The other day while I was walking, I saw one advertisement of tourist agent. India, (indistinct) can view wonderful land. The wonderful land. Anyway, so I asked Karttikeya(?), "So India is considered very wonderful?" He said "Yes." Anyway, India is still considered the land of spiritual cultivation. Even one Chinese author, he has written that if you want to study religion, then you have to go India. He is impartial. He is not Indian nor an American or any country. He is Chinese. Chinese are considered to be Communist country, but he has very impartially said that if you have to learn what is religion then you have to go to India. Anyway India, actually it is the land of religion, dharma-kṣetra, although it has gone down at the present moment. But anyway, there are two sections in the..., amongst the Indian, bona fide religionists. That means bona fide religionists means those who are following the Vedic principles.
Communism (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
So monarchy or dictatorship is welcome. Now the Communists, they want dictatorship. That is welcome, provided that particular dictator is trained like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Not that simply by votes of some rascal population one becomes dictatorship, another rascal comes. Another big rascal comes. Just like in the Communist country the Stalin was their dictator. And in the historical record it is said that he is the greatest criminal in the history of the world. Greatest criminal. He would not tolerate anyone going against him. As soon as he finds that "This man is going against me," immediately call him, "Now here is poison and here is resignation." Or kill him. "You take poison or I shall kill you." This was his policy. In this way he killed so many enemies. He not only killed the Czar family. So his business was killing. Not that kind of dictatorship wanted. Dictatorship wanted that by his direction the citizens will be so happy that even they will not have any anxiety. Adhayo vyadhayaḥ (?).
If one, anyone says, "Oh, what God? We are creating our own food." Just like the Communist says. They are duṣkṛtina, rascals. But if anyone even goes to the church and temple for asking something to God, he is pious. At least, he has approached God. So one day when he will be advanced devotee, he will not ask any more. He knows that "Why shall I bother God? He is supplying everyone food, so why shall I ask Him food? My food is also there. Let me serve Him." That is his higher intelligence. That is higher intelligence, that "Why shall I ask food from God? God is supplying food to the cats, dogs, ants, elephants, and I want little food, he will not supply me? And especially when I engage myself in His service? Ordinary man pays to his servant, and I shall starve if I am engaged in the service of God?" This is intelligence. This is intelligence. "Why shall I bother God? If He likes, I will starve. That doesn't matter. But I must engage myself in the service of the Lord." This is intelligence. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). This intelligence comes after many, many births of endeavoring for self-realization. It is not easily comes.
So this bhakti, devotional path, is meant for satisfying the master of the senses. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). Hṛṣīkeṇa, by your senses, when you serve the Hṛṣīkeśa, the master of the senses, that is called bhakti. This is the definition of bhakti. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. Nārada Pañcarātra. So that is our business. We should under... That is self-realization. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God; nothing belongs to us. This is Bhāgavata communism. As the communists, they say, "Everything belongs to the state," we say "Everything belongs to God." We never say that anything belongs to anyone. No. This is Bhāgavata communism. So everything belongs to God. So one can utilize God's property as much as he requires, not more than that. Then he will be thief, he will be punishable. Just like father's property. Each and every son has got the right to live at the father's protection. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. That is spiritual communism. Whatever wealth is there within this universe, all belong to God, and we are, as sons of God, we have got right to take advantage of this wealth, but not more than what I require. That's all. This is spiritual communism. If you take more, then you become punishable. This is the law of nature.
So Arjuna was not a coward. He was a competent warrior. But still, dehātma-buddhi, the bodily concept of life is so strong... That Arjuna admits, dṛṣṭvā tu svajanaṁ kṛṣṇa: (BG 1.28) "My dear Kṛṣṇa, I have to kill my own men." What is that "own men"? "Own men" means this bodily relationship. Why others are not own men? Everyone is own men. Because everyone is Kṛṣṇa's son. So when one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can see everyone own men. And when he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he simply sees own men where there is bodily relationship. This is the defect. They are advertising, humanitarian work, philanthropic work, communism, this "ism," but when there is question of bodily relationship, immediately everything is changed. You know, the Communist country, the Khruschev was driven out because he was patronizing his own men. That was the defect. So you can advertise that "I am for everyone," but there is affection for own men. Nepotism. Nepotism. It's called nepotism. So many big, big leaders. Our Jawaharhal Nehru, he was sending his own men as ambassador. Vijaya Lakshmi, a woman, she was being sent as ambassador. She was high commissioner here. So this "own men" question is very prominent everywhere.
If you want the definition of bhakti, the bhakti means to use the things for the proprietor. That is right use. If somebody use for another purpose, that is misuse. So bhakti means, when things are used properly, that is called bhakti. Now we are thinking that this machine, this body, "I am born in India, so it is Indian machine. It should be utilized for India's profit." Another person is thinking, "This machine, it is gotten from America, so it should be used for America." That is going on in the name of nationality or communism, or society or friendship and this and so on. We have invented so many "isms," but they are all misuse because actually the machine does not belong to the American or the Indian or the African. The machine belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So this is misuse. So when we understand that we are misusing this machine improperly, that is called pure machine. That is called pure understanding, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). "I am not American.
So if actually you want to make classless society, then you have to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There is no other way. If you make artificially classless society, it will never be effective. The Communists are trying to make classless society. That classless society can be formed on spiritual platform, not on the material platform. This will be artificial. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). When one is actually advanced in knowledge... Advanced with knowledge means one should understand that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, or God." That is advancement of knowledge. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. And Kṛṣṇa is the supreme soul. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Simply by understanding that "I am spirit soul, I am Brahman," will not help us. You must act like Brahman. Then it will be... Janma, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). There must be realization; that is guṇa. At the same time, there must be practical work. That is Vedic civilization. You should not claim falsely.
So there is no question of Arjuna's considering whether he would fight or not. It is sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa; so fight must be there. Just like when we were walking, the question was raised that "Why war takes place?" That is not a very difficult subject to understand because everyone of us has got a fighting spirit. Even children fight, cats and dogs fight, birds fight, ants fight. We have seen it. So why not human beings? The fighting spirit is there. That is one of the symptoms of living condition. Fighting. So when that fighting should take place? Of course, at the present moment, by the ambitious politicians, they fight. But fighting, according to Vedic civilization, fighting means dharma-yuddha. On religious principles. Not by whims of political ideas, ism. Just like now fighting is going on on two political groups, the communist and the capitalist. They are trying to avoid only fight, but the fighting is going on. As soon as America is in some field, immediately Russia is also there. In the last fighting between India and Pakistan, as soon as President Nixon sent their Seventh Fleet on the India Ocean, Bay of Bengal, almost in front of India... This was illegal. But very puffed-up, America. So sent the Seventh Fleet, maybe to show sympathy to the Pakistan. But immediately our Russian friend also appeared there. And therefore, America had to come back. Otherwise, I think, America would have attacked on behalf of Pakistan.
This is the version of Kṛṣṇa in the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. So first of all it is said here, Vyāsadeva, the author..., not author, the compiler who recorded the talks between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna and then put it systematically in a book form. So he says that bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān means the Supreme Person. Just like in this meeting, amongst my students, I am the supreme person, similarly, in the state there is a supreme person, the president or the prime minister, so everywhere you will find out one supreme person. Without a supreme person nothing can be managed, order-giving person. This is everlastingly existing, and you cannot avoid this. Even in Communist country they also have the supreme person, dictator. So taking the whole universal affair, the nature, how things are going on... The sun is rising early in the morning. It is setting exactly in due time. Then the moon is coming. Everyone in big, big planetary system, they are working very systematically. The astronomical calculation is so perfect that, they say, one ten-thousandth part of a second is also calculated. So accurately things are moving.
Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important. To educate people. Because foolishly they are claiming God's property his property. Nothing belongs to us. Even this body does not belong to us. As soon as the time factor is finished, my body's finished... So I have got this body, say, for seventy-six years, age, and, say, after ten years, or five years, it will be finished. So before my body was created, the world was there, and when my body will be finished, the world will remain there. Then how can I claim that this world belongs to me? This is called illusion. This is called ignorance. Mūḍha. Mūḍha means one does not know to whom the property belongs, but foolishly he's claiming that "It is my property." This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, in other words, it is spiritual communism. The material communism, which is going on, that is defective, because this Communist movement is centered around the state. But when there will be perfect communism—īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), the center will be God, Kṛṣṇa—that will be perfect. When everyone will understand that Kṛṣṇa is the central point, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, when perfectly we come to that Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there will be peace and prosperity. Otherwise it is not possible. Therefore our... Of course, it is not possible that because the number of fools are greater.
Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). Your, at the time of death, whatever you desire, you get the next body. That is the nature's law. (break) ...had been in Russia, in Moscow, many young men there are, very much anxious to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And some of them were initiated by me. And they are going on. Just like these boys are going on. So this... So far my experience is concerned, everywhere I go, people are the same. It is by artificial, I mean to say, means, they have been designated as Communist and this and that. (break) ...people, they're all the same. As soon as we speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they respond immediately. That is my experience. Actually that is a fact. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya, śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya (CC Madhya 22.107). The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone's heart. It is dormant. But it is contaminated and covered by the material dirty things. So śravaṇādi, śuddha-citte. This means, as you are hearing... Just like these boys, these American and European boys, they came, first of all, to hear me. By hearing, hearing, now the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is awakened, and they have taken seriously to Kṛṣṇa devotion (break) ...or Africa or India. Everyone has got Kṛṣṇa consciousness within.
Now, the Lord says that karmaṇy adhikāras te: "Now, according to your quality and according to your position, you have to work. You cannot stop working. But you should not enjoy the fruit." That is... In other way this is a conception of spiritual communism. Spiritual communism. Now, just like in Communist country the center is the state. Nobody is private proprietor, but everyone is a member of the state, and whatever he earns, it goes to the state. That is... So far I know, this is the communistic idea. Now, here, if I am not entitled to take the result of my labor or my activity, then whom it is going to? Who shall enjoy it? So that is the conception of spiritual life. That means your earnings, your earnings, should be distributed to the central point. It should be through the central point. The central point is God. Instead of making central point to any limited things, if you make the central point God and if you work on His behalf and if you think that it should be enjoyed by the Supreme Lord, then your spiritual life is fixed up. Then your spiritual life is fixed up.
Because every one of us, we have surrendered to somebody. Analyze everyone. He has somebody superior where he has surrendered. It may be his family, his wife, or his government, his community, his society, his political party. Anywhere you go, the characteristic is to surrender. That you cannot avoid. That was the talk with Professor Kotovsky in Moscow. I asked him, "Now, you have got your Communist philosophy. We have got our Kṛṣṇa philosophy. Where is the difference in philosophy? You have surrendered to Lenin, and we have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difference?" Everyone has to surrender. It doesn't matter where he is surrendering. If the surrendering is correct, then the things are correct. If the surrendering is not correct, then things are not correct. This is the philosophy. So we are surrendering.
Kṛṣṇa did not come to establish the so-called Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion. No. He came to establish real religion. Real religion means we have to submit, surrender to the real person. That is real religion. We are surrendering. Everyone has got some idea. He has surrendered there. Either political, social, economical, religious, anything. Everyone has got some idea. And the leader of that ideal is also there. So our business is to surrender. That is a fact. But we do not know where to surrender. That is the difficulty. And because the surrender is mistaken or misplaced, therefore the whole world is chaotic condition.
We are changing this surrender to that surrender. No more Congress Party. Now Communist Party." Again, "No more Communist Party. This... This party, that party." What is the use of changing party? Because this party or that party, they are not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. So unless you come to the point of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be any peace. That is the point. Simply by changing from frying pan to the fire will not save you.
One should know. The Īśopaniṣad very nicely explains, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), everything, what you are seeing, they all belong to God. Don't claim yourself. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā also says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). "I am the proprietor of all planets." So this particular planet is also God's property. Actually it is God's property. We come and go. The property remains there. It is simple thing. So if we do not accept that God is the ultimate proprietor of everything... This is spiritual communism. And all living entities are His sons. Everyone has got right to live at the cost of God. Nobody should encroach upon the property of others. This is the system. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Just try to enjoy what is allotted for you. God has given you certain portion of land. "You Americans, all right, you have got this land. You be happy. Don't encroach upon others." "You Indians, all right, you become happy here." In this way we have to think. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Just like in political parties there are many leaders, but I like some particular type of political pursuit. Someone likes Democratic political pursuit; someone likes Congress political pursuit; someone likes Communist political pursuit. So we have got different desires. So practically, if we study very minutely, then we are not following the leadership but we are following our particular lust. I have got a particular lust within me, and when I find somebody corroborating with that particular lust, oh, I accept him, that leader. That is my position. Therefore I do not follow anyone's leadership, but I follow my own leadership. That is the lust. I want to do, I like to do something, and if somebody says, "Oh, yes, it is very nice," "Oh, you are my leader. If you confirm my lust, then you are my leader." That is the material leadership.
Just like the Americans. They are claiming this land is for the American group. Similarly, other nations, they're... but the land actually belongs to God. The land, the sky, the water, and the products in the land, in the sky, in the water, everything belongs to God. And we are children of God. We have got the right to live at the expense of father. Just like we live, small children. They live at the cost of father. Similarly, we also live by the arrangement of God. Why should we claim that this is our property?
This is the idea of spiritual communism. In Bhāgavata these things are stated, how to feel spiritual communism. In the spiritual communism... The present communists, they are thinking of the human being only. And the animals are being sent to the slaughterhouse. Although the human being and the animal is born in the same land... Actually, they are also nationals. National means one who's born in that particular land. So why not these animals, nationals? But because they have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they cannot think so broadly. They think nationalism means it is limited to the human being, not to the animals, not to the trees.
That is advised here. Evaṁ jñātvā kṛtaṁ karma pūrvair api mumukṣubhiḥ. Evaṁ jñātvā. First of all it is the business of brāhmaṇa to understand. So if you cannot understand, then you do the business of kṣatriya. If you cannot do that, then do the business of a vaiśya. And if you cannot do that, then remain as a worker. Assist others. Assist the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya. So everyone will be engaged. And it is the duty of the government to see that nobody is unemployed. Then it will be devil's workshop. There will be so much movement, Communist movement, this movement, that movement, because everyone is not employed. The unemployment, devil's workshop, that is breeding so many isms and that... Otherwise, if anyone is engaged into work, his brain will not be a devil's workshop. He will work something.
That is wanted. So we can do anything. Of course, according to the plan. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). We do. We act as a brāhmaṇa, we act as a kṣatriya, we act as a śūdra. It doesn't matter. But it must be kāma-rāga-varjitāḥ, kāma-saṅkalpa-varjitāḥ. Not for personal interest. So without personal interest, who can act? Nobody will act.
Now this communist country. The communist country, because they have killed personal interest, it is actually not developing. Not developing. I have seen it, personally. Because, as it is said in English proverb, "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." If I, one has got the sense that "I am the proprietor of this business," so he works very hard, and he turns sand into gold. There are many examples. A poor man starts... But because by his endeavor... Now here, in this country also, nowadays this endeavor is being decreased because the, they're afraid of the income tax. They're thinking, "We shall earn so much with hard labor, and the government, from the income tax department, they will take ninety-eight percent. So why shall I work?" So this is economic impetus.
Yes. Now if I think that I am poor man. Oh, the bank proprietor and directors they have got so much money. The theory of the communist theory. They have tried to attack others that they have snatched our money. Actually one should be satisfied. Just like a bank clerk or a bank cashier should be satisfied with his post and the wages he gets. He should be satisfied. If God pleases he will be elevated to higher position. That is God's grace. But we should not be disturbed. We should be śāntas... And thus disturbance can be checked only if we are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
You'll be surprised in 1942 there was an artificial famine in India by politicians and practically they were starving. And one American gentleman, very responsible man, he was present. He said that "In our country if such starvation would have happened there would have been revolution." But the Vedic culture is so nice that nobody even stole a pin from others pocket. They starved. Because the culture is they are satisfied. "Well, God has put me in this condition. Why shall I encroach upon other's property?" That is Vedic culture. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. Whatever He has allotted to me, that is my possession. I can... tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: "Whatever is allotted to you, be satisfied." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam: "You do not encroach upon other's property."
So Kṛṣṇa is teaching how to work, how to work. Now, here He says that tyaktvā karma-phala. Now, who will be ready to work? Suppose you are doing some business and there is expectation of profit, one lakh of rupees. Now profit comes. Then if I say, "Now here is, in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tyaktvā karma-phala. You give it up," are you ready? No. "I have with so much hard labor I have earned. Why shall I give it up?" But here it is said, tyaktvā karma-phala. Then immediately his impetus to work will be finished, that these ordinary persons, those who are karmīs, if I say that "Yes, you earn, I mean, lakhs of rupees, but you will not be allowed to take it..."
Just like the communist country. The communist country, they are engaging people to work, but you cannot take the result. The government will take. And therefore they are not very enthusiastic. I have been in your communist country. They are not very enthusiastic. That is, unless one can enjoy personally, he is not interested in any business. "Why shall I work so hard?" This is natural. But here it is said, tyaktvā karma-phala. What is the difference between the communist philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy? The communist also says that everyone should work without expecting the result. The result will go to the government. Similarly, where the result will go? It is communist proposal? No. That will be explained later on. Kariṣye... (break) ...is it meaning that, tyaktvā karma-phala. No. Tyaktvā karma-phala means that you should give it to Kṛṣṇa. That is tyaktvā karma-phala.
So Kṛṣṇa is teaching in this Fourth Chapter how to work. Yadṛcchā-lābha. Don't be greedy, so "This man is millionaire, so I have to become a millionaire." Competition. That is material disease. Now there is competition in between the capitalist and the communist. Now the communist or the laborer class men, they are thinking that "Why the capitalist should gain? We must gain. The industry is being conducted by us. The profits shall be divided between us. Why to the capitalist?" So that is not the solution. That is from frying pan to the fire.
Either the world is run on the principle of communistic philosophy or capitalistic philosophy, it will never be happy. Here is the formula, that everyone should be satisfied with the profit that he can easily make. That's all. Yadṛcchā-lābha. Not that everyone will have the same profit.
In material world everyone is working. Somebody is getting per hour thousands of rupees, and somebody is getting not even morsel of food. But still, one has to be satisfied. "Because one is getting thousands of rupees per hour, I will have to get also." No. Then you will never be happy. You be happy what you are gaining. Because everyone is making profit and losing according to his past karma. Pūrva-janmarjitaṁ dhanaṁ pūrva-janmarjitam vidyā, agre dhāvati dhāvati(?). This is the shastric injunction.
Now, suppose if there are hundred person in a society, twenty-five percent students, twenty-five percent retired life, and twenty-five percent sannyāsa, renounced order of life. Now, out of 100 persons, seventy-five percent, they are engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord. The rest twenty-five percent who are gṛhasthas, they are meant for sacrificing fifty percent of their income for this seventy-five percent. That is the whole program of varṇāśrama-dharma. That is a kind of spiritual communism. Spiritual communism. For spiritual advancement of a society, the whole social order is so arranged that seventy-five percent of the people, they are engaged in the matter of spiritual advancement of knowledge and twenty-five percent of the population, those who are earning, those who in family life, those who have got factories, business and so many things, they should sacrifices fifty percent of their income for these seventy-five percent persons who are engaged in spiritual emancipation. So that is the whole program. (aside:) Oh, I am very glad to see you. (laughs)
That is the whole program of varṇāśrama-dharma, varṇa and āśrama. Varṇa means that... You have perhaps heard, the caste system in India. That is called varṇa. The caste system which is now going on, that is a vitiated form of caste system. You have heard in the Bhagavad-gītā that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). This varṇa and āśrama is also creation of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa. That is not man-made. That is not man-made. So how that varṇāśrama is created?
As in the Seventh Chapter you'll find, that, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Now, after culturing many, many births knowledge, one comes to Kṛṣṇa and he understands, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa is everything, all causes of causes. He's the cause of all causes. Always remember. When I speak of Kṛṣṇa, He's God. God. God is the cause of all causes.
Now, in these days of Communism, the idea of Communism... Now, in the Kṛṣṇa science, there is very nice conception of spiritual communism, in the Kṛṣṇa science. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata you'll find that there was a discussion between Nārada and Yudhiṣṭhira, and Nārada was explaining that in this manifested material world, either in the higher planets or in this planet or in the outer space, whatever wonderful things and resources, material resources are there, they are all manufactured by the Supreme Lord. Just try to understand. Everything in this world, whatever there is, that is not done by any human being. That is done by God. Nobody can deny it. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Therefore all living entities, beginning from the ant to Brahmā, the highest human being or the highest demigod, all of them, they have got the right to use them. They have got the right to use them.
Now Nārada says that "You can use all these material resources as much as you require, but, if you want more, if you get more, then you'll become the thief, and you are punishable." Just see the idea of communism. Everything in the world, in this planet or in other planets... Just like people are trying to go to the moon planet. The Russians are trying to put their flag first so that if they go to moon planet, they will conquer. Just like you came from Europe. You have conquered this tract of land, America, and you have put up your flag. So now they are trying to go, trying to go to the moon planet. But this putting, I mean to say, this digging the flag, it is called ignorance. This is called ignorance. Where you are putting your flag? It is not your property. It is God's property. This is knowledge. This is knowledge. And if I think, "It is my property. I must dig my flag here," that is ignorance.
If you think yourself that "I am part and parcel of the state..." Sometimes there is some advertisement that "If you spoil this thing, you must know you are spoiling your own thing because the state is yours." Similarly, if I know the science of God, if I know science of Kṛṣṇa, then I am, my duty is to utilize everything for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, just like the same citizen who is conscious that "I am part and parcel of this state. I shall see that everything is nicely done for the interest of the state." In Communist state they are very much strict. In other state they are not so much strict but in Communist state, if you go a little against the state, you are immediately punished.
So this is real knowledge of science of God, that "I am part and parcel of God, so my duty is that everything is nicely done, everything is nicely preserved, everything is nicely utilized for the service of God." That is the knowledge of science of God. And I am personally... Of course, in your country there is no water supply hydrant on the street, but in India that is a system. On big roads there are supply, water supply hydrant, because there are many poor men who cannot provide water supply pipes in their house. They take from the street. So when I was passing... I do not know why. That is my habit. If I see that the water tap is open, I immediately close it. I do not like that the water is wasted, you see, because I think that "The government is spending so much money for supplying water, and this water is unnecessarily being lost. So why it should be?" That is also advertised in your country. When there is dropping in your bathroom the authorities request you to stop that because that drop of water costs many dollars for the management.
Now, this tape recorder is advancement now of material science. We should think, "Oh, this is the property of Kṛṣṇa." Let it be utilized in the propaganda work for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is proper utilization. So everything. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). Suppose if somebody says that "I am the proprietor everything of this room. So you have no claim." So we have actually no claim. We simply come. And the whole philosophy is... That is spiritual communism. In the Bhāgavata you'll find that this anything, all the richness, all the riches that is all over the world, all over the universe, that is created by God. So you are at liberty to make its use. You can take as much as you like. But if you claim proprietorship, then you make fault and you have to suffer. You can use them. There is no harm using. Kṛṣṇa has given, God has given us enough things. Now, why you are suffering? Why the world is suffering? Because we are trying to occupy it. "Oh, this is my country." He said, "This is my country. Oh, this is my property. You cannot come here. You cannot enjoy it." This is the trouble. But if we think, "Oh, it is all Kṛṣṇa's property. Let us enjoy it and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and be happy," then there is no disturbance. Automatically, peace is there.
So, now, Arjuna flatly says that "My dear Kṛṣṇa, the process which You have described is very nice process. But so far I am concerned, I admit that it is not possible for me. It is not possible." Now, we have to think that "What was not possible for Arjuna in such favorable conditions, and five thousand years before, how it is possible for me, a tiny living entity and disturbed by so many things at the present moment. My..." Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. They used to live for ten millions of years, and it is very difficult to live for fifty years or sixty years at the present moment. Utmost, a man lives eighty years. That's all. Then again, we are not such much advanced. We are always disturbed in our circumstances. There is disease; there is war; there is pestilence; there is famine—so many disturbances. So our duration of life is smaller, and at the same time, we are disturbed, and we are not intelligent, and we are unfortunate at the same time. At the present moment, you will find, 80% people, they are unfortunate. If we compare what is fortune or misfortune, then we'll find, in every country, 80% people, they are unfortunate, and therefore this world is getting to Communism because they are fighting. They are fighting. So this is the condition of the present day.
It is mental concoction that "Kṛṣṇa is Indian," or "Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by the Hindus; therefore He is one of the Hindu gods." He never said that "I am Hindu god; I am Indian." Just like the sun. If you say, "It is American sun," is it possible, American? Sun is sun. Why American sun or Indian sun? Nothing is American, Indian. It is all artificial. This planet, this planet also, it belongs to the human society, that's all. This is real communism. This is real communism. These Communists also, they are defective because... Just like the Russians. They say... (break) ...Russians or the Chinese. They are speaking that China is for the Chinese. Why not for others? Then what sort of communism it is? Just think in terms of the human community. Human community. So this... Why human community? Living being community. If you make this world as belonging to the human society, that is defective. It belongs to everyone. It belongs to the trees community, it belongs to the beast community. They have got right to live. Why should you cut the trees? Why should you send the bulls to the slaughterhouse? This is injustice. And how you can meet justice by doing yourself injustice? Because you have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You do not know that Kṛṣṇa is original father and we are all sons. The tree is my brother, the ant is my brother, the bull is my brother, the American is my brother, the Indian is my brother, the Chinese my brother. This is universal. Therefore you have to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness before you talk of this nonsense universal brotherhood and this United Nations and all this nonsense.
And everything, part and parcel means to serve the whole. That is also explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that the brāhmaṇa is the facial part of the universal form of the Lord, the kṣatriya is the arms of the universal form, the vaiśyas are the belly of the universal form of the Lord, and the śūdras, they are the legs of the universal form of the Lord. So the leg..., the head may be very important part of the body, but you cannot neglect the legs. If you want to keep the body in fitness, then the brain must work nicely, the hand must work nicely, the belly must work nicely, and the legs also must. Catur varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So actually classless society means when these brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they work for Kṛṣṇa. That is classless. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The idea of classless society can be achieved when people become Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is so important movement. Therefore I am speaking that the matter is placed before these Justices. Just try to understand. And for the benefits of the society, for the human society, for the human being, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be very seriously taken up by you. That is my point. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga. Here, either you become this party or that party, the real purpose of forming party is to enjoy, and they bluff the people that "I shall give you this thing, that thing." But actually I want somehow or other the post and I, bhoga vañcha... Either you become communist, socialist or capitalist or this "ist" or that "ist," the real disease is bhoga-vañcha, "How I shall enjoy this world." That is the real disease.
"O Kṛṣṇa, You are Para-brahman." Para-brahman. The word... There are two words: Para-brahman and Brahman. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that does not mean ahaṁ parabrahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: I am also spirit soul, but not the Supreme. Para-brahman is Kṛṣṇa. I am also īśvara. Īśvara means controller. You are also īśvara. Just like in this school, the teacher is īśvara in his class. He is controlling some students. I am controlling my disciples. I am also īśvara. So everyone can be īśvara. There is no... Everyone can be god. But we are using the word "Godhead." Just like there are some clerks and there is head clerk, similarly, we are all gods. The Māyāvādī philosophy, they say, "Everyone is God." That's all right. But you are not the head God. Head, there... If there is god, there are so many gods, there must be one head God. That is our natural experience. Anywhere you go, there are so many people, but there is some leader, head. I had some talks with one Russian professor, Professor Kotovsky in Moscow. So we had very long talks. At last I asked him, "Mr. Kotovsky..." I forget to..., "comrade." (laughter). But I said, "mister." (laughs) "So where is the difference between your philosophy and my philosophy, or our philosophy? You have to accept one leader, head, and we also accept one head. Then where is the difference between communism and other ism?" So he was stopped. He appreciated very much. "The difference is that you have accepted Lenin as your head and we have accepted Kṛṣṇa as our head."
If that is the identification, then he is not even human being. Ātma-tattva. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jāta. Everyone is born that "I am this body," but if he continues to remain under the impression that "I am this body," then whatever he is doing under the bodily concept of life, he is parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Everything is defeat, because he is doing under the bodily concept of life. So this so-called nationalism, socialism, communism and this ism, that ism—they have manufactured—they are all defeat, defeating. They are being defeated because next life he does not know what he is going to become. There are 8,400,000 species of life, and according to your work, you will offer, you will be offered...
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
So actually they do not know what is siddhi. They do not know. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). He does not know what is siddhi. He does not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These foolish persons, they do not know what is siddhi, and they are after siddhi. What is siddhi? Ignorance is not siddhi. It is parābhava. Siddhi is, real siddhi is, as Kṛṣṇa says, and in so many ways, that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā.. (BG 7.19). This is siddhi, to know Kṛṣṇa, to know Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is describing Himself, what He is. The foolish person, they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction.
Actually we are trying to get because we are eternal. We are trying to get eternal happiness. That is... Kṛṣṇa is speaking here. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ pravakṣyāmy anasūyave (BG 7.2). Anasūyave. Asūya means envious. Envious. Everyone is envious of Kṛṣṇa. That is demon. Just like Kaṁsa. In this tract of land, Mathurā, there was Kaṁsa. He was so envious that he ordered to his servant that "As soon as Kṛṣṇa is born, please bring the child. I shall kill Him." This is asūya. So at the present moment, practically the whole world, they want to be godless. The scientists and the..., everyone is trying to prove that "There is no God. There is no Kṛṣṇa. This is all sentiment." Especially in the Communist countries. So if you become demon, Communist, or in favor of them, then you are also infected with asūya, envious of Kṛṣṇa. Then you cannot understand. Then you cannot understand. Kṛṣṇa is very strict. But the devotees are very lenient. Kṛṣṇa doesn't want to speak even with demons. But the devotees are so kind, they go to the demons and pray, "Kindly hear. Kindly hear about Kṛṣṇa." This is...
Why shall I accept Kṛṣṇa as God?" This is the position of the bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī. Therefore you will find so many yogis; they can play jugglery, magic, but they are not devotees. They will not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is their... So such persons cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand because Kṛṣṇa does not disclose Himself to the nondevotees. So by their own attempt, however big yogi or jñānī or karmī he may be, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa discloses, reveals Himself, to the anasūyave, one who is not envious. And that is devotee. Anasūyave means devotee, who does not, who is not envious of Kṛṣṇa. Others, they are envious, Karmī, jñānī, yogi.
The karmīs will say that "You work hard, and get the result and enjoy. Why you are going to the temple to pray?" This is the philosophy of the Communists. "Why should you go to the church? Why should you go to the temple? Forget all these things. Work hard, earn money and enjoy life." But that is demonic. Because there is envy against God, they are demons. So the science of God or science of Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-tattva, is never disclosed or revealed amongst the nondevotees demons. It can be revealed, it can be understood by a person like Arjuna. Therefore it is said anasūyave, jñānaṁ te 'haṁ pravakṣyāmi. Anasūyave, this very word. We should never be envious to Kṛṣṇa and his devotee. If you think that "I will become... I am envious to the devotees, but I am not envious to Kṛṣṇa," no, no, Kṛṣṇa does not accept that kind of business. You... First of all, you should be nonenvious to the devotee. Mad-bhaktaḥ pūjyābhyadhikaḥ. "If you are envious to My devotee and if you become a devotee, that is not." That is stated that one who is directly devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is not devotee. One who is devotee through His devotee, he is devotee.
Come forward. Yes. And this is the process of devotional service. It is not very difficult. Everyone can execute. To think of God, to offer some obeisances to God, and to be, to serve something, to render some service unto Him, and just to become a party of God. That, just like we identify, everyone identifies to some party, either politically, socially or religiously, economically. We have got so many fields of activity. But, in each and every field, we have got a party feeling. You cannot avoid that. In political field, oh, we have got so many parties. Even in your own country, even there are democratic party or conservative party and this party, that party. Worldwide is also the capitalistic party, the communistic party. In our country also there is congress party. So party's already there. Socially also, oh, we are Christian, I am Jew, I am Hindu. Of course, this is religiously. And socially also. In India, there is very social party. So you cannot avoid this partyism. All ladies and gentlemen who are present here, I ask you, do you not belong to any party? Can you deny that "I don't belong to any party"? Oh, everyone belongs to some party.
Why one is put into one type of body, and why one is put in another type of body? One body is enjoying very nicely. Not enjoying, he is also suffering. He is enjoying for a limited time. He is also suffering. But he... Comparatively, one is situated in a very nice comfortable position, and the other is not. Therefore other is envious, that "Why this man is in a comfortable situation, and I am put into...? So let us become communist or revolt against this person or this group of person." In this way the struggle for existence is going on, and there is no solution.
How there can be solution because they are all uneducated, not educated? So if you want to be educated, make the solution of all the problems of the world, then you must take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This is the only solution. It will educate people the real identity, real position.
And as Arjuna is trying to understand what is prakṛti, what is puruṣa, what is kṣetra, what is kṣetra-jña, what is knowledge, what is knowable, these question are posed. Gradually we shall discuss.
That is wanted. In ignorance if we fight, there is no solution. In darkness if we fight, we may wound, I may wound you, you may wound me, but there will be no solution. So the whole world is in darkness. Therefore there is struggle. One is capitalist, one is communist, one is this, one is that, and there is struggle because everyone is in ignorance, māyā andhakāra, in darkness of ignorance. And Kṛṣṇa is light. Ignorance fighting will not make any solution of the problem. We must come to the light and take knowledge from the most enlightened, Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān.
So in this way we have to acquire knowledge. Not like blind men. But unfortunately we prefer to become a servant of a blind leader instead of Kṛṣṇa. This is our disease. We shall serve. I asked this question to Professor Kotovsky, that "Your communist philosophy and our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, where is the difference? You have selected your leader and you have sold yourself to the orders of Lenin. And we have also bowed down to Kṛṣṇa and we have sold ourselves to Kṛṣṇa. So on principle, where is the difference?" There is no difference. You have to select one leader. We have also selected one. Now if the leader is perfect, then my life is perfect. If the leader is wrong, then your life is wrong. So he could not answer this.
The principle is there. You have to select one leader and you have to act by his order. That is, that is our nature. Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu says: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Every living entity is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. When he forgets Kṛṣṇa he becomes servant of māyā. That is our position. We have to serve. Therefore self-realization means to understand oneself that "I am dependent on Kṛṣṇa. I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, let me engage myself to the service of the Lord." That is perfection of knowledge. Thank you very much. (end)
For practical purpose, even if we accept that the whole world belongs to Kṛṣṇa, God, and we are sons of God, we have got right to use the property of father, so you can use. But the difficulty is that we are claiming that "This portion is mine, this portion is mine." But if we don't claim like that, everything belongs to God, that is practical communism. If we accept the whole world as the property of God, make God-centered communism... The Russians, they are making the state-center communism. But if you make God center... That is Īśopaniṣad, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." And everyone has, that is stated in the śāstra, that everything belongs to God, everything is property of God, and we can utilize. We can use that. Yāvad artha-prayojanam. As much as we require, we can take.
Just like the birds and beasts. They are living on nature's condition. The bird will go to a tree and eat some fruit, but not more than he requires; neither he will take the fruit at his home to stock for next day or for making black market. No. We have created all this nonsense situation by claiming God's property as ours. This is the mistake. But the rascal leaders, they do not know what mistake they have committed in the beginning.
Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). Everything belongs to God. Therefore everything should be employed in the service of God. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy. We do not take anything which has no connection with Kṛṣṇa. We take everything... Just like we are using this microphone. We do not think it is material. Because it is being used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose, therefore it is spiritual. That is the difference between material and spiritual. When you accept it as your own or for your own sense gratification, that is material. And if you accept everything as Kṛṣṇa's and you simply take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, then it is spiritual.
Later on, when Nārada Muni came to see him, he was coming to receive the spiritual master jumping over the road. So when the hunter, now he becomes Vaiṣṇava, so Nārada Muni and his friend, Parvata Muni asked "Why you are jumping?" He said, "Sir, there are so many ants, so I was trying to save their life." The same hunter who was killing animals one time half-dead and was enjoying, is no more interested to kill even an ant. This is called saintly life. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Samaḥ, equal to all living entities. Not that simply protection should be given to the human being.
And the Communist philosophy also, there are so many defects. They also think of equal rights for everyone but why not for the animals? What right you have got to kill the animals? Similarly, the animal also kill you. So this is not organized society. The organized society should be that there should be first-class men, brāhmaṇa. They would give advice to the second-class men, the administrators. And the administrator class of men, they will see that everyone is following the religious principles. And the third class men or the mercantile class of men, they should produce food. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). You'll find here, I'll read it. So, in this way, there must be classification. Not that everyone is one. No, that cannot be. By nature's division... Just you try to understand from your body. The nature's division is there. Why nature has not made only the head? No leg, no arms. No. They are required. But they should not cooperate.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Therefore at the present moment they are becoming Godless because now people are advanced in education and knowledge. They think that "If I have to ask bread from God, so why shall I go to God? Let me earn money very nicely, and I can purchase bread. Why shall I go to church?" On account of this motivated religion, the communists are taking advantage, and they are preaching Godlessness. In communist country the innocent village people, they go to church and ask for bread, and when they come out of the church, the communist leader ask them, "Have you got bread?" So they say, "Now ask bread from us." So they ask bread, "O, communist leader, give me bread." So they supply immense quantity of bread: "Take as much as you like." So then they ask, "Who has supplied you bread?" They say, the communist leader. In this way they propagate, "Now there is no use of going to the church for asking bread from God." And they also practically see that "We, in the church we asked for bread. There was no supply of bread. And as soon as I prayed bread from the communist leader, there are so many breads." But the innocent people, they do not know that this communist leader has supplied bread not from his father's stock; it is from the stock of God. So they are innocent people. They do not know that actually bread is supplied by God because the ingredients of bread, namely the food grains, the wheat or the pulses, that is not made by communist leader. That is made by God.
Those who are demons, those who have developed this asuric bhāva... Asuric bhāva means denying the existence of God. That is asuric bhāva. There are two kinds of men: asura and devatā. Those who are accepting the authority of the Supreme Lord, they are called devatā. And those who are denying the existence of God... Now such demons are prevalent everywhere, especially the Communists. And others, they write, of course, on the note, "We Trust In God," but practically does not do anything. That is also another edition of demons: under the garb of believing in God, doing all nonsense. You see?
So na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Human life is meant for understanding what is God, what is my relationship with Him. And when he understands the relationship is there, "God is great, I am very small..." No. The rascal says, "No, I am God." And what, in which way you become God? God is great. Are you great? If I give you any slap, you immediately cry, and you're claiming God? You see. But these rascals are doing nicely, and fools are following, "Here is a God, incarnation of God." You see? So God is not so cheap. God..., our conception of God... Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is so powerful. It is stated in the Vedic literature: Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). Simply by the breathing of Mahā-Viṣṇu, innumerable... Just like we exhale and inhale and so many small microbes, germs, are coming out and going. This is a fact, medical science. Similarly, as microbes are coming and going, similarly, with the breathing of Mahā-Viṣṇu so many universes are coming and going. That is God. God, who can create unlimited number of universes simply by breathing. That is God. (aside:) Don't sleep. You can... So here, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
Indian: That is one
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the second point is that because He's the supreme proprietor, He's the supreme enjoyer. And generally, one who is enjoyer, people do not like. Now, just like these capitalists and the Communists. Capitalists they have made their program for becoming enjoyer. And the capitalists, uh, Communists, they do not like it. Because they known,"These people are enjoyers. They cannot fulfill our desires." But Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Although He's the supreme enjoyer, although He's the supreme proprietor, He is the best friend of everyone—suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29), suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām—He's not friend of the rich class of men or the... Just like we be, these political leaders, they become friend of the country. But they are their own party men. "I am Congress Party. I am this party. So I, I love my this party." And even if he loves all human beings, he sends the animals to the slaughterhouse. So he cannot be friend of everyone. But Kṛṣṇa is friend of everyone. You have seen Kṛṣṇa's picture. He's embracing the calf also, and He's embracing Rādhārāṇī. Not that He's simply attached to Rādhārāṇī and the gopīs. He's attached to everyone, every living entity. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūr... (BG 14.4). Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the best friend of everyone.
So if you want friendship, you make friendship with Kṛṣṇa. And because He's the proprietor, He'll protect you. These are the three points. Is that clear? Or you have got any question, you can question. Let it be clear. This is very intelligent question. So if we have to search out a friend, just search out Kṛṣṇa. Make friendship with Kṛṣṇa. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. He'll satisfy you in all respects. And He's not poor because bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He's... He's the proprietor of everything. What do you want? Everything will be supplied. He's so nice friend. So if you one understand these three points about Kṛṣṇa, then our life becomes successful.
What kind of love? Ahaitukī. To love God not for any other reason, that "God will give me some wealth, God will give me this, God will... I shall take from God this." No. Ahaitukī, no cause, that "Because I am in want of some money, therefore I shall go to church or temple or love God." No. Ahaitukī. Just like people generally go there like that, "O God, give us our daily bread." Well, why you are asking God for daily bread? Daily bread is already given to everyone, even birds and bees. Your bread is also there. But people do not know that "My bread is already there. Why I shall bother God for daily bread? Let me learn how to love God." God is giving us so many things without asking. God is giving us light, God is giving us water, God... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ... (BG 7.4). Everything He is giving you, without which cannot live. And He will not give us our bread?
So Bhagavad-gītā says they are also pious, even one goes to God for asking something for some material profit. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna (BG 7.16). Sukṛtina. Sukṛtina means they are pious. Just the opposite number, duṣkṛtina, they'll never go to God. Just like the Communists. They will say, "What is this nonsense God? We shall produce our food. We shall produce our happiness." They are called duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means sinful. Actually, they do not know that without sanction of God, you cannot get anything. So at least, one who accepts this power of God and goes to God for asking bread or something, money or something else, they are pious. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sukṛtino 'rjuna. But those who do not go at all, do not care for God, they are called duṣkṛtina. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
So therefore dharma first. That is the beginning of humanity, human civilization. Otherwise animals. The animals, they don't say, "I am Christian," "I am Muhammadan," "I am Buddhist," "I am this." No. He's dog. He's cat. That's all. Finished. But a human being says, "I am... I belong to this religion. I belong to that religion." That is required first. They are rejecting religion. The churches are vacant. That means they are becoming cats and dogs. That is not improvement. They are thinking that "I am now no more going to temple, no more going to church. I have come something, Communist or something like that." We don't care for these... That means you have got... This is the certificate that you have become animal. The animal never says that "I belong to this dharma or that dharma." No.
Therefore, distinction between animal and human being, that he must have some dharma. Dharma. And on religious principles, artha, economic development. Actually, if people become religious, then the economic development... Economic... You require some money to maintain yourself. So they will never be dishonest. Dishonest. In India still there are merchants, they would not take profit more than twenty-five percent, highest. There is no question of black market. "Now, I purchased this for one dollar. Oh, I am getting demand. I must charge five hundred times." No. That is irreligious. There are... Everything there is prescribed, that you cannot take more than this profit. So there was no black market, because people were religious.
So here it is said sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. Dharma... You have to execute your occupational duty, but, as Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is real dharma. "I am this. I am following this dharma, that dharma"—that is not dharma. Dharma means the natural instinct. The natural instinct is to obey the superior person. Every one of us, we are meant for obeying the Supreme. Is anyone... Who can say that "I haven't got to obey any superior person"? Is there anyone? That cannot be. You have to obey. That was the subject matter of my topics in Moscow, with Professor Kotovsky. I challenged him that "What is the difference between your philosophy and our philosophy? You have to obey some person, and I have to obey some person. So you are obeying Lenin, and I am obeying Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difference between you and me in philosophy? Now, the things remain to be judged, whether by following Kṛṣṇa I shall be happy or by following Lenin you shall be happy. That is to be judged, not that you, Communist party, you can do without following a superior person. That you cannot do. That is not possible." That is natural. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Our real formation, constitutional position, is to obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa. But we have selected disobeying Kṛṣṇa. We are obeying Lenin. That is the difficulty. We have to obey somebody. But you have selected not to obey Kṛṣṇa but to obey Lenin. In India disobedience is very prominent now. But in that way you shall not be happy. Therefore Bhāgavata says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaja (SB 1.2.6). If you learn how to obey the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, then you will be happy. Yayātmā suprasīdati. This is fact.
Similarly, here it is indicated that religion... What religion? Religion should be to disentangle you from this material miserable condition-dharmasya hy āpavargyasya na arthāyopakalpate. Not that you go to church or temple and ask for some material benefit. No. That is not the... Na arthasya dharmaikāntasya. Arthasya. We are earning money by some occupation. That's all. Then what is the purpose of this money? Now, if you are dharmic, dharmaikāntasya, if you are actually religious, then your money is not meant for sense gratification. Na arthasya. Dharmaikāntasya. Kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. Not for your sense gratification. You should know that this money, excess money you have got, it is God's money, because in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ (BG 5.29). He is bhokta. He is bhokta. Bhokta means enjoyer. Just like we were just coming here. This Ford company and this company and so many, there are. So the factory is going on. The bhokta is the managing director or the proprietor, not the worker. Worker can get their salary, that's all. So bhokta, real enjoyer, is the proprietor. Therefore nowadays the Communist party, they say, "We are working. Why this man should enjoy?" They struggle. So this struggle, either the worker becomes proprietor or the capitalist become proprietor, it is the same thing. Real proprietor is Kṛṣṇa. Bhoktāham. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. That we do not know. This kind of change will not help, the capitalist thinking that "I am bhokta," or the laborer thinking, "I am bhokta." Nobody is bhokta. Bhokta is Kṛṣṇa. If we try to understand... We can understand because bhokta means the proprietor. So God is the proprietor, everything. You are manufacturing one big nice car, but who has manufactured this metal? Who has manufactured this wood with which you have manufactured a nice car? That is manufactured by a God. You have not manufactured. You are changing the shape from iron to iron seat, iron seat to another form. That's all... You can do that. You cannot manufacture.
So here it is said, dharmasya hi āpavargyasya. Religion means to how to get out of these pavargas. That is dharma. Bhāgavata says, dharmasya hy āpavargyasya na arthaḥ arthāya upakalpate. Generally, people go to church, to temple, for some material benefit. Therefore śāstra says, "No, no. Dharma is not meant for that purpose." People have become materialistic more and more because, just like in our country, "If you want economic development, then why you should go to temple?" The communist theory is also like that, that "If you want material happiness, why you are going to church and accepting, 'O God, give us our daily bread'? The bread, you manufacture. You just work for it." In one side, it is good. But this is also fact, that without God's mercy, you cannot get even bread. Although bread you can manufacture, but the ingredients of the bread, the wheat, that is not in your hand. You cannot manufacture in the factory. That is in the hand of prakṛti, nature, and prakṛti is working under the control of the Supreme Lord. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). So it is prakṛti's business to control food supply when people become godless. That is prakṛti's business. Because prakṛti... These statements are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the story of Mahārāja Pṛthu. So prakṛti said that "Because people have become godless, demons, I have restricted my supply." Therefore everything depends on the mercy of the Lord.
So this is position. Therefore, because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are servants of God, therefore it is our duty to save this human civilization. You see. Kṛṣṇa wants it. And to save this human civilization, these two classes are required very urgently. So you American boys and girls, you are intelligent, you have got all facilities. At least in your country, create these two classes, brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya. The world will be saved, and you will be saved, and Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. Brāhmaṇa's business means that people should know what is God, what is our relationship with Him. That is brāhmaṇa's... And kṣatriya's business is to give protection to the people so that may all know what is God. That is kṣatriya's... And vaiśyas business is to provide food for them, production. And śūdras is to help all these three classes by their labor. This is social organization. It is not that everyone will become brāhmaṇa or everyone will become kṣat... No. At the present moment, the Communists are trying: "Everyone should be Communist." That is not possible. You cannot make everyone of the same class. No. That is not possible. You have to use your intelligence in such a way that these four divisions can work cooperatively and become perfect.
So there is complete arrangement. We have not seen. Paśyati jñāna-cakṣusā. Because we have no knowledge, we do not see how things are nicely arranged by God for our maintenance. Everything is there. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation). Everything is complete. It is our mismanagement. We, the so-called civilized human beings, we have created problems. We have created problems: "This is my land. This is my country. Why you are coming here?" Then there is fight, there is spoil of things, so many things. Because they do not know, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), everything belongs to God. The... Now they have developed the communist idea that everything belongs to the state. But that is also imperfect. There is no peace, still. Sthite sattvam. Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. What is that? Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. They do not know that we have to come to the platform of goodness, sattva-guṇa. Then there will be peace.
So we have become, instead of becoming servant of Kṛṣṇa, we have become the servants of our, these enemies. Practically they are enemies-kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Or in other words, we are servants of the three material modes of nature. But we are servant. That we cannot deny. So the whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that instead of becoming servant of these three modes of nature, you become servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is your original position. You cannot give up your position as servant. In the Bengali proverb there is a ḍheṅki. Svarga gela dan bange.(?) Means a ḍheṅki, that machine, that wooden machine, which... Husking machine? So if you send it to the heaven, then what he'll do? The same business. It does not mean the ḍheṅki, while it is promoted in the heaven, he can become soul or anything else. No. Similarly, we living entities, we have desire to enjoy this material world, but our position is servant. We have not changed our position. We revolted to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is all right. But what is your position here in the material world? That is also servant. Just like I told Professor Kotovsky that "Your Communism, what is the difference between your Communism and our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? You have selected Lenin as your leader, or master, and we have selected Kṛṣṇa as our leader, master. So on the principle, where is difference?" The professor could not answer.
So the professor could not answer, but he was impressed, that actually what is this meaning of Communism? You simply change of, change of master. That's all. And this is going on. All political leaders, they are going from one political leader to another. And he's exploiting. That's all. He, he is giving some manifesto that "If you give me vote, then I shall make you overnight a king." All false propaganda. And these rascals gives him vote and he again remains the same servant. That's all.
So they were subdued. But he himself is a rogue. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra. This is our experience. "Might is right." If you are stronger, then you can subdue less strong. But he became very much disturbing. He was atheist, and he ordered that "There is no God. I am God. So what I say, you have to abide." The brāhmaṇas were also... "You cannot perform yajñas. This is not required." In this way, he became too much disturbing.
Then one day all the brāhmaṇas and the sages, they came to give him instruction: "My dear king, it is not your duty to stop all kinds of religious activities." Just like the Communist government. Yes. But who hears? He said, "No. Why you are trying to pacify God? I am God. You just act. If you are actually God conscious, then you act according to my order." So when the sages and brāhmaṇas became disgusted, he was killed by the brāhmaṇas, by their order. You see? The brāhmaṇas were so strong. By simply cursing, they could kill anyone. So the Veṇa was killed. Then again the rogues and thieves came out. Then from the body of Veṇa, they created two sons. One son was black, and he was ordered that "You go to the forest." Because they could know that he was exactly son of the father. Niṣāda. Niṣāda. They were sent... He was sent to the forest. And then the King Pṛthu was born. The King Pṛthu, He is incarnation of, power incarnation of God. Śaktyāveśāvatāra So he proved himself as a great king on this earth. He produced foodstuff, foodgrains, profusely.
So there are some remarkable points in this verse. Dasyu-prāyeṣu rājasu. Rājasu means government. Rāja, king, or government. So monarchy is now abolished practically all over the world. Now it is democratic government. So this so-called democratic government or Communist government, as they are going on, they will become rogues and thieves, dasyu-prāyeṣu. All the rogues, thieves, plunderers, they will capture. Because it is by vote. So dasyu... Just like plunderers, rogues, they on the point of revolver, they take away your money, so they will take vote on the point of revolver. Actually, it is happening. In Korea it so happened, that sometimes the Communists are coming in power, and sometimes the capitalists coming in power, America and Russia. So poor people, as soon as there is Communist government, they are under the influence: "If you don't do this, then you'll be shot." By force. The people do not know what is government generally. They want to live peacefully. They want a secure place. So that is not their business, modern government. Their only business is how to collect tax and divide it amongst the government servants. That's all.
So this is the beginning of Kali-yuga. Only we have passed five thousand years, but the duration of Kali-yuga is 432,000's of years. So only we have passed five thousand years. In this way... This is called sandhyā, junction. I have already explained that junction means day and night. Day passing, night is coming, that is called junction. Morning passing, noon coming, that is another junction, meridian. So early in the morning and during sunset and in the middle, joining of noon, morning and noon, these are called tri-sandhyā. Tri means three. Three kinds of junction. So everyone has got this tri-sandhyā of his life. Just like in our life. When we were babies, children, that is the beginning. Say, up to fifteen years, sixteen years, that is one portion, sandhyā, junction. Then another junction, youthhood; then another junction, old age. This is the nature's way.
Thank you very much. (end)
Now, at the present moment, especially the famous movement, Communist movement, they are after completely driving out religious system. This is the misfortune of this age. So they are not in fault in one sense, because the guardians of the religious system, they are fallen. Just like immediately our Śubhavilāsa Prabhu was asking me that "We have seen so many temples. Why they are so neglected?" Is it not your question? And why they should not neglect it? The, mostly, the temples, they have become the means of livelihood. That is the defect. Temple is not meant for means of livelihood. Then it will deteriorate. How long you can falsely worship Deity and make show of ārati? You cannot go on very long time. That is not possible. You'll be disgusted. Unless there is feeling, bhāva, that "Here is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has very kindly come here to receive, to take, accept my humble service. He's so great that He cannot be approached by a person like me." Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān.
Just like Communist country, they do so. The Communist country, they make propaganda. In the villages. They ask the people to go to the church and ask for bread. They, innocent people, they ask as usual: "Oh God, give us our daily bread." Then when they come out of the church, these Communist people ask: "Have you got bread?" They say: "No sir." "All right, ask us." And then they ask: "Oh Communist friend, give me bread." And the Communist friend has taken a truckload of bread: "Take, as much as you like, take. So who is better? We are better or your God is better?" They say: "No sir, you are better." Because they have no intelligence. They do not inquire that: "You rascal, wherefrom you have brought this bread? Have you manufactured in your factory? Can you manufacture grains, the ingredients of bread, in your factory?" Because they have no intelligence.
Śūdra, they are called śūdra. Śūdra means those who have no intelligence. They take it, as it is. But one who is brāhmaṇa, one who is advanced in intelligence, he'll inquire immediately: "You rascal, wherefrom you brought this bread?" That is the question of the brāhmaṇa. You cannot manufacture bread. You have simply transformed God's grain... The grain, the wheat is given by God, and you have simply transformed. But transforming something from something, that does not become your property.
So those who are intoxicated, they cannot understand. They think: "It is my property. I have stolen, I have stolen this land of America from the Red Indians. Now it is my property." But he does not know that he's a thief. He's a thief. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). In the Bhagavad-gītā. One who takes the property of God, and claims his own, he's a thief. Stena eva sa ucyate. Therefore we have got communistic idea, the devotee, Kṛṣṇa conscious person. We have got Kṛṣṇa conscious communistic program. What is that? That everything belongs to God. Just like they are thinking that everything belongs to the state. These communists, these Moscow, Moscowites, or the Russian, or the Chinese, they are thinking state-wise. But we are thinking not state-wise. We are thinking God-wise. Everything belongs to God. The same philosophy. You extend. Simply you require little intelligence, little intelligence. Why do you think that this state belongs to a few number of people? If you think that there are population, American population, this land of America belongs to this population. Why do you think like that? You think this is property of God.
So durāśayā ye... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Then why people are leading in that way, the so many political leaders, social leaders? Nobody speaks of Kṛṣṇa. They are simply making plan... This party, the Communist Party, is making one plan. The other party is making plan; another party... But the world is suffering. So therefore they have been described in the śāstra: andha. Andha means blind, rascal They do not know. Actually they have no knowledge that without Kṛṣṇa consciousness the human society can be happy. That is not possible. They do not know this. But by Kṛṣṇa's grace, by our guru-paramparā's grace, we understand, we people who are conducting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, nobody will be happy. Therefore our struggle is different. We are trying to make the people actually happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu: "Everyone become happy." Otherwise, what is the use of collecting so much money and constructing such big building and inviting them, "Please come here. We have got nice room, and you shall get food without any hard work"? Why we are...? Still, they will not come. Still, they will not come. Now, in this village, we have got such a nice building. We invite, "You come here and..." But still, how many are coming? So therefore it has been used: kliśyamānānām. These rascals and fools must suffer, must suffer. There is no other way. Kliśyamānānām.
So this is māyā. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). We gather exactly like the straws, and on account of māyā's influence, we become very much attached: "Oh, here is my son. Here is my wife. Here is my family. Here is my..." And this is the, what is called, entanglement. Our main business is in the human form of life how to get out of this material world. They do not know. They not only create family but also society, community, nation, In this way we are embarrassed. The so-called nationalism, socialism and communism—simply moha, moha, exactly the same way as the small, that insects, under some illusion, moha, they come to the light and sacrifice their life. I have told you many times. We have seen in 1947, partition days, Hindu-Muslim fighting. One party was Hindu, other party was Muslim. They fought and so many died. And after death, there was no distinction who is Hindu or who is Muslim. The municipal men, they gathered together in piles and to throw them somewhere. Exactly the same way, the same insects, they come to the light and die in the morning, and we gather them together and throw in the street.
We are divisioned. Either you take it varṇa, āśrama, or by occupation, anything, there must be some division, not that everyone is the same. Somebody is engineer. Somebody is medical man. Somebody is chemist. Somebody is philosopher. Somebody is brāhmaṇa. Somebody is śūdra. You take. Division must be there. It is not possible to make everyone all the same. That is rascaldom. That is, means, they have no knowledge. Just like the communists. They tried to make one. They failed. That is not possible. Still, they are going on: "Laborer class and the manager class." Why you make two? So if instead of two, if we make four, what is the difference in philosophy? They could not do it. That is not possible. There must be, because Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: (BG 4.13) "The four divisions is created by Me." How you can nullify Kṛṣṇa's creation? That is not possible. So division may be there. It doesn't matter. That is created by Kṛṣṇa. But still, there can be oneness. What is that? Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Everyone try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then it is oneness.
Naturally... I have sometimes told you that we have got one Godbrother, German. He said that in the last war, in the first war, which started in 1914, so all the men were killed everywhere. And the women, they went to the church, either as wife or as sister or as daughter or as mother. Naturally, they prayed for their relatives to come back. But who is coming back? They were all dead. So they became atheist, that "There is no God." Because they prayed for their relatives to come back... So that is our position. We want to worship God if He becomes my order-supplier. "I will order and He will supply. Otherwise there is no God. I don't care for this nonsense God. He must satisfy my senses. I want this, and You must satisfy." Just like the Communists, they ask people in general to go to the church, and they say, "Now pray." So the Christian prayer, "O God, give us our daily bread." So when they come out, the Communist leaders, they ask, "Have you got bread?" "No, sir." "You ask us." They ask, "O my Communist friend, give me the bread." "Take bread, as many as you like."
So common men, they think that bread is coming from these rascals. But actually, bread is coming from God. So because God could not supply the bread in the church, they become Communists. This is the position. They take God as some solace, what is called, opium? Opiate. Yes. When there is no other source... And the whole over the world, they do not know, actually, what is God, what is our relationship with, what is God's function. That you will find only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That we can say very proudly. What is God, what is the philosophy, what He is doing, what is His name, what is His address, what is His father's name—we know everything. (laughter) That is our position.
So it is the duty of the Vaiṣṇava to see that people are gradually educated to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So perhaps it would be better if we can..., we also capture political power. As there are many parties, Communist party, Congress party, this party, that party, so there must be one Kṛṣṇa's party. Why not? Then people will be happy, if Kṛṣṇa's party comes to the governmental post. Immediately there will be peace. In India, in India there are so many slaughterhouses. There are... It is said that ten thousand cows are being killed everyday, in the land were one cow was being attempted to be killed, immediately Mahārāja Parīkṣit took his sword, "Who are you?" In that land, now ten thousand cows are being killed every day. So you expect peace? You expect prosperity This is not possible. Therefore if some day Kṛṣṇa's representative takes the governmental power, then he will immediately stop all these slaughterhouses, all these brothels, all these liquor houses. Then there will be peace and prosperity. Bhūta-bhāvana, Kṛṣṇa will be pleased, "Here is My representative."
So there are so many things to understand from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, full knowledge, all knowledge, as it is required by the human society. So we have to study from all angles of vision, not simply by sentiment. This is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Thank you very much. (end)
So introduce this. What is their loss? If everyone, home to home or work to work, factory to factory... Let them... Let there be factory, but chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Let all the factory members be engaged in chanting and the... supply them prasādam. Just see. There will be no more strike. There will be no more Communistic movement. Everything is there, provided they take it. Everything will be all right. So this is not a sentimental fanaticism, religious movement. This is scientific movement for the good of the whole world. That we have to convince by our character, by our behavior. Then people will accept it. They think it is another type of religious... So religious means fanaticism. It is not that. Just like they fought, the Mohammedans and the Christians. There was fighting? What is that?
Pradyumna: "Today's slogan is that 'Everything is for the people,' and therefore the government is for the people and by the people. But to produce a new species of humanity at the present moment on the basis of philosophy and religion on the basis of justice and peace, on the basis of God consciousness and perfection of human life, the ideology of godly communism, the world has again to follow in the footsteps of kings like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira or Parīkṣit. There is enough of everything by the will of the Lord, and we can make proper use of things to live comfortably without any enmity between men or animal and man and nature. Everywhere, the control of the Lord is there, and if the Lord is pleased, every part of nature will be pleased. The river will flow profusely to fertilize the land, the oceans will supply sufficient quantity of minerals, pearls and jewels, the forest will supply sufficient wood, drugs and vegetables, and the seasonal changes will effectively help produce fruits and flowers in profuse quantity. The artificial way of living depending on factories and tools can render so-called happiness only to a limited number at the cost of millions. Since the energy of the mass of people is engaged in factory production, the natural products are being hampered, and for this the mass is unhappy. Without being educated properly, the mass of people are following in the footsteps of the vested interest by exploiting natural reserve, and therefore there is acute competition between individual and individual, and nation and nation. There is no control by the trained agent of the Lord. We must look into the defects of modern civilization by comparison here and should follow in the footsteps of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira to cleanse men and wipe out anachronisms."
Prabhupāda: That's all. Thank you. (end)
So Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira used to come first of all in the morning, after taking bath, after worshiping, because first duty was to go and see the old men: "My dear uncle, you are all comfortable? Everything is all right?" And talk for some time just to please him. This is the duty for family member—take care of the children, take care of old men, take care of even a lizard in the house, a serpent in the house. This is the injunction we find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, gṛhasta, how much responsible he is. There it is said, even there is a serpent... Nobody wants to take care of serpent. Everyone wants to kill, and nobody is sorry to kill a serpent. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that, modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā (SB 7.9.14). He said that "My father was just like a serpent, vṛścika, scorpion. So killing of a serpent or scorpion nobody is unhappy. So my Lord, You don't be angry. Now everything is finished, my father is finished." So, that was. But still the śāstra says that even in your house there is a serpent, see that he is not fasting without food. This is the spiritual communism. They are now after communism, but they do not know what is communism. Everyone will be taken care of. That is communism, real communism. Nobody should starve. Nobody should have any want in the state. That is communism. So when we went to communist country, Moscow, I think everyone was in want, and they could not get even foodstuff to their own choice. Whatever government rules and all these thing will supply, they will have to accept. And actually there was no good foodstuff, for us. We were staying in that National Hotel, and Śyāmasundara had to spend at least two hours for getting things. That also not very nice thing. Rice could not be obtained. One Madrasi gentleman, he supplied us some rice, nice; otherwise only milk and butter is available, and meat, that's all. No fruit, no vegetables, no nice rice, and these things are not available. This is Kali-yuga. Things will be..., supply will be reduced. Actually the supply is made by Kṛṣṇa.
This is solution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyam: "This is My appearance on this material world, how God appears." Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā. Nobody takes birth. Even we do not take birth; we simply change body. So what to speak of God? God and we, we are qualitatively one. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). But He is the chief living entity. Just like you have got your chief American, means the president of your country, similarly, everywhere must be there, one chief man. Just like in the society, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, you accept me as the chief. So you have to accept one chief. Either you are a political party or social party or religious party or Communist party... Just like Communist party, they have got their chief men. Lenin, Stalin.
This question I asked... (aside:) Don't be sleeping. Professor Kotovsky. I asked him that "Where is the difference of philosophy between your Communist philosophy and our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy? You have to accept one chief man, that Lenin or Stalin, and we have also selected one chief man, or God, Kṛṣṇa. So you are following the dictates of Lenin or Stalin or Molotov or this or that. We are following the philosophy or the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So on principle, where is the difference? There is no difference." So the professor could not answer that. You cannot conduct your daily affairs without being dictated by somebody else. That is to be accepted.
Without following the principles, religious principles... The human life is given a chance by the nature, that "In this life you make a solution of this birth and death," janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). So these rascals do not know that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi is actually problem. They are simply trying to solve so many temporary problems. They do not know the real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Therefore, following the real religious principle means sad-dharma. That is lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, the greatest benefit to the human society—to stop their repetition of birth and death. That is the greatest... That is the business of the Gosvāmīs. Not this, this party or that party, capitalism and communism, this "ism," that... What they will derive? You may follow capitalism or communism or this "ism," that "ism"; after death, you'll be immediately under the grip of material nature, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). "Now all your so-called rascal nationalism go to hell. You become a dog. Finish." That is nature's course. You have treated your life like cats and dogs. You did not take advantage of your human life. Now nature will give you, "All right, again you become cats and dogs." Punar mūṣiko bhava. They do not know. They do not know the secret science of nature. You may be a very great leader, prime minister now. Next life you are going to be a dog in Scandinavia. (laughter) You see?
But how can you check it? What is your power? Suppose by nature... There are so many lives. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So you have to accept another body.
Akāmaḥ is one who has no material desire. A living being, naturally being the part and parcel of the supreme whole puruṣaṁ pūrṇam, has as his natural function to serve the Supreme Being, just as the parts and parcels of the body, or the limbs of the body, are naturally meant to serve the complete body. Desireless means, therefore, not to be inert like the stone, but to be conscious of one's actual position and thus desire satisfaction only from the Supreme Lord. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has explained this desirelessness as bhajanīya parama-puruṣa-sukha-mātra-sva-sukhatvam in his Sandarbha. This means that one should feel happy only by experiencing the happiness of the Supreme Lord. This intuition of the living being is sometimes manifested even during the conditioned stage of a living being in the material world, and such intuition is expressed in the manner of altruism, philanthropy, socialism, communism, etc., by the undeveloped minds of less intelligent persons.
Just like in free life you can go from this home to that home, in prison life you cannot do that. You must stay to your cell. So all these planets are like cells. We are trying to go to the moon planet; that is not possible, not in this way. That way is different. I have explained many times in this meeting. Because we are given a particular cell. Either we are Americans or Indians or Chinese or Russian, we have been given this planet. Live—you cannot leave it by your will. Although there are millions and billions of planets, and although you have got machine to fly, but because we are conditioned, checked by the laws of nature or God, you cannot go. Exactly like the man who is put into certain cell, he cannot change at his will without the superior authority. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that don't try to change this cell, from this cell to that cell. That will not make you happy. If you think, if a prisoner thinks that "I am in this cell. Let me request the superintendent of the jail to change my cell and I'll be happy," that is a mistaken idea. One cannot be happy so long he is under the prison walls. One should become free. That should be the aim of our life. So we are trying to be happy by changing the cell, by this "ism" to that "ism," by capitalism to communism, from communism to this "ism," that "ism." That will not make us happy. You'll have to completely change from this "ism," this materialism. That's all. Then you'll be happy.
Then adhidaivika. If there is no rain, there will be no food production, and the rice will go eight rupees per kilo. And you have to suffer. Durbhikṣa. Even people are not willing to give you bhikṣā. "Because the rice is so costly, how can I give?" That is called durbhikṣa. Durbhikṣa means when you do not get even bhikṣā. This is the most lowest profession. It is highest also. The sannyāsīs, they go door to door, bhikṣā. Brahmacārī go to door to door. Our Vedic civilization is that in the society there are four divisions: the brahmacārī, the gṛhastha, the vānaprastha, and the sannyāsī. Suppose there are hundred men in a village or in a place. The society is divided into four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha... So... This is material calculation. Suppose if there are hundred men, seventy-five men are to be considered brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsī. So these seventy-five men will live at the cost of the twenty-five men, gṛhastha. Gṛhastha has to give alms to the brahmacārī, to the vānaprastha, and to the sannyāsa. Just see how nice communism. The one twenty-five-percent group, they are earning, and they are maintaining seventy-five men. So they are living by bhikṣā. Brahmacārī will go door to door, "Mother, give me alms," and they'll give. The sannyāsī will go. So when this bhikṣā will not be available, that is called durbhikṣa, famine. This is adhibhautika. Adhibhautika, er adhidaivika. You have no control.
So the more we are in bodily concept of life, the suffering is more. Nowadays new things have developed: nationalism, communism, communalism, so many things. Sufferings are more. We have seen in 1947 in Calcutta Hindu-Muslim riot—more suffering because one is thinking, "I am Hindu," one is thinking, "I am Muslim." But if one is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then they will not suffer. They will not unnecessarily fight, "Because I am Hindi or because you are Muslim, therefore we have to fight." No. Because if both of them know that "I am not this body. Therefore I am neither Hindu nor Muslim. I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," then where is the suffering of Hindu-Muslim riot? The understanding is missing. Because people are being educated to become more bodily conscious, therefore their sufferings are increasing. Sufferings are increasing. And if you reduce this bodily concept of life, then suffering also will be reduced.
So this devotional service, this line of action, is so nice that if we practice, if we make advance, then even in this material world, staying, there will be no more suffering. That is called jīvan mukta. Jīvan mukta means although he is in this body, but he is not suffering the bodily miserable condition. It is a question of absorption of thought. I have read in some paper that Mr. Stalin, the communist leader, he had to undergo a surgical operation of operating on the belly. But doctor wanted to, what is called, chloroform, but he said, "No, there is no need. You can go on with your operation." So even in ordinary life it is possible. Because the mind is absorbed in a different way, even a surgical operation does not disturb a man. Similarly, what to speak of spiritual life, if your mind is always absorbed in Kṛṣṇa thought, Kṛṣṇa consciousness... That is stated mad-gata-cetasaḥ, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa advises also. What is His advice? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "You always think of Me."
But that we have rebelled: "No, why shall I be obedient?" Therefore it is said, evaṁ parābhidhyānena kartṛtvaṁ prakṛteḥ pumān. All the living entities in this material world, they are thinking that "I am proprietor. I am supreme. I can do anything, whatever I like. There is no question of accepting any authority of God. These are primitive thoughts. We are self-sufficient." That means he is speaking all nonsense under the influence of prakṛti. He is a rascal number one. Just like a madman speaks so many things full of rascaldom—nobody cares for—similarly, when a devotee sees that a nondevotee atheist is claiming so many things for himself without giving credit... Even big, big swamis, they are teaching that "Why you are giving credit to God?" The communists also. There are big swamis, they also say like that, that "You are working hard. You have got some good result. Why you are giving credit to God?" These things are being taught. And the atheist also says, "I have worked hard. I have achieved this nice result. It is due to my labor." And..., but when he is in loss, then the credit goes to God. Bhagavān ki chaya chalagiya(?) (laughter) When he gets something, that is his credit. And he loses something—that goes to the responsibility of God: "Why God has created so much trouble? Why God has...," so many things.
So every one of us, we are dependent on prakṛti. Caitanya Mahāprabhu described the constitutional position of the living entity. When Sanātana Gosvāmī inquired that "What is the constitutional position of us?" He ex... It is a fact. This is intelligence. It is a fact that we are under the control of the material nature, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14), and we are acting under the control of material nature. However great scientist I may be, however great politician, prime minister I may be, but when nature will say, "Please get out," we have to do it. You cannot, by your so-called scientific method, you can say, "No, no, I shall remain. Who can drive me away?" That is not possible. So this is a fact, that they are defying the authority of God. They say that "What is the use of accepting God?" because foolish. They...
Just like the communist class men, they say, "The religion is the cause of all falldown of the human society, religion." Therefore they are very much against religion. When I was in Moscow, in the airport, my custom checking was being done. So they found out one Bhagavad-gītā. So immediately the custom officer called police. So I thought, "Now my destiny is finished, because... (laughter) Because I know that these people send anyone to some unknown place. You cannot question." In our country that is also coming very soon. Anyone government can send anywhere. So the policeman, two policemen came. So they saw the Bhagavad-gītā. Of course, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, they said, "Oh, no, there is nothing dangerous. They can go."
So there are four sampradāyas of the Vaiṣṇavas. At the present moment they are known as Madhva-sampradāya, or Madhva-Gauḍīya-sampradāya; or Rāmānuja-sampradāya; or Viṣṇu Svāmī-sampradāya; and Nimbārka-sampradāya. Here in Bombay, Vallabha-sampradāya, they belong to the Viṣṇu Svāmī-sampradāya. So we have to approach the sampradāya. Without sampradāya, whatever we learn, that is not perfect. Sampradāya-vihīnās ye mantrās te niṣphalā matāḥ. Just like we have got very nice example that in political field there are parties: "This is Congress party," "This is Communist party," "This is..." So these parties are recognized. Unless you belong to some party, you cannot stand for election. As it is there in the political field, sampradāya-vihīnā ye, they cannot stand, similarly, if one person who desires to advance in spiritual life, he must take initiation from the sampradāya.
We have discussed this word in Kapiladeva's Sāṅkhya philosophy: sādhu. Sādhu is suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām. Sarva-dehinām means all living entities in all forms of life. That is called sarva-dehinām. "I am for Indians and not for the Englishmen or Americans," or "I am for the human being. I am not for the cows and goats. They should be sent to the slaughterhouse"—these things are happening on account of no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, limited, crippled ideas. And it is going on in the name of philanthropism, nationalism, communism, this "ism" and that "ism." These "isms" will not help us unless you come to the platform of Kṛṣṇa-ism, that "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Practically. If we accept... The United Nations, is working so hard, but they cannot make that the whole world belongs to all living being. Then immediately it will be... All questions will be solved. I was discussing this evening: there is so much land still uncultivated. And if the overpopulated people are allowed to go there and cultivate and grow their food grains, ten times of the living entities on this face of the globe can be fed without any difficulty. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14).
So everything is there, but we don't accept. Under designation, we are fighting, that's all.
So simply you have to train your mind. Man-manā bhava..., this, the prescription. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśaya. Kṛṣṇa says that "You, this practice," mām evaiṣyasi, "you will come to Me." Asaṁśaya. Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no doubt about it." So why don't you do that? Train your mind, always Kṛṣṇa conscious, and the method is simple. You do not require much education or university degree—nothing of the sort. Simply man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: you just become devotee of Kṛṣṇa and always think of Him. Where is the difficulty? You can walk on the street and remember Kṛṣṇa. Is there any tax? No, the government will not ask you for any income tax, sales tax, that "You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." They may do so. The time is coming. (laughter) They may say, "The Hare Kṛṣṇa people must be taxed three times because they are chanting and doing nothing." The Communist government will do that. So never mind. The tax will be sent by Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) You haven't got to bother. Still, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22), Kṛṣṇa says. You believe in Kṛṣṇa. Then every problem is solved. We have no problem if we simply follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Kṛṣṇa says, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 10.10). Even they tax for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will bring the money. We are getting that practically. So you know the history, how this land was purchased. There was no money, but Kṛṣṇa sent money and everything was done nicely. So there is no anxiety, provided we are purely Kṛṣṇa conscious, without any other desire.
He said that this Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the same Lord Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa advised, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This sarva-dharmān includes all our material activities. So, but people could not understand. The instruction is still standing, Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya, "Just simply surrender unto Me." But nobody is doing that. God says that, "You surrender unto Me; I shall give you all protection." There is assurance. But we are so unfortunate that we cannot believe or cannot be assured on the words of God also. We do not believe. "Oh, God cannot give us protection. Let me try my own technology. I shall protect myself." This is the world(?). That means he's not detached with these material activities. Kṛṣṇa says also that "You give up..." Just like we are also saying. There are so many proposals. They come, philanthropists: "People are starving. We have to see first of all." The Communists say, "Then we can discuss about spiritual... There are so many people starving," as if they have taken contract for feeding them. But these are only simply big, big words. They cannot do anything. Neither they are willing. They are simply after their own sense gratification. Otherwise, why so many people all over the world, there is voluntary starving? Just like the hippies. Why they are lying down on the street, on the park, no fixed-up program for eating, sleeping? They are not poor men's sons.
Acyutānanda: According to your observation, godlessness is responsible for scarcity. Then what about Communist countries compared with India?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Viṣṇujana: If godlessness is the cause of scarcity, why the Communist countries are so affluent?
Prabhupāda: They are asking food from America. (laughter)
Guest (2): Why is Kṛṣṇa consciousness not spread in China, Russia, Pakistan and Bangladesh? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You come forward. I shall train you.
Acyutānanda: Does Śrīla Prabhupāda agree with the work of Ramakrishna Mission, Maharishi, meditation, and Divine Light Mission now working in America?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Pañcadraviḍa: Do you agree with the work of the Ramakrishna Mission, Mahesh Yogi, and Divine Light Society that are working in America?
Prabhupāda: I do not study them. I simply study Bhagavad-gītā, that's all. And Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). I believe that. That's all.
o this is actually study—that you cannot change your fate. Already fixed up. The material condition of life, as soon as you get a certain type of body, your pains and pleasure already fixed up within the body routine work. You cannot make any change. Just like the—I have given many times—the pig, he's destined to eat stool. Therefore he has been awarded that type of body. So however you canvass this pig, "Why you are eating the stool? Take this halavā," he'll not take. It will not take. Because his destiny means he has got that particular type of body. So these are finer studies.
So according to the body, everyone's happiness and distress is already fixed up. You cannot change it. That is called fate. That is called fate. But you can change your fate if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is possible. So far your body is concerned... Take for example, just all of you, you were accustomed to the Western way of life, eating meat or drinking or illicit sex or so many things. But because you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you have stopped. Nobody can stop. No government can do it. Is there any possibility? Not possible. Not possible. Therefore, if you want to change your lot, your destiny, then you must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other way. This so-called rascaldom, philanthropism this "ism," that "ism," that will not be able to change your lot. Just like these Communist countries. In 1917, I think, the revolution was there, Communist. And what is it today? Nineteen seventeen, and it is 1973, '74. How many years? How many years?
Fifty-six years they are advocating this philosophy, Comm... What they have done? Now they are going to hold conferences, how peace. Why not peace by your philosophy, this Communist philosophy? What you could not attain working fifty-seven years, now they will attain by holding another conference. Just see. Just see the rascaldom. They could not improve anything. The same fearful of other countries. I went to Moscow. There, all people are unhappy. Their economic condition is not very developed. Simply advertisement. I was talking with that Professor Kotovsky, I asked him, "Please call for a taxi." So he was sorry, he said, "Swamiji, it is Moscow. it is very difficult to get a taxi." Just see what is the condition of the country. Then he came down personally up to the door, and he showed me one short cut, "Swamiji, if you go like this, in this way, then you'll get to your hotel." Because he was disappointed to give me immediately a taxi. Now we can understand. Either there is no demand for taxi... People cannot pay for it. That is the fact. Or the government arrange such that everyone is poor man. There is no possibility of thriving in taxi business or getting taxi. This is practical, I have seen. And actually in no other city in Europe and America I have seen so many people walking on the street. We can study. Just like there is rice cooking. You take one grain of rice and press it. If it is soft, then you know that now the rice is prepared. So it is intelligence required.
The same example, yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ (SB 4.31.14), the process is that you have to pour water at the root of the tree, then the tree will luxuriantly grow. But if you do not know the process, if you begin watering leaf to leaf, branch to branch, twig to twig, it will be simply waste of time. You can say, "I am pouring water on this leaf, on that leaf, on that..." It will take... You cannot. There are so many leaves in the tree, it is not possible individually, you can do it. But if you put the water, pour the water on the root, it is very easy, and all the leaves, and twigs, and flowers, and fruits, they get nourishment. That is wanted. Yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ, prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇām (SB 4.31.14), and by offering food to the stomach, all the indriyas, senses, they become vigorous or strong. Similarly, sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā, if you satisfy Kṛṣṇa, acyuta ijyā, then the whole society, whole community, whole living beings, everyone will be satisfied. If you simply push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then all different activities of the human society will be very, very, nicely performed. Or if you do this nationalism, communism, it will never be perfect.
So we have got example in our country, many countries, not only our country, your country also, that President Kennedy, he was killed. Many other presidents also—in our country Gandhi was killed—because in that way, you cannot satisfy everyone. It is not possible. The so called socialism, communism, altruism, humanitarianism, will never be able to satisfy everyone. That is not possible. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ jātā mayi na karuṇā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. These different types of isms, that is simply satisfying different desires. It is not the program.
So our real life is spiritual life, not this bodily conception of life. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that anyone who is above the bodily conception of life, he is liberated person. Saṁsāra bandhana Deha-smṛti nāhi yāra, saṁsāra-bandhana kāhāṅ tāra. Deha-smṛti: "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya." These are bodily conception of life. One who forgets this bodily conception of life, he is liberated. So how we can forget bodily conception of life? It can be forgotten. Just like one big person Sometimes we have seen practically. We have, of course, heard, we have not seen, that Mr. Stalin, the great Communist leader, he was to undergo a surgical operation of the intestine. So the physician, the doctor, surgeon, he wanted to give him anaesthetic, chloroform. He refused: "There is no need of. Let the operation go on. I shall see what is there within the belly." Strong-minded, here, even in material conception, he was, he undergo, underwent the surgical operation without any chloroform. So that is possible. If one is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he has no more bodily conception of life. That is not to be imitated. It is on the highest stage it is possible to forget completely, and he is liberated. Deha-smṛti nāhi yāra saṁsāra bandhana kāhāṅ tāra. He is no more conditioned by the material nature.
So how it can be possible? It can be possible. I have given already one crude example. Similarly, why Mr. Stalin could tolerate without any trouble? Because he was a leader. He was always absorbed in the thought of how he could advance the Communist cause. This is the real reason.
So we should be very much careful not to be afflicted by the karma. Karmānu bandha. This is very delicate task. Simply... (break) ...but they do not know what is the importance of the varṇāśrama-dharma. They have broken it. They don't like. They want to say classless society. Classless society cannot be. Even in Russia, the Communist country, they wanted to break down the classless society, but they cannot manage. They have now created a manager class and the worker class. Why manager class? Make it classless. But that is not possible. Therefore in the society there must be managers and the workers. Without this you cannot work, you cannot make, keep any systematic... So managers... The varṇāśrama-dharma: the managers, the brāhmaṇas and the kṣatriyas; and the workers, the vaiśyas and the śūdras. And less than that, less than the śūdras, the caṇḍālas, they have to be fully controlled, kirata-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā (SB 2.4.18), because they do not know the regulative principles of life. They are called caṇḍālas. So they are described in the śāstra. So the kṣatriyas, they used to keep these caṇḍālas under full control. Otherwise the society would be lost.
Unfortunately, there is no kṣatriya, there is no brāhmaṇa, there is no control of the caṇḍālas, and the whole world is in chaotic condition. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt. Because the caṇḍālas are majority and we are very minority. But still little portion of good thing is still good, and large amount of bad thing, that is bad. That is not good.
So our attachment is so strong. That even it is duḥkhālayam... Just like some hogs, they are living in filthy place and eating stool. And if you say that "I will take you somewhere else, a good place," then they will not go there. This happened. It is stated in the Bhāgavata that once the king of heaven, he was cursed to become hog. And he was living amongst the hog society. And when Lord Brahmā came to call him back, that "Mr. such and such, for your bad behavior you became hog. Now come back to heaven," so he refused, "No, I have got so much responsibility. I cannot go." You see? This is material... It is called māyā, illusion. Even you are in the most abominable condition of life, we will feel, "Now we are very happy." So that is our position. We do not want to leave this place. Therefore we create nationalism, Communism, this "ism," that "ism," because we want to stay here permanently. But unfortunately nobody will be allowed to stay even if you want to stay. That is the miserable condition of material life. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). So we have to leave this place. And when we leave, then, according to our proportion of sinful or pious activities, we get next body. So those who are very, very sinful, they go to the hellish condition of life, the planets. They are down this universe. There is the kingdom of Pluto, or Yamarāja. And he comes at the time of death, and the sinful man... Is very, very fierceful, odd looking, and they come to take. So here it is said that one who has once surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, for them there is no such fear. Even in dream they will not see the order-carriers of Yamarāja.
Yes, but sometimes... That depends on the person. Sometimes... Those who are pious persons, they know that these rats, they are also hungry and they should be given some food. That is the vision of the pious person. And that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that in your house you should see not only to the welfare of your children. Even there is a lizard, there is a rat, even there is a snake, you should see how he is also comfortably situated. That is spiritual communism. In Vṛndāvana still, a snake found in the house is never killed, snake. Still a rat is never killed. If you kill a rat in Vṛndāvana, then so many people will come: "Oh, you are committing such sinful acts. You are killing a rat." That depends on the mentality of the person. You can take care of this animal, I mean to say, against the disturbance created by this animal, but you cannot kill them. That is not. But when it is unavoidable, we have to do like that. But as far as possible we should avoid. We have heard from our father that his elder brother in the village had a cloth shop, and there were rats. So at night he would keep a big bowl of rice in the middle of the shop, and the rats will eat whole night. They would not commit any harm to the cloth. They respect it. They are also hungry, they are also living entities. They have also right to live, to eat. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything. They are God's creatures. The food is not only meant for you, that you shall simply eat rice and not allow to the rats and cats. No. That is not Vedic injunction. You will find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You can take precaution. After all, they are animals. But you cannot kill.
A kṣatriya never goes away from fighting. He is never afraid of fighting. He never, I mean to say, he is afraid of the challenge of the other party. Just like Jarāsandha. Jarāsandha was a kṣatriya, and he was... At the same time, a kṣatriya's quality is charitable. Formerly the kings, they would distribute! money like anything. They would collect money by taxing, but at the same time, they would distribute. The example is given in the case of Mahārāja Daśaratha, that he was exacting taxes just like the sunshine exacts water from the sea, and it turns into cloud and it distributes all over the planet. Similarly, the kṣatriya's duty is to collect... Government's duty is to collect tax, heavily tax. But the money should be distributed to all the citizens by different way. That is the way, dāna-bhāva-jam, not that I collect tax and I engage it in my sense gratification; I employ three hundred prostitutes for dancing before me. These are... This is the cause of falling down of monarchy system. Therefore people are in democracy. And the democracy is also failure. Every democratic member has become another debauchee. So therefore it is coming down to Communism, dictatorship. You see? So in this way things are changing. But actually, if they follow the symptoms of a kṣatriya, then it is good for the kṣatriya king and the citizens.
So therefore it is said here, etair adharmo vijñātaḥ. One who is religious or irreligious, there are so many witnesses. They inform. Kṛṣṇa personally sees also. He is there within the heart. So it is not very difficult for Kṛṣṇa and His agent to understand who is religious or irreligious. Just like I have said many times that our test tube testing is Kṛṣṇa's word that "One who is religious or unreligious..." What is that? Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna: "Four classes of men who are pious, they come to Me for worshiping." Who are they? Ārto arthārthī jijñāsuḥ jñānī, four classes. One who is distressed, he goes to God: "Sir, I am very much distressed. Kindly give me relief." Arthārthī, one is poor, he also goes, provided he is pious. The impious, they'll "Uh, what is God? I will do it." Just like the Communists, they say, "You are poor, so why you are going to the church? Beg from us bread." And poor men, they beg, and they give many breads, and they become atheist: "Well, we are getting from the Communist leaders bread. Why shall I go to church, 'God gives us, give me'?" But because they are poor, poor in knowledge, they do not know that the bread is coming from the Communist factory. It is coming from God, the wheat. That is not manufactured in the factory. But they have no intelligence. They think that "Our Communist friend, he is giving me bread."
What is called? No, honey, and bees, what is called? Mādhumakṣi? Bumblebees. Yes. So they collect a drop—from this flower, drop; that flower, drop; that flower, drop. In this way they make a big honeycomb. So a brāhmaṇas and kṣatriya, er, sannyāsīs, although they are meant for collecting, they do not collect heavy at a place. Little. Because they are collecting not for his sense gratification. He is collecting for satisfying Kṛṣṇa. So everyone is given chance, that "You give little. You give little. You give little," and whole thing is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. And just like here we have got the container of flour and container of rice. So although we are feeding two hundred men daily, still, it can be collected by muṣṭi. Everyone, gṛhastha, can come and place one muṣṭi attar. That is not difficult for him. He has got children, family. He is consuming five kilos of attar daily. Out of that, little, if it is put into the temple, he does not feel any burden. Therefore the collection... Sannyāsī, brahmacārī collects little, little, little from everywhere. That is called mādhukāri, exactly following the footsteps of mādhukāra, bumblebees.
So they are very... Householder, this is meant for the householder especially. This is ideal householder, that guru, agni, atithi, vṛddhānām. Old man also should be taken care of. Nowadays the philosophy is coming: "mercy-killing." "Old men should be killed to show him mercy." Because he is burden in the society, the communistic theory "Old man does not do anything and simply eats; therefore to show him mercy he should be killed." "Mercy-killing." Just see the philosophy: "Killing is mercy." But this is going on. "Mercy-killing." Is that? "Mercy-killing"? What is that?
For offering daily worship fruits, flowers, and samit, the kuśa, grass, everything is required for... His father ordered him, "Just bring all these things." He went in the forest to collect all these things, and while coming back he saw one śūdra was in embrace with a prostitute, and he happened to pass that way and he stood there and saw, attracted. Young man becomes attracted. Therefore these things should be very secretly done. Everyone knows that a husband, wife, have sex intercourse. But not like cats and dogs. That is human civilization. Not that on the road the boy or the girl is embracing, kissing, and having sex life. This is animal life. This is animal life. Simple they are educated to prostitution. Now, at the present moment, father, mother, sends the daughter for prostitution: "Find out a suitable man. Attract a suitable man. Don't marry abruptly. Just test this man, this man, this man, this man, this man. Then marry." So father-mother, they are teaching daughters prostitution. This is the condition of the society. How there can be peace? And they are after peace. They are making conference—"peace." By conference and passing resolution there can be peace? And the result is Naxalites, Communists. Huh?
Then her elderly son inquired, "Mother, why you are crying?" "No, where shall I accommodate all these people to lie down in the, at night? There are so many people in this village, and how I shall accommodate?" The son began to laugh. "My dear mother, you don't bother. It will be all arranged." "No, my dear son, I am very much perplexed." So she began to cry. So in the evening the son called the mother, "Mother, now you see in the marketplace." She saw, "Oh, where are all those people gone? Huh?" So there is arrangement. All those thousands of people assembled in the market, they have got their sleeping place. They have got their eating place. So by arrangement. There is arrangement. Similarly, there may be millions and millions of living entities; God has arrangement. If you calculate the human population and other living entities, the human population, especially the civilized human beings, are nothing in comparison to other living entities. There are millions and billions of living entities even in this store. If you find out a small hole, you will find millions of ants coming. They are also living entities. And who is arranging for their food? You are not very much busy to... Although it is your duty. That is also Bhāgavata communism. Bhāgavata communism says that even if you have got a lizard in your room, you must give him something to eat. If you have got a serpent in your room, you must give it something to eat. Nobody in your house should starve. You see? This is Bhāgavata communism, not that "Only my brother and sister will not starve, and other animals should be killed." This is not communism. Here is communism. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness communism, that a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is thinking even for the ant, even for the lizard, even for the serpent. That is real communism.
Not that, "Oh, my brother is good and I am good, and my father is good or my countrymen is good, my society, and all are bad." This is not communism. So the arrangement is there by God's grace. There is ample food. There is no economic problem. We have created our economic problem by so-called social arrangement. So Bhāgavata says that there is no economic problem. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. "How do you say that there is no economic problem?" The Bhāgavata gives... Bhāgavata means... Any authoritative literature, they must give evidence. So here Bhāgavata gives evidence that tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. Now, you never try to invite calamities, but sometimes calamities come upon you unexpected. There is some great loss. There is some calamity, distress, but you do not want it. How do they come? Similarly, even if you do not endeavor for your happiness, whatever happiness is destined to you, it will come. Don't bother about it. Simply bother for how you can make advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being instructed by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. From the beginning of life.
This verse we have been discussing in our last meeting. The purport is: "From very childhood, very childhood, the boys, the children, should be taught about this God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness." The mistake of modern civilization is that we are, I mean to say, bringing up spoiled children. So when they are grown up, if they become hippies or communists, it is not their fault. It is the fault of the guardians. It is the fault of the guardians. When the people become just something against the social convention, it is not the fault of the youngsters, but it is the fault of the education system, it is the fault of the parents, it is fault of the teachers. Because they are not teaching. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that from the very childhood one should be taught. I have seen in India. The Muhammadans, they are very much particular about it. The small children, within ten years, they are... From the very beginning they are taught Koran in the mosques. I have seen. In my Delhi headquarter, it is just behind the Jama Musjid. You have heard the name of Jama Musjid. That is the greatest mosque in the world. Many foreigners go to see it. It was constructed by Emperor Shah Jahan, say, about three hundred years or little more than that. So the Muhammadans, they are very particular to teach the Koran from the very beginning. That's a very nice system.
Therefore, this question I put to Professor Kotovsky, that "Your philosophy, Communist philosophy, and our philosophy, where is the philosophically different? Because you have selected a leader, Lenin, and you are worshiping him. And we have selected a leader, Kṛṣṇa, we are also worshiping Him. So where is the change? How we have advanced? You have selected another leader, that's all. You have to select. So the worship must go on. Either you become Communist or not Communist." So God says that "Instead of worshiping so many others, you worship Me." So, and man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). And "You offer my respect to Me." So these things... You may accept any type of religion; that doesn't matter. But think of God, worshiping God, offering obeisances God, that cannot be changed. Either you become Christian or Hindu or Muslim, it does not matter. These four things cannot be changed. Therefore, the principles of religion: thinking of God, worshiping God, offering obeisances to Him, and to become devotee of God, that cannot be changed. That is real religion.
Anyway, the vānaprastha, when the gentleman is completely educated for renouncing this world, then he sends back the wife to grown-up boys and he takes sannyāsa. This is sannyāsa dress. This is preparing, not... Preparing is finished. Sannyāsa means he should distribute spiritual knowledge from door to door. That is his business. He has no family attraction, he has nothing to think for his maintenance, because the society is advised to take care of brahmacārī, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Just see. This is spiritual communism. One section of people, the householders, they have to maintain the three other divisions. We have divided the society into four divisions: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Only the gṛhasthas are allowed to make money, to earn money. But the brahmacārī and the vānaprastha and sannyāsī is to live at the cost the gṛhasthas. Brahmacaris shall go from door to door and beg alms and bring it for the spiritual master. The spiritual master is a sannyāsī. So whatever the brahmacārīs bring, they cook and they eat and they cultivate spiritual Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the system. That means it is the duty of the gṛhasthas, or the householder, to maintain the other three section of the people. And that is varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ.
They also have begun chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. In England, the Beatles, or Beatniks, they are also chanting. So this is getting popular in the Western countries, and it will get, I am sure. So this chanting process introduced by Lord Caitanya should be seriously taken up so that our aim of human life will be successful. We have forgotten. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). We have forgotten... The modern civilization has... In your country I was reading a little history that in 1813 or some year the government introduced that "We trust in God," "Trust in God," and that was declared by the secretary to be published on the coins or on the paper currency, and we see sometimes. But simply trust in God is not sufficient. We must know what is God. Trusting something oblivion, something fantasy, that is no trust. You must know where to put your trust. That is Bhagavad-gītā. You have to know this, what is God. You simply believe in God... Faith in God is very nice. That is said then the... Very nice. It is better than godless person, that one who believes in God. That is all right. So this writing, that "We trust in God," it is very good. It is better than the communist countries, who say, "We do not trust in God." It is better. But simply official writing or trust will not do. We have to understand. And if you want to understand God, then this is the movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other alternative. You cannot place any other scripture collected from the world where the science of God is so elaborately stated, which you can test with all reason and argument. That is Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we have to learn the science. As you are learning so many department of knowledge, similarly, this is also another department of knowledge, to learn the science of God. The government should come forward to popularize this movement and to educate people in the science of God.
So, vitteṣu nityābhiniviṣṭa-cetā, if we become too much attached for getting money, that is the material world. There is no satiation. Idaṁ prāpta, that Bhagavad-gītā word: "I have got so much money, now my bank balance is so much, and I shall get further money and my bank balance will be like this." This is the demonic mentality. We shall require money, yāvad artha-prayojanam, whatever is absolutely necessary, that much money I must get. That is order. That is an order. We cannot take more than what is necessary. This is actually spiritual communism. If everyone thinks that "Everything belongs to God and I am son of God, so I have got right to enjoy the property of my Father, but as much as I require, not more than that," this is spiritual communism, bhāgavata communism.
That is stated there in the Seventh Canto by instruction by Nārada Muni: gṛhastha, householder, or anyone. By nature, you'll see, if you throw one bag of food grains anywhere, so many birds will come. But as soon as their belly is filled up they will go away. They will not take more than that for tomorrow. Sañcaya. That is nature. They know, "Tomorrow we shall get again somewhere grains. There is no need of stocking." This is nature you'll find amongst animal kingdom. Similarly, we should also learn that Kṛṣṇa has given us this belly, so He has provided also the eatables. That is real philosophy.
This belongs to me and that belongs to you"—instead of having the conception of īśāvāsya, that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, everything is pervaded by Kṛṣṇa, everything is created by Kṛṣṇa, everything is controlled by Kṛṣṇa; therefore everything is to be enjoyed by Kṛṣṇa. This is the process of analysis, that because everything is created by God, everything is controlled by God, therefore everything should be enjoyed by God. But if he does not have that conception and he thinks that "I, by the sweat of my brow, have produced this," that "I am controlling it," that "I have it under my control, even for a limited time, and therefore I can enjoy it, and you are enjoying something and I am enjoying something and I should be envious after what you have, and you should be envious after what I have," this conception of life... In this material world, even those who are apparently advanced in education have the propensity to consider "This is mine and that is for others," and therefore individually and collectively, among ourselves having this conception and among nations having this conception... That the vidvān, or the learned people in society, which today are the scientists, for the same conception, instead of realizing the glories of me who am controlling a part of it and you who are controlling a part of it and then making a division and a clash, competition, war, competition among ourselves individually—capitalism, communism, and among ourselves collectively—national wars, international wars—such a person is in an animal conception, vimūḍha. He's said to be bewildered.
This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you cannot do, if you cannot speak on Bhagavad-gītā or Bhāgavata or Bible or Koran—they're all books of knowledge, of Kṛṣṇa consciousness—you can simply say, "My dear friend, I've got one request to you." "What is that?" "Oh, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Is it very difficult? But this is very difficult also, because people will take it very lightly: "Oh, what is there, Hare Kṛṣṇa?" because he does not know that the Hare Kṛṣṇa has so much potency that one day you can catch the Supreme Personality of Godhead within your grip. It is got so potency, so much. But he will say, "Oh, what is this nonsense, Hare Kṛṣṇa? You chant. I don't like it." But it is your duty. He may take it or not take it. If you ask somebody, "My dear friend, please once chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," that is your duty finished. He may accept or not accept—that doesn't matter. You have finished your spiritual mastership. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' sarva deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Yāre dekha tāre kaha... There is no question of who he is, what he is, where he is born, whether he is civilized, uncivilized, capitalist, communist or this or that, Indian, American, African. Never mind. Whatever he is, simply request him, "Oh, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Do yourself, chanting, and this will make you advanced, and the friend you meet, oh, he'll someday, because the, if he takes Even if he does not say, if he simply understands that "Here is something," and says, "Yes, it is very nice. It is very nice," then also, he gets the result.
So these little boys who are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja mahā-bhāgavata, he is also playing the part of a child, immediately falling down, so these children who are here, even imitation, it will not go in vain. Kṛṣṇa is so kind as it is said here, sva-pāda-mūle-patitaṁ tam arbhakaṁ. Although they are innocent children, but when they're offering obeisances to Rādhā-Mādhava it is of value, "Yes, very good." It is going to their credit. It is not bad. Some may think that these boys are brought here and their life is being spoiled. They are not being educated in the modern way, they're simply chanting, dancing and offering, but that is the real education, tan manye adhitam uttamam, Prahlāda Mahārāja. Śravaṇām kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyām (SB 7.5.23), the devotional service. Tan manye adhītam uttamam, they are being first-class educated, these boys, they, simply by chanting and dance. Don't be disturbed that "My child is not being educated." What is this education? This education, this bodily concept of life, it is not education. That "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am white," "I am black." This education, the whole world this education is going on, nationalism. In the name of nationalism, communism, socialism. They are all bodily concept of life. That is not education. That education is useless, because this kind of education will not stop the process of birth, death, old age and disease. They may be technical education, temporary, some bodily comfort, but this is not taken as education.
You are all qualified boys and girls, I see. But still, if we calculate impartially, what is the advantage? The advantage: hand to mouth. You earn in the morning and eat in the evening—finished. You see? Such qualified boys that... I take, for example, Gaurasundara. He is thoughtful. He is educated. He knows so many things, artist. But for livelihood he has to go early in the morning and come late in the evening. So what is the result? This is the way of materialistic life. Life means that they should not work. Working hard, very hard working, that is the animal's business. The animal should be engaged to work hard for feeding, whole day. Just like the cow is standing here, sometimes eating this, sometime eating that, sometime eating that. What is the business? Only business: to fill up the belly. That's all. But after all qualification, if one has to do the same thing just to fill up the belly, working twelve hours, fourteen hours, then what is this civilization? Has this civilization given the opportunity that "Oh, you have no more to work. Simply sit down, every, all comforts." You can say some of the rich men, they are employing like that, but they are enjoying at the cost of others. They have made such machinery that hundreds of men will work for them and they will sit down and enjoy. What is the enjoyment? Women and wine. That's all. Therefore some, a section of people, revolting-Communists.
Now, Prahlāda Mahārāja begins his prayer, according to his capacity. So he first of all begins, brahmādayo vayam iva īśa na, na ca udvijantaḥ. He says, "My dear Lord, here all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahma, they are very nice people. They are not disturbing elements like us. Because we, I am born of the demon family." The demons are always disturbing. Their business is to nullify the existence of God. Therefore they're always disturbing. If there is a certain class of citizens, if they are simply after agitation that "This government is useless," that means they are disturbing. There are so many parties. They make agitation: "Oh, this government is nothing. We require a new government." Therefore in your country the communist movement has been statewise declared, "It is illegal." But in other countries the communist group will always decrying, "Oh, this government is nonsense. This government nonsense." So as the Communist Party is always disturbing to the government, similarly, the demons, the atheist class of men, they're always disturbing to God. How they can gain the benediction from God? They simply disturb Him. And there are different kinds of demons, different classes of demons. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Duṣkṛtina means... Krti means very intelligent, and... What is that word, if a man does something wonderful? Genius? Genius? Yes. So the genius, duṣkṛtina, "wrong genius." That means the materialistic persons, scientists, they're genius.
So maintenance cannot be taken by anyone except by God. Therefore this material world is being operated in three departmental qualities: sattva, raja, tama. Sattva is maintenance. Sattva means goodness. Goodness is maintenance. And raja means activity. Without activity, there cannot be any creation in this material world. If you want to construct something, there must be activity. Raja means activity. And tama means darkness. So these, these qualities are working. These qualities are working. Now, in your country, by the rajo-guṇa you have created so many things, a nice country, very nicely operating. But another side: the confusion is there, the hippies. You see? Future hope of the country is very dark. You see? It will spoil the whole thing if the country's not alive to the situation. This is another way of protest. Just like in Europe there are, in Russia there is communist, so this is another way of... So these qualities will work because this material world—one side, goodness; another side, darkness; another side, activity. This is going on. So as there are so many departments of activities, all these demigods, they are in charge of, director, director in chief. So brahmādayaḥ. Brahmā is in charge of something. Indra is in charge of something. The demigods, they're officers.
Actually it is. Nothing belongs to you. If you are intelligent, if you scrutinizingly study, everything belongs to God. Nothing belongs to me. Even this body does not belong to me. I have come with this body given by God, open-handed, without any asset. And I shall pass away from this world leaving this body open-handed. So actually nothing belongs to me. It is simply māyā, illusion, that we are thinking, "This is mine. This is mine. This is mine." This is the cause. Just like the Russians, they have occupied Czechoslovakia. They are thinking, "It is mine." Or somebody is thinking, "It is mine." This is the cause of... Because it is ignorance. But actually, everything belongs to God. If this sense is spread all over the world—"Nothing belongs to anyone but God, and we are all sons of God"—that is the best communism. Everyone—animal, man, everything—everyone has got right to live. Everyone is God's son. And the whole property belongs to God. If this philosophy is taught, then there will be peace. Otherwise there is no question of peace. So bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). And suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. And He is the friend, the sinceremost friend of everyone. Why not? If we are sons of God, who can love more than the father? Naturally, there is affection and love of the father towards children. Don't you find it, how He is providing? Even, although we are disobedient, still, He is supplying all the necessities of our life. He's supplying light, He's supplying water, He's supplying air—the essential necessities of your life.
So if you want to be peaceful, happy, you have to again bring in the Vedic culture, simple life and high thinking. That is wanted. If you introduce more and more anarthas only, unwanted things, how you can be happy? We have to minimize even whatever we absolutely require. Absolutely we require āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. It has to be curtailed. That is civilization, not that increasing. This is a misguiding civilization. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is a civilization where a blind man is guiding a few others or many other blind men. So what is this civilization? The leader, he is a rascal. He does not know what is the aim of life, and he has become leader. So many talking. When I was talking with Professor Kotovsky, so I asked him this question, that "After all, you are required, you are in need of a leader. So you are being led by your Lenin philosophy and we are being led by Kṛṣṇa philosophy. So where is the difference in the procedure? You require a leader; we require a leader. That is wanted. Without leader we cannot go. But if you select a bad leader, blind leader, then you remain blind." That, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is that you have to accept one leader. That you cannot avoid. Either you become communist or capitalist or this or that, you have to accept one leader. So take the best, first-class, perfect leader: Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise it is not possible.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Pradyumna: "The rasas derived from our feelings in social life, in family life or the greater family of altruism, philanthropism, nationalism, socialism, communism, etc., do not guarantee that one's next life will be as a human being."
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know that. The so... There are so many welfare workers. But they do not know even that there is next life. This is the position of the present civilization. Because I may be a great philanthropist, but my next life will be according to my karma. Just like by becoming philanthropist I may do so many sinful activities. Because when one is mad after something... Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20). When, then his knowledge becomes bewildered. They do not care to do anything, either sinful... Generally, they act sinfully. But according to our acts, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), the superior authority will examine your karma. Not so-called philanthropism. Actually philanthropism has no meaning because, according to the law of karma...
Pradyumna: "The rasas derived from our feeling in social life, in family life, or in the greater family life of altruism, philanthropism, nationalism, socialism, communism, etc., do not guarantee that one's next life will be as a human being."
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no guarantee. That... Yes. Now today I am very great leader, minister. That's all right. But after death there is no guarantee that you'll become again minister or big man, big business man. There is no such guarantee. That we'll have to accept another body according to your karma. Suppose as business man, I've done very nicely. I have given in charity. That's nice. You get better life. But for business sake, I have earned money by hook and crook, my mentality's just like crocodile or dog; then I have to become a crocodile. That's all. Because after death you are in the hands of nature. You cannot dictate that "Give me this and that body." No. That you have to prepare in this life. If you prepare yourself in this life to go back to home, back to Godhead, you go back to home, back to Godhead. If you prepare your, this life as a crocodile, then you become a crocodile. So God is very kind. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). So it is your business to what kind of body you are going to get next. Just like the example I was giving last night. That we are staying in this room, and suppose after a month we have to give it up. So we must find out another apartment. It may be better or it may be lower. There is no guarantee. But if we can arrange, we can better apartment than this. And if we cannot, we may go to hellish apartment. This is the way. But for the devotee, at least it is guaranteed that he gets next life as a human being. Not only human being, but in the family of a devotee, or in the family of rich man. These alternatives are there.
So that means at the present moment all the leaders, they're fools and rascals. They are simply sectarian. "I am good. My brother is good. My father is good. All others bad." That's all. Nationalism, communism, these are going on. But a Kṛṣṇa-bhakta, he does not see like that. He does not like to kill even an ant. That Mṛgāri, he was a hunter. He was killing animals half-dead. And he met Nārada Muni, so he became a Vaiṣṇava. And when he became a Vaiṣṇava, he was not prepared to kill even an ant—the same hunter, who was killing other animals half-dead, and he was taking pleasure. So this partiality is not in Vaiṣṇava. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ. Vaiṣṇava, he's a friend. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇam.
"These four types of devotees have been described in the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, and they, they have all been accepted as pious. Without becoming pious, no one can come to devotional service. It is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā that only one who has completely executed pious activities and whose sinful reactions of life have completely stopped can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Others cannot. The neophyte devotees are classified into four groups: the distressed, those who are in need of money, the inquisitive and the wise—according to their gradations of pious activities. Without pious activities, if a man is in a distressed condition, he becomes an agnostic, communist, or something like that. Because he does not firmly believe in God, he thinks that he can adjust his distressed condition by totally disbelieving in Him.
"Lord Kṛṣṇa, however, has explained in the Gītā that out of these four types of neophytes, the one who is very..., who is wise is very dear to Him because a wise man, if he is attached to Kṛṣṇa, is not seeking an exchange of material benefits. A wise man who becomes attached to Kṛṣṇa does not want any return from Him, neither in the form of relieving distress nor in gaining money. This means that from the very beginning the basic principle of attachment to Kṛṣṇa is, more or less, love. Furthermore, due to his wisdom and study of śāstra and scriptures, he can understand also that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead."(break)
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
The guru, the spiritual master, he's also Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ **. In all the śāstras, guru is accepted as Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena. Sākṣād means directly. Just like you offer your devotion, respects, to guru. So that respect is offered to Kṛṣṇa. Guru also does not think himself that he is Kṛṣṇa, but he collects the devotional services of the disciples to offer to Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. We cannot approach Kṛṣṇa directly. We should approach through guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). That is the injunction of the śāstra, that one should approach the guru who can transfer the service from the disciple to the Supreme Person. So... Therefore the first offering is guru, vande gurūn. Then guru creates many devotees. Guru's business is to canvass on behalf of Supreme Lord. That is guru's business. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), so, "You give up all material, engage..." Sarva-dharmān means in the material world we have created so many so-called duties. This is our material disease. People are interested in material engagements and they have created different varieties of engagements. Sociology, communism, and this "ism," that "ism," philanthropism, altruism, internationalism, nationalism—many, many duties they have created. That is all material. Kṛṣṇa, out of His causeless mercy... (children crying) Stop that children. Out of His causeless mercy, He comes, He descends. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Glānir, this is glānir. Human life is meant for one thing, athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the Supreme Absolute Truth. But instead of doing that, they have created so many "isms." That is their misfortune.
Real business is athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life, nature, gives us the opportunity to inquire about the Absolute Truth. We have got the intelligence. The cats and dogs, they have no intelligence to inquire about the Absolute Truth. The trees, the plants, the aquatics, the animals, the beasts, the uncivilized man—so many, 8,400,000 forms and species of life. Out of that, the civilized men, the Aryans... Ārya. Ārya means the person who has got godly qualification. This is the meaning of Āryan. Āryan, advanced. Āryan does not mean godless society. They are non-Āryans. Real Āryan means... Because we are part and parcel of God, naturally we have got, in minute quantity, the qualities of God. That is natural. But on account of our material association, those qualifications are covered now by upādhi, by various designations. This is our material disease. Material disease means... Just like a gold is covered by dirty, dirty things. Similarly, we are actually gold, because part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are a small Kṛṣṇa, very small, but we are also the same quality. But it is covered. This is our disease. And these coverings are going on in different names—socialism, communism, and this "ism"—so many. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am white," "I am black"—these are all designations.
So you all, boys and girls, those who have come from America, I am very much thankful to you. But don't be less serious. Be very serious. And another thing I'll request especially to the Americans, that America has got good potentiality to save the world, so if you preach very nicely in your country... And not all of them will be interested, but if a section of men in your country, you can turn them to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it will be great benefit to the whole world. But the aim is the same, punar-janma-jayāya: to gain victory over this process of birth, death and old age. This is not fiction; this is fact. People are not serious. But you can teach your people; otherwise, the whole human society is at risk. They are like animals, without any... Especially this communist movement is very, very dangerous—to make a big animals. They are already animals, and this movement is making big animals.
So I am speaking to America because America is a little serious against this communistic movement. And it can be counteracted because the process is current since a very, very long time. Deva asura, devāsura, the fight between the demigods and the demons. So the same fight is there in different name, "Communists and the capitalists." But the capitalists are also eighty percent, ninety percent demons. Yes. Because they do not know the science of God. That is demonic principle. So there is good chance in your country to make them, or they rectify their demonic principles. And then they will be very, (I) mean, strongly able to fight with the other demons.
So there are three principles—the īśvara principle and the māyā principle and the jīva principle—these three principles. So Advaita Ācārya is īśvara principle. He belongs to the īśvara group. Even in communistic country, they call "classless society," but they are also creating a managerial class. They cannot do without that. They could not avoid it, managers. Why manager? Make classless society, all worker. That is not possible. There must be īśvara. Īśvara means controller. That is the beginning, from the creation, īśvara. So īśvara, there are innumerable īśvara forms, as it is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Many, many, many millions and trillions of īśvara forms... It is stated in the Bhāgavatam that many... How many, how you can calculate? That is compared—just like in the river or in the ocean there are waves, but you cannot count how many waves are there. That is not possible. Can you count the waves of the ocean, going on, day and night, waves? Similarly, in big, big rivers... So God's incarnation, they are coming out, innumerable, just like the waves, but we can understand by the action that He is incarnation of God.
Bhakta-śakti, everything requires strength, so we can derive strength by chanting Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You don't require very high education, neither you require to take your birth in very high family. Ahaitukī. Execution of devotional service is independent, completely. It has nothing to do with material condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. No material condition can check. Who can check it? If all the world over they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, who can check? No government can check, no communist party can check. Go on chanting; that is the principle. So ahaituky apratihatā yenātmā suprasīdati, and you will get individually and collectively Where is he? Haridāsa, he went to Moscow? He has gone (indistinct). He was chanting in Moscow. So people could not understand, they were asking, "What you are doing?" "I am singing some cinema song." (laughter) He was telling like that. Very clever. (laughter) "I am singing because the Muscovites, they are after Indian culture." So he said that "This is Hare Kṛṣṇa cinema song."
They're made for reminding me that "Your relationship with Kṛṣṇa is eternal. Why you have forgotten? Therefore you are suffering." We have discussed the śloka, verse, that bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād īśād apetasya viparyaya-smṛtiḥ. Vipa... Because we have taken a, a reverse position for, for, forgetting the Supreme, therefore we are put into anxiety. Because we have taken a reverse position. "Who is God?" Viparyaya-smṛtiḥ. This very word is used. Viparyaya means topsy-turvied. "Your memory has become topsy-turvied. Therefore you are suffering." But he will not agree. "No, we shall adjust. We shall make laws. We shall make agitation. We shall form party and go on defying God, and we shall be happy in this way." So this godless civilization is now generating the Communist party. So the dangerous position, we are coming.
So anyway, one who takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa, he'll not be put into danger. Rest assured. So 'kṛṣṇa'-sambandha, 'bhakti'-prāptyera sādhana. So I have to revive my relationship. Relationship is there; simply I have forgotten. So I have to revive it, or remember it, that "Oh, I am such and such." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). I have to become a great soul by surrendering unto God. So that surrendering process is bhakti, or devotional service. My relationship is eternal with the Supreme. I have forgotten it.
There is a system. In the process of this material world there is a system. Just like for maintenance of your state, United States, there is system of government, and there is an aim. Just like your government does not like that..., there should be no Communistic persons, and you write that "We trust in God." It is better to trust in God. You have got a system. Similarly, the maintenance of the whole material world, there is a system. It is not blind. Foolish creatures, they think that everything has come out of nothing, and it is being managed by nature. No. Behind nature there is God. In the Bhagavad-gītā you have learned, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "Under My superintendence the material nature is working." Material nature is not blind. Just like foolish person, because he cannot see President Johnson and the governmental personalities, they think, "It is going on. Nobody is there behind this government, and it is going on." So similarly, persons who have no knowledge in the affairs of this material world, they think that "This material nature is working, and automatically, by magic, the sun is coming out, the moon is coming out, and the season is changing, and everything is going on just like magic, and we are the master of everything." Never think..., these foolish persons never think that they are not masters, they are servant, servant of the material nature.
So if anyone derides the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then... That means we must have impetus to know. But one who has no such impetus, he is called demon, or asura. So asura, one who does not want to understand the position of God, for them, Kṛṣṇa says that tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān. Dviṣataḥ means there is a class who are always envious of God. As soon as you speak something about God, they become fire: "Oh, what is this God nonsense?" So they are dviṣataḥ. Dviṣataḥ means envious. They cannot even tolerate the name of God. "Don't talk of God." So it is not now individually infection; it is now worldwide. And therefore, the result is that the Communist party is developing all over the world due to this godlessness. And we have got experience, personal experience, in our selling our books, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I have seen many gentlemen, as teachers and educationists. As soon as he sees Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, "Oh, it is about God. Oh, we cannot purchase. We cannot purchase. Because it is God, therefore we have no connection with it. We cannot purchase." Such is the mentality. So that, by that such mentality, godless mentality, atheistic mentality, the people of the world, they are not happy. But still, they are fools. Because they are fools, they'll not take to God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But it is our duty to canvass, to request.
Festival Lectures
So this illusion means māyā. māyā... If you want to get out of this illusion, māyā, then you have to accept the Kṛṣṇa's formula. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā for guidance if we accept the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Everything is there. Peace is there, prosperity is there. So that is a fact. Unfortunately, we do not accept it. That is our misfortune. Or we misinterpret it. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me," man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. "Become My devotee." Mad-yājī, "You worship Me." Māṁ namaskuru, "And offer obeisances unto Me." Is it very difficult task? Here is Kṛṣṇa's Deity. If you think of this Deity, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, is it very difficult? Man-manā. You come into the temple and, just as a devotee, offer your respect to the Deity, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. As far as possible try to worship the Deity, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Kṛṣṇa does not want your whole property. Kṛṣṇa is open to the poorest man for being worshiped. What He is asking? He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: "With devotion, if a person offers Me a little leaf, a little fruit, a little water, I accept it." Kṛṣṇa is not hungry, but Kṛṣṇa wants to make you devotee. That is the main point. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. That is the main principle. If you offer Kṛṣṇa little things... Kṛṣṇa is not hungry; Kṛṣṇa is providing food for everyone. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. But Kṛṣṇa wants your love, your devotion. Therefore He is begging little patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. There is no difficulty in understanding Kṛṣṇa and to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But we'll not do that; that is our disease. Otherwise, it is not difficult at all. And as soon as we become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we understand the whole situation. Our philosophy, Bhāgavata philosophy, is also communism because we consider Kṛṣṇa the supreme father, and all living entities, they are all sons of Kṛṣṇa.
So this is knowledge. We should understand that everything belonging to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, nothing is manufactured by us, so He is the proprietor; but because we are His sons, we have got the legal right to enjoy the property of the father. That is all right; that is real communism. This is actual understanding of communism: everything belongs to God. Just like the Communists, they are thinking everything belongs to the state, and the citizens must work and enjoy. So our philosophy is the same. Only difference is that they are, what is called, ignorantly accepting the state is the proprietor. No. If they accept God is the proprietor, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, then Communism is very perfect. That is missing. That is missing. Actually, God is the proprietor. What is the state? That is artificial. This state, American state, or African state, Russian state, these are artificial. Actually the land belongs to God. We are demark: this is India, this is Russia, this is America. That is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand this fact:
- īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ
- yat kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat
- tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā
- mā gṛdha kasyasvid dhanam
They are not satisfied simply by his personal comfort. In political history also, you will find so many great leaders. They sacrificed their own comforts. In your country there was George Washington. He sacrificed so many. There were other leaders. In every country, in political field. Similarly, social field also. Even the political leaders, the Marx, they also, he was also compassionate by seeing the terrible condition of the Russian peasants, so he started that communist movement. That is the way. Great men, they work for the general mass of people. They are not... That is their greatness.
So Advaita Prabhu, when He found that people are simply engaged in eating, sleeping, and they are not, they have no concern with Kṛṣṇa, and their life is being spoiled, so He wanted to start this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, say, about six hundred years ago, but He considered Himself as unable to take up this movement seriously because the condition of the people was so wretched. He thought that "If Kṛṣṇa Himself comes, then it can be done. Otherwise it is not possible." So Advaita Prabhu called Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His call, He appeared, Kṛṣṇa appeared. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was almost like grandson of Advaita Prabhu. But when He was young man, a very beautiful youth, so at that time nobody knew, but Advaita Prabhu knew that "He is Kṛṣṇa. He has come." So He was simply... Sometimes devotees pretend to be not in knowledge. So He was praying Kṛṣṇa, "This boy is very nice. If He takes up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then it will be very successful. He is very intelligent, beautiful."
Arrival Addresses and Talks
All of them are going to Russia to take birth. Yes. Not Russian people are bad. That is a mistake. Some of them. Some people are good. That I have experienced. Otherwise how... (aside:) Don't do that. Otherwise how that Anatole came to become my...? And there are many like that, mostly like him. It is by artificial suppression that it has been advertised, "The Russian people are all Communist." That's not fact. That's not fact. Simply some rogues and thieves and demons, by threats... It is a country of, what is called? Terrorism. A terror. People have decided to leave this country, but they cannot leave. Mostly Russians, they want to leave that country, and some of them already done so. Many Russians have fled away. Many Chinese men have fled away. They don't like this philosophy.
Yes. They do not enquire why breaking and building? Why not permanent? That question does not arise, and they cannot solve it. They think this breaking and building is the nature. But we are giving information of another nature, which there is no breaking, no building-permanent. They cannot believe it, that there is such thing. What is that? (break) ...carvita-carvaṇānām. That is chewing the chewed. They never question, "Why breaking and building? Why not permanent?" We are doing the same thing with our body. We are breaking. As soon as the body is old, we are breaking and accepting another body, again building. Again old, again breaking, again entering another... This is going on. But the question does not arise, "Why? I don't like this breaking and building, but why I am put into this condition?" That is intelligence. Who wants to die? No. Even a very old man—he is suffering from so many things—still, if somebody comes, "Oh, I will kill you," he says, "Oh, no, no, no! Don't kill me. I don't want to die." Why? If somebody says that "You are old man. There is no use..." Now this is coming. The Communists, they are coming to that point, "This is an old man, simply eating. He is not doing anything. So finish him." What is called? Mercy...?
So the human life is meant for understanding what is the position, "What I am?" This is intelligence. When Sanātana Gosvāmī approached Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu he was minister, very big man, but he understood that "What I am doing is not to my interest, because I do not know what I am." He submitted to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍit satya kari māni. "In my relationship with my neighbors, they call 'paṇḍitajī.' " He was brāhmaṇa. "So I accept it, 'Yes, I (am) paṇḍita.' " So what is the wrong? "The wrong is that I am such a paṇḍita that I do not know what I am." (laughs) So ask anybody. Our Dr. Sukla is also... (chuckles ) So ask any doctor, "What you are?" "Huh? I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa." This answer you'll get. "I'm American." Nobody will say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Nobody will say. Nobody will say because he does not know. So what is the value of this education if one does not know what he is? Therefore śāstra says parābhavaḥ. In ignorance, gross ignorance, anything you are doing, that is parābhava. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to save the people from this defeating position. We are trying... So far I have tried single-handed. And now the, a little pressure is felt even by some American politicians. Recently one American politician has remarked that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is just like epidemic. (laughs) And if we do not take any step then within ten years they'll take our government." So the Communists in India, they are trying to defeat us in so many ways.
Because they are also afraid. Because the Communist movement means godlessness. And our movement is, "Here is God." There is no blind faith. "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa! You take His name, you take His address—everything." Practical. So that is a great cause of fear for these Communists. So they are against us. So now I shall request the śreṣṭhas, those who are leading persons in India, they should join this movement, take it seriously. It is not a bogus movement. It is a scientific movement. And we have so many books. Now, at the present moment, we have got eighty-four books. So that is my request, that people should come forward. They should come forward and take seriously this movement. And we have got our places. In Bombay we have got big place. In Vṛndāvana we have got big place. In Nadia we have got big place. At least elderly gentlemen like you... Now you should retire from family life and leave in charge of the grown-up boys. You should take seriously for India's interest, for everyone's interest, but as we want... We should not keep people in darkness. That is very risky. Very risky. You may be very proud that "I am this, I am that, I have to...," but you are after all under the control of the laws of nature. That you cannot avoid. Falsely proud. But you have to abide by it. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is not so easy. Actually, nature's law, you can eat once attar. If you eat little more than that, then there is indigestion immediately. You have to go to the doctor. So what is your independence? You cannot violate a little portion of the laws of nature. So many. In every step.
Initiation Lectures
So Kṛṣṇa said that "You give up all your engagements." That did not mean that Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna gave up his engagement as a military man. To give up all other engagements means to give up the engagements of your sense gratification. Instead of... At the present moment, with all our activities we are trying to gratify our senses. That's all. And surrender to Kṛṣṇa means the beginning of satisfying the senses of Kṛṣṇa. That is called bhakti. This is the definition of bhakti. What is that bhakti? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to become free from all designations. So long we are in the material conditional life, we have got various designations—"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am this," "I am that," so many designations, "I am nationalist," "I am Communist," "I am socialist," so many designations. So sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), means you have to give up the designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Now I am thinking, "I am nationalist," "I am Communist," "I am American," "I am Indian." So I have to give up these designations. And what I have to think? There must be thinking. I am not stopping my thinking what I am. That is indicated in the Vedas. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That aham, my identity, is not lost, but at the present moment I am thinking that "I am this, I am that," but you have to think, you have to identify with Brahman, the Supreme Brahman. And when you identify with the Supreme Brahman, that is your liberated stage. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When you identify yourself with Brahman, then at once you become free from all these designative activities, prasannātmā: "Oh, I have no more any duty in this material world." In this way, when you make further progress,
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
So this age is like that. Not only in India, in other countries the difficulties are in a different way. The problems are different. But there are problems, either in India or in America or in China. Everywhere, they are trying to make so many schemes for world peace. In your country also, in America even, there is no safety of life for big men like Kennedys, you see. Anyone can be killed at any moment, and there is no action. So there is another problem. In Communist country they are, by force, they're ruling on the citizens. So many Russians, so many Chinese, they are going away out of their country. They do not like this Communist idea. So problems are there due to this age. Due to this age of Kali, the problems are there. And what are the problems? The problems are that in this age people are very short-lived, their duration of life. We do not know when we shall die. At any moment. It is said that during Lord Rāmacandra's rule, a brāhmaṇa... (aside:) It's not working? ...he came to the king, "My dear king, my son has died. So please explain why, in the presence of father, a son shall die." Just see how much the king was responsible. An old father came to complain to the king, "What is the reason that in the presence of the father, a son dies? Please explain." So just see how much responsible government was there. The government is responsible if the son dies before the father. Naturally, the father is older than the son, so he must die first. So such responsible government was there. Now in the civilized world anyone can be killed by anyone, but nobody cares for it.
Wedding Ceremonies
So in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we have got this program that if some boy or girl wants to get married, I help. So this marriage ceremony is today arranged on that principle. But the present bride and bridegroom must know it certainly that this marriage is not for sense gratification. This marriage is for purification of life. So there is no question of divorce. There is no question of separation. So don't get into married life if you have got such propensity. Our first principle is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and other things, secondary. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. If you can produce nice children, Kṛṣṇa conscious children, it will, you will do greatest service to the human society. Because the human society is producing children like cats and dogs, the whole human society is in trouble. How you can expect peace and prosperity in the society of cats and dogs? Therefore there is necessity. There is necessity to produce children of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to train them from the very beginning. You will be all glad to know that some of our students, very small boys in San Francisco, they are being trained, and they are making wonderful progress. So there is no fault of these hippie boys and girls. They have not been trained. Not only here, every part of the world, the educational system is not very satisfactory. From the very beginning of their life they are allowed to mix freely, and they are allowed to enjoy sex life unrestricted. This is neither good for their health nor for education. So therefore we are getting now the result of education: communists and hippies. So people, those who are guardians of the society, should take serious note of it and make life very regulated.
So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is all-round movement, all-round movement. Just like Kṛṣṇa, He took part in everything. Not that Kṛṣṇa simply was interested in Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Of course, everything is based on Vedic ritualistic ceremony. But Kṛṣṇa also took part in everything. He was a politician, He was a philosopher, He was a socialist, He was a communist—everything. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. So we recommend that in whatever position you feel comfortable, you can accept that, but, I mean to say, spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Parama ānanda-khanda. People will be happy. Our mission is to see sarve sukhino bhavantu: everyone become happy. We don't want to see that we exploit somebody else and I become happy. No. We want to see everyone happy. But they do not know how to become happy. Therefore we are trying to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement that everyone will be happy. Su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam (BG 9.2). In Bhagavad-gītā it is... Su-sukham; to execute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very easy. Kartum avyayam: and whatever you perform, it is permanent. Avyayam and su-sukham, very pleasing. There is nothing very painful in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Because Kṛṣṇa is ānanda, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), we are going under the protection of Kṛṣṇa, there must be always ānanda. But people do not know how to enjoy ānanda. They have been put into ignorance. The so-called leaders, so-called politicians, so-called philosophers, scientists, they are simply keeping the people in darkness. So we want to counteract this action of keeping people in darkness.
General Lectures
And this is very nicely explained in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, the same teaching is there, but... We have got two books already published, one, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is; another book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So Bhagavad-gītā teaches surrendering process. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "You surrender unto Me," the Lord says. And the Lord teachings, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is how to make surrender. Because we have been accustomed in our present conditional life to revolt against surrender. There are so many parties, so many "isms," and the main principle is that "Why shall I surrender?" That is the main disease. Whatever political party is there... Just like the Communist party. Their revolt is against the superior authority they call capitalists. "Why shall we..." Everywhere, the same thing is, "Why shall I surrender?" But we have to surrender. That is our constitutional position. If I don't surrender to some particular person or particular government or particular community or society or something, but ultimately I am surrendered. I am surrendered to the laws of nature. There is no independence. I have to surrender. When there is call of the cruel hands of death, immediately I have to surrender. So many things.
You have read in Kṛṣṇa book, sometimes when Kṛṣṇa does something wonderful, they take Him as a wonderful child, boy, that's all, or child. They do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. But they love Kṛṣṇa more than anything. They do not know except Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Not very much philosophy. Whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not, whether the symptoms of God are there or not, the Vṛndāvana-vāsī, inhabitants, they do not care for it. Kṛṣṇa may be God or a man, but they love Him. That's all. That is wanted. We have to increase our love for Kṛṣṇa; therefore this worship, temple worship. If you always be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, naturally you develop love for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Premā pumartho mahān. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that prema, love for Kṛṣṇa, love for God, that is the highest achievement in human life. Premā pumartho mahān. It is not religiosity. Religiosity is different thing. Everyone goes to church or temple with some material purpose generally, to get... Just like in church they go: "God, give us our daily bread." That is material purpose. Not only church, everywhere, that is the system. Ārto arthārthī. Of course, that is good. Four classes of men whose background is pious life, they go to God, church or temple, when they're distressed. Others, those whose background is not piety, simply mischief, they cannot go. Therefore even one goes to God for praying something material, they're better than those who do not go to God. Just like in Communist country, they do not believe in God: "Why we shall go to God? We shall create things. We shall create bread." In the Communist country the propaganda was that these Communists would go to villages, ask the villagers to come to church and pray to God, "Give us our daily bread," and they would ask, "Whether you have got bread?" Of course, in the church where is the bread? They will say, "No, we haven't got bread." "All right, you ask us." And they ask the Communist leader, "Give us our daily bread," and they give sumptuously. "Why should you go to church?" They preached godlessness in this way, that "You are not getting bread from the church. You are getting bread from us. Why not worship Lenin and his followers? He gave sufficient bread." In this way they tried to make people godless, that "Don't go to church." Still their propaganda.
He is claiming that "I am the father of all forms of life." Sarva-yoniṣu, "all species of life." "The material nature is the mother, and I am the seed-giving father." Just like without father and mother nobody can appear, similarly, in this material world, whoever has come, every one of us, beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, everyone, the mother is the material nature. The mother supplies this body. So our, this body is material; therefore it is the gift of the material mother, material nature. But I, the spirit soul, that I am part and parcel of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." So if you try to wide your feelings of internationality, please try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. You'll be getting enlightenment, you'll understand what is international feeling. Sarva-yoniṣu. Sarva-yoniṣu means then you will feel international even for the cats and dogs and animals and reptiles. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... These people are manufacturing communism, but in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, we'll find a statement given by Nārada Muni that if in your house there is a snake even, you should give him something to eat. Just see how the feeling. Even there is a snake, what to speak of other animals.
Anyone can go anywhere very swiftly. You can go to London from Bombay within nine hours. So the world is not bounded anymore by "geographical limits to the particular countries or communities. Human society is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state of human society." There is already the United Nations. In New York, they have constructed a big organization, establishment, United Nations. But actually, when we pass through that road—I think it is First Avenue—instead of being united, the flags of the nations are increasing. They are becoming disunited. Just like in India, our independence movement was started by Mahatma Gandhijī for uniting all the different section of the people, but actually, the result was that instead of being united, India was partitioned. And the partition has become so poisonous that formerly there was only sporadic Hindu-Muslim riots in some place; now there is organized fighting between Pakistan and Hindustan. So although the tendency is to unite, but in fact, it is not being united; they are becoming disunited more and more—not only the Hindus and Muslims. Now in India, there are many provincial questions. Just like in Andhra the fight is going on for separation. Punjab is already separated. So actually, we are not being united. We are being separated. So the ideals of human society "is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state or one human society. The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad-Bhāvagatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, on the entire energy of living beings."
So we shall gradually discuss all these points. The preliminary is that the present moment, although we are trying to be united—United Nations, united society, united religions, united... So many things, we are trying to be united-communism, united community—but this unity can be possible only when we are actually learned in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
- vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
One has to become learned. And the process of learning is not very difficult. It is very easy, especially for the men of this age—that is this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. If you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, is it very difficult for you? God has given you tongue. We are talking so many things, whole day and night. But if we utilize this tongue for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, what is the loss there? That is the injunction of the śāstras: Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached this cult.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading this cult of Kṛṣṇa understanding. And we have got very good scheme of communism. As I have stated here in this..., "The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, on the entire energy of the living beings." This is spiritual communism. The Communist cult is concentrating on the state. That is also limited. Not only on the state, there are so many limitations. Actual communism is this:
- vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
Paṇḍitāḥ sama... When we see equal not only the learned brāhmaṇa... The learned brāhmaṇa or the elephant or the cow or the dog or the caṇḍāla—no matter. Whatever the bodily condition is there, the spiritual condition is the same. Paṇḍitāḥ sama. This samatā, this communism, equality, is perfect. The modern theory of communism, that "I am good, my brother is good, and all bad," this is not communism. When we are..., we can see that "I am good, my brother good, the dog is good, the cat is good," or "the Englishman is good, the every living entity is good," that is perfect. That is perfect communism.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, or the Bhāgavata-dharma, there is ideal communism. You'll find in Śrīmad-Bhagavatam in the Seventh Canto, Nārada Muni is instructing to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira about this communism, that "A gṛhastha, before taking lunch, he must see that every insect, every lizard, every cat, every rat..." (break)...whether a snake in that house must have been fed, must have taken their food. This is so hospitable that the householder, the owner of the house, not only see that his wife, children, servants are well fed, but even the rats, cats, or the insect or the lizard or even the snake has got his food. That is the ideal communism. Because when you are paṇḍita, learned, you cannot distinguish that "This is animal and this is human being." You can treat them differently because their consciousness... But on the basic principle, the living entity, any living entity—it doesn't matter whether is animal or man—he's part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot kill one living entity for the satisfaction... (end)
Yamunā: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am trying to send this girl to Russia, Moscow, to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Yamunā: But I think it is very dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Not... I don't... We got a invitation from Czechoslovakia. That is also Communist country, but there the people invited us to open a center.
Yamunā: The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra was number one in Czechoslovakia. We have one record. I just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa over and over, the mahā-mantra, and in that country it was the most popular of all records.
Prabhupāda: In Germany also. We sold fifty thousand records in Germany. And there is another record, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. That is also selling very nicely. And recently another record you produced? What is that?
Yamunā: Yes, that will be a long-playing record, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's name is Bhaja Hūre Mana, Mana Hū Re.
Prabhupāda: Ah, bhaja hūre mana, śrī nanda-nandana, abhaya-caraṇāravinda re.
Yamunā: And saṁsāra prayers, vande 'ham prayers.
Prabhupāda: So that is not yet out?
Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). All these prakṛtis different wives of Kṛṣṇa or energies, they are struggling, unnecessarily they are struggling to become predominator. In this material world, everyone is trying to be predominator. One nation is trying to become predominator of other nations. One man is trying to be predominator of other men. One brother is trying to be predominator of other brothers. This is māyā. So everyone should give up the spirit of predominating. They should be willingly surrendered for becoming predominated by the Supreme Lord. Then you will be in peace (?). The whole world is suffering on this false predominating position. The human form different parties, this party and that party. But if you have got the same disease, same disease means spirit of predominating. At the present moment, it is going on. Take for example the Communist Party or Jana Sangha Party or this party or that party. They have formed different parties but the disease is there that "I shall predominate." So this party forming with the diseased condition that "I shall be enjoyer," there cannot be any peace. (break) Therefore, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said,
- na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
- durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
- andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas
- te 'pīṣa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
- (SB 7.5.31)
The different parties, different mentalities, they are trying to predominate over other. They are blind themselves. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas. One blind man is trying to lead other blind men. There cannot be any benefit. They should know the ultimate goal of life is Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and we shall all surrender unto Him. Then there can be peace and prosperity. Thank you very much.
Kṛṣṇa says Himself that "Out of many, many millions of people, one may be interested how to make life successful. One may know what is the aim of life." That is called siddhi. Yatatām... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. Everyone is interested how to earn money or how to gratify senses. That is the modern civilization. Here is a competition of sense gratification. I'm gratifying my senses in one way, and all others, they are trying to imitate me or compete with me though they hate me. This is going on. Everyone is trying to be the lord of all I survey. That is competition. Why I want to become the lord of all I survey? Because I want to gratify my senses to the greatest extent. This is going on. But actually our position is not to lord it over. Our position is to be lorded by the Lord. That is our position, actually. If you don't agree to be predominated by the Supreme Lord, then you shall be predominated by other agent, other energy, the material energy. I met one great professor in Moscow. The subject matter was freedom, Communism. So my last question was that "You people, Communists, you have surrendered to Lenin, and we have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Then where is the difference? You have selected a personality like Lenin or Stalin or Marx. We have selected a personality, Kṛṣṇa. Now, so far the principle of surrender is concerned, it is there in Communism and our Vaiṣṇavism. Now it has to be seen whether Kṛṣṇa is good or Lenin or good. That is a different question." So actually we are trying to be free, but we surrender to some rascal, that's all. Instead of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa we prefer to surrender to some rascal or fool. That is māyā. We have to surrender. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Our real identification is eternal servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is our real identification. But unfortunately, artificially we are trying to lord it over Kṛṣṇa or over the material nature. This is struggle. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This struggle you cannot overcome. Kṛṣṇa says duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the influence of material nature. Mama māyā duratyayā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "If anyone surrenders unto Me, then he can get rid of this influence of the material nature." This is the law. You cannot artificially change it. If you do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, if you do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, God, then the māyā, or the material energy, will always give you trouble.
Yes. Sometime 1948, '47. Hm? Or earlier. Anyway, it is more than twenty-five, twenty years. But what they have done? The people are still fighting. So here is the..., that we have to dovetail our service, we have to make Kṛṣṇa center. The Communists also, they tried to make by making the state as center. So that is also failure. Or the United Nations also. I do not know what is their center. Their center is politics, that's all.
So in this way there cannot be complete harmony. Complete harmony will be possible only when you bring in Kṛṣṇa. That will be explained in the next verse. Īśāvasyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Unless you bring Kṛṣṇa, or īśa... Īśa means the supreme controller. He is actually controlling. Īśa. Īśa means the controller. So there is a supreme controller. We see in the, in our experience, that some of the objectives are living and some of them are not living. Animate or inanimate—these two things we see in our experience. But above this animate and inanimate there is supreme animate. That supreme animate is called īśa. Īśa or īśvara means controller. So there are many īśvaras, or controllers, but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). There are many controllers. Some of you are also controller, in charge of some department. Similarly, controller over controller, controller over controller—there are many. And go up to Brahma. The first creature within this universe is supposed to be the controller of this universe. But above him, there is another controller. That is Kṛṣṇa. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. The material scientists, they are finding out the sun is the cause of all material manifestation. Actually, that's a fact.
So "The ideals of human society is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state or one human society. The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, of the entire energy of living beings." This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for not only uniting the human society but also all living entities. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ.
- vidyā-vinaya sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
When one is actually paṇḍita, learned, he becomes sama-darśī. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne: one learned brāhmaṇa, gentle brāhmaṇa. Vidyā dadāti namratā. Education means one becomes gentle, sober, cool-headed. Therefore it is said, vidya-vinaya-sampanne. When one is learned, advanced in education, he must be very gentle, not haughty. So vidyā-vinaya-sampanne gavi hastini. And one side, the brāhmaṇa with gentle behavior, learned scholarship, and the other side, an animal, say, a cow or a dog or an elephant, and another side the caṇḍāla, the lowest of the human society. According to Vedic civilization, the dog-eaters are called caṇḍāla. Just like in Hindu society, a person is not permitted to eat cow's flesh. Even in human society, although they are eating different types of flesh, one is considered abominable than the other. The cow-eaters are taken as abominable than the goat-eaters. And the dog-eaters are accepted as abominable than the goat-eaters. So although they are eating flesh, they have got some distinction. That is material.
So we shall gradually discuss all these points. The preliminary is that at the present moment, although we are trying to be united, United Nation, united society, united religion, united... So many things we are trying to be united—communism, united community... But this unity can be possible only when we are actually learned in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
- vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
One has to become learned. And the process of learning is not very difficult. It is very easy, especially for the men of this age. That is this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. If you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, is it very difficult for you? God has given you tongue. We are talking so many things, whole day and night. But if we utilize this tongue for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, what is the loss there? That is the injunction of the śāstras. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached this cult.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading this cult of Kṛṣṇa understanding... (break) ...and we have got very good scheme of communism as I have stated here in this... (reads) "The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, of the entire energy of the living beings." This is spiritual communism. The communist cult is concentrating on the state. That is also limited. Not only on the state, there are so many limitations. Actual communism is this:
- vidyā-vinaye-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
Paṇḍitāḥ sama, when we see equally, not only the learned brāhmaṇa... The learned brāhmaṇa or the elephant or the cow or the dog or the caṇḍāla. No matter. Whatever the bodily condition is there, the spiritual condition is the same. Paṇḍitāḥ sama... This samatā, this communism, equality, is perfect. Their modern theory of communism, that "I am good, my brother is good, and all bad," this is not communism. When we are, we can see that "I am good, my brother good, the dog is good, the cat is good, the Englishman is good, the every living entity is good," that is communism. That is perfect communism. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, or the Bhāgavata-dharma, there is ideal communism. You will find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the Seventh Canto, Nārada Muni is giving, instructing to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira about this communism that "A gṛhastha, before taking lunch, he must see that every insect, every lizard, every cat, every rat, even a snake in that house must have been fed, must have taken their food. This is so hospitable that the householder, the owner of the house, not only sees that his wife, children, servants are well-fed, but even the rats, cats or the insect or the lizard. Or even the snake has got his food. This is the ideal of communism. Because when you are paṇḍita, learned, you cannot distinguish that "This is animal and this is human being." You can treat them different because their consciousness is... But on the basic principle the living entity—any living entity—it doesn't matter whether it is animal or man—he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot kill one living entity for the satisfaction of the tongue of other... (end)
So I request all you ladies and gentlemen to take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sentimental movement. It is a very authorized, scientific movement. You are all educated, advanced ladies and gentlemen. I'll request you to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The American boys, it is already we are combining East and West socially, politically, religiously, philosophically, economically, everything. There is solution. But if you take it seriously. If you think this is a movement, sentimental move... It is not sentimental movement. It is a most scientific movement. Any scientist come to me. I can convince him that it is a scientific movement. I asked similarly to Professor Kotovsky in Moscow that "My dear Professor, what is the difference between your movement, communist movement, and my movement? You, you have selected Lenin as God. I have selected Kṛṣṇa as God. Where is the difference of principle? You cannot live without a leader or God. I cannot live without a leader or God. That's a fact. Then where is the difference? Now it is to be judged whether Lenin is good or Kṛṣṇa is good. That is another thing. But your position is that you have to accept one leader, either Lenin or Jawaharlal Nehru or Hitler or this or Lord (?) Churchill. You have to accept. You cannot work independently. Therefore you have got so many parties. So here is also one party, Kṛṣṇa party. So where is the difference in philosophy? There is no difference in philosophy. Now let us study whether Kṛṣṇa party is good or Lenin party is good. Then whole solution is there."
Thank you very much Hare Kṛṣṇa.
The Muhammadan magistrate called him, "Why you are chanting this Hindu Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?" Haridāsa Ṭhākura replied, "Sir, what is the wrong there? Just (indistinct) Hindus they have also become Muhammadans, so suppose I have become a Hindu. So what is the wrong there?" "Oh, you are talking before me? (indistinct) ...kill." He was ordered to be killed in twenty-two bazaars, because he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Similarly Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a devotee, and his father chastised him so many ways. So as soon as we become a sādhu, there is some danger to be captured by the asādhu. Just like in our, this movement, there are so many (indistinct). Somebody is preaching that this movement is the hippie movement. The hippie movement is discussed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. Just see the foolish propaganda. In India they manufactured a film, so much propaganda against this movement. We have to meet such enemies. What can be done? This is the nature of this world. As soon as you have become a sādhu, a devotee of the Lord, you create so many enemies—Communists, materialists—but we don't care. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja didn't care, even his father was so (indistinct). Haridāsa Ṭhākura did not care.
So therefore those who are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like all kinds of impediments. They are (indistinct) sādhus. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody is dearer than him who is preaching," because he has to face so many impediments, so many obstructions. And he has to face (indistinct). Therefore it is said, sādhu, munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'ham: (SB 1.2.5) "Oh, your question is very nice." Sādhu, munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam. "We have put this question, but it is loka-maṅgalam." When you discuss this question and answer, it becomes very much auspicious to the whole human society. Loka-maṅgalam. Bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam. Why loka-maṅgalam? Yat-kṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa-sampraśno, because it was questions about Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is loka-maṅgalam, auspicious. Anyone who is hear about Kṛṣṇa, how is that simply by hearing (break) ...hear. Hearing is also so auspicious. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). If you hear, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ... When Kṛṣṇa sees that you are hearing about Kṛṣṇa, immediately you become pious.
You can execute your so-called dharmas, but if it does not help you to understand what is God, then it is useless waste of time. It is useless waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. So actually, this Bhārata-varṣa is the land of dharma. Even some Communist Chinese gentleman, he has written a book... That is recommended in the New York University. He says that "If you want to know about dharma, you must go to India and learn there." We have got so facility. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,
- bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra
- janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
Anyone who has taken birth as a human being in the land of Bhārata-varṣa, first of all let him become perfect and distribute the knowledge all over the world. That is paropakāra.
So I shall request that there is great need of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world. It is only one man's attempt. If persons like Nandajī and others, living persons... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). Nandajī is one of the śreṣṭha-vekti of India. He was minister in the Central government. Now he is out of office. But the man is the same. I was very glad when I received the literature. I thought, "At least one man in India is thinking that India is so much downfallen." So I was very much encouraged. Otherwise I was very much discouraged that there is no human being in India, because they have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, forgotten God. Now I see there are still. So I shall request Nandajī that take the standard method as prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Then you will be successful. Not only Nandajī—anyone. The example is already there.
Now this United Nations, they're trying to be united, but actually, in the heart, they have got this, "This is my land," "This is my land." The American thinking, "This is my land." The German thinking, "Oh, it is my land." Indians thinking, "My land." Actually, there is no knowledge. Every land belongs to God. But they cannot come to this conclusion because they are godless, without any God consciousness. Actually, that's a fact. Just as the America, two hundred years ago, this land did not belong to the Americans. It was there already. So to whom it belonged? Similarly, everything... This is the statement of the Vedas: īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). If we accept this, if the United Nations makes this resolution, that "From this date, let us dissolve this so-called nationality, accept this whole planet belonging to us, all the human beings, all the animals, all the birds, beasts, trees, as they are on this planet," if we accept this philosophy, there is no question of chaotic condition of the society. Actually, that is the fact. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that whatever there is, property, on the land, on the sky, or on the water, anywhere, everything belongs to God. This is, some way or other, communistic idea, but it is spiritual communistic idea. The Communists, they are making their center as the state. The Bhāgavata makes the center as God. Everything belongs to God. The Communist says that everything belongs to the state, and the Bhāgavata says everything belongs to God. So from the idea, this is very nice idea. Now we are... Kṛṣṇa claims in the Bhagavad-gītā that "All the species of life, they are My sons. I am the seed-giving father." So the property is belonging to God, the supreme father, and we are the sons of God. Not only human being. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu: "All species of life." Therefore God has provided for everyone's sufficient necessities of life. For example, just like we are human beings, only 400,000's of species. But other species, they're eight million. Eighty hundred thousand species. In Africa, there are millions of elephants. They eat, at a time, fifty kilograms. Kg. What is that Kg?
Prabhupāda: Well, we get money. We sell these books also. If they require money, there is money also. But we live very simple life. Whatever little necessity of money is there, that we can gather by selling these books. Even in Indian parliament, the question was raised, "Wherefrom this ISKCON movement gets their money?" Some Communist member raised this question. And the home member replied, "They get money by selling literature." That's a fact.
Guest (6) (European man): I would like to ask also a question. In your rural communities... I call them rural because from what you said, the main purpose is to be self-supporting as regards food. In your rural communities, do you utilize the most modern techniques with fertilizers, with mechanical means for cultivating land? This is one question. The other is that obviously, from what you say, the necessary money for buying anything else, that is provided by the selling of your books. Of course, if you would imagine communities having not, as you have, something which (indistinct), and therefore books which can be sold, such communities would not be eased to be self-supporting in regards to everything. Food is also there. And if, by any chance, would your system...? Supposing we could transform all the members of the Swiss community into peasants, having their piece of land and living in rural communities, I suppose from what I know that many would starve and would have not sufficiently to eat because conditions here, conditions of climate, etc., are not of the same category of the ones which may exist in Asia or in other countries. The basic problem is that in former centuries most of the male population of that country which population was mainly composed of peasants had to expatriate and become soldiers abroad because there was not enough food. So what do you say about these things?
So these things have to be changed; then there will be God consciousness, and everything will be happy. To accept the real fact, so many big, big brains, politician, but they have no sense to understand that the whole earthly planet belongs to God. It is created by God. It is the property of God. Everything, what is there in this earthly planet, that belongs to God. We are sons of God. Let us enjoy God's property. The son has got right to use. But I should not encroach upon your property or my property, but everything belongs to... Just like in a family. Everything belongs to the father, and the children, whatever father gives, you eat and live peacefully. Similarly, there is immense prospect for produce food for the whole human race on this globe, earthly planet. But because somebody is encroaching God's property—"This is mine, sir. You cannot come here"—there is trouble. Otherwise... Just like your Australia. So much land, but you won't allow anybody to come. It is yours. Africa: so much land vacant. And "No, you cannot come. It is mine." And nobody is thinking that "It is God's and we are children of God. Let us produce." If we actually utilize the whole land of this earthly planet, we can produce ten times the necessity of the whole population. Where is the question of scarcity? But that understanding we haven't got. So unless you come to that, God consciousness, everything belongs to God... Just (like) the Communists, they are thinking that everything belongs to the state. But why don't you think everything belongs to God? Then the whole solution is there. But that they will not do. So therefore there is great necessity to propagate God consciousness to the people. It doesn't matter what religion is there. Religion is neither Christian religion... Religion is one. I have already explained. That is God consciousness, to abide by the orders of God. That is religion.
Spiritual consciousness is, it is stated in the Vedas, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." The food belongs to God, the mine belongs to God, the ocean belongs to God, the land belongs to God, the air belongs to God, and whatever we find here... This is a combination of these five elements: earth, air, water, fire. That's all. So everything belongs to God. We also belong to God. So we should feel obliged to God that He has given so much for our maintenance. (break) ...fruits, flowers, vegetables, land, ocean, mine, jewels. So we can use it as much as we require. We cannot collect it and keep it in stock for my future son, grandson, this son, that son. No. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is actually perfect communism. The Communists are thinking in terms of the human being, and that also within the state, but a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he is thinking in terms of all living beings. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, śuni caiva śva-pāke ca (BG 5.18). In the Bhāgavata it is stated that a householder, before taking his lunch, he should invite on the street, "Sir, if anyone is still hungry, please come at my place. There is still food. You can take it." And he should see that in the household even the lizard he is not hungry. Even there is a snake, he is not hungry. This is Vedic principle, God consciousness, that "Somehow or other, one animal has become lizard. Maybe he is hungry. So at my house he is. Why he should remain hungry? Give him some food." Nobody likes snake, but in the śāstra it is said, "Even there is a snake, you should see that he is not hungry, he is given some food." So of course, it is very high idea, but it is the complete ideal of so-called Communism, real. It is not that nation... American nation, they are concerned with the human being only. Or any nation. Not American, everywhere. And nation means... The definition of "native" means one who has taken birth in that land. That is called native. So the cow is also native. So why this law, that for the benefit of the human being, the cow should be slaughtered? And he is giving milk; he is working for you. What is this philosophy? In Christian religion it is clearly stated, "Thou shalt not kill." And most of the slaughterhouses are in the Christian countries. Why? This is all misunderstanding of spiritual life. Therefore... Just like the discussion went on with the Kazi and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There was no philosophy. He first asked him that "Cow is your mother. Bull is your father. Why you are killing father and mother? What is your religion? Is that very good philosophy, that you shall kill your father and mother and eat them?" This was the first question. According to Vedic civilization, cow is to be given all protection. The Hindus or followers of the Vedic religion, why they are interested to give protection to the cows, not to the..., not so much to the other animals? And Lord Christ is more liberal.
Philosophy Discussions
Hayagrīva: He says, "Belief in the supernatural, great as though the service is which it rendered in the early stages of human development, cannot be considered to be any longer required either for enabling us to know what is right and wrong in social morality, or for supplying us with motives to do right and abstain from wrong." That is God is not actually necessary for a sense of morality and in communist countries today we see that they instill a social morality in their citizens that is devoid of any conception of God.
Prabhupāda: Morality means to abide by the orders of God. That is real morality. Other things which we manufacture, that you will find different in different countries. But religion and morality both of them are the same principle because religion means to carry out the orders of God, and morality means only the, I mean the principle to fulfill the desires of God. Just like in the battle of Kurukṣetra, Arjuna was considering, "Killing is immorality." But when he understood by the instruction of Kṛṣṇa that this fight is necessary as it is designed by Kṛṣṇa, so this is morality. Ultimately, morality means to carry out the desire of Kṛṣṇa or God. He knows what is morality. This, another example can be given, that in the warfield the soldier is there and the commander is there. The commander is asking, kill the enemy, and if he considers that "Killing is bad, why shall I kill the enemy?" That is immorality. He should be immediately killed by martial law. He is disobeying the order of commander. So similarly, what you get, orders from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, if you carry it that is morality. Any other things manufactured by you, that (is) immorality.
Śyāmasundara: So it is a matter of degree which is more practical than something else. Sense gratification or communism or any other "ism," it's practiced (indistinct) effect, but that effect...
Prabhupāda: But if it has bad effect then what is the use of it? It must have good effect. Effect must be there, but if it is bad, that is not practical. The effect must be good and continuous.
Viśāla: But that good result is relative, depending upon who is deciding whether it is good. In other words, Lenin or Mao, they feel that the practical result of their philosophy is good.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but now Mao disagrees with the practical utility of Russian philosophy. So where is the stability? And similarly, the Russians don't agree with the Chinese, so what is practical for China is not practical for the Russians. So which one we shall take?
Viśāla: That which is practical for both.
Prabhupāda: That means both of them are not practical. It will be proved in due course of time.
Prabhupāda: But he says there is no being; it is an ideal.
Śyāmasundara: It's an idea.
Prabhupāda: So people may not like that ideas; therefore the communists are there. Others may not like this idea.
Guest: He says God summons. He says God summons us. But I cannot see how a nonbeing can summon.
Prabhupāda: Summons. That is contradiction.
Śyāmasundara: He says it is the idea which...
Prabhupāda: How the idea summons? He says the idea summons us.
Śyāmasundara: Ah, yes. Well, and he says that it is the value to which one is supremely devoted, that this is God.
Prabhupāda: How can devotion be possible without a being? Just like devotion means between the devotee and the person who is offered that devotional service.
Śyāmasundara: Just like the Communists would say that "God is the state, and all my supreme devotion is for the state, to serve the state."
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but your state, Communist Russian state, is not overgrowing others. So that cannot be God. God is obeyed by everyone. Your state may not be obeyed by other states. God means the supreme controller. You are not the supreme controller. Then how can you make the state as God, your state?
Śyāmasundara: So actually his idea of God would change. For the Communists God means the state; for the primitive savage God means the...
Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi made Cāṇakya his god.
Śyāmasundara: He says..., he mentions a third type of salvation, called religious salvation. He says that this is the highest. But his idea of religious salvation is ascetism. That by denying the will then we can quiet the will.
Prabhupāda: Yes that is in one sense, that you don't will anything which is not favorable to Kṛṣṇa's service. That is our prescription. Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ prātikūlyaṁ vivarjanam. This is, out of the six items of surrender, these are the two items, that you should give up things which are not favorable in execution of devotional service. You should give up. That sort of willing, you should give up. And you should accept everything which is favorable for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So willing cannot be... Our process is to purify willing. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). So, just like you are working or others are working, somebody is working, "I am American, I must do this as American." And others say, "I am communist, I must do this." This is superfluous. According to designation, they are willing. And when you come to this willing: simply to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is designation-less. That sort of willing we should practice. Not willing with designation. He is thinking of willing of designation.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is real life. Śaraṇāgati, to surrender to God, to accept things which is favorable to God, to reject things which are unfavorable to God, always maintaining conviction that "God will give me all protection," and remain humble and meek, and think oneself as one of the members of God's family—that is spiritual communism. As the Communist they think a member of a certain community, similarly a man's duty is to think always as member of God's family. The same idea I was speaking, that God is the supreme father, material nature is the mother, and anything, any living entity coming out of material nature, they are all sons of God. So practically we see that all living entities coming out, either from land or from water or from the air—everywhere there is living entity—so the material nature is the mother. There is no doubt about it. And we have got experience that mother cannot produce child without connection with the father. So this is absurd to think that without father a child can be born. That is foolishness. Father must be there, and that supreme father is God. This conception of a spiritual family is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness.
Hayagrīva: Concerning God's personality, he writes, "According to the Bible, God has a personality and is the ego of the universe, just as I myself am the ego of my psyche and physical being." But here...
Prabhupāda: That persona—for as I take it from this statement—that persona, when when comes to the understanding that I am eternal servant of God, that persona is salvation, perfection. Persona must be there, but so long one is in the material world, his persona, or identification with some interest, varieties. Sometimes his persona is with the family, his persona is with the community or with the nation or with some idealism, Communism, this "ism," that "ism," this is going on. But when that persona comes to the understanding of Kṛṣṇa, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is perfection. Persona must continue.
Hayagrīva: So this persona he's speaking of is like the false ego.
Prabhupāda: The false ego, so long he is in the material world. Otherwise "I am." "I am American," this is false ego, and "I am servant of God, Kṛṣṇa," that is reality, that is real ego. We say, therefore, false ego. Ego must be there. That purified ego is, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise "I am this," "I am that," "I am this," "I am that."
Hayagrīva: He envisions the self as a personality...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So to become completely pure, then he is the necessity of morality and ethics. Just like we prescribe, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling." These are the four pillars of sinful life. If we avoid these thing, then we can stay on the platform of purity. And God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is based on this morality. One who cannot follow the principles, he falls down from the spiritual platform, and he cannot make any progress. So purity is the basic principle of God consciousness.
Hayagrīva: Jung sees atheistic Communism as the greatest threat in the world today. He writes that "The Communist revolution has debased man, because it robs him of his freedom, not only in the social but in the moral and spiritual sense. The state has taken the place of God. That is why, seen from this angle, the socialist dictatorships are religions, and state slavery is a form of worship."
Prabhupāda: Yes, I agree with him. That is the degradation of human civilization. But the philosophy of the Communist, that everyone has equal right or everyone must take share of the state equally, that is little, basic principle of real communism. According to our understanding, God is the father, material nature is the mother, and we, all living entities, are sons of the father and mother. So as sons everyone has right to live at the cost of father's property. The whole universe is the property of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all living entities, they are being supported by the father. But one should be satisfied with the supplies allotted to him. That is, Īśopaniṣad says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). There is no need of encroaching on others' property. We should not become envious of the capitalist or rich man, because everyone is given his allotment by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I should be satisfied with my allotment. I should not encroach upon others' allotment. But the exploitation idea is not there. The same thing, that nobody should exploit. If one has become rich man, that's all right. That, that is natural.
Hayagrīva: In the atheistic Communism he says, "The goals of religion, deliverance from evil, reconciliation with God, rewards in the hereafter, and so on, turns into worldly promises about freedom from care for one's daily bread, the just distribution of material goods, universal prosperity in the future, and shorter working hours." In other words, material, worldly promises are given.
Prabhupāda: In the Communism?
Hayagrīva: In, in atheistic Com..., in Communism.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they have no idea of spiritual life, neither they can understand that there is spirit with the soul, within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). That they cannot understand.
Hayagrīva: But he feels that socialism or Marxism, Communism, cannot possibly replace religion in the proper traditional sense.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not religion. It is simply mental speculation—how to adjust material things. It will never be able to adjust it. That is their simply imagination. It will all fail at the ultimate end.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that these people, they do not understand what is religion. Religion you cannot avoid. That is characteristic. Just like we gave several times this example, that everything has got a particular characteristic. Just like salt, salt is never sweet, and sweet is never salt. It has got a characteristic. A chile is pungent. Similarly, living entity, we are..., what is our characteristic? Our characteristic is to render service. Either you take Communism or this "ism" or that "ism," your real characteristic to render service, that will not change. The, in the capitalist country they are asking people that "You work in the factory and work for me, and whatever I say, you do," and the same thing is being dictated by the Communist leaders. Where is the difference? There is no difference, but it is only difference of nonsensical idea. Therefore a mass of people, they have to render service, either to Mr. Lenin or Mr. Roosevelt, it doesn't matter. He has to render service. But both the services are not being profitable to the mass of people. Therefore we suggest following the footprints of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that you serve Kṛṣṇa. Service is your essential duty, but because your service is wrongly being executed, you are not happy. But if you render your service to Kṛṣṇa, that is natural and you will be happy. So our Kṛṣṇa conscious men, they are happy when rendering service to Kṛṣṇa, or God. So individually or collectively, if every state, every individual person renders service to Kṛṣṇa, then that is perfect stage of life. He has to render service to somebody, but because it is misplaced, he is never happy, but when the service is rendered to Kṛṣṇa, then he will be happy. Service you have to render, without any failure, but he does not know where to render service. That is the difficulty. Communist dictating, "You, sir, render service to me," and the capitalist dictating, "Give me service, sir." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No. No service to this, no service..." Sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You simply give your service to Me, then ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo, you will become free from all sinful reaction of life." That is our position.
Hayagrīva: He feels that a materialistic Western capitalism cannot possibly defeat a pseudoreligion like Marxism. He says that the only way to combat atheistic Communism is for the individual to adopt, to adopt a nonmaterialistic religion.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It has nothing to do with materialistic "isms." It is directly connect, connected with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. God demands that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66). So we are teaching that "You, you are servant, but your service is wrongly placed; therefore you are not happy. You place or render the service to Kṛṣṇa, you will be happy." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are neither for capitalism nor for so-called Communism, or not for so-called religion also. We are only for Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Hayagrīva: Jung laments the fact that such a nonmaterialistic faith does not presently exist in the West. He writes, "Not only does the West lack a uniform faith that could block the progress of a fanatical ideology"—that is Marxism—"but as the father of Marxist philosophy," because Marx was a Westerner, "it makes use of exactly the same spiritual," so-called spiritual, "assumptions, the same arguments and aims." So he feels that man is desperately in need of a religion that has immediate meaning, and he feels that Christianity is no longer effective in combating this.
Prabhupāda: He has predicted very nice. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, which is above everything, either Christianism or Marxism or capitalism or anything. It is based on Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So actually it is a fact. Kṛṣṇa says that if you adopt this principle of life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will remain above all sinful reaction of life and make progress spiritually, gradually.
Prabhupāda: Something to do. I have to do something. He is cutting a book into pieces.
Śyāmasundara: Jean-Paul Genet was one of his heroes—a sadist, a homosexual, a criminal. He thought very highly of him, because he said at least he has chosen something he is doing very courageously. So he got him released from jail. Now he has chosen to become a Communist, Sartre. So... (break) He is very much trouble with the government. They want to arrest him, but he is too famous. His life is (indistinct).
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the actual cause of shame?
Prabhupāda: Higher consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: If I am ashamed to take my clothes off in public, why is that?
Prabhupāda: Higher consciousness. The dog has no such thing; therefore this consciousness is not developed.
Devotee: He says something about..., "You have it resolved in your mind and you don't carry it through."
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda gave an example: if I decide to rob a bank and I don't rob the bank and I... (break)
Prabhupāda: What is next?
Prabhupāda: Yes. How the people will live peacefully in the society? I will give my own idea, you will give your own idea, he will give his own idea, then where there is collaboration? No, there is no possibility. Then it is chaotic condition. Then why do you want government? You live without government. You don't require government.
Hayagrīva: Lately he's turned into a Marxist.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, there is government. In the Marxist, Communist country, there is government, so how you can avoid the government and leadership? That is not possible. Then the society is in chaotic condition.
Hayagrīva: He believes that each man is responsible for other men, but that he believes..., he also believes that each man has the freedom to work out his own destiny, so to speak.
Prabhupāda: Say, suppose if I want to do with you some, something good, and you are free. So if you don't accept me, then I don't accept that, that is, means chaotic. How you are responsible for me? If I don't obey, so how you can become responsible for me? So he says that a man should be responsible for other men. But if he does not obey you, where is the responsibility? So crazy fellow that.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. They get credit. I recall one book, in Mathura one Mr. (indistinct), he was begging his brother, he became a very businessman, so he wrote his history, that I was begging now I am sitting (break) like that. That's all. So, the theory(?) that my propensity is there, that as soon as I get the opportunity I suck the blood of others and become fat. So unless he changes mentality, there is no question of changing capitalist or communist or this or that. It is all useless.
Śyāmasundara: So shall we stop for today or...?
Devotee: Yes, continue tomorrow.
Śyāmasundara: We still have a few more of Marx.
Devotee: We can do it tomorrow. Then we'll do Lenin tomorrow. (break) So, today we will continue with Marx.
Prabhupāda: Marx? Not yet finished?
Śyāmasundara: No.
Prabhupāda: Go on.
Śyāmasundara: The communists have played upon this tendency and so the worker who produces more, he gets glorified by the state. He produces more units at his factory than the others, then he gets a small bonus.
Prabhupāda: Why he should get bonus?
Śyāmasundara: In order to, incentive, incentive bonus.
Prabhupāda: That means that his tendency is to lord it over, and that he is being bribed. He wants some profit, "All right, I give you some bonus. This Russian communist idea is very good provided the citizens do not want any profit but that is not possible. Everyone wants profit. So how by law, by force, you can take it? It is not possible. The same proposition: that in the winter season the bugs cannot get blood, cannot come out due to the serious cold so they become dried up. Their skin practically dries, dries completely. There is no blood. That is (indistinct). But as soon as the bug gets opportunity, in the summer season, he can come out, immediately he bites somebody and sucks all the blood.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but as soon as there is opportunity, they will take it. Because that is the (indistinct). As soon as he got some (indistinct), because it is mine, and he sold it and he utilized it for the purpose. So this is the psychological fact that everyone is trying to get some profit. By force you can make him not to take profit, but that is not possible. As soon as there is profit (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: So Karl Marx made a manifesto called the Communist Manifesto which lists ten points for social reform. Should we read them, (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: The first one is the abolition of property and land and application of all rent from land to public purposes. In other words abolition of private property, all property becomes public. The second point is a heavy income tax, no, progressive income tax, so if you make more, you have to pay more. The abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Prabhupāda: The, this thing is not only in Russia, this is going on in other countries. So, people have been taught not to keep accounts. All these big, big business men they don't keep accounts, so there is no question of income tax. Suppose if I want to purchase from you something. No cash memo, no account. I give you money, cash, I take goods, I sell it, no account, then I cash from my (indistinct). That's all. But provided I have my right books, then these things will be applicable-income tax. Just like in our Indian system, there small broker, he has no book; nothing of the sort. He is purchasing one bag or two bags of rice, he is selling, that's all. He does not keep accounts. So as soon as... The whole tendency is, that I want profit. If the government (indistinct), somehow or other, (indistinct), I will get my profit but I will not show government how much profit I am making. He may propose all these nice things according to his philosophy but he cannot change the mind of the people. Therefore all these proposal will be futile. Simply waste of time, that's all.
Śyāmasundara: The Communists, and even to a certain extent the capitalists, believe that service for the production of goods is the only real service. So they condemn us because we are not adding anything to production. We are not working, we are not building factories. So they condemn us.
Prabhupāda: How they can condemn? We are giving service to the humanity for better knowledge. Then high-court judge, he is not producing any grain in the field, so he is not giving any service? He is sitting on the chair and getting(?) five thousand, ten thousand (indistinct). You can say, "Oh, he is not giving any service, he is simply sitting in the chair."
Śyāmasundara: In one way he is, because he is enforcing the law that helps the...
Prabhupāda: What it may be, personally, if you simply think that this man comes in the office and sits down in the chair for three hours and he draws salary of six thousand.
Prabhupāda: There were so many revolutions. It is not that they have made revolution. There were other revolutions, especially in Europe, the French Revolution. There were so many revolutions.
Śyāmasundara: He studied the revolutions, and he said that history moves in leaps and progresses toward the Communist leap. So he wants to make a leap into the dictatorship of the proletariat, and this he calls the final stage of development of history.
Prabhupāda: No. We can say, and they may note it also, that after this, the Bolshevik Revolution, there will be many other revolutions, many other revolutions, because so long people will live on the mental plane there will be only revolution. That's all. Our proposition is, "Give up this mental concoction. Come to the right point. And that is spiritual platform." If one comes to that spiritual platform, that is... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "No more revolution. I am completely satisfied because I have now seen You." So unless one comes to God, the revolution will go on. Rather, this is final revolution. We don't say final revolution, but... We don't expect that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be taken by everyone, but within this material world the revolution will repeat unless one comes to God consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: He says that this is purely the nature of matter, that there are always two conflicting properties, and that this inner impulse, this inner pulsation of opposite forces, will cause history to take leaps like you just said, from one revolution to another. But the Communist revolution he calls the final revolution because it is the perfect answer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I can take it in this sense. If the Communist idea is spiritualized. So long the Communist idea will remain materialized, it is not final. We have got Communistic idea. Just like we believe... They believe that the state is the owner; we believe God is the owner. So this state is a small state, Russian state. They can be satisfied, but because it is wrong application... State is not the owner. Real owner is God. So from state, when they come to the conclusion, "Not the state but God is owner," then their Communistic idea will be fulfilled. And as they say that everything must be done for the state, we are actually teaching perfect Communism. We are teaching that Kṛṣṇa is the owner. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the supreme enjoyer. Everything is..." Just like in our society we are doing everything for Kṛṣṇa because we know Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. Sarva-loka-maheś... He is the proprietor. So this Communistic idea is vague, but it can be perfected when they come to the conclusion, according to the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme proprietor; He is the supreme enjoyer; He is the supreme friend of everyone. Then the people will be happy: "Oh, we have got a friend like Kṛṣṇa." Just like Arjuna was certain that "Kṛṣṇa is my charioteer. Oh, I am victorious." And it is confirmed, yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ: (BG 18.78) "Where Yogeśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is there," yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ, tatra śrīr vijayo, "there victory and everything is there." So this is an idea. This idea can be welcomed provided they are prepared to replace the so-called state by God. Then it is...
Śyāmasundara: So these men, both of them, they have a great faith that philosophy can change the world.
Prabhupāda: And this is the real philosophy. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is real... What is the original source? This is real philosophy. What is that Absolute Truth? Everything is relative truth. What is the Absolute Truth? That is philosophy, Vedānta philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: That has social effects that could change the world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This, our whole Indian, Vedic civilization, is standing on Vedānta philosophy. And Bhāgavata is explanation of Vedānta philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: So the source of everything is...
Prabhupāda: Everything is there, ideal.
Śyāmasundara: So that's all today. Tomorrow we will discuss Mao Tse Tung, the Chinese Communist.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Mao.
Śyāmasundara: Mao. (end)
Hayagrīva: Marx felt that religion is a symptom of a degraded man. He wrote, "Religion is the sigh of a distressed creature, the soul of a heartless world, as it is also the spirit of a spiritless condition. It is the opium of the people. The more a man puts into God, the less he retains in himself."
Prabhupāda: But practically we see that the Communist are also equally failure, even without God. Now these Chinese and Russians, they are not in agreement. So same thing—that those who believed in God and those who did not believe in God the difference existed. And now amongst the Communist there are coming out so many section. So the difference of opinion is still there even denying God, without God. So that is not improvement. The real purpose is to understand what is really God is. That is required both by the Communist or the capitalist. Denying God and acting independently, that has not brought any peaceful condition of the human society.
Hayagrīva: He felt, like Comte, that the proletariat, the worker, would eventually eliminate religion, and he wrote, "The political emancipation of the Jew, the Christian, the religious man in general is the emancipation of the state from Judaism, from Christianity, and from religion generally." So that the worker would become the savior of mankind in emancipating or freeing man from a religion that worshiped a supernatural being.
Prabhupāda: So that has not actually happened. Marx is dead and gone. The Communist theory is already there, but they are not in agreement. The Russians are not in agreement with the Chinese men. Why it has happened? The God is not there; the working class is there. Then why there is dissension and disagreement?
Hayagrīva: He felt... Marx writes, "The alien being to whom labor and the produce of labor belong, and whose service labor is done, and for whose benefit the produce of labor is provided can only be man himself." And he felt that throughout history that the working man has labored so hard for the construction of temples to God, and this should be changed, that man should work not to build temples to God but for the benefit of man.
Prabhupāda: So unless one understands that abide by the orders of God is the benefit of man... If there is any, any organization... Even in communistic country there are many men working, but there is one director. In the state also there is one dictator, either Stalin or Lenin. A leader is wanted. So the supreme leader is called God. So the Communist cannot do without leader. Even Karl Marx, he is giving leadership. So, so leadership is wanted. There you cannot change. A person, a society is working under the leadership of God or Kṛṣṇa, and a society is working under the leadership of Marx... What is this? Marx?
Hayagrīva: Marx and Engels and Lenin, they were...
Prabhupāda: And Lenin. So that leadership wanted. Now the question is who will be the leader—Kṛṣṇa or Lenin? That is to be understood. Without leader, either the Communist or the theist cannot work. So, so far accepting leadership, the philosophy is one. Now the question will remain, "Whose leadership is perfect?" That is to be decided. But the Communist cannot avoid leadership.
Hayagrīva: Like Comte, Marx believed that atheism was unnecessary because it was negative denial. He felt that socialism is positive assertion. He says, "Atheism no longer has any meaning, for atheism is a negation of God and postulates the existence of man through this negation. But socialism as socialism no longer stands in any need of such a mediation. It proceeds from the practically and theoretically sensuous consciousness of man and of nature the essence. Socialism is man's positive self-consciousness no longer mediated throught the annulment of religion, just as real life is man's positive reality through Communism." So that Communism really has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
Prabhupāda: No. Our point is that religion is not sentiment. Leadership has to be accepted, either by the Communist or the theist or atheist. There is leadership. So when the leadership is selected and the direction given by the leader, you can take it as some "ism." So religion is the same thing. When we accept the leadership of God and His direction, that is religion. I don't think on principle the Communist can change this idea. The same leader is Lenin or Stalin, and he is giving his direction, and people must follow it. So where is the difference of philosophy? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there, His instruction is there, and we are following. So where is the difference in fact?
Hayagrīva: He felt that industry or science could make man happier by emancipating man from...
Prabhupāda: We don't think so because in the industry the worker are not satisfied. They are, they are observing strike. Why? If there is happiness, why there is strike?
Hayagrīva: He felt... Well this... Of course Marx wrote before Communism came into actual existence as a, as a political institution, so he's simply theorizing.
Prabhupāda: Still, his theory, he...
Hayagrīva: He's never, he's never, he never saw Communist Russia for instance, or any Communist state. He, he felt that religion has..., was the cause of antagonism between men. He says, "The most persistent form of antagonism between the Jew and the Christian is religious antagonism." How has one solved an antagonism by...
Prabhupāda: No.
Hayagrīva: ...by making it impossible?
Prabhupāda: There is not the question of antagonism. If we actually know who is God and what He desires... I give always this example: if we know the government and the government laws, then there is no antagonism. The government says that "Keep to the right," so there is no question of antagonism; anyone must keep to the right. So there is no question of antagonism. But the antagonism is there when the so-called religious system does not know what is God and what is actually the desire of God. Then there cannot be any antagonism. That perfectness of understanding God and God's regulation or order is clearly described in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are therefore advocating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Here is God and here is God's instructions." So if we deliver it, and the proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā, they are all practical. Just like God says that you divide the society in four division—not only worker, but also the good brain, good administrator, and good producer of food. That is the actually the divisions of the society.
Prabhupāda: So Christ gives the knowledge how one can be relieved of the material burden. That is the business of all religious preacher. The religious preacher should give information to the people in general the exact position of God or idea of God, and when people will learn scientifically about God's existence and his relationship with God, then everything will be adjusted. That is wanted. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give people exact idea of God, exact definition of God, and exact instruction of God. If we take that, take to that, then our religious life will be perfect.
Hayagrīva: The last point is... And this is a point that most Marxists tend to ignore because Communism, when Communism comes to power, they, oh, like in Tibet, I believe when the Communists came in they abolished...
Prabhupāda: All religious system.
Hayagrīva: The Dalai Lama had to flee to India, I believe, and the Tibetan Buddhists had to...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: They had a temple in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So dissolution of religion means animalism. That has happened actually, because one does not know what is God, soon there is misunderstanding of religion. Therefore if he, actually anyone is serious about religion, then they should sit down together, that "We call God as supreme father, then why should we fight ourselves? Let us obey the order of the supreme father." Then there is no dissension. But they do not do that, neither they know who is the supreme father. That is the defect.
Hayagrīva: You have been to Communist Russia, and was there any church worship? The Eastern Orthodox church used to be the standard Russian religion. Is there any church worship in Russia today?
Prabhupāda: I, I, I did not see, but I saw some mosquelike building in the, what is called, Red Square. I saw that building, but that is vacant. They are worshiping Stalin, no, Lenin. Yes. They are worshiping Lenin's tomb. That I have seen in the Red Square. And there was a church or mosque, I do not know. The building is, can be called a church or mosque...
Hayagrīva: Church.
Prabhupāda: That was vacant.
Hayagrīva: It's more like a museum.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It may be because it is Indian culture, and we have quoted from Vedic literature, the original Sanskrit. So they are little after the Indian culture, so when they find that here is the original version in original letters, they may be interested in that.
Hari-śauri: But actually it's a fect that in Russia there aren't many people who still believe in God.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Believe in God, why? Eighty percent, ninety percent, they believe in God. That cannot be avoided.
Hayagrīva: But don't the... The young people are Communists, are very enthusiastic about Communism, but as a person grows older and sees death as inevitable, don't the, don't the older people worship...?
Prabhupāda: No, even the young men, in Russia I have seen, they are after also God. They are unhappy because they are not allowed to go out of Russia. They want to see the world, but they are not allowed. Their independence is suppressed. So they are not happy.
Hayagrīva: That's the end of...
Prabhupāda: Hm. (end)
Śyāmasundara: He stresses two aspects (in the) theory of dialectical materialism. The one on which he placed the most emphasis is the aspect of the pragmatic element of philosophy, that philosophy must have practical effect. And the other aspect is the contradiction between capitalism and communism, and this contradiction involves conflicts and eventual revolution. He agrees with Hegel that without conflict, there can be no progress. Do we accept this? Without conflict, there is no progress?
Prabhupāda: Our Kurukṣetra battle is a conflict between Kurus and Pāṇḍavas. So after the conflict, the Pāṇḍavas became the kings. So that is admitted; without conflict, you cannot make progress.
Śyāmasundara: Is that true on every level of...?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: ...chemical law? (?)
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Mind is saṅkalpa and vikalpa. Mind's business is to accept something and reject something. So in this way, accepting and rejecting, if the mind is sound, then we come to some conclusion by intelligence. Accepting and rejecting, this is conflict. Then by intelligence we take something out of this conflict.
Prabhupāda: Well, that conflict is no use. Social... So far the modern society is concerned, it is based on mental speculation. There is no standard. Some society has a different standard, another society has a different standard. But none of them are based on some authority. Therefore such conflict cannot bring you into some right conflict if both of them are wrong. The so-called capitalist and so-called communist, they are all on the wrong basis. So by such conflict you cannot come to a recognized standard.
Śyāmasundara: So by "conflict" you mean the mind's engagement with...
Prabhupāda: No. I mean to say that... Just like two parties fighting on some point. They come to the court and the judgement is given by the judge. So the decision is made on the judgement. Not by simply conflict. If two parties are fighting for life together, they cannot come to the conclusion because they are fighting on the wrong basis.
Śyāmasundara: So this theory of Mao Tse Tung actually rises out of Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Darwin's theory we have already discussed, and that is nonsense.
Śyāmasundara: Well, still, his basic idea is that all theories, all natural laws are proven in practice, social practice, that... For instance, Marx's idea that capital is not necessary for production, that profit is not necessary for production. It's proven by the communist state where there is no profit-taking, there is no capital making, and still the wheels(?) of production go on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that sense is by nature's law. But artificially we have adopted so many things. That means, nature's law means God's law. So God's law is that you have got land. You till and you get production. But if you cannot till personally, then you have to employ somebody else. So you have to pay him. Therefore you must require profit.
Śyāmasundara: But excess profit, excess profit is taken by the owner...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, I have hired one man to work for me. I have to pay him and therefore I require profit.
Śyāmasundara: But isn't the tendency there to exploit the man and take more profit?
Prabhupāda: That must be. Not only the capitalists exploit, the laborers also exploit.
Śyāmasundara: No. I would admit that I am controlled. Everyone in my Communist state is controlled because we work under the...
Prabhupāda: Apart from Communist state, by nature's law... You have spoken about nature's law. So we are controlled by the nature's law. Who can deny it? When there is severe cold, I am controlled. When there is severe heat, I am controlled. When there is epidemic, I am controlled. When there is famine, I am controlled. When there is flood, I am controlled. So how you can say that you are not controlled? You are not independent. The basic principle is that you are not independent.
Śyāmasundara: Mao Tse Tung uses this as the basis of his...
Prabhupāda: Basis is that you are controlled. That is mistake.
Śyāmasundara: His methodology is to present slogans to the people...
Prabhupāda: But you may manufacture slogans. First of all, let us talk on the principles. Everyone is controlled. How Mao can deny it?
Prabhupāda: He is convinced, but where is the proof that his leadership should be accepted?
Śyāmasundara: That it works socially. That people are becoming happy under this philosophy.
Prabhupāda: But shall not be happy. If I am given under the control of Communist government, I shall not be happy. We were there for a week in Moscow. We were not at all happy. That boy who came to us, he is not happy. So where is your perfection? You make everyone happy; then it is all right. If you think that "I am happy, my brother is happy. That's all right. Let others go to hell," that is another thing.
Revatīnandana: But Mao will say that the Russian Communism is religionism, that it is not real Communism. Therefore they are unhappy.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The Russian Communism is failing; similarly, some days after, his communism also will fail. Because they are all imperfect. To criticize another man does not mean you are perfect. That is a different thing. You have to prove that you are perfect. "Judge not others lest you may be judged."
Devotee: "Lest ye be judged and found wanting."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. That is not Mao is a very perfect man, his theory is perfect, he is better than... It is simply mental speculation.
Prabhupāda: That we have already talked; there is conflict. Conflict is going on.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that there are two types of conflict in social structure. One is between communists and their enemies, such as the U.S. imperialists; and those within the Communist party itself.
Prabhupāda: So... There... In communism... That means there are enemies. However perfect you may be, you have got enemies. Outside, inside both. Then what is your perfection?
Śyāmasundara: Well, he says that through the Communist system we can...
Prabhupāda: That enemy, everyone is... That you are enemy of the capitalists. Similarly, your enemy is capitalist.
Śyāmasundara: So the whole idea is to make the whole world Communist and there won't be any more enemies.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why the world... First of all, why the whole world will accept this Communism unless it is perfect? If it is imperfect, how do you expect that the whole world will accept it?
Śyāmasundara: He says that it is perfect, but there may be some conflict within the party because someone has not understood the philosophy perfectly.
Revatīnandana: He says there will be struggle against the opposing side. It will overpower the opposing side, make everything communist, and then by interaction of...
Prabhupāda: That is in every sphere. Why communist?
Śyāmasundara: He has another slogan to resolve conflicts within the party of "Unity, criticism, unity." A dialectic. "Unity, criticism... The thesis is unity, the antithesis is criticism..."
Prabhupāda: Then what is his reply to this dialectic proposition, that I say that "You, Mr. Mao, you are not independent. You are controlled."
Śyāmasundara: He'll say, "Yes, I am controlled by the higher truth of the socialist law, communistic law."
Prabhupāda: No, even there is no communistic law, still you are controlled, apart from the communistic law. You are controlled by the nature's law. How you can avoid it?
Śyāmasundara: Well, being only a combination of matter, I must be born and I must die, everyone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you want to be independent. You want to be uncontrolled. That is not possible. Why it is not possible? And if you are controlled, who is controlling you? What is the background of that control? So these answers they cannot give. They avoid.
Prabhupāda: That is theory, but it will never be successful. Why in Russia there is manager's pay and the worker's pay? Why not equal pay?
Revatīnandana: He says, "Abolish that." Mao says, "Abolish that system."
Devotee: No, Russia is not a Communist state.
Revatīnandana: The Chinese scoff at the Russians, that they are not Communist. They say we will not abide by this different manager... Only one pay scale for everybody.
Prabhupāda: First of all, this Communistic idea came from Russia and China imitated.
Devotee: Well, it came out of the proponent philosophers.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, the Russia is supposed to be leader of the Communistic idea.
Revatīnandana: They don't accept anymore. There is Mao...
Prabhupāda: Similarly, sometimes after, he will not be accepted. That is my proposition. As Russia is not accepted now, some days after, he will not be accepted. Similarly, your also theory will fail. That is my proposition. Because I challenge that your theory is not perfect. Because Russia's theory was not perfect, it has failed. Similarly, I say your theory is also imperfect, therefore it will fail. Anything imperfect will fail. That is my proposition.
Prabhupāda: That is right.
Revatīnandana: So his philosophy is very conditional.
Devotee: The antithesis is there in his teaching. He defeated his own instruction in his preface. That's what I was trying to... One thing about Mao's Communism in Russia in its relation to the Soviet Communism is that Soviet Russians are finding that the (indistinct) in a commune is going down because the family life is broken up. The children are taken away from the parents. The parents live separately and see one another occasionally. Similarly, it's dropping still more sharply in Red China, Mao's state. So Mao, in an effort to curb back and to reduce things to their natural order, wants to still further dissolve the struc...
Prabhupāda: But we don't accept either Mao or Marx. We don't accept anyone.
Devotee: Why are you discussing them?
Prabhupāda: Discussing to defeat their philosophy. Because their philosophy is accepted in the world, so we are giving the weak points of that philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Then all will die. Those who will follow, he will also die, they will also die. So first of all, stop yourself from death.
Revatīnandana: They will say "That cannot be done."
Prabhupāda: Why it cannot be done? Search out the cause. You don't want to die, but you are being forced to die. First of all, answer this problem. Otherwise, "Devils cite scripture." You first of all become perfect. Why you remain a devil? How you can cite scripture?
Pañcadraviḍa: Also his (indistinct) that "If we are imperfect, how can we govern?" Their whole slogan, Communist slogan is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." How can you get from a person according to his ability and how can you give according to his needs? If all the time there are the four errors of cheating propensity and so many other factors of imperfection are there, how can you possibly take a person and treat him as an individual and expect to have any kind of a reasonable conception of what he is capable of doing? (end)
Hayagrīva: Well he, following Kant, he emphasized inner reality...
Prabhupāda: He may, he may follow Kant and I may follow Kṛṣṇa, but if there is contradiction, then which one is morality? How it will be decided, and who will decide? He may follow somebody. That this question I asked Professor Kotovsky in Moscow, that "You are following Communism, and we are following, say, Kṛṣṇa-ism, but your leader is Lenin and our leader is Kṛṣṇa, that so far the philosophy is concerned we have to accept a leader." So there is no difference in the basic principle of philosophy that we must have a leader. Now who shall be the leader and who will decide it? Regards to both of us, we have got a leader. Now which leader is perfect? If both of them are perfect, then why there is difference of opinion—one leader does not agree with the other leader? So who will answer this question that who is the best leader? Leader you have to follow. That you cannot avoid. Either you follow Kant or you follow Kṛṣṇa. Either you follow Lenin or you follow Kṛṣṇa. What is the answer? Who is the perfect leader? You cannot avoid leader, either you say according to Kant, I say according to Kṛṣṇa.
Hayagrīva: Well they both emphasize intuition or conscience. The interior...
Prabhupāda: To disobey the order of Kṛṣṇa, or not to serve Kṛṣṇa. Just like some servant, he tries that "Why I am serving this master? Why not become a master." The, sometimes psychologically it comes. A man is working in the office, he is seeing the managing director is sitting and is taking all the money, and sometimes the worker... Just like a capitalist and the worker. Why it is Communist movement? That they are thinking that "We are working, and the capitalist is taking the money." So they revolt, they make strike, and they form a society that "We have the..., we must have this money." That is communism. So similarly, when the living entity—he is eternally part and parcel of God; to serve God, that is his real position—but when he thinks that "Why I shall serve God? I shall enjoy myself," that is the beginning of falldown. So what is your question? When the... This was your question, that "When the sinful life begins?"
Hayagrīva: Oh, what was, what was this original sin?
Prabhupāda: This is the original sin. When he thought of not to serve God but to become God, that is the original. Just like the Māyāvādīs, they have knowledge, they have philosophy, everything, but still trying to become God, which is impossible. Then there is no meaning of God. If simply by meditation and by some material efforts one can become God, then where is the use of God? You cannot become God. But artificially you can try to become God, and that artificial way of becoming God is the beginning of sinful life.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hayagrīva: He says..., he's speaking of the working man.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Hayagrīva: In this he is a..., he influenced Marx considerably in his belief in the worth of the working man.
Prabhupāda: But so far we have seen that even the working man requires a director. In the present Communist society there is working man and the manager class. So as soon as you have to accept a manager, then simply working man will not help us. There must be a managerial person. Otherwise, how the working man can be, I mean to say, systematically engaged in working?
Hayagrīva: He believed in forming working men's clubs that would be dedicated to the philosophy of positivism. He wrote, "The real intention of the club is to form a provisional substitute for the church of old times." He's referring specifically to the Catholic Church; he's a Frenchman. "Or rather, the working man is to prepare the way for the religious building of the new form of worship, the worship of humanity."
Prabhupāda: What is that humanity? The working man does not know...
Hayagrīva: Humanity is all mankind.
Prabhupāda: All mankind to do what?
Hayagrīva: All human beings together.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So all human beings together, but each and every human being he has got some individuality. So even if you take all humanity, how the individuality will be the same? That is not possible.
Hayagrīva: Well this is the, also the contention of Communism...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: ...that all men are basically the same in relation to the state.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are under the law of state, but his thinking, feeling, willing are not under the state. One man may be thinking just in his own way, another man is thinking in his own way. How this thinking, feeling, willing, psychologically how they can be one? As human being, his quota, he has two hands and two legs and one head. That's all right. But the working of the brain, the thinking, feeling of the mind, they are, they are different. Their every activities... I want to eat something; you want to eat something. Āpan ruci khāo, everyone wants to eat according to his taste. How these things can be adjusted, taking the whole human race together? That is not possible. Everyone has got his individual taste. How you can synchronize them? What is called, synchronize?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: He felt... When Comte wrote, Communism was in its incipient state, it was just beginning to form under a philosopher called Feuerbach(?), and he felt that Communism and positivism could work hand in hand. He said, "Positivism has nothing to fear from Communism. On the contrary, it will probably be accepted by most Communists among the working classes."
Prabhupāda: Working classes? Only working classes? So why there is managerial class? If they want classless, only working class, then why they require direction and dictatorship? Why these things are required?
Hayagrīva: The dictatorship of the proletariat. This is the new idea.
Prabhupāda: Then anywhere, anywhere, somebody is working and somebody is... Just like in our body even, the hand is working, the leg is working, but the brain is giving direction. That is natural. How the working class will work without the direction of someone, experienced person?
Hayagrīva: Well he doesn't believe in any leaders.
Prabhupāda: Then who will control? Society controlled without any controller? What is the meaning?
Rāmeśvara: It's a type of communism, where the people work together in a communal way.
Prabhupāda: How they will work together? They require Lenin, Stalin, or something like that, to force them to work. Still, in Communist country there are manager class. Not only worker class, the manager class. So this is all utopian theory. It has no practical value.
Hayagrīva: In the United States all of the successful utopian communities have had a strong religious leader.
Prabhupāda: Leader must be there, religious or not religious. Everyone has leader. The Communist has got leader, and the spiritualists, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have also leader. So without leader nothing can be done. They may defy leadership, they may defy authority, but one who defies authority, he wants to become authority. So this is natural. Without leader nothing can be done.
Hayagrīva: That's the end of B. F. Skinner. (end)
| Page Title: | Communism (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 26 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=190, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 190 |