Prabhupāda: You are thinking wrongly that we are not responsible. Why you are thinking like that? You are thinking wrongly. Kṛṣṇa did not take in politics, part? Then why you are thinking?
Satish Kumar: No, no, I'm not saying Kṛṣṇa did not take. I'm just saying that it seems, at least sometimes, it seems that people who emphasize the spiritual consciousness do not clarify enough . . . it is not clear enough—and I'm not saying it is not there, but it's not clear enough—the social-political dimension, social action, political action, how we run our society in its practical terms. So it is not clear.
Prabhupāda: No, it is clear. If you are actually surrendered soul, then to you it will be clear. It is very clear. Kṛṣṇa gives direction that this is the business of the brāhmaṇa, this is the business of kṣatriya. So politics is the business of the kṣatriya. So if you act according to Kṛṣṇa's direction in politics, then you are surrendered soul. It is not that because we have got this mālā and tilaka we are surrendered soul, and a kṣatriya cannot be surrendered soul, or a vaiśya cannot be surrendered soul. You have to act according to the direction.
Kṛṣṇa is giving direction: "This is brāhmaṇa's karma." You do it. That means you are surrendered soul, at the same time you are acting as a brāhmaṇa. But if you act whimsically, then where is your surrender? And why do you become a brāhmaṇa? Then it is chaos. That is the present position of the society. They are not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they do not abide by the direction of Kṛṣṇa, still, they have become leaders. Therefore whole thing is chaos.