Controlled by... (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"controlled and owned by" |"controlled and ruled over by" |"controlled but by" |"controlled by" |"controlled either by" |"controlled not by" |"controlled only by" |"controlled, even by"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Kīrtanānanda: So we understand that in the material consciousness the living entity is being forced to act.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: His actions are quite automatic under the laws of material nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, action is there. Because you are living entity, you are active.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, but they are being dictated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a man in fever talking nonsense. So that is due to fever.

Kīrtanānanda: In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, are the actions of the jīva similarly controlled by Kṛṣṇa's superior energy?

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Kīrtanānanda: But everything is being controlled ultimately by Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Either by inferior energy or superior energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: So his activities are never independent, either in Kṛṣṇa or...

Prabhupāda: Never, never, never. That is his insanity, another. As soon as he thinks that "I am independent," that is another insanity. He is under control. Just like the same man. He is thinking, "I don't care for state laws." He is insane. He will be forced to accept state laws in the prison house by the police. But he thinks, "Oh, I am free man." Still... He is slapped by the police. He says, "Oh, I am independent. Go on slapping." This is insanity. Is it not insanity? The police slaps him, and he says, "I am independent." Do you think independence? So that sort of independence we are having. We are kicked by māyā always, and we are thinking, "independent." This is insanity.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: But when you go to the government state, they are equally important. They are distributing the finance everywhere. So similarly either you take material energy or spiritual energy or marginal energy, all energy of God's, Kṛṣṇa's, but they are acting differently. So, so far I am marginal energy, if I am under the control of the material energy, that is my misfortune. But if I am controlled by the spiritual energy, that is my fortune. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). They take shelter of the spiritual energy. They are mahātmā, and what is their symptom: bhajanty ananya manaso, simply engaged in devotional service. That, that is required.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: No, that, that has killed the Indian culture. You see? Otherwise there was no necessity of division of this Pakistan. Not only that, from history, perhaps you know, this whole planet was Bhāratavarṣa, and it was controlled by one flag up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually they separated, separated. This is the history. And late, lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bhāratavarṣa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise this whole... According to our scripture, Vedic scripture, this, this whole planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was named Ilāvṛtavarṣa, but since the Emperor Bhārata ruled over this planet, it is called Bhāratavarṣa from Mahārāja Bhārata. So this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic culture, were existing... Now any religion you take, Christian religion, Mohammedan religion or Buddhist religion, they are, utmost, two thousand, three thousand old, years old.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God, (indistinct). That is accepted. We accept Kṛṣṇa, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara. Īśvara means the controller. Just like here there are controllers. But here any controller is controlled by another controller. But param īśvara, God means Who has no other controller. He's the supreme controller. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā: īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). He's the supreme controller. Here any controller, he's controlling, just like this physician. He has learned his medical science from another physician, another physician, another physician. So we are not the supreme physician or supreme controller.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: Henry, Henry, yes. So he revolted, not being controlled, revolted against being controlled by the priestly order. Here also we see, purohita amātya-suhṛd-gaṇādayaḥ. When the king left, then the priestly order, purohita, purohita means priestly order, amātya, amātya means ministers, and suhṛd-gaṇādayaḥ, suhṛt means those who are willing welfare of the state, they became very much aggrieved that the king has left.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: By māyā. By having... Just like government controls everything. A criminal is controlled by the police department.

Bob Cohen: And how does Kṛṣṇa control a devotee?

Prabhupāda: Just like you control your beloved. Just like you have got a beloved child. So you control him, for his benefit. If he's going to touch fire, you immediately say to him, "No, no, my dear child, don't touch it." So a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, devotee, he is never misled, because Kṛṣṇa is always guiding him, whereas those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they're in charge of māyā, and māyā will do the needful, as you have seen(?).

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not preset. That you can do, because you have got little independence. It is not natural to commit suicide. It is unnatural. So, because we have got independence, we can go from nature to unnature, and we shall be prepared for that. Just like a prisoner cannot go out of the prisonhouse naturally, but somehow or other he arranges to jump over the wall and goes away. Then he becomes again criminal, for farther (indistinct). Naturally, the prisoners cannot go out of the prisonhouse. Somehow or other, he manages to go out. That means he becomes again criminal. He will be again arrested, and his term of imprisonment will be increased, or he will be punished more. So naturally we cannot violate the destiny, but if we do it, then we suffer(?). But our destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa when we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we do not do, but Kṛṣṇa will do. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I shall give you protection." So that change takes place for my protection by Kṛṣṇa. There are two stages: nondevotee and devotee. The nondevotee is under the control of material nature, and devotee is under the direct control of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a big man. In the office there are many employees, they are controlled by different departmental superintendent. But the small man at home is controlling his children directly.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: When one becomes devotee, he is controlled directly by God. When he is nondevotee, he is controlled by His agent, māyā. But he has to be controlled. Just like every citizen of America is controlled by the government. When he's all right, his civil department controls him. When he's not all right, then the criminal department controls him. But he cannot say that "I am not controlled." That is not possible. If somebody says, "I am not controlled," he is not sane. He is crazy. Everyone is controlled. So either you be controlled directly by God or you be controlled by his agency. Being controlled by māyā, you spoil your life. That means you remain in the material existence, one after another. You simply change your body. But if you give yourself to be controlled by God, then after this body you go back to home, back to Godhead. Then your life is successful. You cannot be without being controlled. That is not possible. Therefore one who is intelligent, he puts himself under the control of God directly. That is intelligence.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: "After many births of struggling, or speculation, one surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarva..., "Kṛṣṇa, You are everything. So I am.... Accept me. I am now fully surrendered unto You, and You control me." Because I am controlled. So, so long I am being controlled by these rascals, so there is no benefit. I'm controlled. I have been controlled by my senses. So under the control of the senses, I have served family, so-called family, society, country, nation, up to serving the dog, but nothing has given me the satisfaction. Therefore now I have got sense, good sense. I put myself under Your power. Instead of being controlled by dog, let me be controlled by God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have not seen, man, how he is controlled by a dog, in the street? The dog stops, passes stool. "Yes, I stand." Is it not? He's passing stool, his urine, and the master is thinking, "I am master," but he's being controlled.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: The dog stops, passes stool. "Yes, I stand." Is it not? He's passing stool, his urine, and the master is thinking, "I am master," but he's being controlled. That is māyā. He has become servant of dog, but he is thinking that "I am master of dog." This is māyā. This is māyā. So unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, one cannot understand. We can understand that this rascal is being controlled by this dog, but he's thinking that he is the master. We can understand. What do you think? Does he not become controlled by the dog?

Bob Cohen: It's very true.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bob Cohen: That, it's very true.

Prabhupāda: But he's thinking that "I am master of the dog." A family man, he's controlled by his wife, by his children, by his servant, by everyone, but he's thinking, "I am master." President Nixon is thinking that he's master of his country, but he's controlled. At once he can be dismissed by the public, his servant. And he gets that position, placing himself that "I'll give you very good service. I shall be your first-class servant."

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: And he's advertising, "Re-elect me. Re-elect me." That means he is servant. But he's thinking, "I am master." That is the position. Māyā. One who is controlled by māyā, he's thinking himself master, but he's servant. And a devotee, he'll never think himself, "I am master." "I am servant." That is the difference between māyā and not māyā. He at least knows that "I am never master. I am always servant." But these rascals, they think that they are master when actually they are servant. That is the difference. That is the difference. When a servant is thinking, "I am master," that is called illusion. And when a servant thinks "I am servant," that is not illusion; that is mukti. That is liberation. Because he is not controlled by a false thought. Try to think about this subject matter. A devotee is never controlled by a false thought. He knows his position. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Mukti, liberation, means to be situated in his own constitutional position. That is called mukti, liberation. I am servant, so if I know that "I am servant," that is my liberation. And I am servant; if I think "I am master," that is his bondage.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So seeing that mistake also, now the scientists, they are proposing that they should make a governing body, not the politicians, so when they discover something the result can be completely controlled by this group of...

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. That is another foolishness. They will be bribed and they will vote. They will get money, that's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another thing that is coming up is genetic engineering, which they are afraid about, just like they say remember like atomic bomb incident. The politicians will utilize the...

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why conventional? Actually. Just like a child and a teacher, they are of the same. He is also human being and children also, human being. But still, the children are controlled by the teacher. Therefore superior. It is not convention. If you disobey the superior, you will be punished. That superiority is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in any case, everything is controlled by the superior energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That superior energy is life. A small seed of banyan tree fructifies; there is life, and the big tree comes. So many wood, so many twigs, so many things, huge quantity. Here is the proof. Life is the origin. According to our Vedic description, Brahmā is first created. He is life. Not that matter is first created, then Brahmā comes. No. And Brahmā comes from Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is life, the supreme life. Then Brahmā creates this universe. That is Vedic version. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So life is the origin.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that best living entity is God. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That means the best controller, the supreme controller. Just like this man is controlling his dog, and that man is controlled by somebody else. In his office or where he works, he is controlled by his boss. And the dog is controlling the cat, the cat is controlling rat. In this way, one after another, there are controllers. I control you, he controls me, another controls him. In this way, you go on searching. When you find out somebody who controls but is not controlled by anyone, He is God. Where is the difficulty to understand? Everyone here we see that although a person is controller, at the same time he is controlled. Therefore the ideal living entity is, he controls but he is not controlled by others. That is supreme.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Why you say government is nothing?

Krishna Tiwari: Government is by people.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you still you cannot say nothing. You are controlled by it.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, controlled by it, by, by we, we agree with them, for our good or for what...

Prabhupāda: First of all you agree. First of all you agree...

Krishna Tiwari: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: ...that government gives law and you are under the law.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: You cannot avoid it. So everyone is under the laws the nature. Let us decide on that. Now these laws of nature, these also controlled by somebody else. As we gave the example that every individual person within a state is controlled by the laws of government or laws of king. Now it is governed by democracy. Formerly it was under the king. So king is a person. He gives the law, and under that law all citizens are controlled. This is a fact. Therefore the laws of nature is controlled by somebody, controller, and we get this information from Vedic knowledge. And practically it is so, that just by the example, law must be given by somebody. Law is not blind, or something dropped from the sky. Law is law. It is made by somebody. That is law. It is working systematically. That is law. So when there is systematic law, there is systematic law-giver, controller, supervisor, superintendent. So we are not imagining, but we'll take it from authority, Vedic information, which is accepted by a great culture, great ācāryas, great teachers. Not that I am blindly accepting, but we are in the disciplic succession in the Vedic knowledge. So from there we understand, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), Vedānta-sūtra. Vedānta-sūtra.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now, what is that person, that is another thing, but simply let us agree that we are under the laws of nature, and laws of nature is also controlled by somebody.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, we can say that...

Prabhupāda: That is our point. That is our point. Now, who is that person, or what is that substance which is controlling the law of nature, that is not yet known to the science.

Krishna Tiwari: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But we, either you say "believe" or you know, we know.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you have to accept. We are under the laws of nature, and laws of nature is controlled by something superior.

Krishna Tiwari: That's fine. I don't think we have any disagreement on that point.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let us agree to that point.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Let us agree to that point. Now what is that something, that remains, for the time being. I may say "I know"; you may say "I don't believe in it." That is a different thing. But there must be something above the laws of nature which is controlling. That's all.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. Just like surgical operation is going on. He's unconscious. That is another thing. By some method, he's unconscious. But the pain is there. The pain is there. The pain is not felt. Just like animals. They, they are in painful condition, but because they are animal, they do not feel it. On the horseback, you are driving horseback, like this, like this. It is painful, but because he's animal he cannot protect himself. It is very painful. Suppose if a chain is shackled on your mouth, and I constantly push like this...? Is it not painful? The horse is controlled by the mouth...

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: By the chain, yes. Horse is very powerful animal than the man. How the man can control the horse? But he knows the trick, that it has to be controlled in the mouth. As soon as there is pain in the mouth, he becomes puzzled. He has to abide by the order. The man knows the tricks. Horse is not controlled by the tai... (break) ...he's controlled.

Bhagavān: Really?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: So every animal can be controlled...

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Therefore there was a meeting of all animals that how to get out of the control of man. (laughter) The elephant said: "My dear sir, I am so powerful. I am also controlled by that. So it is useless to hold meeting." "I am also controlled by man." The meeting was organized by an ass. (laughter) He thought that: "I have to work so hard. Let us have a conference of animals to avoid man's control." But he saw that elephant also said that "I am so powerful. Still I am also controlled by the man. So it is useless."

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, our position is like that, like ass. We are also trying to get out of the control of material nature. Like an ass. But it is not possible. The conference is failure. Here, in the material world, even a so powerful being as Brahmā, he's also controlled. By God. He's also controlled. You have seen that picture? Brahmā is bowing down before Kṛṣṇa.

Guru-gaurāṅga: You remember this picture? In the temple in Geneva? Brahmā with four heads is offering respects to Kṛṣṇa.

Anna Conan Doyle: Yes, yes. Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: First of all, gross understanding. This body means the senses. Indriyāṇi. Those who are animals, they are thinking this is all. But they do not understand that these indriyas are being controlled by the mind. If one's mind is, what is called, distorted, then the indriyas cannot work. That is madman. You try to cure the mental disease just to bring him in proper position to control the senses. Otherwise, he does not know how to control the senses. Therefore the controller of the senses is the mind. And above the mind there is intelligence. And above the intelligence there is soul. So we cannot see even the mind, intelligence and ego. And how we can see the soul? The soul has got his magnitude. And without understanding, without education about the soul, about the spirit soul, any other understanding, that is animal understanding. (pause) Give him prasāda.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, the moon is controlled by whom?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll say, "By nature."

Prabhupāda: Nature is controlled by whom?

Bali Mardana: Who is controlling the moon?

Prabhupāda: That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "Nature is controlled by Me." Therefore He is absolute controller. But He is not controlled by anyone. Therefore He is absolute controller. Just like a, what is called? Magnetic stone?

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: They say, "It's just there by nature's arrangement."

Prabhupāda: That is answered: "Nature is controlled by God."

Karandhara: Well, they prefer to leave nature as nondescript. When they say or designate as "nature," they prefer to leave that nondescript, nonspecific.

Prabhupāda: Why? That means insufficient knowledge. They do not wish to describe it because your foolishness will be discovered.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that "I can do that. That is done by nature."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Then so much control, that is another thing. But not control. "So much control" means no control. (japa) (break) ...admitted that we are controlled by nature. That you cannot refuse. That is foolishness. Now, next, how nature is working? That is also replied in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "The material nature is working..." Just like we are also taking the advantage of material nature, kṣity-ap-tejaḥ. Here is earth, but we can take this earth and make into brick and make a skyscraper building. So it is not that the earth itself is going to become a skyscraper building. I am living entity; I am utilizing. So nature means these five elements, eight elements. So that has been manipulated by another living entity. Just like the aeroplane is a combination of some matter, but it is being worked out by the manufacturer, by the pilot.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Then so much control, that is another thing. But not control. "So much control" means no control. (japa) (break) ...admitted that we are controlled by nature. That you cannot refuse. That is foolishness. Now, next, how nature is working? That is also replied in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "The material nature is working..." Just like we are also taking the advantage of material nature, kṣity-ap-tejaḥ. Here is earth, but we can take this earth and make into brick and make a skyscraper building. So it is not that the earth itself is going to become a skyscraper building. I am living entity; I am utilizing. So nature means these five elements, eight elements. So that has been manipulated by another living entity. Just like the aeroplane is a combination of some matter, but it is being worked out by the manufacturer, by the pilot. Therefore that driver of the aeroplane or the manufacturer of the..., he's superior. So superior to the material nature is Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. (break) ...our position is that we are being controlled by the material nature, and, and nature, material nature, is controlled by Kṛṣṇa. So the sense is that one who is at all sensible, that "After all, the controller is Kṛṣṇa. So why not directly under control of Kṛṣṇa?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why through the material nature? I have to be controlled. I am being controlled by the material nature; and material nature is being controlled by Kṛṣṇa. So why not being directly controlled? This is good sense.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: No, material nature... Just like you don't care for government. Then you be controlled by the jail superintendent. That's all. You'll be controlled. You cannot be free. But if you deny directly the control of the government then you must be controlled by the criminal department, by force. This is your position.

Bali-mardana: Either to be controlled by love or by force.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali-mardana: One has a choice to either be controlled by love or by force.

Prabhupāda: But love, there is no love when there is force.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: But love, there is no love when there is force.

Bali-mardana: No, but by Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is love. Just like you are being controlled by me. There is no force. Voluntarily, out of love... I am not paying you. Still, if I say something, immediately you do. Why? There is love. That's all.

Bali-mardana: One who actually understands the distinction, is it possible that he will still choose to be controlled by the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has already chosen. But he's foolish. He does not know. He thinks that "I am now independent of the Supreme Lord." But because he's foolish, he cannot understand that you are not independent. You are being controlled by another agent of God. And because, although he's being controlled, he's thinking, "I am free," therefore he's in illusion. This is called illusion. Illusion means something which is not fact. That is illusion. So this materialist, the so-called scientist, he's thinking, "There is no God. We are independent."

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has already chosen. But he's foolish. He does not know. He thinks that "I am now independent of the Supreme Lord." But because he's foolish, he cannot understand that you are not independent. You are being controlled by another agent of God. And because, although he's being controlled, he's thinking, "I am free," therefore he's in illusion. This is called illusion. Illusion means something which is not fact. That is illusion. So this materialist, the so-called scientist, he's thinking, "There is no God. We are independent." So many things, like rascal they are thinking. Foolish rascal, childish. And that is illusion. Ahaṅkāra-vimudhātmā. Therefore this very word is used, vimūḍhātmā: "befooled rascal." Actually, he's being controlled by material nature. So how to get out of this material nature? That is explained, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "As soon as that rascal surrenders unto Me, immediately he's out of control." Hare Kṛṣṇa. How these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians can refute this arrangement? Is it possible?

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: They refuse. That is..., means rascaldom. They do not actually understand the fact. How they can refuse? Every moment they are controlled by the material nature. Every step.

Bali-mardana: The thing is that they do not realize. They are in illusion. They do not realize...

Prabhupāda: That is... That means... Therefore we say they are rascals. They do not realize the fact. Therefore, rascal. Rascal means who do not understand the real fact.

Satsvarūpa: They say that we are also under the control of nature?

Prabhupāda: What?

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that a sensible man is that "I am controlled. I am controlled by some other agent of Kṛṣṇa. So why not be controlled directly by Kṛṣṇa." This is sense. I cannot be independent. Just like the government. If somebody says, "I don't agree to be controlled by you," then government will kick with police, with military. That is our position. We are being kicked by the agent of government, material nature. We are desiring in different way to become controller or enjoyer, and we are being offered different facilities, means different types of body, birth and death. So because they have no sense, they have accepted this process. So by the force of nature... "You wanted to desire. You desired this thing. All right, take this body. You wanted to eat without discrimination. All right, take this body of a pig and eat up to stool." That is nature's gift. So therefore he's changing. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kono bhāgyavān jīva. He's going on changing, this dress that dress, that dress, that dress, that dress. But he's not in sense that "How I can stop this change?" That he doesn't know. Now, as Americans, they have so many nice facilities, but you cannot enjoy them.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, but the difference between God and us, that the God has control over the māyā, while we are controlled by the māyā, the jīvas.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is māyā even.

Dr. Patel: Then if they know māyā, then you call them Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Māyāvādī is different.

Dr. Patel: And you call them rascals.

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī is different. Māyāvādī is different. But those who are completely ignorant, that is another thing. That is another thing. Māyāvādīs, they pose themselves as knowing everything.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... These rascal atheist class, they think that prakṛti is creating. Prakṛti is creating, that the ocean is created by prakṛti. But why the ocean does not come here? Fifty, sixty yards? Because there is order that "You cannot come here." This big ocean, immediately, in one minute, it can swallow up whole Bombay. Therefore it is controlled. It is controlled by the Supreme. Mayādhyakṣeṇa.

Dr. Patel:

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

sūyate sa-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

(BG 9.10)

Prabhupāda: The whole worldly affairs is going on... The godless atheists, they cannot understand it, that behind this prakṛti, the wonderful prakṛti, so many things happening... It is not happening independently.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, these mūḍhas, they will think, "Huh? It is controlled by Kṛṣṇa? He is ordinary man like this." A mūḍha. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. He does not know how much powerful is Kṛṣṇa, the mūḍha.

Dr. Patel: But you see, this is not like this, that those fools... (break)

Prabhupāda: That is also another mūḍha, but supposing if Kṛṣṇa says that "I am controlling the whole universe." The mūḍha will not believe it. "Huh? How is that? How...? Such a big gigantic prakṛti, and He is a person. He can control?" The mūḍha cannot understand. He cannot understand that how much powerful is Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They do not know what is the all-omniscient nature of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- April 26, 1974, Tirupati:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...quarter there is no cinema song. Bhaja gopālam. (there is music playing in background, recording of a boy or woman singing "bhaja gopāla")

Satsvarūpa: Śrīnivāsa (?) said every... (break) ...is controlled by the temple here. Even the government doesn't control.

Prabhupāda: This is all temple here around (indistinct). (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...prominence. (break)

Indian man: We came here yesterday. We went to the temple three times and just for a long...

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Satsvarūpa: But they take that argument of His. Where is the proof that the rains are controlled by God?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Kṛṣṇa says the rain will come, but Kṛṣṇa never says that without rain you can cultivate. So Kṛṣṇa's purpose was because I am the Supreme Lord, Indra will supply, his father will supply." So that is another thing. Kṛṣṇa never said that "Without rain, you can cultivate." Never said.

Yogeśvara: Well, what if they argue that "Whether we perform yajña or not, these rains will go on. They are coming now and we are not performing yajña."

Prabhupāda: "Because I will order. You are already performing yajña, worshiping Me, loving Me." That is Kṛṣṇa's purpose. Tasmiṁs tuṣṭe jagat tuṣṭa. If you satisfy Kṛṣṇa, Indra's father will be satisfied. Just like if you water on the root of the tree, all the Indras, as branches and leaves and foliage, they will be satisfied. That is the purpose. Kṛṣṇa wanted to impress this that "You simply love Me, and everything will be supplied."

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: As soon as... Just like dog he does not know that he is controlled by the master, "Tch tch tch tch," chain. He does not know. He is thinking, "I am now free. Rau! Rau! Rau! Rau! Rau!" This is the position, no difference between the dog and so-called big, big men. If the dog thinks that he is free and he can jump over anywhere freely, is it possible? No. Fully controlled under the master. He has accepted this control.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Especially in the western countries, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the people do not like to think that they are controlled or that they are...

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Geneva, there are varieties of living entities and also houses and mountains. So two things, animate and inanimate. One section, animate; another section, inanimate. So we are small gods, or īśvaras. We may control the government and the management of the street and parks and everything, but we are controlled by the supreme. As supreme God, the supreme controller is not controlled by anyone. I am controlling, but I am being controlled by somebody else. That is God. So therefore we have to admit, we must admit that we are not free. We are controlled. Eh? By superior power or superior controller we are controlled. Therefore our duty is to be controlled according to His desire. So if we agree to be controlled by the Supreme, that is perfect life. And if we do not like to come to be controlled by the supreme, that is sinful life. And this is the perfect knowledge.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Supreme. We have got experience of īśvara. Just like I said, everyone is īśvara, everyone is a controller. So I am personal, I am also īśvara of my body. I am controlling my body. So in that way, everyone is īśvara. But these īśvaras, they are controlled by another īśvara. We are īśvara, but I am controlled by another īśvara. But īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1), He is īśvara but He is not controlled by anyone. That is paramaḥ, supreme. From the dictionary meaning also we can under..., being and Supreme Being. We are being, but we are controlled by another being, he is controlled by another being, he is controlled by another being. In this way, you go. If you find out some being who is not controlled by anyone, he is Supreme Being. This is the idea.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So "Nobody is superior to Me," there is nobody controller. Kṛṣṇa is not controlled by anyone. Therefore, He is īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That is final God. Otherwise God... You will find, you are more powerful than me, he is more powerful than you, and somebody is more powerful than him, go on, go on, seeing, seeing. But when you come to Kṛṣṇa, nobody is more powerful than Him. Mattaḥ parataram. Parataram means better or higher principle, no.

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Prabhupāda: Then it is confirmed by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam (BG 10.12). "You are person"—puruṣam means person—śāśvatam, "eternally." Then he says that "It is not that You have said. I see from Your instruction, and it is confirmed by Vyāsadeva, by Devala, by Nārada." Then it is final.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: It is not possible, but he's trying to do that. That is the disease. Just like in your country, Napoleon, he tried his best to use whole Europe to be controlled by him. So he made some attempt, but he is finished now. The Europe is there, but he's gone away. Similarly, it is just like... The example is: Just like a fly wants to enjoy the fire. He comes with force there, and he is finished. Similarly, in this material world, every, all living entities, they're trying to enjoy. With great force, they are coming. And different capacities, they try to enjoy, but they themselves become finished. The things remain where it was. So so many living entities... Exa... The example, the fly is very proper. So many flies are coming, (makes sound:) "Phut! Phut! Phut! Phut!" in the big fire. You have no experience here?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Srutakirti:

īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ

yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat

tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā

mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam

(ISO 1)

"Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one must not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong."

Prabhupāda: Explanation.

Śrutakīrti:. "Purport." (break)

Prabhupāda: This is the summary of God consciousness. (Says something in Hindi)

Young man: I am from Ānanda-mārga. My name is Ācārya Sveta Kirtu Brahmacārī.

Prabhupāda: Sveta-kirtu. Sveta.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the right conclusion, that God is also Supreme Being and we are also being, so as being, we are one, but as Supreme, He is different. That is the right conclusion. You are not Supreme Being. You are being controlled by the Supreme Being. You cannot say that you are independent. Therefore you are not Supreme. You are dependent on Him. Eko hi yasya vidadhāti kāmān, bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He maintains. Just like this coconut. God has given us this coconut fruit to enjoy or to live upon it. But I cannot create this coconut. It is not possible. Therefore, for my maintenance He has sent this coconut. So He is maintainer; I am maintained, although He is being; I am also being. He is maintainer being; I am maintained being. This is the right conclusion. No scientist... He can talk so many things about this coconut, but unfortunately he cannot manufacture this coconut.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Then they are controlled by the laws of material nature, and they want to be happy independently. This is rascaldom. If I am controlling you and you want to become happy independently, how it is possible? You must get out of the control first of all. Your eyes should be open. Then you can do something independently. But you are under my control fully, and I have wrapped up your eyes with very thick layer of cloth, and then how you can become independent, work. That they do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This māyā, this energy, is very, very strong. You cannot get out of it. Then what is the way? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: They seem to like everything about our philosophy, except when we explain very clearly that everyone is sinning and under the control of lust and that we must become free from lust. Then they become disturbed because they don't know how to do this, and they want to disclaim it. Just when I was saying that in one class, they all understood very clearly by examples that we are all controlled by our senses, and this microphone speaker came on for all classes, interrupting my speech, and a voice announced in the Catholic school, "Would all the students whose parents purchased tickets for the wine-tasting festival tonight please report to the office," and they all began to laugh because they were embarrassed, because they could see that actually they were engaged in sinful activities. They are also very amazed when they see your books. Sometimes we take ten or fifteen books-Bhagavad-gītā, and ten Śrīmad Bhāgavatams, Caitanya-caritāmṛta—and we line them all across the front wall or desk, maybe fifteen books. And I begin by saying, "I'm sorry there's only a few minutes to talk, because our Bible is very big," and then I explain, "This is Bhagavad-gītā, and then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam's sixty volumes. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-twelve volumes." And they become very much amazed that this is our..., beginning of our Bible. (break) What can we say to Communists to attract them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: To make their Communist philosophy perfection. That your Communism is not perfect. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can make it perfect. Take for example that you are sympathetic to all living beings that they must eat. But why you are eating animals? They must eat also.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it seems that the cells are not independent. They are somehow controlled by the jīvātmā or the... Of course, Paramātmā is controlling everything. But I know sometimes the cells that compose the body of a living body, it seems that they are not independent; they are dependent.

Prabhupāda: That may be. But what about your cultivating living entities from the cells?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that can be done. That they have already done.

Prabhupāda: "That can be done," you say everything. But you never done.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, modern philosophy is teaching that the forces of greed and lust and these things are greater than man, that actually... This concept that we are eternal, full of knowledge and bliss, they cannot accept that or understand that. They're thinking that the powers of evil are much greater, and we're just controlled by these things.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are fools. When a man's lusty desire is very strong, he commits, what is called, rape, and he becomes complicated in criminal activities. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Why one is forced to do that? The cause is lusty desires, anger, greediness. So we are thinking we are master of this material world, but actually you are servant of these desires, kāma, krodha, lobha, mohaḥ. And that is māyā. He is acting as servant, but he's thinking, "I am master." That is māyā, which is not the fact. Just like yesterday we were discussing that the women, they are acting as instrument of men, and they are thinking, "We have equal rights."

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He was the controller of māyā but we are being controlled by the māyā.

Prabhupāda: No, no, anyway, a 125-years-old and looking like a young man of twenty years old. How it is possible in a material body?

Dr. Patel: So all the avatāras of God, they come with a controlling...

Prabhupāda: Ātma-māyā.

Dr. Patel: Controlling.

Prabhupāda: Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). They do not come under the control of this mahāmāyā. They have got their own spiritual potency. Āhlādinī-śakti. Ātmanaṁ sṛjāmy aham. Ātmanam: Myself, I advent." How it can be like ordinary man? We are... karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). We get body. But He says....

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, as He likes. He likes to appear as fish, that's all. Not that... Ordinary fish, it is forced to take the body of a fish.

Dr. Patel: We are controlled by māyā and its actions...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...and take this body for the fulfillment of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: He takes the body to fulfill His mission.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way. That is real understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. As soon as the Māyāvādī thinks that Kṛṣṇa also accepts a material body... Therefore they are called Māyāvādī. They are called Māyāvādī because they think Kṛṣṇa's body is also māyā. Therefore they are known as Māyāvādīs.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: At one time all of Africa was controlled by the European nations. Completely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mainly these French and...

Brahmānanda: French, British, Germans, Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In South Africa, the British also tried to take over South Africa. There was a war called the Boer War.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So during World War I and World War II many of the South Africans, they actually sided with the Germans because they were against the English so much.

Prabhupāda: African means black Africans. No?

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No, no, before that also. But that habit was controlled by Indian culture.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I see.

Prabhupāda: That is the specific position of Vedic culture. The habit, that tendency is there, but by Indian Vedic culture these base tendencies are checked and they are made, I mean to say, given opportunity to advance. That is brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas voluntarily rejected all these. That is ideal, that "Here is an idea!" But here at the present moment there is no such idea! Everyone is after material enjoyment. There is no ideal that "Here is a person who doesn't care for anything. Still he is so exalted." That is wanted. That ideal is not now. Therefore I am trying to create such ideal men.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: All another set of fools, that's all. (Break) ...whole world is unhappy on account of being controlled by different set of fools. That is the calamity. If they say, "There are so many educated persons. They are controlling, and you are saying "fools." Why? Then what you will answer?

Harikeśa: "Kṛṣṇa says."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mūḍha.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha, narādhama māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). They have no knowledge. "Why no knowledge? Degrees." No, this is māyā. "What is the cause?" Aśuri-bhavam aśritaḥ: Godless rascal. Therefore he's a mūḍha.

Harikeśa: So it's not that we're so much concerned about science but rather the aśuravāda.

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, government.

Dr. Patel: How can they be? Government, no. Temples are never controlled by government.

Prabhupāda: Although the king is there...

Yaśomatīnandana: The government of the king was controlling. Now the government is.

Dr. Patel: Which king?

Prabhupāda: The magistrate is the president of the maṭha.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If the mind is not controlled by intelligence, then it will disturb. Then the senses will be disturbed, agitated. Then you are bound up by karma. Unrestricted sense gratification means karma-bandhana, bound up by the laws of karma. And bound up by the laws of karma means repetition of birth and death in different species. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor dehopapatti (SB 3.31.1). Different bodies means resultant action of karma. So if you want to save yourself from this resultant action of karma, then the first thing is to control the mind. That is yoga system, to control the mind. But one who has got intelligence, he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and the mind is automatically controlled. Yogīnām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatāntarātmanā (BG 6.47).

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he's... He prefers to be controlled by the laws of nature instead of by Kṛṣṇa. That is his misfortune. He is controlled, but he thinks, "I am free." That is ignorance. Mūḍha. Just like I am the state citizen. I am not free. I must work according to the state laws. But he (thinks), "I shall... I don't care for government." That is my foolishness. You have to care. At home I can say to my wife, "I don't care for government, I don't care for the police." But when there is crime, when the police comes, then he says "Ohh." (pulls a sad face-laughter) He can be very much proud before his wife, "I don't care for anything." But when the police comes, "What can I do?" (Hindi) There is an example that the, what is called, mūrgī? What you call? Toast? No. Host? No. What is called? Mūrgī, mūrgī? Chicken? The male, male?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Siddha-svarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the problem is that to work combinedly, they think that that means that I surrender to them and I do everything as they say; otherwise I am not surrendering. So as far as I am concerned, I cannot work with them. There is no possibility of that, and yet I don't want to make trouble with them, but I have to try to work as best as I can. But there is no way that I'm going to be able to be organized and controlled by them. People who've tried to control me before are now spiritually dead and gone, and I'm not going to put myself under the protection of any of these boys who consider themselves to be great sannyāsīs or whatever, and it's just not possible for me to do it. I've tried it before. So I have to try to work as best as I can, not get in their way, and follow your instructions as best as possible, getting people to chant, following the principles myself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: May I ask a question? What is your feeling about the GBC?

Siddha-svarūpa: I don't know anything about it, and I don't really care about organizing it. I don't care about...

Prabhupāda: So why don't you become a GBC and...

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fate. Fate is the cause, destiny. Otherwise, so many people are working hard. Why not everyone is becoming rich by chance? Kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. This is the instruction in the Bhāgavatam. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. There are two things—happiness and distress—and they are being controlled by the time. You have infected some disease. In time, it will come out, manifested, and the doctor say, "Oh, you infected this disease. Take this injection." The time factor. It.... You have to wait to see the result. It is not chance. As soon as you do something, immediately the reaction begins. But you do not see the result immediately, but wait and you'll find. Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: The people in America that claim that the American government is controlled by Communists. They say that these big, big bankers, the very rich, rich people, that they are actually..., their theory is Communist government, or, not Communist, dictatorship, and that they are secretly manipulating.

Prabhupāda: What is their aim?

Rāmeśvara: Power.

Prabhupāda: Power..., anyone who has got money, he has got power. That is open secret. What is the secret? (laughs) If you have got money, you have got all power.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "...afraid of me, what kind of child? (laughs) Where you got so much strength?" And the answer here,

na kevalaṁ me bhavataś ca rājan

sa vai balaṁ balināṁ cāpareṣām

pare 'vare 'mī sthira-jaṅgamā ye

brahmādayo yena vaśaṁ praṇītāḥ

"Prahlāda Mahārāja said, 'My dear King, the source of my strength, of which you are asking, is also the source of yours, by which you are challenging. Indeed, the original source of all kinds of strength is one. He is not only your strength or mine, but the only strength for everyone. Without Him, no one can get any strength, whether moving or not moving, superior or inferior. Everyone, including Lord Brahmā, is controlled by the strength of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.' "

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: What is that sensible thing?

Jayādvaita: That the environment is being controlled by someone, not by us. So there is someone superior. So I just said that to his students, "So your professor is giving a good example."

Prabhupāda: In our favor.

Jayādvaita: In our favor.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. The fish may be swimming in the water, but a sensible fish must inquire that "Who has created this water?" He is enjoying in the water, or in the land, so the enquiry should be, "Who's land it is?" We are demarkating this land "mine," he has demarkated this land "mine," but originally, who is the owner of this land? Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is God's property. That is natural. And God said, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). Somebody must be proprietor. I am proprietor of this land. Who is the proprietor of this water? That is natural question. If somebody is proprietor of this land, then somebody must be proprietor of that water.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: "Gradually, step by step, with full conviction, one should become situated in trance by means of intelligence, and thus the mind should be fixed on the self alone and should think of nothing else." Purport: "By proper conviction and intelligence one should gradually cease sense activities. This is called pratyāhāra. The mind, being controlled by conviction, meditation, and cessation of the senses, should be situated in trance, or samādhi. At that time there is no longer any danger of becoming engaged in the material conception of life. In other words, although one is involved with matter, as long as the material body exists, one should not think about sense gratification. One should think of no pleasure aside from the pleasure of the Supreme Self. This state is easily attained by directly practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Kulādri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, before you said the patient has no intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he requires spiritual master's guidance. Because he is rascal. What is the use of accepting a spiritual master? If you want to be cured independently, what is the use of calling a physician, consulting a physician? You do it yourself. (pause) Whether our cows are left now? We don't find cows.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, this is a common sense. If everyone is God, then what is the necessity of finding out a guru? Guru means who explains about God. Everyone is God, then what is the use of explanation? There is no need of guru.

Devotee (2): How can God be controlled by His own energy, illusory energy?

Prabhupāda: So many things. Foolish men can accept that, "Everyone is God, everyone is guru." That is foolish man's proposition and accepted by fools.

Devotee (2): It is explained in Back to Godhead magazine that (indistinct) serve Kṛṣṇa, serve God. If someone tells you that he is guru (indistinct).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So to accept a spiritual master must mean that one is in ignorance and one is enlightened.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It is foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think they're free from being controlled by the British, for example. Free from being controlled.

Prabhupāda: There is some meaning. That's all right. But where is your independence? You are fully under the control of the laws of nature. So where is your independence?

Yadubara: There is none.

Prabhupāda: Simply dog dancing is independence?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The real constitutional position of the living entity is that of subordination to the Supreme Lord, who is pure knowledge. When one is deluded into separation from this pure knowledge, he becomes controlled by illusory energy and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The illusory energy is manifested in the duality of desire and hate. Due to desire and hate the ignorant person wants to become one with the Supreme Lord and envies Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Pure devotees, who are not so deluded or contaminated by desire and hate, can understand that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa appears by His internal potencies. But those who are deluded by duality and nescience think that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is created by material energies. This is their misfortune. Such deluded persons symptomatically dwell in dualities of dishonor and honor, misery and happiness, woman and man, good and bad, pleasure and pain, etc., thinking 'This is my wife, this is my house; I am the master of this house, I am the husband of this wife.' These are the dualities of delusion. Those who are so deluded by dualities are completely foolish and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Prabhupāda: So even in the Vaikuṇṭha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not become Kṛṣṇa?" I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, sometimes he may think that "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that, they are trying to become God. That is delusion.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, controlled. That is their defect. They are being controlled in every step, still, they think they are free. That is their defect. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They are fully controlled by the laws of nature, still the great rascal, he's thinking that he's free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But gradually, they say, we will learn to control nature.

Prabhupāda: That gradual, that will never come, and that is their another foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they are seeing, though, that by their endeavors they are successful. Just like they may try to cure some disease, and then sometimes they are seeing that they are baffled. This leads them to think they are independent. This is leading them to think that they are independent, that sometimes they are successful.

Prabhupāda: No, they try their best, but still they are baffled. That means they admit there is some controller.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: But because they are all Dr. Frog, they are thinking that things are so far out of their control that no one can control it, that material nature is not controlled by anyone. They are thinking that because they cannot control material nature, then no one can.

Prabhupāda: But they are being controlled. They, themselves, being controlled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say nature means laws, impersonal laws.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, impersonal laws, but you are controlled, rascal. That you admit. Whatever it may be, you rascal, you are controlled.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: You've, I'm sure you've heard or read about these claims by these parent groups that claim that the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement members are, ah, sort of controlled by intensive indoctrination? Brain-washed they call it, you know, by getting up and having the two hours or three of chanting in the morning and prayer beads constantly and the group life, that they're sort of controlled, and denied their freedom. What do you say about that?

Prabhupāda: It is due to misunderstanding. They do not understand what kind of preaching, what kind of education we are giving. We are giving education how to become free from the hammering business in the jail. They think hammering business and keep oneself within the jail is the real life because they have been accustomed to that. And when we speak that "Hammering or to keep within the jail is not your real business: your real business is freedom," naturally they find contradiction, and they think that we are doing something against their business. That is the difficulty.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: You are also controller. So I may be a little greater controller, you may be a smaller controller and somebody may be greater than me. So in this way, if you study controllers, different types of controllers, you'll find there is junior and senior. The same person is senior controller in the family, but in the office he's a junior controller. The same person is junior and senior at the same time. Somewhere he is junior, somewhere he is senior. In this way, if you study all different types of controller, you'll see there is duality of controls, but when you approach somebody that He's simply controller—He's not controlled by others—that is Kṛṣṇa. This is analytical study of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So they have studied all these Vedic scholars, especially Lord Brahmā. This is the statement of Lord Brahmā. Not only Lord Brahmā, Vyāsadeva, Nārada and recently big, big ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, even Śaṅkarācārya and latest, five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya—everyone has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme controller. And in the dictionary you'll find... What is religion?

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?" But they agree to be controlled. But human life there is struggle. They are called struggle for existence. They are trying to overcome the control of material nature by so-called scientific method, but that is not the way. You cannot do that. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Just like their so-called scientific way. They are trying to go to the moon planet or Mars planet. Why they are trying to go?

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: If you actually want to be not to be controlled by the laws of material nature, that you can do. That is possible. And that is possible simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. So we are presenting this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a manufactured thing. We are quoting from Bhagavad-gītā the same thing. We are not presenting something manufactured. There is no need, because things in perfection is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is no need of manufacturing by fools and rascals. There is no need. Everything is there in perfection. Simply we have to accept it and apply it in practical life. Then our life will be successful. Simply we have to understand it. Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is... Then jānāti tattvataḥ, anyone who is able to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then what is the result? The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: (BG 4.9) "Such person, after giving up this body, he does not accept another material body." At the present moment we are giving up one material body and accepting another material body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: "A brahmacārī should be quite well behaved and gentle and should not eat or collect more than necessary. He must always be active and expert, fully believing in the instructions of the spiritual master and the sastra. Fully controlling his senses, he should associate only as much as necessary with women or those controlled by women."

varjayet pramadā-gāthām

agṛhastho bṛhad-vrataḥ

indriyāṇi pramāthīni

haranty api yater manaḥ

"A brahmacārī, or one who has not accepted the grhastha āśrama (family life), must rigidly avoid talking with women or about women, for the senses are so powerful that they may agitate even the mind of a sannyāsī, a member of the renounced order of life."

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: There are Hindus?

Guest: Oh, yes. Most of the business shops are controlled by Hindus. Also in the school, as well, there are lots of teachers, and education is managed by Hindus. But they are for years... (break) ...for hundreds and hundreds of years. You make this tour around the world once a year or twice a year.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I've gone round the world fifteen times within ten years. Naturally more than once in a year. And we have got branches all over the world.

Guest: I think the temples are increasing, particularly in Germany, England, and I suppose in America as well.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: And then "Our headquarters is in India."

Gargamuni: It must be always stated, "Our headquarters are India." If we say "foreign," that means we are controlled by foreign. We must publish everywhere that our head...

Prabhupāda: No, we have mentioned headquarters Bombay?

Jayapatākā: We just said offices.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: They think that Los Angeles is our headquarters.

Prabhupāda: That is for America.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: No no. You are also nitya, but you are part and parcel of that nitya. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). God is nitya, you are also nitya, God is also living, you are also living. What is the difference between the two? That one person He is maintaining all of us. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. So this is knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. God is one. I am also individual. But we are many because we are all living entities. But God is one. We are controlled by God or God's nature. We are not one.

Mr. Malhotra: Aren't we the images of God?

Prabhupāda: Apart from images... That is another thing. That we shall describe later on. First of all you cannot claim that you are God because you are under the control of material nature.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big ṛṣis. Sex life with animals also there is... Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyāsadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyāsadeva was born, Satyavatī. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parāśara Muni became attracted. And Vyāsadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Bṛhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatās, he became so much mad for his brother's wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahmā became attracted with his daughter. Lord Śiva became attracted with the beauty of Mohinī-mūrti, even in the presence of his wife. So this sex life can be controlled only by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No. Sex desire cannot be controlled by ordinary man. That's a fact. But they have invented so many things to stop increase of population. Why population is increasing? That is the point. They are killing and more... They're taking contraceptive tablets and so on, so on, a vigorous arrangement for stopping birth or checking increase of population. Why every second or every minute throughout the whole world three men are increasing? That they cannot stop. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). It is indeed troublesome, but you cannot stop it. Either birth or death or disease or old age, you cannot stop. You want it. Everyone wants.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are taking Kṛṣṇa on your level. You are such a rascal. You do not know Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddh... (BG 7.3), yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. You are taking Him on your level. Therefore you are trying to criticize Him. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is your ignorance. What is food for one is poison for others. So for you it is poison, not for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is God. He has everything. He can use everything. That is God. He is not restricted by anyone. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Who can restrict Him? Then He's not God. If by a third-class man like you He's restricted of His sex life, then He's not God. He becomes under your control. But Kṛṣṇa is īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). He's the supreme controller. How He can be controlled by your so-called goodness and badness? So the conclusion is you do not know Kṛṣṇa. You want to bring Kṛṣṇa in your level of understanding, and that is your foolishness. So we don't care for the fools like you. This is our conclusion. Avajānanti... That is replied.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You will remain within this material world. That is Mother's kingdom. This external world is controlled by the Mother Durgā. She's in charge of this material world. So if you become a perfect devotee of Mother, you get all good chances in this material world but not eternal life. Within this material world wherever you go everything is limited, either you become Indra or Brahmā, or ant. Just like President Nixon, so long he was President he was doing everything as he liked, and now he's an ordinary man, (indistinct). This is Mother's kingdom. Is that Mr. Nixon the same Nixon when he was President? But same Nixon is he, but the atmosphere and the circumstance is the same? Does he not realize it? "How I was enjoying as President and what is my position. Everyone kicks on my face." Is that very good position?

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Duṣkṛtina, only engaged in sinful activities, duṣkṛtina, and rascals, mūḍha, narādhama. He got the opportunity of this human life, and it misusing unnecessarily-narādhama. And their university education-māyayāpahṛta, useless knowledge, useless. Apahṛta-jñāna. Actually they have no knowledge. Why? The only fault is there is no God. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). So one... That is the basic fault. Everyone is trying: "There is no God. Science." This is the basic principle. So the whole human society is suffering on account of these fools and rascals. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is para-upakāra, how to bring them in peaceful condition, in normal mental condition, and make this life successful by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have to do it very carefully. It is para-upakāra. So always remember this fact, that they are..., the whole world is being controlled by āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, atheist class of men, and people are suffering everywhere. But Kṛṣṇa also descends when such condition prevailing. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). So now Kṛṣṇa has descended in His name. Nāma-rūpe kṛṣṇa-avatāra. So try to do some good to the society. You have got a great mission and don't deviate.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And just see democracy. People demanding that "You resign." He'll... (break) ...and from the very beginning, Pakistan is controlled by crooked men. They are Muhammadans, rascals, crooked, not cultured, crude. You won't find amongst the Muhammadans very great mathematicians, philosophers, or highly... Very, very rare.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not considered a very high birth.

Prabhupāda: Condemned, especially the Indian Muhammadans. I had one friend. He is of Afghan... (background noise) What is the trouble?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.

Bhu-mandala Discussion -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that is his dog's mentality, going round. That is dog. He is thinking that "This is the area. Now I..." He's controlled by superior power, that "You cannot go." An example is... There are so many. There are so many stars, moons, and we'll go there. But he cannot go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "We accept this premise, that we are limited."

Prabhupāda: But then limited, you cannot say final.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But we say within our limited means we can understand that..."

Prabhupāda: And limited means if you understand that "I am bound up. I am going round the law," that is all right. But don't say that "Beyond this limit there is nothing."

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi, brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these pāpīs and tāpīs. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). I have now explained how Kṛṣṇa became subordinate to devotee. (turns on dictaphone, plays back from tape:) "Yamarāja, controller of all living entities, is afraid of the order of Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is afraid of mother's stick. This contradictory thing cannot be understood by one who is not devotee. Devotee can understand how much powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, so much so He can be controlled by such devotee.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Here Kṛṣṇa has agreed... (break) '...my chariot...' (break) '...to execute my order. Place my chariot between the two party soldiers.' Kṛṣṇa immediately executed his order. One may argue in this connection that Kṛṣṇa is also not independent. This is ajñāna, ignorance. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. When He becomes subordinate to the devotees He is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Humor of transcendental qualities increases transcendental pleasure. One who worships Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore sometimes desires to be controlled by somebody controller. Nobody else... (break) ...pure devotee." (end of tape playback section) Everyone worships Him as the Supreme, but sometimes He desires, "Somebody will control over."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your purports have such wonderful realization. They are completely nectar to read and hear.

Prabhupāda: That I say.

Room Conversation -- October 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The strike instrument invented by modern civilization, so dangerous.

Hari-śauri: Means the government becomes completely controlled by the lowest working class.

Prabhupāda: Naturally. Without hands and legs, how one can function? Therefore Vedic civilization, that everyone is engaged.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Just like in our temples. Everyone is engaged in some service. We don't reject anyone.

Prabhupāda: No. The system should be made in such a way that everyone is engaged.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You had said that before a few times also. They are completely restricted in every respect. Whereas in other..., East European countries and in Russia, the professors may read various types of literature, in China they're not allowed to do that. And if they are ever caught doing that, they immediately are sentenced to prison and they lose everything. The difference in China as opposed to Russia is that in China every few years all the professors are made to be farmers. And also the workers in the factories and the farmers are the predominate controllers of the universities. They are not at all interested in culture or in higher education. Their whole purpose even for the universities is to train up loyal Chinese citizens. Everything is for that end. So no cultural interest would ever be tolerated on the part of the authorities there. And the people are so much controlled by these authorities that they would lose everything.

Prabhupāda: Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). (pause)