Prabhupāda: Yes, I wanted to start this movement from India. I even requested Mahatma Gandhi that "Mahatmajī, you have got some respect all over the world, and you are known as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. Now you have got your sva-rājya—the Britishers have gone away—let us preach Bhagavad-gītā." But I don't think I got any reply from him. Of course he was very busy man. My letter might have reached him or not reached him. The secretaries might have rejected. I think received from secretary, like that. But then after few days he was killed. So I was trying for this purpose in India. I approached many friends that, "You have got four sons. Give me one son so that I can train him how to become real preacher of Bhagavad-gītā, how one can understand." Because Bhagavad-gītā is being misinterpreted. So I wanted to preach it as it is. That was my mission. So practically nobody joined me. Then I decided to come here. And these boys cooperated. So I have got great desire to . . . because India is by nature Kṛṣṇa conscious, but our modern leaders keeping them suppressed. That is the difficulty. There are so many other difficulties, and leaders are misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā. To tell you frankly, there are so many commentaries on Bhagavad-gītā by Dr. Radhakrishnan, by Gandhi, by Tilak, by Aurobindo, or many others. But nobody has said that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Do you admit it or not? Has anybody said that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. You are searching after God. Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Worship Him"? Nobody has stated. Am I right or not?
Interviewer: I am not that . . . I have not read all the . . . I have read Gandhijī's, I have read a little of. Radhakrishna's, I have.
Prabhupāda: Gandhijī has preached or Dr. Radhakrishnan has written, but who has preached that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is to be worshiped? Just like we are preaching. Here in America, you have seen our temple?
Interviewer: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How they are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. So Bhagavad-gītā, main purpose is that. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So who has preached this? So, although they came—so many svāmīs, yogīs and politicians, they came—but they talked, what can I say, all irrelevant. Nobody spoke that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You worship Him." Nobody has said. This is the first time, I am saying. Do you agree or not?
Interviewer: Yes. Do you think that this is because of the Western influence under which they have gone and you are more . . .?
Prabhupāda: No, no, they wanted to compromise with the Westerners. They did not come to teach, but they wanted to be victimized by the Western people. They had no strength to save themselves. They have no strength. They have no determination. Hodgepodge, that's all. Therefore it was not successful. Not a single man became Kṛṣṇa conscious. Even nowadays. So Vivekananda is famous in India that, "He preached in America, all Americans have become Vedāntists," something like that. Now, practically . . . you have gone in Vṛndāvana?
Interviewer: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Recently?
Interviewer: No, not recently.
Prabhupāda: You have seen our temple?
Interviewer: No, I have not.
Prabhupāda: So we have got our temple, that is considered the best temple in Vṛndāvana. (aside) You can show the pictures. So thousands and thousands of Americans went to Vṛndāvana for our temple and other temples. But there is another . . . Vivekananda, Ramakrishna āśrama, nobody went there. Not a single. So what preaching they have done, from practical point of view? So many men went to our temple. They had no inquiry even that, "We have heard that there is a Ramakrishna Mission temple here. Where it is?" It is not . . . Vṛndāvana is not a very big city. Everyone knows. Nobody, not a single person went there. And they visited other temples. So what kind of preaching? Hmm? What do you think?
Interviewer: It seems to me that what you are saying is that you cannot have a religion . . . you cannot expect a religion to survive or prosper when the culture which is supposed to serve it is its opposite, is its antithesis. And that's why your movement, you are trying to suggest that the only way you can attain mokṣa, or liberation, or whatever, is through a particular kind of culture that you are propagating.
Prabhupāda: It is not . . . it is the culture. It is the culture. Because you are suffering under material conditions and you are struggling for existence, that means you are struggling to get liberty. So this is the liberty. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Mām upetya, (aside) find out this.
Hari-śauri: Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9)?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hari-śauri:
- janma karma ca me divyam
- evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti so 'rjuna
- (BG 4.9)
Prabhupāda: Read it.
Hari-śauri: "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna."
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is liberty. But they do not know it. They simply make a show that they are scholar of Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know. They are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know how to get liberty. Neither they are interested. They want to stay here, and subjected to the natural . . . material condition, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). There is another verse, mām aprāpya? Aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, in the Ninth Chapter, I think. Aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu . . . aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyā . . . aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā . . . (BG 9.3).
Hari-śauri: Aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā. Nine, three. Aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa . . .
Prabhupāda: . . . parantapa aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani: "The teachings that I am giving, if one is not faithful to accept it, the result will be aprāpya mām, he'll never get Me, and he'll remain in the cycle of birth and death." They do not know it, what is cycle of birth and death, how one can get out of it. Going on. Just like the flies with great force falls in the fire. They are very busy. What is that busy-ness? Falling in the fire. So this is going on. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to save the people who go down by the force, enforced by the laws of material nature in the cycle of birth and death. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13): "You have to accept another body." But suppose you have got now Indian body; next birth if you get a dog's body, then what is your success? But nature will work. You do not know what is the nature's law. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Neither you can check nature's law. So what is the value of your so-called activities, jumping? There's no value.