Prabhupāda: But who cares for Rāmakrishna Mission? Hindu monk, but who cares for the Rāmakrishna Mission? For the last eighty-five years they are working. How many Hindus they have made? Simply bogus propaganda. They advertise that "We have made all Americans..." But where the Americans? They picked up two American ladies, that's all.
Lady (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Jayapatāka: He's the only one who gives out fish prasāda. Even the ricksaw drivers don't take his prasāda. They say it is unclean. (break)
Prabhupāda: Lady?
Jayapatāka: In this house here. There's one lady lives here. One of the devotees was walking. He said she hears the kīrtana at night. One widow.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...bus came here.
Bhavānanda: Down this road, turns here.
Prabhupāda: Oh. It goes to Krishnagar.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Apparently he takes a little enough quantity that it doesn't disturb. And it's ground down very finely into powder.
Trivikrama: He eats other stuff too.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he eats other things also, meat.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guru-kṛpā: I talked to one lady. She was daily eating one glass of dirt.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Guru-kṛpā: Soil. One lady was eating soil, one glass, saying it was good for health.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think the goat, the animal, the goat, they eat cans. They can eat metal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. The pigeons, they can eat stone.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've answered very nicely that whatever the authority says is good is good, and whatever the supreme authority says is bad is bad. Independently of what our own way of thinking is, we have to ultimately answer to the supreme authority. Even that lady, she gave the example that in society certain things are good, but they've bent the law, that things which were once bad, they are now accepted as good. So you explained that whatever the authority says is good is good. So the only difference I can see is that the goodness and the badness that Kṛṣṇa has defined are eternal.
Prabhupāda: Bad is this material world, and good is spiritual world. In the material world the discrimination of good and bad is mental concoction.
Yadubara: Like last night everyone was giving money for the hospital program, the meeting there.
Prabhupāda: Were there any book sale, our?
Yadubara: Some. I think that lady that you preached to the night before last, she bought a Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: She bought. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Carol Jarvis: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Then? You don't know. Then learn it. It is not possible. You must become an old lady. (laughter)
Carol Jarvis: How do you know?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I know. You know also. You are denying only. You know that you shall become...
Carol Jarvis: No, but I don't know anything. I'm prepared to not know anything. I'm prepared to wait and see...
Prabhupāda: Then you can know from the experience that every.... Your grandmother was young lady some years ago. Now she's old man, old woman.
Carol Jarvis: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How do you know?
Carol Jarvis: But, you know, you could use that argument and say, "Yes, but I also know that they weren't able to cure a single disease."
Prabhupāda: Now, if you say that "My grandmother has become old lady. I'll not become," that is lunacy.
Guru-kṛpā: They're envious, that we can do it and they can't. If you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then it could be done. If you want to struggle yourself, then you have to struggle. That one lady was.... They were criticizing how we have such big building and everything, and then you invited her to come and stay with us and she wouldn't do it.
Prabhupāda: So we shall go again or go back?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can go again if you like.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is time. They are very much attached to their sinful activities.
Prabhupāda: The stool, you take them and keep it apart. They will go again to the stool. Nature's way, they must suffer. So-called philanthropic activities, welfare activities—useless. You cannot do any welfare activity; you must suffer. Only way you can do them some good, inducing them chanting, that's all. Otherwise no possibility.
Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas. Even they see it, still, they do not believe.
Guru-kṛpā: They're envious, that we can do it and they can't. If you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then it could be done. If you want to struggle yourself, then you have to struggle. That one lady was.... They were criticizing how we have such big building and everything, and then you invited her to come and stay with us and she wouldn't do it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The goal of knowledge is not there.
Prabhupāda: They do not know. And animals.... Therefore they are animals. What the dogs will understand? When there is one lady dog, one dozen dog will come. Smelling the best part of the body. (laughter) This is their philosophy. So Freud is that: best part of the body, he's writing philosophy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes it may be required to interest someone in a book, that they may find out their interest. Just like people are interested in philanthropic activity.
Prabhupāda: Just like our... What is his name?
Hari-sauri: Tripurāri? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Some lady inquired, "Is there any instruction about the power shortage?" "Oh, yes." (laughs) So she purchased, and the next day she said, "There is nothing about power." So suppose Tripurāri has sold one book. The lady inquired, "Is there any basic instruction about power shortage?" And he said, "Yes." So you think it is wrong. That is your version.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A book should be written about the Bombay...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that... One lady, Nirmala,...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Dr. Singhal's wife.
Prabhupāda: Yes, she has already sent some article, why it is not published?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, whenever I see her she asks, "Why they don't publish?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, and they inquire.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You are asking us to make solution...
Prabhupāda: That is my problem. If anyone can solve this problem, I will call him scientist. That is everyone's problem. The artists, they are trying to remain young, especially the ladies. And still, the scientist cannot stop this, that "No more becoming old, old." Then where is your improvement? You have invented some cosmetic. You apply it, and your, what is called, hollow cheek will be swollen up.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in London recently, just like they have plastic grass, they have plastic trees, they have a plastic woman.
Prabhupāda: That is all right, but the plastic woman will not satisfy me.
Indian lady: This siddhis, do they harm sometimes humanity with their siddhis also?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Indian lady: With the siddhis... One who has attained all these siddhis, all these powers, do they harm humanity sometimes?
Prabhupāda: Anything without devotion to the Lord is harmful to the humanity. Anything, either karmī or jñānī or siddhi, it is all harmful, because all these things will keep him aloof from God. His mission is that he is separated from God. His mission should be how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So all these things—bhukti, mukti, siddhi—will keep him aloof from God. Therefore it is harmful. It will not allow him to go nearer to God, and that is harmful. That is the greatest harm. Being aloof from God, he's suffering. So these bhukti, mukti, siddhi will keep him aloof from God. He'll falsely think that "I am God."
Indian lady: But if they misuse these mystic powers, then they cannot stay as a mystic.
Prabhupāda: And why he's after mystic power? What is the use of mystic power. Suppose if you have got this mystic power—you can walk over the water—so what benefit you'll get? There is a boat also. It can walk on the river or on the ocean Does it mean his all questions are solved? Suppose you can walk over the water. So I cannot walk. I take a boat and pay him four annas. So what is the difference between you and me? It is a question of four annas, that's all (laughter). So why do you endeavor for this rascaldom, and make some jugglery to the foolish people? If you have to walk over the water, you can pay four annas to the boātmān and can do it.
Indian lady: Sometimes these mystic powers, they use on human beings...
Prabhupāda: This is one of the mystic powers which amaze people, foolish people.
Indian lady: But they can use on human beings also...
Prabhupāda: What human being?
Indian lady: In their life or...
Prabhupāda: No, no, suppose human being learns how to walk over water. Is that the solution of all problems? So what is the benefit to the human being? Suppose you have this mystic yogic power, you can walk over the water, and you teach the whole human society how to walk over the water.
Indian lady: But for some creation of something or so many things they show...
Prabhupāda: That means you have no clear idea, "something, something." Actually there is no benefit. You do not know what is benefit.
Indian lady: Can anybody create anything with this mystic power, any idol of God or any idol of devotee or anything, and then turn them to..., just a good mission to turn them to God?
Prabhupāda: What is that mission?
Indian lady: Well, er...
Prabhupāda: Practically come to the... Suppose if you learn how to walk, or how to fly in the air. Nowadays they are flying, the big, big airplane flying. They have not learned this mystic power. By machine they are doing that. Suppose if you fly by mystic power from here, Los Angeles, to Bombay or Nairobi, and another man flys over by the plane. Then where is the difference? It is a question of pounds or dollars. So what benefit do we get? Why do you give so much importance, who is flying or walking on the water? Better utilize the time to realize God. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).
Rāmeśvara: Again rebuild everything.
Prabhupāda: In Germany.... Just like Germany was finished. The American planes bombed in such a way that Germany was finished, very heavily bombed. One lady in Hamburg, she was showing me one wall, big wall building dismantled, and it has become black on account of bombing. She was showing me how far injustice they have been done.
Mādhavānanda: Actually, we have the best sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes.
Mādhavānanda: On the radio program, one lady, she was asking questions. She was very envious. "And you are living in such a palace."
Prabhupāda: Why shall I not? Government servants, they live in the best place. We are Kṛṣṇa's servants, the supreme government. We must have the best car, best house, the best food, (laughter) everything. You are unfortunate, you are wretched, you cannot possess this. We are government's servants.
Ambarīṣa: Also in Boston there's a lady who may be donating a million-dollar farm to the Boston Temple. This is just a project that's a little bit..., that's just started, and she wants to donate her farm. So that is also going on, and also the temple is purchasing the building next door. I gave them some money for a down payment on it so they could buy the building next door to use it to house the people that are living in the restaurant and also for the Bhaktivedanta Institute, because I think the Bhaktivedanta Institute is going to be in Boston. Mādhava is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Boston is nice place for the Institute.
Satsvarūpa: This is Professor Shivaram from McMaster University.
Prabhupāda: I think I saw you quite before this. Thank you. But I.... (devotee or Indian introduces several people, including Mr. and Mrs. Mukherjee) Mrs. Mukherjee, you're also teacher here?
Indian lady: No, I am a student.
Prabhupāda: Student.
Indian man: They're all from Bengal.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (converses with woman in Bengali, mentions Gauḍīya Maṭha) So what I was talking just now about this motorcar race?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This breakneck civilization. Just like dog, they're very, very busy. If you watch a dog, sometimes you'll see he's running here, running there, running here, running there. But no credit. Similarly, the modern scientists, they're running, running, running, very busy, but simply patchwork. They have no conclusion.
Prabhupāda: I was talking of these cars. The dog is running on legs, and they are running on cars. So, (laughs) actually what is the difference? This is advancement of civilization, that the dog is running for nothing, here and there on legs, and human being is running on nice car.
Devotee (1): In Cleveland, also, Prabhupāda, there are so many churches, only five, ten, fifteen people attend, and they are all elderly, elderly ladies.
Hari-śauri: Due to the Pope's taking a firm stand over the not allowing abortion and contraception, like this, they said that the number of practicing Catholics was reduced from seventy-five percent to fifty percent, just simply because of that one principle that he'd stuck to. So twenty-five percent immediately left.
Prabhupāda: Where they have gone? (laughter)
Hari-śauri: Well, they gave up going to church at least.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Hopeless life.
Prabhupāda: No, why hopeless? There is hope—Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) At daytime, witch, and nighttime, tigress. This is her picture. But people know it, and still, they keep one tigress at home. Duniya sab barakhobe gara gara bhag(?)... So that lady spider and lord spider, that is everywhere. But here gradually, and they are immediately. That is the difference. The process is the same. People want to enjoy by sex, by seminal discharge, but what is this? His blood. By fifteen drops of blood, or something like that, one drop of semina is created.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this President's wife, this present First Lady is very abominable. She actually came out and said, "If I were young I would also experiment with drugs." So many things.
Prabhupāda: No, why here? In India, in India, in a office, I was going there for my Back to Godhead, so the clerk had one girl, they were intimately related, and the girl's father, mother allowed. The boy was coming. And when the girl wanted to marry him, the father refused. "No, no, you cannot marry. Let him come as friend, but there is no question of marriage."
Indian lady: And it is sure to go through in this life if you try this?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is sure. He says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. It is sure. It is not speculation. It is fact. As soon as you surrender, you immediately become freed from all sinful reaction of life. And we suffer on account of sinful reaction of life. So intelligence is that "Here is the opportunity, mām eva ye pradadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te, to get out of the clutches of the influence of material energy. Why not take it now?" That is wanted. Vāsudeva sarvam iti sa mahātmāh su-durlabhaḥ.
A bhakta is submissive. And nondevotees, they are not submissive. They are so proud that they say "I am Bhagavān, I am God." So that attitude will not help to understand. (Prabhupāda converses in Hindi with an Indian lady about how one does not have to renounce family life to understand Kṛṣṇa.) He says paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). He understands perfectly. There is no question of gṛhastha or sannyāsī. It is a question of understanding. And Arjuna is gṛhastha, politician, fighter, and still he is selected to understand Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian lady: Is number important in chanting? It has to be certain number, or you can just chant?
Prabhupāda: Number? Yes, of course, no. Actually, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Always to be chanted. But because you cannot do that, therefore you must fix up a number. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka, that "I must chant so many times." That is determination. I have prescribed to my disciples that "You must chant at least sixteen rounds." That is very easy. But there is saṅkhyā. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ.
Prabhupāda: In the Kali-yuga one cannot maintain even one wife, what to speak of more than one. They are afraid to marry one wife. I first heard this, one elderly lady in New York. At that time, I was newcomer. I asked her, "Why don't you get your son married?" "Yes, he can be married, provided he can maintain wife," she said. So these things were unknown to us. In India, whether he'll be able to maintain... Just like I was married when I was third-year student. Where is the income? There is no income, but still I was married.
Much of the food comes from the 350-acre ISKCON-owned dairy farm in Academia, Pennsylvania, one of the six similar facilities in this country and Canada." They show pictures of devotees in the temple, devotees taking prasādam and two lady devotees. "The yoga," it says under the caption, "monks take breakfast by hand in rows on the dining area floor." Here it says "Saried women devotees dwell in cloister atmosphere of the center." Then "The yoga of devotion: Tilaka of clay paste marks the devotee as a member of ISKCON sect. Central shrine in the temple is the focal point of twice a day services." A picture of Rādhā-Govinda. "
Indian lady: Is it because the Indians think that they know much about Bhagavad-gītā? Being born a Hindu, they might think they know the religion, but not very much. They are not Kṛṣṇa conscious at all.
Prabhupāda: But if he knows everything, he does not know Kṛṣṇa? How he knows everything if he does not know Kṛṣṇa? If you think that you know everything, then you must know Kṛṣṇa. But if you do not know Kṛṣṇa, then what do you know? Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply know Kṛṣṇa, then you know everything. And if you know everything and you do not know Kṛṣṇa, then you are rascal, that's all. Mūḍha. That is the test. If you know everything but do not know Kṛṣṇa, then you are a rascal. And if you know Kṛṣṇa, then you know everything automatically.
Indian lady: I think they think they know it, but I'm sure they are not aware of it.
Prabhupāda: If they know Kṛṣṇa, why they do not come to the Kṛṣṇa's temple?
Prabhupāda: This is not education. Everything is killing. Therefore we are supposed to deal with all madmen. They are thinking that they are constructing such big, big buildings, they are the most exalted persons, but we take them as mad.
- piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
- māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya
Ghostly haunted. A person ghostly haunted, as he does, acts, similarly, anyone who is under the clutches of māyā, he acts like this. (break) ...this church, I came. They purchased one set of books. And one lady, Mrs. McGuire I think, she arranged this meeting. Underneath there is subway. I was sitting there and the subway sound was cut-cut cut-cut cut-cut.
Devotee (1): It's that same lady again.
Ādi-keśava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we went to one other part of the park down there, and we found they have a big statue of a dog there, and it says "In honor of the dogs." Some sled-dogs that came and saved some people in Alaska in 1926, a big statue of a dog.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...cold.
Prabhupāda: He has got some? Children are not affected. Old men are affected. For children, if there is diarrhea, it is good, but old man, if there is diarrhea he is going to die. (break) ...
Rādhāvallabha: This dog is after everyone, it attacks everyone that comes by, and the lady gets angry when they try to get the dog away.
Prabhupāda: Is there fish here?
Hari-śauri: It's just the water moving, little waves, that's all. This is just a pond for sailing model boats, so I don't think there'd be any fish.
Devotee (1): There's fish in there.
Hari-śauri: Fish?
Devotee (1): Sure.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The fish eat up the algae, keep it clean.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...skyscraper building, how many stories they can build? Is there any estimation?
Rādhāvallabha: Over a hundred.
Prabhupāda: Now, how many?
Indian man: Probably I might. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got ladies' department and gentleman's department. You can stay.
Indian man: I would like to invite you to Poughkeepsie and stay with us if it is possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How long it is?
Indian man: Hundred miles north from here.
Prabhupāda: So by car?
Indian man: Yes, by car.
Prabhupāda: It will take about four, five hours.
Kṣīrodakaśāyī: We got many times, many visitors here. One time that church come here to see how things are. Chinese people came, Englishmen. One of the lady, not very far from here, she came one morning, said "My brother is in the hospital, and he is very sick. I know you are a pious people. Can you pray for him?" And "You pray the Lord. You come here. Lord is here." And...
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Kṛṣṇa has spoken about the kṣetrajña. Kṣetrajña means the knower of the body, as He has already explained, that "I know that this is my finger." I never say, "I finger." So this body is kṣetrajña, the field of activities, and the soul is the proprietor or worker within the body. That is called kṣetrajña. This is already explained. He tried to explain... Because there are many ladies, so he tried to explain in Hindi. So here in the next verse Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "I am also kṣetrajña. I am also one of the knower of the body."
George Harrison: December the fifth, I think.
Prabhupāda: Very nice season in Bombay. Best time.
George Harrison: You know, I think you met Laksmi Shankar, lady singer? Her daughter, who is also a singer, Viji, Viji Śrī Shankar, and she's marrying a South Indian violin player, L. Shankar.
Prabhupāda: He's also Shankar?
George Harrison: Well, he's called L. Shankar. You know that South India they have a funny way around them, they have like a surname. He's just called L. Shankar. His brother is called L. Subhramanyam.
Devotee (1): George says he wants to spend some time in Vṛndāvana.
George Harrison: I was only there for about thirty-six hours last time.
Prabhupāda: We have got now very good centers. Another gentleman, he's offering us a very good place at Mahābaleśvara. That's one of the famous India stations. A very nice climate. So you can come and stay there. We have got now many good centers.
Bhagavān: So let us pay our obeisances. (devotees offer obeisances)
Prabhupāda: So what is this?
Hari-śauri: What is it? (child whispers "It's a hat") It's a hat.
Prabhupāda: Oh? You are just now coming? You have got, Mālatī? (speaks Hindi with Indian lady) So what is the news of Amster..., what is it?
Hari-śauri: Amsterdam.
Prabhupāda: Amsterdam.
Devotee (1): Thank you
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, you have painted?
Devotee (1): A lady from Corsica, she gave me that, and she took your Bhagavad-gītā and also she gave me that for your work.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, this is very good neighborhood.
Prabhupāda: As soon as they understand, they will come.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: For restaurant, very nice. (some conversing as lady shows them through)
Dayānanda: Very nice kitchen, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a good size kitchen.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: That kitchen can be extended.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Gargamuni: We pay for their prasāda.
Prabhupāda: And three days, free boarding and lodging. In this way things should be clear so that in future they may not complain, "Ah, we...," as they are doing. Somebody is coming: "Oh we have given 1100 rupees to live forever." Some ladies came like that.
Gargamuni: Yes, I know, I met that lady.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they take it, advantage. "Oh, we shall get all books and live forever. There is no charge. Pay. "That misunderstanding should be...
Prabhupāda: It was a very good place. This Prabhākāra helped me. Ninety percent was... But if I did not leave, nobody could drive me, that was a fact. But I thought "Who is going to..., for litigation? She is the governor's wife, and she is pressing through collectors, through..." The manager who was in charge, he had some cinema house. So they had to renew the license, cinema house. And the collector pressed him that "Unless you arrange for this house, we are not going to renew your license." I thought, "Unnecessarily this man will be in trouble. I'll have to pay so many rupees, and she is governor's wife." And that lady came to me in Bombay several times. "You take my press. You have got so many publications."
Maṇihāra: Even in the West they are not so favorable, but still everybody has heard of Kṛṣṇa. Everybody's heard of the Hare Kṛṣṇa people.
Mahāṁśa: There's only five first initiations. Those ladies, I told them to wait some more time. Those ladies, I told them to wait for some more time because they were still drinking tea and coffee until yesterday.
Prabhupāda: No, if they promise they will give up, then we can give.
Mahāṁśa: I'll tell them. Another thing was those, what is, I don't know what is the position of ladies being initiated. They are young girls. They may get married. They may get married to someone outside the society.
Prabhupāda: But she can chant and observe the rules and regulations—what is that.
Mahāṁśa: Even if her husband does not follow?
Prabhupāda: That does not matter. It is individual.
Lokanātha: When you went to some place in Gujarat, Sanand? It was reported that thousands of people will come. It was a small village...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Village, if you go out they will come like anything. Even in the city we have got experience. In Calcutta we did Maidan. Thirty thousand they were coming. They could not understand English, still they are coming, simply by kīrtana. This Haṁsadūta was performing kīrtana, and all the Bengali ladies coming from outside Calcutta by train, and they're praying, "take this." (indistinct) Still India is alive. And I was speaking in English mostly. Also in Delhi. Still ladies are sitting. (laughs) What they'll understand English? But that kīrtana was so attractive, they sat down only for kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: If there is no reason then why there are so many interpretations of Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi back and forth)
Indian lady: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: So many (indistinct), that's all right, But if you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, you have to do like that.
Indian lady: (Yelling)
Prabhupāda: (angry) I don't say Caitanya, I say Kṛṣṇa. Why you misunderstand? Don't talk like that. I don't say that. Why you have misunderstood? Don't disturb in that... I don't say Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Why you are bringing Caitanya? You are saying. I say what Kṛṣṇa says, you do that.
Indian lady: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So why you shall go to so many leaders? Why not go to the supreme leader, Kṛṣṇa?
Indian lady: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: If you explain, that is another... But interpretation.
Guest: That is the basic...
Prabhupāda: That is already there. What Kṛṣṇa says, you say.
Mr. Malhotra: This place is full of tourists from Bombay, from all of Gujarat. (break) Pancagani is one place, and 12 miles difference Mahabalesvara. Also it is twin city like Secunderabad, Hyderabad. (break) In the morning when you go for walk you will find local ladies getting load of food collected from the forests and taking. Very old, old type of life (break) ...this place. I visited Switzerland and I visited almost every hill station of the country, and almost practically entire world. But I find this place of a different solace, (break) ...and second, it is very neat and clean.
Prabhupāda: Maharastrians are very neat and clean. Upper class, they are very. (break) ...karmī.
Jagadīśa: Well, that doesn't mean I can. (break)
Indian lady: In our schools and college...
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) She'll understand Bengali. (Bengali) That explains. (Bengali)
Indian lady: Why don't they teach this in our schools and colleges?
Prabhupāda: Because they won't take it. They'll take this unauthorized interpretation.
Indian lady: I remember, I come from Sindh, and before partition, we were taught all these religious books in our school. But now...
Prabhupāda: Simply reading will not do. You have to learn from the right person.
Indian lady: By reading, reading, we learn.
Prabhupāda: No, if you read as it is, then you will be benefited. But if you read these rubbish commentaries, then (speaks to another man) You inquired about that land? He wants to avoid the land.
Indian man: 24th, last weekend.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So our only request is that you read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You'll be benefited. And if you interpret whimsically, then you'll rot, spoil. There is no benefit by eating spoiled foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa says... Jaya. Jaya. Prasāda, liye.
Indian lady: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you are welcome always. Whenever you find time. (Hindi) Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). This is Caitanya. First of all, make your life successful. That successful means yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128), to understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly. Then you become guru. When you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you are janma sārthaka. And then you can speak para-upakāra. Otherwise, it is not possible. Without Kṛṣṇa tattva-jñāna, if we become leader, that will not take... yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). What is that?
Devotee: I got a different vase.
Prabhupāda: This is spoiled. Oh. Another.
Devotee: This is a different.
Indian lady: But through chanting also you get...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the easiest process. Now the previous (indistinct) was spoiled and it was not clear. So it is spoiled. But now it is clear, it is nice. Not clear means something added.
Indian lady: Adulterated.
Prabhupāda: Something adulteration. Adulterated things are not good. Pure thing, that is good. Why do they not accept? Let us discuss something. Why these people interpret? What is the reason to spoil it?
Indian lady: To gain the leadership?
Prabhupāda: But with that leadership, if you cheat others, does it mean leadership?
Indian lady: Or importance. Or the ego which they, "I have got so many followers. Whether I'm wrong or right, everyone thinks I'm right."
Prabhupāda: So what is the meaning of these followers who are all... What is called? Just like sometimes the... What is called? You take so many lambs, what is that called?
Devotee: Shepherd?
Prabhupāda: Shepherd. Yes. The shepherd has many followers. But does it mean any meaning?
Indian lady: We are the sheep without any understanding we blindly follow. The public I mean.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that does not mean that that man is very important, the shepherd, because you follow. What is the meaning of...
Indian lady: But the sheep has no sense of herd. What poor sheep can do?
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Because thousands of sheep following one shepherd, does it mean the shepherd is an important man?
Indian lady: One sheep thinks that "So many sheep are following, with me..."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. I say the shepherd is an important man because there is...?
Indian lady: No, not that. No no.
Prabhupāda: No. Then why you take that? That is explained the Bhāgavatam, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The shepherd may be followed by so many sheep but that does not mean he's an important man. That is the... That is the, going on. The so-called leaders, they are just like shepherd and we are like sheep. But that does not mean the shepherd is an important man.
Prabhupāda: You can change immediately. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). You can change immediately within a second.
Indian man: Within a second.
Prabhupāda: But because you are sheeps, you'll not do.
Indian lady: But we'll change only when there is a guru-kṛpā.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says... You are taking Bhagavad-gītā, the leader is taking Bhagavad-gītā, and he's speaking nonsense. So we are human beings, we should know what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The paramparā, whether he's speaking paramparā or he's speaking whimsically. That much sense we must have.
Indian man: You have six o'clock in the morning same thing, six o'clock in the evening same thing. No change. In the morning I was also there. No change. I've brought this gentleman and this lady they want to come here and stay and work for the institution. He's 74 years old and she's also very active and she knows very good cooking.
Prabhupāda: Hm, very good.
Rādhā-vallabha: This is the very beginning. "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the First American Theistic Exhibition. Since time immemorial we have inquired about our origin. We have tried to understand our place in the universe, the nature of birth and death, free will and predestination, time, God, and nature. However, even after countless years of philosophical study and comprehensive research these questions still remain for the most part a mystery. The words you are about to hear were written five thousand years ago in a language no longer spoken called Sanskrit."
Prabhupāda: No longer spoken? Why?
Rādhā-vallabha: I was just wondering about that myself. No longer spoken on the earth?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is spoken in India. There are many scholars who speak Sanskrit. In Europe also.
Guest (1): If it is told by (indistinct) who accept it.
Prabhupāda: No, why these boys are attracted ? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vṛndāvana, Māyāpura. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Wellington, he (she) challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tīrtha Mahārāja, that "You Indian people..." She was very proud, Lady Wellington. Wellington was Iceland. She said that "You Indian people..." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Thakur Mullik, Rādhārāṇī. So in their festival some dancing girl would come, vaibi.(?) That was aristocratic, to call a prostitute and dance. So at that time we were children, five, six, seven years old. So persons who were of our father's age, they would sit down round the prostitute exactly like the street dogs surround one female dog, exactly. They had no shame even. This was aristocratic. And talking all nonsense, and if the prostitute smiles, they become very much obliged. She is (laughter) smiling. And amongst our mother's friends, they were talking, "My husband has kept that prostitute." And another lady... We were at that time boys, three, four years, but I remember all these things. Another lady, "My husband has kept that..."
Hari-śauri: Oh, you went on a sightseeing tour.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, that "Here, respectable widows." In Russia, after being widow, they used to live along with other respectable widows. They would never marry. Widow house. Live with queens and other respectable ladies.
Devotee: This lady is coming from Germany.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Indian lady?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation with lady) You cannot do anything. Ultimately they will say no and for this they are paying (indistinct). (Hindi with lady) Very nice. You have got the desire and Kṛṣṇa will fulfill your desire. (Hindi) Then with practice, then it becomes successful. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be increased by gradual process. First thing, just like you have got faith, it is nice thing. This is śraddhā. Then to associate with persons who are already engaged in this business, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). That is called sādhu-saṅga. Ādau śraddhā tato, and then act like them, bhajana-kriyā. Simply theoretical will not help.
Prabhupāda: So materially wherever I go, there any gentleman I meet, "Oh, you are coming from India, very poor (indistinct)." This is our (indistinct). Not now, fifty years ago in 1930's when one of my godbrothers, one or two they went to London, Lady Willingdon, she was speaking that "You people come here from India and we give you degrees and you earn your livelihood in India. So what you have come to teach us?" That's a fact. We go to England to take the degrees, MRCT, FRCA, barrister or so on, so on, so on.
Girirāja: So today... Actually I was thinking of phoning his wife because she was not well or one of our ladies could call her and then if she's still not well they could go and visit her. And if she is well, they could invite her that if she wants to come then she'll bring him.
Prabhupāda: Mm. Don't bother. But as an etiquette (indistinct).
Girirāja: Mr. Mota telephoned to say that that other man who was here...
Prabhupāda: Mashari.
Girirāja: No, the Kapoor, the Punjabi man.
Prabhupāda: That one is from (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: One lady... She is Subash Bose's niece, Lalitā Bose. You see? Because these family are very intimately..., Subash Bose's family and Nehru family. So she calls Indira "Didi," means "elder sister." So she took me, and she gave me interview at a very critical moment, just day before that Bujhibanlal(?) was killed, and she was guarded by heavy number of police and soldier. Still, she allowed my car to enter. I am very much obliged. But it was ten minutes' time. So what Bhagavad-gītā could be discussed in ten minutes? Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34).
Prabhupāda: And so credible. So this is your nation, that if one gentleman and lady remain as husband-wife for long time, it is a wonderful thing. So first of all decide what do you mean by religion; what is the definition of religion. Our definition of religion is this, that the law given by God is religion. Now you refute it. That is everywhere. Just like any state, you... The law given by government is law. That is universal truth. You cannot manufacture law at your home. What is given by your state, that is law. Similarly, religion means what is given by God, that is religion.
Rāmeśvara: Within the mind they are hearing the message of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: There are some cartoons. One old lady is requesting her husband, "Chant! Chant! Chant!" and the husband is saying, "Can't! Can't! Can't!" You did not see that?
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And another big businessman, he is coming from business and sitting: "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" These cartoons are there.
Gargamuni: Not for a feast, but she came.
Prabhupāda: No, she used to come. And kissing you. (laughter) He's very pet son of his mother. Sometimes I told her, "Mrs. Bruce, you can give us some money." "I have given my two sons!" And "That's all right." I have met his mother, is very nice lady.
Guest (1): When Madhu-maṅgala, when he was thinking that Śrī Kṛṣṇa is a general man and was for these ladies only, then he saw that viśvarūpa of Śrī Kṛṣṇa on the screen, all the universes inside Śrī Kṛṣṇa...
Guest (2): All the universes moving about.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Hari-śauri: When they've seen everything, perhaps you'd like to go just to look at the different sights, see what you like.
Prabhupāda: First of all you see whatever he selects, "This is the best." Then I'll...
Bhāgavata: That area around Puri Hotel there has depreciated due to tourism. Due to the tourists coming, that area around Puri Hotel, everyone walking, and ladies and men together...
Prabhupāda: Eating everything.
Pṛthu-putra: But an actual person came one day to the temple to a boy.
Prabhupāda: The same, same thing. Where is that actual person?
Pṛthu-putra: Well, it was a person, an old lady who come like this, astrologer
Prabhupāda: Ordinar... He came eye to eye? Or dream?
Pṛthu-putra: Yes, a person came, person.
Satsvarūpa: No. They're saying it's not a dream state but actual manifestation. Just like a demigod comes, they are being visited by...
Prabhupāda: But he only visited? Nobody else?
Pṛthu-putra: No, many devotees could see that person coming to the temple, but she spoke to only one, to Adhikaraṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, very good. But do your duty. If you get some such person, devatā, "Welcome, but I must do my own duty."
Satsvarūpa: "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Puzzle."
Prabhupāda: Bah, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is there, that's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa is there. That is our triumph. We don't mind what the nonsense is speaking. We don't mind.
Satsvarūpa: Even this one lady, she's chanting in reverse. She says, "They'll do anything for Kṛṣṇa. That's bad, a bad thing," she said.
Prabhupāda: That is mind control, Another mind control. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Since the rascals have taken up, he is speaking differently. That is mind control.
Hari-śauri: That was his stepmother.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hari-śauri: They divorced. The lady that came here was his real mother.
Prabhupāda: Real mother.
Satsvarūpa: Jayatīrtha sent a cartoon from Punch Magazine. Big, big church, and the priest in the pulpit, and there's only lady there, and in the sermon he's saying, "Mrs. Bennett, you have to give more in the collection." She's the only one there. He said, "I think you will enjoy this, Prabhupāda. It shows the position of churches in the West."
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen London. So many hundreds of churches are closed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know if Jayapatākā's mother...
Translator: She speaks very little. I think she learned a few new words when she came. But like an Italian lady, she speaks a lot and very quick, but for the mother of Jayapatākā it's a little difficult.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're associating.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you read Bhagavad-gītā, Italian, and study nicely, and whenever there is any doubt, you can ask me.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That is healthy, when you do not die even the body is destroyed. That is healthy life. What is this healthy life? The body is finished and everything, everything is... Actually everything is finished. And to keep people in that ignorance—"The body is finished; everything is finished." That's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa very clearly said, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even how it is possible. That is the most important question. Some lady asked me, "What is the important...?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam.
Prabhupāda: No, any knowledge. Just like modern scientists, they do. When they discover something, they give it. Go from university to university. Whatever... They may be wrong. They want to give it. That is the way. In India such vast knowledge, it is kept for professional Bhāgavata readers. How much harm they have done! Some professional Bhāgavata readers, it is their profession. And they will gather some woman and talk of rāsa-līlā and Bhāgavata reading. Some lady, old men, some woman, they will gather and sit down with their grammar,(?) karma-kāṇḍa. So that his material position will be better off. And the reciter will gather so many dozens of (indistinct) and umbrella and cloth, and take it away and sell it in the market, and employ it for his son's marriage, daughter's marriage. And this is called Bhāgavata. This is going on.
Girirāja: They all are. This... When I was at Poona, so I was meeting this man, Mr. Trelaskar. So the next house is very wealthy widow, very wealthy widow, Sindhi lady, and one of the big gurus of Poona, this Baswami, Sadhu Baswami, so he comes and spends time at her house. It's really bad. And then here at... This morning on the beach, I went to chant my rounds. So there's another big swami, Swami Muktananda, and he was sitting on the beach. Some followers were there. And he's also staying with some, you know, rich disciple.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Female.
Girirāja: Probably. I didn't know.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very popular in America.
Prabhupāda: Muktananda? Hm.
Girirāja: And, you know, he's such a rascal that he loves dogs. He keeps dogs in his āśrama, and they're...
Prabhupāda: Ordinary man.
Mr. Dwivedi: No, forty miles away from Gwalior.
Prabhupāda: One lady lives in Vṛndāvana...
Shri Narayan: (Hindi)
Indian lady (1): (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)
Girirāja: This is prasādam of the Deity.
Shri Narayan: Yes. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)
Prabhupāda: Indians, intelligent... (Hindi) Indians... So, but they have sacrificed everything for..., to imitate the Westerners. But Indian (Hindi) knowledge... But we have locked it. Our knowledge, we have locked it, and we are trying to imitate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everybody's appreciating this view. All the ladies were standing on the balcony.
Prabhupāda: So immediately contact Jayadal and Dalmia, and he has got a nice house. We go to Hrishikesh immediately. It is very nice. Or Patel.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or Bhogilal.
Prabhupāda: Then we haven't got to go Kashmir.
Indian lady (1): Would you say that I accept duty of the...
Prabhupāda: You understand first of all. Whatever the rascal father was teaching, he was refusing. That is the quarrel between the father and the son.
Indian man (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the responsibility of some person towards the father who has given the material body to him?
Prabhupāda: Oh, don't try to understand in a minute. You read all these books. But tentatively, if the child has form, the father must have form. There is no doubt of it. And what is that form? That you have to understand. And his question, the father was a demon, but the child was not demon because he refused to follow that demon father. That was his only fault.
Indian man (1): (Hindi) That is why I spoke some words yesterday without your permission, sir, just to explain to them in Hindi. Some ladies were sitting in the back. And they were more interested in that picture, "Kṛṣṇa likes Rādhārāṇī," so I had explained.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) English boliye.
Indian man (1): I think that will be better. It will suit many.
Prabhupāda: So we are talking of who requires a guru. Guru is not a fashion.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) You are all qualified. I can give you ideas. Now I am doing. So I wanted to see that you are all busy. That I want because now I am becoming invalid. I cannot move very swiftly here and there. But if you move, I take pleasure. There is a Bengali proverb, na pajimane na jamai datta(?). A old lady, so she has lost her husband. She cannot joke. Husband, wife, they exchange some joking word. So with whom she will joke? Then the grandson-in-law, grandson... So in our society, Bengal, the grandson-in-law... I have got experience also. When I was newly married grandson-in-law, so my grandmother-in-law was joking with me like anything, more than husband. (laughter) And granddaughter-in-law.
Guṇārṇava: So they can mix with the gurukula?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not?
Yaśodānandana: What about householders and ladies?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not at all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've noticed that the people in the villages, when they come to fetch water, they have very nice pots. The ladies are wearing some bracelets. Gold, I think, it must be.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the village.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You'll find description in Bhāgavata. They were coming to congratulate Kṛṣṇa—so nice dress, so nice ornament, so nice foodstuff made of ghee, grains in our...
Śatadhanya: Sometimes the rich Marwari ladies, when they come to Māyāpura, once in a while they give some ornament to the Deity. They'll give one ring or one bracelet, gold.
Prabhupāda: That was always. They would offer some ornament to the Deity.
Akṣayānanda: No, there is one. At the back side there is one lady with child, because that room is not favored by the guests. She is the wife of one of the senior men, and there's no other place. That is just one exception.
Prabhupāda: If they're paying guest, then it's all right.
Prabhupāda: That should not be his business. It may be inferior. If not inferior, not with the... Then it is mentioned in the... (break) Still more. (break) And that is all written, Hindi, English. They can go home to home and distribute Hindi books to the ladies. They can be engaged in that way. (break) Therefore any so-called yogi (indistinct).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You remember that lady? You were walking and some old lady, she didn't know you, but just by your dress and the way you were walking...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...she offered her respects.
Prabhupāda: Yes. On the whole, they are good. Culture is Indian.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eastern culture.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they are imitating.
Prabhupāda: Whatever indication, I like this. You cannot check my liking. Just like an Indian dresses like a European, or a European dresses like Indian. Does it mean that he has become Indian or he's American? He likes it. That's all. Can you object if a girl dresses like Indian with ladies' sari? Can you object? It is something like that. "Oh, why you have become Indian-like? Why you are imitating?"
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was in Calcutta. Adri-dhāraṇa Prabhu told me that the Marwaris love it, even in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the ladies can read at home.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the cover for First Canto, Part Three, is already printed. I'm going to take 1.3 now, but we've already printed the cover. This is 1.3.
Prabhupāda: This I want. Books are coming.
Dhanañjaya: But you did mention previously that our ISKCON ladies, if they so desire, they can learn.
Prabhupāda: If they are idle, then you can give engagement. Otherwise don't bring engagements. If they are idle—there is no work—give them. Not that you bring engagement and then... We want to be free from engagement, but if there is idle men, doing nothing, give them engagement. Now that we have got so many work. Simply unnecessarily, paid men are there for cutting vegetables. They have got so much... Means management is a rascal.
Haṁsadūta: Just prior to her being arrested, a few days, she has publicly announced that "The government doesn't have the guts to arrest me." She said, "The government doesn't have the guts to arrest me." So this arresting her will make her more popular. She is very intelligent lady. And her little sister, this Shreemav Badranayiki, she was the prime minister of Shree Lanka. She is also coming back. These two women went to school together. They were in the same class.
Bhagatji: From Ceylon.
Haṁsadūta: Yes. It's an amazing coincidence. This woman prime minister of Śrī Lanka, she follows everything Indira does. When Indira Gandhi held elections, she also held elections. She lost; she lost. She's coming back; she's coming back. They're very friendly, two ladies running these two countries. Sometimes when preaching I tell the public, "What kind of country is this? The land of the rājarṣis and some lady is running the government."
Prabhupāda: Hm, don't touch politics.
Kīrtanānanda: Everything is going very nice, Prabhupāda. Your palace is almost finished. Already many, many people are coming every day to see it. At least thirty a day are coming just to see your palace now, and it's not even finished. But it will be finished in a couple of months. People are talking... One lady the other day, she went in and she turned to one of the boys and she said, "I cannot tell you what I am feeling. It is so wonderful. I just cannot express it."
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is wonderful in that quarter. Hm. Let us see which palace I am going.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The ladies jump on it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So as much as it is powdered, make it ruṭi, and the hard portion make rice. The kṛṣāṇas will like, and it is very nutritious.
The newspapers were all one-hundred-percent favorable, and one even had a four-page article on ISKCON. The Gujarati ladies from Durban and Pietermaritzburg all came early to help cook puris and halavā. They cooked about one quarter ton of halavā (Prabhupāda chuckles) and over eight thousand puris, all of which were distributed. At least fifteen thousand people attended the two-day festival, and all of the most important big Indian businessmen and millionaires attended. Two days before the event, a large marquee, able to hold twenty-five hundred people, was erected, and the initiations and the play were held inside. The play especially was most successful, as the top Indian stage and lighting men in South Africa were giving us technical assistance.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Remember when we flew to Bombay that lady helped us for getting special seating?
Śatadhanya: So she very kindly made all the nice arrangements at the airport. There was a big caravan with flowers to take you to Māyāpura.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You expected Prabhupāda on that plane?
Śatadhanya: Yes. We had the car out. Everyone was expecting.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They couldn't get through in time to tell them you weren't coming, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so they were all ready at the airport with the cars.
Prabhupāda: So we failed to catch.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is your magic touch, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Anyone who contacts you becomes a devotee. You're just like the associates of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Whoever saw them...
Prabhupāda: She's already a good lady. Otherwise how she can have such nice son? (laughter)
Citsukhānanda: I asked her if she had met you, Prabhupāda. I asked Jayapatākā's mother if she had met you, and she said, "Yes..."
Prabhupāda: A fortunate lady. All your mothers, they are all fortu...
Page Title: | Lady (Conversations 1976 - 1977) |
Compiler: | Rishab, Visnu Murti, Gopinath |
Created: | 23 of Dec, 2010 |
Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=99, Let=0 |
No. of Quotes: | 99 |