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Grown up (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Then your attachment for Kṛṣṇa increases because you transfer the attachment. Just like a child. A child is attached to play. But when he grows up, his attachment is transferred to study. That does not mean he gives up the attachment for playing, that attachment is lost. No. Attachment must be there, but that is transferred or purified. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means purified consciousness, real consciousness. And the next stage, after being freed from misgivings—attachment for the real identity, ruci. Then āsakti, greater attachment. Then an ecstasy. That means I am coming nearer to God. Because I am God's... In the beginning I told you that we have forgotten our relationship with God. So when we are out of misgivings, we come to the platform of increasing attachment for God. So this attachment, when it is perfectional stage, it is called love of God. Love is here also.

Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: She likes this... (microphone noise) But also marriage problem, one must have a choice. So if we force something, that is not (chuckling) good. At least, in your country it is not... Of course, in your country, the husband...the boys and girls are, I mean to say, not major, whatever the parents force, that is another thing. When the boys and girls are grown up, it is not possible. Just like in India, there was svayaṁvara. Svayaṁvara means the girl will select her own bridegroom. That was allowed to princess. Princess, highly qualified princess. So the father would make a challenge, that "This is the condition. One who can fulfill this condition, I'll offer my daughter to him." So this was generally amongst the princes. So there was great fight. (laughs) Just like Arjuna. Arjuna married Draupadī. You know the condition? Her father made condition: there was a fish on the ceiling and one wheel was circling. So one has to pierce the eyes of the fish through the hole of the circle. And he cannot see directly. He has to see down.

Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: Whatever our parents selected, we accepted. I did not like my wife, (laughs) but gradually, I was accustomed. I was obliged to like. That's all. (laughs) That is the Indian system. You like or not like, you have to accept it. That's all. The psychology is that the girls, generally, before attaining puberty if she loves one boy, she cannot forget him. That is her psychology. And a boy also, when he is grown up, the first girl he makes choice, he also cannot forget. Therefore, by some way or other they are mixed up. So in your country the situation is different. You see? The boys and girls are freely mixing, and from school, college, they are freely mixing, free sex without any restriction. So we cannot enforce, at least, at the present moment. If some boy and some girl agree, then I bless him. That's all. Now another thing, that girls should not be taken as inferior. You see? Sometimes... Of course, sometimes scripture we say that "Woman is the cause of bondage."

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: Do you have children?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, I have got grown-up boys.

Journalist: You just left them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got my wife, my grandchildren, everyone, but I have no connection with them. They are doing their own way. My wife is entrusted to the elderly boys. Yes.

Journalist: Well, is that a...? I mean I find that sort of difficult to assimilate, to give up your family and just sort of say, "See you later."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the Vedic regulation. Everyone should give up family connection at a certain age, after the age of 50. One should not remain in family life. That is Vedic culture. Not that up to death, one is in family-wise, no. That is not good.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: First of all, a boy is trained as brahmacārī, spiritual life. Then he is advised not to enter family life. But if he is unable to control his sex life, he is allowed, "All right. You get yourself married." Then he remains in family life. So he marries at the age of 24 or 25. 25 years, let him enjoy sex life. In the meantime, he gets some elderly children. So at the age of 50, the husband and wife goes away from the home and they travel in all places of pilgrimage just to detach them from family affection. In this way, when the man is a little more advanced, he asks his wife that "You go and take care of the family and your sons, grown-up, they'll take care of you. Let me take sannyāsa." So he becomes alone and preaches the knowledge which he has acquired. This is Vedic civilization. Not that a man should remain in family life from birth to death. No. In Buddhism also there is compulsory regulative principle that a Buddhist must become a sannyāsī at least for ten years. Yes. Because the whole idea is how to attain spiritual perfection.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupada Listening to Recording of His Own Room Conversation with Students -- April 25, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, Second Chapter—those who have got Bhagavad-gītā, they will see to it—that "Within this body there is soul, and the body is changing every moment." That is a fact. We say, "The child is growing." Growing or changing-practically the same thing. Actually, it is changing because the former body is no longer to be found. It has accepted, the soul has accepted, another body. This is going on from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, then old age. So, just like I am old man. I can remember my childhood body, my babyhood body, my boyhood body, my youth-hood body. So the body is no longer, but I am there. I am thinking that "I did do like this. I was playing like this with my body." But that body is gone, but still I am there. Therefore it is naturally surmised that when this body will not be existent, I will be existent. I will accept another body. This is very logical conclusion. As I am changing so many bodies, still I am there. I can understand that I changed my body. I was so little. Now I have grown up. I am old. But I am there. Similarly, it is concluded, when this body will not be there, but I will accept another body.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya (CC Adi 5.142). (baby making noises) (aside:) He will disturb. Īśvara. Īśvara means master or the controller. Actually only Kṛṣṇa is master. Even Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, or incarnation of Viṣṇu, all of them are, in one sense, even Rādhārāṇī, all are servants. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya. So in that sense, in this New Vrindaban the master is Kṛṣṇa, and we are all servants. But there are division of duties of the servants, and they should discharge. Just like in our propagation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are certain duties entrusted to certain devotee, and if he faithfully carries out that duty, that is his perfection. The spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa, and the duty allotted by him to a certain person, that should be his execution of spiritual duties. So this New Vrindaban, master is Kṛṣṇa. Now we should specifically divide duties amongst ourselves and discharge such duties faithfully. Then, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, as you are growing up to now, the system and the prescription is very nicely being conducted. And this will help us more and more progress. So in this meeting I think we should allot different kinds of duties to different persons and execute. So you say something. (break) ...temple. I don't think it can take more than two hours.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was not on that day, but when He was little grown up. As soon as He would cry, so the neighboring friends of His mother, all young girls would come and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and He'll stop. Sometimes they would tease Him so that He may cry, and they'll see that He's crying, and they'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He'll stop. Again tease. (laughs) So that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was preaching Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting by His childhood activities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are some of the things that He did when He was a little boy? Some tricks or things?

Prabhupāda: Sometimes He would play with snakes. One day, when He was crawling in the courtyard... Indian house... As, just like here is compound outside. In Indian house there is courtyard inside. So He was crawling in the yard, and a snake came, a snake. And He began to play with the snake. The snake will do like this and crawling, and He would see it, He would strike. In this way the snake was playing and the mother became so much afraid. They cannot touch. If the snake bites... So they simply saw that the child is playing with the snake, and after some time the snake went away. And they took up the child,

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to East Bengal for teaching, and actually, the girl felt too much separation, and she died. And figuratively it is used that the separation took the form of a serpent and bitten her and she died. And when He came back His mother requested that "You should marry for the second time," and He agreed. And so next marriage was with Viṣṇupriyā. In the first marriage, Lakṣmīpriyā, He used to see her when she was bathing in the Ganges ghāṭa, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu desired that "I shall marry this girl." So His father sent one matchmaker. So when the matchmaker came to His mother that "Such and such brāhmaṇa..." I forget his name, but the name is there in the Caitanya-Bhāgavata. "He desires that his daughter should be married with your son." And Śacīdevī said, "Oh, my son is not yet grown up. He's just a student. How He can be married?" So she practically denied. And the matchmaker was going back, not very satisfied. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was entering home.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī should be always preaching. Parivrājakācārya. Four stages of sannyāsa: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājaka, and paramahaṁsa. In the beginning... Because according to Vedic civilization everyone has to take sannyāsa at a certain age. So as a matter of routine if he takes sannyāsa... Just like this old man I was asking that "Now you have children grown up, why don't you take sannyāsa?" But he is hesitating. Nobody likes, because sannyāsa life is difficult. So first there is kuṭīcaka means he gives up the connection of the family life, takes sannyāsa officially, but he is not accustomed to maintain himself independently; therefore, he goes out of the village and makes a cottage and lives there. And the foodstuff, the home supply, that is called kuṭīca. Kuṭī means cottage. Then when he is little practiced, then he says family members that "Don't bring foodstuffs. I shall go to every village man and ask something for my food. I shall depend on them, not on you." That is called bahūdaka. Bahū means many. Not accepting food from one place but from many. Then when he is prac...

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: (indistinct) on each side of them and in the middle, on the other side, before and after...

Dr. Weir: This is the..., you see, unconsciously you grow up with all these sort of prejudices, which are necessary. You've got to have some sort of time scale, you've got to have some sort of measuring scale and therefore you tend to look up and therefore you think highly of more important (indistinct), you talk about high position, you don't think of chaps sitting on the fence...

Śyāmasundara: Inherently you'll find the rose is better than the daisy.

Dr. Weir: No. Some people might prefer the daisy.

Śyāmasundara: But the qualities are there, inherent in the rose, which are preferable to those of the daisy.

Dr. Weir: Why? Tell me why. I mean, you haven't given me any reason for saying it is better.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He supplies everything. Everyone, actually He's supplying. He's supplying food to everyone. So He's father. So why should you not pray, "Father, give me this"? Just like in Christian Bible there is, "Father, give us our daily bread." That is good, they are accepting the Supreme Father. But grown-up children, they should not ask from the father, but they should be prepared to serve the father. That is bhakti.

Bob: My questions you solve so nicely. (Mild laughter)

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Bob: So, should I ask you another question now?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Adopted daughter, niece, we have practically seen. I knew one man, Gupta. Guru dāsa met him in Delhi. So he was old man, about four years younger than me, very rich man. So I used to visit sometimes his house. He was friendly. So one day I saw one young girl. So I enquired, "Who is this young girl?" "No, she is my adopted daughter. I have no..." He had no daughters, all sons, grown up. "So I have no daughter, so I have adopted her as my daughter." I thought, "That's all right." Some day after, one day I went there. I saw that his wife was not there. So his wife has left home on some complaint. And then I understood that that man was implicated with that daughter. So the wife, under protest, has left. There are many rascals who open girls' schools with the contract with the head mistress that she will supply young girls. Convent school. This is going on. So all these greatness are terminating in sex life and they are making arrangement, plan, and he says there is no plan. Even for his ordinary living he is making plan, and he says there is no plan.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like children, they do not know what is government. They are satisfied with their eating, sleeping, playing, that's all. They have no other concern. But when one is grown up, he knows what is government. He has to abide by the state laws. Now you are grown up, if you violate the law "Keep to the right," you'll be criminal. But a child, if he violates the law, animal violates the law, he has no... But if a adult person violates the law, he'll be criminal. You cannot say, "I'm free." No. Law will not excuse. But if a children commits something... Suppose you, if you take something from my table, it is for you criminal. But if a child takes something from my table, it is not criminal. In your country especially, if you enter my house or room without permission, that is criminal. Is it not? Trespass.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, if a man wants to become animal, he becomes worse than animal. A tiger, a tiger eats meat and he has got equipments in his body, what is called, nails, teeth, immediately pounce upon any animal and kills and eats. But a man cannot do that, but his teeth is different, he has no nails; therefore he has to kill animal in different way, by slaughterhouse. So he is worse than animal. You kill one animal for your eating purpose, that is one thing, but if you keep slaughterhouse for business, then you are more (indistinct). Therefore for a human being to try to become animal is worse than the animals, because... Just like you are now grown up. If you imitate that "I want to become child, so I enter anyone's house," the law will not allow you. And if you say that "My philosophy is to become a child; therefore I enter this man's house," the law will say, "All right, first of all you'll be punished." (laughter) You cannot say that. Because you are grown up you cannot act as a child. Similarly, because you are human being, if you act as an animal you'll be responsible for your acts. And you'll be punished if you do something wrong. You cannot say, "No, I have made my philosophy to become a child." That may be your personal philosophy, but law will not allow you. Ignorance is no excuse. (long pause) It has become a philosophy now to become like animals.

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No. It's not to be... Life is divided into four parts: brahmacārī, student, gṛhastha, householder, vānaprastha, retired life and sannyāsa. Everyone should follow this principle. First of all, as brahmacārī student he should learn sufficiently what is the value of life. Then, when he's a householder, he should live properly with husband, wife and children-properly. Then, after retired life, giving the responsibility of household life to grown-up children, he should take lessons from saintly persons. (indistinct) Then at the end he should take sannyāsa. Whatever knowledge he has gathered he must distribute by traveling from one place to another. This is Vedic civilization. Everyone should come out. Not that they should remain at home and drink and sleep for the whole life. This is Vedic civilization.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only duplicate. You cannot even understand properly. Do you... To understand the Vedic philosophy, you have to tax your brain. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for Bhagavad-gītā. It is accepted as a great book of philosophy all over the world. And... Now wherefrom this brain came out. Apart from accepting Kṛṣṇa as God, take it, the language, take the language, the philosophy, the thoughts. How great they are. Now how can you say that people had no higher brain. Within hundred years everything has grown up. All these rascals. What is the Darwin's age?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Darwin says the, he says in his history of the origin, he cannot trace completely.

Prabhupāda: Whatever he has traced, what is the history of that tracing history? Tracing age?

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the first lesson. You do not understand? You are a child, now you're a grown up boy. Where is your childhood? Where is that body? Ha? The dead body does not exist but you are existing. That means you're eternal. Body has changed, but you have not changed. Circumstances have changed, but you have not changed. This is the proof of (indistinct). What do you want more? You may remember that I did yesterday these things, today I remember yesterday's activities, but your body of yesterday is not this body. Do you admit or not? As a scientist, the body has changed already. He cannot say that 1973, twelfth May yesterday. He cannot say. It is already changed. But you remember everything of yesterday. That is eternity. The body has changed, but you remember everything. Therefore you are eternal, body's not eternal. This is the proof. Simple proof, even a child can understand. But they'll not understand. That is the difficulty.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: I think what you are saying, in a sense, is that generally the people are innocent. They grow up... And the goals of life are forced upon them, sort of, and actually that is not, the real goal is still missing.

Malcolm: They would say, yes, that there is... The number is too many.

Śyāmasundara: The number of goals?

Malcolm: No, the number of people to support a system of return.

Śyāmasundara: Return to the real goal.

Malcolm: To the real goal. They feel oppressed into supporting the number system because it's...

Śyāmasundara: Due to a larger number of people, is it possible to return all these people to the real goal?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As there is medicine for certain disease, if, in that particular disease, the prescribed medicine is given, then the disease will be cured. Is it not? Medical science, they have discovered medicine for a certain type of disease. So if the diseased man takes that medicine, particular, then he'll be cured. Similarly, if people take what is the actual goal of life by philosophy and logic, then their goal of life will be one. He must agree to take it just like the diseased man must agree to take the medicine. Then he's cured.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Why not.

Mother: Are they edu...? Do they go to schools, your children?

Prabhupāda: They have now grown up. My grandsons are going to school.

Mother: Well, I didn't mean yours in particular. I'm talking now of all of you. I'm not talking of you particularly. I'm talking of all of you. All your children, the married devotees...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, our children, we have got our own school. All these boys, they have got their children. They are gṛhasthas, householders. So we have got our nice school at Dallas, very big school.

Mother: But you have got a school, a Kṛṣṇa school?

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...it will be difficult for ordinary persons. Still, as far as possible, I have tried to explain for understanding of the ordinary people. By general reading, it is not difficult.

David Lawrence:. This is the sort of problem one comes across, whether in fact... You see, having grown up in what was really a very liberal, critical attitude...

Prabhupāda: Therefore, this portion of Kṛṣṇa's life is depicted on the Tenth Canto. Nine Cantos are devoted to understand Kṛṣṇa. So without understanding Kṛṣṇa if one tries to read the life and pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, it may be misleading.

David Lawrence: Yes, yes. I think somewhere it says...

Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata begins, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), what is the original source of creation. Not abruptly Kṛṣṇa. Then after developing all such knowledge one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. But in the spiritual world there are activities like that. The material world is only perverted reflection of these activities of the spiritual world. Perverted reflections. It is reflection, but perverted. Therefore, it is difficult. Everything is there. Basic principle that Kṛṣṇa loved the gopīs... Gopīs were young girls, Kṛṣṇa was young boy, But the same love between young boy and girl here is lust. Therefore, it is perverted. The reflection is there, but it is not love, it is lust.

Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you have to accept... Just like your son, your son. Tomorrow he'll be grown up like you, but at the present moment, his mental condition, your mental condition, there are different.

Guest (1): He's in evolution.

Prabhupāda: Yes, evolution. That, I understand. But these two things will continue.

Guest (1): As long as he's evolving and I'm evolving separately...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Guest (1): As individual...

Prabhupāda: No...,

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Never go in vain. This is her... She had executed devotional service in her past life. Therefore from the very beginning of her life, she's in association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very beginning. This is the chance. Now it is the duty of the father and mother, and when she grows up it is her duty to finish this business, go to back to home. This is chance. So where is the loss? Even she failed last life, then where is the loss? She's getting another chance, whereas the ordinary karmīs, they'll not get that chance. That is explained. Read it.

Śrutakīrti: One who has forsaken his material occupation to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything.

Prabhupāda: That is the translation. Purport?

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you are eternal. Because you were a child and now you are grown up, but you know that you were a child. Therefore you are eternal. You were a child, but you have no that child's body. Now you have got a different body. So although you have got different body, you know that you had a body like a child. Therefore body has changed. You have not changed. That is eternity.

Girirāja: And nobody wants to die.

Prabhupāda: Nobody wants to die.

Girirāja: If the soul is not eternal, where has that desire...

Prabhupāda: No. This is eternity. This is practical eternity. You have changed so many times your body, but you are the same person. Therefore you are eternal, in spite of changing body. This is simple argument.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: How would it differ from gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Gurukula is only for the small children. Preliminary, primary. And when the children are grown up, they should be sent to the varṇāśrama school or college for further developed training.

Hṛdayānanda: They should... Should they be taught also some... Should there also be teaching in some particular skill or varṇa? Such as say...

Prabhupāda: No.

Hṛdayānanda: Say, for example, someone was a, a kṣatriya by inclination, or a...?

Prabhupāda: No, inclination can be changed also. If one has got little ad... But we should take little advantage of the inclination.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Should our children who are at gurukula, when they grow up, should they go to that varṇāśrama college, or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. They should go.

Hṛdayānanda: We'll start it right away.

Prabhupāda: Varṇāśrama college means for grown-up students. College means for grown-up students.

Hṛdayānanda: Is there a minimum age for beginning such a college?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ten to twelve years.

Hṛdayānanda: They can start at ten to twelve?

Prabhupāda: Yes. From five to ten years, gurukula. And after ten years, they should go to the varṇāśrama college.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is in the heart of a dog also. Then dog is also Kṛṣṇa. So why one should go to the temple? He can worship his dog at home. If this logic is all right. (break) ...the verdict of the Rāmakrishna mission, "You can worship whatever you like. That is God." And therefore they have manufactured this word, daridra-nārāyaṇa. (break) Jāta-karma-saṁskāra, saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskāra, reformatory method, begins before the birth. Before the birth, when the father and mother have sex, that is called garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. That is also another ceremony. It is not a hidden fact. So saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ. Otherwise it is birth like cats and dogs. That is Vedic civlization, saṁskāra before the birth and immediately after the birth, then one after another. This is called jata-karma; then nāma-karma; then when he is grown boy, upanayana-saṁskāra, dīkṣā-saṁskāra; then when he is grown up and marriage... Marriage is also another saṁskāra. In this way there are daśa-vidha-saṁskāra. So unless one goes through all the saṁskāras, he is not accepted as higher caste.

Room Conversation -- April 26, 1974, Tirupati:

Prabhupāda: Well, suitable cannot be. There is no suitable.

Indian man: Difficult to find.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly, as the girl is grown up, any boy.

Indian man: We used to marry at the age of ten, eleven. That is... Those days have been forty years back.

Prabhupāda: I was also married. My wife was eleven years old.

Indian man: My wife was eleven when she was married. I was only sixteen when I was married. Only a difference of four or five years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And before that, I heard my father-in-law, he was eleven years old, and my mother-in-law was seven years old. My eldest sister was born at nine years old.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He's asking, "Well, that's all right. But this love that we have for God, only man can give it. An animal can't love God. A tree can't love God."

Prabhupāda: But you can love animal. You are not animal. Animal... Just like we are discussing about theosophy because we are grown up, and the child, he cannot understand. That does not mean we shall be unkind to the children. He may be ignorant, the animal may be ignorant, but I am not ignorant. How can I kill the animal?

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: He's asking, "How do we see ourselves and how is it that we intentionally distinguish ourselves by dressing differently, by having a different presentation than the rest of society."

Guru-gaurāṅga: Given the fact that all others, they are loving God too, the same principle, Christianity...

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to.... By nature's law. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Because mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, (indistinct). There are three qualities—sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa and mixed up. At first mixing it becomes nine and again mixing up it becomes 81. Each quality there are thousands and thousands of varieties and that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of life. So, it is by the God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and award the quality. It is not man-made law. That there may some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, whether small pox or whatever or (indistinct), you must develop. Therefore desireless. Desireless means material desires. Material desires begins with this designation. Just like the child, he has got a childish body and he plays like a child. The same child when he'll get a youthful body (indistinct). The soul is the same but on account of the type of the body, he is acting. This is material. Small child in the childhood talks like nonsense, people enjoy it. But the same child when he is grown up, if he talks like a nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why? The body has changed, the circumstances have changed.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So his wife. Ādau mātā, guru patnī... In general the understanding is, except your wife all woman is your mother. That is the instruction of Canakya Paṇḍita. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: "All women should be treated as mother." Para-dāreṣu. Para-dāra means others' wife. So every woman was married. It is compulsory. This is the Vedic system, that every woman must be married. It is the duty of the father to see the daughter is married, must be married. It is called kanyā-dāya. You cannot evade this responsibility. You must. The father's duty is, as soon as the girl is grown-up, immediately some boy must be found out and handed over: "My dear boy, I give you this girl in charity. You take care and give her protection." This is marriage. And he agrees, "Yes, I take charge of this girl." In our society, we get married. Your government has approved our society that we can...

Madhudviṣa: The Australian government in the latest Gazette has recognized the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement as a bona fide religion eligible to perform legal marriages.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: It is not jumping. It is regular process.

Guest (4): One should go through all the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like student. Then he becomes a family man when he's grown up. Then he becomes again a sannyāsī. So it is a process. It is not jumping. One after another.

Guest (4): Yes, but would you allow one of the devotees to, if he wants to, observe celibacy and then...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is brahmacārī.

Guest (4): And after that...

Prabhupāda: After that, he should continue the life of celibacy. But if he is unable, then he's allowed to marry.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Young children should be educated from the very beginning about God consciousness or the science of God. We had the opportunity in our childhood. My father taught. And then, when I was grown up, my spiritual master taught. So for that reason we have got some sense. Spiritual education should be given...

kaumāra ācaret prājño
dharmān bhāgavatān iha
durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
tad apy adhruvam arthadam
(SB 7.6.1)

This is statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was a five-years-old boy and a devotee. So he was trying to preach amongst his classfellows. The classfellows said, "Why you are bothering about spiritual consciousness, God consciousness, now? We are young men. Let us play." He said, "No. The spiritual life should begin kaumāra, just at the beginning of five years." Why? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is very rarely obtained, and we do not know when we shall die. So before our next death we must be spiritually equipped. That is the business of human life." There is no guarantee when death will come. A child may also die tomorrow.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to accept similar body, by nature's way. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Because the mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, he got this body. There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Now you mix up. By first mixing it becomes nine, and again mixing up, it becomes eighty-one. And each quality, there are thousands and thousands of variety. And that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of forms of life. So it is very... God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and awards the body accordingly. It is not man-made law, that there may be some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, either smallpox or cholera or this or that, you must develop that disease. Therefore we should be desireless. Desireless means material desire. That material desire begins with the designation. That... The child, he has got a childish body, and he plays like a child. The same child, when he will get a youthful body, he will do like that. The soul is the same. But on account of different type of body he is acting differently. That is practical. A small child, in the childhood he will talk like nonsense. People will enjoy it. But the same child, when he is grown up and he talks like nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why?

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That control does not mean "The government is in control, therefore government should kill only." These... All rascals, simply rascals. Control, that's all right. You are grown-up boys, human beings, so you should control. You should maintain them, and take service from them, not that you shall kill them. They interpret in that "Because under my control, therefore I shall kill"?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see how foolish they are.

Jayatīrtha: The children are under the control of the parents, but the parents don't kill the children.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: But I'm less interested in what...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all think that you have changed your body. The other man says, "Oh, you have grown up?" Or... Generally they take it as grown up. But the actual position is the body has changed.

Justin Murphy: But they're the same bones. It's the same skin. My face looks just about the same.

Prabhupāda: Not it is same. Medically, it is not the same.

Justin Murphy: The functions are different, but it's the same heart that's beating, the same veins...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, it is not the same body. Just like in your childhood, when you were a boy, you had no sex impulse. Now you have got sex impulse. The body of a child, the body of a boy, they cannot understand sex life because the body is different. And now, because you have got different body, you can feel what is sex life. So it is imperceptibly changing. Therefore we think that it is growing. But it is changing. It is changing swiftly. Just like in the cinema spool. The picture is changing, but because it is changing so swiftly, you are seeing that one man is moving. That is the fact.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So immediately to solve all the problems like this is to start an institution to train four classes of men. Begin it. There is no training, how you can expect if you allow a child to smoke from the very beginning and to commit all kinds of sinful activities, how you can expect a nice gentleman when he is grown up? It is not possible. It is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But somebody may not be induced to come and join. But if you train him from the very beginning, then it is possible. Just like we have got our training school, Gurukula, in Dallas, Texas. So from the very beginning, three years, four years, five years old, children they are being trained up. It is not that cent percent men will be trained up spiritually. But even a small percentage ideal men there are in the society, at least people will think, "Oh, here is ideal." But there is no such facility. We are training, sometimes people laugh, "What is this nonsense?" They criticize.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They are taking. Pañca-draviḍa Mahārāja is there. He is a sannyāsī. That is all right. You don't change your mind. You are already trained up about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so you try to become an ideal householder in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we are not rejecting householder. We are accepting everyone. Gṛhe vā thāke hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke. Anyone, either he remains as a sannyāsī in the forest or he remains a gṛhastha at home, if he is cultivating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, then he is all right. That is the verdict. So now you are living as gṛhastha. Live as an ideal gṛhastha, don't change your mind. Be fixed up. They are all gṛhasthas, all these Pañca-tattva, you see? Advaita Prabhu was a gṛhastha. He did not take sannyāsa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also was married. Nityānanda Prabhu was gṛhastha. They were all gṛhasthas, but ideal gṛhastha. So you become an ideal gṛhastha. That also wanted.

Gṛhastha is also called āśrama, gṛhastha-āśrama. As sannyāsa is called āśrama, similarly gṛhastha is called āśrama. Anywhere cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is going on, that is āśrama. Now it depends on my personal convenience either I remain as gṛhastha or I be a sannyāsī. But when you have accepted the gṛhastha life, so that's all right. Remain at least for fifty years. Then you can give up when your children are grown up. You just give them education, settle them, then you can leave home. That is gṛhastha-āśrama.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1975, Honolulu:

Bali-mardana: Even every child knows that "When I grow up I will have a different body,"...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: ...but they do not know.

Prabhupāda: These people, they do not understand. What kind of civilized men they are? Less than a child, and they are proud of their science. (break)

Devotee: They're trying to catch some fish.

Paramahaṁsa: What are they doing?

Devotee: They're fishing.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: Crabs. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...fisherman. They keep this side open and this side covered. Front side covered, back side open. (end)

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not talking of foster; we are talking of real father. How do you know your real father?

Dr. Crossley: You've grown up with him. You've known him since you were a little child. It's part of your consciousness.

Prabhupāda: So if my consciousness is not right, then I may select a wrong father.

Dr. Crossley: Well, just because you know he's your father, there's still more to know about him. There's more and more to understand.

Prabhupāda: It is... Very simple answer is: when the mother certifies, "He is your father," that's all. You don't have to make research. That is futile. By research, you cannot understand who is your real father. You can understand your real father only by the certificate of your mother. That's all. Therefore our Vedic mantra says that religion and God cannot be manufactured by speculation. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkena yojayet. Just like this example, father. Father was existing before my birth. So after my birth, with limited knowledge I make research who is my father—you will never find your father. But if you take the certificate of your mother, that is there.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: That is also being finished. This is the advancement of civilization. Even mother is also not reliable, what to speak of others. A small child sleeps very sound on the lap of the mother because it thinks, "Now I am safe." And the mother is killing child. This is the advancement of civilization. (break) ...has been many cases, a polluted woman has killed his child on account of paramour. In India there have been many cases, killed a grown up child. In recently one of our Godbrother's wife. You know that?

Brahmānanda: She killed her son.

Prabhupāda: Yes. On account of paramour.

Harikeśa: On account of what?

Prabhupāda: Paramour.

Harikeśa: Paramour?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recently, within ten years. And he committed suicide, this my God brother. Everyone is, every father is affectionate to the son, and when he saw, "This is my wife, and she has killed my son." And the son saw the paramours were coming, and he says, "Who are these men, coming?" You see? This question is also dangerous.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Guest (Indian man): Swamiji, I'll ask one last question. What advice do you give to a man of family? I am taking my case, I have four children, and they are, their ages, between six and thirteen. I have to see that they grow up nice, I have to see that they educate themself so that they are as according to you... I don't know. I don't call myself first-class, second-class, third-class. As you said, there are no first-class men, second-class men. But then how, apart from making them first class that they should follow the religious...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, if you become first-class, and they will follow you. You remain last-class, and how you can train your first-class? (laughter) In the śāstra it is said, "Unless you can create first-class man, don't beget children." Pitā na sa syāj janani na sa syād gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father to raise his children first-class. Otherwise he should not become a father. That is contraceptive. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī. Formerly they were Vasus and they were asked by Brahmā to create progeny. So the husband and wife, they practiced austerities very severely. So then God appeared before them: "What do you want?" And they said that "We can enter into family life provided You become our son." No, "If we get a son like you." Then God said, "Where is second person like Me?

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Problem is already there and if they think it is not problem, then what can be said? By nature's way, if the husband takes care of the wife and children, this problem is solved immediately. But the man takes advantage. He goes away after making the woman pregnant. And the woman is embarrassed and the government is embarrassed.

Harikeśa: And the child grows up to be a criminal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hippies. That is another problem. So they are not far-seeing. The immediate benefit they want. What will be the effect? That is animal civilization. Animal cannot see what will be the future. Therefore we have to take advice from Kṛṣṇa. One who knows past, present, and future. Everything is there. We are spreading this knowledge, that "Take your council from Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy." That is our program.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we speak these things on television and the newspapers and people become angry, if all the people become angry like she does, is it still good propaganda for us?

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. But the ideal is different. Ideal is that man must be first-class and he must be responsible to take care of the woman, and she should be given all protection, all necessities. That is the duty of man. Just like father takes the charge of his daughter, similarly, husband should take charge of the woman. And similarly, elderly sons also took charge of the woman. The father never exploits the daughter. He gives all protection. That is the duty of the husband also. When she is grown up, she cannot remain under the protection of father. She is given, therefore, to a suitable boy to take charge. But the charge is the same, to give protection, all comforts. And because there is no first-class man to take charge of the woman, they are declaring independence. All the men are doing that. They keep girlfriend, make her pregnant, and go away, goes away.

Walk Around Farm -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Nityānanda: Well, when they grow up we will train them as oxen.

Prabhupāda: No, what the oxen will do?

Nityānanda: Plow the fields.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. Transport, plowing fields. That is wanted. And unless our men are trained up, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will think, "What is the use of taking care of the plows (cows)? Better go to the city, earn money and eat them." Which one? Huh? That? We shall get on?

Brahmānanda: Yes. (end)

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was therefore called king. But he was a vaiśya. He engaged his land for agriculture and cow keeping. And Kṛṣṇa took charge of the cows, the calves, although still calf, He, (indistinct) This is the system. He was going with the calves whole day, playing with the boys and taking care of the cows, in the evening come back. Mother then washes and bathes and gives nice food. And immediately goes to sleep. And Kṛṣṇa is clever. At night He goes to the gopīs. (laughter) Then Mother Yaśodā did not know, when she thought, "My good son is sleeping." And the gopīs also would come at a place and they'll dance. This is called life, childhood life. And when He was grown up, then He was brought to, I mean to say, Mathurā and He fought with His maternal uncle, killed him, and then His father Vasudeva, took care, sent Him to, what is that? Sāndīpani Muni. He was educated. He was learning every subject every day. Then He was taken to Dvārakā, married so many queens, and became king. In the Kṛṣṇa's life, He's always busy.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: What about some of the other schools that have grown up, people like Ouspensky and Gurdjieff and people who've brought a message similar to yours to the West in the past?

Prabhupāda: What we have to study particularly whether it is standard. Otherwise they may speak so many things, but if they do not know what is the standard... Just like medical science or any science, that is one. It cannot be different because it is spoken by different men. That is not one. That is not science. "Two plus two equal to four"—this is a science that is true everywhere, not that because it is spoken by somebody else it becomes "two plus two equal to five" or "three." No. That is...

Faill: No. Some other people, do you feel, possibly have had the truth as well, have they?

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to say.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if one cannot distinguish between the car and the driver of the car, then he remains just like a child. A child may think that the car is running automatically, but that is foolishness. There is a driver. The child may not know, but when the child is grown-up, educated, still he does not know, then what is the meaning of his education?

Prof. Olivier: Now, this is the whole range of education in, well, as far as I am aware, in the whole of the Western world, and it covers primary and secondary and tertiary education. There is no place for an in-depth study of...well, of the soul and of the...

Prabhupāda: I talked with one big professor in Moscow. Perhaps you may know him. His name is Professor Kotovsky. He is the leader of Indology in Moscow. So I had a talk with him for about an hour. That talk was published in some paper. He says, "Swamiji, after this body is annihilated, everything is finished." So I was surprised. And he is holding a very responsible post, Indology, and known to be very good scholar. He was good scholar, but he also does not know.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: That's all. In our day, the marriage was performed when the girl is ten years, twelve years, nine years. Twelve years is very late marriage. My second sister, she became twelve years old. So my mother became so disturbed that "This girl is not being married. Shall I commit suicide?" Yes. You see? My eldest sister, she was nine years old, older than me, and she was married before my birth. And my mother-in-law was married at the age of seven years, and my father-in-law was eleven years. I was married... My wife was eleven years. So in this age there is no question of love. It is not that the husband and wife lives together, no. Unless the girl is grown up, she is not going to the husband. She remains with the father and mother. Sometimes they meet, and the wife is taught, giving some sweetmeat to the husband-official. Official. The parents of the girl: "Just go up to your husband and offer this." So she comes as obedient servant. But gradually they get the connection. In this way the love develops, and when they are fifteen, sixteen years old, they are allowed to live together. Because both of them have already developed that "She is my wife," "He is my husband," psychologically. And there was no question of divorce. The love is so strong, they cannot dream even that "I have to leave my wife," "I have to leave my husband." They cannot dream it.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That means he has no time. Then why he says that "I am in charge." He is not in charge.

Jayapatāka: He is trying to... (break)

Prabhupāda: After all, they are boys. They are not grown up. (break) ...your Calcutta program?

Jayapatāka: They're going tomorrow morning. (break)

Bhavānanda: ...maṭha, and then we went to Mādhava Mahārāja's maṭha. So Acyutānanda gave a very strong lecture at Mādhava Mahārāja's maṭha that in order to make devotees who are chanting the holy name, it takes more than any material calculation or business sense, that you have be infused with the potency of the Supreme Lord. All of the sannyāsīs and brahmacārīs were standing out on the balcony and hearing Acyutānanda glorify Your Divine Grace. All the devotees went in.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Pañca-draviḍa: Well the evolution happens by chance.

Prabhupāda: No.

Trivikrama: Just like he said. All the trees are growing up, not one going this way, not by chance one is...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Nothing by chance. It is a wrong theory.

Satsvarūpa: If you throw dice, they may come up in one...

Prabhupāda: Then dice becomes cause? Chance?

Satsvarūpa: Well, what causes it to be seven or eleven or another number?

Pañca-draviḍa: Chance.

Prabhupāda: Not chance. You do not know. Therefore you say.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Forgetful does not mean that they... Suppose this child, he's hurt, and when he'll be grown up he may forget, but that means... That does not mean that he was not hurt.

Devotee (3): Hm.

Devotee (2): (break) ...for devotees, then they have no right to claim that they are philosophers or scientists.

Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇāḥ. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no knowledge. He's a rascal, immediately. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the definition given by... If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately miscreant, rascal, and lowest of the mankind. (break) ...may say that he has passed M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C.(?) and he's a philosopher. But we..., our test is whether he's God conscious. If not, he's a rascal. That's all. Immediately.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: He cannot be free.

Hari-śauri: Well, like Freud said, that a child may be under the protection of the father, but eventually the child has to grow up and go out and face the harsh, cruel world.

Prabhupāda: That is his folly. If he remains obedient to the father, then he'll be happy.

Hari-śauri: If you're already in a good situation, why create a bad one?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You be obedient and enjoy father's property. What is the wrong?

Hari-śauri: They want to enjoy for themselves.

Prabhupāda: You cannot enjoy. What you cannot enjoy if there is no water, if there is no sunshine and there is no trees, there is no.... Then how you can enjoy? This is given by father. You are already enjoying the father's property. Why you are so much ungrateful?

Hari-śauri: They haven't yet understood that the supply will be restricted if they don't behave.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Grown-up children will take care, but the beginning is that without your parents' care you could not succeed. You would have died.

Hari-śauri: This is Freud's argument, that at a certain stage he can leave that care and venture out for himself.

Prabhupāda: He can leave the father's care. But how can he deny father?

Devotee (5): He denies the father. He denies the God the father. He says that's a wish fantasy for ......

Prabhupāda: Fantasy? Father is not fantasy. He is fact. You are grown up. You can leave the protection of the father. But how can you deny father? Then you are a rascal. It is not good to live independent of father. If the rich, opulent, very kind, very merciful, why shall I leave? A father is generally, even though he's personally a bad man, he's still, he's kind, merciful to the son. That he is, actually. A rogue, he loves—just like Ajāmila. He was a rogue, but he was taking care of the youngest child. This is nature, we study that even the father is a rogue, he's kind to his children. So practically he does all nonsense things, but giving protection to the family.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, just like child is taken care of. Child does not know what he is doing, but the father, mother, taking care of.

Hari-śauri: He's taken through stages.

Prabhupāda: So mother nature takes care to bring him again to the grown-up youthful life. Now you make your decision. So, if you don't make your decision, the knowledge is there, the books are there, if you don't make your decision, still you want to remain as cats and dogs, again begin.

Devotee: Do most humans go down to the animal species again after human life?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do most human beings fall down into the animal species?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. He can become a stool worm. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Comparatively, you are less crazy. That is another thing.

Hari-śauri: "My idea may not be perfect, but it's better than yours," that's their idea.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is not your secure position. One child is older than the, another child. That does not mean he is a grown-up.

Rāmeśvara: (break) ...means to know who your father is.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was once told by some devotees that you had said in some previous age of Kali, the dinosaurs, gigantic animals, were on the earth.

Prabhupāda: I said?

Rāmeśvara: They say that you said. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not same level, because you are understanding the spirit through the body. So body is changing. Just like the soul, when he's in the boy's body, it is talking so many nonsense things. But you don't take it seriously. But when you are grown up, if you talk such nonsense things, then you'll be taken as a nonsense, because the body has changed.

Richard: Okay, what I was leading up to was, her brain is dead, she has no...

Prabhupāda: Not dead, it is not working.

Richard: It's not working, okay. It's not working. She's getting no sensory input. She's not aware of the physical surroundings, and yet you maintain that her soul is still alive and still very active. Now would her state, her physical state, enhance the soul's activity or detract from...?

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Material. When you were on the lap of your mother the body was so small. Now you are a young girl and you are.... So where is that small body? That means you have changed bodies. But your mother knows that you are the same, "My child." Because you have grown up or you have changed your body, your mother will not cry "Where is my child?" She knows that "My child is there, but she has changed body." Why these people do not understand this plain truth? Suppose you have come in this dress; next moment you come in another dress. But if I know you I'll not mistake because you have changed your dress. Similarly, we are changing our dress from baby to child, child to boy, boy to young man, young man to middle-aged man, constantly changing, every moment. Medical science also says. The blood corpuscles are changed every moment. So we are changing our body every moment. But still we cannot understand that on account of change of body, the living force within the body does not change. Is there any difficulty to understand?

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Their father, mother drinking, and the child is given some soft drinking. And learning how to drink when he'll grow up.

Hari-śauri: This vicar, he used to sit, and he used to sip small glass of clear liquid. So everyone thought he was drinking water, but then once they checked, and it was pure vodka.

Prabhupāda: While speaking lie "I was drinking water." (japa) (break—converses in Hindi)

Indian man: Prabhupāda, I'm trying to get one radio station you know, so far the, so that we make a Hare Kṛṣṇa program. So the radio is the big media for...

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere this world is like that. Even the father will give trouble, Prahlāda Mahārāja, what to speak of others. Demon father is giving trouble to a Vaiṣṇava son. And not grown-up son, five years old, innocent, but he's giving trouble.

Devotee (3): When we had sickness the state police became very interested in us, and today a state policeman stopped me and asked if you were here. So he seems to be paying special attention that you are here now. He's very interested.

Prabhupāda: However demon may be, they can appreciate that these are ideal characters.

Devotee (4): All these state police, they purchase Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (4): All these state police, they purchased Bhagavad-gītā. (sound of motorcycle comes very close, idles) (end)

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa Himself did it. He was king's son, Nanda Mahārāja. In the childhood, He was taking care of the calves, and when He was grown up, little, He was taking care of the cows. Kṛṣṇa personally showed it. His father could have avoided, "No, no, You don't go. The servants will go." No. "You also go." Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, both. Balarāma has got the plow, tilling ground, and Kṛṣṇa has got the flute to enchant the cows. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. They were not sitting idly, although Nanda Mahārāja could keep Them without any work. No. They worked. From the beginning of childhood. They would come in the evening and mother would take care of bathing Them, changing dress, and then giving nice food, and after taking food They would go to rest. Whole day They worked. Kṛṣṇa never taught that you sit idly. No. Personally, He did not do so, neither He taught anyone. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very strong. But if we also become equally strong in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no... That... Just like in the beginning, a seed sown, it requires very careful attention. Then it grows up. And when one grows a tree, then that is all right. But so long it is not a tree—it is a plant—one has to take... And the watering is śravaṇa-kīrtana. Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. That is required. Mālī hañā sei bīja kare āropaṇa, śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. I think, nineteenth chapter of Madhya-līlā.

Hari-śauri: It's a very good description how the bhakti tree grows, the creeper of bhakti.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana? Nineteenth chapter, Madhya-līlā. Mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa (CC Madhya 19.152), śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana: "When a person receives the seed of devotional service, he should take care of it by becoming a gardener and sowing the seed in his heart. If he waters the seed gradually by the process of śravaṇa and kīrtana, hearing and chanting, the seed will begin to sprout."

Prabhupāda: Is there any purport?

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no education, fools. They're childish. A child is playing, he's enjoying, but he does not know that he has to take education, he has to grow up, he'll become a young man. Sometimes, if he's not educated, he'll suffer. He doesn't know. He's playing. That's all. The father says "My dear child, you read." "No, I like playing." Similarly, they are childish, foolish, without any responsibility. The animals are doing like that. Ṛṣabhadeva says "No, no, no. This life is not for this purpose." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Simply for sense gratification so much trouble, like hogs and dogs, this is not life. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvam. Just practice austerity to purify your existence. Your existence is not purified. You are put in a position. If you like, that's all right, but because you are not in a purified position, you'll be kicked out at any moment. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. You are very proud to have your position, but nature will kick you out at any moment, but you cannot do anything. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He's foolish. He's thinking "I have everything. I can remain in this presidential position as I like." That is not the position. That is foolishness, that is childish.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Oh, your father is also recluse.

Dr. Sharma: Recluse. And I must tell an incident which, although I was growing up with meditation, I find the bhakti-yoga, the chanting, really fulfilling and actually making the difference. Actually making the difference. In one case, it is abstract philosophy, which is the rāja-yoga, other yogas, philosophies, and this actually makes the person transformed. Another incident occurred yesterday, when I was meditating and I wanted to ask about five different ślokas of Gītā, out of which, surprisingly, you discussed four. (laughter) This was most astounding to me.

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: What is this picture?

Mr. Boyd: That's just down the street from Mr. Dubhai, that's a big tree, it's an Indian tree, I don't know what it is, it grows up and down both. It happened to be in his yard. (laughter) Another highlight of the day.

Hari-śauri: Banyan tree.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have banyan trees in America. In Florida.

Mr. Boyd: Oh, is that banyan tree? You see, they are not particular to this area.

Hari-śauri: Hawaii's full of them.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Why? Transmigration for everyone. The Darwin's theory, evolution, it is like that, transmigration. The living soul is changing bodies, that's a fact. We can experience in our own life. The child is changing body to boyhood. The boy is changing his body to youthhood. So therefore it's a fact. The living entity is there within the body, and the body is changed. This simple truth they cannot understand. When a child grows up to become a boy, so what is the change? The change is body. But everyone knows the same child has become boy. Is it not? What do you think?

Guest (2): Well, when you leave this planet you go to sleep.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is another thing. Studying, that a child is grown to become a boy, he has changed his body. Does it mean the living entity who was in the child's body is different from the living entity within the boy?

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You shall not expect anything in return. That is real love. Just like this mother is loving child, expecting anything—no, not expecting any return. But she still she gives service. So that is as a little sample of pure love. But here also some... When the child is grown up, if the child is not obedient, the mother practically withdraws love. But in the spiritual world, unconditionally love is there. As it is explained, āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām. Marma-hatām: (CC Antya 20.47) whatever you do, I don't mind that but still I love you. That is pure love.

Guest (1): As a mother loves the child in pure love, does that help her to also find the pure love in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Just like Mother Yaśodā is loving Kṛṣṇa. Nanda Mahārāja is loving Kṛṣṇa. That is pure love.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Devotee: Is Veda important for, like we have our children here. As we come to this movement we're like children, it's important how we are molded, we are molded into the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as for example a child, it's important how the mother molds her activities, the child's activities; mold the child's life so that nice child grows up, act towards Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (indistinct)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's asking a question, Śrīla Prabhupāda: isn't it important to mold the activities of ourselves and also the children in coming to this movement; to mold them that so that we can become Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is (why) our gurukula is there. How these children are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, (indistinct), how they are learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are doing the same thing, offering obeisances to the Deities, taking prasādam, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In the same way as his father is doing. So automatically he's being trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Good association, that is required. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. We are keeping this house for association of devotees so that automatically they become Kṛṣṇa conscious by association.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Guru says there are four principles to be followed, they should be taught in that way. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication. Guru says that you chant at least sixteen, that should be taught. Risen early, rise early in the morning, that should be taught. So whatever guru says, you have to teach them perfectly, from childhood; then there will be no deviation when they are grown-up.

Jyotirmāyī: We have them chant now down there. When they chant japa, they chant very enthusiastically. So the teacher himself chants...

Prabhupāda: No, no. According to age, according to... But this is the principle. Gurukula means to learn how to become obedient, self-controlled, and act on behalf of guru. This is Gurukula. Not to learn grammar very scholarly, grammarian. No, that is not Gurukula. There are many thousands scholars—who cares for them? Put in the life. That is important. Our movement has drawn the attention of the world on account of life and the knowledge. They are finding the knowledge in the book and they are finding the practical application in the life. That is the important thing. Books there are many, but the books as they are described, they are being followed. That is Gurukula.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Academic is ordinary, ABCD, that's all. Not very much. But these arts. They should learn how to cook nicely.

Jyotirmāyī: And what should the boys be taught from ten to sixteen?

Prabhupāda: The principle is same, that when they grow up they learn the śāstra. The more they read, the more they learn. Then they become preacher, teacher. The grown-up children, those who are fifteen, sixteen, they can teach five-, six-years-old.

Jyotirmāyī: Then they can take responsibility themselves.

Prabhupāda: In this way. Elderly student... That is the way of Indian teaching, that there is one teacher, and how he's managing hundreds? That means there are groups. One who is elderly student, he's taking some beginners: "Write a or A like this." That he can teach. What he has learned, he can teach. Similarly, next group, next group. So in this way, one teacher can manage hundreds of students of different categories. This is organization. Not that everything I have to do. I cannot teach anybody to do it. That is not intelligence. Intelligence is that employ others to help you.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Microbes?

Jñānagamya: Microbe, you know, like microscopic...

Prabhupāda: Why they can see only microbes? Not a fully grown up human being.

Jñānagamya: No, they are detecting through gas. They feed the microbes and then microbes give off evacuation...

Prabhupāda: How they can see? Suppose you see from a distant place, this planet. So how you can see within water? You can take photograph of the water, but how you can take photograph within the water? So what is the value of their taking photograph? Does the photograph takes the picture within the water?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, the body's destructible, but the spirit soul is not destructible. When you understand this point, then we understand what is spirit, and then spiritual culture begins. Without being convinced of this spirit soul, there is no question of spiritual culture. So the spirit soul is described as eternal. And the proof is given, eternity. Just like there are so many children. They'll grow up from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood. The body is changing. This is very practical. But the spirit soul is there, the same spirit soul which was within the womb of the mother in a small body. Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different. In this way, the body is being situated in different status, but we know that the proprietor of the body is the same. Is there any difficulty to understand? Anyone? The body is changing, that's a fact. You are young man. You'll have to become an old man like me. That means body will change. But so far you are concerned, you are the same. So, the body changes and the spirit soul remains the same. This is to be understood first of all.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The more you become purified, the more He reveals. Then He'll talk with you. So everything depends on the sincerity and seriousness. And if we take these ritualistic ceremonies, "Now I've gone to church or mosque, I have gone to temple, finish. Now let me do whatever I like." Then that is waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is simply waste of time. That is going on practically. He doesn't want to see "How much progress I have made in the matter of loving God." That he does not inquire. He takes God as order supplier. So "He's supplying my order, that's nice." He'll never learn to supply the order of God. Neither he will come any stage on that platform. The highest stage is to supply the order of God, not make God my order supplier. That is neophyte stage. Just like a small child, he simply wants to take supply from the father. But when the child is grown up and he's educated, he wants to see "How I can supply the order of parents." That is good stage. "My parents have taken so much pain to raise me, now I am educated, now they are old man..." Sentiment, I am speaking, this family sentiment.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Well, starting, just like when there is a seed sown, the starting is there. Now it grows a tree and there is fruit, there is flowers. The fruit is green now. When it is yellow mango and ripe, you can take. The beginning is when you sow the seed. Just like child. The father puts the seed within the womb of the mother. The body begins from that moment, grows and grows. When it is fully grown up it comes out and acts and then walks. So beginning is there. You can begin at any moment. But it is spiritual, it does not take so much time. You should remember spiritual. Just like speed, there are different kinds of speed. Mental speed and physical speed. Physical speed, you have got a very good nice airplane. Still, you have to take ten hours to reach London. And mental speed, you can immediately, within a second, go to London. And spiritual speed, still more. Kṛṣṇa says tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma mām eti (BG 4.9), as soon as you give up the body you immediately go to Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual speed. Immediately. Not that so many miles, oh, Kṛṣṇaloka is far, far above this material sky, then spiritual sky. No.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: Freud's idea, Freud admitted that, that we are all like children, but his philosophy was that the children have to grow up and go out and look after themselves. They can't remain dependent on the father forever, so they have to grow up and face the world.

Prabhupāda: That is another rascal. Because everyone, every living entity is dependent on the father's arrangement. God is the supreme father. He was a Christian or not, Freud? What he was?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He was mainly Freudian, he believed in himself.

Hari-śauri: He had his own philosophy.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He was Christian.

Prabhupāda: Christian. So why the Christian go and, go to the father, "Give us our daily bread"? That means that you are dependent on father. How you can say independent?

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: But that's the point, that we have to grow up and become dependent on our own work.

Prabhupāda: No, the Vedic injunction is eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. God means He's supplying the necessities of all his sons. That is God. And that is practical. You are dependent. The animals, they are dependent on grass. So wherefrom the grass is coming? Why that land is deserted and this land is green place. Can you change it? Why you don't change the desert to be green? So if you think that "I'm living on animal, I don't care for grass," but the animal depending on grass, and the grass is depending on God's mercy. So how you can say you are not dependent on God? You are dependent. But because you are a rascal fraud, you want to cheat and become a Freud, that's all. You are a great fraud, therefore you're talking like that. You are dependent on God in every step. You cannot be independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra, find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So how we are independent? Did Mr. Freud not die? When prakṛti, nature, kicked on his face, he immediately died. So how he's independent? These rascals have created all troubles. The so-called rascal philosophers, scientists, politicians, they have created all troubles. He's completely dependent on nature, on the laws of nature, and still he says, "I am independent. I have grown up." What you have grown up? You have grown up as a great fool, that's all. You have not grown up to be intelligent. You have grown up a great rascal, that's all. So refute them in this way, then you'll be preacher. So what is your argument about humanity?

Dayānanda: Well, if God is, as you say...

Prabhupāda: God is the father.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: So that is your interpretation. But we are trying to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our mission. That you produce food grains sufficiently and give protection to the cows so that food grains and milk will give you all benefits of economic question. You'll be satisfied. That's all. Not only that, I have practically seen that by God's arrangement there are so much land on this planet that you can produce ten times food stuff of the whole population. But they are not doing that. They are utilizing land... Just like in Africa I have seen, enough land is there, but what they are doing? They are keeping some cows and bulls, and when they are grown up... They are not given anything to eat. There is enough grass. And as soon as they are fatty, they are taken to the slaughterhouse. Not for their own eating, but exporting. This business is going on. Similar business is going on in Australia and New Zealand. Unnecessarily they are killing these cows, and this shortage of foodstuff and shortage of milk, this is not good arrangement. The recommended process in the Bhagavad-gītā, that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14).

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if he gets sense. Therefore the father comes, that "You give up all this nonsense. Come home."

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi...
(BG 18.66)

So if you surrender to God, if you have grown up from the childish nature to the real human nature, then surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or God. Then our life is perfect. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So why 125? Hundred rupees sufficient. If they are eating and we are giving shelter, then a hundred rupees sufficient.

Mahāṁśa: Hundred rupees... If they have a family, then his wife works also and his children who are grown up, they all work. Everyone works.

Prabhupāda: So they'll also work. So that you have to decide. Manage so that there is no misunderstanding. Simply management required. So you... The best thing is that you should sit together...

Tejas: Without fail we have to meet every evening. There shouldn't be any... Without fail every evening we should meet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be all right.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They'll come gradually, not immediately. Immediately, the psychology is, they have got attachment for their house. It may be worse house, but still, their attachment... That is natural. Long, long ago, when I was child practically, I went with my father in the village. So one man from the village was serving us. So my father: "This boy is nice. So why not take him to Calcutta?" So one day he was absent. It was dropping and... So I went in the interior of the village and I saw that his house was broken, there was no roof, and rain was falling and he was sitting, covering with a cloth. Then I told him that "Why not come with us in Calcutta? We shall give you nice place, nice food." So his answer was, nā bābu kanceri jabo nā (?): "Bābujī, I cannot go out of my home." That was his home. (laughter) This is my practical exp... He was sitting idly and it dropping and he could not come to serve. Still, that is his home, and he cannot leave home, that "Bābu kanceri jabo nā (?). That is psychology. It may be very worse condition; still, nobody wants to give up "home sweet home." That is natural psychology. So you have to manage. You see then why they, these Delhi passenger clerks... This morning I was telling that son was asking mother, "Who is this man?" His father, and he had never seen. "You have seen father." No, rather, he had no chance to see father because when the father comes back from the office it is night, ten o'clock or more than that. That time the son is sleeping, and again he has to go early in the morning. That time also, son is sleeping. So he did not know. So one Sunday, when he's grown up, he is asking his mother, "Who is this man?" "So this man..." Not only in India, in everywhere. I have seen in New York from the other island? What is that?

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: To give your fruits of, result of your fruitive activities, either you give to yourself or to your brothers and sisters, it is the same thing. Expanded. Just like a child eats, but when he is little grown up, he gives to his brother also. But the principle is the same. But when you give everything to God, that is liberated stage. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi dadāsi yat kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. "Whatever you do, you give me Me, whatever you eat, you give to Me." Yad aśnāsi dadāsi yat (BG 9.27). "You want to give in charity, you give to Me." (pause) We have to cross this hill?

Mr. Malhotra: Yes, we have to cross the hill. And then we again go on plain, then to cross another hill. But they are small, only three, four miles. We have already crossed one near Poona. That was also a small. This is called Kandalakat. That was called Kaprij. Some Kaprij Rishi I think. Ah, there's the name, Kaprij. (break)

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Kṛṣṇa said kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea. That only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). Kṛṣṇa said from boyhood to yauvanam, it is Hindu idea. The Arya-samaji friend told me, why you bring this Hindu idea? How much dull they are just imagine.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What about your other children and daughters?

Setterji: They were also with us.

Prabhupāda: But they were grown up.

Setterji: My father took my..., that child who was one year old.

Prabhupāda: Oh, father, mother, everyone, whole family. Then how trial they had.

Setterji: Six miles from there, and then we got a...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of these Punjabis had to go through this. During the Partition a lot of Punjabis had to face the fight and killing them off.

Prabhupāda: No, in Bengal also there was fight.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Vallabha-sampradāya.

Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇa, when He was young, grown-up, He became contaminated by the gopīs." Therefore they do not touch that Kṛṣṇa. When He was below that age, Bal Kṛṣṇa, He is innocent; He has no desire. They think this is contaminated Kṛṣṇa, and Bal Kṛṣṇa is uncontaminated.

Hari-śauri: Then they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as being the supreme enjoyer.

Girirāja: I met someone who said that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their theory: "Kṛṣṇa is contaminated. In His young age He's contaminated." Now then why... So-called advanced gentlemen say that "We don't want Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana. We want Kṛṣṇa of Kurukṣetra." They say that. They don't want Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana, dancing with the gopīs. Bankim Chandra Chatterjee, the great novelist, he had written on Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-charitra. He has made distinction, that "Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana is different from Kṛṣṇa of Kurukṣetra. Kṛṣṇa of Dvārakā is different." Like that.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We want to stop your nonsense. That is our mission. Those who are intelligent, they have taken. And you also take. It will take some time.

Rāmeśvara: Another big argument is regarding the children. They say that "You believe in free choice. So suppose the children grow up and they want to go to college. But you have not sent them to a public school. Therefore they are not eligible for going to college."

Prabhupāda: No, it is... They are saved from becoming like you or hippies. You'll become hippie after going to the college, so they are saved. You'll become naked and you'll have, like cats and dogs, sex on the street. But these children are saved.

Rāmeśvara: But what if they change later on in their life?

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He is also... He becomes recognized by the master. "Oh, he is trying for this, what I want." Naturally he becomes immediately recognized, although he has no qualification. If he tries. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become guru. No qualification required. Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said." Just see how simplified. Don't talk anything nonsense. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-bas. So who cannot do it? Anyone can do it, even a child. (laughs) Our Śyāmasundara's daughter. She was preaching, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" They said, "No I have got no..." "The Supreme Personality." This is preaching, simply if you say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, supreme controller. Just be obedient to Him." Where is the difficulty? Anyone can preach. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Three words: Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; surrender unto Him; and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Your life will be successful. What is the difficulty in preaching these three words? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Even a child like Sarasvatī, she can preach. Then what to speak of others? Those who are educated, grown-up, advanced, they can put the matter more nicely, more convincingly, more philosophically. That is another thing.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: There is a book, novel. The subject matter is that the man, when he goes out of home the child is sleeping. He has to rise four o'clock to prepare to take the six o'clock train. At that time his child is sleeping. And when he comes back at ten o'clock, the child is sleeping. So he does not know. So when he's grown up, on Sunday he's asking his mother, "Who is this man?" (laughs) This is the subject matter. They have written in a very... He is asking, "Who is this man?" When he was child, he did not see, neither inquired. Now, when he's grown up, on Sunday he sees that this man is very intimately talking with his mother. He... In this way...

Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Yes. They're all living in the sewers. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Pradyumna: If one goes in the sewers it's very dangerous, because crocodiles have grown up and they are in the sewers. So they get them small size and they keep them at home.

Prabhupāda: And when it is bigger it is thrown into commode?

Pradyumna: Thrown in the commode. And it goes to the sewer. And in the sewer in New York are big underground, big, big tunnels, and in there big, big crocodiles. The men who work in the sewers..., very dangerous for them because there're all big things there, crocodiles, snake, big cats.

Prabhupāda: Big cats?

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Local.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When these boys grow up a little they can be sent all over India.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. They can be trained up very nice, from the very beginning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that should be one of their programs here, saṅkīrtana parties with the young gurukula boys when they get to be twelve, thirteen.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, Vṛndāvana also can be done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are they making devotees there? Not so much.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana locally you cannot do. Mostly they rogues, the bābājīs. But there is good potential. (door opens and closes)

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Kāmo 'smi, that should be. That kāma is not that, that whenever they like, have sex and then go away. That is his kāma . Once you have sex life and the woman first of all debauches like... You have to make it public that "I am going to have garbhādhāna-saṁskāra." It is not a secret thing. It is a ceremony. And then, when she is pregnant, no more sex. No more sex means so long the child is there, ten months, and unless the child is grown up at least six months, no sex. That means once you have sex and then abstain for sixteen months. You know what is that dharma? So who is such a foolish man that for once having sex and then abstaining...? Therefore those who could not abstain, they used to keep many wives.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I mean, what is the purpose of... A man is foolish because he's attracted by sex life, but even in marriage...

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You say. We don't say. Because you cannot do, you say. We are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness for this purpose. We are not wasting time. And we are wasting time doing so? We are fools? That is the first instruction, that soul is immortal and unchanging. This very instruction they cannot understand. That is first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This simple... A child changes body. That is beginning. There is no... Same child. For a while it may be. Now he's grown up, young man. It is not change of body? Why these rascals cannot understand? What is that improvement of...? Therefore I have said, "You have no brain." It is a fact. My son, he's now young man. He took birth as a small child. Where is that body? Body has changed. Common thing. But these rascals, so fool, they cannot understand. I have become old man, but if some elderly persons, my guardians, were alive, he knew it, "He has become old man, but he was born a small child."

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You see everything. That means the body is finished. The body is finished. Childhood body is finished. Why do you say "He is my son"? Although this previous body is finished, he has got another body. You are confident. Otherwise how you say "Here is my son"? Body has changed, but your son is there. And your friends say, "Oh, he is your son? Oh, I saw him, little boy." And he could not identify. The father knows that he is the same. That is the difference. The other man, he could not believe that child has become so grown up, young man. Father knows it. "No, he's the same child." That is the difference. Unless one understands this very first instruction, eternity of life, so-called scientists, philosophers—all nonsense. All rascals. Animal. The animal even. The so-called scientists, they are no better than the animals. That's all. They cannot understand the very simple thing. Animals cannot know. Otherwise any sane man can understand. (break) As soon as he changes the cloth, it is... No, I can change this cloth.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is very natural. Just like in a child there is life. But it is not... Consciousness is not developed. That does not mean there is no life. That you can see, daily affair. The same child, when he's grown up or changed body, his activities will change. So where is the difference? Difference—when he was a childish body, the consciousness was not developed, and when he's transferred in another body, his consciousness will develop. This is the point. The ant, there is life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's life in any material...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we wanted to avoid that...

Prabhupāda: In the physical combination of atoms is combination of life also.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then he... Father-mother knows that he'll take care of his life automatically. And the boy and the girl are not allowed to mix with second girl, second boy. They are kept strictly. And when they're grown up, they're allowed to mix and the affection becomes firm. These are psychology. It is the psychology of woman that before puberty, if she has got a boy, she loves forever. She'll never be unchaste. So these marriage things are done very psychologically, scientifically, so that they may become happy, and then, in peaceful mind, combine together, good cooperation, they make progress, spiritual. This is the plan, varṇāśrama-dharma. Very scientific. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that." Whatever Kṛṣṇa shall give-perfect. Nobody cares. They are suffering.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He cannot express what is his inconvenience, and he's feeling one inconvenience, and the mother is trying to make him happy in other way. He's crying more, more, more, more. Where is happiness? Within the womb there was unhappiness, packed-up. When he comes down there is unhappiness. Then go to school, take education, appear for examination—that is unhappiness. Then grow up, then engage in some earning money—that is unhappiness. Then maintain your children, and that is unhappiness. Where is happiness, rascals? Rascal. Both are suffering.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of happiness.

Prabhupāda: This is simply anarthas, unnecessary creating unhappiness. Unnecessary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But with Kṛṣṇa, all those things you describe become happy.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Regarding that land, if they want to give it, they'll give it. It's not that somebody's going to come, like Mr. Arora, and by his coming suddenly they're going to give us the land. It's a big political matter. It's not friendship. We just have to become very much prepared now for such occurrences. Those gurukula boys, as they grow up, they should be trained to protect Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say kṣatriya. Some of our men should be trained as kṣatriya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is required.

Prabhupāda: Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—not that all one class. That is all wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people are inclined in that way. Guṇa-karma.

Prabhupāda: But everyone can be utilized if you organize it rightly. Three hundred dacoits there means government is very weak.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: Bhavānanda, when he... Just the day after he left here, there was a letter addressed to him. One gentleman wrote and said, "I am fifty years old and I am a M.A...." He was a professor of something. And he said, "Now my children are all grown up and I'm simply working. So I have heard that you are a pure Vaiṣṇava, so I want to take shelter and serve Kṛṣṇa at your āśrama." So although people are putting in paper so many things, but they are understanding that "No, he is a Vaiṣṇava." So people believe what they want to believe. So whatever... It's all that... The devotees are devotees. When we see people, they always say, (Bengali). They don't believe it that the report is true. Everyone doubts the reports. Only those that are of envious mind, they believe in, because they want to believe that.

Prabhupāda: What... (Bengali)

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The calves were grown up, and still, the mother wanted to feed them. So Balarāma was a little surprised. So He wanted to inquire what is the reason from Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna: Next verse?

Prabhupāda: It is explained?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The calves, they were beyond milking, so when the cows were so affectionate, He could not understand.

Prabhupāda: Viśvanātha explanation?

Pradyumna: Yes, a very big one, big explanation.

Page Title:Grown up (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:27 of Jun, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=99, Let=0
No. of Quotes:99