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Five thousand years (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. In this country, of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there was none. It is the first time. I have introduced. But in India it is very, very old, since the advent of Kṛṣṇa, and at least since last five thousand years. So Kṛṣṇa is very popular in India. In every home, Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, and there are many millions of temples of Kṛṣṇa in India and followers also. Followers means almost all Hindus are followers of Kṛṣṇa. They read this Bhagavad-gītā. So I have recently published Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It is published by Macmillan Company, and this book is very nicely being received. It is being reviewed by several papers. I have got many others books. They are being gradually introduced. Perhaps you have seen in our counter. We have got books, magazines, calendar, and other literatures. So it is a very scientific movement. It is not a sentiment, bogus hoax.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The basis of this teaching is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. I have already published my book, this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This book is not new. It is very old book, at least five thousand years old, and it is very widely read all over the world. In your country I have seen there are about more than twenty-five different editions, English. Similarly, there is in German language, in England, in Japan. Everywhere, all over the country this book is very widely known, Bhagavad-gītā. In other words, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The speaker of this book is Lord Kṛṣṇa, and the subject matter of this book is what is our relationship with God. Then, after understanding what is our relationship with God, we can work accordingly. Just like you are citizen of America, you have got a particular relationship with the state, and you are expected to work according to that relationship, and then you are good citizen, you are law-abiding citizen, and state gives your all protection, and you can improve to the highest perfectional stage.

Morning Walk -- March 20, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The symptoms of Kali-yuga have already begun, five thousand years past. And it will increase. (break) ...proud of advancing, but these things are important items of human civilization. They are decreasing. (break)

Mālatī: ...world now where people, they already, if they live to be twenty-five or thirty, like you explained last night, that was a ripe old age. There are tribes in the world where people live to the age of thirty, and that is considered a ripe age. That is considered old age. And they usually die about thirty or thirty-two.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Mālatī: In places in South America and Africa. So now, as the age of Kali progresses, will those people just eventually be diminished and wiped out because they already live so short?

Prabhupāda: Not wiped out. Nothing is wiped out. The species remain. Maybe somewhere, maybe somewhere else. Nothing is wiped out.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is a very popular and old literature, Vedic literature, known all over the world. But so far the history of this Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, there are difference of opinions, but factually even if we take it as it is, it is at least five thousand years old. And in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn that five thousand years ago it was spoken on the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. But before that, some millions of years ago, the same Bhagavad-gītā was spoken long, long ago. So actually the human effort cannot trace out the history of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but taking consideration of the present history, it is at least as old as five thousand years.

Interviewer: Govinda told me that it started five hundred years ago in Western Bengal. Could you elucidate on this please?

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: The original guru is Kṛṣṇa. And just like He taught first the Kṛṣṇa consciousness principle to Arjuna. And how Arjuna understood, that is also there. So anyone who follows the principle... Just like my great grandfather told something, "This is watch." Then my grandfather told, "This is watch." Then my father told, "This is watch." So I am also telling, "This is watch." So there is no difference of opinion between the old great grandfather and me because we are following the same principle. Similarly, whatever is spoken by Kṛṣṇa five thousand years or forty millions of years, it doesn't matter. If you are simply following the same principles, then you are spiritual master.

Interviewer: Then your teachers are called spiritual masters? You are the spiritual preceptor, your holiness. And do you use the word guru?

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to because at that time people were worth to see them. You see?

Journalist: When you say formerly, you mean thousands of years ago or...

Prabhupāda: No. At least five thousand years ago.

Journalist: At least, five thousand years ago the last time that any, that we would... Are they in human form?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So far we get information, sometimes great sacrifices were performed, and demigods from other planets, they were invited, and they used to come.

Journalist: Where...? Where...? And this is... Your authority for this statement is based in the Vedic literature?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Begin from this Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He introduced five hundred years ago, and it will continue now.

Hayagrīva: Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga has begun five thousand years ago.

Allen Ginsberg: Began five thousand years ago.

Kīrtanānanda: But this wave within Kali-yuga, in which Hare Kṛṣṇa increases and then diminishes, is about ten thousand years and that began five hundred years ago.

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga, the duration of life of Kali-yuga is 432,000's of years. Out of that, we have passed five thousand years. There is balance, 427,000's of years. Out of that, ten thousand years is nothing.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. So if anyone believes in the śāstras, they should take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is intelligence, to take advantage of authorized scriptures. You'll find in the Bhāgavata, There is a history of Candragupta, and "The Yavanas will become kings." That means English occupation, Mohammedan occupation. Everything is there. And Buddha's appearance, kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Kikaṭeṣu means in the Bihar province in India. Bhaviṣyati. Because Bhāgavata Purāṇa was written five thousand years ago, and Lord Buddha appeared about 2,600 years ago. So therefore it is stated, bhaviṣyati: "In future, just in the beginning of Kali-yuga, Lord will appear as Buddha. His mother's name will be Añjana, and his business will be to cheat the atheists."

Allen Ginsberg: To cheat the atheists.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: The idea is that anything which is, I mean to say, accepted by the leading persons, ordinary persons follow them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas. Śreṣṭhas means leading persons. Ācarati, acts. Whatever leading persons act, people in general follow them. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute. If the leading person says, "It is nice. It is all right," the others also accept it. So by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, you are leaders. Thousands of young men follow you. They like you. So if you give them something actually nice, the face of the world will change. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not a manufactured new thing. It is, from historical point of view, at least, it is five thousand years old. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And Bhagavad-gītā... Of course, it is supposed to be Indian religious book, but it is not like that. It is not Indian or Hinduism. It is for all the people of the world. Not only for the human being, but also other than human being, because in the Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4). In all species, all kinds of form... The living entities, they are in different forms.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: People can be peaceful by knowing three things. If he perfectly understands only three things, then he'll become peaceful. What is that? Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. All the sacrifices, austerities, penances, whatever people are undertaking for perfection, the enjoyer of such activities, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am." "I am." Just like your activities. This is also a kind of austerities. Your artistic songs, they have become popular because you have undergone some austerities. You have come to the perfection. That requires penance and austerities. Or any scientific discovery, that requires austerities. So every nice thing presented in the world, that requires austerity. Very devout, painstaking. Then it becomes successful. That is called yajña. Tapasya. So Kṛṣṇa says, "The result of the tapasya enjoyer, I am." He is claiming. "The result of your tapasya should come to Me." Then you'll be satisfied. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). People are claiming, "This is my England," and "This is my India," "This is my Germany," "This is my China." No. Everything belongs to God, Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka. Not only on this planet. We have divided this planet in so many states. Actually this planet was not divided. From the history of Mahābhārata we understand. This planet, there was only one king, one emperor, in India, Hastinapur. Even up to five thousand years ago, there was only one king, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, one flag.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Canakya, Canakya Pandit. He was a great politician and brāhmaṇa.

Yamunā: Was he in Lord Caitanya's time?

Prabhupāda: No, no. He was five thousand years..., not. Three thousand years.

Haṁsadūta: He was a great devotee?

Devotee: No.

Haṁsadūta: No?

Guest (1): He was politician. He was a mathematician.

Prabhupāda: He was very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, rigid brāhmaṇa. That's all.

Guest (1): He was insulted once in boyhood by something of Mahātmānanda.

Prabhupāda: Nanda.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: But so far... So far we are concerned, this Bhagavad-gītā... It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Now, this Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "This system of Bhagavad-gītā was first spoken by Me to the sun-god." So if you take estimation of that period, it comes forty millions of years. So whether the European scholars can trace out the history of at least for five thousand years together, not to speak of forty millions?

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we have got evidences that his varṇāśrama system is current at least for the five thousand years, varṇāśrama system. And this varṇāśrama system is mentioned in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa also. Varnāśramācaravata puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

(CC Madhya 8.58). Varnāśrama acaravata. So that is stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. And so varṇāśrama-dharma is not a, within any historical period calculated in the modern age. It is natural.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: As confirmed by all the Vedic scriptures and by the great sages in the disciplic succession, He has a body made of eternity, bliss, and all knowledge. God has infinite forms and expansions. But of all His forms, His original form, His transcendental form, is as a cowherd boy. A form which He reveals only to His most confidential devotees. So go the teachings of Kṛṣṇa as laid down in the Vedic literature. And of the sages in the disciplic succession, which I mentioned, one is our guest for this conversation today. He is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, foremost teacher in the West of the Kṛṣṇa philosophy, which, moreover, he teaches not only by word, but by example. He came to this country in 1965 on orders of his spiritual master. As a Kṛṣṇa disciple, he is the present human exponent of a line of succession going back five hundred years to the appearance in India of Lord Caitanya, and beyond that, to a time five thousand years ago when Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself was on this planet and His words were recorded. Welcome, sir. What is Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that every living being, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got many expansion. That is called personal expansion and separated expansion. So separated expansions we are, we living entities. But although we are very intimately connected with Kṛṣṇa, somehow or other we are now separated by contact of material nature. So we have practically forgotten that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Actually that is the fact. And because... Just like a rich man's son.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: Now in this line of succession that we were talking about earlier, this disciplic line of succession which goes way back, all the way back to Kṛṣṇa Himself, right, was your spiritual master the previous one before you?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The disciplic succession is coming from Kṛṣṇa since 5,000 years.

Interviewer: Is your spiritual master still alive?

Prabhupāda: No. He has passed away in 1936.

Interviewer: So you are at this particular time then the head in the world of this movement? Would that be correct?

Prabhupāda: I have got many other Godbrothers, but I was particularly ordered to do this from the very beginning. So I am trying to please my spiritual master. That's all.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So it is the book to understand Kṛṣṇa, but these people, unscrupulous people, even great scholars, they tried to explain something, taking advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā. Instead of understanding Kṛṣṇa, they wanted to present something of their concoction through the Bhagavad-gītā. So this movement was already there since five thousand years. But these, I may say, the foolish scholars, they suppressed. Caitanya Mahāprabhu revived. Five hundred years ago he revived. So from Caitanya Mahāprabhu time we are trying to revive this movement in different way, different way. About two hundred years ago, hundred and fifty years ago, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura revived it, and then about fifty years ago, my Guru Maharaja, he revived it, and he also ordered me that "You go and preach this philosophy to the Western world." So under his order I came, and I presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, as you have read. So the acceptance has been very marvelous, because the things are presented in pure form, so it has acted very nice.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: All right. (aside to associate:) You're going to cue me, right? (addressing audience:) Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as confirmed by all the Vedic scriptures and by the great sages in disciplic succession. He has a body made of eternity, bliss and all knowledge. God has infinite forms and expansions, but of all His forms, His original form, His transcendental form, is as a cowherd boy, a form which He reveals only to His most confidential devotees. So go the teachings of Kṛṣṇa as laid down in the Vedic literature. And of the sages in the disciplic succession, which I mentioned, one is our guest for this conversation today. He is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, foremost teacher in the West of the Kṛṣṇa philosophy, which, moreover, he teaches not only by word but by example. He came to this country in 1965, on orders of his spiritual master. As a Kṛṣṇa disciple he is the present human exponent of a line of succession going back five hundred years to the appearance in India of Lord Caitanya, and beyond that to a time five thousand years ago, when Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself was on this planet and His words were recorded. Welcome, sir. What..., what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that every living being, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got many expansions. That is called personal expansion and separated expansion. So separated expansions we are, we living entities. But although we are very intimately connected with Kṛṣṇa, somehow or other we are now separated by contact of material nature. So we have practically forgotten that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: Now in this line of succession that we were talking about earlier, this disciplic line of succession which goes way back, all the way back to Kṛṣṇa himself—right?—was your spiritual master the previous one before you?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The disciplic succession is coming from Kṛṣṇa since five thousand years.

Interviewer: Is your spiritual master still alive?

Prabhupāda: No. He has passed away in 1936.

Interviewer: So you are, at this particular time then, sort of the head in world of this movement? Would that be correct?

Prabhupāda: I have got many other Godbrothers, but I was particularly ordered to do this, and from the very beginning, so I am trying to please my spiritual master, that's all.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: This Mahābhārata means, mahā means greater. Formerly 5,000 years ago, the whole planet was called Bhārata, India. India it is now called. Actually the name is Bhārata. Bhārata is the name given after the reign of Mahārāja, one King Bhārata. He was the ruler, emperor, of the whole world. After his reign this planet is called Bhārata, this whole planet, Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata is Greater India or Greater Bhārata. The headquarter was in India but it was greater, according to Mahābhārata history and this Bhagavad-gītā is given there in the Mahābhārata. Therefore it is history. And actually it is historical because the battlefield is still existing...

Dr. Weir: In the mind...

Śyāmasundara: No, it's there, Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: Kurukṣetra, battlefield.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: But the Greek civilization was not developed five thousand years ago.

Yamunā: It wasn't even developed.

Dr. Kapoor: But he doesn't take it so back as five thousand years.

Guru dāsa: So anybody can say anything. (guest laughs)

Prabhupāda: Our authorities, they accept Mandakara(?) is not as good as Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya. We... Nobody can give credit to Mandakara more than these ācāryas or Caitanya. So how his proposition can be accepted?

Dr. Kapoor: So he was knighted, you see, by the British government.

Prabhupāda: Yes, just see. (guest laughs) Just like Nehru bribed one Mukerjee, Rādhā-kuṇḍa Mukerjee, doctor, to write book where he has supported cow slaughter.

Dr. Kapoor: He supported. Hmm, hmm.

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: On this theory, all their philosophy is going on. So if they give credit that Indians were so high scholars and philosophers, then the whole theory is spoiled. Because brain is developing, and the background of brain was monkey. So how such philosophical highly moral scholarly work can be done? And this is going on. If Bhāgavata is accepted as we accept that five thousand years ago it was written, then their whole civilization becomes topsy-turvy.

Dr. Kapoor: About the Bhāgavata also he says that there is the mention of Buddha in Bhāgavata and many descendants of Buddha who lived...

Prabhupāda: The Buddhists, they don't accept that verse. Kīkaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati, buddho nāmnāñjana-sutaḥ. They do not accept. About Buddha, in Hindu literature, Vedic literature, there is mention, bhaviśyati, feature(?). That is insult to them. Therefore, they do not accept this verse. Neither we say Buddha is incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra. They do not accept this. They think it is insult.

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: So how do they speak of that chronologically? They don't accept that Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as five thousand years old?

Dr. Kapoor: No. (break) This bundle...

Śyāmasundara: No, those are documents.

Dr. Kapoor: Documents?

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, photocopies.

Dr. Kapoor: You promised to give me a photo of Prabhupāda.

Guru dāsa: I'll give you one.

Prabhupāda: If you have got any colored photo, you can give him. So we have now increased eighty-seven.

Śyāmasundara: More, ninety-two.

Prabhupāda: Ninety-two?

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: So was this material advancement less than this? And this is description of five thousand years ago. So here in Tokyo Kobe, in Japan there is so much industrials. We find the common man, 99% they are living on matchboxes. That's all. How many men are living in this nice apartment? The common man is living in matchbox. So this is not material advancement. A few people exploiting them in their factory. They are working and they are living in this nice building. But the common man is living in matchbox houses. We traveled these three hundred miles, or four hundred miles. We saw simply 99% matchboxes. What do you think, Bhānu? Is it not?

Bhānu: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is the system. Just like in law court two lawyers are fighting, but the lawyer who is giving evidences from the lawbook, he is accepted by the judge. And therefore, generally you will find, whenever we speak something, we give evidence from the śāstra in Sanskrit, in all our books. That is the way of proving that whatever I am speaking, it is fact. In the Bhāgavata it is already stated, lavaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. Keśa means hair. To keep long, long hair will be the practice of people because they will think by keeping long hair they look very beautiful. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Five thousand years this prediction is there: "In this Kali-yuga people will keep long hair, and..., because that will be appreciated, that a man keeping long hair is very beautiful." So that is happening. Just see. Five thousand years ago, that was written, and that is happening. There are so many things. That is called śāstra. It is truth for all the days—past, present, future. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. These things are stated. "Husband and wife will keep together so long their sex power is strong.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then their horoscope should be consulted, how they will mix together, and then the family, then personal qualification, so many things... Then dowry... After all this consideration, when everything is satisfactory, then the father and mother of both sides will agree, and they will be married. That is marriage. Now, at the present moment in Kali-yuga, it is said, svīkāram eva hy udvahe. Boys and girls will loiter in the street and two of them, as they agree, "Yes, we will live together." That's all. Bas. This is stated. And that is happening. So this is called śāstra. Five thousand years ago, what was predicted, that is now happening. Therefore we give so much stress on the śāstra that it is perfect. There is no mistake. If you write one book, I write one book, because we are imperfect, it is all imperfect.

Impersonalist: What about Buddha? Would you say that he is good?

Śyāmasundara: Buddha, Lord Buddha.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What's the point in talking nonsense? One's words may be simple, but they should be valuable. Every day your employer is printing so many newspapers. On Sunday, especially, the paper is so big that one can hardly carry it. But after reading it an hour, people throw it away. Here is this book, Bhagavad-gītā, and people keep it and read it for a lifetime, and in this way it has been read for the past 5,000 years. Give such literature that will be taken and kept forever.

John Nordheimer: (laughing) It's already been suggested that we (the New York Times) are not divinely inspired. At any rate, this book-

Prabhupāda: If one gets a diamond, he possesses something valuable. But in this civilization you are simply making plastic plates and plastic cups. Indeed, in Japan I have seen pasteboard homes. And everyone is thinking that he is advanced. Formerly people used to have golden and silver utensils, but now they have plastic ones, and still they are very proud to be so materially advanced. What is your position? You have a bunch of paper and think, "I am a millionaire." What is the value of that paper? Is that not cheating? However, if we possess gold or diamonds worth a million dollars, that is actual wealth. But we are educated in such a way that we think we are millionaires by paper only. As soon as there is some catastrophe, millions of such dollars could not buy bread. This actually happened in Germany; millions of marks could not purchase one piece of bread. All this is going on in the name of advancement of civilization, and the real purpose of life, God consciousness, is missing.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (1): They are impressed by what is called Vedic cosmology, how they knew five thousand years ago about the situation of planets. But then when you get personal, you tell how these planets are coming, then they will not accept. But they are impressed by the stature of the knowledge that is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The astronomers and the cosmologists, they define the universe in three definitions. And according to their own..., they say the visible space, the universe, they say this is their laboratory for their research to find out the unlimited expanding universe. So this is their laboratory for their... So they call..., this is called observable universe, the universe that can be observed and perceived by instruments. Then another definition of universe they call unlimited. That includes the observable plus everything that is not observable. And the third aspect they call physical universe. That means this universe can be studied by physical laws, mathematics, physics. So they call these are physical universe. So based on these...

Prabhupāda: So how they can say beyond this universe there is no other?

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, you are rascal, you have rascal's history. We are not rascal; we have got another history. Why shall I accept your history? You are rascal. You be satisfied with the history that your great grandfather and his father used to live in the cave. But we don't accept. Our forefather used to live in palace. Sixteen thousand palaces, Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) So you rascal, you live with your own history. Why you force your rascaldom history upon us? We are not going to accept. We get history from five thousand years ago. You have no history beyond three thousand years. But we give the shortest history, five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa. And how much intelligent from historical point of view Kṛṣṇa was. We can understand from His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is not that because we are Kṛṣṇaites we are canvassing. The whole world is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Why, unless there is intelligence? All scholars, all religionists, all philosophers, they are giving attention to Bhagavad-gītā. So how you can say Kṛṣṇa was living in the cave? Your forefather might be living in a cave, but our forefather did not live in a cave but palaces. Your forefather is a monkey, according to that history.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Jayatīrtha: Even from a commonsense point of view, it's easy to understand that there's been civilization longer than five thousand years (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Our proposition is the first creature of this universe is Lord Brahmā, who has created the universe. First creature of this universe, the most intelligent person. How we can accept the nonsense that this has developed from stone? (Sanskrit) cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). Do you know this story?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). So there was a circle of friends. So all the friends conspired to make another friend bewildered. So they conspired that "As soon as you meet that gentleman you cry, 'Oh, here is a ghost! Here is a ghost! Here is a ghost!' " So all the friends, they come (indistinct), "Oh! You are dead, you are ghost, you are ghost!"

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: No.

Scholar: Dvāpara-yuga is two thousand years, and Kali-yuga is one thousand years.

Prabhupāda: One thousand years? (laughs) We have already passed five thousand years.

Scholar: Wait. Oh. There is one thousand years, god's years. If it is human years it is four million three thousand, three hundred twenty thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Total. There is...

Scholar: Four millions and...

Prabhupāda: That is the total yuga.

Scholar: Yes, in human years.

Prabhupāda: Human calculation.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Degradation.

Scholar: It's the time for that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It has begun for the last 5,000 years. It's going on.

Scholar: And how long it will be?

Prabhupāda: And it will remain for another 427,000's of years. The whole duration is 432,000's of years, out of which we have passed only 5,000 years. That means the balance is 427,000 years. So at the end, people will forget everything about God. There are descriptions of the Kali-yuga. So if we again come back to Kali-yuga, it is not very good for us. The symptoms have already begun. So actually, we must do something by which people may derive some benefit. Simply for formalities there is no value. And that, things are already mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. You have to simply follow the program, then life will be perfect. (Hindi) Fruit. Give them this prasādam, this fruit.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: This movement started from since 5,000 years, since Kṛṣṇa appeared. We have not start... manufactured this movement. We are just pushing on the same movement, rightly, that's all. We can say how long this movement has been started rightly.

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Prasādam means little. The others may come, what will be such and such, again you have to bring, till somebody comes.

Devotee: We'll be going shortly.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but if somebody comes, again you have to go, bring back. People are not come here to fill up their bellies. (laughs) Little prasāda, that will satisfy. Only one piece.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Tokyo.

Devotee (1): In Malaysia also (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: These are all oriental countries. Five thousand years ago this whole planet was India, Bhārata-varṣa. That we get from history, Mahābhārata. This planet name is Bhārata-varṣa.

Devotee (2): After King Parīkṣit, then it divided up, that soon after?

Prabhupāda: Divided? They are also already divided. But the culture diminished. Because the center of culture was India, Delhi. So as the power diminished, the maintenance of the culture diminished, and by contact with other types of aboriginal, they learned eating meat and gradually degraded. And they discovered different kinds of religion because... Just like at the present moment Christians are protesting why there should not be abortion. So they wanted to degraded. So the Indian culture did not allow, so the separate type of religion came out. This is the (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So the Britishers, they wanted to rule over India, and they were advertising, at least in India, that: "We are making you civilized. Before British rule, the Indians were rude, primitive natives." That's all. That is their propaganda. The whole propaganda was to make the Indians known that: "We are giving you life and civilization. Before this, you were not even human beings." That is their propaganda. So they accept this literature, but they date within one thousand years, one thousand-five hundred years. Even this rascal, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he dates Bhagavad-gītā within two thousand years. That's all. Perhaps I am the first person making propaganda that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. I am the first person. All other so-called scholars, they have dated within two thousand years. (pause) There was a book: "England's work in India," written by one rascal Indian, M. Ghosh. In that book... That was taught in the schools in our days. The theme of the book is that before British rule, India was not at all advanced in any way. The incidence of satī... Satī. That was very elaborately explained.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: Right. But, I mean, with due respect to śāstras, after all, in my opinion śāstras are written by very intelligent people, and how so ever intelligent they would have been five thousand years ago, they could not have...

Prabhupāda: Not five thousand years.

Krishna Tiwari: Or ten thousand?

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot calculate.

Krishna Tiwari: How... Well, this is a different game then.

Prabhupāda: No. We have got... Because this, if we take on the strength of śāstra, we understand that after the birth of Brahmā... Brahmā created this universe.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Lord Brahmā.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

David Wynne: It has.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago, it was all perfect. The whole world, this planet, was being ruled by one king. And they were all happy. That is in the history. Five thousand years ago. Maybe less, in three thousand years ago the history was different. The difficulty is that as soon as one is lost of his culture, he becomes an animal. Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the difference between human being and animal. Human being must be with culture. Animal cannot be cultured. So a human being without culture, he's no better than animal. That culture is lost. They have missed the aim of life.

Revatīnandana: They think they have culture.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: A child is innocent, and his father is ignorant. His father may be knowing something, and purposely does not take. That is ignorance. Or he thinks that "What is the use of taking it?" That is ignorance. And innocent, he does not know anything. Actually, practically, there is little difference, but if you ask, you can differentiate in this way. Just like in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This mūḍha is ignorant, and he does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone, according to our Vedic culture, for the last five thousand years, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but he'll not do. He will say, "Why Kṛṣṇa will be the Supreme Lord? I am also." This is offense. This is offense. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. This offense is created on account of sinful life. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Innocent has no sinful life. Otherwise there is no difference between ignorant and innocent. Purposefully, when one remains ignorant, foolish, purposefully... He'll not accept.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Then if there is question of "Why?" then you do not come to us. You can ask somebody else. Because Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all the yogis, all the saintly persons, therefore... There is no question of "Why?" Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the decision of the Vedic literature. All the ācāryas. We have to follow, mahājano yena gataḥ, big personalities. Now in India, the big personalities in the modern age, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya, all of them accept kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Formerly, five thousand years ago, Vyāsadeva, before that, Nārada—everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So there is no question about Kṛṣṇa's being the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why? Why? Because these people accept, the śāstra says, the Vedas says, therefore He is the Supreme Personality.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The one thing is they take it. Others will not take it. That is the difference. If... There is a picture; my Guru Mahārāja has..., one man has fallen in a deep well, and he's crying "Save me!" So another man dropped a rope, that "You catch it. I shall carry you." Then he'll not catch it. Then how he can be drawn. So... (break) ...mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is nothing more superior than Me." We are preaching the same thing, that "You are searching after God. You are, some of you are disgusted that 'There is no God,' but here is God. You take His name. You take His address. You take His daily activities. Everything is there." And that is our mission. And we started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in 1966. So when I registered this society, somebody suggested that "Why not make it 'God consciousness?' " And no, I want to give definitely what is God. God, they have got different conception. But here is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the Vedic injunction. "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And when He was present, He proved it, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have not introduced any new system of religion. That is not a fact. We have simply placed, administered, the same thing which was spoken five thousand years ago. That's all. Five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa said that "There is nothing, no more superior authority than Me."

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: They are of opinion that "Life has come from matter," and we are challenging, "No, life and matter, both have come from life." This is our challenge. So originally life, originally Kṛṣṇa, life. Not matter. Matter has come subsequently. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a new movement. It is the old movement. At least, historically, five thousand years old. And we have got so many books. We have... Out of sixty volumes, we have published only about twelve volumes. So it's a great literature, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So everything is there; nothing new. We haven't got to make a new system of religion. It is already there. Simply people may kindly understand it. That is our proposition.

Buddhist Monk (1): What happens when similar statements are made by other people that we have, they have their own god, who is, they made a unique system, and someone else says, "No, we have our own unique system." Someone else says, "No, all those three systems we do not agree with. We have got our unique system." What's going to happen in that thing?

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We are disobeying. Therefore we are suffering. Otherwise, He's giving us good counsel, good advice. So this formula, that bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām... (BG 5.29). So if we accept God, or Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme friend, then whatever advice He'll give me, if we follow, then I am happy. There is no difficulty. He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If we do that, we become happy. Where is the difficulty? From historical point of view... Of course, no, I mean to say, religious literature is older than Bhagavad-gītā. It was spoken by the Supreme Lord personally five thousand years ago. And that old thing we are presenting as it is. Our Bhagavad-gītā is therefore named Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Without any interpretation. Without any addition, alteration. No, we don't make that. If we make addition, alteration, then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? We don't do that. And that is proving effective. Those who are taking according to the instruction, they're becoming happy. Practical. Without any consideration of time, country, people. Anyone is accepting, and he's becoming happy.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Within ten thousand years, if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then life is successful. After ten thousand years, the gloomy picture of Kali-yuga will come. Still there is time. Ten thousand years is not small period. So we have passed five thousand years. So still ten thousand. We have got to the fifteen thousand years. Kali-yuga's duration of life is four hundred thousand, four hundred and twenty-seven thousand. Char-lakh murti saja. (?) Yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Do you travel much all over the world and...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least twice in a year, all over the world. Just in April I was here, in London. April? Or May?

Śyāmasundara: May.

Room Conversation -- London, August 24, 1973 :

Prabhupāda: No. India, India at the present moment, they have lost their culture. In India, five thousand years ago, when Maharaja Pariksit was there, one black man was trying to kill a cow. He immediately took his sword, the king. So "Who are you? You are killing cow in my kingdom?" The same India, the government is sanctioning ten thousand cows to be killed daily. So India is not the same India. India has lost its culture. You see? Therefore they are suffering.

Woman: But everything is changing. Not only India is changing, every country is...

Prabhupāda: So every country is suffering. Just they are suffering in one way.

Devotee (1): California is suffering...

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if we accept that Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of everything, then it becomes one state, as it was formerly, five thousand years ago.

Bhagavān: But to do that from the position the world is in today, it seems like it's so, it'd be almost, very difficult to come to that platform again, unless we...

Prabhupāda: It may be difficult, but the philosophy is there. Solution is there.

Bhagavān: That requires getting some kind of political position perhaps? At least, if not us, someone else adopting the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, appreciating them, or...

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is the purport? Read.

Śrutakīrti: "The duration of the material universe is limited. It is manifested in cycles of kalpas. A kalpa is a day of Brahmā and one day of Brahmā consists of a thousand cycles of four yugas or ages, Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara and Kali. A cycle of Satya is characterized by virtue, wisdom and religion, there being practically no ignorance and vice, and the yuga lasts one million, seven hundred and twenty-eight thousand years. In the Tretā-yuga vice is introduced and this yuga lasts 1,296,000 years. In the Dvāpara-yuga there is an even greater decline in virtue and religion, vice increasing, and the yuga lasts 864,000 years. And finally in Kali-yuga, the yuga we have now been experiencing over the past five thousand years, there is an abundance of strife, ignorance, irreligion and vice, true virtue being practically non-existent, and this yuga lasts 432,000 years.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Bhāgavatam.

David Lawrence: A very great deal of what one could call demonology if you like. Now, I confess this raises problems for me. When a book like that...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago.

David Lawrence: Yes, very, very ancient. Is it to be taken, the references say to Pūtanā, is this to be taken...

Prabhupāda: It is also fact.

David Lawrence: ...physically or spiritually as a demonic power or what?

Prabhupāda: No, no, which one?

David Lawrence: Where, is it the demoness Pūtanā takes Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa sucks her breast?

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Reporter (1): How does He speak to you or to us?

Prabhupāda: He was present five thousand years ago. He came on this planet and gave instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. So that is recorded.

Reporter (1): Why have you written Bhagavad-gītā as it really is? Why?

Prabhupāda: As it is, because there are many foolish rascals, they interpret unnecessarily. Just like Kurukṣetra. Kurukṣetra is a place in India, still existing. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The meaning is clear, that "Kurukṣetra is a religious place and there, the Pāṇḍavas and the Kurus, they assembled together for fighting." But many so-called leaders, political leaders, scholars, they have interpreted, "Kurukṣetra means the body."

Reporter (1): Can you tell me the chant? Will you recite the chant to me? And then tell me why it's used so often by the followers?

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Reporter (1): Tell me a little bit about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will you?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness means the same, Bhagavad-gītā as it is, which was spoken five thousand years ago by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, we are preaching the same Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is accepted, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we are preaching that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa."

Reporter (1): Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness genuine?

Prabhupāda: Then we are simply wasting our time, do you think? By preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do you think we are wasting our time? We are so fools? Why do you ask this nonsense question, "genuine"? Unless it is genuine, why we are working so hard?

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Reporter (3): So how long has Kṛṣṇa consciousness been in India, or were you...?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is in India from Vedic age, since a very, very long time. But especially since five thousand years ago when...

Reporter (3): So you, you didn't start everything off?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I'm simply presenting in English language. That's all.

Reporter (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is already there.

Reporter (3): Yes. What, what... And can I ask one last question?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter (3): What do you think of young people who follow the Divine Light Movement.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, radio. That was Jagadisha Candra Bose's discovery. But the government will not give the credit to the Indians. Because Jagadisha Candra Bose happened to be Indian. These Britishers they are so much envious. Therefore they will never admit that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. They bring all within the Christian period. That is their rascaldom.

Jayādvaita: We went to a college and gave a class last week where the professor was saying that the Bhagavad-gītā is only two thousand years old, like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will never accept it.

Yaśomatīnandana: One stupid guy was saying that there is some quotation in the Bhagavad-gītā from Book of John.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is another rascaldom. Tava cārjuna.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Their hopes are being frustrated every moment; still, they are hoping. That is foolishness.

Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I once was distributing some of your literature to a library, and the librarian said, "If these are five thousand years old, where is the proof of this? Do we have the copies that were written down five thousand years ago?"

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. This is the proof. You see. But if you close your eyes... Just like if somebody says, "Now there is sunrise, light." And if he is in darkness, he says, "Where is the proof there is light?" So, "You please come out and see." So you read it and there will be proof.

Karandhara: Even if you don't accept it's five thousand years old, that doesn't diminish the value of the books.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: All the great sages and saints.

Prabhupāda: Where are their higher authorities?

Satsvarūpa: They don't accept śāstra, that Kṛṣṇa lifted Govardhana Hill five thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: No... Like that, they do not believe the śāstra, just see.

Yaśomatīnandana: They believe in Alexander the Great and George Washington. Why don't they believe in Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it. That is their foolishness. Nobody has seen George Washington.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. So they are opportunists. They are not learned scholar. Our proposition is that five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa taught that "I am the Supreme." So Arjuna accepted, paraṁ brahma, paraṁ dhāma: (BG 10.12) "Yes, You are Supreme." Then all the ācāryas later on, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, even Śaṅkarācārya, all accepted. "Yes," kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Then after that, ācārya system, Lord Caitanya accepted, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." So after Caitanya, five hundred years, all the ācāryas, they are accepting. So we are accepting or teaching the same thing. No change, no change. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. If there is change, that is not nitya, that is not śāśvata. That is circumstantial. That is material.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...getting worse over these five thousand years, but by a reintroduction, reintroducing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the tide can be turned in age of Kali?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is the only remedy. That is the only remedy. Anyone who takes to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he'll be cleansed of all sinful activities and then everything will come out nice. And it is practical. It is not story. Just see, all our disciples in Europe, America, they were habituated to so many bad habits, and because they are chanting, they are now cleansed. So it is small-scale. If you propagate it large-scale, everyone will be cleansed. (break) ...disciples who were trained up from very beginning of their life: meat-eating. They are giving meat-eating. Here in your country, small children, they are fed with meat-powder. Intoxication is also a daily affair. How they are giving up all intoxication? (break) Is there arrangement for... Where is Karandhara?

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That is your concoction. We get so many literatures. Huh? The Bhāgavata literature, five thousand years old. You have no history beyond three thousand years. Neither even at the present moment you have got such nice literature. When you say that people are very much advanced, who has produced such literature? Where is a book like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā, whole world? If you say that this book was written, say 1,500 years ago, but where is a similar literature in any other part of the world? Eh? Is there a similar literature? Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa...

Satsvarūpa: When Darwin's theory was first being taught in America, there was opposition from the Christians, and there was a famous court trial called the Scopes case, and the Bible was used to, against this so-called scientific theory. But the Bible is so inadequate that they lost.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: They cannot find out bones and fossils of Kṛṣṇa. Now, why they accept?

Satsvarūpa: Nobody agreed... (tape garbled)

Prabhupāda: You have to accept authority... (break) ...authority of yourself, we have got authority also. We have got authority. We have got our books... (break) ...that Kali-yuga has begun five thousand years but you say they do not believe in... (break) ...these rascals. Although it is history... (end)

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: Prabhupāda was the other day saying that we're the, we have the science of love of God. Many people say, the material scientists say perhaps or about 5,000 years ago such and such happened, but we say 485 years ago Lord Caitanya came. Five thousand years ago such and such happened. There are 8,400,000 species of life, not perhaps there are 8,400,000. So, this is very scientific, this relationship.

Prabhupāda: This is very difficult for the Māyāvādī philosophers to answer, that everyone is God but when God becomes ignorant? And what kind of God He is that He forgets and becomes ignorant? In māyā. So māyā becomes better than God? Is it not? Then what is the definition of God? So many things. But they cannot answer. Just like you said that when you become ignorant (indistinct) God, how it happens? (indistinct). God, how God can be ignorant? And how can God become forgetful? It is contradictory. Then what kind of God he is, that he becomes ignorant sometimes?

Guru dāsa: And if it's Kṛṣṇa's yogamāyā that makes us forgetful and makes God forgetful, that means Kṛṣṇa's God.

Guest (1): No, no, He's the Lord of māyā. He, Kṛṣṇa's pure.

Guru dāsa: Kṛṣṇa's the Lord of everything.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, that is also not mentioned. Simply Sambal. And Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago, and there is also mention of Lord Buddha's name. Kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Bhaviṣyati. This word is used, "in future." So this is śāstra, that even the incarnation will come four lakhs of years after or 2,500 years after, still, there is mention. His feature, his work—everything is there. Why should we accept a false imitation unless it is corroborated by the śāstra? You cannot say everyone is realized soul because he recommends something. No. We have to corroborate. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the defect of our understanding, that we accept everyone as realized soul. How he is realized soul? If he is speaking something wrong, how he is realized soul? Against the śāstra. That is not realized soul. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). Śāstra reference must be there.

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Well, nobody's activities can be greater than God's activities.

Yogeśvara: There was that lady who came to see you yesterday who asked that "Lord Jesus performed so many miracles. So what miracles did Kṛṣṇa perform?" So your reply was so many miracles, killing Putana and so on. But that was five thousand years ago. Kṛṣṇa's not here today. And people will ask, "Well we cannot see these miracles. So how can we accept Kṛṣṇa?"

Bhagavān: Well they can't see Jesus's miracles either.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They can see the miracles of Jesus Christ?

Yogeśvara: They will accept anyone.

Prabhupāda: All such questions. No sober questions.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Everything is there. When they were building this costly skyscraper, they forgot that this skyscraper will be the same fate as there were big, big Roman buildings two thousand years ago. Because I will have to leave. Although the building is very solid, it will not be destroyed within five thousand years, but you are not going to live here for five thousand years. You can live for fifty years sir. Then go away. Then it will be relic. That's all. So why don't you make guarantee, that "I have made this strong building to stand for five thousand... Let me live also." Where is your that knowledge? This is illusion. They know it, that "I shall not be able to live in this house. I shall not get the duration of life as big as this building will have. Then why am I wasting my energy in this way? I shall be zero after fifty years." What is this knowledge? You are not also going to enjoy. Then he is pleased that "My sons and grandsons and..." Who is your grandson? Who is your son? That he does not know. Nobody's son, nobody's grandson. Everyone is coming just like we have come, and they will go away. So similarly, they are coming and going. This is... No knowledge.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: At that time. That is finished. So that is not permanent settlement. But Kṛṣṇa's, Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, supremacy, at least for the last five thousand years, is intact. Now, he says Aurobindo, Gandhi, Ramakrishna. They're all gone. They came and gone. But Kṛṣṇa philosophy is truth, and it is standing, and it will go on standing. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says it's not the person important in this example. It's the idea they was expressing, all from five thousand years. The same idea was there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, same idea. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: (SB 1.3.28) "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That idea is accepted.

Karandhara: No, he's saying that Aurobindo and Ramakrishna expressed that same idea in contemporary language in their own time.

Prabhupāda: So that existed temporarily. Now it is gone. That will not appeal. (French)

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I think we must be extraordinarily fortunate that Lord Kṛṣṇa, He appears once in a day of Brahmā, and He appeared just five thousand years ago. And then Lord Caitanya just appeared five hundred years ago, and we have an opportunity to associate with Them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Always remember this grace of Lord and utilize it. (long pause) So these houses were constructed before Napoleon, or after Napoleon?

Yogeśvara: Before.

French Devotee: Oui. Oui. These big house?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

French Devotee: Before Napoleon. But this arch is called Carousel Arch, and that's for Napoleon.

Prabhupāda: After Napoleon?

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Yogeśvara: This, the question of religion, did it come before Christ or before Buddha?

Prabhupāda: Yes, 5,000 years ago.

Lady (2): Yes, before.

Prabhupāda: 5,000 years.

Pṛthu Putra: (translates into French)

Lady (2): 5,000 years, eh?

Prabhupāda: This is now. Before that, this was spoken some millions of years ago to the Sun-god. You find out that verse, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1).

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pṛthu Putra: (French)

Prabhupāda: So this philosophy was spoken 300 millions of years ago. And then again, He spoke 5,000 years ago. This is the history of Bhagavad-gītā. Now, your question. You say that animal has no soul, is it not?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: That a man has soul, you admit?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Lady (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: Generally in the West it is admitted that the man possesses a soul and not the animals.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yoga, this yoga system means controlling the mind. But 5,000 years ago a person like Arjuna, who had his friend Kṛṣṇa, he is saying that it is not possible for him. And at the present moment people are so degraded—not in the position of Arjuna—how they can get success? He is not ordinary man. Such a great warrior belonged to the royal family, and so qualified that he could talk with Kṛṣṇa personally, he says that it is not possible. So, do you think that you are..., become more than Arjuna that you can get success?

Pṛthu Putra: Translating into French.

Prabhupāda: Read this second verse, cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: This is all from the Twelfth Canto?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Foretold, five thousand years ago. Here said, tapasvino grāma-vāsā nyāsino 'tyartha-lolupāḥ: "And the sannyāsīs, they'll be too much greedy about money."

Yogeśvara: Just see.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But this is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam five thousand years ago. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: (SB 7.5.31) "These rascals, they do not know what is the aim of life."

Professor Durckheim: No, nothing.

Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Their aim of life is God realization, but they do not know that. And why they do not know that? Bahir-artha-māninaḥ: "They are thinking by these external features of the material nature they will be happy." That is very quite visible in the western countries. They are thinking that by constructing big, big, high skyscraper building their civilization is advancing, or machine, or technology. But they do not know this is not the aim of life. Real aim of life—to understand God. And na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means something, utopian hope, which will be never fulfilled. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Piling up simply bricks and stone, they are thinking, "In this way we shall be happy." That is durāśayā. That is never to be fulfilled.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: "You cannot understand"—that is also good. Suppose a child cannot understand. But there must be some explanation. Otherwise, how in advanced stages one can accept. They will say, "dogmatic." This body means this material body, and this material body has got so many shapes, 8,400,000. So hell means... This is also hellish. A tree is standing for five thousand years or five hundred years. Is it not hellish? If I ask you, "Stand here for five days," you will die. (laughing) If there is such order from the government, "You stand here for so many days..."

Satsvarūpa: Naked. Naked too.

Prabhupāda: Naked. This is hellish. (dog barking) Now this, another hellish life. His only business is to bark. The master may like to keep a dog, but if he is said that "You also become a dog," he will not agree. Will he agree?

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No... But principle is that you try to understand that you are not this body. That is applicable in all time, all circumstances, all, for everyone. It is not that formerly one had to learn that he's not this body, and now that is not required. The same problem is there still. Arjuna, five thousand years ago he was given lesson about this, that "You are not this body; you are soul." The same problem is now also for the foolish person because the foolish person will always remain in the world, and the intelligent man is to teach him. This is fact always, without any consideration of time, space, and circumstance. There will be certain class of men, foolish, and there will be certain class of men who are intelligent. So the foolish man has to take intelligence from the intelligent man. This is perpetually truth in this material world. It is not, time and circumstances changes this principle. There will be foolish men.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Not particular body—particular desire. And according to the desire, Kṛṣṇa is giving him facility through the material machine to give him a particular type of body. Just like one man is thinking of eating anything nonsense. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You give him this body of hog. He can eat even stool." That's all. You want to be naked, nudie? So Kṛṣṇa gives him, "So he is very much anxious to become nudie. Make him a tree. Stand up for five thousand years naked." This is going on.

Mādhava: If I desire...

Prabhupāda: Whatever you desire.

Mādhava: If I desire something to appear here now...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you will remain here as insect.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: There are many places. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...is given for practicing God consciousness, and they have become advanced civilized, they are cultivating nudie-ism. Is it not? Nudie-ism. So the punishment is that "All right, you become nudie, you remain standing in one place, for five thousand years." (laughter) That is right. The trees live up till five thousand years. They live.

Viṣṇujana: Prabhupāda? But they argue that if God wanted us to wear clothes He would have made us with clothes. But He made us without clothes, so...

Prabhupāda: The thing is that here material world means that whatever you want, you have to work for it. That is material world. Things are there, but you have to work for it. In the spiritual world there is no need of working. You get all necessities. That is the difference.

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Bernard Manischewitz: You say in these times. How recent is this? How recent?

Prabhupāda: Say about five thousand years. Kali-yuga has begun since five thousand years, and it will continue for 427,000 years still.

Bernard Manischewitz: I have another question. May I ask it?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Bernard Manischewitz: There seems to be a determination on the part of most of the devotees to eliminate from their lives all news except that dealing with Kṛṣṇa. It seems..., it seems to me if they are to bring Kṛṣṇa to the world that it would be an important thing for them to have news, to know, to be able to communicate with people. Is there some actual prohibition against (indistinct)?

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In his Gītā, in the verse that describes how to meditate on the formless, he states that although it says in the Bhagavad-gītā that it is very difficult to understand the formless aspect, he says this was true five thousand years ago but now it is no longer true.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have read in his Gītā.

Guest: Five thousand years ago it must have been true but now...

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is the verse, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktā-sakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). So in explaining that śloka he said, "It was painful five thousand years ago, but it is not now painful. It has become easy." That means the version of Gītā can be changed after five thousand years. Then what is the importance of speaking by Kṛṣṇa if it is changeable like material things? then what is the authority of Kṛṣṇa? Is it changeable?

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Yaśodānandana: Jesus Christ only lived for 36 years.

Prabhupāda: Who's caring for any tree who lives for five thousand years? If that is your point, to live long is a great credit, there are already so many living entities who live long, longer than you.

Devotee: Well they don't... they may be living a long time but they don't have the same intelligence how to use their life span...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...the dogs also got intelligence, the hogs also got intelligence. The intelligence which you are claiming, that is all discussed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is said yes they are living, but you don't see that breathing. So then the vastra, the bellow, it is breathing. "Waa, waa, waa, waa." It is breathing in the (indistinct) and it is (indistinct), the vastra. It is breathing (indistinct). Here they are living but you don't see they have any sex enjoyment (indistinct). The dogs and hogs, they are having very good sex enjoyment, even on the street, without any restriction, and begetting three dozen children in a year. And they give credit to whom?

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There are 8,400,000 species of life. You have seen some of them. That's all.

Devotee: But the question is that why are there not any findings from only 5,000 years ago at the time when Kṛṣṇa was here and...

Prabhupāda: Your knowledge has come to Darwin's theory for 200, not even 200 years.

Devotee: I was just talking to Kārttikeya. They have found this city 4,000 years old, (4,500).

Devotee: Where's that?

Devotee: It's near Kurukṣetra, I think.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we should advocate that Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is coming in the same form as it was taught to Arjuna. If you challenge that "How you know that it has not been changed?" the ācāryas are there. The ācāryas are there, and they are accepting. Therefore it is correct. We have to follow the ācāryas. So when we see the ācāryas have accepted, then we accept. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, before that other ācāryas also, they accept. They never say that "This was not in the original scripture. It has been changed." You don't find any such statement of the ācāryas. The best thing, therefore, if you want a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā is coming without any contradiction, change, for the last five thousand years. You accept it. Other scriptures are (unclear), and there are so many doubts, so many interpretations. So, if you want real religious system, this is the scripture spoken directly by God, and accepted by all the ācāryas, so take it. If you are really after God, so you take enlightenment from this perfect scripture. If you want truth, it doesn't matter wherefrom it is coming. I must accept the truth.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: The Bhagavad-gītā was written five thousand years ago, so it doesn't pertain to today.

Prabhupāda: No, it was not written. It was there. Then you do not read Bhagavad-gītā. Why you are speaking like that? You know Bhagavad-gītā? You have not studied Bhagavad-gītā. That is a disgrace for you. You have read Bhagavad-gītā?

Gaṇeśa: A little.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Amogha: He says yes, a little.

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know. Why he says that Bhagavad-gītā was written five thousand years ago? Why do you say like that? You do not know. It was first spoken forty millions of years ago. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham... What kind of realization of Bhagavad-gītā, you do not know? I am accusing you because you are student of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How you do not know?

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But one who does not know, why is he saying that Bhagavad-gītā was written five thousand years ago? He does not know. That is my point. If you had known then you would not have said like that, foolishly, that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. It is avyayam, it is eternally there. It is eternally there. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Avyayam means which is never under deterioration. It is eternally existing. That is avyayam. Just like ātmā, soul, avyayam. There is no deterioration. It is there. So forty millions of years ago once it was spoken, but in due course of time it is now lost; therefore I am speaking it again to you. You did not read Bhagavad-gītā it is said there? How do you say it was written five thousand years ago? It is already there. It was first spoken forty millions of years ago, now it is lost. The material world is like that. One thing is lost sometimes. Therefore I am speaking to you. And why are you speaking to me? Because you are my devotee. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. That means only the devotees can understand Bhagavad-gītā, and it is always existing, and because it is now lost... Just like we are putting Bhagavad-gītā, why am I stressing so much? It is lost.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: All right.

Amogha: The sun is this way.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is not that, five thousand years ago, not like that. Just like you cannot say the sun is now coming. It is there. It is there always. You are seeing now. They used to think like that—at night the sun is dead. These rascals. And they are advanced. They used to think that this earth is square. (laughing) And they are advanced. They are changing their opinion daily. That is their scientific knowledge. Why should they change?

Amogha: They say this means they are discovering the truth, step by step.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Their whole idea of Indian history, of Vedic history, is completely perverted. When we say five thousand years ago Vyāsadeva compiled this in writing, they say, "There was no civilization five thousand..." They said, "Only two thousand years ago there was some tribes, and they were not very moral," and things like this, all completely nonsense, because they misread the Bhāgavata and things like this. And then they teach some of the students these crazy ideas. Not all of them, but I talked to some who teach like this.

Prabhupāda: The more you fight with these rascals, the more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are a fighting soldier. Kṛṣṇa very much appreciates. (long pause) So you take Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation, and I take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So who is right? Who will decide this? You interpret in your own way. I don't interpret. I take it as it is. Now we are two parties. So who is correct?

Amogha: They say because so many others...

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...change your views victimized by these rascals. The rascals are very strong. (break) In the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā it is said, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ janā na vidur āsurāḥ. Asura. Asura, demons, demonic civilization, demonic people, they do not know what is pravṛtti and what is nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means material civilization, and nivṛtti means spiritual civilization. The modern man does not know. They are neither educated about this pravṛtti and nivṛtti. And we are speaking on nivṛtti, and all of them are in the pravṛtti. So they cannot understand. It is foreign to them. They have no idea what is spiritual life, spiritual civilization. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa spoke of all these things very clearly. Later on, the things, from the beginning of Kali-yuga, the things are deteriorating, and therefore different types of religion has sprung up. The Buddhism, Christianism, Mohammedanism. They are not perfect understanding of religious principle. And gradually the number of so-called religious section are increasing.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...if there is government laws, if you do not know it and you act independently, then you are making your life risky. So this is the case of the government law, and what to speak of God's law, nature's law, how strict it is. You can avoid government's law, but you cannot avoid nature's law. That is not possible. So that is the defect of the modern civilization: they do not know how nature is working, and they are keeping themself in ignorance, and they are suffering, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one body after another. And if he becomes a tree, stand up for five thousand years. And we have to pass through all these stages. He has come to the human form of body. Still he neglects. He continues suffering. They are mad after sense enjoyment; and accepting different material bodies, that means suffering. As soon as you accept a material body, this is suffering. But the suffering of the trees is more suffering. In a forlorn place he stand up for five thousand years and tolerate all the blast, wind, scorching heat, water.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Greek history is about three thousand years. (break) ...During the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit's grandson. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was the grandson of Yudhiṣṭhira, and Yudhiṣṭhira ruled over five thousand years ago. So the Yayāti... Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's grandson is Parīkṣit. His son is Janamejaya. And his son is Yayāti. And his son started Greek and Roman Empire. So therefore the Greek history is not more than three thousand years. Mahārāja Yayāti banished his two sons to the European quarters. Mleccha-yavana. Later on they became yavana, from Vedic culture deviated. This is the history.

Amogha: He sent them there for conquering?

Prabhupāda: Huh? No. He gave him, that "You take that place."

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, glorify. Trees live for thousands of years, five thousand, six thousand. Fig tree and banyan tree, they do not die.

Madhudviṣa: They must be especially sinful. They get five thousand years as a tree.

Prabhupāda: No, they are most pious. Because you want to live more by science, so they are also living more years. What is the use of such living, like tree? Therefore Bhāgavata says taravo kiṁ na jīvanti. You are trying to live more years by scientific advancement, but do the trees not live for many, many years? What you will gain by that? Suppose you live for three thousand years, what you will gain if you remain ignorant? Better live for a few years and understand that this material world is worse, I have to go to the spiritual world and meet Kṛṣṇa. That knowledge will help you. You live for ten years, but get this knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect life. And what is the use of living like this tree for many thousands of years without any knowledge? (break) ...cars, they have come to botanical garden? No.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is since five thousand years ago or before that. You may say forty millions of years ago as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. But taking it by modern history, in your country, in the Western countries, I have started it since 1966 from New York. The movement is very, very old. But it is started in the Western countries since last seven or eight years.

Journalist: And where did it first start, which country?

Prabhupāda: New York.

Journalist: In New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Journalist: What is your background? Are you from India?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Journalist: What is your age now?

Prabhupāda: I am now just almost complete, seventy-nine. In September I will be eighty.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Journalist: How many years has Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: That I told you, according to the modern history, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there since five thousand years.

Journalist: Nine thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand.

Journalist: Five thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Mm. And before that there was Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement also and that date is... (end)

Morning Walk -- May 31, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago it was composed by Vyāsadeva. (break) ...only for the Juhu Beach so many hotels are being maintained. Even this Holiday Inn, they have also...

Gurukṛpa: Juhu Beach is a big beach.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. (break) ...I told you, in my childhood I was consulting the time table, "What is the fare of Jagannātha Purī and Vṛndāvana?" (chuckles)

Gurukṛpa: You said it was two rupees.

Prabhupāda: No, not two rupees. Jagannātha Purī at that time was four rupees, four annas or one anna. And Vṛndāvana was six rupees.

Gurukṛpa: Six.

Prabhupāda: Six rupees from Calcutta. So I was dreaming "When I get this four rupees or six rupees, I shall go." (break)

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If he... As he likes, if he infects some disease, he must suffer from the disease. Where is his independence? If you infect some disease, infectious disease, then you must suffer from the disease. That is nature's law. So where is your independence? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). It is all described. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so many varieties of life? Because he has associated with a particular type of modes of nature and he has got the body. Without any human sense he has learned to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination. Therefore nature will give the body of a pig. "All right, you eat anything up to stool. Up to stool you can eat." So how can you stop it? And because nature has given this body, he is relishing very good taste from stool. But this body, you cannot relish what is enjoyment in the stool. But because he has no discrimination of food, nature has given him, "All right, you can eat up to stool." Human life is meant for civilization, and they are trying to be naked. So next life will be: "All right, you remain naked standing as tree for five thousand years."

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you want to preach this particular portion and no other portion?

Devotee (1): No. We want to... We want to know if the story has an allegorical meaning rather than a literal translation, or that King Ugrasena who was a man who lived five thousand years ago and had four billion bodyguards, or whether the stories within the Bhāgavatam, apart from some of them being actual, are allegorical stories. Such as the story of Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma chopping off the the eighty-eight...

Prabhupāda: All right. You can give up that portion. You can take other portion.

Devotee (2): We don't mean to give it up.

Devotee (1): We don't mean to give it up.

Devotee (2): We're saying how can we say to them...

Car Conversation from Airport -- July 3, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Three thousand. (break) ...this knowledge is there in the Bhāgavatam, which was written in words five thousand years ago, but the knowledge was known millions and millions of years.

Harikeśa: Some of the scholars say that because Lord Buddha is predicted in the Bhāgavatam, that it proves that the Bhāgavatam was written after Lord Buddha appeared.

Prabhupāda: Buddha said like that?

Harikeśa: The scholars, they say...

Brahmānanda: They say it's not possible to predict a person's appearance.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: It shows the limitation of our scientific knowledge that we don't even know the accurate date of the cosmic manifestation.

Prabhupāda: So far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, you can take it: since five thousand years, when Kṛṣṇa was present, He gave this instruction. But it existed before Kṛṣṇa's instruction. About forty millions of years ago He gave this instruction to the sun-god. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā:

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāha

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

(BG 4.1)

So if we take up the statement of Bhagavad-gītā, then five thousand years ago this was spoken for the second time, and first time it was spoken forty millions of years ago. Therefore it is permanent, not that something new. It is existing eternally. Sometimes we are missing, and sometimes we are accepting, but it is existing eternally.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: And still be complete as He was before.

Prabhupāda: We can see one material example, that the sun, for millions and trillions of years it is distributing sunshine, heat, but still it is full. If it is possible materially, what about the Supreme Lord? Five thousand years or five millions of years the degree of temperature in the sunshine was the same as it is now. If it is materially so possible how much it is possible spiritually?

Prof. Hopkins: Is that... It's difficult for people outside the Kṛṣṇa consciousness group to see what the purpose of the movement is.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prof. Hopkins: It's difficult for people outside the society of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to see what the purpose is. How would you understand the purpose? Simply to make God known? How would you state...

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: No, evolutionary, cycle, the body may change, but every living entity has got a special advantage upon the others.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: What is the advantage of a tree, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: You see how they are standing there for five thousand years. You cannot do it. You cannot do it even for five minutes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually the trees are absolutely necessary for the survival of animals.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. We say nothing is necessary, simply Kṛṣṇa is necessary. That is material conception: "This is necessary. This is necessary." But Kṛṣṇa says, "Nothing is necessary." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You are simply planning and becoming entangled with so-called "necessary."

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The same logic, "Cheerfully be hanged." That's all. As soon as there is some difficult subject, they give up. And they speculate on some nonsense thing. That's all. This is their education. Education means atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛtti, the ultimate solution of all unhappiness. That is education, not that after coming to some extent, "No, you can die happily." And what is duhkha, unhappiness? That is presented by Kṛṣṇa: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). These are your unhappiness. Try to solve it. And that they are carefully avoiding. They cannot stop death, neither birth, nor old age, nor disease. And during the short period of life, birth and death, they are making big, big buildings, and next time he is becoming one rat within the buildings. (laughter) Nature. You cannot avoid the nature's law. As you cannot avoid death, similarly, nature will give you another body. Become a tree in this university. Stand up for five thousand years. You wanted to be naked. Now nobody will object. You stand here naked.

Morning Walk -- July 27, 1975, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Rāmeśvara: And you can drive your car through it.

Jayatīrtha: Redwood tree. Those are the trees that are so old, sometimes five thousand years old.

Prabhupāda: Taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti (SB 2.3.18) . Bhāgavata says that "You are trying to prolong your life. Don't you know that trees live more and more years than yourself?" Taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti. So what is the use of such living? A tree standing for five thousand years, what is the use of such living? Therefore, those who are trying to live for many years, they are being instructed, taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti (SB 2.3.18) . They are also living being. And what is the use of living? First of all, that... For the same purpose, eating, sleeping, mating, and living for five thousand years, ten thousand years, what is the use? Taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti, bhastrāḥ kiṁ na śvasanty uta. (break) This park is very nice. (break) ... śunīcena. We are all trampling. There is no protest. (break) Our man?

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The argument of foolish man—who is caring? Vedic culture when finished?

Yogeśvara: (break) ...five thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years, how He accepted if it is finished? He is more than Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this rascal?

Yogeśvara: Haribol.

Bhagavān: They are willing to take so many material risks, but they are not willing to try spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: That is their fault. That is their foolishness. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore they are called mūḍhas.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out. First of all He spoke that... If you take history of Bhagavad-gītā, then it comes to forty millions of years ago, at least, He spoke Bhagavad-gītā. How do you calculate? The calculation is there. Any intelligent man can calculate because Brahmā's duration of life is mentioned there. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brāhmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). So one yuga means forty-three lakhs of years and multiply it one thousand. That is Brahmā's duration of one day. Now, in one day there are seven Manus. So Vivasvān Manu's age can be calculated—at least forty millions of years ago. So the Bhagavad-gītā is not a new thing. It was spoken five thousand years ago to Arjuna. That was not the first speaking. He says, "I first spoke to Vivasvān, the sun-god." Yes, show him. (Bengali) ...I am manufacturing something. Everything is there. "If you simply follow, a great, wonderful thing will be done." She is now in a position. Simply she has to take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it practically. And that is not very difficult. Just like the Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti... Parjanyād bhavanti bhūtāni. Make this program, immediately.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So you can note down. There are many things, that, that dāmpatye ratim eva hi: "A family life means sex life." And lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. All these symptoms which are now going on, that is foretold five thousand years ago in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Svīkāra eva hi udvāhe: "Marriage will be by agreement." These things are there. That I have...

Indian man: (indistinct-loud static)

Prabhupāda: No, but just like you know in the rainy season there will be heavy rainfall, but you can protect yourself. You can get raincoat, you can get umbrella. Then you will... (break) So you cannot stop the rainy season, but you can protect yourself. (break) ...so many Africans. We have many Africans, devotees.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break) (in car:) ...ments are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam since the last five thousand years, and these people have become civilized for the last three hundred years, and we have to accept their statement or the statement which is made five thousand years at least? At least they discussed or they had some knowledge. You cannot deny that. They're giving description of all the planets, where it is situated. At least they had discussion. So they were uncivilized?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The moon that we see in the sky...

Prabhupāda: The same moon.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That same moon.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: I don’t find. Simply foolishness I accept. And rascal, foolish like you, will believe. (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They argue that five thousand years ago they have no history, so they think that before that time…

Prabhupāda: "They think." That is their rascaldom.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Formerly there was no civilization. Therefore like monkey.

Prabhupāda: "They think." That is their… We don’t "think." We have got millions of years' history. Why we shall think with them, with these rascals? They may think, the rascal. A child may think like something, but a elderly man will not think like that. Because they are thinking like that, we have to think with them?

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: That may be in few cases. Generally the duration of life is reduced. Nobody lives nowadays like his forefather. So where is extension? It is reduced. And what is the extension? In old age the body becomes subjected to so many ailments. What is the use of living with ailments, with toothache and many other things? What is the use of such life? Better die young, in good health, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the use of prolonged life? The prolonged life... The trees are also prolonged life. Does it mean it is happy? They live for five hundred years, five thousand years. Hundred, two hundred years' living for tree is not at all difficult. But they live for thousands of years. So is it very pleasing to live like a tree for many thousands of years? Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: No. How it is possible?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it worthwhile to try to prolong life?

Prabhupāda: It is also condemned. Prolonged life... Suppose you live hundred years and a tree lives five thousand years, ten thousand years. Then what is the use of prolonging life, life like this? Is that very good life?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Standing in one place for ten thousand years? Why should you prolong your life? For suffering? You are suffering, that is your problem, so what is the use of prolonging your life? This is foolishness. What do you gain by prolonging life if you are suffering? Stop suffering. That is wanted. How you can stop suffering? With suffering, prolonging life, what is the benefit?

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: So that you may accept.

Devotee (1): This is what Kṛṣṇa has left here five thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: "That's all right. It doesn't matter. That doesn't matter."

Devotee (1): ...for your benefit, for everyone because you are part of Kṛṣṇa too.

Prabhupāda: That is your saying. You prove that.

Devotee (1): That's not my saying. That's the Supreme Lord's saying.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Indian man or Devotee (2): Like a child has to accept the authority of her mother to know about our father.

Prabhupāda: That is all right, but you give some practical explanation that how earth has come from...

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is... It is most condemned life, the trees. They cannot move one inch. They have to suffer all these natural disturbances. One who is too much sinful, he is condemned to stand up here for five thousand years.

Indian (1): (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Dvaraka, sir. They had a plan to go to Dvaraka.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: You have to take me. You told me you will take me. I am waiting for it.

Bhāgavata: When I was in Dvaraka I stayed at the Birla guesthouse, and they said that any time you come you can stay there in Mr. Birla's room right on the oceanfront, very nice room.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Scholars, they think like that, "Kṛṣṇa is fictitious. This Bhagavad-gītā was imagined," as if Kṛṣṇa speaking and Arjuna hearing, and there was no war as Kurukṣetra. This is their reply. There was no five thousand years.

Dr. Patel: Suppose, sir, it may be like that, as they say, but this is an acme of the knowledge. That's all. Even though it may be fabricated, it is the acme.

Prabhupāda: Acme of the knowledge you are taking, but you don't believe the source of knowledge. You are so acme of the knowledge. You don't believe in the source of the knowledge, so where is knowledge? That is darkness. Tama and jyoti-two things are there. This material world is tama, darkness, because here actually there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is almost absent. And jyoti means there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That we were discussing last night. Taṭastha-śakti. Taṭastha... The jīvas, they are in the marginal position between tama and jyoti.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: About this Kakubh Kapoor Cakra(?), our scientist, Mihila(?), has planned it, and according to the eclipse and sun and the moon eclipse come. That means his science was perfect. Otherwise it would not come at that particular day, time, and...

Prabhupāda: We... Our... Five thousand years ago Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that "As I have heard it, I am explaining." That means time immemorial, the thing is, same thing is coming. There is no change, not that after few days, "No, no. It was wrong. This is now right." Again somebody comes.

Dr. Patel: They are explaining the truth in their own way. That is the change of theory. But the truth is the same.

Prabhupāda: That is the truth of rascaldom, as soon as you change your position.

Dr. Patel: Theory is rascal, but the truth is never rascal.

Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ācāryas... But their paramparā system is very old. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā? No.

Yaśomatī-nandana: They don't accept it as... They do not accept Gītā as spoken by some person Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, do they accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā or not?

Yaśomatī-nandana: They say it's a very nice book of knowledge. They don't want to pursue spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: Then why they become authority?

Yaśomatī-nandana: Yes, that is their rascaldom.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Haṁsadūta: Marx, he studied history from a given point and then he just calculated the consequences.

Prabhupāda: No, that point is not new point. It is already stated five thousand years ago. So what credit he has got? If I say, "Now you are thirty-four years. At the end of hundred years you will die," is that discovery?

Haṁsadūta: No. But that was...

Prabhupāda: Everyone knows it. Everyone knows it.

Haṁsadūta: But for this he's got so much credit because he said this.

Prabhupāda: So he gets credit from the rascals and fools. That's all.

Page Title:Five thousand years (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:06 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=107, Let=0
No. of Quotes:107