Śyāmasundara: So if one follows these moral guidelines, the result is certain, predictable?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. (Hindi with guest) Good association means to associate with one of the devotees. Sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). (Hindi with guest)
Śyāmasundara: He says that moral laws are not absolute rules which never permit exceptions. He says that moral laws are flexible; that they're not absolute.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Real moral law means the law of the Supreme. Just like Kṛṣṇa has preached dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, so many yoga systems. Then He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). These principles have not less moral, dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, but ultimately He says, "Give up all of them." Then what is moral? His word is moral. Whatever He says, that is moral. Not this dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga. No. Whatever He says, that is morality. So it is changed. Nobody can argue: "Sir, you have prescribed so many kinds of yogas. Now You say to give up all these things. It is contradictory." No. It is not contradictory. Whatever He says, that is morality. That is Vaiṣṇava principle. We don't consider anything moral or immoral. Whatever is ordered by Kṛṣṇa or His representative, that is moral. That is our position.
Śyāmasundara: He says, "It is the function of intelligence to serve action, and action benefits man when it obeys the dictates of intelligence."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So who can be more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa?
Śyāmasundara: Then he says that "Values must be regarded as goods of practical significance which result from intelligently directed activities." So something we place value on must be acted...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Arjuna followed the decision of Kṛṣṇa, so there is value. He became victorious, he enjoyed the kingdom, and he became a famous devotee.
Śyāmasundara: As a practical result of his activities?
Prabhupāda: Yes. As a practical result. Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that this Kurukṣetra fight was just like a great ocean, and all these Bhīṣma, Droṇa, Karṇa, they were just like big animals in the ocean. He said, "It is important for my grandfather to cross the ocean dangerously with all these big, big animals. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa it was possible." This is value.
- yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo
- yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ
- tatra vijayo...
Śyāmasundara: He says that morality is social, that besides a personal meaning it must have a social meaning.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a type of morality which is above social meaning. It is transcendental. Social means guided by the three modes of material nature. But Kṛṣṇa's order is above, transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26).
Śyāmasundara: So it's asocial but not antisocial. Our morality is above social.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Social is subordinate to this world.
Śyāmasundara: But it is not antisocial.
Prabhupāda: No. It is social. It is sublime social. It is not only social but sublime social.
Śyāmasundara: He says that rights are also social, just like if I claim a right, a certain social right, that I must also accept my responsibility. Just for instance free speech. If I accept free speech as my social right, that I must also accept others' right to free speech.
Prabhupāda: But that is lacking in the present society, because these rascals, they are proud of their nationals but they are denying this same national life to the animals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. Therefore they are rascals. Why the animals should be denied their national right? They are born in the same country. They have a right to live at the cost of God. Why we are interfering with their independence, given right? Therefore they are rascals. Their so-called social, moral, philosophical, political, they are all rascaldom. Therefore our decision is, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā: (SB 5.18.12) anyone who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualities. In the other direction, we will find so many defects with his so-called moral and social position.
Śyāmasundara: He says that God... He defines God as the active relation between the ideal and the actual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are active in God's service. People are thinking, "What service they are doing? They should be giving service to the country, to society, and they are making ārati and brass idols." They are thinking like that. But for us it is practical.