Prabhupāda: So to simply to understand that "I am not this apartment" is not perfect knowledge. Then what is my position? What I am actually? When we come to that consciousness... At the present moment, I am conscious of this body, of this country, of this society, of the family. But when I perfectly understand that I am not any of these things, then my consciousness also changes because at the present moment my consciousness is absorbed with all these things. So as soon as I understand that I am not all these, then my consciousness must change, not that my consciousness will stop. If I am in misunderstanding, if I come to the right understanding, that does not mean my understanding is stopped. Rather, my understanding becomes purified. That means if I am not this, then I am this. That we do not know, what is that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So when we are freed from this illusory consciousness and if we are situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we get attachment.
Our consciousness (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"my consciousness"
|"our consciousness"
|"their consciousness"
|"your consciousness"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, that is prohibited.
Interviewer: What do you believe in?
Prabhupāda: We believe in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to purify. Just like this is also a belief, that you will be happy by drinking alcohol. That is your consciousness. I don't believe in that.
Interviewer: Do you have certain dietary rules for which you do not eat?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly.
Interviewer: What do you not eat?
Prabhupāda: They accept everything as Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, actually offering Kṛṣṇa, working for Kṛṣṇa, living for Kṛṣṇa. This is the best use. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "The best use of a bad bargain." Everything in Kṛṣṇa relationship. That is yukta-vairāgya. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Vairagya means detachment. So when we are attached to Kṛṣṇa, automatically we are detached to māyā. Not artificially we want to be detached from māyā. Just like theoretically I know that I am not this body, but the bodily necessities are there because I am encaged in the body. Therefore the bodily necessities-eating, sleeping, mating, defending-should be done in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is all right. Then my consciousness is always in Kṛṣṇa, and I am detached to my bodily demands. And those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, their bodily demands is on the materialistic platform. They are going on, increasing the degree of fever and coming to the 107 degree. You are also going tomorrow?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is very logical conclusion. As I am changing so many bodies, still I am there. I can understand that I changed my body. I was so little. Now I have grown up. I am old. But I am there. Similarly, it is concluded, when this body will not be there, but I will accept another body. This is very easy to understand, that that "I" is... Now, we can perceive that when you are spiritually emancipated, you will see yourself, God also, and everything spiritual. That requires time. That requires practice. And we are teaching our students that practice, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to change the consciousness. When you change your consciousness, you will see yourself, you will see God, everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. When you are in that spiritual platform, everything will be known to you. But before that, if you want to know, that is not possible. Yes?
Student (7): Do you use your body when you speak?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they were to go to see some other temple which is called Śeṣayī Temple. So although I was new man, I did not like to go to see the Śeṣayī Temple. I decided that "I shall hear." So at that time I was new, so all other, some of my important godbrothers, they were sitting like this, and I was sitting. At last, you see. But he knew that "This boy is new." Everyone has gone, all others except a few selected godbrothers. So he marked it that "This boy is interested to hear me." So hearing is very important. Hearing. Just like Arjuna heard from Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (People entering) (Break) ...because I was serious for hearing, and therefore now I am serious about kīrtanaṁ, means speaking, or preaching. Do you follow what I say? Yes. So one who is serious about hearing, he can become a future nice preacher. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ. Next stage is developed. That is development. If one has actually heard nicely, then he will speak nicely. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ. Then consciousness will automatically develop because when you speak or you hear, unless your mind is concentrated, your consciousness is right, you cannot rightly hear or speak. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam.
Prabhupāda: What is called? Lunatic, compact in thought. (chuckles) So Kṛṣṇa lover is also another kind of lunatic effect.
Allen Ginsberg: Except that it would mean concentrating all my consciousness on the one single image of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Not image.
Allen Ginsberg: Or the one single thought or name or feeling or awareness.
Prabhupāda: That we have got varieties of duties. Just like we are. You have seen all these boys. They are always engaged. Always engaged. Similarly, everywhere they are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa. We want extra time to work for Kṛṣṇa. The twenty-four hours is not sufficient for us. Yes. Then we shall see that we are sleeping, wasting time. Gosvāmīs, they used to sleep for one half-hour only. That also sometimes forgot.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Revatīnandana: Yes. He says because you can't see Him there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore matter means when our consciousness is covered to understand Kṛṣṇa, that is matter.
Śyāmasundara: I want to clear this up. Just like this table. It is full of millions of living entities, but there's not one...
Prabhupāda: Atom. Millions of atoms. But Kṛṣṇa says, "I am within the atom." So how you can say Kṛṣṇa is not there?
Revatīnandana: Now you were also telling me that Kṛṣṇa is in the atom as the jīva expansion.
Haṁsadūta: Well it reminds me of Janārdana. You know Janārdana was a big scholar and he was very intelligent, but he never produced very much. You remember Janārdana? So Maṇḍalībhadra is working full time. He never comes to the temple. Of course, he lives far away, but he never comes to the temple. And I know when a person doesn't come to the temple, it's very difficult for him to maintain, especially if he maintains a full time job. It has an imperceptible effect on your consciousness. And he also, you know, we sometimes, we don't see very much eye to eye. Like for instance, this coming Back to Godhead he wanted to produce, he wanted to put a picture of some of the... Like there's a picture in one of the old Back to Godheads of Vṛndāvana. So I said, "This picture is not good because Kṛṣṇa is not in this picture. There's no Kṛṣṇa. We must have..."
Prabhupāda: Old Vṛndāvana?
Śyāmasundara: Just like you were saying a while ago that if you were in God consciousness, you need not wear a robe. That's also our philosophy. It's very practical. But your consciousness would be always serving Kṛṣṇa, always serving God in whatever status of life. It isn't necessary to put on a robe first and then do like that.
Dr. Weir: But it helps some people.
Mensa Member: The soul is a very interesting concept, the soul as well, the fact that the soul is quantifiable, that it exists in a smaller part in the larger animals, and a higher part in a higher animals.
Śyāmasundara: No. It's the same size in all entities.
Mensa Member: Oh, it is, is it? But when we reach a point when we don't know whether there are living things or not, you know, the amino acids, and things like that or...
Dr. Weir: Well, I would take up that straight away, fundamentally, that it's perfectly correct to say it's the same size in every (indistinct) has no size.
Prabhupāda: No. It has size. We cannot measure it.
Prabhupāda: So that was Vedic civilization. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, everyone is expert, but every is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no bodily barrier. No. "Because I have got a particular type of body, therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is forbidden for me." No, that is not. In any body, any circumstances, you can cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But not material. But people, they do not know. They think that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no need, but let me improve my bodily comfort." This is called illusion. He cannot improve, even by an inch, the burden, but still... But you can improve, or you can purify, your consciousness. That is open to you, oh, irrespective of bodily (indistinct). And that is actually happening. You have got a different body from the before. (indistinct) But everyone, your taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa says, "It doesn't matter what kind of body you have got-low born, or high born, or this born or that born. I have no such restriction.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's fact. Just like if you are an animal of this land and if you are thrown into the water, you cannot be happy in the water in any condition. When you're again taken up to the land, then you'll be happy. Similarly, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot be happy without being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Now we are thrown. The same example. The machine part and parcel without the machine has no value. But when it is put again into the machine it has value. Similarly, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; we must join Kṛṣṇa. So you can join immediately with Kṛṣṇa by your consciousness. Simply thinking that "I am Kṛṣṇa's, Kṛṣṇa's mine." That's all.
Bob: What is that...
Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇa is mine."
Bob: Mind, yes.
Prabhupāda: "Mine. My Kṛṣṇa."
Guest (2): Will they be able to function in a society as working individuals?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is nothing prohibited. Simply you have to change your consciousness, that's all. We are also eating, we are also sleeping. Many of our students are householders; they have sex. So there is..., nothing is prohibited, but regulated for higher achievement. That is our program.
Guest (2): Have you asked the government for money? President Nixon?
Prabhupāda: No. What is the use of asking? Who will give me? Why shall I be refused? If you think this, this movement is serious, good, then you come forward. I cannot approach the government and the government says no. I don't think it is good for the government.
Guest (2): Do you see yourself then as the savior of American youth?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. It is saved already. Why? It is not future, it is present, practical.
Prabhupāda: Everyone should take it. This is the (indistinct). But if somebody thinks that "My aim of life is different. I don't care for God," that is a different case. But our philosophy is, this human life is especially meant for developing that God consciousness or to know the art how to love God. Because the animals, they cannot. I cannot preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy amongst the animals, because their consciousness is not so developed. But still, my movement is so perfect that I can do well even to the cats and dogs—by offering prasādam, by giving him chance to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This vibration is transcendental. When it is chanted it is good for everyone, all living entities. Therefore we go to the street and chant so that everyone can hear the transcendental vibration.
Prabhupāda: So in this conditional life we can never be happy, that's a fact. So we have to transcend this conditional life and again become engaged in our constitutional position. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now our consciousness is polluted. We are thinking different way. Just like a madman thinks that..., sometimes he says, "I am the king." He stands sometimes in the midst of the road: "Stop, I order you!" Does he not? Madman. (laughs) Nobody cares for him, but he says, thinks like that. Similarly, under the spell of this illusory energy, we are thinking differently. Somebody, I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking "Englishman," he is thinking "American." I am thinking "I am proprietor of this," I am thinking "I am the master of this." So many ways. These things are all madman's proposition, that's all. So this madness can go when we actually surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then we can understand things as they are.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama. The human society must be divided. Then, just like in this body there are four divisions—the head division, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division—all these are required for complete body. Although, by comparative study, head is the most important department, but still the leg is not... that we don't require leg. Leg is also required. Similarly, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they're required to function the society perfectly. That is varṇa. And similarly, for spiritual emancipation there must be the division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So unless you accept this institution perfectly you cannot develop your consciousness as perfect human being.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Everything is development of consciousness. So when one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness that is perfect. Consciousness is there even in the tree, but that is not developed. When you cut the tree, it feels. Even a child their consciousness is not developed. Sometimes operation in the body of a child does not require anaesthetic, because they do not feel much. Can go on surgical operation on the child's body and they will feel little. Because the consciousness is not developed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So according to the consciousness...
Prabhupāda: Development.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Body's circumstances association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. According to association, atmosphere, circumstances, the desires changes. So that is, desire means consciousness. Just like our boys, they had different consciousness before coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you are also scientist, there are other scientists. But your consciousness is different from theirs. Therefore you could challenge him like that. If you can create life by accumulation of these facts. He says that I do not know. He is not confident in his science.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is not experienced. He has not seen yet.
Prabhupāda: He is not above the defects, four defects of conditioned life. You know these four defects?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The material energy, it is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. The spiritual en... Kṛṣṇa Himself is spiritual energy. Exactly like that is. This weather is coming from sun but sun is covered. The weather created by sun makes himself covered; not himself covered, it is covering our eyes. Sun is not covered. My eyes are covered. Therefore material means when our consciousness is not developed. That's the meaning. It is somehow or other covered. That is material. Where is our scientist? They... The mistake of the scientist is that they do not accept two energies, the material and spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Creator is one. It is always superior. Whatever is created, that is created by Him. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). "I am the creator of everything." So bad or good, everything. Bad and good, that is your creation. Kṛṣṇa's creation everything good. God is good. What you think bad, for God is good. Therefore we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. He's doing something. In our consciousness it is bad, but we do not know that for him there is no such thing as good and bad. That we do not know. Kṛṣṇa is marrying 16,000 wives, somebody's criticizing, "Oh, He's so much fond of women." But we do not see the other side. He has got the power to expand Himself into 16,000 forms.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not eternal.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because I'm conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore your consciousness is being revived. Come to the standard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll be happy. That is our business. His consciousness is being misled by so many ways. Therefore we are trying to give him the standard consciousness, "Come to this point, you'll be happy."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: How to prove that the soul is eternal?
Prabhupāda: That is the first lesson. You do not understand? You are a child, now you're a grown up boy. Where is your childhood? Where is that body? Ha? The dead body does not exist but you are existing. That means you're eternal. Body has changed, but you have not changed. Circumstances have changed, but you have not changed. This is the proof of (indistinct). What do you want more? You may remember that I did yesterday these things, today I remember yesterday's activities, but your body of yesterday is not this body.
Śyāmasundara: ...as Prabhupāda was saying about the four rules and so many other activities. We may perform something on the surface, but the renunciation is there in our consciousness because we're giving everything to Kṛṣṇa as a service.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes. What about America? (Sound of glasses of water being poured)
Śyāmasundara: Oh yes.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: That's good. (?)
Devotee: Some water, Dr. Toynbee?
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No, thank you. And what about Japan? She's an Asian country, but has been very successful in the western way now.
Śyāmasundara: Well, we have two centers there also. Japan also, we have centers.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: I get the impression the Japanese are not very happy. They're very...
Prabhupāda: Nobody can be happy with this materialistic way of life. That is a fact.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Revatīnandana: I just met a gentleman who told me exactly that. Just a few min... He's a businessman here in London. He's about forty years old. And three months ago, he decided, because he learned, heard this from us, he decided to become a vegetarian. And a few weeks later, I talked to him. He said, "You know, it's amazing the difference in my consciousness." He says, "I have become a completely different man." Yeah, he told me that.
Prabhupāda: Well, yes...
Revatīnandana: And he's a very intelligent man. He's in the Mensa Society.
Prabhupāda: In the Vedic literature it is said the animal killers cannot understand God.
Reporter: (French)
Yogeśvara: Ah, oui?
Reporter: Oui. I've heard that... It's a mistake. And your movement, your consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, engloves, takes all the direction of economics and political possibility.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Reporter: Can you speak, explain me about that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our aim is realization of God.
Reporter: Yes.
Yogeśvara: (break) ...is studying the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the evolution, when our consciousness is in agreement with the supreme consciousness. (break) That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Yogeśvara: He says that the Rosicrucian order is a mystical and philosophical order that allows its students...
Prabhupāda: Who is Rosin? He is a philosopher?
Yogeśvara: He says that the term Rosicrucian means, it's an image of a cross with a rose in the center. It means that the disciple is aspiring towards the perfection of his consciousness and that this also means the perfection of consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So what is the ideal of that perfection of consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Then how can I accept it? I cannot enter into some vague thing.
Yogeśvara: All the systems have to do with meditation, concentration, things that will reawaken your consciousness.
Prabhupāda: What is the object of meditation?
Yogeśvara: (break) ...different objects, many different.
Prabhupāda: But tell one of them.
Yogeśvara: The body for example. (break) He says that there is "the eternal meditation number three."
Prabhupāda: So what is the number one?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you are educating your son for future life. So according to his education, according to his qualification, his future life will be fixed up. If he is properly educated he can become a very big man. And if he is not, he may not become. So this life is preparation for the next life. So this human form of life, if we are advanced in our consciousness then we should try to get our next life going back to home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Children, small children, they're just like animals. The cats and dogs, just they are playing, they're also playing like that. But he, he does not belong to that category because when he'll get..., he'll get another body in which he'll be intelligent. Another body, he'll be highly educated. Another body, he'll be doctorate. The cats and dogs, they'll have to wait to get that body. So with the body, we are changing our consciousness. So different body, different consciousness. Similarly, why not after death a different body, different consciousness? If you make progress. Yes. This is progressive. So that is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).
Prabhupāda: The newspaper is glorification of this mundane world. You have to transfer your consciousness to understand the glorification of the Supreme. This is transcendental literature. So people have got the tendency to read but they're glorifying this rascal, mundane rascals. So that attitude should be transferred to understand the glorification of the Supreme Lord. That will be (indistinct). That we are presenting. We are presenting a literature exactly like the newspaper. They are glorifying some Nixon and Dixon. We are glorifying Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. That is the difference. If Nixon has glorification, how much glorification is there in reserve of the Supreme Lord?
Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to understand the value of life. The modern system of education and civilization is so degraded that people have forgotten the value of life. Generally, in this material world everyone is forgetful of the value of life, but the human form of life is a chance to awaken the importance of life. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to the consciousness of self-realization, the foolish living entity, whatever he is doing is defeat for him. This defeat is going on in the lower species of life because they cannot understand what is the value of life. Their consciousness is not advanced. But even in the human form of life, the same defeat prolongs, that is not very good civilization. That is almost animal civilization.
Prabhupāda: But this tree's consciousness and my consciousness is different. My consciousness is developed. If you pinch on my body, my consciousness will be immediately protesting. But you cut, it will not protest. So consciousness is different. So there is nothing which has no consciousness, but it is a question of degree. It is a question of degree. The more the consciousness is covered, it is called material. The more the consciousness is developed, it is called spiritual. That is the difference between matter and spirit.
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, that verse in the Gītā, that nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ sthāṇuḥ. That verse in the Bhagavad-gītā that living beings are everywhere.
Prabhupāda: That's nice, that's nice.
Karandhara: The consciousness makes a difference.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: Your consciousness makes the difference.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: Because everything is in connection with God except for our own consciousness when we're in māyā.
Prabhupāda: Just like we are taking prasādam. How it is spiritual?
Yaśomatīnandana: It is offered to Kṛṣṇa.
Rūpānuga: They cannot tolerate it. Like the prisoner cannot tolerate being in the prison house without knowledge. They cannot get along.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So our consciousness is affected by our conditioning.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the perfect consciousness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like the yogis. They live in the Himalayas without any cloth. They take bath in ice water. They don't feel anything.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prajāpati: But is it true, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that sometimes the spiritual master has to suffer if his disciples act in sinful ways?
Prabhupāda: Because they are śūdras, like animals, they have got no brain to answer that "How all of a sudden there can be explosion." They have no brain even to ask. Rather, they are giving Nobel Prize. This rascal is speaking like a rascal, still, he should get Nobel Prize. That is the defect. The people at the present moment, they are all rascals. Just like animals. And yes, actually they are animals. Just like animals are eating, sleeping, mating, and eating meat. The other one animal is eating another animal. That's all. No discretion, nothing. This is a civilization of animals, polished animals. Their consciousness has become animalistic. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like children. They are animals, just like animals. They have no fixed program. Whatever they like, they are doing. Whatever they like, they are speaking. Simply they are interested in eating. So at the present moment, because they have lost all their power of reasoning and understanding, they are all animals. "All of a sudden there is an explosion." How explosion can take place like that?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He's also living entity. Why he's foolish, and why you are intelligent? What is the answer?
Gurukṛpā: Because the consciousness is more developed.
Prabhupāda: Then develop... So you develop your consciousness. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa.
Gurukṛpā: So I must be more fortunate than the other living entities in my body.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Gurukṛpā: The other living entities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is called, human life is so valuable. You are not cats and dogs. You have got the opportunity to understand God, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So this is our... because we are developing a different consciousness... Different... Consciousness is one, but it is being colored under different circumstances. And therefore we have to accept a similar type of body. So if our consciousness is cleansed, then we do not undergo the circumstantial changes by different species of life. That is required. In the human form of life we can do that, not to associate with the modes of material nature, but associate with God. That we can do. And if we associate with God, then we become liberated from the clutches of māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. And our real business is how to get out of the clutches of māyā.
Prof. Regamay: But I am struck that, for instance, for us in the West the idea of personal God is strongly rooted in our consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Jesus Christ, he was Vaiṣṇava. He directly gave you the idea of personal God. The personal God is the origin. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The... Just like, the same example: the sun god, the sun planet and sunshine, they are one. They are not different. But still, this is impersonal, that is localized, and within the sun globe, there is the sun god. So sun god is the origin of this light. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam (BG 10.8). That's the fact. But people with poor fund of knowledge they cannot understand it.
Prabhupāda: The consciousness is covered by impurity, just like your health is covered by disease, and the symptom is fever. But that is a covering. That is not your healthy state. Similarly, my consciousness, when I think that "I am American," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," "I am that," that is impurity. And when he thinks that "I am neither German, neither American, nor this nor that. I am part and parcel of God," that is pure consciousness.
Professor Durckheim: But in order to get there, to feel that one is neither this nor that, one must have suffered by first having thought that one is this or that.
Prabhupāda: That suffering is just like you suffer in the dream. You are attacked by a tiger. There is no tiger. Actually there is no suffering. But on account of ignorance, you are thinking, "The tiger is eating me."
Guest: There is a hierarchy of consciousness, of course, but it's not...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) if I try to develop my consciousness with designation, it will not be (indistinct) It will not be effective at least in the matter of advancing spiritual consciousness. That you have to see (indistinct). Now in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have got men from all parts of the world, but they are not thinking in terms of their original national designation. They do not think that they are American or Indian or so on, or Hindu, Gujarati(?), kṣatriya.
Guest: Of course there can be ambition that is essentially ego attached to an idea of achieving consciousness (indistinct).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the consciousness, my consciousness... The consciousness of those living cells are dependent on my consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, that consciousness is not developed. It is not equal to your consciousness. Just like a child's consciousness is not equal to your consciousness because he's not yet developed, similarly, this human life is the full-fledged... Not full-fledged. Almost full demonstration of consciousness. We have to utilize it for higher understanding. From material conditions, the consciousness develops. On account of loss of consciousness, they become godless. So it requires time. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is to help them to develop consciousness very quickly. Yes. Otherwise, it will take millions of years. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścit yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). We are helping people to develop that original consciousness very quickly. (break)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is this. Therefore I am particle; He is whole. Therefore difference. When God says, "I am," and I say, "I am," there is difference. I am particle "I am," and He is whole "I am." (laughter) Another, a millionaire says, "I am," and his servant says, "I am," but both the "I's" are same? So God is great. He says, "I am." He is great "I am." And I say, "I am." I am small "I am." Therefore this "I am" and that "I am" is different. This "I am," when I say, "I am," and God says, "I am," this "I am" and this "I am" is different. So not always I am the same. So far I am concerned, my identity, your identity is concerned, that is all right, one. But you "I am" and I "I am" not, different. The soul as soul, it is all right. But as particle, as whole, they are different. Yes, that is to be understood. God says, "I am," means "I am the whole." And I say, "I am"—"I am the particle." So therefore we should understand that when I say, "I am," and God says, "I am," they are different. (break) Your consciousness, your identification, my identification, my consciousness is different.
Prabhupāda: No, methods I have all explained. Kṛṣṇa bhakta means do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-śilānam (CC Madhya 19.167). Just like Arjuna did. He did not like to fight with his cousin-brothers, but after hearing instruction of Kṛṣṇa, he said, "Yes," naṣṭo mohaḥ, "my illusion is now over." Smṛtir labdhā: "I have got my consciousness." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: (BG 18.73) "I shall act as You are saying, that's all." This is Kṛṣṇa bhakta. We may have different decisions. That is natural. But when you agree to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have to agree. Kṛṣṇa does not force; He says, "Do this like this," and if we agree, then we are Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: So that consciousness should be without designation. If I try to develop my consciousness with designation, it will not be effective. It will not be effective at least in the matter of advancing spiritual consciousness. That we have to give up. Now in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have got men from all parts of the world, but they are not thinking in terms of their original national designation. They are not thinking. They do not think that they are American or they are Indian or Canadian or African or Hindu, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vai..., nothing of the sort.
Ambassador: Of course, there can be ambition that is essentially ego attached to an idea of achieving consciousness also.
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. You said that that should be our first point.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious movement means... It is very practical. Because our consciousness is now polluted... Just like water. Water, originally, crystal clear water. But as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes dirty, muddy. So our consciousness-originally clear, Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "Kṛṣṇa is my eternal master. I am eternal servant." This is real consciousness. Now, since we have come into this material world, we have made, instead of Kṛṣṇa, "My wife is my master, my society is my master, my country is my master, my political leader is my master," so many. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to purify the dirty things and then... So, to purify this, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleaning the mirror of consciousness, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is only way.
Prabhupāda: We should know that our consciousness is now polluted. The... Exactly like this: Clear water falls down from the sky, and as soon as come in contact with the ground, it becomes muddy. You can take the water again and filter, and then again clear. Again crystal clear.
Jayatīrtha: By nature water is clear.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: And sometimes it can become polluted.
Prabhupāda: And the whole devotional service means ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). That is the recommendation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, cleansing the dirty-politically, socially, communally, and internationally, nationally... In this way, it is all contaminated. So that, that is called upādhi, unnecessary. Just like water. You bring the colored water. That is contamination, not crystal.
Prabhupāda: Consciousness is the symptom of ātmā. Because the ātmā is within your body, therefore your consciousness is there. Now, because the ātmā is within the body, if I pinch or if you pinch my body, I feel pains and pleasures. As soon as the ātmā is not there, it will be cut with a chopper, there is no protest. So, that ātmā is present within this body, that is understood by the presence of consciousness. Just like we are here in this room, but this light is the reflection of the sunshine. We understand there is sun in the sky. The light and heat we are feeling, that means the sun is in the sky. Similarly, our consciousness and knowledge, etc., are there, that means that the ātmā is there. The same ātmā, when it will go out of this body, there will be no more consciousness, no more knowledge, no more feelings of pains and pleasures.
Prabhupāda: Ātmā is not coming into being, it is already there. But at the present moment it is accepting different types of bodies. Just like your this dress is available in the market. And you are also there, so you purchase the dress and put on. Similarly, the different types of bodies are already there. You according to your desire accept one type of body, and you appear in that body. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and you have to accept one of them. According to desire. According to your work. You are working. Everyone is working. Now, according to the work and association, he is creating his body. Just like if you infect some type of disease, then you'll have to accept that disease. So we are working ways—we are individuals—and according to that work we are creating our next body. If you are working in a godly way, then you'll get your body next as god, and if you are working in a dogly way, then you'll get your body as dog. So, by nature's way, evolution, we come through 800 millions of forms of life, then nature gives us a chance to accept this human form of body. In this body, our consciousness being advanced, if we try we can understand what is the problem of life, why we have accepted birth, death, old age and disease, how to get out of these, how to revive our original nature of body and again become eternal, full of knowledge and bliss.
Prabhupāda: Because Indian people, being subjugated for at least one thousand years, they have lost their original culture. And, being poverty-stricken, they are simply after money, by hook and crook. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayā apahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Persons who have lost their consciousness on account of being too much attached to material enjoyment, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I thought that America, they have enjoyed enough of this material happiness, money and women, and they are now becoming disappointed. So they are at least on the platform of renunciation. They don't want any more like their fathers and grandfathers. Of course, they are not guided. Therefore I preferred to go there to guide them. So almost fifty percent of my devotees are, they are collected from these disappointed persons, young men. They are going astray. So they appreciate that I have saved them.
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the doctor's first question that he brought up that although we are conscious, our consciousness seems to be affected by different material arrangements. There's one philosopher William James, who is like the father of psychology. He says the same thing that consciousness can be affected by removing the material elements. So that is simply the arrangement of the modes of nature?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The same three guṇas. If you contact with tamo-guṇa, then your consciousness is tamo-guṇa. Tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, sattva-guṇa, and if your consciousness is always with Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not talking of foster; we are talking of real father. How do you know your real father?
Dr. Crossley: You've grown up with him. You've known him since you were a little child. It's part of your consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So if my consciousness is not right, then I may select a wrong father.
Dr. Crossley: Well, just because you know he's your father, there's still more to know about him. There's more and more to understand.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is not possible. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). You have to cleanse the mirror of your consciousness, then the reflection will be properly viewed. If you keep it dirty, then it is not possible. Therefore we require first-class men to understand this philosophy, not the fourth-class man. If you keep him fourth-class man, it is not possible.
Devotee (2): We are giving these books to so many common men. Then the books will attract them to perhaps chanting and following the regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: We are trying to be happy in this material world. That is not possible. Because here there are four principles of miserable condition, which we cannot avoid. They are birth, death, old age and disease. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as birth, death, old age, and disease. Therefore in this life, in the human form of life, where we come after evolutionary process, 8,400,000 species of life, our consciousness being developed, we should decide now whether we shall remain within this material world or we shall go to the spiritual world where the life is eternal. There is no birth, death, old age and disease. So the Vedic civilization trains all human being how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is Vedic civilization. We cannot be happy in this temporary material life. We are working very hard, but if we work a little only, not very hard, there is no need of working very hard. We have created a civilization that we have to work very hard.
Prabhupāda: That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Although Arjuna is... Birth after birth, he is friend of Kṛṣṇa, nitya-siddha. Still, he forgets, what to speak of others. Bahūni me janmāni tava cārjuna. That means, "We are friends always. So you also appear; I also appear. But the difference is you forget; I don't forget. That is difference between you and Me. You also don't forget. That is for limited time. But the consciousness is the same. Only difference is that My consciousness is unlimited; your consciousness is limited. That is difference." This understanding is ahaṁ brahmāsmi. My consciousness and Kṛṣṇa's consciousness, that is fact. But Kṛṣṇa's consciousness is everywhere; my consciousness is within myself. That's all. The Māyāvādī interprets, yena sarvam idaṁ tataḥ: "One who is expanded everywhere, pervaded." But I am not pervading everywhere.
Prabhupāda: How you become one? If Kṛṣṇa or the consciousness is there but you lose your consciousness, why you become one?
Harikeśa: Well, it's not exactly that we lose consciousness but we merge into the supreme consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Supreme consciousness?
Harikeśa: Then we become God.
Prabhupāda: No. You cannot. Then why you are different now?
Harikeśa: It's my līlā. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Still, vijñāna means jñāna and viveka. Viveka means personal conviction. That is called vijñāna. Jñāna and vijñāna. One knowledge you get from me, and then you practically apply your consciousness that "Yes, what Prabhupāda has said, it is right." That is called vijñāna. One knowledge, accepting blindly from the authority, that is knowledge. But how it is practically made or done, that understanding is called vijñāna.
Devotee (2): We have so many examples of...
Prabhupāda: Give that example. That I wanted.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So what is that question? Which part?
Reporter (1): Which particular teachings you think can purify a man? Because you said the salvation lies in practical teachings of Gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to revive your consciousness that you are part and parcel of God. And the part and parcel of God means to serve God. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, but it is meant for serving my body. I ask the finger, "Come here"; it is serving me. "Come here"; it is scratching. "Pick up the food. Give it to me"; he is giving it. This is business of the finger. If the finger cannot carry out my order, then it is diseased. And if he immediately carries out order, then it is healthy. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, we must be ready to give service immediately. Then it is healthy condition.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: So then...
Prabhupāda: Animal life means there is no sin. It is promotion. Because they are animal, their consciousness is not developed. Just like a child—a child, if he steals, that is not sin. He will not be criminally charged. He is child. A dog goes left to the right or right to the.... He is not criminal. But if you do, you are criminal.
Rāmeśvara: So Yamarāja does not direct the movements of the living entities as they are going automatically from animal body to higher body.
Prabhupāda: An animal is not jurisdiction of Yamarāja. The man is in the jurisdiction of.... Just like law is meant for man, not for the cats and dogs.
Jagadīśa: Is it possible, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will, in the future, turn the tide and gain predominating influence? Change...
Prabhupāda: Thing is that if the leaders of the society, they come to their consciousness, that this way the society cannot be peaceful, the way they are now conducting.... If they have brain.... Just like the other day, the Christian priest. He was speaking of disabled men. You were present? I challenge you: what do you mean by disabled man? If one man has lost his arm, can you supply it? Then he stopped.
Hari-śauri: He was finished when you told him it was all imaginary.
Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. What you can do?
Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animals, they can inquire where is some food, where is some stool. That much. They have no other power. But when one becomes..., gets this machine of human form of body... The Vedānta axiom is "Now it is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, prakṛti-jān guṇān.
Rūpānuga: Yes. So I am identifying with my body in any mode, that is false ego. But my consciousness is contaminated by a particular mode. May be passion, may be ignorance, may be goodness. So then my consciousness is contaminated. So false ego is the base of all material activities, but I may be acting in a certain mode, contaminated in a certain way. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rūpānuga: That is what it means.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everything clear, these four internal subtle senses?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: But you are living in a spiritual planet here?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, this planet is part of the material universe, but because our consciousness is Kṛṣṇa conscious, or God conscious, practically we are not affected very much by the conditions of the material world. Just like one of the conditions is fearfulness of death. But because we're...
Prabhupāda: I can give one example. Just like royal throne. The king is there, and a bug is there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On a royal throne there's a king...
Prabhupāda: And the bug.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hari-śauri: To enter into a city is so imposing on your consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Up to that point, simply rubbish, all papers thrown here and there. People are living in... Now see here, how it is open and pleasing. Organize this farm project. Farm. (background talking)
Hari-śauri: He's just saying that in the West one requires a great deal of capital. To start a farm, to get the land, you need a lot of money because land is very expensive. And also we have to use modern farming techniques because we have so few men to run the farms.
Rāmeśvara: They will not be so envious if they see that people who dress in Western style and keep their families and keep their jobs are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: We say... We say that, that we simply say, that "You change your consciousness."
Rāmeśvara: Not change your dress, but change your consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, we never said. If you prefer that kind of dress, costly, you prefer it, but we are simplified.
Rāmeśvara: It's our choice.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is the instruction. And the child decides it that "Whatever my parent says, that's all I shall do. I shall do nothing," then he's safe.
Satsvarūpa: "My only wish is to have my consciousness purified by the words emanating from his lotus mouth."
Prabhupāda: Then he's safe. And as soon as he manufactures—finished. So don't do this. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā... (ŚU 6.23). This is the secret of spiritual success. Vṛndāvana, there are so many dangerous. All these bābājīs, they are... "Oh, I am not going out of Vṛndāvana." But he has got connection with so many women. So what is the use? Have you experience of this? He's attached to women and doing all sinful activities in Vṛndāvana, and he's a devotee. "He cannot go out of Vṛndāvana." This is going on, manufacturing biḍi, smoking biḍi, in the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī, loincloth, big tilaka, kaṇṭhi, and what he's doing? Biḍi-making. Have you seen?
Prabhupāda: I have heard that still he is keeping, "I am devotee of Kṛṣṇa," still, in this fallen condition. How (indistinct). Take this. (break) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. It is great ocean of such glory. Tad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Now it is again possible for us to think, to act. Our senses have regained their consciousness, enabling us to expand the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by selling more..." (break) He says, "We pray that your health may continue for years to come so you may conquer the whole world by your pure devotion and you may continue to bless us more and more so that we may be instrumental in this work. I am your puppet. You are controlling the strings. Make me dance as you like. I am simply awaiting the tugs of your lotuslike hands upon my strings. I would like to make a report of the activities here. Eastern Europe..." (break)
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And above all, our whole program here is completely transcendental. It's just like Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī said. Your consciousness is so sublime that it's just wonderful at every moment to be with you. I mean, although I wish that you were... We all wish that you were completely healthy, yet at the same time we have never experienced so much nice exchanges with you. I mean we all... Every moment is so relishable to be with you. So I mean, even this puzzlement is very transcendental. None of us see any of this in any kind of a mundane view. It's all due to your consciousness being so Kṛṣṇa conscious, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean to me this puzzlement is simply another proof of the existence of Kṛṣṇa, 'cause Kṛṣṇa certainly is not puzzled. It seems like everything is happening according to His plan.
| Page Title: | Our consciousness (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 20 of May, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=65, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 65 |