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Oh... Because people are degraded. Who cared for Ramakrishna?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In those days it was much purer.

Prabhupāda: Still who cares for Ramakrishna?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now people are hodgepodge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) ...whether I have a family.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: These Englishmen were very much eager to know the man who is working, whether he's family man, because a family man will never become irresponsible. And this is very, very much visible fact in India. A very poor man, if he's family man, he'll work. It is the family affection. And in economics we have read Marshall's economics. He gives... The economic development takes place by family affection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good observation.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Therefore in India the father-mother takes the responsibility of the son, to make him a family man. Then leave, marry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not a bogus sādhu.

Prabhupāda: Then he... Father-mother knows that he'll take care of his life automatically. And the boy and the girl are not allowed to mix with second girl, second boy. They are kept strictly. And when they're grown up, they're allowed to mix and the affection becomes firm. These are psychology. It is the psychology of woman that before puberty, if she has got a boy, she loves forever. She'll never be unchaste. So these marriage things are done very psychologically, scientifically, so that they may become happy, and then, in peaceful mind, combine together, good cooperation, they make progress, spiritual. This is the plan, varṇāśrama-dharma. Very scientific. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that." Whatever Kṛṣṇa shall give-perfect. Nobody cares. They are suffering.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the villages in India, is this still going on sometimes. We see in the cities it's not, but in the villages, do they still have more than one wife?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Not poor man. Kṣatriyas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, not these...

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not these workers.

Prabhupāda: They cannot maintain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's right. They don't have the land to maintain. You have to have land.

Prabhupāda: You can have more than one wife, but maintain them just like wife. She may not have any complaints that "My husband cannot maintain me."

Śatadhanya: (entering) All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Close that door. How are you?

Śatadhanya: Feeling much better. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...man and woman happy, and in happiness, in peace of mind, make progress, spiritual life. That is the Vedic civilization. The guide is there, brāhmaṇa. The protection is there, kṣatriya. The food is there, vaiśya. And labor is there, śūdra. Combine together, live very happily, peacefully, in the society. You'll find still. The aim is how to realize God. Village to village, you'll find temples.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Must have value. That is Indian investment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the opposite of the Western.

Prabhupāda: And whatever you manufacture, you can show back. Suppose this tape recorder. If it is working, it has value. What is the use of it? Who cares for you? If it is in working order, it has value. Otherwise, (taps microphone) who cares for it? But if you have got gold, silver, metal... There was a small banker's. You require... I am poor man. I require only two rupees, but I have no money. You take one utensil and go to a small banker. He will keep this pot. "Give me two rupees." The pot is only five rupees' worth, so he'll keep it. He'll give you two rupees. So your immediate necessity is... This way, Indian economics.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've noticed that the people in the villages, when they come to fetch water, they have very nice pots. The ladies are wearing some bracelets. Gold, I think, it must be.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the village.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You'll find description in Bhāgavata. They were coming to congratulate Kṛṣṇa—so nice dress, so nice ornament, so nice foodstuff made of ghee, grains in our...

Śatadhanya: Sometimes the rich Marwari ladies, when they come to Māyāpur, once in a while they give some ornament to the Deity. They'll give one ring or one bracelet, gold.

Prabhupāda: That was always. They would offer some ornament to the Deity.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Gujarati.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Gujarati, yeah, Gujarat. In Bombay there is a big Bombay Tri(?). Pañcadraviḍa Swami, that was his special area. He would go down there, huge spice area.

Prabhupāda: There is a special name of that place. Everyone, every poor man or rich man, must use quantity of spice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was surprised. In Bombay this one life member, very wealthy man... I thought, "Oh, this man must have many businesses." And I found that he only had one business. He simply exports cardamom. And he's a very wealthy man, and he simply exports little cardamom seeds, but such quantities, and it fetches a very good price abroad.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many merchants. They deal in quantity and stock huge. Nobody can compete with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they buy everybody out.

Prabhupāda: He can give so cheap one lakh. Somebody gives you a black, what is called...? Berries, berries.

Upendra: Black pepper?

Prabhupāda: Black pepper.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. Bombay is the best city. He has got facility to stay there. For business Bombay is the best city.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In India.

Prabhupāda: In India. No, world. It is a very important city. Export, import, local. Tremendous business possibility there. Many poor men goes and becomes very rich men. Bombay is very important center. You have to get a place by giving bribe, fifty thousand, sixty thousand, to stay there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They call that huṇḍi.

Prabhupāda: Not huṇḍi.

Bhakti-caru: Pagri.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pagri, I mean.

Prabhupāda: Pagri, yes. To get a place there... Bombay is so important that if you want to get a place you have to pay no less, fifty thousand, lakh of rupees to stand. Then do business. Very important. Anything you do, you must have land first of all to stand. Otherwise what you'll do? To stand in Bombay you have to pay lakh of... Don't you see—we drive away the tenants—how much we recompense. We pay compensation.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Well, the government, the politicians, they incite the people to create trouble, and in this way they try to assume office. They just take advantage of the people in this way, stir them up.

Prabhupāda: Tamils are poor men?

Haṁsadūta: Tamils? No, the Tamils were all the business centers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the reason.

Haṁsadūta: It was actually the Tamils who agitated for the British to get out, and once the British got out, then the Singhalese pushed out the Tamils because they're a minority. About three million Tamils to eleven million Singhalese. The economic and political situation is very, very deteriorated in that country.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of preaching can you do now?

Haṁsadūta: We can preach because we're not identified as Tamils or Hindus, because we are white, so that still attracts the people. We preach in public halls, rent hall...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they lifted the curfew.

Haṁsadūta: The curfew's over now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do the Singhalese take interest as much as the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, they do actually. Actually the Tamils in Śrī Lanka, they're all demigod worshipers. They worship Durgā and Gaṇeśa and Śiva. There's practically not a single Kṛṣṇa temple on the whole island. I was really surprised. Well, that's the situation. They're all demigod worshipers.

Prabhupāda: Demigod worship means followers of Vedas.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: They asked that question about what medicine the poor man would take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What medicine the poor man would take. So he said, "Poor man or rich man, it doesn't matter. The price of it is about forty-eight rupees per tolā, because the gold that is given, it's given back at the end." It's just passed through, the gold. It's not utilized itself. So forty-eight rupees a tolā. This is what he said, very big Marwari kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have heard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this Rāmānujī kavirāja was charging five hundred rupees a tolā. And Vanamali, when we gave him gold, he never returned any gold. So... This is the position, cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Vanamali was also.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You write. You are intelligent. I cannot do anything. I only want...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that point.

Prabhupāda: (crying) I am very poor man, and somehow or other, I built up. And still in my...

Kavirāja (1): (Hindi or Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Aiye. Aiye. (Hindi)

Guest (2): What is the actual problems?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The problems are that... The biggest problem...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is the urine report? Where is Bhakti-caru?

(break) (kavirāja and Prabhupāda—Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Since when is that dropsy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The dropsy is more than one year.

Prabhupāda: No, one year... Less.