Material activities (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"Material Activities" |"Material Activity" |"material action"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Guest: But why, why are they trying to transcend material, transcend material nature? Who is doing these miracles? Or why try to do (indistinct) Why should human beings try to do (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: No. The yoga practice is like that. It is very good, that "Why we should bother ourself with such things?" That is the opinion of the devotees. The devotees, they do not want any such miracles to perform or to make some jugglery to the people. They are satisfied with the service of the Lord. So that is the position of the devotee. But generally, the yogis, they want such things. There are many instances of great yogis in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, just like Durvāsā Muni. He wanted to show his power to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. That's a very nice story. I shall narrate next meeting. The yogis, everyone, yogis... Yoga practice is, therefore... It is more or less material activity. Because when they are powerful to show some miracles and people become captivated, "Oh, he is performing such miracle thing."

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: So without person there cannot be any question of love. Therefore the section who believes in person... Not believing, they know actually what He is, and there is method how to love that person. The example is given: just like the sun and the sunshine and the predominating Deity in the sun globe, similarly, one who comes to the light, he first of all sees the sunshine. That is impersonal. Then, if he goes further, if he is able to go to the sun planet, that is localized. And if he can enter into the sun planet and see the predominating deity there, then he is a person. So this is a vast science. People are too much engrossed with material activities. They do not try to understand actually what is the position of Absolute Truth, what is the position of the soul. Practically in the present day they are more or less animalistic. Just like animal does not know anything beyond eating, sleeping, mating and defending, similarly, the modern civilization is too much busy for increasing the method of eating and increasing the process of comfortable life or sleeping, and increasing the matter of, method of sexual life, or increasing the method of defense. So these things, are found even in the animals. They also eat, they also sleep, they also have sex life and they also defend in their own way. So human life is not limited within these four walls. He has to understand what he is, what is this world, what is this creation, what is God, how it is going on. But they are neglecting that fact. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness will give information to this department of knowledge.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: That is for the voidist, not for the spiritualist. The spiritual life there is enough activity for even scientists. That they do not know. They mean spiritual life is void. That is negation of the present activities only, negative idea. But actually when you stop material activities your real activity begins. That is spiritual life. The spirit, spirit soul is active. You cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. Now it is acting through the coverings of material, matter, therefore it is imperfect activities. But if the activity is uncovered by material things that is real activity.

Mensa Member: But aren't desires biological in cause?

Dr. Weir: They're necessary.

Mensa Member: Yes, but they're biologically necessary rather than spiritually necessary.

Dr. Weir: Well, may I say, let's go farther, that when you say biologically necessary, is it necessary for you to be alive? What scientific...

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No. Why... the same language, the same language.

Dr. Weir: Well you won't get very far in any form of philosophy...

Mensa Member: (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: But the consciousness in which something is done denotes it. For instance, I could be sweeping the street. Someone would think, "Ah, I'm just a material street sweeper." But if I'm doing it for Kṛṣṇa it's a transcendental activity, it's a spiritual activity, not a material activity.

Dr. Weir: Ah, yes, but I mean, then you have a, if somebody else who's sweeping faster and better, you say that he's greater spiritually even if he's doing it...

Śyāmasundara: No.

Prabhupāda: No, the purpose must be spiritual, the purpose must be for Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: So if we're speaking about Kṛṣṇa then our words become spiritual.

Dr. Weir: Yes, but I think if you're talking about spiritual things you mustn't try and quantify it.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual means it has no material qualification. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No. So good karma means performance of the yajñas as they are prescribed in the Vedic literature. And this purpose of this yajña is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. Just like good citizen means one who satisfies the government. Law-abiding. Good citizen. Similarly, good karma means who satisfies Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord. Unfortunately, the modern civilization, they do not know what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and what to speak of satisfying Him. They do not know. They are simply busy in material activities. Therefore, all of them are doing only bad karma, and therefore they are suffering. They are blind men and leading some other blind men. And both of them are expanding the path to hell by bad karma. Bad karma, you suffer. That is very easy to understand. If you do something criminal, you'll suffer. If you do something benevolent for the state, for the people, then you are rewarded, you are recognized, you are given title. Sometimes shot. This is good and bad karma. So... (microphone noise) ...some material happiness, and bad karma means you suffer from material distress. By good karma you get birth in good family, janma. You get riches, good money. Then you become learned scholar, you become beautiful also. Sit down. There is some trouble with your leg? What is that?

Devotee: There is an infection in this ankle.

Conversation in car -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Sudāmā: Yes. The attracting cover of a Back to Godhead magazine, done so nicely, and the presentation and the devotees there—a man is just inclined, "Yes, let me see. Let me see what it's about." (break) (new sequence-Prabhupāda sings hari hari biphale in the car)

Prabhupāda: We say that in whatever occupation you may be, try to find out some time and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our preaching. So it will help you. At least you will get, even if you are attached to the material activities, you will get next birth a human body, rich family, another chance, or Vaiṣṇava family. That is also great benefit. Even there is no salvation, but he gets opportunity again. (sings another line) So Karandhara Prabhu, what advantage you will get by opening their office there?

Karandhara: Well, all of the communications can be done with the liaison officer. He'll have a telex, so I won't have to wait for two weeks to get a letter back. I'll just speak with him, and he can telex. And we can save the money we're spending now on telex. And sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's hard for them to understand my English and it's hard for me to understand their English. It takes a little elaboration. So if there's a person there to speak with and he can speak with them in Japanese and with me in English, it's simpler.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, there will be a great many advantages, but they have to expend for that service. They will expect some more business. That will... We think we shall be able to give him.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it will go to the category of anyābhilāṣitā, material desire-jñāna, karma, yoga, (indistinct). And bhakti is so pure that it has nothing to do with material activities or speculative, or mystic yoga, it has nothing to do. Just like gopīs. Anyā... They had nothing to do with all this nonsense, karma, jñāna, yoga. They are neither yogīs, nor very learned scholar, Vedāntist, nor very good businessmen, economist, simple boys and girls. But their devotion is exalted. Because they did not know anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is their love(?). Never mind to know that Kṛṣṇa is God or not, it doesn't matter. Then they don't, they didn't care for God also. Gopīs, when they say Nārāyaṇa, "Oh, He's Nārāyaṇa." (laughter) (indistinct) Nārāyaṇa, they have nothing to do with Him. They are searching after Kṛṣṇa and when Kṛṣṇa presented Himself as Nārāyaṇa, four-handed, they neglected. And before Rādhārāṇī, He could not remain as Nārāyaṇa. Automatically He handed (indistinct). (laughter) Hands are folded. So our idea is Vṛndāvana. So our love for Kṛṣṇa should be so strong that we don't care for anything. But for preaching if somebody challenges, yes, we are prepared to talk. That is authority. That is uttama-adhikārī. His love is Kṛṣṇa, enormous, but not sentiment. If anyone wants to talk with him, "Yes, come on," That is uttama-adhikārī, mahā-bhāgavata. So this is the position. Now something is in your hand—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That was my plan that I shall carry this baggage and give it to the Americans and they will distribute. That was my plan, therefore I came to America. So now you are so many boys, young boys, you have understood. So do it and give me relief. I remain in the background.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Simple life, simple life, innocent life... Because after all, we have to give up this material world. If we become attached, then we'll have to take birth again. Nivṛtta-tarṣair... There is another verse quoted by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is very difficult, but there is possibility. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajana, those who are eager to go back to home, back to Godhead... Pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. On the other side of this material world. For him... Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca, hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu (CC Madhya 11.8). For such person to be attracted by these material things is not good. It is suicidal. So material things, viṣaya, simply increasing the method of eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. This is material activity.

Guest (8): Defense?

Prabhupāda: Defense. Defense means... Just like we have discovered atomic bomb for defending. This is also material activities. So it requires time to learn. But one thing is, the beginning should be, as far as possible, our life should be sinless. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. "Anyone who is completely freed from all sinful activities." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. "And always engaged in pious activities, such person can become devotee." Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 7.28). "He becomes free from the duality of this world, and becomes fixed-up in My service." So this is the condition, that yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. Without being sinless, nobody can understand what is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavad-bhajana. Therefore this is the beginning of sinless life: no intoxication, no illicit sex... If you can, if somebody avoids these things, he does not die. It is simply a little practice. He's practiced to all these bad habits, and if he likes, he can give it up. It is not difficult. And this is tapasya, little tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13).

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So he wanted to stop these material activities. Jagan mithyā. Śaṅkarācārya never advocated for nationalism, for starting schools or college, hospital... Never. Why? Why should he do? If we say jagan mithyā, then why should we bother all these things?

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So who is following Śaṅkarācārya? And they say that "We are followers of Śaṅkarācārya." And they are engaged. Śaṅkarācārya follower means he must become first of all sannyāsī, then talk anything else. So who is taking, going to do that?

Reporter: And all those Śaṅkara Maṭha and Śaṅkarācārya's various places in India, don't live as jagat was mithyā. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, jagan mithyā... We don't say jagan mithyā.

Reporter: No.

Prabhupāda: We Vaiṣṇavas, why should I say jagan mithyā? If God is true, what is created by Him, that is also true. Because Kṛṣṇa says bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Me, "My." So why should I take Kṛṣṇa's things as false? If Kṛṣṇa is true, His things are also true. So we don't take that this material world is false. We don't say. Our philosophy is that this material world may be temporary, but because it has connection with Kṛṣṇa, it can be used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. That is karma-yoga, bhakti-yoga. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Just like here is a microphone in the tape recorder.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I've seen Jawaharlal Nehru, Pantha(?)... They stuck to their position up to the point of death. Neither did they know that there is necessity of vairāgya. But Vedic philosophy says... All the ācāryas, they're all vairāgīs, either Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, they're all sannyāsīs. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All vairāgīs. Even Jesus Christ, he was a vairāgī. Even Lord Buddha, vairāgī. This is required, but where is the vairāgya? They're simply attached to these material activities, and they're talking of high, high things. Their preliminary things is not finished, vairāgya. This is the first stage, vairāgya, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra (SB 11.2.42).

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

(Brs. 1.1.11)

That is sarva-dharmān parityajya. This is vairāgya.

Reporter: Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya means vairāgya (BG 18.66).

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much for your coming. I have read some of your ideas. So from your writing it appears you are nice, thoughtful man. Muni, the Sanskrit word is muni. Just like Nārada Muni. They are very thoughtful. So I have read one description of, "Crisis of Increasing Motor Cars," in this paper. Actually, we are creating a crisis. This advancement of modern civilization is simply creating crisis. One Vaiṣṇava poet, he has sung: sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye vilāsa. Sat-saṅga means spiritual association. So we have given up spiritual association, and asatye vilāsa, we have taken to material enjoyment. So sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu... There are two things, material and spiritual. So sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye... "I have given up spiritual association, and I have taken to material association. Therefore I have become entangled." Sei karaṇe lāgilā mora karma-bandha-phāṅsā. We are becoming more and more entangled in material activities. We are trying to solve one problem, and creating another big problem. Just like I was reading the "Motor Car Crisis." We thought that with a horseless carriage it will be very convenient to travel. But against that convenience, so-called convenience, we have created so many inconveniences. It is very nicely described in that paper I was reading.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm. "Cars, Profits and Pollution." I was just reading this article. "Cars, Profits and Pollution." So this one side, we make profit, another side, we make pollution. This is the material, result of material activities. Whatever you do. Anything you do material, it is same. In one side, you see, "Oh, there is so much profit," and another side, you'll see so much pollution. Therefore the remedy is to act for spiritual realization. Then you will avoid pollution. The remedy is. If you... That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Third Chapter, how we can work for spiritual realization and avoid the pollution of material activities. This is the sum and substance of Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, we do not avoid the material activities, but we become free from the material pollution. This is the secret of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Popworth: How do you envisage one should act, if I may ask that?

Revatīnandana: He said, how do you envisage that one should act. How should one act? He's asking.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: How? That you do not know. You'll have to realize when you give us the chance. But if you give us the chance, there is no loss on your part. But you'll practically see how it is rectified, how it is...

Vicitravīrya: Pollution is to some extent a result of materialistic activity?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vicitravīrya: The pollution, is it to some extent the result of material activity, which will cease when the spiritual...

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many things. What is material activity, what spiritual activity is. These are to be understood. But we are sure, if simply this chance is given, anywhere, let us execute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and speaking something from this Bhagavad-gītā. We are getting practical result. Just like you were describing, that in communist country.

Haṁsadūta: Ah...

Prabhupāda: You just explain to them.

Haṁsadūta: They have a big youth festival there in East Berlin. Maybe you know? "The Festival of Youth."

Popworth: Yeah.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because the process is devotion, bhakti. Bhakti means not idle. Activities. Bhakti is not idle gossip. It is something, activity. Therefore karmīs sometimes misunderstand that they are working like us. So where is the... what does it mean, bhakti? Just like Arjuna is fighting. But ordinary man will see that he's a soldier, he's fighting. What is this bhakti? But Kṛṣṇa certifies: "Yes, you are My devotee." By fighting, he's devotee. Because he's fighting for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is bhakti. Similarly, by the order of Kṛṣṇa, whatever you do, that is bhakti. Karmīs cannot see. Karmīs see... (break) ...tiki, laukikī, vaidikī. Laukikī means material activities. And vaidikī means according to Vedic instruction. Whatever you do, if it is done for Kṛṣṇa, then it is bhakti.

Yogeśvara: Laukikī and vaidi...?

Prabhupāda: Laukikī. Laukikī means ordinary, common activities. And vaidikī means Vedic. Just like a man is doing business as motorcars. So he has to do business as other motor car dealers do. So this is laukikī. It is not vaidikī. In vaidika instruction, there is no such thing, that "You do motor business like this." Therefore it is laukikī. So either laukikī or vaidikī, if it is done for Kṛṣṇa, it is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa also says: yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad... (BG 9.27). Yat karoṣi means whatever you do,... "Whatever" means the activity must be laukikī or vaidikī. "Whatever." There is no restriction, that only vaidikī. No. Even laukikī. Whatever you do. Find out this verse: yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi tapasyasi yat.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is already there. When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is already there. When we speak of Vṛndāvana, Vṛndāvana is already there. It is not that we have manufactured some picture, imagination, no. They take it like that. The rascals take it like that, that it is a kind of imagination of the poet. The Māyāvādī philosophers also take like that. But that's not the fact. It is actually presentation of the spiritual facts and as the spiritual activities are quite different from material activities, they misunderstand. They misunderstand.

David Lawrence: Yes. It's one of the interesting features was, of this little bit about Lord Caitanya was in fact that he claimed Him to be pathological.

Prabhupāda: Just like...

David Lawrence: You know the manifestations obviously of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and kīrtana and so on. Seems to be obviously you regard as a scurrilous or wrong-headed or a dull-headed field of people who regard His manifestations of God consciousness as verging on madness, or temporary madness. What would you say about that. Obviously you would reject it.

Prabhupāda: When a man is himself mad, he'll find others mad.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These are the processes to become perfect. Tapasā. First thing is tapasya. And nobody's prepared to undergo tapasya. And human life is made for tapasya. Therefore in Vedic civilization, you'll find tapasya. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, they were all engaged in tapasya. Rājarṣi, devarṣi. Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa, at the age of twenty-four years, he gave up his young wife, children, and went for tapasya. Tapasya is the life of the human being. Not to live like cats and dogs. That is not human life. Restrained. Tapasya. But here there is no, at the present moment, there is no question of tapasya. Even one is ninety years old, he's still engaged in these material activities. Even a person like Gandhi, unless he was killed, he would not give up politics. The material activities are so palatable for the materialists, that even up to the point of death... In Bengal, there was a big zamindar. So his father, er, his sons asked him at the time of death, "Father, what we can do for you, last desires?" So he expressed that "That man is my enemy. If you can bring him here and beat him with shoes, I'll be very much satisfied." This is material world. Even at the time of death, he's thinking enmity with others. And he will, he wanted to be happy that "If you bring that man and beat him with shoes, I'll be very happy." The other day somebody said that one man was cut into two, and he was asked, "What do you want?" He said, "Give me a cigarette." (laughter) This is the position.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: "What is the wrong there?" Even if he has fallen down, half-way, still there is no wrong. He has gained something. That much service which he has already given to Kṛṣṇa, that is recorded. That is recorded. That is to his credit: "So this living entity has given service." But other men, he's very honestly living as a good citizen, as a good family member and good brāhmaṇa, good kṣatriya... So ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. He's sticking to his own principle of life, but he's not a Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee. Then what is his gain? He'll simply take the fruits of his material activities and he'll have to accept another body according to that. But here, as it is assured in Bhagavad-gītā that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41), this man, who took by sentiment Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but could not follow it to the end; by some way or other, he has fallen but he'll be given chance to take birth as a human being, guaranteed, in rich family, or in nice devotee family, yogi family or brāhmaṇa family. So he'll be given chance. But that man will take only the reaction of his activities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So if he has acted like cats and dogs, he'll get the cats and dogs. But here it is guaranteed, here it is guaranteed that he's going to get another human body and very nice family.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Give up your material activities and engage yourself in spiritual activities. That is mukti. Just like a man in diseased condition, he is acting. He is also acting. He is also passing stool, passing urine, eating something, lying down, talking. He has got activities. But that activities and when he is free from the disease, that activity is different. Similarly, if you change your activity, you can become mukta even in this life. That is mukti, real mukti. Muktir hitvānyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). If you give up your diseased conditional activities... Just like these boys who are in Kṛṣṇa, they are muktas, because they are not interested with any material activities. They are not interested to read in the morning any newspaper. No. They cannot waste their time in that way or take part in politics. No. They are simply interested in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and reading these books. Therefore they are muktas. They are all liberated. Because hitvānyathā-rūpam. Other people, they are reading newspaper, doing all nonsense, but they are not interested. The anyathā-rūpam. That is material business. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Svarūpa means jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Every living entity is eternally Kṛṣṇa dāsa. So if you give up these material activities and engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa's service, you are mukta. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "Stop this business." Suppose a business is not going very nicely. It is going at loss. Somebody says, "Close it." But one experienced man comes: "Why should you close? All right, I shall do it properly. You'll get profit." So who is better? One, by disappointment, he says, "Close this business. There is no profit." And another man says, "No, don't close it. We shall make you profit. We shall show you profit. Just manage it properly." This is our proposition. We don't say that "Stop all these material activities." No. Just do it properly so that you get real profit and real benefit. That is our program. We don't want to make it zero, no. Why shall I make it zero? (break) ...can be taken just like there is business, but the workers, the assistants, they have no idea who is the proprietor. So everyone is doing something, taking pocket, something this, take pocket, his pocket, so how the business will go on nicely? That is being done. Everyone, these rascals, they have no idea who is the proprietor of this world. So they are doing in their nonsensical way. Therefore there is confusion. The business is not profitable. But if they accept, "No, the real proprietor is such and such gentleman, so he wants to do us like this," then the business will be profitable. Everyone is thinking that he is proprietor, so how this business will profit? This is the position. Everyone is thinking that he is the proprietor. He forgets that he is worker.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Here is electric light also. So what is the benefit? Light, you have got so many lights. So what is the benefit? If you remain in the darkness, then what is the benefit of this light? Light means you are not in darkness. But you are in darkness. If you have got the light, then you can see Kṛṣṇa. But why do you say that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness we cannot see Kṛṣṇa. Rascal. We may not see. But you have seen the light, why don't you see Kṛṣṇa? Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa if you have seen Kṛṣṇa?

Hṛdayānanda: It's true, Prabhupāda. They are in darkness because they cannot check their material activities by seeing the light. They go on with sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Light. We have go so many lights. What is the benefit of seeing the light?

Jayatīrtha: They only call us so that we'll arrange to bring some prasādam.

Prabhupāda: They do not supply prasādam, these rascals? (break) Everyone can see. So if Guru Maharaji is light, then why everybody does not follow? If he is light, light can be seen by everyone. Just like sunlight, moonlight, we can see. Everyone can see.

Hṛdayānanda: They argue that he only will reveal himself to those who surrender to him.

Prabhupāda: But those who have surrendered, they cannot speak anything. They are in darkness. When we talk with your disciple who has surrendered, they cannot argue with us. They are in darkness. So what kind of light he has seen?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Not all of you, but some of you must be, must learn the art of fighting also. But in a practical you are not going to fight. If required, you can fight. I say that we are above all these varṇāśrama, but we must train others or ourself also for material activities, everything, under these divisions.

Viṣṇujana: For example, in New Vrindaban we have brāhmaṇas that are very expert at tilling the soil and taking care of cows.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Viṣṇujana: And they could travel around and teach others how to do that as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's right. He is brāhmaṇa, but he's teaching how to take care of the cows and ploughing.

Hṛdayānanda: It's not that one teacher has to teach everything.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Hṛdayānanda: Oh, I see. So a brāhmaṇa teacher should become expert in a particular subject and then teach that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have spoiled your life simply in material activities. How you can remember?

Dr. Patel: But even if you are doing material activities by your body, and by your mental activities you are bhaja kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: But you are under the body... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Body and mind is working... Unless you practice to be above body and mind... That is bhakti-yoga. Māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yoga..., sa guṇān samatītya. You cannot expect that you go on doing all these material activities and at the time of death you'll remember Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: That can't be done.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Chandobhai: Should be a real concentrated difference

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So they are trying to get that siddha, the perfection, by so much yogic process, but another living entity, without understanding any yogic process, can do that. So these things are not very great gains. There are... In different planets there are different living entities. Just like we cannot touch fire, but in the sun globe there are also life, human beings, but their body is made of fire. Just like in the water. I cannot go into the water, but there are so many small fishes, they are living very nicely. So this we do not know. We are trying to gain success in these material activities, but by God's will, there are different living entities. They have already all the successes. So therefore our real business is not to waste our time to get any material success. Our real business is how we shall be successful to become an obedient servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is real success.

Dr. Patel: Shall I go ahead?

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Let me explain this. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered benediction, "Now you take benediction." So he said that "Where is benediction? I have seen my father was so powerful materially that even the demigods, they were frightened. So even if I get certain material successes, but you can finish it within a second. So why shall I take all these benedictions? Please engage me as the servant of your servant. That is my success."

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if continuously... That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If you continuously remain yourself, thinking of Kṛṣṇa, smārtavyaḥ satato viṣṇu vismārtavyo na jatucit. This is the process: You have to think of Kṛṣṇa always. The yogis and others, they artificially, for a certain time, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes or half an hour, they think of Kṛṣṇa by meditation, and they engage again in the material activities. But here...

Dr. Patel: The yogis have got difficulty... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...helpful to bhakti.

Dr. Patel: That is why they are... I am getting sidetracked.

Prabhupāda: They think that these are the processes, mechanical process. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti is not mechanical. It is spontaneous. When you spontaneously think of Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection. (break) Abhyabhicāriṇi. (break) Apratihatā. Yena ātmā prasīdati. (break) ...anxiety for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is transcendental.

Dr. Patel: All mana buddhi should be concentrated to the sacred feet of Kṛṣṇa. (break).

Prabhupāda: ...Madana-mohan, nobody can be saved from the hands of Madana. Madana-mohana we have to see.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no sanction. These are all sinful activities.

Richard Webster: These are material activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have created all these things. God has not sanctioned. God has not sanctioned for running on a factory. Therefore as soon as you run on a factory, you simply commit sinful activities. In the Bhagavad-gītā we don't find any such sanction that you run on a factory, a slaughterhouse or the brothel and this business and brewery no such sanction. But you have done at your whims. Just like in the last war, Mr. Churchill sanctioned or requested everyone to go to the church. What is that "V"? Victory? Yes. And now... Before starting the war, Mr. Churchill and company did not take any sanction. And when they were in reverse condition, then, that time, they are going to the church for victory. So God cannot be made in such a way as order supplier. That is not possible. This is not prayer. You start war whimsically, and when you are in a precarious condition you go to the church and pray God, "Give us victory." What is this? This is commanding God. But you have to follow the commands of God. That is your position.

Richard Webster: Lord Chamberlain tried to stop the war.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And within that thousands of years, he personally might have gone to the species of some worms and germs. That they do not believe. If they believe that, then they cannot do it. If they think that "After constructing this big, big skyscraper, I may become a tree or a germ or an animal," then they cannot do this. And they do not encourage this philosophy also. Because if they encourage that, then this thing will not be done. People will not be interested. Just like we are not interested. Therefore they do not like to discuss such thing. This is their position. We are trying to get out of these activities, material activities. And they are trying to entangle themselves in the material activities. So much difference. This is a nice path.

Dhanañjaya: So these buildings are mere symbols of their ignorance.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They have got some intelligence. They are utilizing for piling up these stones and bricks. That's all. This is their intelligence, how to pile up nicely stones and bricks. Crane. The same thing. The real business is to pile up some stones and bricks, that's all. They are making research, engineering. The real business is how to pile up stones and bricks. That's all. The same business as the children pile up some sand and imagine "This is park, this is this, this is that."

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, material world we can see that it is useless. Everyone sees. That I am giving, this example. Before, the Romans, they constructed this big, big building. Now what is the value of that? It has no value. Simply it is kept as sentiment, relics. That's all. So this will be also the same thing. So where is the utility? Spiritual, apart from spiritual, what is the value of your material activity? It is practical. Everyone can see. If one comes to Rome, they can see that these big, big buildings, they were very nice building at that time, very wonderful building, but what is the value of it now? Anyone can see. Any sane man can see. So why should we waste our energy in that way? If there is any valuable work, let us see. That is intelligence. To make another heaps of relics, is that very good sense? Nobody will go there even to urine or pass stool.

Dhanañjaya: No facilities.

Prabhupāda: No facility. Nobody is...

Dhanañjaya: Only the cats go there.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I think... When I was in college I studied chemistry, and I think many of the scientists that I also met, they felt very alienated from their asso..., from their relationship with nature or with God because of their empirical approach to everything, of setting themselves apart from everything. Therefore they felt detached from the complete whole, almost as if an island floating away somewhere with no relationship.

Prabhupāda: They... You became detached from all material activities? No?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Well, just the observer.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is the scientist's point of view. He's just observing, observing, observing, and therefore he feels almost left out of it. So they want to participate. They're very attracted to the...

Prabhupāda: But he's observing himself or not? Or he's simply observing outside himself?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Bhagavad-gītā says that he is observing his body, his field of activities.

Prabhupāda: No, Bhagavad-gītā... I am asking...

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He's observing outside of himself.

Prabhupāda: Then why does he not observe himself, that "What I am?" "Am I this body? Or what I am? Why I am full of anxieties?"

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa: "Purport: Birth, death, old age and diseases affect this material body, but not the spiritual body. There is no birth, death, old age and disease for the spiritual body, so one who attains a spiritual body, becomes one of the associates of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and engages in eternal devotional service, is really liberated. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: I am spirit. It is said that one should understand that he is Brahman—spirit soul. This Brahman conception of life is also in devotional service, as described in this verse. The pure devotees are transcendentally situated on the Brahman platform, and they know everything about transcendental and material activities."

Reverend Powell: "Transcendental" means spiritual, does it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reverend Powell: As opposed to material. And...

Prabhupāda: So they are always engaged in transcendental devotional service.

Reverend Powell: Always.

Prabhupāda: Always. Then they'll be freed from birth, death, old age and disease.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: Yes. To minimize this material work means the energy should be employed for Kṛṣṇa. Minimize work this, means this side, material side. And save time and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the principle. And if you are busy from the early morning to go to the working place and up to ten o'clock, then where you get for chanting, time? So therefore you save time from material activities and engage it for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is life.

Rāmeśvara: But the Communists, they also argue that this Christian religion is hypocrisy. It has not brought peace on earth. So they also want to abolish it.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rāmeśvara: They also want to abolish religion, this Christian religion, and just have a...

Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. They have got bad experience from this so-called Christian religion, and they have no information that there is need of religion. Therefore they want to abolish. Everyone has got bad experience, and they are a little forward, that "Finish it." That's it.

Rāmeśvara: They say that the problems of the world are so great that unless people have allegiance to one world government, they will not be able to be solved.

Prabhupāda: That we say, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme governor...

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhakta-rūpa: Perhaps that man thinks he has retired from working hard. But still he is performing so many activities, material activities.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. What can he do? He has no other engagement. (laughter) He doesn't know that there is another engagement, spiritual life. He doesn't know. Ignorant. Karma-samjñā. That I was discussing, this ignorance. He thinks working is life, that's all. Hard work.

Jagadīśa: Now he's working hard to put a ball in the hole.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows, "This is life." There is no other alternative. That is his ignorance. He cannot do it. Still, he is doing. You see? You know that when there was electric failure in New York? The statistics is that more women became pregnant. (laughter) But what they will do in the darkness? "Let us have sex." That's all. (laughter) (break)

Devotee: At the Māyāpur festival the older Gurukula boys are coming. Dvārakādhīśa and Ekendra, they're all coming. How many, about twelve?

Jayatīrtha: No.

Devotee: How many?

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, we know... It is useless. It is useless. Because what you will find in the newspaper? The material activities within this item-eating, sleeping, sex and defense. All the politicians will speak, "Now we are arranging eating process like this, we are making this plan, we are..., economic." Uhh? (aside:) Thank you. Very good. You have written? Aiye. The repetition of the same news. It has no good news. "There was a burglary, there was a theft, and this man cheated, and this man was rogue." What is the use of this news? Let everyone know that the whole world is full of such rubbish things. The politicians, they are talking in their own way, that's all. (indistinct) Even Gandhi, such an exalted man, he says that "I have no belief. I do not believe that there was any person as Kṛṣṇa ever living." Just see. All the big, big ācāryas of India who are practically controlling the destiny of the Hindu civilization or Vedic civilization, they all believe. Gandhi became more than them. Who made him, that is another thing. But he thinks like that, and because Gandhi thinks, just imagine how many millions of people have been misled. Similarly big, big scholars like Dr. Radhakrishnan, he says when Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), he said, "This is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, clearly it is stated, bhagavān uvāca Find out this verse. Please, you find out, somebody. Bhagavad-gītā here. Find out.

Devotee: Eighteenth Chapter.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Māyāvādī's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: If you alone live in this field eternally, that is not bliss. That is punishment. You see? So that is nature. We want ānanda, blissfulness. Therefore those who are... Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). After severe austerities they rise up to the Brahmān effulgence, but on account of his original nature of ānanda, he cannot remain there. He again falls down. "Oh, it was better, family life. What is this nonsense? Eternally sit up in this field? What is this? Let me go to the town and work there." You see? That is your nature. Therefore these impersonalists who want to merge, they can merge, but there they cannot remain. They will again come. These so-called sannyāsīs, they give up everything—brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā—Vivekananda or this Karpatri. Again they come to these material activities. Somebody takes social work, somebody takes political work. But if it is mithyā, if it is false, why...? (break) But they have... (break) Again come, open hospital, do political work. They cannot stick up. That is not possible.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So they are not saved from the greatest danger of falling down...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: ...into the lower species of life.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You engage your ear. That means activity. I glorify, I speak, I engage my tongue in glorifying. That is activity. But as soon as there is sense activity, that is activity.

Jesuit: Hmm. But to get that real stillness and quiet in which...

Prabhupāda: No. Bhakti is not stillness. That is neutrality. Stillness means you stop your material activity. That is stillness. But your material activities, when you stop it, that is stillness.

Jesuit: What is neutrality then?

Prabhupāda: That is neutrality, that neither spiritual nor material-on the marginal stage. It is called simply realizing how God is great. That is neutrality. But real devotion begins when one understands that "God is so great, I am rendering my service to this world uselessly. Why not render service to God?" That is called dāsyam, beginning of active devotion. We are active in the material world. It is useless. Simply wasting time and making one entangled in repetition of birth and death. Material activities. This is called pravṛtti-mārga. Pravṛtti-mārga means sense enjoyment. And for sense enjoyment we have to accept so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. Everyone is busy in sense enjoyment. The tiger is busy, the hog is busy, the dog is busy. The man also, if he becomes busy like tigers and hogs and dog, then he's going to become again the same species of life.

Morning Walk -- May 31, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is like that. Goloka nadha(?). One is trying to go to back to home, back to Godhead. A little discrepancy... Mahārāja Bhārata? Yes, he became deer. Therefore we should be very careful. That is the instruction. Even Mahārāja Bhārata, he fell down. So therefore how much careful we should be. These are the instructions to become careful. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31), always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will save you. That Kṛṣṇa chanting and hearing, that will keep us safe. Example is given: just like a polluted woman is doing all household work, but she is always thinking when she will meet with her paramour at night. This example is... Similarly, we may be engaged in different material activities, but if we keep our faith in Kṛṣṇa, then it will save us. It is possible. Just like the example: the woman is engaged in household affairs very diligently, but she is always thinking when she will meet her paramour.

Bali-mardana: If we keep that example in mind, then it becomes easier.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Another example is given. In South India there are a class of dancer. They keep a waterpot on the head, and they will dance, but it will not fall down. Careful. (break) ...kṛṣṇa-padaravindayor kṣīṇa-tavābhrāṇi ca sākaṁ pramodaḥ. If we remember always Kṛṣṇa, then all our inauspicity is driven away, and prosperity increases. Sākaṁ pramodaḥ. (break) If you know a little Sanskrit, they will see the composition of Bhāgavatam so fine. It is not possible to be composed now.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. A vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). first of all we have to change our mental activities into Kṛṣṇa activities. Then everything will be all right. The mind is engaged always, so the engagement should be with Kṛṣṇa. And if we read these books, our mind is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa. The same thing, our mind is engaged in material activities. The same mind is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's activities, then the whole thing changes.

Dr. Gerson: I have yet to look into the material that I'm presenting to the devotees but my experience with them is that as they are into the movement longer and longer and become deeper involved in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just exactly that is happening, that their material nature seems to become much more relaxed and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, there will be no more material activities. Just like you take a iron rod and put into the fire. It becomes warm, warmer, and at last it becomes red hot. When the iron rod is red hot, it is no longer iron rod. It is fire. If you touch the iron rod, red hot, anywhere, it will act as fire. Similarly, if you engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa activity the mind becomes Kṛṣṇaized gradually, and when he is advanced, there is no material activities, all spiritual activities. Just like here in this temple there is no material activities. And material activities means based on this illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. Here you will not find anything of this.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there. You have found out the verse?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they... He was found implicated with some woman.

Bahulāśva: You explain, Prabhupāda, that the impersonalists have to again fall down to material activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: So this Satchitananda, before he became yogi, he was an engineer. So in his spare time—I was asking this boy, "What does he do? What is his life like?" I was wondering what he lived like. So he goes to bed at 8:00 at night, and no one sees him until 8:00 in the morning. So I asked, "Was he asleep?" So he said no, that he's in some trance. And then during the day he works on cars. He collects old automobiles, old classical cars, and he takes them apart and puts them together for a hobby.

Prabhupāda: He cannot give up his old habit.

Bahulāśva: No. He cannot give up the engineering habit.

Baradrāj: About this Yogi Bhajan also, when I was in Delhi ...

Prabhupāda: Delhi?

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmī has no knowledge, what is the aim of life, but jñānī is understanding that "I have executed material activities so long, but I have not become happy. Then what is the reason?" That is jñānī. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. "What is real life?" But because they are not trained up as bhakta, they come to the conclusion of "The impersonal Brahman is the final." That is the defect. So anyway, they are better than the karmīs.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the jñānīs are very rare though, aren't they?

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, bhaktas are rare. (break) ...churches here?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is a school, convent school. There is one church here, another church across the street, a third over there and a fourth down the street from where we live. This church has a big food program, but they sell it. They don't distribute freely. They have about twelve vans. Congregational food... All these garages. They have vans, a big truck.

Prabhupāda: But they eat meat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, they distribute meat too.

Prabhupāda: Their program is for the poor? No.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sa sannyāsī sa yogī ca.

anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ

kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ

sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca

na niragnir na cākriyaḥ

(BG 6.1)

(Hindi) No, akriya means no material activities, only spiritual activities. That is akriya. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya! (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Sir, this karma and (indistinct) it is said, akarma means knowledge, and karma means that karma which binds you with this.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Patel: That karma which you do which binds with the...

Prabhupāda: Karma means you are implicated with the result. That is karma. And vikarma...

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), "Don't desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda:

mugdhasya bālye kaiśore

krīḍato yāti viṁśatiḥ

jarayā grasta-dehasya

yāty akalpasya viṁśatiḥ

(SB 7.6.7)

"In the tender age of childhood, when everyone is bewildered, one passes ten years. Similarly, in boyhood, engaged in sporting and playing, one passes another ten years. In this way twenty years are wasted. Similarly, in old age, when one is an invalid, unable to perform even material activities, one passes another twenty years wastefully."

Prabhupāda: Just like old man like me, eighty years, suppose another twenty years I may live, but I am invalid, I cannot do any solid work. So twenty years in the beginning as child, as young man, in sporting, jumping, twenty years passed. And last twenty years, simply old man's home, invalid home. So forty years gone out of hundred years. Then?

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like old man like me, eighty years, suppose another twenty years I may live, but I am invalid, I cannot do any solid work. So twenty years in the beginning as child, as young man, in sporting, jumping, twenty years passed. And last twenty years, simply old man's home, invalid home. So forty years gone out of hundred years. Then?

Hṛdayānanda: (Purport) "Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one wastes twenty years in childhood and boyhood and another twenty years in old age, when one cannot perform any material activities and is full of anxiety about what is to be done by his sons and grandsons and how one's estate should be protected. Half of these years are spent in sleep. Furthermore, one wastes another thirty years sleeping at night during the rest of his life. Thus seventy out of one hundred years are wasted by a person who does not know the aim of life and how to utilize this human form."

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: First of all, beginning with kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. So bhakti, beginning is ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅga bhajana-kriyā anartha-nivṛttiḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). The material world means simply creating unnecessary duties. Simply anartha. Any material activities, you take, analyze, it is simply useless. Therefore we have called anartha. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Take for example we say no meat-eating. So what is the difficulty there? I have seen in the airplane, they eat meat, a little piece, not a lump. But because everyone is eating little, little, we require huge number of slaughterhouses. But if one decides, "I have got so many preparations to eat, so why shall I eat little meat?" (indistinct) I shall forego. Immediately he is saved from so many sinful activities. It is not that he will die if he does not eat a little piece of meat, he will die. He'll not die. We are not dying, and we don't take. So similarly everyone, without eating meat, he can live very nicely. In the whole principle, there is no difficulty. So on this principle this whole world is merged into sinful activity. (Sanskrit), unnecessary. That is material position-unnecessarily creating trouble. There is no necessity. But on account of ignorance, foolish association, sinful life, more and more and more and more going on. Andhā yathāndhair upagīyamānāḥ. And the deed is encouraged: "Yes, you do this. Enjoy life." What is his enjoyment? If anyone sees slaughterhouse, will he enjoy?

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So when you engage yourself in soul's activities, then gradually your intelligence, mind, senses, become spiritualized, or original. Then material activities stop. At the present moment without (indistinct) spiritually (indistinct) we are acting on the platform of gross senses. But if we begin our activities from the opposite side, from soul side, then everything becomes spiritualized. But the question of giving up the senses, no, it has to be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Senses (indistinct) it should be purified. At the present moment, on account of material conception of life everything is polluted with material ideas. So when it will be spiritualised, that is perfect. But instead of working uselessly, if we use our legs for going to the temple then it is spiritualized work. And instead of going to the cinema, if we go and see Deity then it is spiritual eyes. Instead of going to the restaurant, hotel, if we take prasādam, so then you spiritualize your tongue. Instead of talking nonsense, if you talk about Kṛṣṇa, then it is properly utilizing the tongue. In this way we have to practice. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Somebody is trying to stop sense activity. That is not possible. The sense activity should be cleansed. That is wanted. Otherwise how would he say hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanam (CC Madhya 19.170). If you completely reject your senses then how we can serve Kṛṣṇa? It has to be purified. That is devotional service. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarnane (SB 9.4.18).

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, prakṛti-jān guṇān.

Rūpānuga: Yes. So I am identifying with my body in any mode, that is false ego. But my consciousness is contaminated by a particular mode. May be passion, may be ignorance, may be goodness. So then my consciousness is contaminated. So false ego is the base of all material activities, but I may be acting in a certain mode, contaminated in a certain way. Is that right?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: That is what it means.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everything clear, these four internal subtle senses?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: What else, you got?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually consciousness is a symptom of life, so when we say contaminated consciousness, the quality of life is there, but somehow...

Prabhupāda: That is mixed with material modes.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the best qualification. If he becomes disinterested with these so-called modern civilized activities, that is the perfection of life. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). Bhakti means the more you become God conscious, you become disinterested with these material activities. And that is needed, because material activities means you are wasting our time. What is the value of animal life? It is risky. If we become like animal, then we'll become animal next birth. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, the mind's position will give me another body. That is nature's law. That you do not know. There is no education how the body is being transferred, how the soul is transferred to different bodies. And there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and at the time of death, according to our mentality, we have to accept by nature's law a type of body which may not be human body. That we do not know. There is no education. The people are kept in darkness about the laws of nature. That is a very risky civilization.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, some might say...

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is not artificially. The more you are engaged in spiritual activities, the more you become free from material activities. That is the test.

Interviewer: And so you've arrived at that...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't speak about myself, but that is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). If you advance in bhakti, in spiritual life, then you become disinterested in material life.

Interviewer: Do you think there's a difference between the various peoples of the world? In other words, do you think that Indians as opposed to Europeans have more of a tendency or are more likely to adhere to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested.

Arrival at Farm -- July 29, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. The opportunity of human form of life is systematcially being refused by the modern civilization. This material activity only for the bodily comforts of life, that is not human civilization. Human civilization means the human being must know the supreme controller and the aim of life. The real fact is that God is there, the supreme controller, and we, living entities, we are His parts and parcels. As parts and parcels of God, we, being separated, we are suffering. An example can be given in this connection, just like a small child is the part and parcel of the body of the mother. So the child is happy when the child is on the lap of the mother. That means the part and the whole must live together. Then there is happiness. Otherwise, there is distress. The modern godless civilization is making the part and the whole separated. Therefore the whole condition is chaotic. You have got experience in your this part of the globe, within fifty years there have been two big, big wars and... Many other parts also. People are not in happiness on account of godlessness. So actually if we want to be happy in this life and the next life, then we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And it is not at all difficult: simply chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So I am very glad that you are accustomed to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Stick to it and you'll all be happy. Thank you very much. (break)

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Every one of us, we are attached to the body, and on account of being attached to the body the material activities are going on. These motorcars are running, karmīs are going here and there, what is the purpose? To maintain the road? Divasa śarīra-sāje. Miche nida-baśe gelo re rāti divasa śarīra-sāje. The body is given rest at night to revive, and daytime the activities for the matter of maintaining the body. But despite my all endeavor to maintain this body, it will not stay. It will give up my company and I'll have to accept another. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Bali Mahārāja says "What is the use of such endeavor?" Therefore big, big saintly persons, they do not care for the body. Lie down anywhere. But they are very serious about spiritual advancement. And people in general, they are interested in maintaining the body. It is not that we should be neglectful to the body. That example is also there. Just like we require fruits and flowers. So if we neglect the tree, there will be no fruits and flower. If we cut the tree, it will dry up and there will be no fruits and flowers. The fruits and flowers, this human body, the fruits and flowers mean self-realization. Bali Mahārāja analyzes the family. He says family means rogues and thieves. Whatever you want, they'll take away. The pickpocket takes from your pocket and he becomes a criminal, and when the wife takes thousand dollars from your pocket, you do not consider her to be criminal. You laugh, "Oh, you have taken the money?" "Yes, I've taken." The business is a pickpocket.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: ...but if there is no material activities, then you are not affected. This is possible. Just like an iron rod, you put into the fire. Gradually, it becomes warmer, warmer, and at last, when it is red hot, it is fire, no more iron. Similarly, even though we have got this material body, if we cultivate spiritual life, then the activities of the material body will stop automatically. Therefore it is no more material. The same example, the iron rod has become already fire. So you put it in the fire, and continue it, then you'll understand that it is no more iron rod, it is fire. Touch anywhere it will burn. You cannot say it is iron bar. Similarly, if you become spiritually enlightened, then the material activities will stop and then you'll be happy. (break) You'll feel, "Yes, I have got some food."

Peter: In the last chapter which he read, he was, I think you read about the yogis who can get to this high level of consciousness and then they can still fall back. That's like, my question, what was the cause for this?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, that is already explained—tyaktvā dehaṁ. Giving up this body, one can enter in the spiritual world. Viśate tad-anantaram—after death. By bhakti, when he's mature and he gives up this body, then he enters into the spiritual world. Tyaktvā deham, giving up this body. You cannot enter, although by devotional service the material activities of the body will stop, but you have to wait for the moment when this material body is no more existing, then with spiritual body you can enter. Tyaktvā deham, mām eti. Viśate tad-anantaram. Tad-anantaram after death. And if you have got little pinch of material attachment, then you'll have to accept another material body. So we have (to) come to the point that no more I want anything material. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). I am no more anyone's servant. I am neither American nor Iranian nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim, not this, not that, I'm simply servant of... That is my position. And so long I shall keep attachment for this designation, temporary... What is this Iranian, American, Indian? Say for few years. Because you have to change this body. Tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntaram. So after giving up this body, you have to accept another body. If I am in the next body I become a sparrow, then where is my conception of Iranian, Indian and Hindu, and Muslim? I am a sparrow. Jumping like sparrow, that's all. So these are designations, temporary designations. So one has to become free from these temporary designations. Then he's liberated. That is bhakti.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, of coming to the platform of spiritual senses. And when you come to the spiritual senses, then you can understand God, you can understand your relationship with God, you can talk with God, you can serve God, and so on, so on. The same example, just like iron rod as it is, it is not able to burn anything. But when the iron rod is sufficiently hot, red-hot, touch anywhere, it will burn. Similarly, from this physical platform, if you begin these spiritual activities, then stage will come when you'll act only spiritually, there will be no more material activity. That is the stage of bhakti, that is real platform of bhakti, when one is acting only spiritually, there is no material activity. That is the process. So if we adopt that process, it is possible to come to the platform of spiritual sense activity. That is possible. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is purification process. And when one is completely purified, then he acts with his spiritual senses.

Ali: Is it necessary to get to know the true self before knowing God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, God means spirit, supreme spirit. If you cannot understand what is spirit, then how you'll understand God? You must know what is spirit, what is matter, and when we have little understanding of the spirit, then we can make progress spiritually.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Similarly you will find the so-called sannyāsīs, not bhaktas, they undergo severe austerities, penances, but after some time they come to the worldly atmosphere. Because they could not get any place, therefore they come down. Just like the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs they say that this duniyā, (world) jagat mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, you have left it, then why you come again to give some philanthropic service? If it is mithyā, then why you come again after so much? Is it not nonsense? If jagat is mithyā why you are coming again to this mithyā? That means you could not get place in the satya. Therefore you come down again. That is stated in the śāstra. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). Although with severe austerities and penances (he) might go to the paraṁ pada, patanty adhaḥ, anādṛta-yuṣmad, because he could not get shelter at the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, he falls down. He must fall down to the material activities. Patanty adhaḥ. That is adho patha. As soon as a person, after undergoing severe austerities, becomes very highly elevated in the sannyāsa stage, but if he cannot get shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then surely he shall fall down for these material activities, material enjoyment. That is the sign that he's fallen down.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Faith. Yes. Faith means firm faith. Faith does not mean... Anyway, ādau śraddhā. This śraddhā, if we increase this śraddhā, you have to associate with sādhu.. And who is sādhu? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva samantavyaḥ. He is sādhu, who is simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. He is sādhu. Api cet sudurācāraḥ: "Even though you find there is some discrepancies in his character, because he is fully engaged in My service, he is sādhu." Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ samyag vyavasito hi saḥ (BG 9.30). If he has got other engagement, he is not sādhu. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) "Other engagement zero." That is sādhu. The sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). You have to associate with such sādhus who are cent percent engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ tato bhajana-kriyā. If you mix with the sādhu, then you'll learn the activities. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. The sādhus are rising early in the morning; they are attending maṅgala ārati, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then dressing the Deity and having ārati and so on, so on, so on. This is called bhajana-kriyā. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt: then all these material activities will stop. Because if you are engaged in spiritual act..., where is your time for material activities, for drinking wine and eating meat and going to the restaurant and...? No time.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today we were discussing how nice a devotee you are, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you are so faithful servant and devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa that He allows you to do whatever you want, because He knows that you'll do everything for Him.

Prabhupāda: Viṣaya means material activity. One side is viṣaya chāṛiyā, se rase majiyā. One has to give up material activities and engage himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is one side. Another side, my Guru Mahārāja said, kṛṣṇa sevāi, yāṅhā kahe anukūla, viṣaya boliyā tāṅha haya bhula. Anything which is favorable for kṛṣṇa-sevā, if we give up that business as viṣaya, that is mistake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So your life, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is the most favorable thing in this whole world for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You should not give it up.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, Kṛṣṇa has given us so many innocent boys. Yaśodā-nandana Mahārāja, teach them...

Yaśodā-nandana: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: ...like you so far as chanting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are also your innocent boys, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Let there be struggle for existence for this purpose.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fact, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually I don't think these men like Bajaj or any of them could possibly make this much money even in material activities, what to speak of spiritual. Spiritual, they lose money. They have to support it. But we have such a genuine religious movement that it supports itself. We don't require to construct big materialistic enterprises. We simply preach, and Kṛṣṇa supplies all the money.

Jayādvaita: Bajaj is just burdening the world with motorcycles, and you're providing the highest subject matter for hearing and chanting.

Prabhupāda: Where there is need of money, send there. I mean to say, just like Africa and other backwards... I am simply dreaming, and you are actually on the field.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are actually what?

Brahmānanda: On the field.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but that's because we're in your dreams. If you weren't dreaming like this, we would be on the material field.