Prabhupāda: Now, the next question is that the Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "Because I am now covered in ignorance, therefore I see individuals." Yes.
Woman: Is that a main claim?(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes. My... This individual experience that you are Mr. Such and Such, you are Mr. Such and Such, you are Mrs. Such and Such, this individual experience, is due to my ignorance. And generally, they give the example of a disease. I think it is called, medical terms, myopia. Myopia means they see this moon in two. The eyes become so defective that whenever they see things, they see two.
Woman: No, that's astigmatism.
Prabhupāda: Uh, yes.
Woman: Myopia is when you have to see very near.
Prabhupāda: I said... It may not be myopia, but some disease.
Woman: Astigmatism. Some sees, if somebody sees...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes...
Woman: Astigmatism. In two, if somebody sees. Astigmatism.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman: In two. Is it a sickness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is sickness.
Woman: In the eyes.
Prabhupāda: Because, because the thing is one, but due to my disease of the eye, I see one thing, two. That is a disease. There is a disease like that. So...
Woman: Usually people who drink.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, that's an abnormal condition. In abnormal condition sometimes we can see one thing into two, divided into two. So now that ignorance, you cannot apply to Kṛṣṇa because He's all-perfect. And if He is not all-perfect, then there is no value of His instruction. A man with defect in knowledge cannot impart instructions. His instructions... Therefore the whole Vedic process is paramparā system. Paramparā system means that I cannot deviate. I cannot make any interpretation. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). You'll find in the Fourth Chapter. Now we are reading Second Chapter. You'll find, as we have explained in the introduction of Bhagavad-gītā, that because... Just like I am speaking to you. I am an imperfect person. I cannot give you any knowledge. I cannot manufacture any knowledge. If I do that, then I shall deceive you. I can simply present before you the original knowledge. I can explain it in an understandable way but not deviating from the original text. Now, here it is clearly stated by the Supreme Personality of Godhead that na tu eva ahaṁ jātu (BG 2.12). Aham. Aham means Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself. Now sometimes we make some grammatical jugglery of words, but I cannot understand. Now, aham, "myself," when I speak aham, or "myself," is applicable to me. When you speak, the aham is applicable to you. But that does not mean because there is a common understanding of myself between you and me, therefore I... Now that I and you become one. When you speak, you say, "I speak." When I say, I say, "I speak." That does not mean this "I" and that "I" becomes one. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa says like that, na tu aham.
Woman: Ah, yes.
Prabhupāda: He. That means this aham, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. And na tvam: "And you." That means Arjuna. And na ime janādhipāḥ: "Neither all these kings." He's dividing the whole audience into three: "Myself, yourself and they." And again He confirms it, sarve: "all." He never identifies into one. So this is the version of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Now, if I say that our interpretation of aham, I, myself, yourself, and he, or she, different vision, this is due to our ignorance. You can say. Because I am ignorant, it may be my mistake, that I see differently from you. But Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, cannot see like that. He is above all this ignorance because He's all-perfect. And we have already defined that the Supreme Lord is full of knowledge. So... He's full of knowledge, supreme knowledge. Now, if the Supreme Personality, with full knowledge... He cannot commit any mistake.
Woman: No.
Prabhupāda: How can He commit any mistake? Then there is no meaning of full knowledge. If you are in full knowledge, then how you can commit mistake? So this ignorance of duality, because they say that "We see two because it is due to our ignorance. All, everything is one," but here you cannot apply that ignorance to Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, His instruction of whole Bhagavad-gītā, which is so importantly taken by all authorities, all scholars, then it is at once rejected. If it is supposed that Śrī Kṛṣṇa was also to commit mistake, or He was in imperfect knowledge, then whole thing becomes rejected. So it is not, not like that.
So Śrī Kṛṣṇa, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He's in full knowledge, and therefore as He says that "Either Myself or yourself or all these persons, kings and soldiers, who are assembled here, they're all individuals. In the past they were individuals, in the present we are individuals, and in the future they will continue to be individuals." Now, one thing... Suppose another argument is that due to ignorance... Just like an animal. It thinks that there is water in the desert, on the reflec...
Woman: What?
Prabhupāda: Water in the desert. Now, in the desert, due to sun's reflection... You might have experienced in the street also, during blazing sun. It appears like water. Now, that animal, because it has no knowledge, it is, I mean to say, flying towards water in the desert. Although there is no water. But a sane man like you and me, or a human being, he knows that there is no water. There is no water. So this direction, that there is water, this mistake is committed by the animal because he, it has no sufficient knowledge. But one, a human being who has got sufficient knowledge, he does not commit that mistake. Yes.
Woman: Does an animal make that mistake? I thought the animals...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Woman: ...wouldn't, would, uh...
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is a...
Woman: ...not see the water that our eyes tell us that there is a mirage in the desert.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I mean to say, any sane man who has got the knowledge that "This is only reflection of the sun; it is not water," he will never go there. He knows that it is useless to search water in the desert. Similarly, if Śrī Kṛṣṇa is in full knowledge, He cannot say that in future also we shall all remain individuals. He says that in the future also we shall continue to be individuals. Now, He cannot give us misdirection. Suppose we, in the future we shall not remain. After liberation, we shall not become, remain, individuals. Then that sort of misguidance cannot be given by Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Just like a sane man cannot direct you that "Just go there. There is water in the desert." A man with perfect knowledge cannot give you that direction. A animal may go there. That is a different thing. Similarly, when Śrī Kṛṣṇa says that "In future also, we, all these, yourself, Myself, and all these, they will keep their individuality," so that is not a misdirection. You want to say anything?
Woman: Sure. But is that what the Bhagavad-gītā's saying on...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman: ...I mean (being?) a lot to it? (?)
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is, it is... I'll, I'll, I'll give you, I'll give you the exact meaning. Na tu eva aham: "Neither Myself." Aham means "myself." Jātu. Jātu means "at any time." At any time means present, past, future. Jātu kadācit. Kadācit means "at any time." Nāsam: "Not that we did not exist." So na tvam. So this aham, "myself and yourself," na ime, "neither these janādhipāḥ, all these kings." Now, this plural: "Myself," first person, "yourself," second person, "and these janādhipāḥ," third person. Na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ: "It is not that in future also we shall not exist like this, Myself, yourself and all these." You see? Sarve. Now, here it is called sarve. They never becomes one. Sarve means all, plural number. Here means janādhipāḥ. "As they are now plural numbers, Myself, yourself, and they, similarly, in future also, we shall remain like that. We shall remain like that." Sarve vayam ataḥ param: "After this." This is the clear version of number—you can note down—number twelve verse of the Second Verse, er, Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā.