Ksatriya (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"administrative class" |"administrator class" |"ksatriya" |"ksatriya's" |"ksatriyas"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 3, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Jaipuria is that old man?

Devotees: (indistinct-microphone noise)

Prabhupāda: Kanpur, which is desert practically, but they're luxurious, they're rich, why... But they're devotees at the same time. In their country (indistinct), they have got many cows. They get sufficient milk. And from that milk they prepare so many, milk, ghee, and that, they get channa. But they know how to prepare so many things, channa, dudh. (break) Yes.

Devotee (2): They are maintaining the rules.

Prabhupāda: All over India, they are not so fallen as the kṣatriyas and brāhmaṇas. (end)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 15, 1976, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Then why this statement is there, lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam? If it is approved, why Bhāgavata criticizing?

Harikeśa: Was long hair a sign of beauty in those days?

Prabhupāda: It was not meant for everyone.

Harikeśa: Kṣatriyas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...stairs first?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhudviṣa: (break) ...you were coming to Australia, we started to put in a chair lift up the stairs.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Indian man: So now everybody will go. When the rich people will take their land they have to go. They will say, "How we can live with the small land," so they will move.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating-useless waste of time—and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would give them free land. "You make your fortune—but on condition: when there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless.... "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore kṣatriyas, they were given land: "You take land as much as you like and produce but on condition that when there is war you have to join."

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is stated in Viṣṇu Purāṇa.

varṇāśramācāra-vatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

(CC Madhya 8.58)

That is said, varṇāśrama-dharma. Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, unless one comes to the regulation of varṇāśrama-dharma, that is not human civilization. That is actually the fact. That is the same dog's society. That is going on. If there is no brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa, who will give direction? There is no... If there is no kṣatriya, then who will give protection? If there is no vaiśya, then who will produce food? And if there is no śūdra, then who will work for general assistance? This is scientific.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Without varṇāśrama-dharma there is no civilization. Yes. They are trying to abolish this under the name of "caste system." It is not caste system. Caste system, or whatever you call, there must be these four division. Not four, eight. This is general, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Then, according to the brahminical culture, the spiritual, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. And after sannyāsa, then spiritual life, complete, śuddha-sattva. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you have to establish varṇāśrama. Varṇāśramācāra. Ācāra. Ācāra. Varṇāśrama ācāra. Yes. Because the aim is... Again we come to the... Just like state affairs going on, but ultimate aim is to keep the government satisfied. Then you'll get everything nicely. Similarly, the supreme government or supreme governor is God. That is your duty, to keep Him satisfied. Then you get all direction, all facilities and life. That is the aim. But these rascals, they do not know what is government or who is the governor. They are doing anything whimsically, and they're punished. Prakṛti is there. Prakṛti is there. Government does not want that you suffer, but you violate the government's law. Therefore you suffer. That these rascals do not understand. They declare, "There is no government." So this is foolishness, ignorance, mūḍha. There is government, he sees, and still he is rascal. He says, "No, no, I don't care for anyone. There is no government." That is atheism; that is hooliganism.

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: I felt uncomfortable. He was clicking his teeth and moving his hands and talking very quickly. It was very uncomfortable just to be in his presence. I was very nervous. He actually contradicted himself. I was saying we should be respected in all Hindu temples. He says, "Yes, you are Hindus." He says, "Jains and Buddhists, they are also Hindus." I said, "How is that?" He says, "Who is Buddha?" I said, "He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." He says, "No, aside from that, he is the son of a kṣatriya." I said, "Then you are bringing it back to birth again." And then he started groping for words and avoiding it. They want to make a unity of Hindus so that they can always sway elections, so that Mohammedan and Christians do not change the election.

Prabhupāda: And we want to make Mohammedans Hindus.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Indian devotee (2): Yes, to see you one evening.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...country which is desert practically, but they are luxurious, they are rich. Wife. But they're devotees at the same time. In their country also, they have got many cows. They get sufficient milk. And from that milk, they prepare so many things, milk, ghee and then they get channa. So they know how to prepare so many things from channa, laddus. (break)

Indian devotee (1): Laḍḍu. (break)

Jayapataka: They're maintaining the rules.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All over India, they're not so fallen as the kṣatriyas and brāhmaṇas. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The government's duty, then, is to protect.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is government. That is kṣatriya. Ksat trāyate iti kṣatriya. Kṣat means injury, and one who gives protection from injury, he is kṣatriya. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. As soon as he saw a cow is attempted..., immediately he said, "Who are you, rascal? You are trying to kill this cow in my kingdom?" That is kṣatriya. And nowadays, even if I kill you, the police will see from there; he'll not come. This is government. And when the finished killing, then he will say, "Who is this man?" He'll note down, "A man is killed." And then inquiry, and then finished. Who is the man killed and what is happened? Nothing of the sort. Inquiry and finish. Big commission report.

Meeting with Bankers -- April 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, so he was the father of the Yakṣas, this Kuvera. So Dhruva Mahārāja was a great devotee. You have heard the name of Dhruva Mahārāja. He was insulted by his stepmother. When he was young, very young child, so his father had two wives. So the junior wife was very pet to the husband, and the senior wife was not so much pet. But both of them had two sons. So the junior wife's son was sitting on the lap, a small child. So Dhruva Mahārāja was the son of the senior wife. As a child, he was also trying to sit down on the lap of the father. The other brother, he does not know stepbrother is brother. But the junior wife, she said, "My dear son, you cannot sit down on the lap of your father because you are not born in my womb. And that boy, the other boy, he is sitting on the lap of your father because he is born in my womb." So it was sarcastic remark, but Dhruva Mahārāja, although he was a child, four or five years old, he took it very seriously. A kṣatri..., kṣatriya... (Hindi) He became very angry. So he immediately left the place and went to his own mother, that "Stepmother has insulted me like this." He began to cry, and the mother said, "My dear son, what can I do? Your father does not treat me even as a maidservant, so I cannot take any step."

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is.... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling, and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization. Now, due to this association of the rākṣasas... Even up to Mohammedan time this civilization was being continued. Mohammedan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna.... Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor? Akbar. Akbar, Jahanghri, then Shajahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as kṣatriya king, that's all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu kṣatriya, the Musselman kṣatriya. People were satisfied: "A kṣatriya... We have to work. Somebody must be king." So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers. "All right, you remain king. Don't interfere." But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is.... The brāhmaṇa... This is brāhmaṇa. This formula is there. Satya śamo damas titikṣā ārjava. So you have to see whether he is possessing this quality. Or train them. Have brahminical school, what I am willing to do. That is required absolutely. There must be a class of men, perfect brāhmaṇa. Otherwise society will be ruined. In the Western countries there is no brāhmaṇa. There may be some kṣatriyas and vaiśyas only, and śūdras. Brāhmaṇa there is none. So the same thing is here also now. Therefore the whole society is going down. There is no brāhmaṇa. What is this? This is brahminical culture. We are asking them not to be sinful, become devotee. This is brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, for the benefit of brahminical culture and cow protection. That is brahminical culture.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They cannot earn even livelihood. Therefore śāstra says, "Don't try for these things, to increase your economic position. This is already destined. You cannot increase or decrease. Whatever you are destined, you must get it. Try to get Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

kālena sarvatra gabhīra raṁhasā

(SB 1.5.18)

You'll get. As you get miserable condition of life—you don't like it but it comes—similarly, happy condition will also come according to your destiny. Why you are wasting time for this? This is the decision of the śāstra. You cannot change your destiny. If you have to be, have to work like a coolie, even after becoming Ph.D. you'll have to work like a coolie. You cannot change it. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Jaya. This is.... Therefore formerly any man was satisfied in any position. They were not trying to develop economic condition, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. She is your daughter?

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...intelligence and kṣatriya's executive power and vaiśya's productive capacity and śūdra's labor. This combined together makes the whole society perfect.

Dr. Patel: How this social order can be generated in India?

Prabhupāda: (to passerby:) Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Indian man: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: The kṣatriya's duty is that everyone is religious. It doesn't matter whether he follows Muslim or.... That is kṣatriya's duty, not that to discriminate, "The Hindu religion is better than the Muslim religion. Muslim..." That is not the way. If everyone is religious, it doesn't matter whether he is Hindu...

Dr. Patel: No religious Muslim would have ever done harm to Hindus.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the case of Mahārāja Veṇa there was some recourse for the brāhmaṇas. What can we do?

Prabhupāda: Yes, brāhmaṇas were controlling the kṣatriyas. They were obeying the instruction of brāhmaṇas. That is social function. The first-class man will give instruction to the government, and the government will carry the order, "Whether people are actually doing this?" Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. And vaiśya will produce food grain and milk sufficiently. And the śūdras, they will help these three higher classes. That's all. This is social system. (break) The brāhmaṇas, they will be always engaged to make plan how people will be successful in the aim of life. And that will be executed through the kṣatriyas. And the vaiśyas will supply foodstuff. Food is also required. And good government is required, and nice direction is required. This is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. And śūdra, they have no brain; they will abide by the orders of these higher sections, that's all. So our movement is creating first-class brāhmaṇa, and the kṣatriyas, if they abide by our instruction-our instruction means Kṛṣṇa's instruction—then everything will be nicely done. Sannyāsīs, they have begun to keep secretaries.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Little movement is going on, we are walking. But not this severe type of exercise as surfers and fighting with the sea waves for four hours, five hours, ten hours. (devotees laugh)

Dr. Wolfe: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, a kṣatriya has to be strong.

Prabhupāda: That is a.... Kṣatriya is.... Generally...

Dr. Wolfe: And kṣatriyas have to be there.

Prabhupāda: This is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, intelligent.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: The second-class man is also described, who is the second class.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas," or the administrators.

Prabhupāda: This is second class. They are not first class, they are second class. First class is above mentioned.

Scheverman: The brāhmaṇa

Prabhupāda: Yes, then second class. Second class also required.

Scheverman: Also requires training, yes.

Prabhupāda: Suppose if there is war. So first-class men, they cannot go to fight; they are not trained up. But the second-class man who is trained up.... What is that quality?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Courage in battle."

Prabhupāda: Courage in battle. Now we have got report that in Vietnam battles, what happened?

Hari-śauri: Whenever they fight, most of the soldiers run away.

Prabhupāda: Run away. (laughter) He's fourth class. He has been placed in the second class. So how he'll do the...

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Kern: Did you then begin, after you finished the university, did you begin your writing?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I was family man. But even one is family man, he's trained up how to become God conscious. So that was the.... That is, practically every Indian, at least in our time, they were trained up how to become God conscious in the family life. Therefore there is classification—the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya. So these four classes, that first-class man, brāhmaṇa, the brain..., taking instruction from the first-class man. And then the third grade, the productive class. So you read there the third class.

Scheverman: So I can see that this is probably an important element that appeals to most of the young people that come to you is this training that can be received in this particular way. I can also see too that somewhere..., I'd like to move into this area of religious experience.

Prabhupāda: I shall request that.... There is no question of Eastern, Western. Now people are intermingling. Now I think that we shall have institution, especially in America, to train these first class, second class, third class, and the balance fourth class. Who cannot take up any training, they are fourth class. So how they should be trained up, that indication is there. It is not the question of Eastern and Western. You become peaceful...

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Because I honestly think of it. Maybe others are also honest, but they do not know the right way. How they can be honest? Just like this Communist movement. They are favoring the labor class and rejecting the capitalist class altogether. They cannot make any adjustment.

Jagadīśa: I've understood that communism is presented by the administrative class when there is a condition of scarcity. When there is opulence, then there is room for personal individual enterprise, but when there is scarcity, that cannot be encouraged, and the common people have to be subjugated. So capitalism and communism are both simply philosophies how to keep the common man satisfied. So it's simply another means of exploitation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is exploitation, and actually they have done it.

Hari-śauri: There is still one class of men living at the expense of another, whether it's Communist.... (end)

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Indian man (3): My position you mean in relation to Kṛṣṇa or in relation to the world?

Prabhupāda: No, in relation to the world. In relationship with the world, therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). What is your quality? Then you are classified as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, as a śūdra. Then your duty. First of all you must know what you are, what is your position. Then there is duty.

Indian man (1): is it right that if you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all the duties are automatically taken care of?

Prabhupāda: All the duties, the summarization of duty: ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There are different duties, but the real duty is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13), whether you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll have done all.... Ataḥ pumbhiḥ. Because there are different types of duties. But whatever you do, the success is whether by your duty you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Then it is successful.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa will say sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66)? Because by that action everything will be done. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam, that means He is cheating? There are so many other occupations, say veda-dharma, samāja-dharma, brāhmaṇa-dharma, kṣatriya-dharma, medical dharma, lawyer dharma. You can manufacture so many occupations. Dharma means occupational duty. But if you take only one occupational duty, to serve Kṛṣṇa, all things will be included. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is instruction. So to accept this principle means firm determination, firm conviction: "Yes, if I serve Kṛṣṇa, then all my other duties will be automatically done." This is firm conviction. "By one stroke, I'll kill so many birds."

Kulādri: Anartha-nivṛtti?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Kulādri: Rūpa Gosvāmī says bhajana-kriyā and then anārtha-nivṛtti. Then all the unwanted things go away.

Prabhupāda: First of all, beginning with kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. So bhakti, beginning is ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅga bhajana-kriyā anartha-nivṛttiḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). The material world means simply creating unnecessary duties.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Reporter: "So if we don't choose our leaders by popular election, how will society be governed?"

Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we are actually doing that. But in the case of politics they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness. Because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities. If we do not know the art then we will fail, because unless there is a division of work there will be havoc. We have discussed all the responsibilities of the king in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The different classes in society should cooperate exactly as the different parts of the body do. Although each part is meant for a different purpose, they all work for one cause, to maintain the body properly."

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Reporter: "Has God also devised the most perfect government?"

Prabhupāda: "Oh, yes. The kṣatriyas ruled the government in Vedic times. When there was a war, the king was the first to fight. Just like your George Washington. He fought when there was a war. But what kind of president is ruling now? When there is a war he sits very securely and telephones orders. He's not fit to be president. When there is war the president should be the first to come forward and lead the battle."

Reporter: "But if man is small and imperfect, how can he execute God's perfect orders for a perfect government?"

Prabhupāda: "Although you may be imperfect, because you are carrying out my order, you become perfect. You have accepted me as your leader, and I accept God as my leader. In this way society can be governed perfectly."

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "You cannot directly accept the Supreme Being. You must accept the servants of the Supreme Being, the brāhmaṇas or Vaiṣṇavas, devotees of the Lord, as your guides. The government men are the kṣatriyas, the second class. The kṣatriyas should take advice from the brāhmaṇas or Vaiṣṇavas and make laws accordingly. The vaiśyas should carry out the kṣatriyas' orders in practice, and the śūdras should work under these three orders, then society will be perfect." The end of the article.

Prabhupāda: You like this?

Kīrtanānanda: Very nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: Right to the point.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They can make a big plane, but they can't make a mosquito. It's so thought-provoking. Here's that article by Dharmādhyakṣa that you liked.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That article about, he wrote from Vancouver. It was in that small pamphlet that they sent to Los Angeles. "Simple Living and High Thinking." It had a picture of a forest, a stream in the background, and your picture in a little square was superimposed over it.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No. There are so many. Hmm. What is that?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purport? "There are many pseudo meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Kṛṣṇa did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set forth for kṣatriyas. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder kṣatriya. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart of a mundane man and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture. After all, one has to maintain one's body and soul together by some work. Work should not be given up capriciously, without purification of materialistic propensities. Anyone who is in the material world is certainly possessed of the impure propensity for lording it over material nature, or, in other words, for sense gratification. Such polluted propensities have to be cleared. Without doing so, through prescribed duties, one should never attempt to become a so-called transcendentalist, renouncing work and living at the cost of others."

Prabhupāda: That is not the right way. Kṛṣṇa never said to Arjuna that "You haven't got to fight. You sit down, I shall do everything." He never said that. "You have to fight." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyaśacin. "And the result is already created by Me, but you have to make a manifestation of fighting." Just like our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Within eight or ten years we have developed so much. Is it humanly possible? It is Kṛṣṇa's plan. But Kṛṣṇa says that "You go and preach. Take the credit." Yes. It is His plan. Actually everything is done by Kṛṣṇa. He gives the credit to His devotee, that's all. You know the history of the Detroit temple (laughs)?

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So vittam, money. Money is the criterion, not family. Formerly, there was family, respectable family, aristocratic family, brāhmaṇa family, kṣatriya family. All these things are gone now. If you accumulate some money some way or other, then you are respectable, never mind what you are. That is Kali-yuga symptom, that position in society, if you want to be respectable man, you somehow or other gather money. Never mind how we have gathered, what is the method. It doesn't matter. Get some money and you become respectable. Vittam eva hi.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So where is that institution to train people to acquire these transcendental qualities? There is no such institution. We are attempting to qualify the man in transcendental qualities. This is the only institution. Otherwise, where it is? I don't think, throughout the whole world, there is any institution to train the students in transcendental qualities. Who cares for transcendental qualities? Go on.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "In the varṇāśrama institution the sannyāsī, or the person in the renounced order of life, is considered to be the head or the spiritual master of all the social statuses and orders. A brāhmaṇa is considered to be the spiritual master of the three other sections of society, namely the kṣatriya, the vaiśya and the śūdra. But a sannyāsī, who is on the top of the institution, is considered to be the spiritual master of the brāhmaṇas also. For a sannyāsī the first qualification should be fearlessness. Because a sannyāsī has to be alone without any support or guarantee of support, he has simply to depend on the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If he thinks 'After leaving my connections, who will protect me?' he should not accept the renounced order of life. One must be fully convinced that Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His localized aspect as Paramātmā, is always within, and He is seeing everything, and that He always knows what one intends to do. One must have this firm conviction that Kṛṣṇa as Paramātmā will take care of a soul surrendered unto Him. 'I shall never be alone,' one should think..."

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Don't divert your attention.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Discuss on this point.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They may say that we have arbitrarily given some specific duties to different people.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They may say that we have arbitrarily given, that the kṣatriyas are supposed to kill, like this. But actually everyone should be a good man.

Prabhupāda: Not arbitrarily. It is given by Kṛṣṇa. It is not arbitrary. By the supreme order. How they can say it is arbitrary? Then what is the use of referring to Bhagavad-gītā? Things may not be arbitrary, whimsical, therefore we have to take reference from Bhagavad-gītā. Lawbook. When a judge gives his judgement, he does not give it arbitrarily. There is lawbooks. So there is no question of arbitrary. The reference is there. How you can say it is arbitrary? That is not a fact. Śāstra-vidhi. Rather, if you don't care for śāstra-vidhi, then he'll never be successful. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya, in this chapter you'll find.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They were happy. Otherwise they could not fight. They are not Vietnam soldiers, when they are attacked they are going away. They are not like that. They are determined that "I'll either lay down life or gain victory." That is their... They were not afraid of fighting. Do you think they were afraid of fighting? That is real kṣatriya. Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. That is real kṣatriya training.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I mean to say that they may consider that this is a selfish type of happiness, though. Not taking into consideration...

Prabhupāda: They may think... They are rascals, they cannot think anything. We haven't got to reply all of them. Because they are rascals. They can talk all nonsense. We haven't got to take care of... Just like a child, he's talking so many foolish things. Sometimes we reply, "Yes, yes, we know." But we don't take seriously anything, anything spoken by a child. So these rascals may go on talking so many things, but we haven't got to take care of all of them. We have to do our own business. Let the dog bark on, the caravan will pass. So not that we have to take care of the barking of the dog always.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Then? It is the same thing. Suppose Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja has brought this car, so he says, "All of you can come." So I go, you go, does it mean that you and your spiritual master is equal? Do you think like that? It is same thing. Everyone can go to Godhead, there is no doubt, but still there is difference between brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, śūdras. So far going into the car, the equal right is there, but it does not mean that your spiritual master or the next group, they are not greater than you. Don't think like that. The same car, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is driving, I am also there, you are also there. Does it mean that we are all equal? There must be gradation. The right is given to everyone. It does not mean that immediately they become all one. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He accepted everyone, "Come on." But the distinction is there. We are inviting everyone to partake Kṛṣṇa prasādam. That does not mean that immediately all of them have become of the equal rank. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was so kind, but still there was distinction. When He was taking prasādam, personal associates, they were sitting with Him. Is it not? So this is called maryādā. Maryādā means honor. That must... Varieties must be there.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they are escaping." Yes, escaping your fruitless endeavor. So the Vedic civilization was meant for self-realization. Vedic civilization begins from the varṇāśrama system. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). How to realize Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore the system is varṇāśrama. In another place it is said, tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer (SB 1.5.17). The varṇāśrama means there is division: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. But the ultimate goal is viṣṇur ārādhyate. The Supreme Lord should be worshiped. That is the idea. So if Viṣṇu ārādhana is available immediately, then you can give up all other occupational duty as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, as a śūdra, as a brahmacārī, everything. Take to it, immediately, to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is so important. But that they do not know. Therefore there is no religion. A simply dog's race. The dog is running on four legs and you are running on four wheels. That's all. And they think the four-wheel race is advancement of civilization. But the Vedic civilization is different. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). Then one can say that "Then we shall do nothing?" Yes, practically it is said, "Do nothing." Whatever is obtainable by you or destiny, you'll get it wherever you are. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You'll get it.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone, for all people. There must be on the head the intelligent class of men who will give advice. Then next class, the... That is all given in the Bhagavad-gītā. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. But when you become Kṛṣṇa conscious you can give up all these regulative principles directly. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). A brāhmaṇa-dharma, kṣatriya-dharma, or this dharma, that dharma, Hindu dharma, Mussulman dharma. If you have everything, simply... Because the ultimate aim of dharma is to come to Kṛṣṇa. "You directly come to Me; then everything is all right."

Devotee: So many other people, they concoct their own system and they say "This is the way to go to God."

Prabhupāda: Then let them suffer. What can be done? What can be done? If you don't take the laws of the state, you manufacture your own laws, then you'll suffer. If the state says, "Keep to the right," and if make your own law, "No, keep to the left," then you'll suffer. It's a fact.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But it cannot be done. This is another foolishness. Because Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). But the difficulty is the caste system is coming on account of false notion that a brāhmaṇa is the son of a brāhmaṇa. That is caste system. But Kṛṣṇa does not say. He says, "By quality and work." He never says, "By birth." So this so-called castism in India that is a false notion of cātur-varṇyaṁ. Real cātur-varṇyaṁ means guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. One must be qualified. And how one is qualified? That is also described. Satya śamo damo titikṣva ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. So there must be education. It is not that to abolish the caste system which is contaminated by false conception, or birth right conception. This wrong caste system should be abolished and training centers should be opened how to train a person to become brāhmaṇa or to become kṣatriya. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. So you cannot avoid it, but because you have misconceived the caste system, that should be abolished, and the system recommended by Kṛṣṇa, that should be taken. Otherwise you cannot avoid it. Caste system will remain. Just like truthfulness. So all over the world you'll find somebody who is truthful.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You cannot abolish the truthful class of men. There are... You'll find truthful men everywhere. So you have to pick up. So Kṛṣṇa says that, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā, guṇa-karma... You pick up the quality of men and put them in the brahminical class, and then next, kṣatriya class, then vaiśya class, then śūdra class. But you cannot abolish that system. That is a false attempt. Because more or less, there will be a class of men who are truthful. You cannot abolish. More or less, there will be a class of men who are sinful. So as soon as you want to pick up from a family, then it is mistake, miscalculated. That caste system should be abolished. But real classification... Not caste. It is classification. Intelligent class of men, or truthful class of men, the fighter class of men, that will continue all over the world. You cannot abolish it. Even if you abolish caste system in India, you cannot abolish the class of truthful men. That is not possible. In spite of so much degradation, a class of men will remain truthful, a class of men will remain sinful. More or less. You cannot abolish this. So this is false attempt. And this caste system is also false. It is not based on the right description of caste system.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda, fifteen. "Hinduism has been defined as a way of life."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is the way. That, I have already described it. It is not a sectarianism like Muslimism, Christianism or "Thisism..." Hinduism also now one of them. Actually, it is a way of life, varṇāśrama-dharma, how to become elevated to the spiritual platform. So that begins by the varṇāśrama-dharma, to select persons according to his capacity to different varṇas. Some of them selected, trained as brāhmaṇas. Some of them trained as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya, some of them as, remain... Those who cannot take any training, they are śūdras. So in the ways (indistinct) there must be social division not by birth, but by education. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That we have lost. The so-called Hinduism they have lost. And because they did not follow real varṇāśrama-dharma, therefore India, so many renegades, Muslim became... Once they become Muslim, there was no reformation. But according to Vedic principle, even one is fallen, he can be raised to the highest standard. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). One may... Saṁskārād bhaved dvija.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hinduism has been defined as a way of life. In...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the way of life, that by reformatory process recommended in the śāstras one should be elevated to the position of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdra. Śudra means one who cannot take any reformation. But one who can take up the reformation, he can be situated as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. This is not by birth, but by education, by training. That is recommended for the all human society. Not for the Hindus or... Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says pāpa-yoni? Pāpa-yoni. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās. They are also taken as pāpa-yoni. And what to speak of the śūdras and caṇḍālas? They must be pāpa-yoni. Only the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But nowadays, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age you cannot distinguish who is brāhmaṇa, who is kṣatriya, who is a vaiśya, who is a śūdra. It is accepted that everyone is a śūdra because there is no reformation. So according to Pāñcarātriki-vidhi everyone should be given the chance of becoming a Vaiṣṇava, a dvija. And that is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that by the proper initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija, twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Then he's allowed to read the scripture. Veda-pathād bhaved vipraḥ. He becomes vipra. Then when he really comes to the knowledge of Brahman, his relationship with Brahman, and acts accordingly, then he is brāhmaṇa. And when he is perfectly situated in the eternal relationship with God, Viṣṇu, then he becomes a Vaiṣṇava. That is perfection of life.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So our business is to stop slaughter. Meat-eating we cannot stop. Certain persons, they must eat. They are fourth-class, and then fifth-class men. There are four classifications—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and caṇḍāla. Caṇḍālas, they will remain, and they are eating. Let them eat meat. That is the system in India still. It is not that in India nobody's eating meat. The cobbler class, they eat; the caṇḍāla class, they eat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even cows, cow flesh.

Prabhupāda: Dead. This cow killing has been introduced by these Britishers.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Christian.

Prabhupāda: Christians.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of gṛhastha or sannyāsī. It is a question of understanding. And Arjuna is gṛhastha, politician, fighter, and still he is selected to understand Bhagavad-gītā. So gṛhastha. (Hindi) ...in gṛhastha life or sannyāsī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says like that, :kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya. (Hindi) I shall speak in English so that others.... Kibā vipra, whether one is a brāhmaṇa, kibā śūdra, or whether he is a śūdra, nyāsī kene naya, or whether he is a sannyāsī. That means whether he is a gṛhastha or brāhmaṇa, or.... There are eight varṇāśrama—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, whatever he may be, out of these eight categories.

kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya

(CC Madhya 8.128)

Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa perfectly, he is guru. Just like Arjuna is our guru, but he's a gṛhastha, he's a soldier, he's a kṣatriya. He's neither brāhmaṇa nor sannyāsī nor Vedantist, nothing of the sort. But he knows Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is guru. So gṛhastha (Hindi). Śravaṇam, this is the first step of bhakti. Hear about Kṛṣṇa from the right source. Otherwise you will be misguided. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to go to a person where you can surrender.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) He's a person, sun-god. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), a person. That is his planet. He is the predominating Deity. And similarly moon. And the kṣatriyas, they are coming from these two planets. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave... Ikṣvāku is the sūrya-vaṁśa, the kṣatriya family coming from the sun.

Yadubara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're taking this from the Bhāgavatam. Won't they just think that this is myth?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) is myth? Who believes you? If you don't believe me, I don't believe you. Finished.

Yadubara: So we should present our side.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our business. If you don't believe me I don't believe you. Finished business. You have got your authority, I've got my authority. Why shall I...?

Hari-śauri: Actually we have authority and they have no authority.

Prabhupāda: What is your age? You are all scientists within 200 years. And our Bhāgavata is written 5,000 years ago. Why shall I accept yours?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam

(SB 1.2.13)

Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is karma. Karma means according to that division, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Karma means activity. There must be some prescribed activity. Just like you are professor, you have got your prescribed activities. He's the minister of ambassador's, he has got prescribed activities. So everyone has got prescribed activities in whatever position he is, but what is the standard of success, that I have done my duties, prescribed duties properly? What is that standard? The standard is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam: (SB 1.2.13) whether you have satisfied the Supreme Personality of Godhead by your duty. Then it is success.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They should be trained up. Therefore Vedic civilization is training. Some section of the people, they should be very intellectuals, brain, just like to maintain this body we require first of all the brain. If the brain is not order, then other parts, they may be there, but they are also useless. So similarly, in the society, some intellectuals should be maintained. They are called brāhmaṇas, and some of the brāhmaṇas, they are sannyāsīs. They are simply meant for giving good instruction. They should personally become very good and intellectual, and they should give instruction to other people what is the value of life, how to live. This is one section. They should be free from the anxiety of maintaining themselves. The society should treat them as children and give them all necessities, bare necessities, not they are meant for living very luxuriously. No. Simple living. Then the next class, kṣatriyas, the politicians, administrators, they are also required to give protection to the people from injury. Kṣatriya, kṣat means injury, and trāyate, "one who saves people from injury." It is kṣatriya's duty. So kṣatriya should protect all the living entities, including the animals. They are also subjects. So the first, intellectual brāhmaṇas, then kṣatriya. Then vaiśyas, their business is to produce food. Food production you can do by agriculture, kṛṣi, and by giving protection to the cows. If you get sufficient food grains, like rice, wheat, pulses, and sufficient milk—from milk you get yogurt, butter, ghee—then your all food problem is solved. You must eat. You must eat, you must live properly. So this first, second, third, the intellectual class, the administrative class, and the productive class, these three classes must be there in the society.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is Vedic system of division. Brāhmaṇa... This is for our living condition, and then human life especially meant for spiritual realization, self-realization. For that purpose, again, another four divisions. Generally, the brahmacārī, student life; gṛhastha, married life; vānaprastha, retired life; and sannyāsa, renounced life. So at the end of life one should be renounced from all other responsibilities and completely devote his life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. In this way, when a person dies in God consciousness, his life is perfect. This is Vedic civilization. Eight divisions, varṇa and āśrama. And if you simply produce śūdras, working class, then you cannot have any happiness. That is not possible. And nowadays democratic, if you send some śūdras to act as kṣatriyas, they cannot do it. You have got practical experience. In Vietnam, what happened?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And when they were attacked, they were running away. Because they are śūdras. How they can fight? They are not trained up as kṣatriyas. Huh? Anyone who is unemployed, let him become a soldier, but he cannot fight. That is not possible. Neither this class of men can have good brain to give direction to the society. The democracy means anyone can go to the government, and because he's not kṣatriya, his only business is how to get money so long he's on the post. Just like you did not like your President, Mr. Nixon. So that is the risk. If you keep the society in chaotic condition, any department, intellectual, administration, production, they'll be all topsy turvey, and there cannot be any peace in the world. So this Vedic scheme, varṇāśrama, is a very important scheme. If possible it should be introduced and taken up very seriously. That is one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to reestablish the institution of varṇa and āśrama. Not by birth, but by qualification. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa-karma, by quality. In India, the varṇāśrama is there, but it is not organized because the government does not take care. The government is imitating Western way of life, "There is no need of brāhmaṇa, there is no need of kṣatriya, simply śūdras." Everywhere this is the position, the śūdra population, kalau śūdra sambhavaḥ. In this age everyone is a śūdra. So it doesn't matter, everyone is born śūdra, but he should be trained up. Just like in our practical life we see that everyone is not born a scientist or engineer or lawyer. Everyone is born innocent, child, then he's trained up by the guardians. Similarly, there should be a training how to become brāhmaṇa, how to become kṣatriya, how to become vaiśya. And the government should see that everyone, as he is trained up, he is working according to his quality and occupational duty. Then there will be complete peace and harmony. That human society is perfect.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: How there can be, because the democracy? You are corrupt, therefore your government is corrupt. You correct yourself, the government will be automatically corrected. If you are rascals, the government will be rascals. The government means elected. So if you are not rascal, you'll not elect another rascal to take charge of the government affairs. But because you are rascal, you'll send another rascal. So how can you expect good government? You do not know whom to select. And besides that, the whole population is rascal, śūdra. So anyone you elect, if he's by qualification he's a śūdra, worker, he's not intelligent person, he's not brāhmaṇa, he's not kṣatriya. Actually, the legislative assembly, or in your country, Senate? They should be all brāhmaṇas. They give advice. Formerly this was the system. Although it was monarchy, even Lord Rāmacandra or similar kings, they were not ruling independently—they were taking advice from learned brāhmaṇas, sages. So the legislative assembly should be composition of intellectual brāhmaṇas. Then the other administrators, the President or the minister, they should be kṣatriyas. In this way, if social organization is made, then there will be perfect peace. If śūdras are allowed to rule over, what they know? Their only aim is that so long he is in the office, "Let me collect some money," that's all.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There were many brāhmaṇas? Who said?

Vipina: Well there's..., well, there was, they were great kings, right? But they didn't agree on how..., who should have the kingdom? Arjuna and his relatives were in disagreement, great kṣatriya leaders.

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas, they are not brāhmaṇas. So when there is disagreement, there is fight. The battle will decide. That is always, at the present moment also. When there is disagreement between nation and nation, there is war declaration. That is natural.

Vipina: This is Mr. Furman and his wife, Prabhupāda. Mr. Furman was the man who sold us this property.

Mr. Furman: Glad to meet you, Your Divine Grace. My wife, Lynn.

Prabhupāda: I'm very glad to see you.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: Sve sve karmaṇi. "A man can become perfect by doing his prescribed duty."

Prabhupāda: Yes, it's a fact. If you work as a brāhmaṇa, if you are thinking yourself as a brāhmaṇa, then you act as brāhmaṇa. You cannot act as a śūdra. As a brāhmaṇa you cannot accept anyone's service, then you become śūdra. You deviate from your own position. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they'll never accept anyone's service, only the śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). When you live at the mercy of others, this is called dog's business. Just like a dog lives at the mercy of the master. So it is strictly prohibited for the brāhmaṇas. Even in very difficult position, you can act as a kṣatriya, you can act as a vaiśya, but never accept the position of a dog, a śūdra. This is the injunction. Sve sve karmaṇi, you stick to your own business. If you claim as a brāhmaṇa, then you must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then you'll become successful. You cannot remain a brāhmaṇa and accept the business of a dog, that is not sve sve karmaṇi. So everything, what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is perfect. People at the present moment, they are living at the mercy of others. That is dog's business. Therefore (in) the śāstra it is said kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is a śūdra. There is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. That is generally accepted.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Either you become woman or vaiśya or śūdra, it doesn't matter, or any other pāpa-yoni, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, te 'pi yānti parām (BG 9.32). So this is the most liberal movement, that it doesn't matter what you are, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness then you become perfect. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He's on the Brahman platform, above all these different modes of material nature. These brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, these are differences on the material platform. But when you come to the spiritual platform, there is no such difference. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). So we are trying to bring everyone to that spiritual platform. Therefore they cannot understand. They vision everything from materialistic point of view. They have no idea of spiritual life, therefore they misunderstand. But if we read thoroughly Bhagavad-gītā, then everything is clear. Sve sve karmaṇi means he must act according to his position. If he claims to become a brāhmaṇa, he must act as brāhmaṇa. Guṇa-karma. If you actually have the brāhmaṇa's qualification, you must act as a brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, what is the use of claiming that "I am a brāhmaṇa"? That is not accepted.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is there, the four divisions of human society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So each one's duty is prescribed. Brāhmaṇa's duty, kṣatriya's duty, vaiśya's duty, śūdra's duty, brahmacārī's duty, everything is there.

Guest (3): But then you said before that if I think I'm brahmacārī, then I should be a brahmacārī. If I become a śūdra, I act as a śūdra.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you act as a brahmacārī, do your brahmacārī work, you'll be successful.

Guest (3): But how do I know that I am thinking properly?

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say it is mentioned in the śāstra, brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). If you want to be a lawyer, you must know the law. Without knowing the law, how you become a lawyer? Without knowing the engineering art, how you become engineer? So either you become a brahmacārī, gṛhastha or vānaprastha, sannyāsī, or anything, you must know what you are meant for. Without knowing, how you can become brahmacārī?

Guest (3): I must know what I am meant for.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Practice this. Your mind, when he says something hodgepodge, just beat him with shoes. Just to bring him in order. Here is the real understanding, that

naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā

tvat prasādān mayācyuta

sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ

kariṣye vacanaṁ tava

(BG 18.73)

This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whether you are prepared to act according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Otherwise you are in darkness. So as Arjuna, he was in the darkness... He's kṣatriya. The fight was arranged between the two sections of the family, Pāṇḍavas and Kurus, and when he was to fight actually with his family members, he became bewildered, that "Kṛṣṇa, what is this? I'll have to kill my family members." So then he became His disciple, that "I am kṣatriya, it is my duty to fight. Now I am hesitating." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ (BG 2.7). "I'm just deviating from my duty, so Kṛṣṇa, I accept You as my guru-kindly give me instruction." So that Bhagavad-gītā was given instruction... (break) He agreed, "Yes, now my illusion is over, I shall fight." This is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. If you follow Arjuna as he understood, then your understanding of Bhagavad-gītā is perfect. If you do not understand, then you have not understood what is Kṛṣṇa's speaking and what is Bhagavad-gītā.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like... These are all discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā, what kind of social arrangement should be. That... It is called varṇāśrama-dharma. A brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—these are different groups, and if they are favorably trained up then spiritual understanding becomes very easy.

Interviewer: Can you tell me a little bit about the future direction of the movement, how you plan to expand.

Prabhupāda: That is... That is going on already. Just like these boys, they did not know about Kṛṣṇa some years ago, but they are taking seriously. The same process, if it is continued, then people will take.

Rāmeśvara: In other words, Prabhupāda sees that if we just continue the programs that he has introduced, just like we have already become members, similarly, many others will continue to become members in the future if we just continue the same programs which made us members, namely the chanting of the mantra, distributing of the books, distribution of the...

Prabhupāda: And following the regulative principles.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Real Vedic principle is called varṇāśrama. Observing the principle of four varṇas. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. It is a very long science. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This is called varṇa. And brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. This is called āśrama. So the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma, not Hindu dharma. This is later contribution of the so-called scholars.

Interviewer: Well ah, I thank you very much for your time, your Grace, and I'm glad I finally got acquainted with you. I missed you in Brooklyn.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Interviewer: I missed you in Brooklyn, I came over there and you were in the backyard, I think you were asleep or having a backrub or something. So I didn't get to see you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the daytime I am...

Interviewer: It was good to catch you this time and I hope to see you again.

Prabhupāda: So kindly put the matter properly because people misunderstand on account of their ignorance they misunderstand our, movement.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And you are journalist, you are not expected to become a motor mechanic or a medical man. But your function is also required in the society. Similarly, the Vedic society was divided into different sections. That is called varṇāśrama-four varṇas, four āśramas. That is very scientific. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this system of division of society. It is perfect society. Therefore we are trying to introduce the varṇāśrama system, although it is very difficult nowadays. But if one becomes a devotee, which is above varṇāśrama-dharma, then the purpose is solved. In this age, although varṇāśrama-dharma is very scientific, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this, but we are mostly trying to get to the topmost part of varṇāśrama, sannyāsa, or above that. That means Vaiṣṇava. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). One can immediately transcend the jurisdiction of three modes of material nature if he engages himself in the devotional service of the Lord.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Satsvarūpa: But he was a demon.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Satsvarūpa: Born as a demon, in a demon family, not a demon.

Prabhupāda: Demon family. Viṣṇu-dveṣī(?). Still, they are kṣatriyas. Just like the Europeans and Americans, they were kṣatriyas, now they have become demons. Actually they are kṣatriyas. I have studied. And the Jews are vaiśyas. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: The Jews are vaiśyas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why they call them the American Marwaris.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They know how to do business and earn money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of your disciples are Jewish.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they know how to make money.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: "According to the rules and regulations mentioned above, one who is twice-born, namely a brahmana, ksatriya or vaisya, should reside in the gurukula under the care of the spiritual master. There he should study and learn all the Vedic literatures along with their supplements and Upanisads, according to his ability and power to study. If possible, the student or disciple should reward the spiritual master with the remuneration the spiritual master requests, and then, following the master's order, the disciple should leave and accept one of the other āśramas, namely the grhastha āśrama, vanaprastha āśrama, or sannyasa āśrama, as he desires."

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: He had Kumar Shankar, the brother of Ravi Shankar, cooking for him. So this man is a demon; therefore he is becoming sick.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are all drunkards, all third-class men, fourth-class men, low-class men. In India, this naṭas, they are third class, fourth class. Naṭas means the artist class, singer, dancers. They are meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. It was never taken by the.... They are called, and they will expertly sing, dance, in some festival. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they were not doing. Still in India there is a class, very expert in dancing, singing, low class. Their hereditary business is like that.

Bhagavān: So you have given everything. You have given all the structure. We have to present it rightly.

Prabhupāda: Even, say, hundred years ago, that Girish Chandra Ghosh, he wanted to introduce theatrical performances, imitating the European theatrical performances, man and woman taking part. So he wanted to invite woman artist. Not a single woman joined. Who will go to public stage to dance, respectable girl? They'll never. That is hundred years. I am speaking, say, about forty years ago. In one of our Dayanika(?) men, the girl was to be married, and it is the custom in India—the bridegroom's party comes to see the girl, whether she is right.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Āryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Āryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they will be fair complexion. Śūdras, black. So if a brāhmaṇa becomes black, then he's not accepted as brāhmaṇa. Kāla bahu (?). And if a śūdra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure śūdra. Although we do not take very, but, this brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and śūdras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.

Hari-śauri: Still, we still met a lot of people in India who are actually following the regulative principles just as a matter of social training. But they're becoming very few now.

Prabhupāda: In, actually, in Bengal, Bengal has lost its original culture. In other provinces the brāhmaṇa class, they are keeping very strictly the original culture. Even a brāhmaṇa would not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife, because woman is considered śūdra. The woman, when she becomes the wife of a brāhmaṇa, then she is called brāhmaṇī, but she's not offered brahminical culture. She remains as śūdra. So therefore a strict brāhmaṇa does not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: And if you do it very carefully, then you'll never get disease. Take simple food, neat and clean, you'll not get disease. So everything depends on eating to keep the health proper. But these things can be simplified when the life is simple. If I go to work in office at this time, then so many things become topsy-turvied. But if you depend on yourself, either as a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya, you haven't got to depend on others, then you can do timely. Now we have to go fifty miles at least to attend office. In your country at least, this is the system. They are coming from Long Island, Liberty Island. In New York I have seen. Three, four hours to go to work. And again three, four hours to come to home. And work there eight hours. Then what is value? He's shattered. He has no other solace than wine, and he has no other culture. No family, dog friend (laughter) and television idea, that's all. What his life? Every man has got a dog friend because he has no family. Men, women, and television, engagement, I have seen it, all this, in New York.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Vittam means money. So if you have got money, then you are coming from high family. There is no consideration of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. If you have got money, then you are everything. Vittam eva hi?

Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. That is practical, we see. If you have got money, then people will come to you, "Oh, you are so learned, you are so qualified." Just like George, or John Lennon. What qualification they have got? But people will go there and take them as very highly learned and scholar and everything. The press reporters take their opinion. But what is their qualification? The qualification, by selling some records they have got money, that's all. What is that qualification? Now of course, they are coming to, George at least, coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, from qualification point of view, they are not learned, educated in university, nor they have got any spiritual assets, born brāhmaṇa family, nothing. Simply money. We also go and flatter them to get some money (laughs). So this is Kali-yuga. Vittam eva. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore people are after, so much after money. Vittam eva, hmm? Read that?

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: One of the questions Iranians ask a lot is that if He is giving us intelligence, why doesn't He give us enough intelligence so that we could be God conscious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, He's giving. Read the Bhagavad-gītā. But you rascals don't accept, what can be done? God is personally coming to give you intelligence, take this intelligence. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). "I come when there is no intelligence, when you are all rascals, I come to give you intelligence, but you don't take, what can I do?" That is God's mission, that "These rascals, without properly being guided they'll go to hell. Let Me give them some intelligence." That is Bhagavad-gītā, that is Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna is kārpaṇya doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "I have become confused, so give me intelligence." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). He's taking intelligence, how to tackle the situation. He was confused. He was to fight as a kṣatriya, but he saw that the persons with whom he has to fight, they are all family members. So what kind of fight is that? Who is fighting with family members? That was his confusion. Suppose we are Kṛṣṇa conscious society.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because we have no, that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.

Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system (much airplane noise-indistinct) this open Democracy is not a (indistinct) by consensus...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is śūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "crazy," śūdra will be on the power. So they can...

Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brāhmaṇa? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brāhmaṇa." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brāhmaṇa he'll be hammerman. In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Ah, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So where is rājarṣi? That is the difficulty. Where is that brāhmaṇa, where is that kṣatriya, where is that system? Now anyone can capture the political power by hook and crook, that is another thing. But it is meant for the rājarṣi, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Where is their training? The politician, where he is trained up as ṛṣi? There is no such service.

Interviewer (4): Has there been any official opposition to your movement in any country?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Interviewer (3): Your movement is spreading largely. Do you think that it will be welcome in the Communist countries?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have been in Moscow. I saw many learned professors. We are selling our books there.

Interviewer (3): You are selling your books in Moscow?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Everyone, every intelligent man will accept. We are selling books in East Germany, which is Communist. They are taking our books.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So nature's law is there, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are not independent. We are dependent under the laws of material nature. So we should properly utilize this human form of life, and government or king means to guide the citizens how to make progress of life. That is the duty of the government. They should be given all chances to make progress. Formerly, all the kings were responsible for the progress of the citizens, progress of life. The same principle should be followed. That is the statement of the śāstra. The brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. To maintain the body, just like we require the head, the arms, the belly, and the legs, similarly, we must maintain the brain of the society, the brāhmaṇa; and the arms of the society, kṣatriyas; and the belly of the society, the vaiśyas; and the legs of the society, the śūdra. Everything is required. Not that simply brain is required and leg is not required. No, everything is required under proper guidance for the total benefit of the society. So direction is there. That is śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya... If we do not care for the śāstra, whimsically manufacture our own ways of life, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti, it will never be successful. Na sukham. And there will be no happiness. Na parāṁ gatim. Therefore the whole process is yajñārthāt karmaṇa. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Yajña means the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu. Yajña means yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. After performing yajña, if we enjoy life, then there is no sinful reaction.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The varṇāśrama-dharma, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, this is plan just to teach the whole society how to perform yajña. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. Therefore this is the beginning of human civilization. Varṇāśrama. How to return back. Just like Bali Mahārāja. Bali Mahārāja achieved, obtained, throughout the universe all the property, and he again returned to Vāmana. That was his success of life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to teach people how one should voluntarily return the property of the Lord to the Lord. That is called yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). So people actually suffering. Not only... This material life means suffering. We may say that we are very happy, but that is not the fact. Tri-tāpa, three kinds of miserable condition of life are there always, adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. But we are accustomed to suffering, and we say suffering is happiness. That is called māyā. Actually, material life is... This body, as soon as we get this body, it means suffering.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian (1): Yes, varṇāśrama, I wanted to, Swamiji...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. The varṇa and āśrama I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, varṇāśrama means the head—brāhmaṇa; the arms—kṣatriya; the belly—vaiśya; and the leg—śūdra. So by nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. Brāhmaṇa. Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or kṣatriya department. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam(?). The kṣatriyas are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent. Immediately Kṛṣṇa chastised him, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam akīrti-karam. So everything is required. It is not that everyone should become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible that everyone should be able to become brāhmaṇa. It is not so easy thing. But a class of brāhmaṇa must be maintained. A class of brāhmaṇa must be there as ideal to consult with them. Similarly, a class of kṣatriya must be there, a class of vaiśya must be there. This is called varṇāśrama.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: As there are different educational system, there must be an educational institute where these things are taught: how to become truthful, how to become self-controlled, how to become full in knowledge, how to become full believer in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Āstikyam. In this way, as there is necessity of engineer, as there is necessity of medical man, as there is necessity of so many other departmental chiefs, similarly, a department of brāhmaṇa, a department of kṣatriya—that education must be given. But in this age, because nobody is interested, so everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Everyone, all over the world, they are being educated to seek after some good service. Paricarya: he must have a good master; then his education will be... He cannot act independently. So therefore in the śāstra it is said that everyone is anxious to get a good job, therefore, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ, in this age almost everyone is śūdra. So if śūdras are there only, if there is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśyas, that society will not prosper very much. If we accept the injunction of the śāstra, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma (BG 16.23). So this brāhmaṇa, or kṣatriya, vaiśya, it is not by birth. It is by qualification. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa. One must acquire the quality of brāhmaṇa and he must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then he is brāhmaṇa. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Even in śūdra family, if one is born śūdra, but he has attained the quality of a brāhmaṇa, he must be accepted as brāhmaṇa. That is the śāstra injunction.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: If the quality of brāhmaṇa is found in a person who is born in a śūdra family, he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. Similarly, if the quality of brāhmaṇa is found in śūdra or the śūdra quality found in brāhmaṇa, I mean to say birth, by caste, as it is going on now, so Nārada Muni has said... This is the statement of Nārada Muni, the greatest authority. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). So birth is not the final thing. If one is born in a brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family, he has got the facility to become quickly a brāhmaṇa; but if he has no quality, if he does not practice, then he is not to be accepted as brāhmaṇa. You may be a son of a high-court judge, but unless you have got the quality of high-court judge, it is not that because you are born of high-court judge you become a high-court judge. That is not, that is not the quality. The quality is... So therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially. And vaiśyas, they do not require any academical area. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (Bg 18.44). They can learn simply by associating with another vaiśya. But brāhmaṇa, especially require education, Vedic literature. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. Kṣatriya also requires education. Others, they may not require education. Practical training. These things should be introduced. Then human society will be perfect. Not by birth, but by quality, by education, by training. But that is possible.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That guidance we can give you. That guidance we can give. Because we have taken the brāhmaṇa's position. The brāhmaṇa's duty is to give guidance to the kṣatriya. Government means kṣatriya. So if the kṣatriyas take guidance from the brāhmaṇa and they try to execute, then everything will be all right. So we can give you sufficient guidance provided you accept it. (laughter)

Commissioner: The end is common. And we have found yesterday some of your śiṣyas had come. They're so happy. They said, "This is what the requirement is," and we accept him as a śiṣya.

Prabhupāda: Temple means a center, educational center, education. Give them prasāda. Bring. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Commissioner: And we have centers through Tirupati all over the country in our important centers, we have got some centers.

Prabhupāda: Now the thing is that, say, for Tirupati, it has got biggest income. But I understand that this income is being engaged for industrial purpose. But that, how to utilize in industrial purpose, that you do not know.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So we have to follow this formula. This is śāstra-viddhi. One step to another. And if you don't care for the śāstra-viddhi, we can do that, but na siddhiṁ na avāpnoti. It will never be successful. It will be a show, big show, but there will be no siddhi. (pause) If you want to do according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, our cent per cent cooperation will be there. We'll not touch a single farthing of your money, but we can give you direction, "Spend it like that." And government men, you can see that we are not touching a single farthing of your money, but it is being spent for Kṛṣṇa's mission. That you can believe. It is the duty of the government men to see that people may not misrepresent. That is the Vedic injunction. Pṛthu Mahārāja was to see that a brāhmaṇa is doing, acting like brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya is doing like kṣatriya. So it is government's duty to see that Bālajī's money, Kṛṣṇa's money, is to the farthing spent for His mission. That is your duty. That is government's duty, that nothing is misused, nothing is misrepresented. But we know how to execute the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Anyone can know because direction is there. It is not a secret thing. It is open secret. But you have to act upon it. That requires training. And so far my experience goes, the whole world will take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unfortunately, I am struggling single-handed. And they are criticizing me in the Parliament. You have seen the recent article Blitz against me? What is that heading? "Ungodly face." I am doing ungodly? But they are advertising like that. Trying to make me unpopular. The Māyāvādīs, they say that Bhaktivedanta Swami is ruining Hinduism. They are saying like that. (Hindi) So I am being criticized in Parliament, I am criticized by the so-called jagad-gurus who have never seen what is jagat. And so on, so on.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sikhs are very brave. They're martial. And another martial race, Jats. They are kṣatriyas. Oh, they can fight... When Britishers possessed India they organized this military with Sikhs especially, Jats, and Gurkhas. And they expanded their empire, Burma, Ceylon, Africa, all these British Empire possessions. And not only that, they fought two big world wars with these Sikhs soldiers. They conquered over this Mesopotamia, Middle East.

Caraṇāravindam: They worked so hard. It's a pity they weren't doing it for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They like military. They want military jobs. Very kṣatriya spirit.

Caraṇāravindam: They collected so much, but they lost it because they didn't give it to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Ah, their bad policy that they wanted India for Britishers' benefit. That is not duty of the government. Government should be for the welfare of the people. Then that government will continue. But they exploited the Indian people for the benefit of their own countrymen. That is the failure. That policy was not good. Therefore they finished within two hundred years. They began their ruling 1775, like that. And 1947... Not even two hundred years.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That means he's not pure brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa cannot be black. Just like a European, if he becomes black, that means he has mixture. European and American, if he's black, that means mixture. So brāhmaṇa family, how it has... Still, family, it must be very fair. Śukla. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya family must be very beautiful. If he's pure. Kāla brāhmaṇa prakāśa śūdra (Bengali) beki poṣya-putro pasaraila.(?) It is a slang language. Kāla brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa should not be black and śūdra should not be white. And a Musselman should not be dwarf. Because formerly real Musselmen were coming from Kabul, Afghanistan. That is called (indistinct). If a Muslim is dwarf that means he is not real. (Bengali) Prostitute's son, and poṣya-putra, adopted son. They are all of the same class. How this selection? Black brāhmaṇa, white śūdra, dwarf Musselman, and prostitute's son, and adopted son. Adopted son, he gets money without any earning and spends like... I have seen so many adopted sons.

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they do not know what are these planets, what are the arrangement. They are exactly like this planet. Just like here also, we have got president. It is expected, one president or one king in one planet. That was formerly. On this planet there was one king. The Pāṇḍavas, up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Five thousand years ago. One king of the whole world. One kingdom, one ruling, one culture, Vedic culture. Gradually we're losing... The culture is lost and anyone is doing as he likes. No king, no ruling. Therefore chaotic condition. Otherwise, according to God's plan, every planet there is one chief person ruling. So in the sun there is a person. His name is given in the Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. His name is Vivasvān. And his son is Vaivasvata Manu. Vivasvān manave prāha. These things are there. And his son, Ikṣvāku. And from Ikṣvāku, the kṣatriya-vaṁśa... In India still, the kṣatriyas are known, two dynasties, one from sun, one from the moon. Candra-vaṁśa, Sūrya-vaṁśa. Still, they are. So the kṣatriyas are coming. One dynasty is coming from the sun, another... So moon is not desert. These are simply rascals. They do not know anything, and rascals believe that the moon is desert, and the sun is desert. Only this planet is full of variety and beauty. No. We have to take lessons from the śāstras. So anyone can be raised to the highest platform. Caṇḍālo 'pi dvija-śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇa.(?) Even one is born as caṇḍāla... Caṇḍāla means less than the śūdras. The dog-eaters. Caṇḍālas. Śva-paca. They are called śva-paca. Śva means dog and paca means cooker. One who cooks the... There are still so many. In Korea, in China, in Hong Kong. They eat dogs.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) means first of all you understand your identity. You are now identifying yourself as Indian, or as brāhmaṇa, or as kṣatriya, or white, or black, and so many things.

Indian man (4): My first identification is my own body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is ajñāna. So long you are identifying with the body, you are no better than the animal. So we are doing that. We are fighting. "I am Indian. You are Englishman. You are this. You are that. You are..." Simply we are fighting, like cats and dogs, they fight. So that is ajñāna. How you can be prasannātmā? So when one becomes actually situated in spiritual life, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is the... In this way when you make further progress, when you actually understand that you are eternal servant of God, then you surrender. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). This situation takes many, many births to cultivate. And when he actually understands, jñānavān—not fools, rascals—then māṁ prapadyate, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That mahātmā is very rare to be found. So bhakti is not so easy. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. It is not so easy. It takes many, many births to come to the understanding that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: So that is your interpretation. But we are trying to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our mission. That you produce food grains sufficiently and give protection to the cows so that food grains and milk will give you all benefits of economic question. You'll be satisfied. That's all. Not only that, I have practically seen that by God's arrangement there are so much land on this planet that you can produce ten times food stuff of the whole population. But they are not doing that. They are utilizing land... Just like in Africa I have seen, enough land is there, but what they are doing? They are keeping some cows and bulls, and when they are grown up... They are not given anything to eat. There is enough grass. And as soon as they are fatty, they are taken to the slaughterhouse. Not for their own eating, but exporting. This business is going on. Similar business is going on in Australia and New Zealand. Unnecessarily they are killing these cows, and this shortage of foodstuff and shortage of milk, this is not good arrangement. The recommended process in the Bhagavad-gītā, that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). If you have sufficient foodstuff, then everyone is satisfied. And it is the duty of the vaiśya class, kṛṣi go-rakṣya vāṇijyam (BG 18.44); go-rakṣya vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam. The, according to Bhagavad-gītā, this is the business of the vaiśyas. The brāhmaṇas, they should be very much highly educated, enligthened in spiritual knowledge. The kṣatriyas, they should govern, give protection. The vaiśyas, they should produce enough food. And those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya, śūdras, they can help. That's all. This is their.... Then everyone will be satisfied. The society will go on. Just like in your body you require brain, the head, you require arms, you require belly, you require legs. Similarly, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is essential. If you have simply brain and no leg then it is also useless. There must be brain and leg also. There must be brāhmaṇa, there must be śūdra, there must be.... Then the social arrangement is perfect.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect that everyone is brāhmaṇa. No. He has got śūdra mentality, so let him till the ground for Kṛṣṇa. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. He is fit for tilling so let him till and produce grain for Kṛṣṇa.

Jagadīśa: Hyderabad?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hard work. He should be given hard work. This gurukula is for high, high class brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, not for the vaiśyas and śūdras. (man laughs in background) No, everyone is required for Kṛṣṇa's service, but there... That I was describing today. There must be division. Don't put horse before a cart.

Pradyumna: Race horse before the cart.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pradyumna: Race horse before the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that will not be nice.

Bhagatji: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Vaiśya is meant for kṛṣi.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Bhagatji: Varṇa-saṅkara.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Some of them are kṣatriyas and some of them... Like that. But that is not essential. That is all gone. Now, if one cannot take education, he can be used in farm work, a little hard work.

Jagadīśa: (name withheld) is another problem.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: (name withheld), (name withheld)'s boy. He is only eight, but he is becoming like a street boy.

Prabhupāda: So let him go to farm working. Farm working is for suitable...

Bhagatji: He likes that. He'll play with cows. He likes dung.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jagadīśa: He likes dung.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Let him take care. He should take care. Therefore we must have all these engagement. He'll be encouraged to take care of the cows.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Well, japa... Whether his father is doing japa nicely, that is also doubtful. What to speak of children? Japa, children cannot... That should not be taken very seriously. Whatever he can do, that's all right. We should enforce, we should... But not that if he does not immediately, he should be rejected. No.

Jagadīśa: You've often said the first-class intelligent men are the brāhmaṇas, second-class intelligent men are the kṣatriyas...

Prabhupāda: So we have to train like that, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ, not that everyone should be Sanskrit scholar. Why? It is not necessary. There are so many other things.

Jagadīśa: The inclination depends on guṇa-karma.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Although by nature we should not enforce something. We should see for which work he is suitable. You should engage him. And we must have all departments of work—the weaving department, the plowing department, the cow-keeping department, the Sanskrit department, the English department, the trading department. We should have all the departments. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Not nobody, there are. But people generally will not like, that "These are primitive ideas, to become truthful, simple, and controlling the mind, controlling... These are all imaginary things. How one can live in the struggle for existence by becoming truthful?" They will say like that. Therefore everyone is fourth-class. And the second-class man, kṣatriya?

Hari-śauri:

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is kṣatriya. Now, who is kṣatriya? A fourth-class man, he never seen battlefield and by vote he becomes president. And here kṣatriya means yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. If there is fight he must come forward first of all. He is in his palace, and he's engaging common men, "Go and fight." When there was Battle of Kurukṣetra Arjuna and Duryodhana, they came first. Because the battle was decided as soon as the leader is dead. No more fight. So they used to come first. This is kṣatriya. Where is that kṣatriya? And they are becoming politicians simply by votes, all third-class, fourth-class men. What he'll do? Everyone is trying to keep his position by hook and crook. How he'll think of the people? How they will be happy? He is thinking of his own happiness. And these are politicians. There is no kṣatriya. There is no brāhmaṇa. And there is no vaiśya. What is the vaiśya?

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Prabhupāda: Hm. A vaiśya means he should provide food. So food means agriculture and giving protection to the cows. If you have got sufficient food grains and milk, the whole food question is solved. And these rascals, they are not giving protection to the cows, but they are killing cows. So there is no third-class men even. All fourth-class. So how you can be happy under the control of fourth-class men? There is no first-class men, no second-class men, even no third-class. That means all fourth-class, fifth-class. That's all.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was a politician. That you cannot blame. Politics require all these things. A politician cannot be a saintly person. That is not possible. For politics he has to do so many things. That is necessary. Just like Arjuna wanted to be a nonviolent. Immediately it was condemned by Kṛṣṇa, "What is this nonsense? You are a military man. Nonviolent." And similarly, politicians, they require all this. Businessman must deal in black market. It is inevitable. Otherwise he cannot improve. Because the world is bad, you, if you become honest, then you cannot make pros..., cannot become prosperous. Sate sārtham samācaret.(?) Brāhmaṇa's dealing must be very straight and honest. They are not meant for politics or business. They are for transcendental knowledge. Kṛṣṇa conscious person should be all-inclusive. He must be a politician, he must be a brāhmaṇa, he must be a kṣatriya, he must be a śūdra—everything. All-inclusive. Because he is transcendental. In otherwise he is neither a brāhmaṇa, neither a śūdra, neither a... Yes. Nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir na yatir vā. Neither of these. In other side he is everything. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. As Kṛṣṇa is sometimes cowherd boy, politician, sometimes dancing with, artist—He is everything, not one-sided. So all food is finished?

Devotee: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest: There is no medicine for mūḍhas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is medicine; there is beating with shoes. That is going on. Mūrkhasya laktansadhiḥ,(?) argumentum baculum. You cannot mildly speak to the animals, "My dear cow, my dear dog, please do not bark. Do not go this way." No, you require lāṭhi, stick, and they will behave. Can you stop dog's barking by simply request? But you take the stick and beat it, and he will stop. Mūrkhasya laktausadhiḥ.(?) So there is no king. There is no kṣatriya. Therefore these rascals are talking all nonsense. There is no śāsana. This is king's duty, to see that they are acting according to śāstra. But there is no such king. So everyone is acting whimsically, whatever he likes, and the so-called swamis are preaching, "No, no, whatever you like, that's all right. You can eat whatever you like. You can do whatever you like. You think yourself that you are God. That's all right." This is going on. By thinking himself that he's God, he becomes God. This is going on, so many meditations: "I am moving the sun, I am moving the Moon, I am moving... mo mo mo mo." (laughter) And rascals are following them.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: First of all try to understand. It is... The free will is there. If you don't surrender, then, Kṛṣṇa says, niyataṁ kuru karma tvaṁ karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ: "Instead of sitting idly, better you do your prescribed duty." So the prescribed duty is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to guṇa and karma, there are four divisions. So if you are in the first-class division as brāhmaṇa, you do the brāhmaṇa's work. If you are a kṣatriya, you do the kṣatriya's... Niyataṁ kuru karma. What is you are destined, you do that nicely. Don't be idle. That is Kṛṣṇa's in... But if you are intelligent, then Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). But you are foolish; then you be engaged in your prescribed duty. And if you are intelligent, then "You give up everything; simply surrender to Me." That depends on you. If you are intelligent, you'll surrender; if you are not intelligent, be engaged in your karma. Kṛṣṇa is giving all facilities. Now it is up to you to make your selection.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then? Purport?

Devotee (3): Purport. "There are many pseudo-meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Kṛṣṇa did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set for kṣatriyas. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder kṣatriya. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart..."

Prabhupāda: You are following? Go on.

Devotee (3): "...and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture. After all, one has to maintain one's body and soul together by some work. Work should not be given up capriciously, without purification of materialistic propensities. Anyone who is in the material world is certainly possessed of the impure propensity for lording it over material nature, or, in other words, for sense gratification. Such polluted propensities have to be cleared. Without doing so, through prescribed duties, one should never attempt to become a so-called transcendentalist, renouncing work and living at the cost of others."

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā is giving you gradual process to the highest point and highest point is to surrender. That is the most confidential part of knowledge. Sarva-guhyatamam. Guhyād guhyataram. Find out this verse, eighteenth chapter. He has given the instruction of karma, yoga, jñāna, everything, but the most confidential instruction is this.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Te hitam. So it is not for all. One who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee, for him, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man—"You do your prescribed duty." But they have no prescribed duty even. The people of this age, they are so fallen, they have no prescribed duty. They are simply engaged like animals-eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. Animal is engaged like that, eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So we are being educated only like animals. We do not know the value of life, how nature is working, how we are changing our body. No education all over the world. Simply making plans how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy senses, how to defend, that's all. This is animal life. This is not prescribed duty. Prescribed duty is above this. From animal, one has to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, utmost, śūdra, like that. That is prescribed duty. And simply whole day working for eating, sleeping, mating, that is the business of the hog. Hog is also whole day working for eating, sleeping, and sex, and defense. Therefore śāstra says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). You should not live the life of a hog, viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means the stool eater. He is also working day and night. What is the business? "Where is stool?" That's all. And as soon as he's strong then, "Where is sex," without any discrimination. That is hog's life. So human life is not meant for spoiling like hog's life. Therefore niyataṁ kuru karma tvam. You should classify yourself amongst the four divisions, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), and then your prescribed duties are there. If you want to become a brāhmaṇa, then śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). If you want to be kṣatriya, tejaḥ... What is that? Tejaḥ śauryaṁ yujyaṁ yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam īśvara-bhāvaś ca kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: If you want to be a vaiśya, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). And if you want to remain a śūdra, paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam. And that is prescribed duty. You classify yourself, either as a brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or a vaiśya, by quality, not by caste or by whims, no. Actually by qualification. Then you engage yourself in that duty. That is niyataṁ karma tvam. Otherwise, jumping like monkeys, that is not karma. That is monkey's dance. It has no value. Wasting time. You should not waste time, a single moment. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, niyataṁ kuru karma tvam. So make that. Don't waste your time. That's all right. And she is child. What can be done? You cannot...

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: How they can know? There is no understanding. Mūḍha. (pause) To solve all these problems, therefore, there must be a class of men, brāhmaṇas. Not a class, a section of people must become brāhmaṇas. And all other sections should consult them and live as kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, śūdras. Then? It is finished now? No.

Jagadīśa: Well, we've solved all the problems.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: We've solved all the problems. Now we want to convince this Vinoda Bhave to support us?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So can you see what is the position, my quarters?

Hari-śauri: Well, Mūrti said your side is fit for moving into. But if they have... See, Bhogilal Patel is not here yet, so I thought if we wait at least till tomorrow, if you want, then that will give them the chance to get a few more doors on, and then, if Bhogilal comes tomorrow, then we can move in the morning.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all one has to become siddha. And not only you become siddha, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), even one is siddha it is very difficult for him to understand-tattvataḥ. What Kṛṣṇa means, to understand, it is not so easy job. And again He said, He explains that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Only the devotees can understand. It is not the business of the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. He has strictly specified-bhaktyā. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si. When He wanted to instruct Arjuna... Arjuna was a householder, a kṣatriya, not even a brāhmaṇa, not a Vedantist. The question may be why He selected Arjuna to preach Bhagavad-gītā which is so (indistinct) and (indistinct). That Kṛṣṇa says bhakto 'si. "Without being bhakta nobody can understand Me." And again He confirms, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If we interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a different way, karma, jñāna, yoga, you'll never get Kṛṣṇa. So these things are there. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā one has to become a devotee, pure devotee. Not because he's learned scholar, he's a big politician or a big yogi or big jñānī. Because He plainly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, what He is, then it is natural he'll interpret in his way, his own philosophy. That is not (indistinct). If you take jñāna, yoga, karma, or other.... But it is not possible. You have to receive it through the paramparā system. The paramparā system is clear. As Arjuna understood, you have to take it. And if you preach, that will be effective.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So in this way we have to fight. We should not be afraid for these rascals. Why you should be afraid? If they take to guṇḍā-ism, we shall engage fifty guṇḍās. "Come on. Let us see." We have to maintain that spirit. Anaye yei kare prabhu anaye yei sahe.(?) The Rabindranath Tagore's one poetry: "One who does wrong and suffers wrong, he is wrong." One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong. That is human. If somebody does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it. I shall not do any harm to anyone. That's all right. But if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is kṣatriya spirit. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam. "If you are challenging, 'All right, come on,' I accept this challenge." We have to do like that. Now, this bāniyā spirit... Our Bhagatji, he purchased that land, and he's afraid of him. What is this? Bāniyā spirit. But you are kṣatriya.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let us go on, one court after another, one court after... If there is fight, we must be prepared to fight. (Hindi) If required, take Setterji. He'll help.

Setterji: Girirāja.

Girirāja: He's very heroic. He was very heroic.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is kṣatriya. (Hindi) You take him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Setterji: In the Pakistan time, I fight forty, fifty men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is kṣatriya spirit. If you want to fight...

Setterji: Yes, always.

Prabhupāda: You killed?

Setterji: Yes! So many times.

Prabhupāda: So you have got experience.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also Kṛṣṇa conscious. You see how many demons are killed by Kṛṣṇa.

Setterji: "Come on." You challenge. You see? I've declared. If they challenge us I am ready, "Come on." At the temple I challenged, "Come on! And you are 150. We don't be afraid."

Prabhupāda: So... (Hindi) You have lost your kṣatriya spirit.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Having Setterji with us... When he has (?) relax for few days, rest for few days.

Prabhupāda: Huh? If you have lost your kṣatriya spirit, then take him.

Setterji: When he came with that barrister to give you to notice... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)... Mantrer(?) was so against, that "We must stop this." Yes. I heard from that doctor that he was insulted by Seti, "Either Seti should go..." Like that, he has repeated me. He gave me hint that Seti... (Hindi) And you know that. The doctor, what is that doctor? He suggested. He's Mantrer's(?) man. Yes. Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Soldiers they do that. It is unnaturally he becomes. They become mad after killing. (Hindi) ...kṣatriya spirit. They must be trained up kṣatriyas. If he is bāniyā, he cannot do it.

Setterji: (Hindi) ...who have challenged us. So "Come on."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So you are real husband. You gave protection to your wife.

Indian lady: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation for few sentences)

Prabhupāda: Can you make one cāpāṭi?

Hari-śauri: I should make it, or Pālikā or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Pālikā. (break) ...business, that requires so many other things. But if you take to agriculture you can do it immediately. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. That... We are going to do that. Kṛṣi... This is beginning, family life, maintenance, body and soul together. This is the beginning. Business is there when there is excess. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). First of all you take care of the cows and engage yourself in agricultural products. Then when there is excess production, you trade, get some money for other purposes. But you... Agriculture means you work for producing food. That is wanted.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, nature has divided, but we are taking the post or some position without qualification. That must be rectified.

Dr. Patel: That, what you say, that we should not have come in possession of the power in government, is a fact. They have no that quality of governing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? There is no kṣatriyas.

Dr. Patel: They... You see, they govern for themselves, and not for people.

Prabhupāda: There is no brāhmaṇa in the society.

Dr. Patel: If they are there, they are not well-off.

Prabhupāda: No, there are. Just like we are creating these brāhmaṇas all over the world; not many, but some of them. There is at least one ideal class. But the modern society, they do not want brāhmaṇas, neither anybody interested to become a brāhmaṇa. That is animal society. You cannot ask a dog, "Please come here. I shall train you as a brāhmaṇa." (laughter) That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: For guru there is no difference. But the real thing is qualification. That gotra, our gotra, that is applicable to the śiṣya and to the putra.

Dr. Patel: That is in śiṣya-paramparā they have got that... Gautama.

Prabhupāda: Gotra... Just like gotra, Kasya-gotra.(?) This gotra means this family, either śiṣya or putra. Just like Gautama-gotra, there are many brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas. So those who are brāhmaṇas, it means putras and those who are kṣatriyas and vaiśyas, they are śiṣyas. But the gotra is the same. So we shall go down. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Babhruvāhana. And Babhruvāhana was the king's daughter's son, so he remained as the adopted son of the king. Putrikā-suta. He had no son so he took the daughter's son. So this is India's... The kṣatriyas, they're not (indistinct), and some śūdras are ruling.

Dr. Patel: The śūdras are ruling the world over, not only in India. Because Nixon was less than a śūdra, they way he carried out himself, the highest authority of the most advanced state materialistically.

Prabhupāda: Now they are going to take care of it, these brāhmaṇas.

Dr. Patel: But he made a very bad show. The place where a man like...

Prabhupāda: Washington.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nagakanya.

Dr. Patel: Ilavan, Abhimanyu and Babhruvāhana. These were the outstanding sons of Arjuna.

Gurudāsa: He was a great fighter?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they were kṣatriyas.

Dr. Patel: He did in the war.

Prabhupāda: Babhruvāhana was adopted by his grandfather. That is called putrikā, putrikā-putra, "daughter's son adopted as son." So our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara belongs to this family, Babhruvāhana family. His title is Singh. That means kṣatriya. And they are Vaiṣṇavas for the last five thousand years or more than that.

Dr. Patel: Now all the Nagas have turned into Christians. Only fifty years back they were headhunters. Fifty years back Nagas of Assam were more or less like cannibals.

Prabhupāda: No, the headhunters means they were killing?

Dr. Patel: Yes. They would take revenge by cutting the head of the enemy.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Why they are blamed? Everyone is doing that. (laughter)

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: There must be still education so the people will... Say we are one day...

Prabhupāda: No education, no. Education will be required only for the guiding class: brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, not for anyone, śūdras. They are two only. Others will... What education required? Suppose if you produce... If you..., you are accustomed to agriculture, cow protection, there is no need going to college and schools. If you remain illiterate, still you can do.

Rāmeśvara: But in America...

Prabhupāda: No, no, America is not... I am talking of the (indistinct), the class who will guide the aim of life, brāhmaṇa class, and a class that will give them protection from injuries by others, kṣatriya class. Then the next class, food-producing men, they do not require. Actually only brāhmaṇas, they require education, or all others, they will simply see and learn. So little education required—that you can learn by hearing only, that's all. Suppose a brāhmaṇa class says that "This is good; this is bad." So you hear and accept. It doesn't require to go to school and college. So education will be simplified. (break) It has become very much complicated.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They were trained by the first-class brāhmaṇas, saintly persons. They abided by their order. There was committee, advisory committee. Even at the time of his death, he's asking advice from the saintly..., "What is my duty?" That is king. He's not doing anything whimsically. And the first-class man should be first-class. Then second-class man, executive, kṣatriyas, they will force: "You must do it!" And then the third class, they should produce and carry out the order of the second class, king. And fourth class, they cannot do anything. Let them serve everyone, that's all, śūdras. They have no intelligence. But everyone is important, cooperatively. This is society. You require also legs; you require also heads. Simply heads will not help you. Head will give instruction, "Leg, please walk in this way." That's all, legs will move. He carries me. "Hands, give me protection." Immediately, "Yes!" A bad somebody(?) "Come on." Yes. Coming. "Belly, you produce food, sufficient, so that the legs, hands and brain, everyone will be provided with sufficient..." This way. This is society. All third-class, fourth-class men, simply going to the factory, and they are making laws. This is... What is called? Chaos. Chaotic society, no brain.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (2): Exactly. We Indian people, we know what is religion, not politics.

Prabhupāda: No. Politics is there. Politics means formerly the brāhmaṇas were the guide, teacher of the society, guide of the society. Brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas were not interested in politics. They would give advice to the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas would administer. Brāhmaṇas were not interested to take politics, from time immemorial, even during the time of Mahārāja Pṛthu. Not that the kṣatriyas were irresponsible, no. They were taking guidance from the learned brāhmaṇas, saintly persons, and they were ruling over. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was doing that. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was doing that. Lord Rāmacandra also.

Guest (2): During the present day, sir, to whom we will treat as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya and śūdra?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. According to the symptom.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas were so learned at that time. Therefore brāhmaṇas were addressed as Pandita. Panditaji. Still they're addressed. Brāhmaṇas were addressed as Pandita, kṣatriyas were addressed as Thakura, vaiśyas were addressed as Mahājana, and śūdras were addressed as Chaudhuri. Yes, still. In northern India this is the etiquette.

Guest (1): But, sir, now these things are so complicated only the title indicates the caste.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Nowadays it is topsy-turvied. There is no system, Kali-yuga.

Guest (2): Today somebody is a brāhmaṇa, tomorrow's he's kṣatriya, and day after tomorrow he's something else.

Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: You were saying that last night in your talk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is required. But he must be a Vaiṣṇava. That's all. Actually none of us belong to any group. They are servant of Kṛṣṇa, and for Kṛṣṇa's sake he can act as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya or a śūdra. It doesn't matter. It is all Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like he is giving massage. That does not mean he's a śūdra. This is actual śūdra's business, servant. But he's not a śūdra. Similarly, we can act for Kṛṣṇa in any position. We do not belong to this material occupation or platform. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). This is to be dwelled on.(?) He's above all this nonsense. Brahma-bhūyāya means liberated. Jīvan-mukta sa ucyate. Jīvan-mukta means he may act in this life as a kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa, śūdra. It doesn't matter. But he's liberated. He's not going to take birth again. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). A śūdra cannot get that position. So try to understand our philosophy thoroughly and distribute it. Janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra. At least nobody can defeat our philosophy in the whole world. That position we have.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Bhāgavata: They are very expert.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they also know. If you have got lance in hand they will not attack.

Bhāgavata: It is a custom that if they want to marry, first they must kill one lion with a spear. Then they can..., considered man for marriage, qualified.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) Kṣatriya spirit. Kṣatriya spirit. Just qualify yourself. Then you marry.

Bhāgavata: (laughing) Gargamuni Mahārāja says we should introduce this in ISKCON.

Gargamuni: Then there'll be no marriage. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...of kṣatriya. Kṣatriya girls were not married so easily. There were so many competitors. You know Rukmiṇī, Rukmiṇī-haraṇa? Kṛṣṇa had to fight. Without fighting there was no marriage.

Hari-śauri: Now we have fighting after marriage. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Fight your wife, not with a lion. Poor woman, helpless, no father, no husband, no son. This is the civilization. They are forlorn, and they are forced to take the profession of... What is that? What is that advertisement? Forget... Upper and down...? What is that?

Hari-śauri: Topless, bottomless.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: The uneducated, he's earning because he knows that "If I go with application, what education I have got? Nobody will like me." He's hopeless in that way. "So let me try in my own way." He's earning ten rupees. And the other man, he's starving and taking help from the government, eating at the cost of father. This is education. Otherwise he is becoming hippie. Is that education? And in the Vedic system—education for the brāhmaṇa, how to learn to be truthful, how to control senses, how to become educated in Vedic knowledge. It is for brāhmaṇa. Bas, education, a few men selected. Kṣatriya, he has to learn how to fight: "Go. Fight. Go in the forest and kill animals and lie, try again, learn how to kill." Education. Vaiśya—"Go to the field. See how the plow is moved, how to give protection to the..." Finish education. And śūdra, he has to work under the order of the master. Master says, "Do this": he'll do it. So where is education required, high education, university degrees? And the government is maintaining big, big building, big, big professor, and the professor is... What is that? You told me? Gargamuni was telling.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: Politics means always fight between the kṣatriya and kṣatriya.

Guest (1) (Indian man): Still, actually, with this nonviolence method, could get them, I mean, get the Britishers out from India.

Prabhupāda: No, you are not... Violence method. It is the Subash Bose's organization.

Guest (1): Said... That has got some...

Prabhupāda: No, it is circumstantial. Circumstantially means the Britishers were not at all concerned about the non... They knew that "We..."

Guest (1): Had to go.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: And then, then... (Bengali) It may be taken as a... Who cares.

Guest (1): This nonviolence is just put in the head of the others.

Prabhupāda: No, nobody cares for this non... (break) That is not, that India has no kṣatriya spirit. Very good kṣatriya spirit. But it was not organized. That is the difference of opinion between Gandhi and Subash. He wanted to organize it.

Guest (1): That's... But Gandhiji knew actually it's not possible to organize this violence in India, because the people are not of that nature.

Prabhupāda: No, everything has got. Just like Subash Bose organized outside.

Guest (1): Subash Bose was a very great organizer and a great politician.

Prabhupāda: He organized. He made compromise, some he made, this Hitler and Tojo, that "Whoever, Indian soldiers surrendered, you..."

Guest (1): They should go to INA.

Prabhupāda: INA. He made this... And the soldiers were voluntarily surrendering.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Make Manipur a big nice center of Vaiṣṇava. You are descendants of Babhruvāhana. There is no doubt about it. Vaiṣṇava rāja. Make Manipur a strong center of Kṛṣṇa, and it will be easily done, strong Vaiṣṇava center, kṣatriya. I would like to see this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think the government, the Manipur government, they are willing to even donate land.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let us cooperate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be very easy.

Prabhupāda: Let us cooperate. The Manipur is already... For the last five thousand years at least, their name is in the Bhāgavatam, Manipur. And still they are Vaiṣṇavas. They have got temple in Navadvīpa, in Vṛndāvana. So Manipur have cele...

Gargamuni: The chief minister also came, Karan(?) Singh?

Prabhupāda: The governor of Punjab is Manipuri. He's so kind, he came to see me with his full staff. That governor is so respectful to me. So he came to see me. You know?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Chandigarh, yes. In his state way-eti khan,(?) secretary, everything—he came to offer me respect. So Manipuri people are very nice. So why not organize? Rejuvenate them. So you are the Manipur's son. Now you are perfect Vaiṣṇava. Now let us make Manipur a Vaiṣṇava kṣatriya center, very nice. Then make relation with Nepal. Nepal, they are kṣatriyas also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have intermarriage within the kingly families. The Manipur and Nepal. There is marriage.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have intermarriage.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are kṣatriyas. Manipur, they are kṣatriyas, and Nepal is also kṣatriya. Is also? Bopal? Bopal.(?) They are kṣatriyas?

Pradyumna: Bhutani.

Prabhupāda: Bhutan. Bhutan, yes. Not Bopal. Bopal is in... In Bhutan.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This will be a revolution, science and Bhagavad-gītā.

Gargamuni: He's our member. (break) ...three times to our temple in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: And through another member, Mr. Mahesvari, he became one of our members. (break)

Prabhupāda: Rich man, poor man, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, American, Ind..., sab combined. (Hindi) This is really United Nation, our organization. (Hindi) So? What other pictures?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I have many pictures. I gave a lecture, seminar, just before I came here at the university, about the nature of the Absolute Truth in terms of science and in terms of Bhagavad-gītā, a comparative study of the concept of the Absolute Truth. And there were many professors from physics, chemistry, mathematics, from philosophy, from biology, and from sociology. It was... Balavanta Prabhu was also there, and a few other devotees. It was quite interesting. And there was a slide show.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta was in Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. This is in the United States.

Prabhupāda: United States.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So you are scientist, devotee, and kṣatriya. As kṣatriya you'll force: (laughing) "You must believe this, or I will kill you." (laughter) And as scientist, the convincing argument... And as devotee, Kṛṣṇa will help you. That's all Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). That is Kṛṣṇa's word, "Fight! And remember Me." That's all. Combination kṣatriya, devotee, and scientist. Very good combination. Kṣatriya does not know beyond two things—victory or death. No third thing. That is kṣatriya. In a fighting, if I do not gain victory, then I must die. Two things. That is kṣatriya spirit. Whenever there is fight between the two kṣatriya, one must die. That is last word. No compromise. Jarāsandha and Bhīma, fighting for twenty-eight days, in the evening they were friends, but the fighting went on until one is dead. That is kṣatriya's fighting. Where is that spirit now? I think in Europe also there was the knights.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Yes. Well known for chivalrous behavior. Very gallant.

Prabhupāda: Hm. One of them must die. That is kṣatriya spirit. No compromise. And it will go on until one is dead. That is chivalry. Chivalry?

Hari-śauri: Chivalry, yes.

Nanda-kumāra: Some of our devotees have got that spirit, some of our men. Keśava has sometimes taken ten men at a time. Once in San Francisco at Ratha-yātrā some men were attacking the Deity, throwing rocks.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? When?

Nanda-kumāra: Keśava was picking... In San Francisco about four years back.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Nanda-kumāra: Keśava was picking them up over his head and throwing them across cars. Ten men. He took all of them, only himself. Finished all of them. He didn't kill them, but he stopped them. He said he felt Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva helping him. But he was fearless.

Prabhupāda: He is robust also, like kṣatriya, Keśava, Karandhara's brother. All right, you may go. So that...?

Gargamuni: In this letter they have asked for six persons, five including yourself. I think if we send a few more by vehicle, by car, vehicles, then we can bring maybe ten or twenty more, and we can have big programs. Five men are not enough.

Prabhupāda: So do that. He'll do.

Gargamuni: So I can give the names.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Okay. Give me the names and passport numbers so that we can get the inner pass.

Prabhupāda: So immediately do it.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That we can go later on. This is very important. Manipur we want to make a very strong center, because it is Vaiṣṇava state.

Gargamuni: And kṣatriyas.

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas.

Gargamuni: We can raise an army over there.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Gargamuni: To protect the temples from the demons.

Prabhupāda: So in March, if we go...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be nice in March.

Prabhupāda: By the middle?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, sometime in the middle.

Prabhupāda: Then we can arrange.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

He must be very powerful, very strong, strongly built. You have seen the picture, Rāmacandra? Sturdy body. You see. Lakṣmaṇa. Because kṣatriya. They should be trained up as kṣatriya. Therefore the varṇāśrama college is required to train people who is able to become a brāhmaṇa, who is able to become a kṣatriya, who is able to become... In this way division must be. And according to the quality and work there must be division for cooperation. There is a big scheme. They have lost. They do not know. All bhangis, camara, śūdras, they are simply given vote. That's all.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is your useless waste of time. Why? Therefore the war does not stop, unnecessary war, and such a big war, Kurukṣetra, in eighteen days it is finished. This is decision. And this is going on, continually war, strain, politics, diplomacy, lecture, Parliament. There is no finishing of war. There is no finishing. It will go on. Just like same example: If you keep the dogs as dogs, they'll going on barking. It will never finish. So this is the civilization of dog work. It is not human civilization. Therefore it is going on. War is not stopped. Where is stop? War is stopped? No. Going on. And it will go on because they are dogs. You cannot stop their barking. There are so many things. If we follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, then whole world will be... This is a fact. Now, how to implement it, that is another thing. It is a fact.

Hari-śauri: Because even the yavanas and mlecchas were following the kṣatriya system in Kṛṣṇa's time. Just like Jarāsandha. He had all the chivalrous respect of a kṣatriya even though he was a demon. But nowadays everybody's... No one is...

Prabhupāda: Everybody's śūdra. Nobody's brāhmaṇa, nobody's...

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: Śūdra is to be controlled only. They are never given to be freedom. Just like in America. The blacks were slaves. They were under control. And since you have given them equal rights they are disturbing, most disturbing, always creating a fearful situation, uncultured and drunkards. What training they have got? They have got equal right? That is best, to keep them under control as slaves but give them sufficient food, sufficient cloth, not more than that. Then they will be satisfied.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Either educate them or control them. Give them facility of education. But there is no education at all. Even for the whites there is no education. So we are stressing on the point of education. You educate certain section as brāhmaṇa, certain section as kṣatriya, certain section as vaiśya. In that education we don't discriminate because he's coming of a śūdra family. Take education. Be qualified. Then you talk. Not by votes.

Satsvarūpa: Lord Caitanya, when Rāmānanda Rāya brought this up He said it was not possible in this age to introduce this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not... He did not say possible. Ihā bāhya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Varṇāśrama is not required.

Prabhupāda: Not required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu denied, "I am not brāhmaṇa, I am not kṣatriya, I am not this, I am not this." He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gītā, the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). So we are Kṛṣṇa..., preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It must be done.

Hari-śauri: But in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's practical preaching He only induced them to chant.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible for ordinary man.

Hari-śauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: He only introduced just the chanting.

Prabhupāda: But who will chant? Who'll chant?

Satsvarūpa: But if they won't chant, then neither will they train up in the varṇāśrama. That's the easiest.

Prabhupāda: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas. There must be regular education.

Hari-śauri: But in our community, if the..., being as we're training up as Vaiṣṇavas...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...then how will we be able to make divisions in our society?

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava is not so easy. The varṇāśrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaiṣṇava. It is not so easy to become Vaiṣṇava.

Hari-śauri: No, it's not a cheap thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaiṣṇava, to become Vaiṣṇava, is not so easy. If Vaiṣṇava, to become Vaiṣṇava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyāsa is for the highest qualified brāhmaṇa. And simply by dressing like a Vaiṣṇava, that is... fall down.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇavism.

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

(SB 1.2.17)

By becoming a brāhmaṇa, hearing, hearing, hearing... Or by hearing, hearing, hearing, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. The other qualities, śūdra quality, kṣatriya, vaiśya, means finished. So then next stage is, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ... Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu. By this process, hearing... Without becoming a brāhmaṇa nobody is interested to hear. Then, by hearing, naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu, then abhadra, means the base qualities, means ignorance and passion... These are the base qualities. So naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is... Everybody is being raised, but they're falling down.

Hari-śauri: So then we should make it more difficult to get...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...brahminical initiation. After four or five years.

Prabhupāda: Not necessary. You remain as a kṣatriya. You'll be ha...

Hari-śauri: No need for even any brāhmaṇa initiation, then...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Hari-śauri: ...unless one is...

Prabhupāda: No, brāhmaṇa must be there. Why do you say, generalize?

Hari-śauri: Unless one is particularly...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, wherever, Māyāpur or anywhere. Question is that here it is clearly said, sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ. Brāhmaṇa has his duty, kṣatriya has his duty, vaiśya has his duty, śūdra has his duty. And if he performs his duty nicely, then he also becomes perfect. So why artificially he should be called a brāhmaṇa? Let them do, according to śāstra, the work of śūdra, or vaiśya. He'll get the perfect. Perfection is not checked. But why artificially he should be made a brāhmaṇa or he should be made a sannyāsī and fall down and become a ludicrous? That is the point. Better let him live in his position and become perfect. That's good. That looks very nice. And that is possible. That is possible. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu, can be worshiped if you perfectly follow the rules and regulation of four varṇas and four āśramas. Here it is also said, sve sve karmaṇi. You work as a perfect brāhmaṇa or a perfect kṣatriya, perfect śūdra; you get perfection. The perfection is available in your natural life. Why should artificially you become unnatural and fall down and become ludicrous? Perfection is not checked.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Every business is important. Brāhmaṇa business is important, kṣatriya... Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased. If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, "Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain." No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varṇāśrama. They do not know that. Sometimes they are giving stress... That communist is giving stress to the śūdra class, and the capitalist are giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied. Everything is disorder. There are two classes of men now-capitalist and communist. The communist is giving stress, "No. Simply the legs shall be taken care." What is called? Proly?

Hari-śauri: Proletariat.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all. These rascals are giving stress on the legs. And the capitalists, they are giving stress on production. And where is the kṣatriya and brāhmaṇa?

Hari-śauri: Well, they're all giving stress to accumulation of weapons. They're all giving stress to...

Prabhupāda: That is not kṣatriya's business. That is... That is... No, that is described. Kṛṣṇa said... He arranged the battlefield, because the kṣatriyas, they became very powerful by individual military strength as it is now...

Hari-śauri: Accumulation.

Prabhupāda: Ha. So Kṛṣṇa arranged: "All right, you come together and finish yourselves." So this arrangement will be done that all atomic bomb will come in warfield-one, next, third war, finished. All these, all these demons will be finished. That is not kṣatriya. This is demonic. Kṣatriyas' business is to see that the four orders of life are maintained properly, not increasing military strength only, overburdened. Everyone is spending 75% of the revenue for military. Huh? Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So they are demons. Why so much money should be spent for military? They are not kṣatriyas. They are not kṣatriyas. They are demons. So demons... As soon as there will be number of demons increased, there will be war and finish all.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Yes. But he's our good friend and supporter. He will help us in Mombassa very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Farm project is very nice. Kṛṣṇa gives. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is economic problem solved. And brāhmaṇa, brain problem solved, and kṣatriya, protection problem solved, and śūdra, labor problem solved. Four things combined together, live peacefully, happily. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Introduce this farm project. In America there is enough scope. So much land is lying vacant. And if there are jungles, cut the jungles; use the wood. Just like our Virginia. Big, big jungles. You cut the woods, you get ground, open field, and utilize the logs for house-making. Food, shelter, everything there. In Africa, everywhere, the nature's way. Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything, complete arrangement by Kṛṣṇa. We have to little work. Śarīra-yātrāpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ. If you sit idly, then you'll starve. Otherwise everything is there. You work little and get your all necessities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one person, God, He's supplying everyone whatever necessities. You have to simply work little.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi. Gandhi was so big man. His nonviolence creed, who has accepted it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one.

Prabhupāda: Although nonviolence is a very good word, but who can accept it? We don't say such rascal things, imagination. We introduce Kṛṣṇa, encouraging, "Fight!" Nonsense nonviolence. (chuckles) "Kṣatriya, you should fight. Don't talk nonsense." Kutas tvā kaśmalam idam. "What kind of talking you are doing? You're My friend." And he wanted to introduce nonviolence. Where is nonviolence in Gītā? Artificial, all artificial.

Hari-śauri: When Arjuna wanted to stop fighting, Kṛṣṇa chastised him.

Prabhupāda: And he wants to prove nonviolence from Gītā. Just see how foolish he was. If you say publicly that he was a rascal, fool, then you become unpopular. But actually he was a rascal fool. (laughs) Artificial. Kṛṣṇa says, "You fight," and these rascals say, "Nonviolent." He's more than cheating. Māyāvādī.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Should we actually have a training program so that our...

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: ... we'd know how to defend? Like you were saying varṇāśrama...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...system there must be kṣatriya and everything like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Should we actually start to...

Prabhupāda: Train.

Hari-śauri: ...train up some of our men so they know how to fight?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Hari-śauri: 'Cause we have men who know how to use guns. They practice a little. But on the whole, our devotees don't... They're not...

Prabhupāda: They are not trained up.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then that will be very nice. I want to have a small Vaiṣṇava state-varṇāśrama ideal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is possible in Manipur.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I thought it. Ideal Vaiṣṇava state. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they are doing very nicely, and people will be surprised, "Oh." There is no question of hatred. It is division for proper discharge of duty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I saw in the airport, the policemen, they have this tilaka.

Prabhupāda: Tilaka.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Policemen, they are dressed, but they have tilaka.

Prabhupāda: Manipur? Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Manipur. And always give respect. Though I am nobody, but...

Prabhupāda: Tilaka.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kill them. Finish. Just like Paraśurāma did. Kill all them, twenty-one times.

Bali-mardana: Oh, Paraśurāma. I was just reading in that...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: ...8.3. Very nice.

Prabhupāda: No consideration. Kill them. Due to Paraśurāma, the kṣatriyas went to European side, fled away. From India either they were driven away or killed when they become inconsistent with Vedic rules. So these kṣatriyas and associates... These parts of the world were resided by aborigines, mean uncivilized class. So for so many years associated with them, they have learned killing the an... Otherwise they're Aryans.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fallen Aryan culture.

Prabhupāda: Bas. They have fallen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you are raising them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...the varṇāśrama established, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-division, scientific division of the society. Ideal state. Just like the legislative assembly. They should be composed of men with complete brahminical culture. And the ministers, president, they should be kṣatriya, and the productive, vaiśyas, and balance śūdra, worker. Unless an ideal class of men is on the top of the state to give advice—just like Britishers, they assemble Parliament—there cannot be any improvement to the human society. All nonsense and rascals, simply by votes go to be member of the Parliament. They assemble. What they know? What they'll do? The whole world is mismanaged because there is no brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindā... I am proposing this because Kṛṣṇa consciousness means namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. That must be... The state must be in favor of brahminical culture and cow protection. Then everything will be all right. So Manipur is small state. If they agree, the leaders of the... It is not politics. It is betterment of the situation. And without brahminical culture, all these third-class, fourth-class, loafer class, simply by votes hooks and crooks and becomes president, Nixon and so on. Where is the betterment? It will never be.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why India's such big culture should be lost for the matter of these rascal leaders? This should be stopped. As Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma (BG 4.13). There must be ideal brāhmaṇa, ideal kṣatriya, ideal vaiśya, as Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is all-inclusive. Economic question? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Grow food. Practical. Just like when I was going to the pandals, millions of clerks were coming—"Education. Educated." And who is growing food? And they have to be provided in these pigeon holes and depend on ration. Is that civilization? And throngs of people are coming, just like machine, ants. Ants are coming. I saw like that. And go to the village side—all vacant land. Nobody's interested to produce food. Everyone is interested to live within the city, in these pigeonholes, and go to the cinema and go to the brothel, go to the club and learn how to drink, how to become gentleman. Is that civilization? Human life's aim is lost. You do not know why you are going to the office, why you are eating, why you are... Keeping them all pet animal's mentality, doggish mentality. We have explained. University education means doggish mentality. Unless he becomes a dog, there is no food. No, the dog goes...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wagging it's tail.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are zamindars.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: His father.

Prabhupāda: They are also kṣatriya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He was also a good chemist.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very qualified.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He works very nice. He is very good in experiments, making compounds.

Prabhupāda: Great loss. He will get again good birth to become Vaiṣṇava. There is no doubt. He was initiated. Again he will get chance. Anyone who has joined this movement and given little service, his human life next birth guaranteed. There is no doubt. And then he will get again chance to develop. He is not going to be cats and dogs.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: You told Professor Kotovsky that this caste system is existing everywhere, in every society in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. In the body there is caste system. The head is the brāhmaṇa, the hand is the kṣatriya, the belly is the vaiśya and the leg is the śūdra. Everything head, that will not help. There must be leg also. But it must be conducted under the guidance of the head. Then it is all right. If the head is not there and leg is utilized for jumping, that is monkey's business. The leg must work according to the dictation of the head. The hand must work according to the dictation of the head. "The caste system should be abolished." What is the caste system? There is no caste system. Everyone is śūdra. Who is a brāhmaṇa now, qualified, except one or two in our camp?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The article ends by saying, "Let harijanas be their own pathfinders and let them lead themselves from darkness to light, from pain to pleasure."

Prabhupāda: That you do not know. Otherwise you would have done it.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, it is not blaming, it is fact. It is the real understanding. Without evidence, without proof, how law can be established? That's a good method. So he is speaking like lawyer, that "You want evidence, you want witness: see here." Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So that is five hundred years ago. Now in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement you see practically. Drunkards, illicit sex-hunters, and so on, so on, they have become saintly persons. This is the effect of it. So... And Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). It doesn't matter. Pāpa-yoni. According to our Vedic system, low-class, those who are born in low-grade family, they are called pāpa-yoni. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, lower than that—śūdrādhaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They are called pāpa-yoni, untouchables. Of course, nowadays these things cannot go on. But these are there. So Kṛṣṇa says, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Anyone born in anywhere, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mām eva vyapāśritya. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, everyone can be elevated. So what is this harijana? We can do.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is that civilization? Human being should be calm and quiet, peaceful and advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There must be four divisions, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, everything. Everything is lost. From the very morning, "Where is bread? Where is bread?" We have no fixed income, but we are so pure(?). We are maintaining big establishment. Who has got so big establishment? And what is our asset? Asset is only Kṛṣṇa. For ordinary karmīs to maintain such house and such big establishment...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not possible. No one can do it.

Prabhupāda: He'll have insomnia, ca

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And they have manufactured this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "The whole city is expected to... The temple... The planetarium will be ready in three years." But how is that possible to be built...? And that "The whole city will be done in ten years." Says here, "A Vedic city with fifty thousand brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras living around a Kṛṣṇa temple."

Prabhupāda: So they have criticized that "Your city, there will be forty...," "Aurobindo..." You have seen it?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville..."

Prabhupāda: That...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It was started nine years ago near Pondicherry with the same target of fifty thousand but has still a population of only four hundred, mostly foreigners." In other words, this is... The idea is that just as Auroville is a farce, any one of us, we're also farcical.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... It is very good farce. That is the... Yes.

Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is difference. Cat and dog, there is difference. An intelligent man and a rascal is difference. There must be difference. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How you say there is no difference? A brāhmaṇa is brāhmaṇa. A kṣatriya is kṣatriya. Vaiśya is vaiśya. That is real understanding. If you say, "Everyone is brāhmaṇa," that's not good.

Indian man (3): But we have been told to see only one consciousness, one life, between indi...

Prabhupāda: That oneness is on the spiritual platform. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). That is another thing. But so long you have got a bodily concept of life, you must divide: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That is wanted. Just like in my body there is division. There is head. There is hand. There is leg. There is belly. So they have got different activities. The head is important. If you cut the head, then whole thing is finished.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa condemned it, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "You are trying to become nonviolent." And Gandhi became more than Kṛṣṇa, nonviolent. What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "These things are spoken by the anāryas, not by the Aryans."

Mr. Dwivedi: No, He advised, quite right, hato vā prāpsyasi svargaṁ jitvā vā bhokṣyase mahīm, tasmāt...

Prabhupāda: No, no, in politics, when you deal in politics there is no question... Kṣatriya therefore. These things should be trained up. Some of them should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Some of them should be trained up as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya. They are required. So these things we want to organize. We can give you instruction. We can give you help. Now you have to do it, the leading... But it will be done. If you follow our instruction, it will be done. So the buildings are there. There is no...

Mr. Dwivedi: The buildings...

Prabhupāda: Simply it has to be repaired. Climate, I think, it is good, eh? Eh?

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If you... If you think kuṭumbakam. Suppose some kuṭumba has come to your house. You ask him, "Go out"? This is our system. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptam. This is Indian culture. When you receive somebody at your home, even if he's your enemy-gṛhe śatrum api prāptam—you should treat with him in such a way that he'll forget that he's your enemy. Viśvastam akutobhayam. That was India's culture. Bhīma went to Jarāsandha to fight. Whole day it was fight. It was kṣatriya's fight. Unless one is dead, the fight will continue. So Bhīma and Jarāsandha were equally powerful, so no decision. But still, he was guest at Jarāsandha's house. At night they were eating together, talking together. This is India's culture. They forgot. Arjuna went to see in the battlefield to Duryodhana. And Duryodhana immediately said, "Come here, my brother. You have come. What do you want? How can I help you? You want your kingdom without fight? I can give you." He said, "No, no, that is not my business." This is kṣatriya. He... He thought that "He has come to beg." "No, no, that already... That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. But when he's at my place, I offer, "All right, if you want without fight, you can take." This is... They... This is India's culture. Ei sab mahābhārata hai, "History of Greater India." (Hindi) Apkara Gandhiji (Hindi) fiction hai.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Indian man: This, I think, they will be very active to know, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is nonviolence in Bhagavad-gītā, in politics?

Kārttikeya: Nowhere.

Prabhupāda: No. Even that incidence I told you, the, Duryodhana said, "You have come to, for kingdom? Yes, you can take." So he said, "No, no, no. That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. "Oh, Duryodhana, you are so gentleman. Let us settle up. No, no, no." "No! That will be settled in the battlefield." This is Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) "No, we have come to the battlefield. We must decide by fighting." This is kṣatriya. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. (Hindi) This is teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. Then where this is nonviolence come in the Bhagavad-gītā? Apalāyanam. (Hindi) "Come on. Fight. You have no weapon? Take from me." This is kṣatriya. What is the definition?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṣatriya?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation continues for some time) Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: But now everybody has become a śūdra.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (more Hindi conversation) So give him photograph, my photograph. Bring some photograph.

Mr. Dwivedi: All right. (Hindi) There are tentative date... (Hindi) So that can be fixed, that Your Holiness will be reaching there about the 6th.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That letter...

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) In that letter, whatever changes you want to make, make changes. Kindly put the date 6th, that His Grace should be reaching Gwalior on the 6th.

Prabhupāda: Do... Otherwise call him.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And we don't require any from, anything from them, but for the whole human society's welfare we can suggest him, "Do like this." That is our... But we don't require anything from them.

Girirāja: I know that. This is your...

Prabhupāda: Of course, sometimes we are in difficulty. We ask them something.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that's their duty, anyway. Kṣatriyas should provide protection for the saintly person.

Girirāja: Anyway, our real protector is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: He has... Because we've seen so many difficulties. Nobody could see any solution, but...

Prabhupāda: That one Caitanya Mahāprabhu's devotee was ordered to be hanged.

Girirāja: I didn't know that.

Prabhupāda: Gopīnātha Paṭṭanāyaka.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That they cannot. As soon as they will find opportunity, they will become vyabhicāriṇī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll become what?

Prabhupāda: Vyabhicāriṇī. For woman, protection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you don't advocate this remaining sing..., these women remaining brahmacāriṇīs.

Prabhupāda: Therefore polygamy was allowed. Let them be taken care of, one husband, three wives. Therefore the kṣatriyas were taking hundreds of women. They had money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṣatriyas, yes.

Prabhupāda: Just like we see, when Devakī was married, so many Devakī's young friends also went. They were taken shelter. The woman population is always bigger. (end)

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa never said, although in Bhagavad-gītā yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that "Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in any way." There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gītā in a new way—more than Kṛṣṇa. These rascals are more than Kṛṣṇa. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. This is the difficulty in India. (Hindi) Vyāsadeva says, bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi) Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he's a rascal. (Hindi) Or this is also said there, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedantist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedantists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedantist... He was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedantist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him. (aside:) Hm, don't do it.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa as a student-śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Kṛṣṇa, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am kṣatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "So I can understand that I am puzzled that how I can kill such enemies who are my family members? This is my problem." (aside:) Here is a monkey. (Hindi)

Indian man (3): There are two.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana,(?) three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Don't talk. Why you are talking? So our real trouble is that we have become conditioned by the material identification, "I am this body." Everyone is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," everything, identification with the body. That is the dirty thing. So one has to purify, that "I am neither American, neither Indian, nor brāhmaṇa, or so many designations." Then it is called cleansing the heart. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is mukti, when you don't identify with this material body. And so long you identify with this material body, either you become a sannyāsī with some beard or a gṛhastha without some beard, the same thing, identifying with the body. So ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12) means to become free from the bodily designation. And śāstra says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is composition of three dhātu, kapha, pitta, vāyu, according to Āyur Veda; and according to medical science, it is skin and then muscle, blood, bone, and marrow, stool, urine, those, combination. So I am not this combination of stool, bone, skin, blood. But people are taking that. When they are diseased, they take care of the body. Of course, it is not that we should not take care. But that is superficial. Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha. So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system. Otherwise it is not human civilization. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). This system should be followed. Then, gradually, one has to come to the spiritual. Chaotic society cannot help us. There must be systematic social order: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, cātur-varṇyam, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa is not voluntary, but it is compulsory.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they did what the Curzons suggested.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they know. And besides that, they did not exploit. Whatever enjoyment they did—within India, not that taking away the money outside India. Therefore it was very good relationship. And Indian people, they do not mind who is king. "We pay our tax. That's all." That is the attitude from the very beginning. The general people, they did not mind whether Kurus or war(?) will reign over or the Pāṇḍavas. "We don't mind. You become fight. You become king. We give our tax. That's all." So there was no fight with the subject between king and citizens. This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy. I do not know who introduced this. In India still there is no demon-crazy. Indian king always. Everyone is taking part in politics. What is this nonsense? It is meant for the kṣatriyas. They can fight and defend. The rascals, bhangis, chamars, and they are also in politics. Harijanas... Every one of them vote, and everyone has got the right to become king, minister. Not this. The real thing they are missing, the mode of life, the aim of life. (break)...care. Everyone is theorizing, everyone is educated, and everyone is, they're hippie. That's all.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are laborer and little educated. There are uneducated laborer, just like carpenter. He doesn't require any education. If he knows how to rub on... What is called, that? That instrument? He doesn't require to become M.A., Ph.D. All these laborers are working so nicely. So why they should spend, waste their time in going to school and college? From the very be... As soon as he's ten years old only, let him learn practically how to weave cloth, how to become carpenter, how become other craftsman. And in due course of time he can earn his... How to cultivate land... Why so many big, big universities for inviting everyone? There is no need. Educated means brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. Brāhmaṇa will give real knowledge, and kṣatriyas will govern. For vaiśyas and śūdras, there is no... It is waste of time. Formerly it was done so. The vaiśyas, they have got a son, goes to a shopkeeper: "Please here let my son work with you. He doesn't want any salary." So he gets engagement. Then, by seeing, seeing, he becomes little important. And the proprietor gives him some hand expense. And then, one day, he becomes very expert. He starts his own business. That was the system. Why he should go and waste time for education? A boy is given to a carpenter. He learns very easily. A weaver, he learns very easily. A shopkeeper, grocer, he learns very easily. That is education. Why he should waste time for academic education and create unemployment? So long he's not educated, he has got enough employment. Still they take in the morning, say, half a mound of ḍāl and goes home to home: (Hindi) So by saying, after mound of ḍāl, he makes up these two, three rupees' profit. That's all. Where is unemployment?

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Their comforts first. They have done very nice. (Hindi conversation) ...university, but producing hippies. (Hindi) Library in your... It is all nonsense. Who is going to read the books, big, big library? It is simply waste of time. Train them how to become self-controlled, how to become God conscious, how to become humble, obedient. This is required. And so-called education and last result is to become a hippie, what is the use? Simply waste of time. Education is meant for the first-class men. A kṛṣana does not require education. He should see how to plow, and he'll learn. This mistri does not require any... He should work with other mistri, and he'll learn. Architecture, this, that, so many... Why? Why waste your time? This nice building has been constructed by these laborers. They have got training by seeing, by practice. They did not require university education. Of course, guide is there. Of course... So these big, big universities, allowing everyone to come and join school, college—simply wasting time and unemployment. Unemployment. This is not required. Only brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, those who are being trained up as brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya, they should be given book education. Otherwise practical. You see how the things are being done. Bas. A weaver, he sees "Kat, kat, kat." He's got it. Does it require M.A., Ph.D.? Simply waste of time. And that is going on. I don't want that, for "Kat, kat, kat," M.A., Ph D. (Bengali) "To kill a mosquito, bring a gun." (laughter) Nonsense education. I don't like that education. All right.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the villages in India, is this still going on sometimes. We see in the cities it's not, but in the villages, do they still have more than one wife?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Not poor man. Kṣatriyas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, not these...

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not these workers.

Prabhupāda: They cannot maintain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's right. They don't have the land to maintain. You have to have land.

Prabhupāda: You can have more than one wife, but maintain them just like wife. She may not have any complaints that "My husband cannot maintain me."

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Close that door. How are you?

Śatadhanya: Feeling much better. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...man and woman happy, and in happiness, in peace of mind, make progress, spiritual life. That is the Vedic civilization. The guide is there, brāhmaṇa. The protection is there, kṣatriya. The food is there, vaiśya. And labor is there, śūdra. Combine together, live very happily, peacefully, in the society. You'll find still. The aim is how to realize God. Village to village, you'll find temples.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw when going to the bank yesterday. We passed through the bhangi colony, but there was a temple there. They have their temple, even the bhangis.

Prabhupāda: In our childhood we have seen. The bhangis, they carry stool, walk in the morning with stool, so neat and clean. And if you go to the house, you cannot understand that this is a bhangi's house. So neat and clean. And bathing their utensils, their sitting place. After taking thorough bath, sometimes they are worshiping Deity.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's it. And if nice children are there in the society, they will become responsible men. Then there will be no disturbance in the society. Everything will go on smoothly. Brāhmaṇa is acting as brāhmaṇa; kṣatriya is acting as... They are both... No quarrel. No animosity. Everyone is cooperating with one another. The whole society becomes peaceful. Family becomes peaceful. The man personally becomes peaceful. Then he will be able to make progress. Kutaḥ śānti ayuktasya. If you are not peaceful, how you can attain? Or if you are not a devotee, you cannot be peaceful. Or if you are not peaceful, you cannot become devotee. But if you can become devotee, you become peaceful. So I have studied practically. Vedic way of simple life is the best. And unless you adopt the Vedic way of simple life, you'll be implicated, material desires. There is no end. The Western civilization, they are after sense gratification, but there is no limit where it will end. The psychology is that everything new. They are changing—"change, change, change." And there is no limit. Where the sense gratification will be satisfied, this much? Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma. Kāmasya na indriya-prītir lābho jīveta yāvatā (BG 18.44). Na indriya-prītiḥ. We require sense gratification—we have got senses—but not for the matter of sense. Just to live. Just like sleeping—we require bedding. And why shall I be dissatisfied if there is no good bedstead and no silk, silver and, or, and this, that, so...? Within my means, whatever comforts are available, I make satisfaction. Why shall I make competition?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not the purpose of life. It's missing.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Regarding that land, if they want to give it, they'll give it. It's not that somebody's going to come, like Mr. Arora, and by his coming suddenly they're going to give us the land. It's a big political matter. It's not friendship. We just have to become very much prepared now for such occurrences. Those gurukula boys, as they grow up, they should be trained to protect Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say kṣatriya. Some of our men should be trained as kṣatriya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is required.

Prabhupāda: Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—not that all one class. That is all wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people are inclined in that way. Guṇa-karma.

Prabhupāda: But everyone can be utilized if you organize it rightly. Three hundred dacoits there means government is very weak.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's what I... Similarly, weaver, that cloth weaving, "kat, kat." The wife is spinning, her husband is weaving, the children is weaving, and combinedly at the end of the day there is a cloth. And people were satisfied with simple necessities. They would not charge very much for the labor. And one nice cloth requires half a pound cotton. Half a pound cotton means maybe one rupee. Another one rupee for the labor. So now they are paying twenty to thirty rupees. Unnecessarily he has to earn this money and pay to the millionaires, and he will keep three dozen motorcars, so another man will be engaged in motorcar industry. In this way time is being wasted without any search after spiritual realization. Time is wasted in such so-called technology advancement. And the real purpose of life, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā, that is missing. And when you present that "This is the most important business of life," they say, "It is brainwashing." And they fight to check us, Communists and others, that "It is useless, God consciousness." (break) (long pause) So... Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Because they are missing the aim of life, they are committing suicide. And this varṇāśrama-dharma was planned in such a way that everyone would be spiritually advanced. The weaver will get, the potter will get, the blacksmith will get, the brāhmaṇa is already there, kṣatriya will get—everyone. For them, lower-class men, demigod worship. At least they are accepting there is some higher authority. Among the blacksmith there is viśvakarma-pūjā. One day they will wash all the instruments of blacksmith. Somehow or other, all are cleaned. And with the fruit, with flower, candana, they'll worship.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This guṇḍā class, they do not like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ramakrishna also does not. They say that Caitanya had men. In Orissa also the people emasculated. In Orissa they say that since Mahārāja Pratāparudra met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he lost his kṣatriya strength. He was very powerful king, but since he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he became effeminate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is your answer to that?

Prabhupāda: That is the Orissa government's principle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is our answer to that? Our reply?

Prabhupāda: What you can reply if you conclude something like... They have no idea of spiritual life. This is disrupting, na dhanaṁ na janam. We don't want this. And they want it. So how you can reply? Everyone wants this, and we say, "We don't want." How you can make compromise? Therefore they say "emasculated." In your country also. "Why? What is the wrong, illicit sex? What is the wrong, intoxication?" They say, "Brainwash. Why not?" Is it not? It is very difficult to push on this movement. Still, we are going. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: After all, the thing is that so long we have got this body, the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), you have to accept. This is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So the human endeavor should be diverted how to stop this repetition of birth and death. That is the prime instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Kṛṣṇa says that,

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti...

(BG 4.9)

So our movement is on that platform, how to stop. Our whole Vedic culture is based on that process. When Viśvāmitra Mahārāja went to see Daśaratha about..., Daśaratha Mahārāja inquired from Viśvāmitra, aihistaṁ(?) yat punar-janma-jayāya: "You are great saintly person. You are trying to conquer over birth and death. Is your process going on nicely?" Viśvāmitra inquired Daśaratha Mahārāja about royal activities, government, prosperity, because he was kṣatriya and he was brāhmaṇa. So my request... This, our Gītā philosophy, that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ... (BG 4.13). There must be a class of men, ideal brāhmaṇas; a class of men, ideal kṣatriyas; class of men, ideal vaiśyas; and balance, śūdras, to help. That will make the human society happy. Cooperate.

Room Conversation -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And money, spend for Kṛṣṇa—for Kṛṣṇa's palace, for Kṛṣṇa's temple, for Kṛṣṇa's worship, gorgeous, as gorgeously as... Not for false... This is the human civilization. And to organize this, varṇāśrama will help you to divide the society—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—as there is division in the body. That will help. Don't waste human form of body for sense gratification. I wanted to introduce this. Now I have given you ideas. You can do it. You are all intelligent. For Caitanya Mahāprabhu's para-upakāra... So you do good to others. Not exploit others. Any human being who has been bestowed by this body has the capacity to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them chance and make situation favorable. Is that clear?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, it's clear, Prabhupāda. You have made everything very clear.

Prabhupāda: Passed stool.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: Nava-yogendra, organize Africa and South Africa. They are also gradually taking. So who is going there?

Brahmānanda: Jayatīrtha.