Prabhupāda: In the material world everyone wants to be the lord, everyone wants to be God. So therefore there is fight. The fighting here takes place because everyone wants to lord it over the material nature. So there is difference of interest. I want to be lord, you want to be lord: now there must be fight. But in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is one Lord and all others servitors. Therefore there is peace. So fighting was not possible in the Vaikuṇṭha world; therefore these two doorkeepers were sent to the material world by the plan of the Supreme Lord so that they could fight as Hiraṇyakaśipu and Hiraṇyākṣa with the Lord. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Now the spiritual spark is entering into the material world, penetrating seven layers. This is called avyakta, nonmanifested. Just like in the sky there are nonmanifested and manifested things. If you go high, some 25,000, fifty thousand miles up, you'll simply find in the sky nothing manifested. But if you go still higher, higher, higher, you will find some other planets existing. So the part which is nonmanifested is called avyakta, and the part which is manifested, that is called vyakta. So these two souls from Vaikuṇṭha, they are coming into this material world. So they're penetrating the nonmanifested matter. As the matter... Five elements—earth, water, fire, air, ether. And then... These are gross elements. And there are subtle elements: mind, intelligence, ego. And then spiritual. Our body is composed of three things—the spirit soul, and it is covered by subtle body: mind, intelligence ego; and there is gross body: fire, water... earth, water, fire, air, ether. So this universe, this universe is only one universe, but there are millions of universes, and they are covered with the gross and subtle elements. And penetrating that gross and subtle elements, when one comes to the sky, there are innumerable planets. The planets are seen, the suns and stars, like that. So the two souls, Jaya and Vijaya, they are coming on this earth. That is shown in this picture. Now they came as demons because they had to fight with the Supreme Lord. The devotees will not fight. The devotees are servitors, but the atheists, the demons, they are always inimical to the Personality of Godhead.
Penetration (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
" penetrated"
|" penetrates"
|" penetrating"
|" penetration"
|"penetrate"
|"penetrating"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Tattva-vidas means those who are in knowledge of the Absolute Truth, they say that Absolute Truth is one. But He's realized in three phases. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Brahman means impersonal, and Paramātmā is localized, and Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So these are different stages. Just like the sun. The first experience of sun is this impersonal effulgence all over the sky. But that is not very important than the sun globe. Because it is from the sun globe the effulgence is coming. So anyone will understand that this sunshine is not so important as the sun globe. And if you approach the sun globe and if you penetrate into the sun, if you have got strength to go into the... Just like you are trying go to the moon planet. If you have got really scientific strength to go within the sun planet, then you'll find there is sun-god. That information we get from Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I told the sun-god Vivasvān first." So therefore there is a person. And why not a person? Your imagination is not ultimate truth. We get information from Kṛṣṇa, there is a person, Vivasvān. So there is a person, he's sitting there. Person, globe, sun, sunshine. Which is important?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all. They don't want to see people very enlightened. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But at least how to become wise, that injunction has been given to you. Now you try to save the country, how to do it. These people will not be. You'll have to educate the people, and they'll vote you to the senators, president, and then your country will be nice. Just like by Kurukṣetra, Kṛṣṇa smashed all Duryodhana and company, and He posted Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to smash all these demons and have His own men posted on the royal throne. When Kali could not penetrate into the daily behavior of the people, he planned killing of Parīkṣit Maharaja. So, one Kali brāhmaṇa cursed him to death, for no fault practically. Therefore the brāhmaṇas of this age, they are condemned. The so-called caste brāhmaṇas, they're condemned. That is lamented by the father of the boy who cursed Parīkṣit Maharaja.
Devotee: Do you think, in a world so much caught up in material way of things... (indistinct) ...be able to penetrate?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is penetrating. Just like here in France, in your country, how these young men they are taking part unless it is penetrating?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not that. (laughs) That Kṛṣṇa was requested by His teacher that, when He was offering that "Now I am going home. What shall I present to you, guru-dakṣiṇā, giving to the guru?" So he requested, "Kṛṣṇa, I have heard that You are so powerful. I lost my two sons. If you bring them..." So Kṛṣṇa immediately went and brought them from within the ocean. This is God. Similarly, Devakī also requested Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, before Your birth I lost seven children. Your maternal uncle killed them. So I want... I have heard that You have returned back the sons of Your teacher. Why not my sons?" So He brought them. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa went to Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu, penetrating the covering of this universe. Arjuna also went with Him. You know that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. Kṛṣṇa...?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa went outside this universe, penetrating the sky. And Arjuna also accompanied Him. So it is Kṛṣṇa's power, He took His friend also. For ordinary human being it is not possible. But because Kṛṣṇa said that "All right, I'll take you." So He took him. This covering, universal covering, there are seven layers: earth, water, fire, air... Each layer is ten times bigger than the one layer. Then you go to the spiritual world.
Prabhupāda: You have to penetrate. You have to understand who has created this universe.
David Wynne: Yes. Yes. But if a great artist was no longer alive, people would still appreciate...
Prabhupāda: No, but the God is not like that, no longer alive.
David Wynne: No, but that's what I mean. The analogy falls down there, doesn't it.
Prabhupāda: God is not like that.
Śyāmasundara: But you're saying that it's better to first penetrate and understand God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He sees, but he has no eyes. These are the statements in the Vedas. He has no eyes... Just like we have got eyes, but we cannot see beyond this wall. But He can see everyone's heart, what he is thinking, what he is doing, everything. You cannot hide anything from His seeing. Paśyati. That is, that is His seeing. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. As soon as we hear something "seeing," immediately understand the relative term that one must have eyes to see. Then when the Vedas says acakṣuḥ, immediately warns that "Don't think God has got eyes like you." Because as soon as we think of eyes, we think of our eyes. We cannot think that there can be eyes which can penetrate everywhere. We cannot think of that. And therefore they become impersonalists. Because we rascals, when we think of God's personality, we think of our personality. "So we are imperfect. Therefore, how God can be person? He must be just opposite." Imperfect knowledge. They cannot think, these impersonalists, that God is person but all His bodily construction is perfect, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That Him they cannot think. That means poor fund of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: This matter which you are seeing, this is manifested. But there is material stock, unmanifested. A stock of water, stock of fire, stock of earth. Layer. This universe is covered by different layers, and each layer is ten times bigger than the other layers. That is unmanifested. That is unmanifested. Therefore vyakto 'vyaktāt. This, what we see, this is manifested, but the stock... Just like from the stock of your, I mean to say, stone and lime and cement and brick, you make a skyscraper building, manifested. But the stock is also there. Stock is also there. Similarly this manifested material world is there. It is taken from the stock. The stock is, a huge stock there is. We get information. Layer, the universe. And penetrating all these layers, we have to go to the spiritual world.
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavata there is that Kṛṣṇa took Arjuna, His friend, penetrating the layers to the spiritual world. He, He took him. You have read that in the Kṛṣṇa Book? There is... You have read?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So people have lost the intelligence in the Communist countries. They think that these government men, they have brought the bread, not God. In this way, they are gradually becoming atheist. But the central point is God. We are preaching the central point is God. You call Him by any name, it doesn't matter, either you call Jehovah or Kṛṣṇa or something, Allah, that doesn't matter. But you accept the authority of God and try to love God. This is our mission. And we say God is person. Impersonal feature, that is a feature only. Just like sun-god is a person and the sunshine is one of the feature of the sun-god. The sunshine is not final. You have to penetrate to the sunshine and reach the sun globe and go within the globe and see that there is the sun-god. But that requires strength how to enter into the sun globe and see this. But there is the information in the Bhagavad-gītā: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha (BG 4.1), "I first of all instructed this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." The sun-god is there in the sun planet, and if you have got strength, you can go there and see. But you cannot go, although it is material. So similarly, in the spiritual world there is the Supreme Spirit, Supreme Being, He is spiritual, concentrated, essence of light. That is ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8).
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oarsman, all of them are. Chief?
Amogha: The steersman or the pilot?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the chief man. So the guru is there. He is the chief man, giving direction, or the captain. And others are plying, and the boat is also strong, and the wind is also favorable. In this circumstances, if you cannot cross, then you make suicide. The śāstras are there. That is favorable wind. You get the way. And the spiritual master is directing, "Do like this." And you have got a nice boat and you are plying. Now cross over. Very big ocean in the material world. Just see the sky, how big it is. So we have to cross this material sky, penetrate the covering, then go to the spiritual sky. Then you are safe. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). That place, even after destruction of this whole material world, that is safe. So we have to go there, plying the boat. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "You rascal, give up everything. Surrender unto Me. And surrender unto Me. Follow My instruction as I have given. Then you are safe." But that they will not do.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally. So as soon as you make home, your interest will be at home. So that was their policy. In those days no Englishman was allowed to purchase property in India. All his income, money, should go to England. So the Mohammedan Moguls, they made their home in India. Therefore they stayed for eight hundred years. They would not have gone. Indians did not like to finish the Mohammedan kingdom. No, never. It is the Englishmen. They penetrated and finished them, not the Indians. Indians were not against the Mohammedans. They are going on. Little bit discrepancies were there, especially during the time of Auranzeb. He was bigot Mohammedan. He hated the Hindus. Not hated, but he was a, was is called, bigot, Mohammedan? He did not hate. That was not his qualification. Auranzeb gave many contributions to the Vṛndāvana temples. Yes. And Auranzeb's grandfather, Jahangir, he gave so many temples to many brāhmaṇas. There is one village just opposite Vṛndāvana, Keśīghāṭa, Jahangipura. This village was given to a brāhmaṇa. From the income he was maintaining a temple. And Auranzeb... You know Sringarpat Goswami?
| Page Title: | Penetration (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 29 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=11, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 11 |