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Infection (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Śivānanda(?): When do we become attracted? When do we begin to become attracted?

Prabhupāda: Forget that. You are attracted. That you take account of. When you become diseased, that is useless. You are diseased. Take medicine. There is no necessity of asking when you became diseased. You are diseased. Take medicine. That's all. What is the use of tracing the history? Everything has his history, that's all right. But my immediate necessity is that "I am diseased. I want to be cured. Give me some medicine." But there is history. The history is this. Just like disease. You have fallen victim of disease. That means you have given chance to the infection. That's all. That is the sum and substance of disease. You are infected with some disease. That means you have given chance for that infection. There was a story in a medical journal. "Typhoid Mary." Typhoid Mary... One girl, whenever she was present everyone was being infected with typhoid. Then she was examined, that she is full of typhoid germs. But she was immune. But she infected wherever she went. The medical journal reported. So we should be careful not being infected. And that how you can become free from infection? These four rules. "Don't have this, don't have this, don't have this, don't have this." Then you are free from infection. So you should be careful from being infected. There is no use tracing out the history when you become infected. You should not be infected. That should be your business. And as you are now infected, you try to avoid the causes of infection and take the medicine; you become cured.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Caturthaḥ(?) platform. And that is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says,

māṁ ca (yo) 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
sa guṇān samatītya etān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

So two sides we are trying, to define the natural division of human society. The intelligent class, the administrator class, the productive class, and the worker class. There is natural division. You cannot say that everywhere simply there are intelligent class of men. No. Because we are infected with the three kinds of the material modes. You cannot expect all men are on the same level. That is not possible. Someone is in the modes of goodness, someone is in the modes of passion, someone is in the modes of ignorance, and someone is in the modes of mixture. That is the natural division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaisya, śūdra. Those who are purely in goodness, they are brāhmaṇa. Next to that, passion, kṣatriya. And next to that, vaiśya, mixture. And next to that, śūdra. And next to that, caṇḍāla.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Devotee: There is an infection in this ankle.

Prabhupāda: Ankle? Oh, there was some... (break)

Bob: ...who is not very aware of God, but...

Prabhupāda: Then he's an animal. The animal does not know what is God. A person who does not know what is God or one who does not try to understand what is God, he's animal. The animals are with four legs, and that animal is with two legs. And Darwin's theory is they are monkeys. So anyone who does not know God or does not try to understand God, he's nothing but animal.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nature, they cannot even challenging nature; they cannot understand the nature. And behind nature, there is God. So what they will understand God? They cannot understand the curtain by which God is hidden, and what they will understand God? This is a curtain. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya

yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). Just like this planet, this universe, everything is resting on Him, but He cannot be found. Just like if you sit down on this chair, on this bench, I can see the bench you are sitting. But this whole universe is floating on something, but you cannot see on which it is floating. You are so limited. This universe is floating on water, just like (indistinct). Yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-nidrām anantam aśeṣa-bhūtam, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.47). Each and every universe is coming out of the pores in the body of Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu. Just like an infected person, he distributes infection by breathing. Is it not?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are sometimes white, they say, suppose when I am injured, my external something hurts. They say the white blood corpuscles are responsible to protect the body. But when the white blood corpuscles is not enough, then infection normally occurs.

Prabhupāda: Anyway there is change of corpuscles. And with the change of corpuscles there is change of body. That is scientific. Therefore body is changing every moment, so why not after death? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So consciousness is also subject to body's changes, change of body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Body's circumstances association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. According to association, atmosphere, circumstances, the desires changes. So that is, desire means consciousness. Just like our boys, they had different consciousness before coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you are also scientist, there are other scientists. But your consciousness is different from theirs. Therefore you could challenge him like that. If you can create life by accumulation of these facts. He says that I do not know. He is not confident in his science.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Transmigration. Bhramadbhiḥ. Bhramadbhiḥ means transmigration, wandering from one body to another. Just like I am here. I have got my this body, a dress, covering. And when I go India, this is not required. So they are taking that the body has evolved like that. But no. Here, under certain condition, I accept this dress. In another place, under certain condition, I accept another dress. So I am the important, not this dress. But these rascals are studying the dress only. That is called ātmābhimānām, considering of the dress, body. Bālakānām. Just see. They bring here dogs for passing stool. Dog stool is so very much infectious. The diphtheria and other germs, they are grown. But these rascals they do not know. They distribute dog stool everywhere. But cow dung, there is no cow dung. Vedas says cow dung is pure. That is neglected. Dog stool is pure. This is their intelligence. They give signboard: "Littering illegal"?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But dog stool is not illegal. Just see how foolish they are. If you drop a paper on this grass, that is illegal. But you can get your dogs pass stool, it doesn't matter. This is their intelligence. They will not allow if you are bringing one mango from other part of the country, but they will allow dog also bringing so many germs. They do not know. Dog also brings so many germs, infectious germs.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Popworth: Well, the diagnostic's not altogether clear to me how the chanting is going to affect the pollution. How do you see...?

Prabhupāda: It is a purificatory process. Pollution means impure. So if you purify, then there is no more pollution. Just like infection. You have got some disease, infection. If you give some vaccine to purify the body, the infection is gone. It is like that.

Revatīnandana: It seems that there's a difference in the usage of this word pollution.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Revatīnandana: I think there's a difference in the way the word pollution is being used.

Prabhupāda: Yes, whatever meaning you may do...

Revatīnandana: So, for instance, if it is used to indicate air pollution...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. In this way, as the heart becomes cleansed, he revives his quality of goodness. And when he's situated in the quality of goodness, the other two qualities, passion and ignorance, cannot infect him. By this process. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. The example is kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. When one is too much affected with the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, passion and ignorance... What is this kāma? Lusty and greediness. These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-guṇa.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We say in a Bengali poetry:

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

Anyone who is infected with this material energy, he is just like a man, ghostly haunted. You have any experience of ghostly haunted men? A ghost captures him.

Dr. Hauser: Ghostly haunted?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So we have no experience below zero degrees. But in Europe, America, there is places. In Russia also, below fifty degrees. But they do not stop their business. They know that "Winter season has come. It will go away again." So devotees, even they are in distressed condition, they know, "It has come due to my bad activities in the past. It will go away. Let me suffer and finish it." Just like if you become, all of a sudden, infected with some disease. So what? You'll go mad? No. You know that "I have infected this disease. Let me suffer a few days. It will go away. That's all." This is the mentality of the devotees. They are not disturbed. And if he's not disturbed, then he's fit for becoming liberated.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...for others it is said. For Kṛṣṇa, it is mercy. The gopīs came with lust. They became purified with Kṛṣṇa's association. Gopīs actually, superficially, externally, they are, means, nitya-siddha, ever-liberated expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy, internal energy. But apparently, they left their father, husband and came to Kṛṣṇa. So that is, from Vedic principle, it is wrong. One young girl cannot go to other young man, giving up the protection of father, brother, and... So they did it. So they, according to Vedic principle, it is sinful. But because it was related with Kṛṣṇa, they became purified. That means any way, if one comes in contact with Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. Even though he's sinful. That is Kṛṣṇa's... That is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sun is never infected. Rather, the infected area becomes sterilized by the sunshine. This is the process. That is explained. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is very powerful, he has no fault.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And that is good. If a foolish man does not talk, it is good for him and good for others. Because he'll talk foolish. Better not to talk. That is good. That... Infectious diseased man... what is called? Quarantine.

Karandhara: Quarantine.

Prabhupāda: He's put separately so that he may not poison others. He may not poison others. So that is the position of the self-sufficient authority.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. It is, it is... We should push Kṛṣṇa consciousness as disinfecting agent. They're all infected, the whole world. So by chanting you disinfect.

Umāpati: Just by our presence chanting then?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore chanting is so important. Philosophy later on. First of all, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the heart.

Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Cleansing the heart. So by hearing this chanting their heart will be cleansed gradually. Then they will understand the real position.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...is contamination. Just like when a person is diseased, you find so many extra chemicals in his body. So a diseased person produces such chemicals, not that chemicals are the agents for his life. Try to understand. When a living entity is pure, when he becomes impure, these chemicals are produced out of... Exactly the same thing, just like when a man becomes contaminated, infected with some disease, you will find so many extra things, germs and chemicals in his body. So these extra chemicals, germs, are not responsible for his living condition. Because he is living and because in an awkward condition, therefore these things have been produced by him.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply meditating on sinful condition, that is also good. But what is the counteraction? That we must know. Just like one man is suffering from some disease. He knows that "I have infected this disease." So simply thinking, "Oh, I have been infected by this disease," that is not good. He must go to a physician to cure it. That is intelligence.

Karandhara: Yes. Or it's like a criminal. If he commits a crime, it's nice that he laments, but he can't just lament. He has to start working positively.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he must go to the state and offer, "Please kill me." Then state may consider. "I have committed this murder, so the law is: I must give my life. So I am prepared." Then immediately he will be excused.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The same way. Bodily suffering. Infection. The spiritual master accepts the all infection. So as the infection acts on the body, so there is little suffering. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa says, "All the sinful reaction of the surrendered soul..." So spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa. So he has also to accept. (break) ...the injunction is one should not accept many disciples. But for preaching work we have to do that.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And by taking their sinful money, because they do not engage to Kṛṣṇa, they also become sinful. Affection. Infection. (break) They have mentioned something like sinful?

Prajāpati: Yes, sinful.

Prabhupāda: What he has said, Karandhara?

Karandhara: He doesn't say specifically. He just said that generally the country is degraded and people have become apathetic, and the morals have reduced. He was referring to things like Watergate, political scandals, and the youth degradation.

Prabhupāda: But why they have degraded? That is to be understood... Not known to them.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Long ago one professor, medical professor, he said, he was Englishman—that in our country, 75% students are suffering from venereal disease. Colonel Megor (?). Yes. Colonel Megor. There must be venereal disease because sex life is so cheap. There must be venereal disease. And venereal disease, once infected, it brings so many other diseases, one after another, one after another. The cancer is also due to that. Madness. Yes. And the Vedic civilization knew it. Therefore first restriction: sex. Brahmacārī. First beginning, brahmacārī. No sex life. You see? Just to save. This venereal disease is mentioned in the Āyur-veda. It is called phiraṅgāmaya. Phiraṅga means "white Europeans." It is diseased... And medical science also says that it was begun from dog. The girls, they have sex life with dog and there is the beginning of venereal disease.

Viṣṇujana: Yes, from animal. Ass, dog, cow.

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning. So the girl becomes infected, and she distributes to all men who have sex life with... This is the beginning of sex life. And in Mexico I have heard that they regularly make theatrical demonstration, how a woman is getting sex with ass. Is it?

Bahulāśva: Yes. That is in Tijuana.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Brahmānanda told me. People have become so degraded. They make regular show, how sex life can be enjoyed with animals.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And therefore, mental speculators, they have been condemned. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Because they carry on, or they are carried by the chariot of mind, manorathena. Manorathena asati. Manoratha, when you drive on the chariot of mind, you cannot get any fixed idea. Because mind is flickering. Saṅkalpa-vikalpa. Mind's business is "Accept this, and again reject it." So all these speculators are doing. Somebody is putting forward some theory, and after some years he will himself reject or somebody else will reject. So manorathena, by mental speculation, you remain on the material platform. You cannot get any spiritual idea. Therefore harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Anyone who is not in the spiritual platform... Spiritual platform means to be a devotee of the Lord. The Māyāvādīs, because they are not devotees of the Lord, they are not on the spiritual platform. They are on the material platform. They are speculating, spirit—"something negation of matter." That's all. That is mental speculation. It is bad. "Good means negation of bad." They are thinking like that. They do not know, in this material world, bad and good are both the same thing. Because it is matter. That they do not know. They think, "This is bad, this is good." But they do not know, materially conceived anything, good or bad, they are the same thing. That they do not know.

dvaite bhadrābhadra-jñāna, saba—manodharma

ei bhāla, ei manda—ei saba bhrama

Dvaite means this external energy of Kṛṣṇa. There everything is infected.
Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Religion does not depend on history. It does not depend on history. It depends on culture, how one is sincere.

Dr. Patel: But when one culture is infected by a dirty culture of other people, the culture gets spoiled. You know, you put one...

Prabhupāda: Just like you are medical man. During British rule, you were medical man, and home rule, you are medical man. It does not mean it has to be changed because the government has changed. One who is unscrupulous, he changes.

Dr. Patel: What I mean to say is culture. If you take, put a...

Prabhupāda: Anything! Culture, this religious culture...

Dr. Patel: If you put two rotten mangoes in a tokari (?) of good mangoes, all will be rotten. That is what has happened to us.

Prabhupāda: So that means it is meant for the, who cannot resist.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But why they'll not...

Dr. Patel: If one man does not do it, the bathroom gets infected and all others get infection.

Prabhupāda: ...do not learn?

Devotee: (indistinct) (break)

Dr. Patel: No, diarrhea, bad stomach, they may get vomiting also tomorrow. One man vomited also. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...keeping dogs? Is that hygienic?

Dr. Patel: Dogs?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jivātmā is within this body, prakṛti. This is prakṛti, material nature, jīvātmā. So as you infect the quality of the prakṛti, you become, what is called, entangled.

Dr. Patel: And highest line comes in.

Prabhupāda: You become... I am explaining. You become entangled. Now, as soon as you become entangled... Suppose you become a dog. Now you suffer.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. You are suffering because you have associated with a particular type of material quality. Just like you have associated with some infectious disease. Now you are suffering. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo' sya. Why you affect...? Therefore one should remain always in sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa. What is that verse in the Bhāgavata?

naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu
nityaṁ bhāgavataḥ-sevayā
bhāgavaty uttama-śloke
bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī
(SB 1.2.18)
tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ
kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye
ceta etair anāviddhaṁ
sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati
(SB 1.2.19)

We have to go the platform of sattva-guṇa. Therefore these boys are being trained how to become in the sattva-guṇa. You cannot become a wise man... You remain in the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, and you become a wise man. That is not possible. You must suffer. So long you are infected with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. So this is the process. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ (SB 1.2.20). Again, bhagavad-bhakti. If you remain in the bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, then you become prasanna-manaso, sattva-guṇa. Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasidati.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why do you not understand? God does not create. But you create. Just like you infect some disease. So you create your disease. Nobody's creating your disease. The simple thing, why don't you understand? If you... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Guṇa-saṅga. If you associate with the different qualities of this material nature, then you inf..., you become infected. You, if you associate with the tamo-guṇa, then you become lower class man, animals. That is your fault. It is not Kṛṣṇa's fault.

Dr. Patel: All your actions and their effects, which are collecting on you... (break)

Guest (5): ...knows the procreating from the first word or some people would exercise their so-called free will and choosing sin, and still He creates them. If He were not to...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. There is no question of choosing. As soon as you associate some infections disease, it is not the question of disease. You must be diseased. This is the law of nature. If you infect the smallpox disease, then you must be suffering from smallpox. That is law of nature. Not that your father has created small pox disease for you. Try to understand like this. You infect yourself. (break) ...giving him chance.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That I have already explained. When you infect some disease, you suffer. That is your creation.

Guest (5): Why create the wrongdoers?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he does not hear Kṛṣṇa. He must be committing mistake. (break)

Mr. Sar: Ajñānenāvṛtaṁ jñānaṁ tena muhyanti jantavaḥ.

Dr. Patel: Muhyanti jantavaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Intelligence... Not only intelligence. Human life has got the discriminating power. Sad-asat. (Indians speaking) (break) ...infected, how your medicine will be sold? (break) ...merchant, I will say like that. (break) Since we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. We are... What is called? Prophylactic, prophylactic.

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...understand the inconceivable power of God. (break) First of all he has to come to the sattva-guṇa. Sthitaḥ sattve prasīdati.

tato rājas-tamo-bhāvāḥ
kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye
ceta etair anāvidhaṁ
sthitaḥ sattve prasīdati
(SB 1.2.19)

When one becomes free from the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, the symptom is... Rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa means lust and greediness. So when this rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa is absent, then the sattva-guṇa becomes prominent. Every guṇa is there. Tato rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ kama-lobhadayas ca ye, ceta etaiḥ... The consciousness does not become infected by the resultant action of tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. Then the only sattva-guṇa remains. So when one is situated in sattva-guṇa, sthita-sattve prasidati, then he becomes jubilant, prasidati. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). So one has to overcome the jurisdiction of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. At the present moment the whole world is covered mostly by tamo-guṇa and little by rajo-guṇa.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: If they are personally sinful, how they can lead other people? That is not possible. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If a man is himself blind man, how he can lead other blind men? That is not... It is dangerous for both of them. So the leaders, the politicians, the king, the brāhmaṇa, they should be very much pure, without any sinful tinge of life. And the pillars of sinful life is illicit sex life and meat-eating and intoxication and gambling. Now, unfortunately, the leaders are teaching people how to enjoy illicit sex life, meat-eating and intoxication. Then how the society can be happy? It is not possible. If you become criminal or if you infect some disease, you must suffer. Similarly, in the material world there are three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So if you associate with sattva-guṇa, then you become enlightened. If you associate with rajo-guṇa, then you are, I mean to say, pushed through passion. And if you are in ignorance, then you do not know what is right and wrong. Kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa is excessive lust and greediness. And sattva-guṇa, they are in knowledge.
Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that we must eat something. And vegetables also have got life. The nature's way is that one living entity is eating another living entity. It may be animal or it may be vegetable. The question is the obedience to the order of God. So when Jesus Christ says that "Thou shalt not kill," it means bigger animals. Killing is applied, from dictionary, if I kill a man, if I kill an animal, then this word is used. So he meant like that. And that is very reasonable. Because I am eating another living entity, that does not I can eat another man. So therefore Kṛṣṇa has specifically mentioned, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). After all, we have to eat. And if you take that all killing is the same, even by ordinary law, if I kill one tree, and if I kill one man, does it mean it is of the same degree? Even taking killing of plant, so there are comparative. But it is also necessity that we must eat something. So therefore here, perfect thing in the Bhagavad-gītā, that He says that "You offer Me." "Offer Me" means "After My eating, you shall eat." Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Even by killing vegetable, you are also as sinful as killing animal, but because we offer to Kṛṣṇa, therefore we are not sinful. Kṛṣṇa wants it. Just like Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna to fight and kill the other party. Therefore Arjuna is not infected with the sin.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Let us see. (break) Just like children, they are given some facilities. They must work according to that plan. Otherwise sometimes there is slap, "Huh, why you are doing like that?" like that. (break) ...your country. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrā-bhaumya idya-dhīḥ (SB 10.84.13). Bhaumya means bhūmi. Bhūmi, the land, idya-dhīḥ: "This is my duty: to serve my country, to serve my land." This is māyā. The rascal, he is engaged to "Do your duty to your country," and what is the country? Suppose if I do my duty and I may be driven away from my country next life, because there is no guarantee that I will have to take my birth... Just like one astrologer has explained that Jawaharlal Nehru has become a dog in Scandinavia. (laughs) There is chance. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You will have to change your body. Now, where it will be changed, how it will be changed, what kind of body you will get—that is not in your hands. That is not in your hands. You cannot say, "Oh, I am Prime Minister. I must get such and such body." That is not going to be accepted. But these foolish rascal people, they do not understand it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). I am acting under certain infection. So I am infecting, say, some venereal disease. So I must suffer for it.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He told me that when he was student, so one professor, Colonel Megar, he described in the classroom—he is Englishman—that "In our country, 75% of the students, they are infected with venereal disease." So Dr. Ghosh as a student, "Oh, it is horrible." So he replied, "Why do you say, 'Horrible'? It is disease. In your country, 90% people are infected with malarial disease. So as a medical practitioner, you should not say that this disease is horrible; that disease is very nice. You cannot say that." That was between them. So this venereal disease, fifty years ago we heard that 75% of students are infected. Now they are advanced; cent percent must be.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Then immediately you are under prison. It will take some time only. Just like if you infect some disease, It will take some time to manifest, but it will be manifested. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ. So in the, in the... Ordinarily, you can steal and hide yourself, but in the eyes of God, you cannot steal and hide yourself. That is not possible. You have stolen; you must suffer.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: His mind is being... His mental expression is Kṛṣṇa. He's always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma. We have got some propensity to create. Just like this beautiful place. We have got creative energy. Therefore it is advised that nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Make it for Kṛṣṇa. You'll find in India, they have also created big, big temples, four flight, but for Kṛṣṇa. Then the energy spent for creating this park, in relationship with Kṛṣṇa will be utilized as service to Kṛṣṇa. And if it simply meant for sense gratification, then you are under the laws of nature, contaminated. Just like if a man is very powerful, he's creating this park, but he is contaminated with some infection, he, will he not suffer?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He must suffer.

Prabhupāda: Does it mean that because he has created this park, therefore contamination will not act upon him? Is it a fact? It must act. So after creating all these things, if you contaminate some infectious modes of material nature, then you have to accept the body of cats and dogs. Then what is your benefit? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Kāraṇam, the reason for high and low grade birth is due to contamination with the modes of material nature. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: If you cannot define, there is no remedy for your suffering. Just like a disease, unless the physician knows what is the infection, he cannot treat. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says one thing: we don't have to put name on disease or we don't have to know this name is called like that, this name is called like that, to cure it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the system. If you go to a physician, he will try to understand what is the cause of the disease. Then he makes treatment.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: "Me" means from the spiritual master. If you don't work for Viṣṇu, Yajña, yajñārthe karmaṇaḥ anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9), then you will be entangled in this birth and death. Just like if I do not know what is healthy life, then, if I live whimsically then I will infect so many contaminous disease, and I will have to suffer one after another, one after another, one after another. Therefore the aim is Viṣṇu. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These people, they do not know that what is the aim of life, the aim is Viṣṇu. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are implicated with the external energy, therefore very much anxious to mitigate this suffering, mitigate that suffering, mitigate that suffering, that suffering, that suf... The suffering will never end. Simply they will be bewildered, one after another, one after another, sometimes man's life, sometimes a dog's life, sometimes cat's life. That's life. So this kind of philosophy is propounded by blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. One blind man is guiding another blind man without knowing the strict, stringent laws of nature. (aside:) There is one bead lying for three hundred years there. Whose? He has taken initiation. He does not know where is the bead? On the... There is a bead. Just see.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that may be, according to the body you are getting. There are 8,400,000 species of body. So according to your work you will be allowed to enter into the womb of mother. How can you check it? Where is your scientist? That is nature's law, automatically. Just like if you are infected, you get this disease. That's all. There is no need of mother nature will take personal... No, the rules are so fine that you will get automatically. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svā-bhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). The Kṛṣṇa's energies are so powerful and subtle that it takes everything takes automatically. One set up, then after that, after that, after that, after that—everything is there. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. You have no control. You are simply under the grip of material nature. Everything, whatever you are doing, immediately it is being recorded automatically. Just like automatic printing press. You simply push the paper, and magazine comes. If you can manufacture some machine, you rascal, then how subtle machine can work on under the supervision of the Supreme?

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: No. Pure consciousness is actually you are. Just like water. Water is pure. When it is comes from the sky, it is clear crystal water. But as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes muddy. Similarly, we soul, spirit soul, we are pure. As soon as we come in contact with this matter, material existence, we become impure. And there are three stages of impurity: goodness, passion and ignorance. So all of them are impure. Unless one comes to the spiritual consciousness—he may be a very nice man—he is infected with the impurity of goodness. He is thinking, "I am very big man, I am very..." That is also impurity. And another man does not know what he is, just like animal, all the animals. That is also impurity. When both of them will come to the clear consciousness that "I am part and parcel of God; my duty is to serve God," that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long he identifies with this material consciousness, he is impure. Just like people are fighting: "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am this," "I am that," "I am black," "I am white," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra"—so many, designations. These designations are impurity. Just like sometimes the artists, they manufacture some statue naked. In France I saw, naked. They take it this naked statue is pure art, not dressed. Similarly, when you come to the nakedness of spirit soul without this designation of this body, "I am American," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," that is purity.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So long they do not come to the standard platform, they will accept this sometimes and that sometimes. This will go on, changing.

Prof. Pater Porsch: No, but I meant it differently. Can it not be that average man in the street... I don't mean... Yes, it was, of course, in Germany. Man in the street now is infected from the...

Professor Durckheim: Absolutely, yes.

Prof. Pater Porsch: And he thinks that in order to give a rational presentment, (German) (break)

Professor Durckheim: ...I realize that the closer members engaged, really, in this work of distributing books and chanting, wearing the white robes and shaving the heads, they are the closer participants I suppose. And then have you also members of your movement which are simply in their work, in the community, in the world? Or is...

Prabhupāda: No, we invite everyone.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: ...has got this body of a tree and one has got the body of human being, demigod. So the reason is kāraṇam, kāraṇam means reason, guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, as he is infecting the modes of material nature. Infection. If we infect some choleric diarrhea, we suffer. Nature's law is. Therefore human being should be cautious not to infect. Just like educated man or civilized man, he is cautious not to infect some kind of contaminated disease. Similarly, human form of body with higher consciousness is there just to remain always cautious not to infect material, I mean, modes of nature. And that is devotional service.
Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

This is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, that "These rascals are working like madmen." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. And always doing mischievous, sinful activities. So this is not good. Because he does not know that for his mischievous sinful activities, he has got a body which is always miserable. So it will continue, to accept miserable body. Therefore it is not good. A doctor can see that "This man is infecting this disease and he will suffer." But the rascal man cannot understand that "I am infecting something and I'll have to suffer." (break) The karmīs, they are trying to become happy by improving this material condition. But he does not know that he is becoming implicated more and more. Because he'll have to accept the body. And there are so many varieties of body. (devotees laugh at something) This is childish. That, our Girirāja took some money.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Well, if one is weak, he may be infected by some disease. It requires some resisting power. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that, your answer, that "Only the fortunate person, they can get the shelter of bona fide spiritual master." Kona bhāgyavān jīva. Not all, kona. Kona means some.

Devotee (1):. Some, yes. Kona bhāgyavān...

Prabhupāda: Jīva. So as there are bhagavān—somebody is rich, somebody is poor; this is also due to fortune or misfortune—similarly, if one is spiritually fortunate he gets a bona fide spiritual master.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Why sannyāsī? Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya (BG 9.32). He does not say to become sannyāsī. He said, "One who takes shelter of Me very firmly..." We have to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. You become sannyāsī or not sannyāsī—it doesn't matter. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He never says that "You become sannyāsī." He never said. The qualification is how to become firmly fixed up at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is qualification. But sannyāsī is a process. Brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—that is a process. But one who takes directly shelter of Kṛṣṇa is above all these processes.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

Those who are pure devotees—avyabhicāreṇi, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11)—such persons are above this material infection.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: But you are saṅkīrtana. You cannot be infected. (break) ...party is infected, then preaching will stop. If doctor is infected, then treatment will stop. Doctor is never infected. They have good precautions. Similarly, when you are engaged in saṅkīrtana, māyā cannot touch. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. (break)

Tripurāri: ...disciples and you accept our karma also. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tripurāri: That is manifest sometimes in disease on your body?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you infect a certain type of disease, you must suffer from that disease. Similarly, there are three qualities of the material nature. So as you associate with that quality, you get a similar body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). How one is getting better life, one is getting worse life, the reason is associating, infecting the different types of modes of nature. That education we have no... There is no such education, what kind of association we should make so that we can better life or we can go back to home, back to God. There is no such education. They are living like cats and dogs and going to be cats and dogs.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:
Prabhupāda: If you associate, infect tamasic, ignorance, then you go down and down, become animal. And if you associate with goodness, then you go higher planetary system, even up to God. And if you infect rājo-guṇa, passion, then you remain here. Everything is there. Simply we have to accept and do it nicely. Then our life is successful. That we are teaching. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you have no other question? Finished?
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:
Prabhupāda: Yes. You... Just like you infect some disease. Then it is sure that you are going to grow that disease. And if you don't infect, then you don't grow that disease. Do you know this, infection? Disease infection?

Young man: Yes. Prabhupāda: So, if you don't infect a certain disease, then you don't grow it. And if you infect... Therefore you must know or you must know the rules and regulation, how you can save yourself from infection. If you are ignorant and if you infect some disease, epidemic, then you have to suffer. If you remain disinfected, then you don't get inferior body, you get superior body, in other planets. Or you can go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore I said that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for purification so that you may not get infected by the material modes. Therefore we advise our student four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. Plus chanting the holy name of God. Then you remain immune from the infection. And that you will feel practically also, if you adopt the means. Now it is up to us to decide whether I shall continue the life of infection or I shall remain immune from all infection. That is your decision. Better we should remain immune from all kinds of infection, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: "So then pay more money. Come on. You have earned money and give me. I shall give you food. And whatever I shall ask, you have to pay." This simple thing, more demand-price is more. Then why do you gripe, "Oh, everything is price growing, price growing." Why it will not? If I have got food, and you have to purchase, and I have got so many customers, I must increase. That is economic theory: more demand—the price is increased. And then you say, "There are so many problems. We have to solve first." But you have created this problem, rascal. And you shall must suffer. You have infected some disease. Now you must suffer. It is like say, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The reason is that you have infected some quality of the modes of nature and you must suffer for that. How you can deny it? If you have infected some disease like cholera, smallpox, and when you are suffering, how you can blaim? You have infected. You must suffer. Nature's law is so strict that as soon as you infect a particular type of quality of nature—there are so many—you must suffer for that, or so-called enjoy. There are two things, suffer and enjoy. So you must have to undergo the process. This is... Nature's process is so nice. As soon as you do something, there is reaction and you are bound up. Yajñārthe karma anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Bandhanaḥ means bound up. Immediately you become bound up. And still, you are thinking, "Independent." The nature's law is so strict.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Not properly dressed. And this poor girl is not properly dressed. And he's thinking he'll (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His head is in the clouds.

Haṁsadūta: I think Bali Mardana became infected by Śyāmasundara. He saw that Śyāmasundara was going to be a millionaire so then he had to also become a millionaire. So he got Mrs. Toyota.

Prabhupāda: He got a cheat wife. Eh? Mother said she cheated that "I am twenty-six years."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many things she cheated.

Prabhupāda: Simply cheated.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari (CC Adi 9.41). "First of all, you become perfect." If you are a devil, you cannot do it. The devil and divine. Divine means spiritually advanced, and devil means materially advanced. And because we are manufacturing divine, the devils are afraid of it. The devils do not like this movement. (Someone drives by:) Jaya. So just see, automatically they are offering respect. That means we are infecting them.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Ātmā is not coming into being, it is already there. But at the present moment it is accepting different types of bodies. Just like your this dress is available in the market. And you are also there, so you purchase the dress and put on. Similarly, the different types of bodies are already there. You according to your desire accept one type of body, and you appear in that body. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and you have to accept one of them. According to desire. According to your work. You are working. Everyone is working. Now, according to the work and association, he is creating his body. Just like if you infect some type of disease, then you'll have to accept that disease. So we are working ways—we are individuals—and according to that work we are creating our next body. If you are working in a godly way, then you'll get your body next as god, and if you are working in a dogly way, then you'll get your body as dog. So, by nature's way, evolution, we come through 800 millions of forms of life, then nature gives us a chance to accept this human form of body. In this body, our consciousness being advanced, if we try we can understand what is the problem of life, why we have accepted birth, death, old age and disease, how to get out of these, how to revive our original nature of body and again become eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. This is the chance of the human body. Therefore you are a philosopher because you are in the human body, but a dog cannot be a philosopher. He may be a very big dog, can bark very loudly, he has got very good strength, can create big disturbance, but he cannot understand philosophy. That is not possible. But a human being can understand. Therefore he should be given chance to understand the philosophy of life. And that is Vedas.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

engaged in warfare or administrative work. Similarly so with a vaiśya or a śūdra...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think it is... Maybe it is described in Seventeenth Chapter. According to our free will, we are associating with certain type of the modes of material nature, and then we become subjected to that material modes. The same example: you infect some disease, contamination, and you gain the result of it. So our endeavor should be how to raise ourself to the first, to the sattva-guṇa. That we can do. And then transcend sattva-guṇa and reach the spiritual platform. Everyone is trying to improve his position, but they do not know what is meant by improvement. Improvement means mostly they are in tamo-guṇa, ignorance. So rise from tamo-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa, and then sattva-guṇa to transcendence. That is improvement. So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, whole material world, mostly tamo-guṇa and few of them in rajo-guṇa. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa are lust and greediness. Just like yesterday you told me the students are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, that the education-students, they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, lusty desires, very prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their subject matter, kāma. So everyone in this material world infected with this tamo-guṇa, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties. And some of them in rajo-guṇa-politics and improvement of material condition.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Degradation can take place at any moment. We are in the material world. It is the degraded place. So infection can take place at any moment.

Devotee (2): It's always trying to creep in.

Prabhupāda: But if you remain steady in Kṛṣṇa consciousness then it will not touch; you'll not be infected. If you take proper vaccine, so even though you are in the diseased condition, you will not be infected. Otherwise there is chance of being infected of anyone.

Devotee (1): So if we devotees...

Srutakirti: Better move over. (Car approaches and passes)

Prabhupāda: Why they are coming here?

Devotee (1): They're coming to fish and to surf.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Now the material nature has gone, three modes goodness, passion and ignorance, and mixture. So we are association with the modes of material nature and according to that nature we are manufacturing our next body. This is the... So in the material world we are infecting several types of quality of the nature. Not everyone is on the same quality. Just like these boys, they are being trained up under certain quality, they're not going to the restaurant, they are not going to the liquor shop, they're not smoking, they're not eating meat, they are no illicit sex, they are being trained up, this is a quality. And another man is going to the liquor shop, to the brothel, so many other things. They're not of the same quality.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You have voluntarily accept her supremacy. Just like you have accepted some disease. So disease is forcing you. And if you cure, then it will not be able to force you. You infect some disease. Then you become forced by the disease to accept the miseries. But if you are not diseased, there is no question of force. If you become criminal, the police forces you. And if you are not criminal you have no business with the police. It is like this. Police control, controller—the controlling power upon me comes when I am criminal. Otherwise why police will control me? Therefore I voluntarily accept the control of police by my criminal desires. That is going on. That is material life.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If he... As he likes, if he infects some disease, he must suffer from the disease. Where is his independence? If you infect some disease, infectious disease, then you must suffer from the disease. That is nature's law. So where is your independence? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). It is all described. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so many varieties of life? Because he has associated with a particular type of modes of nature and he has got the body. Without any human sense he has learned to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination. Therefore nature will give the body of a pig. "All right, you eat anything up to stool. Up to stool you can eat." So how can you stop it? And because nature has given this body, he is relishing very good taste from stool. But this body, you cannot relish what is enjoyment in the stool. But because he has no discrimination of food, nature has given him, "All right, you can eat up to stool." Human life is meant for civilization, and they are trying to be naked. So next life will be: "All right, you remain naked standing as tree for five thousand years." How can you stop it? Wherefrom these varieties of life are coming? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is kāraṇam, that he is associating with different modes of material nature and he is getting a suitable body.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: We have to accept another body after death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As we are accepting different bodies in our this span of life from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age... So this is the example. And after this old age, after this body is useless, then I accept another body. And again another chapter of life begins. And on my next life, next body I am creating, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya, infection. Just like if I infect some disease, I am creating that disease. If I infect smallpox disease, then I must develop that disease. How it is, subtle way, working, that we cannot see. But if somewhere I have infected some disease, somewhere it will be manifest. It will manifest. You cannot check it. So in this material world there are three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. So as we associate, we develop a type of body. So these crimes means they do not get good association. Naturally they are developing. And now these boys, they are also Americans and Europeans. They are getting good association, and they are becoming free from all bad habits. We generally take bad character on the basis of illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling.
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We invite. As soon as they have got a leisure hour, let them come and live with us for one week and see the result. They can remain forever. It doesn't matter. But for experimental sake they can come, live with us and associate with us. It is not difficult. And we invite everyone. We have no such discrimination that black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, no. Anyone. It is universal. Because we consider every living entity is part and parcel of God. That is a fact. We are teeny gods, part and parcel. The same quality we have got—in minute quantity. Quality is the same, quantity is less. So God is good, so we are also good. But we have become bad under circumstances. Just like under infection, one becomes diseased. So if we cure that infection, again he becomes good. So it is the curing process. It is not an external artificial thing, imposed upon somebody, no. His goodness is there. Just like generally a man is healthy, but by infecting some disease he becomes diseased. So this material way of life is a kind of infection. So we have to cure that. And this is our process. And it has become successful. So therefore this problem of your country... I was this morning also lecturing that "You take up this movement very seriously and save your country." And if you save America, means you save the whole world because others are following America. So you can do it very easily. That is my appeal to the authorities of the American administration. But I do not want anything. For your countrymen, for your misguided youthful generation, you have to do it. That is my request. Otherwise there is no other way.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. It is a wholesale reaction. All these crises are taking place. They are killing their own child. Own child means that child is criminal; therefore it is being killed within the womb. Nature will take action. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You are not independent. So if you work independently, then you will have to suffer. The law of nature is there. You cannot avoid it. If you infect some disease, you must suffer from the disease. You cannot avoid it. This is the law of nature. Law of nature is working in such a way that as you are infecting... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse. Why there are varieties of life. One is tree, one is cat, one is dog, one is human being, one is blind, one is lame, one is educated, one is foolish—why? Why the difference, varieties? And that is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya: "As you are infecting the modes of material nature, you are getting your birth." Otherwise, how you can explain by nature there are so many varieties of life, 8,400,000 species of life?

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: No, that is infection. If you are weak, you are infected. That is the science. One who is not weak, he does not become infected. Just like in your country there are so many liquor shop, but you are not interested. So it is like that.

Dharmādhyakṣa: We have a little strength through your divine grace.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many slaughterhouses, but we are not infected. So it is the strength that saves one man from infection. (break) ...learned scholars, they are astonished that I have hypnotized. Otherwise how it is possible? What that Judah's, "charis"...?

Brahmānanda: Charismatic.

Prabhupāda: Charismatic.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Do that. Continue that. They will be infected.

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Infect them.

Bahulāśva: Their brains will be washed. We will have big success with this new temple here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Many of these students will come and visit us. People like us very much here, at least the students.

Prabhupāda: That is very good. Students are the future hope, young students.

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: In the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. Not recipe. The comparison is there in Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. Perhaps purposefully the recipe is not given so that you can take and misuse this. (laughter) And forget chanting. Because as soon as you get gold, then you are no more interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the infection of gold.

Paramahaṁsa: But I have gold.

Prabhupāda: No, you have gold. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not great quantities.

Paramahaṁsa: Originally when I came to the movement I asked you this, remember? And you gave lectures on the subject, and I asked you about it. And you asked me for what purpose I wanted it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't wonder you. But the gold has got such infection that if one... That is the whole world, that as soon as one has gold, he is no more interested with God. That is the infection. "Ah!" He will say, "This is meant for the poor class of men who has no gold. I have gold. I am God." You know that Kali-yuga. He was punished, that "You get out." Then he said that "Where shall I go? Everywhere is your kingdom."

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because they are now fond of you. The Indians have become infected by you; therefore they are diseased. You are all diseased, and now you infected them, they have also become diseased.

Brahmānanda: But why is there no disease here? Why is there no symptoms?

Prabhupāda: There is no disease? Why you are anxious about the cancer, the big disease? India may be suffering from small disease, and because you are suffering from big disease, therefore you are big. "We... I am suffering from big disease." First of all become diseaseless, then talk of that India is suffering and you are not suffering. You are big, and you are suffering from big disease, that's all.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They make analysis—"This is good; this is bad." The whole thing is bad; they do not understand. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakale samana, ei bhala ei manda saba manodharma. A mental concoction we analyze—"This is good." And because the whole population is such rascal, therefore we see whole world they are creating government, they are making this advancement, taking... Everything is spoiled. That they do not understand, that "We have tried so far, scientifically and this way and that way. Why there are so many things disturbing and miserable?" The whole policy is to give you trouble. That is the material nature. You must be always in trouble. Adhyātmika adhibhautika. "No." They will say, "No, this trouble is better than that trouble." (laughter) This is the... This trouble is better than that trouble. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Dr. Ghosh, he said... When he was student in Calcutta he was doctor of tropical medicine. So one English doctor was his professor, Colonel Maylow(?). So he was lecturing and... Now the friends have come to greet. He said that "In our country 75%, at least, students are infected with syphilis."

Brahmānanda: Infected to?

Prabhupāda: Syphilis, yes. So in India the syphilis is very horrible disease. So he exclaimed, "Oh, it is horrible." The doctor, that Colonel Maylow(?), he was astonished: "Why you say it is horrible? In your country they suffer, 90%, from malaria. That's not horrible?" So the example is that when you are suffering for a doctor, either you are suffering from malaria or from syphilis, we are suffering from disease. Why you say "This disease is horrible than that disease"? Actually this is the fact. Why should you discriminate? So he chastised him that "As a medical man, you cannot say this disease is more dangerous than that. Every disease is dangerous."

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: External, but you are animal. (laughs) You cannot understand. You see. Mūḍha. "External." Why external? You violate the laws of nature; immediately you'll be punished. Why external? You infect some disease; you'll be immediately punished. Why external? It is the law of nature. You must have to follow; otherwise you'll be punished. You have got experience. If you touch fire... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you touch fire, then it must burn. Why? Can you restrict the fire? Similarly, laws of nature is so strict, as soon as you violate... Laws of nature means God's nature.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is a verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, etad īśanam īśasya. This is the, what is called, īśanam, means controlling power, of Kṛṣṇa, that when He comes in this material world, He is not infected.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Therefore this process is recommended. Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, not with ordinary public. Ordinary public—"Go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and dancing." Never argued, neither He discussed Bhāgavatam. For ordinary public-four hours' kīrtana, chanting and dancing, bas. And then give them sufficient prasādam: "Take prasāda." This process... Because unless he has got little śraddhā, he will simply put some false argument and waste your time. Not in the beginning. Mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. First of all create him a devotee a little. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa-harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21)—only. Because this is Kali-yuga, people are so fallen, so downtrodden, so rascal, cats and dogs. It is very difficult. But this process—chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, giving them chance to hear it and take prasādam—that will cure. And that is easily accepted by anyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Anyone will accept. To chant and dance and take prasādam—no one will disagree. So this is the process. When they come to the temple... Just like these boys. You are offering obeisances; they are also offering. But that will go to their credit, to become bhakta. This process should be adopted. Not in the beginning, but in the beginning give them prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And try to sell some book. You pay something. That means he is giving some service, the hard-earned money. That will also go to his credit. And then, when he'll concerned that "I have paid for it. Let me see what this nonsense has written. All right. Read." And that will also convince him. This is the way. He'll keep this body, book, and show some friend, so the infection will go on.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole process is how to purify ourself. So by... according to eating, the purification also... I think Mr. Bernard Shaw, he wrote one book that "You Are What You Eat." And that's a fact. We constitute our bodily atmosphere and mental atmosphere according to eating. So our Kṛṣṇa conscious movement recommends... Not the movement recommends. It is recommended in the śāstra that to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you eat the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. Just like opposite way: if a tuberculosis patient eats something and if you eat the remnants, then you will be infected with the tuberculosis bacillus. Is it not? So similarly, if you eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam, then you infect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our process. We don't take anything directly. We offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take kṛṣṇa-prasādam. That helps us. We do not take anything... We cannot take anything from the restaurant or from the shop. No. We prepare everything, offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Therefore we call them stupid, rascals. There is no chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, Kṛṣṇa says, kāraṇam (BG 13.22). There is no question of chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Because you do not know how you are infecting... Just like you become all of a sudden attacked with cholera. You are thinking that it is by chance. It is not chance. Eh? What this medical man will... "It is chance." No. You infected somewhere. You do not know. And because you are foolish, you are taking it as chance. There is no question of chance.

Harikeśa: But it was by chance I infected.

Prabhupāda: No, not chance. Why did you go where there is cholera case? That is your foolishness. Why did you go there? When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden, not to go there. So you went there without any knowledge and you infected. Now you are suffering. That's all. There is no question of chance. That is foolishness. Chance means ignorance. The ignorant people, they do not know. They infect sinful activities, and they say, "by chance." There is no question of chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, Kṛṣṇa says. There is no chance.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is use of independence. Otherwise what is the meaning of independence? The meaning of independence is: "If I like, I can do. If I do not like, I do not do." That is independence. That means independence. If you are stereotyped, forced to do, that is not independence. Independence means if you like, you can do it, if not—you don't like-don't do it. That is independence. So misused independence means ignorance. He does not know that "If I infect this virus of this disease I'll suffer." But he does not know, ignorance. So he infects and he suffers.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then you must first of all rectify your karma. Then talk. Past karma, you have got this body. Therefore you must rectify your karma. Karmano 'pi bodhavyam akarmana. You must know what is karma, what is akarma, what is vikarma. That is knowledge. If you remain blind about your karma and by nature's way you get different body, then what is your knowledge? Just like if you go to a doctor, he says that "Due to this infection, you have got this disease," so you know it so that in future you will be very careful. That is knowledge." I do not know why I have got this disease, and still, I do not know what further it is going on"—that is ignorance. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. To remain in ignorance, that is the greatest sin. Tamasi ma: "Don't remain in darkness." That is Vedic injunction, "Enlighten yourself." Jyotir gama: "Go to the light." But where is your light, you do not know. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why don't you arrange for that? You have to arrange. Yes. (break) ...king. Their constitution, first word is "the king can do no wrong." Yes, that is the Vedic system. Suppose a king beheads somebody by his own sword, as it was being done. Nobody can charge him that "Without any trial he has killed this man." No. Whatever is done... Just like we take Kṛṣṇa, apāpa viddham. Kṛṣṇa is never touched with any sinful activities. Apāpa-viddham. Tejiyasam na doṣaya (SB 10.33.29). Just as the sun, because it is very, very powerful, nothing can infect it. These are the dangers. (Hindi?) Of course, if you want to keep one in very exalted post, at the same time, if you want to find fault with him, then that is not good. That is not good. That is also stated, that arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. If somebody thinks that the Deity is made of stone and he criticizes, that is not allowed. If one thinks spiritual master as ordinary human being, that is not allowed. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. So those who are in highly exalted post of the state, you cannot find out fault with him. That is real Vedic way.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...infection and disinfection also, but you don't take to disinfection. That is our... Here is disinfection, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Who is going to take it? They will prefer to be infected. (break) ...respectable person will send their children to gurukula. They don't want. I tried in the beginning. It was a failure. They don't want. Just like Prahlāda and Hiraṇyakaśipu. What is the trouble? The Prahlāda was devotee, and his father did not like him, that "Why you should be devotee? You become politician, diplomat." That is the difficulty, that nowadays everyone is Hiraṇyakaśipu, and he wants that his son should be diplomat, politician, black market and... What is the use of this Prahlāda? That is going on, especially in India. (break) Hiraṇyakaśipu, he'll never like to see his son Prahlāda. And our system is to make Prahlāda. So nobody will like it.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Śāstra says. You conjecture, but we don't conjecture. We simply repeat what is said in the śāstra. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. "Your eyes should be the śāstra, not conjecture." Śāstra says, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. He has become a dog on account of his infection with certain type of material qualities. That is our eyes. We don't conjecture anything. It is naturally may be inquired that "Why one living entity has got this body of a dog and why one living entity has got the body of King Indra?" The śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Śāstra says, Kṛṣṇa says. So it is, reason is, that he has infected the certain type of material modes of nature; therefore he has got. It is very easy. As you, medical man, you know how the disease has come, you have infected the disease. It is that.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kāraṇam. Kāraṇam, yes. I am layman. I cannot say why I have got this fever. You can... By analysis, you can say. So therefore śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Śāstra says, "You analyze his blood, and if these symptoms are there, therefore this disease is there." That is śāstra, not conjecture. You don't diagnose by simply imagining. No. That is not scientific treatment. You analyze blood, stool and this, and find out what is the germ. Then you analyze. And in the śāstra the symptoms are there, analytical, that "This kind of disease, the symptoms will be this, this, this, this." That is śāstra, not conjecture. Kāraṇa guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "This rascal has infected this body on account of his particular connection with the modes of material nature." In the smṛti-śāstra it is stated how one gets tuberculosis, how one gets this disease, that disease, different pāpa.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So it will never be foiled. Let us now begin village to village.

Mahāṁsa: People in the villages, they are innocent, but they have been infected with so many vices. They are all drinking toddy every day.

Prabhupāda: They'll... If they chant, they will forget it.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. And the government is pushing toddy sales because they make money on it. They make tax.

Prabhupāda: They want money, that's all.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Again rascaldom, "chance." Who is making this chance? Can I make you by chance a dog? That is not possible. There is no such chance. It is by karma-phala. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ. The chance is that you are rascal, fool; you do not know what chance will make me what. Just like you infect some disease; you suffer from that disease. So this happens to the rascal. One who is intelligent, he does not infect. He is always cautious. Therefore this chance of infection is not there. Actually you cannot say "chance." It is your ignorance. You create chance. Because you do not know what will happen after something, on account of ignorance it is chance. But if you are fully aware, there is no question of chance. An intelligent student, he does not think, "By chance I may be passed." He reads properly. He appears in the examination, give the proper answer. It is not chance. And if he thinks, "All right, by chance I will be passing the..." Is it very intelligent? These rascals are talking like that. There is no question of chance. On account of ignorance they commit something infectious, and they suffer. And because they cannot explain, they say it is chance. It is not chance. It is due to some cause.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Anyone who imitates Kṛṣṇa on the plea that "Kṛṣṇa has played this; therefore we shall do." He can do anything. He can eat meat and He can eat the whole universe. That was shown to His mother: "Mother, you are angry because I have eaten dirt. Now see within My mouth the whole universe is in. So what is the question of dirt and sea and ocean? I can eat everything." (break) ...sam na doṣāya. Just like this sun. It dry up this urine. It is not infected. But you lick up this urine and let us see how powerful you are. Tejasaṁ na doṣāya. Who is powerful, he can do anything and everything, whatever he likes. You cannot do that. (break) ...example. This urine, within an hour it will be dried up. How it is dried up? Due to the sun. But the sun is not polluted. But you try to dry up and see the result.
Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise even a devotee like Bhārata Mahārāja, he had to accept the body of a deer. A little careless. Then nature's law will act. Hm? If you do not become cautious and if you infect the smallpox disease, you have to suffer. Therefore a civilized man takes process, caution, "Oh there is smallpox disease, I shall not go there. Or if I go there, I must take vaccine." This is human civilization, caution. And if you are animal, you do not know. So human life means not animal life. Very reasonable, very cautious, educated, cultured, that is human life. Not animal life. Drink like animal, or eat like animal, have sex life like animal. Freedom, animal has got all freedom. So that freedom is not allowed to the human beings. That is civilization. The same example. The animal has got freedom and you'll see in Indian market, vegetable market, some cow comes and eats, takes so many vegetables and eats, but he's not going to the court. But if you take one small piece of chili without, then you'll go to the court. So therefore, law is meant for human beings, not for the animals. Those who want to be free, they are animals.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, why passport? Even in our country, Mahātmā Gandhi was also infected: "Quit India." "Quit India."

Dr. Patel: No, he did not mean quit India. He meant "You quit your matter of ruling." I mean actually...

Prabhupāda: It was the exact word, "Quit India."

Dr. Patel: You know it more than me, sir, that in 1929 he told Britishers that "You rule India from the basis of they are ruling Canada." So he offered to give them ultimatum. Britishers did know real stuff of India, otherwise they would have acted better.

Prabhupāda: That's not.... As soon as you think "He is my enemy and he is my friend," then there is no education. That's all. This is standard of education. Ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. That is education. Sama darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva (BG 5.18). That is education. That is.... Kṛṣṇa says, nanu śocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Nanu śocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "Ah, you are rascal." It is not the business of the paṇḍita to think like that. He never thought that the Kauravas were the enemy. No. That is not the fact. It is duty to fight the just cause. That was His instruction.

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Material nature means because you are in diseased condition in this material world, therefore according to the infection. Just like you have got body, and he has got body. You are suffering from typhoid; he is suffering from smallpox. So you have contaminated the typhoid germs, and he has contaminated smallpox. So the, this body is after all material body, so there is infection of material nature, tri-guṇātmaka. Therefore you have to transcend this position of tri-guṇātmaka. Then you are cured.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicārena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
braham-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

If you transcend the infection of the three modes of material nature, then you are safe. So long you do not transcend, just like so long we infect some disease, then you must suffer. But if you don't infect, you'll not suffer. That is up to you. There is disease, cholera disease; why shall I go there? Why shall I infect my body in that way? That is up to you. If you don't take precaution, then you will suffer.

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but he is covered by the material body. The material body is infected by the modes of material nature. Therefore, although he is pure, he is subjected. Just like when there is motor accident, you are separate from the motor, but you have to suffer. Everyone knows that I am separate from the motorcar, but why I am suffering? Because you have got bad car, you must suffer.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Advanced demon. Actually they are advanced demons, asura, asurī-bhāvam āśritaḥ, being infected with the contamination of atheism, godlessness. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.... (chants japa)

Hariśauri: They're actually very expert at avoiding the real issues.

Prabhupāda: That is.... A child can also do that. That is not expert. A child can advance in foolishness without any guidance. If the child touches fire and if somebody says, "This is advancement of knowledge," then imagine what is the position. Similarly, all these rascals, they are endeavoring. Just like Hiranyakasipu. He endeavored all through how to become immortal, which is impossible. But he advanced in that foolishness. Hiranyakasipu was such a big demon, his only idea was that "The devatās, they attack us sometimes. But now I shall attack them and plunder them. But because I am now practically immortal, what they will do? They cannot kill me. So I will go on with my demonic activities, and then they cannot do anything." This is his foolishness.

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this material mind. You see a madman. He is also acting in his mind. The mind is polluted; he is acting differently. Mind is there, but it is covered by some infection. Therefore a madman is thinking this way, that way, this way, that way. That's all.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. According to... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). So according to the guṇa he's infecting, the body is made. If you infect some disease, smallpox, then you must get the disease. There is no excuse.

Hṛdayānanda: So a devotee... It is said in Bhagavad-gītā that a devotee is above the modes of nature.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hṛdayānanda: It is said in Bhagavad-gītā, sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). So when a devotee becomes very advanced, does that means that he should not feel a particular, an inclination to do a particular work but simply want to serve Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise how they can give up sex life? Unless he is liberated, how he can give up sex life?

Harikeśa: That's something which puzzles all the materialists.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Natural sequence.... Just like you are infected, some contaminous disease. You'll suffer. There is a story that one fool was sitting on a branch of a tree and he was cutting off. And somebody said, "You'll fall down." "Ha, fall down." But when he fell down he said, "Oh, you are a great astrologer." So who goes to the astrologer? Only fools and rascal. No sane man goes. They know that what is.... Yad bhavyantam tad bhavata.(?) What is to happen, that will happen. Why shall I go to astrologer?

Gurukṛpā: I can prepare myself to make change.

Prabhupāda: Yes. My only business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. I don't mind what will happen next.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then again you are rascal. You infected some disease. Then you became sick. There is no chance.

Guru-kṛpā: The other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I went in the shower, and I turned on the shower, and the thing broke and hit me on the head. It was chance.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are rascal, therefore it hit you.... (laughter)

Guru-kṛpā: So it was chance.

Prabhupāda: It was not chance. You are a rascal, and you were hit on the head.... (laughs) That is not chance. The cause is your rascalism. So you cannot find out anything by chance. Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, you can find out anything by chance? This is simply rascaldom, chance theory.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fate. Fate is the cause, destiny. Otherwise, so many people are working hard. Why not everyone is becoming rich by chance? Kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. This is the instruction in the Bhāgavatam. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. There are two things—happiness and distress—and they are being controlled by the time. You have infected some disease. In time, it will come out, manifested, and the doctor say, "Oh, you infected this disease. Take this injection." The time factor. It.... You have to wait to see the result. It is not chance. As soon as you do something, immediately the reaction begins. But you do not see the result immediately, but wait and you'll find. Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everyone who will commit sinful activities will be punished. That is nature's law. Exactly like that: If you infect some disease, you must suffer from that disease. The nature's law is so strict, and it is going on. It doesn't require any supervision. The supervisions are already made so perfect. You infect this disease: you suffer from it. That's all.

Pañca-draviḍa: In.... In the society, if somebody would be...

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, if you break the laws, you suffer. Anywhere.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. His nature is to become happy. He is happy, happy. Just like our natural position is we are healthy. Nature has made this body. But we create such situation that we become ill, sick. And at that time we see, "Oh, I am..." What is that? "I am infected. I have been contaminated." Go to the doctor, injection. But the natural life is no disease.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: You have infected some disease. You suffer. Then the enviousness(?) of Kṛṣṇa will go away by suffering.

Guru dāsa: So the pure devotee is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So this question of freedom of jīva and control of Kṛṣṇa, that there is freedom but at the same time there is no freedom, is a very fine line between the two that sometimes we do not understand.

Prabhupāda: But why don't you understand? Just like you belong to a free nation, the American. Does it mean you are free to do anything and everything?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: With your limited freedom.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), "Don't desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not cheater. The Kṛṣṇa's energy is so powerful that anyone who is a cheater, he will be cheated, that's all, automatically. (break) If you infect some disease, you'll have to suffer, automatically. It is not that the disease has to be injected. No. Because you have infected, you'll suffer. The same law is there. You have done this sinful. You'll suffer that. That is the cycle of birth and death. You have created mentality. You'll become the same animal, and you suffer. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). (break) ...we have. We have seen this cloud, extraordinary.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I do not know eighteen lakhs, but I know he went to Germany for medical operation and changing the gland with monkey's gland. Yes. He was eighty years old at that time.

Devotee (2): The leaders are so infected. There was an article recently...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). That is already dictated by Bhāgavata. These leaders, rascals who are blind, and they are trying to lead other blind men. All of them are falling in the ditch.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the case of Mahārāja Veṇa there was some recourse for the brāhmaṇas. What can we do?

Prabhupāda: Yes, brāhmaṇas were controlling the kṣatriyas. They were obeying the instruction of brāhmaṇas. That is social function. The first-class man will give instruction to the government, and the government will carry the order, "Whether people are actually doing this?" Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. And vaiśya will produce food grain and milk sufficiently. And the śūdras, they will help these three higher classes. That's all.

Room Conversation -- April 30, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: All right, that is also kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Prasādam means we offer the foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa; then it is prasādam. So you have not come, but you have to come to take prasādam. This, it has got connection with Kṛṣṇa. So therefore we welcome you that at least for eating, you are coming to Kṛṣṇa. Gradually, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa, by eating only. Kṛṣṇa is not so easy to be understood, but we are giving you facility to eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam so that one day you can understand this movement. This is the policy. Actually, that is the policy. We are not poor-feeding. That is not our philosophy. Like Vivekananda. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. No, we are not after that. We are giving you prasādam. And that is fact, that by eating, eating, eating, eating, you one day will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by eating. Because you are so dull, you cannot understand the philosophy. You know the belly like the animals. So therefore we are giving facility, "All right, fill up your belly, fill up your belly. And you'll be infected." As you take foodstuff from a infected area, you become infected with some disease, so this is Kṛṣṇa infected, prasādam. You take it, and one day you'll be diseased with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is a fact.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Those who are infected, they should be separated. You cannot make any compromise.

Satsvarūpa: His point was that even amongst ourselves, even amongst the devotees, he says, there is not enough expression of love, because we don't allow...

Prabhupāda: Well, then.... Trying to be perfect.

Satsvarūpa: Flesh, skin disease.

Prabhupāda: Perfect does not mean that they should eat meat and drink wine. That does not mean. What is his objection?

Satsvarūpa: I think what it comes down to is that he objects that we are against illicit sex.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) That means he is accustomed.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's going to become a dog next life and if he does not take precaution, then he is not envying himself? In this life you are prime minister, and next life, you are preparing to become a dog, so what is the use of becoming prime minister? You could not save yourself. Nature's law will go on. You may become prime minister or any minister, but the law will act. If you have infected some disease, so the disease will develop. It doesn't matter whether you are prime minister or this minister. So these rascals say they do not know it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse. This low-grade birth, high-grade birth, why it is happening? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: We are practically seeing it, that material nature... Some infection, this is also material nature, and if you are infected with some contaminous disease, you must suffer. They practically see it. The nature will work. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthaḥ. As soon as we are in this material world... I am living entity, spirit soul, and because I am in this material world, I have accepted this material body under the regulation of the material laws. Otherwise why there are so many varieties of life? Here is a tree. It is standing here. We are human beings; we are also here. But when there is cold blast, scorching heat, we can go into the room, but he has to be standing here for thousands of years. Why this distinction? It cannot move even an inch. It is also living entity. Why he is punished in that way? And when there will be snowfall, pinching cold, he cannot go. But a small ant, it can go from here to there. Moving and not moving, the two kinds of living entities... Some of them can move; some of them cannot move, sthāvara. Just like grass. We are trampling over with our legs. It cannot protest. Why these differences of grades of life? This is described here. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte (BG 13.22)

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Because this prakṛti, nature, is made of three modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Just like we are trying to associate with sattva-guṇa—no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling. So others, they are not anxious for these thing. They will say, "What is the wrong there? You can do that." But because you are infecting that tamo-guṇa, you'll have to suffer. You'll have to become a tree; you have to become a dog. How you can stop it? Where is your science? Why the scientists dying? Why they cannot invent some means, a tablet, that "At the time of my death, push this tablet in my belly. I'll not die"? Why they are unable to do so? Who can answer this? Why the rascal scientists do not manufacture such things that there'll be no death for the scientists? Hm? What do you say? Anyone for scientists can plead? (laughter)

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The life comes from the man. The living entity takes shelter of the semina, and the semina is discharged in the womb of the woman, and if the situation is favorable, then the living entity remains there and that body develops. This is pregnancy. And that yoni, that mother, is situated, selected by daiva-netreṇa, by superior management: "This man has worked..., this living entity has worked in such a way, he should go to such and such womb." Then if he goes to a queen's womb he becomes a prince; if he goes to the dog's womb he becomes a dog. The mother gives the body. And the superior's order is there, "Now you must go to the dog's womb. He must go to the queen's womb." Otherwise, how it is from the birth one is prince, another is dog, if there is no superior? Who likes to become a dog? No. But according to his karma, by superior arrangement, he has to take. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). He has infected the contamination of material modes of nature, and he must develop a type of body according to that consciousness.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, that is possible, I can become prime minister or any big man. But if I do not work properly, if I work like animal, then my next life is animal. There is no consideration that "Here is a prime minister, why he should become a dog?" Nature will act. If you infect some disease, you may be prime minister or you may be a common man, if you have infected that disease, you must suffer from that disease. That is nature's law. There is no consideration that "Here is prime minister. He has infected the malaria germs. He should not suffer." Nature's law if not like that. Just like you say that in India there is malaria. So your daughter was not excused, that "Here is a girl coming of very respectable, good family. She should be excused." No excuse. You have infected malaria germ, you must suffer. So similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). We are associating with different modes of material nature, and according to our association, sat, asat, good birth or low-class birth is there—either as demigods in the higher planetary system or human being in the middle planetary system or as animals, low class.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is that? Sa-doṣam api na tyajet (BG 18.48). Even your profession is infected with so many faults, you don't agree, don't give it up. He's giving the example: the fire is so nice, purify, still there is smoke. So in the material world, whatever you do, there will be some fault. If you want faultless action, that is not possible. Therefore we cannot give up your occupational duty even there are some faults. Sa-doṣam api na tyajet.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: As you identify with the body, then you suffer. (break) ...body is damaged, you are not damaged, but because you have got attachment for the motor car, you suffer. (break) ...song by Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura, yāhā smṛti nāhi yār, saṁsāra-bandhana kahata. One who has forgotten that he is this body, he has no suffering. (break)

Devotee (1): Then, if Sanātana Gosvāmī had all those infections in his body, and Lord Caitanya embrace him, he felt so distressed and so lowly.

Prabhupāda: Hm, so (this) instructs us that even Sanātana Gosvāmī had to suffer. What you are nonsense. You should not be sorry for suffering. That is the instruction. Why you are trying to avoid suffering? That is the instruction.

Devotee (1): Sanātana Gosvāmī, he accepted this sickness as a result of his own sinful past activities, he was so humble.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee: So we should follow that example, and accept like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the instruction.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: Everyone is infected with this "Life comes from chemicals." That I was talking to the air hostess on the plane coming, and she said, "But life comes from chemicals." This is the way everybody's taught in the schools, they don't know any different and they don't think about it, they have no intelligence to understand.

Prabhupāda: And as soon as we say that you take an egg and find out the chemicals and put it into the incubator or under a chicken, get life, "No, wait millions of years." This bluffing. And this moon planet going means Arizona. That is now disclosed. They take photographs in the Arizona. That's all.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like a... Without any knowledge if we infect some disease, it will manifest in due course of time, and you have to suffer. Similarly without any knowledge we are infecting the modes of material nature and according to that modes of material nature, you have to accept a type of body which may not be very comfortable. Of course there is no comfort when there is death. We don't want death, but there is compulsory death. There is no comfort at all. But still the short duration of life, if we have little comfort... But again if we have this comfortable life, then what is the benefit of this comfort? That material laws of nature, we do not know, neither any education about (this). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving that education. Therefore it is not a sentimental so-called religious movement, it is a scientific movement of real education. To solve the problems of life.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: One has to realize that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, and the spirit soul is within the body, and after annihilation of this body, the spirit soul is transferred to another body. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. And we have to transmigrate to any one of these forms. So today I am in American body or Indian body, very comfortably situated, but at the time of death my particular mentality will transfer me to a particular type of body. Exactly like if a man infects some contagious disease he has to develop that disease. It is very subtle material laws. So similarly, we are composed of gross body and subtle body. The gross body is made of this earth, water, air, fire, ether, like this. And the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. And the spirit soul is within that outward gross and subtle bodies. When the gross body is annihilated, the subtle body, mind, carries the soul to a similar body as he was thinking at the time of death. It is, example is given... Just like the flavor of a rose garden is carried by the air or the bad odor of a filthy place is also carried by the air, similarly, mind, intelligence carries me to a particular type of body as I was absorbed in thought at the time of death.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You believe or not believe. A fool man's, fool's belief is different from a learned man's understanding. So if he says that "I believe in it," nature's law is different. Nature will not care whether you believe or not believe. It will work. Just like if you have infected some disease, so you are getting fever. Now if I say "My dear Mr. such and such, now you infected smallpox. Therefore symptoms are there." And if you say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." So will you be protected from the laws of nature? So this is rascal's proposal, "I believe," "I don't believe." You believe or not believe, who cares for you? If you have infected, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Find out. After death you are going to get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So how you can know what kind of body you are going to get? First of all generally they don't believe transmigration. So they believe or not believe, the process is going on. So this is going on in the modern world, "I don't believe it." You believe or not believe, you cannot check the nature's law. But their dull brain cannot understand it that nature's law is very, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), but thinking that they'll conquer over nature. That is their proposal, is not, Bali-mardana? They think that they'll conquer over the laws of nature.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. If he's qualified, if he qualifies himself in this life to go back home, back to Godhead, then he can go. If he does not qualify himself, he gets another material body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. And according to his desire and karma, activities, the nature, laws of nature, gives him a body. Just like a man infects some disease and he develops that disease. Is it difficult to understand?

Mike Robinson: It's very difficult to understand all of it. Perhaps we can...

Prabhupāda: Now suppose somebody has infected some smallpox disease. After seven days it develops. What is that called, that period?

Mike Robinson: Incubation? Is that the word?

Prabhupāda: Ah, incubation, no, another technical, yes, that after some time, the disease comes. There is a technical name. Anyway, so you cannot avoid it. If you have infected some disease, it will develop by nature's law. It is not possible to avoid it. Similarly, during our this life, we are in association with different modes of material nature, and that will decide what kind of body we are going to get next life.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: So in this life you may be a prime minister, but if you have worked like menial dogs and hogs, then you are going to get body of a dog and hog. That is nature's gift. You cannot check it. You have no hand on the administration of the nature. That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). If you have infected some disease, you must suffer from that. This is nature's law. You cannot say, "Although I have infected the smallpox disease, I'll not suffer." No, you have to suffer. Or you have to die of that disease. You cannot check it. So they do not know how nature is going. Declaring independence. That is foolishness. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). And people are kept in ignorance. There is no school, no college, no institution to give instructions about this science. This is the position of modern civilization. People are kept in ignorance. They got the chance of human body to understand the value of life, but they are not given education by the father, by the guardian, by the king, by the guru.
Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says...

Mr. Sharma: If I say, I pray to God, "O Lord Kṛṣṇa, I surrender unto You." So is..., māyā will not touch me? I will not be affected by this material infection?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you fully surrender, māyā will not touch you.

Mr. Sharma: How one surrenders? What is meaning of surrender?

Prabhupāda: Surrender as He says, sarva-dharmān... You have nothing to do. You have simply to do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is surrender. You cannot reserve anything, that "I do it something for me and something for Kṛṣṇa." That is not surrender. You have nothing to do except what Kṛṣṇa says. That is surrender.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So the time is very bad, but nature's law is very strict. We may defy it, "There is no God, there is no next birth, there is no nothing." We may say like that, but when death will come, you cannot say anything. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Bas, all your talkings, all your intelligence taken away. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Immediately transferred to another body. Daiva-netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). "No, no, I am Prime Minister!" "No, you must become a dog." Immediately. How can you protest? You cannot protest. You have acted like dog, just become a dog. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Just like your medical science, you have infected the disease, you must suffer disease. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ, guṇa-saṅgaḥ. There's infection.
Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: On account of his being in touch with the material energy, he has to suffer or enjoy the modes of material nature. Modes of material nature. And because, just like in your medical science one is suffering from a certain type of disease on account of his being infected by the similar verus or..., what is called?

Mahāṁśa: Virus.

Prabhupāda: Virus.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Here it is very clearly stated that kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The biology, infection. Kāraṇam, that is the kāraṇam. Kāraṇam guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are varieties of life? One is very intelligent...

Guest: You know also in (Sanskrit).

Prabhupāda: Same thing.

Guest: Same thing, no? Everything has light. Only it is in transformation by that formula it is inanimate to animate. That is what is happening all around us.

Prabhupāda: So, if from... Just like medical science... It is also a medical science. Bhavauṣadhi. It is... auṣadhi means medical science. This is bhavauṣadhi. By this treatment one becomes relieved from the material disease. Bhavauṣadhi. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. But the medicine is so nice that it is pleasing to the ears and to the heart. The medicine pleasing to the ear? What is that.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:
Prabhupāda: It is a great offense, therefore, to consider Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to be an ordinary man. Those who do so are certainly deluded because they cannot understand the eternal form of Kṛṣṇa. In the Bṛhad-vaiṣṇava mantra it is clearly stated that one who considers the body of Kṛṣṇa to be material should be driven out from all rituals and activities of the śruti. And if one by chance sees his face, he should at once take bath in the Ganges to rid himself of infection. People jeer at Kṛṣṇa because they are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their destiny is certainly to take birth after birth in the species of atheistic and demoniac life. Perpetually, their real knowledge will remain under delusion, and gradually they will regress to the darkest region of creation.

Indian man (3): I was reading this yesterday, the Eleventh Chapter. There are twelve, twelve chapters. There Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān had a dialogue with Uddhava.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Naturally. Suppose if there is some infectious disease, the doctor says, "Don't go there." And if you go there, you'll be infected. You'll suffer. How the doctor can protect you? Doctor's duty is to warn you not to go to that area, "It is now infected with smallpox." But in spite of doctor's instruction, if you go there and if you infect that disease and suffer, then it is your fault. When a man is hanged by the judgment of the court, do you think that the high-court judge is inimical to that person? He's giving judgment to other persons that "This one must make one lakh of rupees from that person." And next judgment, "This man must be hanged." Does it mean the high-court judge is partial? He's simply giving judgment on the merit of the particular case. So there is no argument that "Why God has created so many varieties?" God has not created. You have created. Man is the architect of his own fortune. Fortune and misfortune you have created. So we have to suffer or so-called enjoy. There is no enjoyment here. It is simply suffering. But because you are under māyā, you are thinking suffering as enjoying. Just like a hog is eating stool. Other man is becoming... "Very abominable!" Oh what nasty thing he is..." But he is enjoying. He is thinking, "I am enjoying the best food." I have seen in airplane. One Indian gentleman, he was eating the intestine of the hog. So it was horrible for me, but he was eating very nice. So in this way the world is going on. "One man's food is another man's poison." So similarly, we are creating our next birth according to our desire. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). According to the infection of the different modes of material nature, we are creating good or bad body next life. The laws of nature is unknown to the foolish society.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Two days I had been in Mahabaleshwar, and our host was sleeping. (laughter) So I asked them, "Let us go immediately, otherwise we'll be infected." (laughter) So I left that place.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Maybe elephantitis.

Dr. Patel: Because the elephantitis, that's very common in the (indistinct). The mosquitoes are infected by elephantitis and they infect you. These mosquitoes are (indistinct) ...carry malaria carry this elephantitis. All these villages on the coastline, right from Ratnagiri up to Dvārakā, whole coast is infected by elephantitis. Everywhere you go you see big, big leg. In fact it is right from Bhuvaneśvara. On Bhuvaneśvara sea water these mosquitoes breed even in (indistinct). I made a special study of malaria, so I have studied all the types of mosquito, and that particular mosquito on that coast is called (indistinct). Because they came right from Sundar Island. (swamps)

Prabhupāda: Sundar island, Sundarban, Bengal.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The rascal says. A rascal says. It is not private. No private-public. It is laws of nature. You have to abide by that. The nature's law is "Now winter. You have to cover your body." There is no second law. So that is wanting, that we are... The present defect is that every one of us under the laws of God or nature, whatever you say. And still, we are declaring independence. This is the defect. Prakrti-stho 'pi.

puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho 'hi
bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya
sad-asad janma-yoniṣu
(BG 13.22)

Sad-asad-janma. Why? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. He's associating with the different modes of material of nature, infecting, and that is the cause one is born as demigod, one is born as dog, one is born as tree, one is born as human being. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Therefore we should associate with sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu, asate vilāsa, te karaṇe lāgi more, karma bandha phāṇsa. Because we have given up sat-saṅga-oṁ tat sat-Kṛṣṇa's saṅga, we are entangled in this asat-saṅga. And that is the cause of my karma-bandha phāṇsa. Sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu, asate vilāsa: "I wanted to enjoy with asat." Asato mā sad gamaya. Therefore I'm entangled.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Stop breathing means you don't spend. You have got a limited breathing period. By yogic process, you stop breathing, but you remain. That is mystic yoga. So similarly, you can simply increase your life by not using the breathing process. That is praṇāyāma. That is praṇāyāma. So... But you cannot exceed the limit. That is not possible. (Hindi) You don't keep hygienic life. (Hindi) You infect. That is your fault. (Hindi) To live ordinarily healthy life, that is... But if you transgress the hygienic principle, if you transgress the law of nature, you must suffer. Similarly, we are suffering in this material world—the covering is there—because we wanted to transgress the laws of God. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare. When we forget our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is the original master, and I am the servant," as soon as you forget this relationship, this is contamination, immediately. Everyone is trying to become another Kṛṣṇa. This is struggle. Here in this material world you'll find everyone is trying to become very, very big-big leader, big politician, big businessman, big, big, big. But he is not big. That is the disease. He is not big, and he's trying to become big.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: Then you will be relieved—by force." But he can protest, "Oh, you are clearing out my pusses!" "Pusses, what for you...? Pusses is not to be maintained. It has to be cleared out." This is para upakāra, doing good to others. And the patient will protest, "Oh, this rascal doctor, killing me, killing me, killing me!" "Yes, I am not killing you. I am saving you. You go on accusing me any way, but I must do my duty." This is the point. "Yes, we are washing brain," exactly like the experienced surgeon. He doesn't make any compromise. "Oh, you are suffering from the boil. There is pus. All right, you don't like operation?" Will that cure? ""No, fool! Come one. Bring knife. Cut it. Press. Now?" "Oh, I am so relieved! You are God. You are God." Then he will see. That is our duty: purge out all pusses accumulated due to infection, material infection. This is our duty. We cannot make any compromise. When the pusses are to be purged out, we cannot take your advice, that "Just blow some air from the mouth or some fan. It will be cured." No, it will not be. Take surgical operation. That is only way. Purge out. "No this! No this! No this! No meat-eating, no..." This is purging.
Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: If you need... If you have one infection in America, you know what you need—some penicillin, something to kill the infection. But the doctor will have to make all sorts of experiments to tell you what you already know.

Prabhupāda: "You first of all give so much blood. So much give me, and then..."

Gurukṛpā: Yes. And charge you fifty dollars.

Prabhupāda: Regular business. It is very difficult to consult with a doctor.

Gurukṛpā: And I saw the dentist. He tried to ruin one of my tooth so he could do work on that also and make more money. He tried to damage the teeth.

Prabhupāda: Money is the only aim. And they will talk all nonsense and make experiment, especially in the Western countries. Here also they have got now money-making sight. Lawyers also. Any... I have seen in our relatives, big, big rich men. The brothers may sit down and make some... My father-in-law did that. They sat down, and they were two brothers, and divided his property and got two days. But those who are rascals, they go to lawyer and continually meeting—his man, his man. In this way the whole property is sold. And they get out with this. That's all. I have seen so many cases. Then the property division means there is nothing to divide. Everything is sold, and the money was taken by the lawyers as their fees. I have seen so many cases. These real estate men? Real estate? They also. So many times they complicated our men.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why one is taking birth as a brāhmaṇa and why one is taking birth as a dog? So kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). If you become, associate with sattva-guṇa, then you are elevated more and more. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. You remain where you are if you associate rajo-guṇa. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And if you practice jaghanya, most abominable practices of tamo-guṇa, then go down. You cannot check it. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Guṇaiḥ again. Just like if you have infected some disease, cholera, you must suffer from cholera. If you have infected disease of smallpox, then you must suffer from smallpox. You cannot check it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. You should be very cautious so that you may not be affected by this infectious disease. Therefore you require sadācāra. Always remain neat and clean and always associate with sādhus and Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be protected. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). This is the process. Otherwise kāraṇaṁ guṇa... As you infect with jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthāḥ (BG 14.18), then you'll... There are many place... Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ (SB 5.5.2). If you want to be liberated, then mahat-sevā—you have to associate with mahat, mahātmā, not durātmā. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. If we become infected with yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam, Then focus will be... Therefore these centers are being opened: "Come here. Live with Vaiṣṇavas. We are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even if you do not like, by their association you'll do it. Then you'll be purified."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just like there is infection, and if you take a vaccine, then it will not infect, the contaminous disease. Similarly, if you take to bhakti-yoga, then you'll not be infected by these three guṇas. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya. You'll remain immune. This bhakti-yoga... Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena (BG 14.26). Not vyabhicāreṇa, avyabhicāreṇa. Then you'll remain above the qualities transcendental. This is bhakti-yoga. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). If you cannot do anything, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours. Bas. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma... (BG 14.26). You remain on the brahma stage. (long pause-kīrtana in background)

Satsvarūpa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Prasāda. Give them prasāda.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Read Bhagavad-gītā. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Here is authentic answer. Why he's giving that...? That means you are not in proper leadership. If you... Just explain that if you infect cholera disease, germ, you must suffer. That is nature's law. Similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Now you can change the kāraṇa, the cause. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). And you can neutralize it. Māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ. Quote this. Everything is there in Bhagavad-gītā.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati (BG 18.54). Everything is there.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are already dogs; otherwise how he is becoming dog? They have been already described. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. They are already... Therefore they are going to change it, the body. They are already cats and dogs. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). A doggish mentality, you will get a dog's body, infections. It is clear, nature's law.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This vision no one else has except... I mean no one else has it, Śrīla Prabhupāda except for you. It is there in the śāstra, but I don't think anyone else has realized it. There may be many other Vaiṣṇava ācāryas or something in India, but they are not... By the fact that they are not preaching, it means they have not realized it.

Prabhupāda: No, they realized. They have no opportunity. They wanted to preach.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And if you kill, then wholesale will be killed. No... There will be no candidate for learning. You have to kill everyone. That will be at the end, Kalki-avatāra, simply killing, bas, finish. They'll have no capacity to understand. Nowadays there are... They cannot understand this philosophy. But there are some, they are trying to understand. But at the end of Kali-yuga there will be no brain to understand or to hear all these things. Mleccha. That is mleccha. Mleccha means they are so unclean, unstandardized, they have no brain. That is Europe, America. That's ... Mleccha. Kill animals. Eat. Mleccha, they are, according to Vedic, untouchable. If you touch, then you infect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but you did not become infected by our association.

Prabhupāda: But the danger is there. Danger is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore traditionally the sādhus will not go outside India. They won't cross the ocean.

Prabhupāda: And I took the risk. I told you the story, that I was keeping my foodstuff in the same Frigidaire that dog's flesh is here. What can I do? Circumstance. Therefore this rascal, Ginsberg, he used to say, "Swamiji, you are very conservative." And "You do not know what is conservative. I'm so lenient. You do not know what is the meaning of conservative," I used to reply him. If I was conservative, then for a single moment I could not stay here. Immediately I would have gone.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And then by flit(?) he will be killed. "No, no, sir, I am your countryman, I am countryman. I belong to the same nation." "Who cares for you, flies, cockroaches? Kill them. American flies, who cares for you?" "I was a staunch nationalist. Now I have become fly. Don't kill me." "Who cares for you?" Will they excuse American flies, American cockroaches? But dehāntara-prāpti. That you cannot avoid. Then where is your nationalism? Nation means one who has taken birth in that land. The cockroach, the flies, the animals, they also born in that land, but who cares for them? Dehāntara-prāpti. So you are great nationalist. But the body is changed. How can you save yourself, not become a cockroach? Because the body is changing. That is in other's hand, Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By superior supervision. It is not your choice. Here is dehāntara-prāpti. "Make me president body." "No, no, that is not your choice. You have to accept what I will give you. It will be just by your work, infection of the modes of nature."

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Cow protection protects us from so many infectious disease.

Dr. Sharma: Even the cows, they have habit to take the leaves along the banks of the river. The iodine content of the grass is so high. It has got iodine in that. So if you smear cow dung on the floor... It is said it is an obnoxious thing. There is tincture of iodine sold in the shops (indistinct). It is most unfortunate that we do not appreciate, the nature itself is giving us aids.

Prabhupāda: We take it seriously because Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is our authority. He says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya: "You must give protection to the cows." This is authority.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gṛhastha should not be dependent on Society. At the same time, he should not be independent of the Society. (laughs) This is the position. Because Society cannot take charge of a family. There will be so many number of families. How it is possible? At the same time, if they remain independently of the Society, without touch, then the karmīs' poison will infect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like the solution is to get apartments near the temple, get room near the temple.

Prabhupāda: Why not in the temple? Why? If he pays, what is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, in a place like Bombay where we have so many buildings, in the temple. But sometimes... Just like in America, if there's only one building with only...

Prabhupāda: No, America also... Just like Los Angeles we have got.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the problem. You are all become stationed to me.(?) Who will work?

Jayādvaita: At least this disease of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very infectious. Everyone catches it from you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They can't find any medicine to stop it. It just keeps going on more and more.

Page Title:Infection (Conversations)
Compiler:Rishab, Mayapur
Created:18 of May, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=130, Let=0
No. of Quotes:130