So we have to use our intelligence. That is described by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī: prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ, mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ. Mumukṣu, especially the Māyāvādīs, who are after liberation, to merge into the existence of the Supreme, mumukṣu, mokṣa, they, Māyāvāda, they say, "Everything is māyā." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This world is false; only Brahman is reality." But we say that why the jagat, the world should be false if it is coming from the reality? We do not agree with them. We do not accept that this world is false. No. We can say, "It is temporary manifestation." But it is not false. Why it is false? We are living in this house. If somebody, some rascal, says, "It is false," why false? We are utilizing this house. We are utilizing this microphone. We are utilizing the dictaphone. Why it is false? There is sambandha. There is relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Anything material, made of earth, water, fire, air, they are Kṛṣṇa's energies. Therefore there is direct relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And if Kṛṣṇa is reality, why His energy should be false? No. We must know how to utilize it.
Does not agree (Lectures)
Expressions researched:
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Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
So Kṛṣṇa could not say anything. The elder brother has decided. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna to kidnap Subhadrā. Just see how much Kṛṣṇa was affectionate to Arjuna that Arjuna liked also to marry Subhadrā, and Subhadrā also liked, but the elder brother did not agree. So they made a plan that Arjuna kidnap Subhadrā.
This kidnapping was allowed among the kṣatriyas, and fight. That is kṣatriya marriage. Unless there is fight, that marriage is not complete. The red vermillion which we apply, that is kṣatriya principle. After killing the opposite party, the blood will be smeared over the hair of the bride. That is conquer, victory. So in every marriage, Kṛṣṇa had 16,108 wives, and each wife was married by fighting, beginning from Rukmiṇī. Rukmiṇī also, the first wife of Kṛṣṇa, the first queen, when Kṛṣṇa became king of Dvārakā, she was the first queen.
That is the technique. Friendly talks, equal level, He, Kṛṣṇa was talking something and he was replying. So that argument has no end. But when he accepts Him as spiritual master, there is no more argument. One has to accept whatever He says. Therefore he's accepting as spiritual master. After this, Arjuna will never say, "This is wrong, this is, no," or "I don't agree." No. He'll accept. So acceptance of spiritual master means to accept anything, whatever he says. Therefore one has to select a spiritual master whom he can completely surrender. That is the technique. Veda-vākya. Just like in the Vedic injunction, nobody can deny. Similarly, spiritual master is also representative of Veda. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. So similarly, it is just like Vedic injunction. So spiritual master has also got the great duty. He has to instruct the disciple in such a way that he may not be misled, and that is not possible because a spiritual master is he who will simply speak from authoritative sources.
"There was never time when I, you, and all these individual kings or soldiers... It was not that we did not exist in the past." So in the past we existed as individual, and in the present there is no doubt. We are existing as individual. You are my disciple, I am your spiritual master, but you have got your individuality, I have got my individuality. If you don't agree with me, you can leave me. That is your individuality. So if you don't like Kṛṣṇa, you cannot become in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is your individuality. So this individuality continues. Similarly Kṛṣṇa, if He does not like you, He may refuse you Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that because you are following all the rules and regulations, Kṛṣṇa is obliged to accept you. No. If He thinks that "He's nonsense; I cannot accept him," He'll reject you.
So He has got individuality, you have got individuality, everyone has got individuality. Where is the question of impersonalism come? There is no possibility.
Madhudviṣa: She says she does not agree with transmigration of the soul.
Prabhupāda: You may not agree. What you are?
Devotee: This lady fluctuates in her mind too much and there are many other people here who would like to ask questions too. Are there any other questions?
Woman (2): How do you regard suicide, and would there be any exceptional circumstances that might justify it?
Prabhupāda: Suicide is not justified. Suicide is not justified. It is violation of nature's law. Nature gives you a certain type of body to live in it for certain days, and suicide means you go against the laws of nature, you untimely stop the duration of life. Therefore he becomes a criminal. Suicide is criminal even in ordinary state laws. One cannot make suicide.
"We are eternally servant of God; we cannot become God. Better to remain servant of God; that is our happiness."
So those who are in the bodily concept of life, they cannot advance in this real knowledge, that we are eternally servant of God. Our constitutional position is like that. If we do not serve God, we do not agree... We are servant of God, but if we deny that "No, I am not servant," so that means I become servant of māyā. Servant I'll have to remain. That is my constitutional position. So one must first of all understand what is his identity. So this is the beginning of a lesson given by Kṛṣṇa, that "You are lamenting for this body. This is not your identity. This is not your identity. You are wrongly thinking." Just like if your coat is some way or other destroyed, that does not mean that you are destroyed. If your car by accident is broken, that does not mean that you are finished. Sometimes we get accident, that is another thing. But I am not the car. I am not this body, I am not this coat. This is real knowledge.
He is more than Johnson; another man, more than Johnson, like that. But when you reach Śrī Kṛṣṇa by such analytical process, you'll find that nobody is greater, nobody is equal than Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And He says something—we must agree to accept it. (laughs) We must... If we don't agree, that will not be beneficial for us. When a great man says something... And He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is saying that we are all individual persons. We are all individual persons. God is also individual person. It is confirmed in the Vedic literature. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Nityo nityānām. Nitya means eternal. We are all eternal. This is plural number. So amongst all the eternal living entities, He is the chief. This is a definition of God, is given in the... Nityo nitya. Cetanānām, nit..., cetanaś cetanānām: "We are all conscious, conscious beings." So He is the supreme conscious. He is the supreme conscious. Now, of course, there are some yogic schools.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who does not agree? Where is Aravinda? He sometimes does not agree.
Madhudviṣa: He's minding your house.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) All right. What is that?
Viṣṇujana: There are people not here who don't agree, who think God can be realized as a clear light or an abstract (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That is for the less intelligent, less intelligent. Just like from a distant place, if you see that a railway engine is coming, you'll see the light. So a rascal will say, "A light is coming." (laughter) But one who knows, he will say a train is coming. So it is less intelligent. That's all. A rascal will say light is coming. That's all. So they are all rascals. They have no sufficient knowledge. What do you think?
No, the trouble must be there because God has created this world for your enjoyment and for my enjoyment, there therefore must be struggle. Because I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. So why there shall not be trouble? Because everyone, if everyone... Just like in office, if everyone wants to become the proprietor, will not there be confusion and chaos? Do you think the office will go on nicely? Similarly, here, God has given you chance to become master because you wanted, but everyone wants to be master. There is chaos. How there can be harmony when everyone wants to become God? Do you think it is all right? There must be chaos. Here is the position. Everyone in the material world, first of all, they want to become big man, big businessman, big, big this, big that, minister, president, and when everything is failure, then he wants to become God. That is the last snare of māyā. So this is going on. How you can expect peace and prosperity here? That is not possible. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is stated by Kṛṣṇa Himself that this is a place only for misery, but under the influence of māyā, we are accepting all miserable conditions of life as happiness. This is called māyā.
You just try to dovetail your consciousness with My supreme consciousness. That will make you happy." The same thing. As Arjuna did not, wanted to fight, Kṛṣṇa said that "I desire that you should fight." But he did not agree in the beginning. But at the last moment, when Arjuna was inquired, "Now what is your decision," he said that naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat prasādān mayācyuta kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: (BG 18.73) "My dear Lord, now my misgivings, my misunderstanding, is now gone by Your mercy. Now I have decided to fight because You desire." That is the summum bonum of learning. That one should decide what God desires. That's all. That will make his life perfect. He should not desire anything. He should not desire anything. His desiring capacity should not be stopped. Somebody says, "Don't desire; become desireless." It is nonsense. Nobody can be desireless. How he can be desireless?
Anyway, that is a religious details.
But when India was too much addicted for animal slaughtering under the plea of Vedic sacrifice, the Lord Buddha appeared. Why? They misused the Vedic injunctions. They misused the injunctions of the Vedas. So he, he proclaimed, "No, this animal slaughter should be stopped." He did, he did not agree even with the Vedic injunction. Therefore Lord Buddha's preaching was not accepted. It was... Once it was accepted, whole of India accepted. Under the king, under the Emperor Aśoka, the whole of India became Buddhist. But later on, Śaṅkarācārya appeared and he made against them, Vedantists. So India, Buddhist religion from India was practically banished. So these are historical facts.
The real fact is that as soon as the natural sequence of living entities is jeopardized, at that time, non-religious principle, unnatural life, becomes prominent and people become embarrassed.
"My dear Arjuna, the reason, the mission for which I appear is now explained, that I come here to establish the real constitutional position of the living entity. That is My mission. Now, when I come with some mission there are some activities. There are some activities." So there are some philosophers. They do not agree to accept that God comes as incarnation. They do not believe in this theory. They say that "Why God shall come to this rotten world?" That is their vision.
But here, from the Bhagavad-gītā, we understand that God comes. We shall always remember that we are reading Bhagavad-gītā, and whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, we have to, at least, we have to accept that. Otherwise, there is no question of reading this Bhagavad-gītā. Here the Lord says that "I am, I am present here as incarnation, and this is My mission." And as He comes with a mission, there are some activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not agree. Therefore your consciousness, different; my consciousness, different. When we agree, then it is the same. When we come to the point of agreement, then it is the same.
Guest (2): It's the same, even we disagree because disagreement is a part of the same supreme soul.
Prabhupāda: Then you mean to say disagreement, agreement, the same thing?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then I cannot follow you.
Guest (2): That's why I'm trying to understand. The supreme consciousness is all consciousness, even disagreement.
Prabhupāda: Supreme consciousness... Just like... You try to understand your consciousness. You are conscious? You agree? Are you conscious what is going on in me? (end)
The present age is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means the age of quarrel and disagreement. Nobody agrees with any other man. Everyone has got his own theory; everyone has got his own philosophy. So therefore it is called Kali-yuga. And if I don't agree with you, you fight with me. Therefore it is called Kali-yuga. So this is the only method recommended in this age: kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Simply by chanting the holy name of God, one can attain perfect self-realization, which was attained by the yoga system in the Satya-yuga, which was attained in the Tretā-yuga by performing great sacrifices, and which was performed in the Dvāpara-yuga by large-scale temple worship. That thing can be attained by the simple method hari-kīrtanāt. Hari means the Supreme Personality of Godhead; kīrtanāt—by glorifying Him.
We are individual persons. It is not very difficult to understand. Every one of us, individual. We think individually. We dress individually. We have got our egotism, individual. Everything... I don't agree with you; you don't agree with me. Voluntarily sometimes we agree. That means every one of us has individuality. This is called being, "I am."
Similarly, God is also being like us, but He is Supreme Being. That is the difference between God and me. I am also being, you are also being, but we are not Supreme Being. We are under some control. But God is not under control. He is the controller, but He is never controlled. (aside:) Make it louder. That is explained in the Vedic literature, the definition of God. The definition of God is given there, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. The Supreme Being is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And He is... Vigraha means He has form. He is person, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. But His person, His form, is different from our form, our present form.
This is going on. Your position is to become servant, but in māyā, in illusion, you are thinking, "I am master." Therefore the best thing is that instead of becoming at last the servant of a dog, just immediately become servant of God. That is your success of life. And if you don't agree, then you have to serve up to the dog, up to the cat. Many Europeans, Americans, they have no children, but they keep one cat, one dog, to serve. You see? But you have to serve because you are meant for that.
Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy is that. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). That is our permanent situation, we are servant of God. I have explained yesterday that we are part and parcel of God. Now, as part and parcel of God, what is our duty? The example I have given. Just like the finger is the part and parcel of my body. So what is the duty? As soon as I say, "Finger, please come here," it comes. "Finger, come here. Do this, do that, pick up." This is finger's business. A finger cannot remain independent. Or if the finger cannot give the service properly, then it is diseased. Similarly, our material condition means we are in diseased condition.
So in this way, when they came back, one day the old man proposed to his eldest son that "Your youngest sister should be married with that boy. That I have promised." Oh, the eldest son of that old man become very angry: "Oh, how you have selected that boy to be husband of my sister? He's unfit. He's poor man. He's not so educated. Oh, this cannot take place." He did not agree. Then the mother of the girl, he(she) came to the old man: "Oh, if you get my daughter married with that boy, then I shall commit suicide." Now the old man is perplexed. Then, one day, the boy was anxious that "The old man promised before the Deity. Now he is not coming." So he... One day he came to his house: "Well, my dear sir, you promised before the Lord, Kṛṣṇa, and you are not fulfilling your promise? How is that?" The old man was silent because he was praying to Kṛṣṇa that "I am now perplexed. If I persist in offering this daughter to this boy, now there will be great trouble in my family." So he was silent.
What is my spiritual work. Sanity, that is sanity. I cannot be void. I cannot lose my individuality and personality. That is nonsense. How can I? So long I am sitting in this body... Or take this same crude example. So long I am sitting on the car, I am displaying so much individuality, and so much discrimination. As soon as there is red signal, I stop my car. There is blue signal, green signal, I start my car. I'm using my consciousness. I'm working. And, simply by getting down from the car, I lose everything. I become void? What is this nonsense? No.
There is neither voidness, nor impersonalism. The Bhagavad-gītā does not agree to that. In the Second Chapter you have read it, that Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa says that, "Arjuna, Myself, yourself, and all these persons who have come here to fight with one another, they were individual selves before, they are individual selves now, and they will continue to be individual selves in the future. So don't be mad that you shall not fight. Their, I mean to say, identity, spiritual identity, will continue."
Now it is our choice whether we want to become a devotee or whether we want to remain a demon. That is my choice. Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up this demonic engagement and surrender to Me." That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. But if you do not agree with Kṛṣṇa's desire, if you want to enjoy your own desire, then also, Kṛṣṇa is also pleased, He will supply you the necessities. But that is not very good. We should agree to Kṛṣṇa's desires. We should not allow our desires, demonic desires, to grow. That is called tapasya. Our desires we should sacrifice. That is called sacrifice. We should only accept Kṛṣṇa's desire. That is the instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna's desire was not to fight, but Kṛṣṇa's desire was to fight, just the opposite. Arjuna ultimately agreed to Kṛṣṇa's desire: "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73): "Yes, I will act according to Your desire." That is bhakti.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Because they went to the church with some motive and the motive was not fulfilled, they became atheist. Therefore this type of devotion is not pure devotion. Motive... God is not meant for supplying your orders because He takes service. He does not serve anybody. So if we want to bring God for our service, we may be disappointed because God does not agree to serve anybody. He is the master, supreme master. How you can expect that God will come to serve you? But God supplies everyone's necessity, but if you want more than your necessity, that is a different thing. That may not be supplied by God.
Therefore we should not approach God with a motive. We should simply approach God to love Him, that's all, without any return. That is pure devotion.
The atheist class of men, they do not agree to accept that this material world is created by God. They give some reason of their own way of thinking, and most of the arguments are "perhaps like this, perhaps like this, perhaps like this." What is this nonsense, "perhaps"? Is that science? "Perhaps"? So they have no sufficient reason that there is no creator. In everything, we find there is a creator. Anything you take. Take for example this table. There is a creator. Somebody has manufactured it. Or this microphone, somebody has created it. Anything you take, you have to find out some creator. And such a vast, gigantic thing, going on so nicely and punctually... The sun is rising punctually, the moon is rising punctually, the fortnight is going on, the season is coming punctually—everything. Why there should be no creator or no superintendent? That answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence." So if you accept this, then the whole problem is solved. But if we don't accept it, then we have to speculate. But we never to come to the right conclusion, how this creation began. That is not possible to understand by such way.
Yes. Perfect society is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the center... Just like in a family if you accept the head of the family, your father, as the guiding principle, the family's happy. And if you disrupt with the opinion of the father, somebody goes away, somebody's not happy, the family is disturbed. Similarly, if you agree with the instruction of Kṛṣṇa and God, the whole human society will be peace and prosperity. If you don't agree, disagree, don't agree, disagree, then it is disruption. The instruction is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You take it, you agree to it, and you become happy in this world and next world.
And there are many avatāras, they are mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: Matsya-avatāra, Vāmana-avatāra, Kūrma-avatāra, and Varāha-avatāra, Vāmana-avatāra, Nṛsiṁha-avatāra, and Paraśurāma-avatāra, Balarāma-avatāra, Buddha-avatāra. Buddha is also avatāra. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We do not agree with Buddha philosophy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta' nāstika. Buddha philosophy is atheism: "There is no God." He says "There is no God." So that is atheism. And especially... That there is no God, there is God—that is not the point. His point was to stop the animal-killing. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Kṛṣṇa became very, very, sympathetic with the poor animals. "Oh, in the name of yajña, these rascals, rogues, are killing so many animals." Therefore He came as Buddha-avatāra. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. So Vaiṣṇava knows that "Here is Lord Buddha. He's Kṛṣṇa's avatāra," although we don't take his philosophy, because Buddha refused to accept Vedic authority. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam.
The scientists, they say the stars are all suns, but according to our information, in the Bhagavad-gītā: nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī. Śaśī means the moon is just like so many stars. So what is the position of the moon? Moon is bright being reflection of the sun. So according to our calculation the sun is one. But the modern scientists say that there are so many suns, the stars. We don't agree. This is only one universe. There are many suns, innumerable, but in each and every sun, every universe, there is one sun, not many. So this universe, what we are experiencing, experiencing by seeing imperfectly... We do not know. We cannot count how many stars are there, how many planets are there. It is impossible. So the material things which is before us, still we are unable to count, to understand, and what to speak of the Supreme Lord who created this universe? That is not possible.
"Now you can take this body. You can use it as you...," nobody will like. Why? The same beautiful lying on the... Why don't you take it now? You were after her so many... "No. It is no, (laughing) no more useful. No more useful." Everyone knows it.
There is a story that one beautiful woman was hunted by another man. So he was wooing, canvassing, but she was chaste lady. But... She did not agree. But that man was after her. So one day she said, "All right, you come to me three days after. I will accept you." So on the third day he (she) took purgative, a very strong purgative, and passed stools whole day and night, and he (she) kept those all those stools, stools and vomit and everything, kept in a very good preserver. Then third day, when the man came, she was sitting, and he was asking, "Where is that woman?" "No, I am the same woman. You don't recognize me?" "No, no, you are... She... She was so beautiful, and you, you are ugly." (laughter) "No, no, I am the same. You do not know."
Asura means demon, and varya, varya means the first-class. (laughter) He is not addressing his father as "My dear father," "My dear best of the atheists." Therefore his father was very angry, "This child, he talks with me on equal level and does not fear me. Kill him!" Asura. He is prepared to kill his son even, if he does not agree with him. You see. We are also prepared. If one is not devotee, if he is son, we can kill him. The same. But our is for Kṛṣṇa, and the asuras is for himself. That is the difference. He wants to do everything for his personal satisfaction, and we want to do everything for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. That is the difference. The same propensities are there, but when it is applied for Kṛṣṇa, then it is purified, and when it is applied for personal self, it is impure. This is the difference.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "The best education is that which makes one anxiety-free." That is best education.
Because it is stated, bhūri-dakṣiṇān, and vast amount of money required for distribution in charity. Then you can perform aśvamedha-yajña. Similarly, there is gomedha-yajña. Aśvamedha-yajña was to send the horse with flag, that "Such and such king is the emperor of the whole world." So if some king in some state, he does not agree that "He is emperor," he will capture the horse, "I don't agree, I don't accept." Then there will be fight, "You have to accept." In this way there will be sacrifice.
So Mahārāja Parīkṣit was the emperor of the whole world, whole this planet. So he performed three times. Now, that means three times he challenged, "If there is any dispute, any objection of my becoming emperor?" This is aśvamedha-yajña. "If you have got any objection, then I will make you obliged to accept me. Otherwise, if you accept, that's all right. You remain in your state. Give me tax."
Sometimes the Māyāvādī philosophers, they also take the living entities within this material world as līlā. That is not līlā. Līlā refers to the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Never... Nobody says that the living entity has come in this material world for līlā. At least, the Vaiṣṇava philosophers do not agree that. It is contradictory. Kṛṣṇa said that "When I come..."
- yadā yadā hi dharmasya
- glānir bhavati bhārata
- abhyutthānam adharmasya...
- (BG 4.7)
We should not accept Kṛṣṇa's coming within this material world and our coming in this material world as the same process. Kṛṣṇa comes as He is. He does not change. And because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, almighty, even if He comes within this material world, the material qualities do not affect Him. That is īśanam, īśanam.
That is the position. It is... These are their daily affairs. These are their daily affairs in Western countries. And if you want to make them stop these things, they will think that "This man is lunatic." But by Kṛṣṇa's grace these boys, these girls, they agreed. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. I did not expect that they will agree. In India they do not agree, and they are accustomed from childhood, from boyhood. So how they will... But Kṛṣṇa's grace is so nice, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy is so great, that they agreed, and they are pushing on this movement on this principle.
So why? This is due to the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Patita-pāvana. He can deliver the Jagāi-Mādhāi. And what is the process? The process is:
- harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
- kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
If people are simply induced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... Just see. Even a child, he is taking part. It is natural. There is no distinction between black and white, no question of language, nothing. You see practically. There is white child, black child. They do not know how to speak, tut they are dancing and chanting.
We are in the duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), but under the influence of māyā we are thinking we are living very very happily, or we not trying to solve the question. No. This kind of solution will not help you, because you have to die. Whatever you make solution, Kṛṣṇa says, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). If you don't agree to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, "All right, make your arrangement. But at the time of death I shall come and take away everything whatever you have got." Mrtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. Then your bank balance, your skyscraper building, your country, your family, your good name—everything will be taken away. And you have to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir. Now whatever assessment we're given in this life, everything will be taken away, and we'll be forced to accept one body which you cannot deny.
Guest (4): Would you agree that God is just a concept? If you do not agree to that, please explain it logically.
Prabhupāda: Why shall I agree, God is only concept?
Guest (4): Because I want it logically.
Prabhupāda: You do not know logic. You have to learn logic.
Guest (4): But I still would like you to explain it logically.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but you have to learn how to know it. There is master. There is master. Just like you cannot prove logically that without father there is a child. This is no logic.
Guest (4): Not without logic.
Prabhupāda: This is no logic. There cannot be any child without father. Therefore if anyone thinks that without father there can be child, he is animal. He has no logic.
So Ṛṣabhadeva recommends that if you want mukti, if you want to come out of the entanglement of bodily concept of life and mental concept of life, then mahat-sevā: associate with mahātmās. Mahat. Mahat means who are not crippled, who are broad-minded. Mahat-sevā. You have to serve him. In the... One Vaiṣṇava ācārya, he says, chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava-sevā nistāra pāyeche kebā. If you do not agree to serve mahat... That is the Vedic injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). This is the injunction. So mahat-sevā, the same thing. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram. Dvāram means the way, the gate, the gateway. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ (SB 5.5.2). If you want to be free from this entanglement...
It is very great shackle, repetition of birth and death, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). One should understand this implication, how we are implicated. We are thinking, "Now I am very happy."
Everyone is individual. But the purpose is how to love Kṛṣṇa. That is formless. There is no disagreement in that purpose. The gopīs are trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, the cowherd boys are satisfying, trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, mother Yaśodā is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, Nanda Mahārāja is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. The whole center is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That oneness is required. Not that I become one with Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Therefore śāstra says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ: (SB 10.2.32) when they do not agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, then they come back in this material world, again they begin to serve the society, to serve the country, to serve the daridra-nārāyaṇa, to serve this, that, that, that, that. So āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ, even they go to the Brahman effulgence, because they do not agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ they again come back to serve the society, friendship, and daridra-nārāyaṇa, so on, so on, so on.
So the atheist class men, they say openly they don't believe in God. That is honest. And those who have taken the shelter of Vedas and talking of God as armless, legless, and headless, and earless, they are saying the same thing. Vedāśraya nāstika-vāda bauddha ke adhika. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika: "Persons who do not agree with the Vedic authority..." He called them nāstika. As the Mussulman, they say one who does not believe in the Koran, he is kafir, and Christian, one who do not believe in the Bible, they are called heathens, similarly, according to our Vedic civilization, anyone who does not accept the authority of Vedas, he is called atheist. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Buddha philosophy, they do not accept the authority of Vedas, although Lord Buddha is accepted as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. But for the time being, he did not accept the authority of Veda. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam.
No. First of all... Just like there is some gentlemanly behavior: even if you are angry on some person, but you do not show your anger; you talk with him. Similarly, actually these persons are demons, but because we are preacher, we are preaching, if we simply become angry and cannot convince him, that means imperfect preacher. You see? You are... Basically you are angry. That's all. "I don't agree with them; neither we have business." But because we are preacher, so if I simply become angry, then my preaching work will be stopped. Do you follow? The anger is there, but because we are preacher, we have to... Just like politicians. They are angry upon the enemy, but sometimes, by diplomatic means, they take their work from the enemies. You see? Not that they show the anger always. Similarly, when you go to preaching, first of all try to convince him that "How you become God? What is your definition of God?" You simply ask, "What do you mean by 'God,' that you are claiming to be God? If you come under that definition, then you are God."
Sarva-dharmān parityajya māṁ ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "This is the most confidential part of knowledge. Don't be entangled with this pavarga. Take shelter of Me." So this is calling Arjuna. So Prahlāda Mahārāja expecting, "When the Lord will call me?" That is real mercy. You cannot call God, or Kṛṣṇa, "Please come to me and save me." Kṛṣṇa is not your servant; He does not agree to be your servant. But when He's pleased, He says, He calls you, "Please come and surrender unto Me." Therefore we must expect, "When the master will call me?" Don't try to see God, but act in such a way that God will call you, "Please come here." That is wanted. That is bhakti, not that "O God, please come. I will see you." Why God will come to see you? He is very busy. What you have done that you want to see God? If you say, "O Indira Gandhi, please come here. I'll see you," she will come? Be qualified, and she will see you. Similarly, don't try... This is not bhakti. Nacia nacia aire gopāla.(?) No. Gopāla is not anyone's servant that He'll come dancing and dancing.
So Draupadī was inquiring from each and every wife of Kṛṣṇa. Not all of them. It is impossible, sixteen thousand. At least the principal queens, beginning from... What is the end called?(?) Rukmiṇī, yes. So every one of them were describing their marriage ceremony, that "My..." Rukmiṇī explained that "My father wanted to hand over me to Kṛṣṇa, but my elder brother, he did not agree. He wanted to get me married with Śiśupala. So I did not like this idea. I wrote Kṛṣṇa a private letter, that 'I have dedicated my life to You, but this is the situation. Please come and kidnap me.' So in this way Kṛṣṇa kidnapped me and made me His maidservant." The queen's daughter, king's daughter... Everyone of them were king's daughter. They were not ordinary person daughter. But they wanted to become maidservant of Kṛṣṇa. This is the idea, to become servant and to become maidservant. This is ideal of human civilization. The every woman should try to become maidservant of her husband, and every man should try to become the hundred times servant of Kṛṣṇa.
This rascal must know it clearly that there cannot... By your manufacturing some League of Nation or United Nation, it is not possible. In the New York we have seen the United Nation, and every year a flag is increasing—another flag, another flag, another flag. Where is "united"? Increasing of flags. That means disunity. "I don't agree with you. We don't want to remain with you. We must have Pakistan. We don't want to remain with Hindustan." So "All right." "We don't want this. We don't want this"—this is fighting, going on, sva-para-vairam. This is the condition of this material world. And we must suffer the threefold miseries. So where is happiness? But because we are illusioned by the external energy, therefore we think that "We are making good arrangement to live peacefully, and we shall live peacefully." Where is peace? You have to die. You don't want to die; you have to die. You don't want disease; you must suffer from disease. You don't want to become old man; you must become old man. So where is your happiness? This is all foolishness. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, hanteti pāracara pīpṛhi mūḍham: "We are rascals, fools, so we are suffering in this way. Kindly save us."
They will bring horoscope and calculate astronomically, "What is the symptoms of this boy? What is the symptoms of this girl? Whether they will be peaceful in married life?" They calculated, and the parents would see in what kind of family the girl is born, and what kind of boy, the family he's born. So many things. If they do not agree, the parents of the girl and the boy, then there is no marriage. Still, in India... At least, I was also married, and some of my children, they were also married. But this system in India is still followed. The parents, they select the suitable boy and the suitable girl. The primary aim is that they may live very peacefully. There may not be unnecessarily disturbance in their family life. That was the aim. But in the Kali-yuga it is said dāmpatye, selection of husband and wife, will depend on agreement. That's all. "I like you; you like me." That's all. Finished. Dāmpatye abhirucir hetuḥ. Abhiruciḥ. Because the boy likes the girl. And suppose the parents do not like? That will be taken, "The girl likes, so that's it." That's all.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Therefore by simple studying, without surrendering yourself to the spiritual master, you'll find all these contradictions and you'll be bewildered. Śrutayo vibhinnā. They are not vibhinnā. But to our limited knowledge, sometimes they appear as vibhinnam, different. Śrutayo vibhinnaṁ nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And you won't find a philosopher who does not agree, who does not disagree with our philosophers.
Therefore dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow the footsteps of great ācāryas. That is the way. These mahājanas are described in the śāstra like Lord Brahma, Lord Śiva, svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilaḥ kumāro manuḥ (SB 6.3.20). They are all mentioned. So you follow any one of these great personalities, Brahmā... Brahmā is the greatest personality within this universe, and he has got his sampradāya which is known as Brahma-sampradāya.
Pradyumna: " 'Rareness of Pure Devotional Service.' In the preliminary phase of spiritual life there are different kinds of austerities, penances and similar processes for attaining self-realization. However, even if an executor of these processes is without any material desire, he still cannot achieve devotional service. And aspiring by oneself alone to achieve devotional service is also not very hopeful because Kṛṣṇa does not award devotional service to merely anyone. Kṛṣṇa can easily offer a person material happiness or even liberation, but He does not agree very easily to award a person engagement in His devotional service."
Prabhupāda: This is very confidential. To attain Kṛṣṇa's service, that is not so easy. You can get liberation—if you want from Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa can give very easily—or any material opulence. But to give engagement in devotional service, that requires very sincerity. As it is stated by Rūpa Gosvāmī, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11). People, generally, go to temple and churches for mitigating some material wants. Ārto arthārthī. Jijñāsī jñānī ārto arthārthī. Generally, people go to Kṛṣṇa to mitigate some material distresses, ārto, or one who is in need of money. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to Kṛṣṇa, he went to worship Kṛṣṇa under the instruction of his mother in the forest with a desire to achieve the kingdom of his father or better, better kingdom than his father. That was his aspiration.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
That is life. No mill, no slaughterhouse, no motorcar. You see? No skyscraper building. Here see. So this is another philosophy, another philosophy: simple life, simple life with Kṛṣṇa. Simple life we can live still, but we do not agree. If we live simple life, people will criticize, "Oh, this is primitive, primitive. What you have made advancement?" But they have no sense. Anyway... So if we really want relief from this materialistic way of life, then we should take shelter of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His saṅkīrtana movement. Then our misunderstanding of existence will be cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni (CC Antya 20.12). And we have created a civilization which is blazing fire, blazing fire. Everyone, all politicians, even ordinary citizens, they are now suffering. The politicians cannot give them enough food. They simply take vote, and the price of foodstuff is increasing. This is a very precarious condition.
This is the position. One should present himself to the spiritual master, not that... We have to first of all select spiritual master. The selection is required. Because as soon as you accept one spiritual master, you cannot say that "I don't agree with you." No. That you cannot say. Then it is useless, simply waste of time. First of all you have to select a person who is actually representative. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī is representative of, I mean to say, Lord Caitanya. Just like Arjuna is representative of Kṛṣṇa, because he's directly receiving instruction from Kṛṣṇa, and he's assimilating it; therefore, he is representative. So this is the paramparā system. So we have to select a person who is actually representative of the Supreme. Then we have to surrender, and then we can... Of course, before (indistinct) and do not understand, we must put our questions, then the procedure is nice.
A person who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no problem. Now how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Lord Caitanya says, sādhu-śāstra-kṛpā: "One can become Kṛṣṇa conscious by the mercy of saintly devotees and by the mercy of the scriptures." These two things are recommended. Not that fools, as they are thinking, "I can..., I can think myself. I don't agree with the śāstra. I don't agree with the spiritual master. I don't agree with scriptures. I have got my independent opinion." He is fool number one, rascal number one. One who says like that, you'll at once take him that he's fool, rascal, anything. You have to take shelter of sādhu, guru and śāstra. Sādhu means saintly persons, those who have got all those qualities. (aside:) Where is that paper? Are you using that paper which has been supplied to you? Good qualification of devotees? What are those? Can you say, any of you? Where is that paper?
So Kṛṣṇa says like that. The only reason is because duṣkṛtina mūḍhā māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuri-bhāvam... Therefore, in spite of all evidences from the śāstras, they'll not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, Personality of Godhead. That's it. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja requested his father so many times, but still, he did not agree that there is God. (break) But he agreed there is God when he was killed by God. Yes. That you cannot escape. Then you'll see God: "Here is God." The asuras, they'll never accept God, but when they are killed by God, they understand that "Yes, there is God." That is the difference between asuras and devas. The devas, they accept God while living, and the asuras accept God by being killed. That's all. And who can escape killing? Is there any scientist, is there any philosopher, any great man who can stop being killed by the cruel death? Is there any man? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). "I am mṛtyu."
Festival Lectures
So if we actually meditate upon our own constitution, then why we should conclude that God is impersonal? I am person. I am individual. I have got my individual opinion. I do not agree with others. Why? Because I am individual. You do not agree with me, I do not agree with you. Why? Because we are all individuals. So why God should be not individual? He is also individual. That is the statement in the Vedas.
- nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām
- eko bahūnāṁ (yo) vidadhāti kāmān
- (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)
Nitya, nitya means eternal. We are eternal form. We change our body. We don't die. As we are changing daily, every moment changing body, so the final change means accept another body. This is also accepting another body, but imperceptibly. The change is so quick. Just like in the cinema spool there are so many pictures changing, but it is changing so quickly that we are seeing one picture moving. So that is our ignorance. But actually there are thousands of pictures changing in a moment, and you see that one picture is moving.
That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ordinary living be... He is complete; we are not complete. We are incomplete, fragmental portion of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we must be controlled by Kṛṣṇa. If we do not agree to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa, then we shall be controlled by the material energy, this bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Actually, we are spiritual energy. We should voluntarily agree to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa. That is devotional service. That is devotional service. We are spiritual energy, and Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Spirit. So if we agree to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa, then we are promoted to the spiritual world. If we agree. Kṛṣṇa does not interfere with your little independence. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Kṛṣṇa say to Arjuna, "Whatever you like, you can do." That independence we have got.
He is the Supreme Personality of God, but the rascals they think that "Because Rāma and Kṛṣṇa has appeared like one of us, He is a man, He's an ordinary man." This is the version of the rascals. That Rāma, especially there is a class who are known as Ārya-samājīs. They do not agree that the Supreme Person can, Supreme God can appear as Rāma and Kṛṣṇa. They do not know that although He appeared as one of us in the form of human body, He is not a human being. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore it is called rāmākhya, māyā mānuṣya hari. He is the Hari... Hari means the Supreme Personality of Godhead who can give you all pleasure, taking all your miserable condition. He is Hari.
That description is given here. And Yamunā, out of His fear, she agreed to the proposal of Balarāma. And the next incarnation is Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha, He decried the Vedic principles. Therefore He is calculated as atheist. Anyone who does not agree with the Vedic principles, he is considered as atheist. Just like one who does not believe in the Bible, they are called heathens, similarly, those who do not accept the Vedic principles, they are called atheists. So Lord Buddha although incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, He said that "I do not believe in Vedas." What was the reason? The reason was to save the poor animals. At that time people were sacrificing the poor animals under the plea of Vedic sacrifice. So demonic persons, they want to do something under the protection of authority. Just like a big lawyer takes the protection of the lawbook and he makes the law unlawful. Similarly, the demons are so intelligent that they take advantage of scriptural injunction and do all nonsense. So these things were going on. In the name of Vedic sacrifice, they were killing animals like anything.
Initiation Lectures
Prabhupāda: They have no idea. They say that we can imagine an idea. According to impersonalists, they say sādhakānām hitārthaya brahmaṇo rūpa kalpanaḥ. Because we cannot concentrate our mind in impersonal therefore they say, "Imagine some form." They think that Kṛṣṇa is imagination. Yes. (laughter) That is their Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa was personally present and He killed all the demons. Still, these demons says imagination. That is demonic. Therefore we do not agree with them.
Dayānanda: "In other words, impersonalists cannot have any faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead and they prefer to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence. In the Śrīmad-Bhagavatam we do not find any mention of ekaṇḍa sannyāsa. This tridaṇḍa sannyāsa is accepted therefore as standard. Lord Caitanya accepts Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the supreme authority. Under these circumstances, persons who accept Lord Caitanya as ekaṇḍi sannyāsī are mistaken.
General Lectures
Similarly, originally, as spirit soul, our consciousness is uncontaminated, but due to our association with the matter at the present moment, our consciousness is contaminated. Therefore we have got so many varieties of consciousness. Disagreements between one person to another is due to this contaminated consciousness. I think some way; you think otherwise. Therefore we do not agree. But originally, your consciousness and my consciousness were one. And what is that one? That conscious, pure consciousness, is "God is great, and I am His eternal servant." That is pure consciousness. As soon as we want to imitate or artificially want to become one with God, immediately the contamination begins.
Do you remember? Huh? I may repeat that story again, that one girl was very beautiful, and one boy was after him (her). But in India the boys and girls are not allowed to mix freely unless they are husband and wife. So this girl was married, but she was not very rich. But that boy was very rich and he was after her. He was always proposing her. And she became perplexed, that "He is rich man. If I don't agree, then he may do some harm to my husband, to me." So she made a plan that "All right. I agree to your proposal. You come to my house in such and such night. I'll be engaged with you." Oh, he was very... In the meantime, (s)he took some purgative pill, strong. So for six, seven days, she simply purged out all the beauty in vomiting and in passing stool. So those vomits and stools were kept in two pots. And naturally, if you pass stool for one day, your feature becomes immediately ugly. That is a fact. So she passed stool and vomiting seven days. Naturally, she became very ugly.
So actually, although we have got independence, we have got consciousness, we have got power of thinking, of understanding, but it is limited. Therefore we don't agree with one another. However I may be big philosopher, I may be very big philosopher, very logician, but as soon as another big logician, another big philosopher comes, he defeats me. That is the way. And every philosopher, every logician is trying to defeat your theory, as you are trying to defeat others' theories. This is going on. So as Śrīman Janārdana said, the knowledge which you are searching in different ways, that is impossible to come to the conclusion. Because we are searching with... However I may accept this method or that method or that method, but accepting the method means employing my senses. But the senses are imperfect. Either I accept this or that, I have to work with my senses. There are no other instruments. So when senses are imperfect, so whatever method you accept, that will be imperfect. Then which method will be perfect? That method will be perfect, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). When Kṛṣṇa from within yourself will give you right direction, then you'll come to the ultimate destination. Otherwise, whatever, however a great philosopher, scientist, or anything you may be, you'll simply hover on the material, mental plane. That's all.
When you are being gradually advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the action of yogamāyā. And when you are gradually forgetting Kṛṣṇa, that is the action of mahāmāyā. Māyā is acting upon you. The one is dragging you, and one is pushing you opposite way. Yogamāyā. So, just like the example, that you are always under the laws of government. You cannot deny. If you say, "I don't agree to abide by the laws of government," that is not possible. But when you are a criminal, you are under the police laws, and when you are gentleman, you are under the civil laws. The laws are there. In any situation, you have to obey the laws of government. If you remain as a civilized citizen, then you are always protected by the civil law. But as soon as you are against the state, the criminal law will act upon you. So the criminal activities of law is mahāmāyā, threefold miseries, always. Always putting in some sort of misery. And the civil department of Kṛṣṇa, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. You simply go on increasing the, I mean to say, depth of the ocean of joy.
That is the effect of mantra. So this mantra, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is called the mahā-mantra. Mahā-mantra means the greatest of all mantras. And this is the only suitable mantra for this age. This age is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means the age of disagreement. Nobody agrees. Even husband, wife does not agree, what to speak of others. The father, son does not agree. Nobody agrees with anyone. This is the age like that. So in this age of disagreement you cannot say that this type of religion is nice, that type of religion is nice. That is finished now. You have to take this mantra: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And you'll find it that very soon you are coming to the light.
Father is always ready to give son all protection. That is natural. So we are all sons of God. We simply surrender to Him and the business finished. Then where is the mystical and this or that? There is nothing secret. So simply one has to agree. But if the rascal son does not agree: "Oh, why shall I surrender unto Him? I shall remain independent," all right, you remain independent. You remain and suffer. So there is no mystical. Everything is clear.
(reading:) "ISKCON members speak knowingly of happiness. Don't followers of Kṛṣṇa consciousness ever get angry?" Yes. They can get angry. Why not? They're very much angry to the nondevotees: "You rascal! Why you have not, are not surrendering yourself to God? You rascal." Yes. We are angry. This anger is service of Kṛṣṇa. How can I give up anger? But we use anger in a different way, not for our sense gratification: "Why you have not paid me such and such money?"
There are many nice stories... Of course, our time is very short. Still, I wish to narrate one short story, that one man, one boy, was attracted by a beautiful girl. So the girl does not agree, and the boy is persistent. So in India, of course, the girls, they keep their chastity very strict. So the girl was not agreeing. So she said, "All right, I agree. After one week you come." She appointed, "Such and such time, you come." So the boy was very glad. And the girl took some purgative throughout the seven days, and she was passing stool, day and night, and vomiting, and she kept all these vomits and stool in a nice pot. So when the appointed time came, the boy came, and the girl was sitting on the door. The boy inquired, "Where is that girl?" She said, "I am that girl." "No, no. You are not. You are so ugly. She was so beautiful. You are not that girl." "No, I am that girl, but I have now separated my beauty in a different pot."
That is the technique of this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that is being experienced by the students, those who are sincerely doing it without any offense.
So this is the simplest method, and Lord Caitanya therefore recommended, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. In this, in this age... This age is called Kali. Kali means the age of disagreement. Nobody agrees. Nobody agrees. I don't agree with you; you don't agree with me. I quarrel with you; you quarrel with me. Everyone thinks that he is independent, he is God or he is everything. But he is dependent in every step. But still, he's proud of becoming God. So these nonsense things are going on. Of course, this is a process of spiritual understanding, ekatvena bahudhā pṛthaktvena bahudhā viśvato-mukham, that "I am God," whether "I" means this body or "I" means this mind, or there is something "I" else than this body and mind. Therefore meditation required. Accepting that you are God, now find out "I." Now what is that "I"? Is that "I" this body or this, that "I" the mind, or is that "I" the intelligence?
Everyone is trying to be the lord of all I survey. That is competition. Why I want to become the lord of all I survey? Because I want to gratify my senses to the greatest extent. This is going on. But actually our position is not to lord it over. Our position is to be lorded by the Lord. That is our position, actually. If you don't agree to be predominated by the Supreme Lord, then you shall be predominated by other agent, other energy, the material energy. I met one great professor in Moscow. The subject matter was freedom, Communism. So my last question was that "You people, Communists, you have surrendered to Lenin, and we have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Then where is the difference? You have selected a personality like Lenin or Stalin or Marx. We have selected a personality, Kṛṣṇa. Now, so far the principle of surrender is concerned, it is there in Communism and our Vaiṣṇavism. Now it has to be seen whether Kṛṣṇa is good or Lenin or good. That is a different question."
Indian guest: No, I fully agree with your interpretation of Bhāgavata, but the comparison between Darwin's discoveries and what is mentioned in Bhāgavata, I don't agree with that. It is already mentioned in Bhāgavata, but Swamijī, you are from a different point of view. So...
Prabhupāda: No, that is a wrong theory. Therefore we say. That is a wrong theory. Darwin is studying this body. He does not know. He has no information of the soul; therefore his knowledge is imperfect. His theory is imperfect. It is a long subject matter. If you want to discuss, you come. We shall discuss. It is a wrong theory. That is not scientific advancement. Science means it must be correct. That is science. If science is theory, that is not science. So Darwin is advocating his theory, "May be like this, perhaps like this." This "perhaps," "maybe," is not science. This is only suggestion. We have to deal with the facts. That is science.
Similarly, in the past also we are existing, and in the future also we shall exist in the same way. As you are individual souls, we are assembled together for understanding something. Similarly, every individual soul is different from one another. We can understand by our present experiment. You are individual soul, I am individual soul. I do not agree with you in every respect, neither you agree with me in every respect. All of us, we have got our individuality. That is our characteristic. That we cannot change. We have got our individuality. We cannot change it. This is our characteristic. And that individuality also meant for giving service. Just like you are all sitting here. Every one of us, we are giving service. Nobody can say... I challenge anybody in this meeting if he can say that he's not serving anybody. No. Everyone is serving. Somebody is serving his family, somebody is serving his boss, somebody is serving his country, his community, his nation—must be serving, must render some service. This is explained by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that the characteristic of individual living entity is to remain eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Kṛṣṇa dāsa.
We are making plans in so many ways to be happy. But if we accept this one plan, that immediately surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. And if we do not accept this proposal of Kṛṣṇa, and if we make our own plans to be happy, it will be never be possible. Hoiya māyāra dāsa kori nānā abhilāṣ. Anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gelā, ataeva māyāra tare goliyā badila. We are not independent. If we do not agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, then we have to serve māyā. Our position as servant is never changed. We remain servant. So if we don't agree to accept Kṛṣṇa's proposal sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), then we have to take shelter of māyā and you have to perpetually serve. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: No. We don't agree. Therefore it is called avāṅ-manasā gocaraḥ, adhokṣaja—there are so many names. The senses are imperfect. They cannot reach. Just like we cannot know what is there in the sun, but a geologist or astronomer, he can say, one who has studied. Therefore our process of knowledge is to take from the authorities. That is perfect. Our senses cannot read, that is a fact. But it is not that without senses, no knowledge can be... No. We receive by senses, but from superior authority, one who knows. That is perfect knowledge. According to him, there is no possibility of having perfect knowledge?
Prabhupāda: Certainly, certainly. Those who do not agree to accept this, just like so many rascal philosopher, there is no purpose of life, chance, they are rascals.
Śyāmasundara: But his idea is that to understand this reality or this truth is that one must examine all relationships of everything to each other.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are teaching. That original is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's expansion in energy is everything. Parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Just like heat and light; practically whole physical existence is heat and light. So heat and light, there is a fire wherefrom the heat and light comes. Similarly two energies, heat and light, the spiritual and material, they are emanating from the fire, Kṛṣṇa, and everything is made of heat and light, material (indistinct). So one who has got to see, one has got the eyes to see, that is the spiritual, he can see it. And when he hasn't got the eyes to see, he thinks material.
Prabhupāda: But here is a scientist, and he does not agree with that.
Śyāmasundara: What about the half-life of certain elements?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. The, normally, what they call the age determination, or how old a species is, they normally find out from this so-called (indistinct). They find some bone or something which contains normally carbonate. And normally they get this age of the elements or age of these findings by so-called Carbon 14 method. Carbon 14 is an isotope of normal carbon, it is called Carbon 12. Carbon 14 is radioactive. It's one in which they put in the radioactive testing, and they find out because it follows the normal chemical laws or physical laws. This is governed by the Lord Himself, by Kṛṣṇa Himself. They're finding the chemical lowest form, and from that chemical lowest they normally try to reduce the, how old the sample is, and that method is very limited, it is not applicable to all findings also, and a test, a very reliable test (indistinct) to about five thousand, six thousand years old but beyond that it is very doubtful whether the findings are really true or not.
Karandhara: They don't even agree amongst one another. They argue. I attended college with scientists, and they argue amongst one another. They don't agree on their own scientific evidence.
Śyāmasundara: But at least they all agree that there is several million years old, many millions of years old, at least.
Karandhara: No. Not necessarily.
Śyāmasundara: The Pleistocene two hundred million years...
Karandhara: Just an assembly of fools. You can get all the fools to agree on the same thing. It doesn't make anyone...
Śyāmasundara: Well I still want to find out how they...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa nāma koro bhai ar sab niche, parai gab pap nahi yoni ache piche (?). Our real problem is birth, death. All these scientist, they could not solve any of these problems, neither they could answer. Maybe Darwin's cam(?) has died. They could not stop death. Kata choto dayana na mari meri jao (?).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is written by a scientist from Colorado(?) University.
Prabhupāda: So he does not agree God created?
Śyāmasundara: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: So there was a chunk.
Śyāmasundara: "The hierarchy of condensations." There are two theories: one is that everything was originally gas, and the other is that everything was originally turbulence or energy.
Prabhupāda: Originally gas. Now, so far we have got our experience, gas is produced from some liquid, is it not?
Śyāmasundara: They say that the liquid is produced from the gas.
Prabhupāda: That is also taught by us.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but now Mao disagrees with the practical utility of Russian philosophy. So where is the stability? And similarly, the Russians don't agree with the Chinese, so what is practical for China is not practical for the Russians. So which one we shall take?
Viśāla: That which is practical for both.
Prabhupāda: That means both of them are not practical. It will be proved in due course of time.
Śyāmasundara: He says that terms such as "God" and "matter" and "absolute" and terms like that must have cash value or practical worth. He says, "You must bring out of each work its practical cash value."
Prabhupāda: So this is animal, animals' philosophy, that "I shall die." Then that very attachment, he is imperfect, that he dies. We do not agree that we will die. Actually that's not a fact, because in my life I can understand that I have existed as a child. So the body of child is not there, but still I am existing. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I'll exist. So I exist eternally. I shall not die. That is the philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the essence of the human being is in his existence. That is that there are numerous kinds of...
Prabhupāda: His idea of existence is: from birth to death. Not beyond death. He did not exist before his birth, and he'll not exist after his death. So his existence means from the point of birth up to the point of death. So that is not very good philosophy.
Prabhupāda: It can be shown, but you have no eyes to see. That is my proposal. Your eyes are just as blind man. If he says that "Show me this," how he can see? He is blind man. So you are blind, you cannot see, but those who have eyes, they can see. Therefore they say, śāstra cakṣuṣa: don't believe those eyes. Śāstra cakṣuṣa. Make the śāstra your cakṣuṣa. That is Vedic position. Don't see with these naked eyes. What is the value of your eyes? Why are you so much proud of your eyes? You cannot see. You see under certain conditions. Therefore adhaksi(?) Adhaksi means those who believe only the eyes. And what is the value of the eyes? That you won't admit, that "I am blind." He won't say. He will say simply, "I cannot see." How you can see? You're blind. That he won't admit, that he's blind. He will simply say that "I cannot see; therefore I don't agree." But you are blind!
Śyāmasundara: That's what he's doing.
Prabhupāda: But you begin with zero, but to make this zero something, you have to ask somebody. But he does not agree to that.
Śyāmasundara: No. Who can he ask? He doesn't know who to ask.
Prabhupāda: That is different thing. But you have to ask.
Śyāmasundara: So he says by intuition...
Devotee: I think the idea is that you can tell me who is the father, but I can't understand who the father is when I try to perceive it myself. You have given me a word or a thought, "This is your father," but actually the meaning of "father" has nothing beyond that word or thought unless I understand that I have father. Maybe I might call it by a different name than father.
Devotee (2): No, no.
Revatīnandana: So they would posit that there's a mental functioning going on, a thinking functioning going on that we're not conscious of. I think we don't agree with that. Is that correct? We say that there's one mind, sometimes mental impressions come that are stored...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: ...but in that storage area of the consciousness, there is no thinking going on there. Is that correct? The unconsciousness mind is not thinking like the conscious mind.
Prabhupāda: No, no. But the impression is there.
Revatīnandana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: All of a sudden it comes out.
Śyāmasundara: Their goal is the production of material goods for the enhancement of human well-being.
Prabhupāda: The human well-being means if you don't agree to me, I cut your throat, that's all. This is (indistinct). I am thinking in my way: human well being. Just like Stalin, he was thinking in his own way, human well-being, but anyone who disagrees with him, cut his throat. This is (indistinct). Lenin also (indistinct) like that.
Śyāmasundara: Well-being is relative.
Prabhupāda: Just like he killed all the royal family. So this killing, they will say it is well-being of the (indistinct). So this is not well-being for the royal family. But they theorized, it is well-being.
Śyāmasundara: How is that exactly?
Prabhupāda: This is conflict. Conflict means if I don't agree with you and if you do not agree with me, that is conflict.
Śyāmasundara: So some progress is made from that conflict?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the two can(?) fight or conflict and one judgement giver.
Śyāmasundara: And this is progress.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this morning I was explaining that your statement should be according to the standard process, vidhi-mārga. So sādhu-śāstra-guru, three authorities: saintly persons, scripture, and spiritual master. So all of them should be, should agree. There is a con... Just like two litigants, they go to the court and the judges give judgement. Similarly, whenever there is conflict, to come to a conclusion, we must refer to sādhu, śāstra, and guru. Then we get the right judgement.
Śyāmasundara: He uses the same example of Barthe(?) that essais persice(?) means that this exists because I perceive it, that all these non-ego objects are...
Prabhupāda: No, that we don't agree. It exists independent from our perception.
Śyāmasundara: But it must be perceived by someone to exist.
Prabhupāda: That is different (indictinct) the one who has manufactured it (indistinct). So similarly, God is in (indistinct) of everything, I may not. That is described in the Bhāgavata, anvayād itarataś ca, anvayād (indistinct) sa abhijñaḥ. He is not (indistinct). Nothing can be concealed from the vision of God.
Śyāmasundara: So to be is to be perceived but because God perceives it, it exists.
Prabhupāda: Without God nothing can exist.
Prabhupāda: He may, he may follow Kant and I may follow Kṛṣṇa, but if there is contradiction, then which one is morality? How it will be decided, and who will decide? He may follow somebody. That this question I asked Professor Kotovsky in Moscow, that "You are following Communism, and we are following, say, Kṛṣṇa-ism, but your leader is Lenin and our leader is Kṛṣṇa, that so far the philosophy is concerned we have to accept a leader." So there is no difference in the basic principle of philosophy that we must have a leader. Now who shall be the leader and who will decide it? Regards to both of us, we have got a leader. Now which leader is perfect? If both of them are perfect, then why there is difference of opinion—one leader does not agree with the other leader? So who will answer this question that who is the best leader? Leader you have to follow. That you cannot avoid. Either you follow Kant or you follow Kṛṣṇa. Either you follow Lenin or you follow Kṛṣṇa. What is the answer? Who is the perfect leader? You cannot avoid leader, either you say according to Kant, I say according to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, to give protection to women. That is not actually worshiping, but maintaining her comfortably, that is the duty of the man. But to worship woman as God, that is not very good proposal. Then he will be henpecked. Worship of God is reserved for God only, not for anyone else. But the exchange, cooperation, between men and women for worshiping God, that is essential. Not that woman should be worshiped like God, or man should be worshiped like God. But the affection sometimes is stressed that you see him as God or see, see her as God. That is sentimental. But God is different either from man or from the woman. Both of them are living entities, both of them meant for worshiping God. Just like sometimes in the Vedic conception the wife is considered as dharma-patnī, religious wife. Means wife helps the husband in the matter of his religious life. That is found in, still in Hindu family: the man is worshiping the Deity and the woman is helping about the paraphernalia Deity worship, helping the husband so that he can immediately come into the Deity room and begin worshiping comfortably. So woman should always be engaged to assist the man in every respect in his religious life, in his social life, in his family life. That is real benefit of conjugal life. But if the woman does not agree with the man, and the man treats the woman as his servant, that is not good.
| Page Title: | Does not agree (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 30 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=77, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 77 |