Benefit (Conv. 1968 - 1974)

Prabhupāda: When one is perfectly Kṛṣṇa's devotee, he may not come, but if there is little deficiency, then there is possibility of coming back. But even though there is deficiency, he comes back to nice family, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo sañjāyate (BG 6.41). (aside:) What is this? Human intelligence can decide for future. That is human intelligence. The animal cannot decide. We have got that discriminating power developed, "I shall do this, I will be benefited. If I do this, I shall not be benefited." This is there in human life. So we have to use it properly. We should know what is our goal of life and decide in that way. That is human intelligence. What is that?

Bali-mardana: This is a photograph we've received of your Guru Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bali-mardana: Yadubara, I think he has sent many from the family collection of Lalitā Prasāda. The painters...

Prabhupāda: So keep it and frame it, and keep it in my room.

Bali-mardana: Should the painters, should they paint such uh, this type of pictures?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not.

Prabhupāda: Just like you control your beloved. Just like you have got a beloved child. So you control him, for his benefit. If he's going to touch fire, you immediately say to him, "No, no, my dear child, don't touch it." So a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, devotee, he is never misled, because Kṛṣṇa is always guiding him, whereas those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they're in charge of māyā, and māyā will do the needful, as you have seen(?).

Bob Cohen: Is is preset when we're born, the time that we'll die?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bob Cohen: Is the time that I'm going to die, and everybody going to die, is this preset before they're born? Do I have, when I'm born, do I have a certain given lifespan?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore one who is intelligent, he puts himself under the control of God directly. That is intelligence. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many births of struggling, or speculation, one surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarva..., "Kṛṣṇa, You are everything. So I am.... Accept me. I am now fully surrendered unto You, and You control me." Because I am controlled. So, so long I am being controlled by these rascals, so there is no benefit. I'm controlled. I have been controlled by my senses. So under the control of the senses, I have served family, so-called family, society, country, nation, up to serving the dog, but nothing has given me the satisfaction. Therefore now I have got sense, good sense. I put myself under Your power. Instead of being controlled by dog, let me be controlled by God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have not seen, man, how he is controlled by a dog, in the street? The dog stops, passes stool. "Yes, I stand." Is it not? He's passing stool, his urine, and the master is thinking, "I am master," but he's being controlled. That is māyā. He has become servant of dog, but he is thinking that "I am master of dog." This is māyā. This is māyā.

Prabhupāda: Because I may require in the.... So, we don't want to enter into arguments, but we must know, but if somebody comes to argument, we have to say. What can be done? We say that "You follow Christianity in perfect order, you'll be benefited." That we say. Our test is whether you're advancing in God consciousness. That is our test. You follow Christianity or Muhammadanism, anything you follow, we don't mind. Whether you are developing your God consciousness, love for God, that is our test. But if your process has failed, then you can try this. And you'll see, in our process within so short time, how they are becoming God conscious. You have to admit. And they admit also.

Prabhupāda: That you can ask. These are simply ordinary question anyone can answer. If there is serious question, that understanding, then he may come.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. They would like to let us..., we could ask you questions, serious questions, for the benefit of the audience.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They would like to film the, the...

Prabhupāda: I can ask?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: ...the devotees asking you questions for the audience.

Prabhupāda: They make radio, television, they ask the same question. They do not know what question they can ask. The real..., it is meant for the philosophy of life, but they, they do not know.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So why this ordinary question to be repeatedly made and I answer? A waste of time. This is a serious movement. One should be responsible men, leaders of the society. If you want to take some benefit out of this movement, they should question.

Prabhupāda: And they should..., if it is nice, they should take it. Then it will be benefit.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If they go on questioning, they'll never do it, never accept it.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That will not be effective. Simply a waste of time.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Here is the formula, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They actually see how we are changing the character.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, the leaders of the society, if it is serious, will adopt this, in the educational system, in their private life. In that way they shall ask some question, then it will benefit. Otherwise it will be simply a show.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: This, this kind of question and interview is very interesting.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Good.

Prabhupāda: So ordinary men, why these people are..., why you are making this statement when you came, what is the benefit of such a thing?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Prabhupāda, jaya!

Prabhupāda: They do not know...

Devotee: So...

Prabhupāda: Now, the Russian scholar, he will, theologian, he can describe about God, what is the nature of God.

Prabhupāda: That, not only in India. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not meant for India or America. Of course, I am deputed by my Guru Mahārāja to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the Western world. That is his grace. He wanted that Western people, who are intelligent, they should learn what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So my mission is for the Western country, but it is not meant for any particular country, nation. It is meant for every living entity. Now, there are many unfortunate living entities and there are many fortunate living entities. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in America or Western country, only the fortunate persons they are coming. But if few of them come and understand, then by their example and behavior, the whole population will be benefited. It is not expected that cent percent population will be able to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but by the examples of the few, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). Just like you'll find in our temple it is always crowded to the fullest extent. We require a more spacious home. But not all of them our initiated students. Out of them say ten percent may be our initiated students. But still people are coming to see. They are following.

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Prabhupāda: For the last five years.

Frenchman: Can you please describe the dress in which you are clothed.

Prabhupāda: You can ask about some philosophy. Dress, (how) people will benefit knowing about my dress. Instead of wasting time in that way, I can ask you why you are in dress... That's not very important thing.

Devotee (2): Anyone can answer those questions.

Frenchman: What do you think of the future?

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Devotee: Of the future.

Prabhupāda: Future you can guess... (indistinct) ...taking and it is spread all over the world.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Suppose you are getting some money. We have no money. If you try to serve, that will... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). This line is service. The more you render service, the more you become enlightened. If you simply philosophize, theorize, you'll get no benefit. You must render service.

Ian Polsen: May I join the kīrtana in the streets over the weekend?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, whenever you get opportunity, kīrtana. Yes. Very nice.

Ian Polsen: Dressed as I am?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Ian Polsen: Dressed as I am?

Prabhupāda: Why not? Dress is not very essential.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): That's a very nice record. Everyone is appreciating.

Prabhupāda: But I heard that rascal always played my record and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (1): At least he's benefiting somehow. I saw him in Bombay also one day in the market of Madhubal, Madhubhag(?) temple? He was buying beads for his store in New York.

Prabhupāda: He's selling beads, records, on our account. (laughter)

Devotee (1): He was being cheated himself, in Bombay. He was being cheated like anything. He was paying one rupee for one strand of beads, those poor quality beads. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Now you can arrange for the car?

Devotee: Yes. Ātreya Ṛṣi is going to be working on it, too, to raise funds.

Prabhupāda: So, at least two first-class car must go to India.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm. But they have lost for the better.

Revatīnandana: Yes, but they don't understand that. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Lost not in vain. They will be benefited. They will be benefited. You are giving the best service to the family. What about your mother, Himavatī?

Himavatī: I never hear from her anymore.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Himavatī: I never hear from her anymore.

Prabhupāda: She's also not very happy?

Himavatī: No. I don't think she's very happy with me.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Anyway, you serve Kṛṣṇa and then your mother will be best served. Kṛṣṇa will favor all the family members of a devotee. You have seen from Prahlāda Maharaja's statement. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that anyone coming to become His devotee, He takes care of the family of the devotee-spiritually, for their emancipation. That is natural. Just like government. If somebody dies on the warfield, the government takes care of the whole family. Similarly, if the government has so much sense, do you mean to say Kṛṣṇa is nonsense? He also takes care of the family of the devotee. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22).

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: That I have explained. Just like Arjuna, who was a fighter, warrior, means he fought for Kṛṣṇa. For himself, he was hesitating. He put all these questions that "If I kill my brothers, then their wives will be widow, and they will be prostitutes and there will be varṇa-saṅkara, and then there will be no piṇḍa-dāna and then the whole nation will go to hell," in this way, as he could think. But he was not thinking in terms of Kṛṣṇa. He was thinking in terms of his own benefit, "whether I shall go to hell or heaven." That was his contemplation. Therefore he was taught Bhagavad-gītā. And after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he agreed to Kṛṣṇa's proposal. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā: (BG 18.73) "Now my illusion is gone. I have got my real consciousness, so I shall fight." So the fighting was Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when he was trying to become nonviolent, very benevolent to the family, he was chastised by Kṛṣṇa. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādām: (BG 2.11) "You are talking like a very learned man but you are fool." So this is our position. We may talk very learned, scholarly, but if we have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we are subjected to the chastisement. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). So this is the position. So nothing is bad if it is engaged for the service of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, however good it may be in the estimation of material conception, it is the cause of bondage, good or bad. It doesn't matter. So you have to learn the art, how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That art you have to learn. Then your life is perfect.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But where you are getting the bodily comforts? Supposing you are (indistinct). The (indistinct) searches after bodily comfort, but still they are not getting bodily comfort. Where is the bodily comfort? There is disease, there is old age. Where is bodily comfort? You cannot stop it. It is very good that you are searching after bodily comfort, but there are so many discomforts of the body and the mind. You cannot stop it, then where is your actually benefit of searching out bodily comfort? You could not do it. Where is bodily comfort?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For example, they will say that in early history people used to live in the caves and they used to wear skins.

Prabhupāda: That is your rascal's conception. They used to live in palaces. You are rascal; you do not know the history.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Mrs. Keating: ...and you share.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By serving I share. Just like this milk. The hand helps me, brings it here. I drink, and as soon I drank, the benefit is shared by all the parts of body. Is it not?

Ambassador: That's true.

Prabhupāda: You do not require to pass the milk through the finger, then with the toes. No. Simply put the tea, tea or milk, within, and every part of the body is satisfied. Just like you pour water in the root of the tree. The energy immediately, I mean to say, distributed to the leaves, to the tree, to the flowers, to the fruits, everything, immediately. Similarly, there must be something which is the root of everything. That is God. The Vedānta philosophy says God means the origin, the source of everything. That is God. Now you can imagine how that source should be. That is also explained. But God, or the Absolute Truth, is that, is the original source of everything.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Just like Bhagavad-gītā: dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Now Kurukṣetra is still there, in..., about 90 miles away from Delhi. Perhaps you have been there. The station is there, Kurukṣetra. Now how one can interpret that kurukṣetra means this body? This is going on. In spite of clear understanding, they interpret in their own way so that they have got their own philosophy, they want to support. This is going on. So if you kindly avoid this misleading interpretation, and if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you get the science of God, science of religion, which is applicable either to Indonesian or Indian or African or American, everyone. The science is appreciated everywhere. Two plus two equal to four, this mathematical science is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter whether one is a Christian or Hindu or Muslim. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā is the science of religion, science of God. So if you take this book seriously, and try to spread this knowledge among your countrymen, I think you'll be very much benefited. And it can be... We are preaching that. We are the, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for one God, one scripture, one mantra, like that, for all people of the world. And we are happy that people are accepting it in that way, very nicely. And it is very easy. It is very easy. So Mr. Director he has read Bhagavad-gītā?

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Please translate.

Guest (2): He said, as a matter of fact, this Hindu religion in Indonesia, actually, most of them practicing Bhagavad-gītā. So Bhagavad-gītā has been a part of their life, but as a matter of fact, because in practicing this Bhagavad-gītā, not all (indistinct) has been practiced but only part by part which is very necessary for the adjustment with the condition in Indonesia. Some of them, of course, they can memorizing the verses for their benefit in their practices. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So we are always prepared to help you, anytime you require our help. (indistinct) ...try, we shall very much try to explain Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Guest (2): Thank you. (end)

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: And it will remain for another 427,000's of years. The whole duration is 432,000's of years, out of which we have passed only 5,000 years. That means the balance is 427,000 years. So at the end, people will forget everything about God. There are descriptions of the Kali-yuga. So if we again come back to Kali-yuga, it is not very good for us. The symptoms have already begun. So actually, we must do something by which people may derive some benefit. Simply for formalities there is no value. And that, things are already mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. You have to simply follow the program, then life will be perfect. (Hindi) Fruit. Give them this prasādam, this fruit.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But in the same living body, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are innumerable small living entities. Like the cells themselves. They are living also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In my body, there are millions of living entities. In my intestines, there are so many worms. If they, if they become stronger, then whatever you eat, they eat it. You don't take any benefit out of it. Therefore those who are full with these hookworms, they eat very much, but they do not grow. They become lean and thin. But they are very much hungry because these living entities are eating, and he's feeling hungry. And he's eating, but he cannot take any benefit out of it. He's lean and thin. So already there are thousands and millions of living entities in my body. But they are individual, I am individual. I may be proprietor of this garden, but there are many millions of living entities living in this garden. Similarly I may be proprietor of this body, but many millions of living entities are living in my body. I know that. Otherwise, how hookworms coming out of my intestines? So you cannot say that the chemical is lacking. Chemical is not lacking.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So whichever spoke you may be, come to the center. That is your perfection. The spokes may be of different direction. Like that. But center is Kṛṣṇa. The energy, central energy is Kṛṣṇa. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). And these, these living entities, they're flying. They have got intelligence. "The men are coming. We shall be smashed." They're flying, taking shelter. Defence. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-mai... Defence, defence measures. They know how to defend themselves in their own way. Similarly they know how to eat and similarly they know how to sleep. But what is the difference between this insect and me? I can talk of God, I can understand God. It cannot. That is the difference. I can study Vedic literature, so many facilities for me. But all these facilities, all this intelligence, I am utilizing for the same purpose, eating, sleeping, sex and defence. Therefore it is useless waste of time, waste of life, valuable life. What is their benefit? Suppose you are studying that this law is working like that, this law is working like that, but you cannot help. You cannot change the law. You are under the laws. So what is the benefit simply by studying?

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That, that is sense gratification. That is sense gratification. Teṣāṁ kleśo vaśiṣyate. For that sense gratification, he's working so hard, spending so much money, but the result is that, taking labor is their business. That's all. No benefit, no other benefit. Teṣāṁ kleśa eva vaśiṣyate. Nānyat, yathā sthūla tuṣa-khaṇḍana.(?) Just like you have taken the rice from the paddy. So now it is only skin. And if you try to employ that machine, Deki(?), what is called?

Devotee: Thresher.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what we find in science.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is, it is a scientific or clever method of drawing money from others. That's all. In other words, simple words, cheating. That's all. They do not know anything, and they're teaching, scientific method. Now suppose here is big, big waves. You scientists, you say some jugglery of words, proton, atoms, this, that, and hydrogen, phoxygen, oxygen. But what benefit people will get? Simply they'll hear this jugglery of words. That's all. What else you can say? Now suppose it is hydrogen, oxygen, protons, neutrons, all these things. So your position, my position, where is the change? Still we do not get any profit by this jugglery of words.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Suppose he knows the cause of cancer. What is the benefit? Neither he can stop cancer, neither a man suffering from cancer, if it is cured, he will live forever. That is not possible. Cancer or no cancer, a man has to die. He cannot check death. The death may be caused, if not cancer, simply by accident you can die. The real scientific research should be how to stop death. That is real scientific. That we are giving. To find out some medicine for some disease, that is not triumph. Real triumph is how to stop disease. That they cannot. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā puts before you the real trouble is this birth, death, old age and disease. That process we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, no more acceptance of material body. This is real science.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: All sorts of deception. Even Vaikuṇṭha. Paravyome (Bengali) And the calculation, even they, the self is, a sort of calculation comes between the, the servitor and the object of service, then also it throws us down. In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that sort of calculation is also absurd. Where there is love, there cannot be any calculation. It is autonomous. Autonomous anurāga. Cultivate, do. No sort of calculation of any benefit. The calculation disturbs autonomy.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī-maheśa-hari-dhāma... (Bs. 5.43). (Bengali) About our temple contemplation, it will be almost a skyscraper building.

Bhavānanda: Will be.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Eh?

Prabhupāda: Skyscraper building in temple shape, with four divisions. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī-maheśa... (Bs. 5.43). So Maheśa-dhāma, how it will be depicted? Pārvatī-wise. (?)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It has been already described by Sanātana Gosvāmī in Bṛhad-Bhāgavatāmṛtam. After crossing Brahmaloka,

Prabhupāda: There is Maheśa-dhāma, in between.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Oh, separate. Yes, bael nut is separate. That police officer, Ashe(?), district magistrate...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Was re-elected. (Bengali) ...on the real basis of this downpour of the civilized people here. (Bengali conversation for some time)

Prabhupāda: If you manufacture one palanquin... Palanquin. You know palanquin? Then sometimes you can carry Śrīdhara Mahārāja there. Yes. It will be great service and benefit for you. Because he's, he's very now...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Feeble.

Prabhupāda: Feeble now. So palanquin is all right. He can be carried in palanquin.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Now, this is the palanquin.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He's not in want. He's complete in Himself. But when a devotee gives Him love and faith, He accepts: "All right. Thank you." That is another thing. Otherwise, He doesn't require anything from him. What beautiful thing you can give to Kṛṣṇa? He can create thousand times beautiful thing than you... What power you have got? Why should you desire like that? But if you are devotee, either it is beautiful or ugly, it doesn't matter. If you give to Kṛṣṇa in good faith, He'll accept it. It doesn't matter. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He doesn't require anything. But bhaktyā, in devotion and love, if anyone offers even a little leaf, a little flower, tad aham aśnāmi, "I accept." He says. A little flower and little leaf, what benefit you'll do to Kṛṣṇa, unlimited? But He says, "Still, I accept because it is offered in faith and devotion." So that is a different thing.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is described in the Vedic literature: andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "A blind man is trying to lead other blind men."

Mr. Wadell: I suspect that that is as probably very near to the truth of human situation...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. What is the benefit? If I am blind and if there are hundreds of blind men, "All right, come on, I shall..."

Mr. Wadell: I think we are all partially blind.

Prabhupāda: No, then there is no question of knowledge. Somebody must be with eyes. He can give knowledge. That is our proposition. As soon as you say blind, there must be somebody with eyes. It is a relative term. It is a relative term. You cannot say, "all are blind." Then there is no question of blind and with men eyes. As soon as you accept blind man, you must accept the other side, man with eyes.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That "how to," that we shall teach, as we are teaching others. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated,

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthito na duḥkhena

guruṇāpi vicālyate

(Bg. 6.20-23)

Yaṁ labdhvā. You get something, which getting, you will be satisfied: "I don't want anything more." That is highest gain. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Cāparam. Another kind of benefit is not required. So yasmin sthitaḥ. If we remain in that position, then even there is hardest difficulty of life, he'll not be disturbed. (pause) Where is Paṇḍitjī?

Devotee: I'll get him.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are giving the right information, how human being can be really happy. This is end. It is not a religious sentiment. Religion means kind of faith. Today I am Hindu; tomorrow I am Christian; next day I am Mohammedan. What benefit I may get by changing so-called faith? Unless I understand what is my constitutional position, why I am suffering, how to get out of it? That is real life. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. It is not a sentimental religious faith. It is not like that. It is absolutely necessary for the human being. We are talking of human being because without being a human being, nobody will be able... The cats and dogs, they will not be able to understand the problem. In the human form of life, you can make solution of all the problems of life. It is a science, how to make that solution. That we are teaching. We are not talking of religion. Religion... Somebody will say, "I believe," "We believe..." Another will, "We believe..." You believe, if it is not a fact, what is the use of such believing? We are dealing with facts, not the question of believing and not believing. Facts are facts. If you don't take facts, then you are missing the opportunity. (pause) You have got some visitors' book? To...?

Haṁsadūta: Visitors' book, to sign?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...and the right answer may come from Kṛṣṇa. It is for our benefit. He's not misguided.

David Lawrence: No.

Prabhupāda: But he played the part of misguided.

David Lawrence: Yes. What we would say and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a person is playing in the stage as a fool, but he may be very educated man. So... But for the dramatic expression of talks, he might play as a fool. Similarly Arjuna's position is... How...? He cannot be misguided; he's personal friend of Kṛṣṇa.

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He cannot be misguided.

David Lawrence: But it was for our benefit.

Prabhupāda: But... And nobody can talk with Kṛṣṇa also. Nobody is so qualified. So somebody who would talk with Kṛṣṇa who must be very qualified, but he's playing the part of a befooled man. Otherwise, he's not misguided. He knows everything.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: ..., you know, very adequately represent the movement. I'm going to give it to...

Prabhupāda: Your, these students, they'll be benefited if you...

David Lawrence: I think so.

Prabhupāda: They will benefit. Yes, actually.

David Lawrence: I hope so.

Prabhupāda: And it is the duty of the guardians to see that the children are actually spiritually benefited. There is a verse... Pitā na sa syāt gurur na sa syāt. You have got Bhāgavata?

Pradyumna: It's upstairs.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata? Find out that. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. How it is instructed. If you introduce these literatures in the schools for study—because you are religious teacher-oḥ, it will play...

David Lawrence: I think so. And, you know, we hope to...

Prabhupāda: ...revolution in the spiritual ideas.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Pradyumna: Oh, na patiś ca sa syān.

Prabhupāda: Ah, na patiḥ. And one should not become husband also. Because husband is supposed to be instructor to the wife. Husband is the guardian of the wife. So he's responsible for her spiritual advancement. As much as the father is responsible for the spiritual advancement of his child, the spiritual master is responsible... Anyone who is claiming to be superior, he should be responsible for the inferior's spiritual advancement of life. So the conclusion is that they should not claim to become such and such unless they are able to save the subordinate from the imminent danger of death. Because death is there so long one is not spiritually advanced. As soon as one is spiritually advanced, he goes to the spiritual world, transferred. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). Spiritually advancement means to be transferred to the spiritual world. So this is the main business of the father, of the husband, of the spiritual master, of the king, of the guardian, of kinsmen. Everyone should be alert: "Whether I am helping my subordinate in the spiritual advancement of life." Because that will save him from the repetition of birth and death. And otherwise, what benefit you can do? If he's under the laws of karma, if he's going to become a cat or dog in next life, what help you have given to him? If he's under the laws of karma, then your help is no use. Your help is no use.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Simply by devotion. Anyone who is always engaged in devotional service, he's not in this material platform. He's in the spiritual platform. This is the technique. You remain always Kṛṣṇa conscious; you are no longer living in the material world. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

So study this Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly and be benefited and do good to others. This should be the mission.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Even there is no ecstasy, dance, it will bring ecstasy. Dancing is so nice. Chanting, dancing and take prasādam. Take rest. That's all. Not that you shall take rest like Kumbhakarṇa. (Prabhupāda laughs) Just to, I mean to say, answer the call of this deficient body, we have to take little rest. But as far as possible this should be conquered. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over eating, sleeping... Stress on saṅkīrtana, and let them chant and dance as long as possible. If they can chant and dance twenty-four hours, that is very good. That should be stressed. Just see, this boy yesterday, he came, he said, "Oh, I like this saṅkīrtana very much." Immediately. He was talking of so much, yoga and this and that, so many nonsense, but he came this morning. He said, "Oh, I will come again. It is very nice." Saṅkīrtana has got so power. Stress on saṅkīrtana, chant yourself, induce others, dance. Whole thing will be a successful. And especially outside India, these rituals and ceremonials, that will be simply artificial. They cannot take it seriously. But saṅkīrtana they can take seriously. This is practical. And if you recite all the Vedic hymns throughout the whole day they will join, but they will not benefit out of it. So why should we waste. Is that all right?

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

If we simply engage them in the activities of animal life—how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend, no more—then it is simply advancement of animal civilization. But those who are thinking good for all humanity, they should note this defect, that simply giving him nice food, nice shelter, nice sex facilities and nice defense, his problem of life is not solved. He should be given enlightenment about God consciousness. And if he is educated in that way, if he, by next life, he can go back to home, back to Godhead. This education is lacking. So we are trying in our small endeavor. But if leading personalities like you of the society, they try to understand this philosophy scientifically, critically, and take it seriously, they can, there will be great benefit for the human society. The program we have got, but we are not leading personalities. You are all leading personalities. At least in England. Lord... This group, House of Lords is there. It was always there. In previous days also. They were called amātyas. All leading men of the society, they used to give advice to the king. And brāhmaṇas also. I think the knighthood means that. What is the meaning of this knighthood? Eh? Personal advisors to the king?

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Even the śūdras can...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lower than śūdra. Why śūdra? Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They become purified if they accept the real representative of Kṛṣṇa. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ. Everything is there in the śāstras. If you take advantage of the benefit of the śāstras, everything can be remodeled, everything can be good. There is no cause for disappointment. But unfortunately they'll not agree. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya. Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti. One who is acting whimsically, without any reference of the authoritative śāstra, he'll never get success, na siddhim avāpnoti. Na sukham: neither happiness. And what to speak of going to the spiritual world? It is impossible. So we have to take the advantage of the instruction in the śāstra. Now Kṛṣṇa is accepted the supreme authority by all the ācāryas. The molder of destiny of India's culture, all the ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, Lord Caitanya...

Reporter: Śaṅkarācārya.

Room Conversation -- London, August 24, 1973 :

Prabhupāda: ...there are so many paths, that Kṛṣṇa says that "Real religion is to surrender unto Me. Therefore you give up all this pseudo-religion," sarva dharman parityajya, give it up, mam ekam saranam, "just surrender unto Me, I shall give you protection from all sinful reaction." So here is God, and He is accepted by great ācāryas. In India there were great ācāryas, religious leaders. Just like Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbarka, later Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and many others. They accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So there is God, His name, His address, His activities, everything is there. If you accept, then you will benefit.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: How should society be organized in order to achieve these goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You organize that there should be division of different classes of men. The first class men, the second class men, the third class men, fourth class men. The first-class men means the most intelligent class of men. Second-class men means those who are dealing in politics. Third-class men means those who are dealing in economics, industry, trade. And fourth-class men means they have no intelligence to take up all these things, but they work only. But all of them should cooperate. For the general benefit of the whole human society. We have got engagement for the first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Just like we have got in our body the brain, the arms, the belly, and the legs. But all of them are cooperating for keeping the body fit. Similarly, the first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men should cooperate for achieving the end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Bhagavān: It's not that one class is feeling exploited by another class.

Prabhupāda: No. No. Helping. Just like when there is some pain in my leg. My brain is working how to cure it. It is helping. It is not exploiting. Similarly, my brain wants to go somewhere to see something. My leg is helping to carry me there. Just like you wanted to see me. Your brain said that: "I must see this man." Your leg carried you. This is cooperation. You have got some capacity. You do it for the benefit of the society so that he may become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This, this plan is perfect socialism. Socialism, socialism means everyone is working for elevation of everyone to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because that is the highest perfection of life.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: If one is himself deaf, he'll think others are deaf. So ātmavat manyate jagat, everyone thinks the whole world is like him. Therefore they think Kṛṣṇa also like him. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). That is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā that "These rascals, because I come in human form to benefit them, they take Me as human being." That is mentioned. But these things are taken like that by the mūḍhas. Mūḍhas means rascals, asses.

David Lawrence: Really they're just talking, as you say, from within their own experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But we are concerned with the real life. We are consider, concerned with the real life. If you can produce one real life, a small ant, not human being, then I shall think that you are successful in your program. But that you cannot do. Why do you talk nonsense? Therefore you are cheating. Why should he say: "That I cannot say," if he's not confident. That means cheating. Everyone is doing that. He's not confident about his theory, and he's speaking long, long speech. And people are fools. They are hearing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is leading many blind man. What is the benefit? The leader has no eyes, and he's leading many blind men. What is the use?

Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Yes.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Reporter (3): ...continuous flow?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a spiritual process because Kṛṣṇa and the name Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa the person and Kṛṣṇa the name, They are nondifferent, Absolute. That is the God's special power. Just like in the material world, if you want water, simply by chanting the name "water," you'll not be benefited.

Reporter (3): No.

Prabhupāda: But in the spiritual world, the name, "water," and the substance water, is the same. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is the same. So if you chant Kṛṣṇa, you immediately directly contact with Kṛṣṇa.

Reporter (3): What do you see as being the future of the world? What will happen? Will there be an end?

Prabhupāda: Future, future of the world, because the people are trained up in the bodily consciousness of life, "I am this body." So so long people will remain in bodily consciousness of life, that is animal life. That is not human life. So they have to be educated to spiritual consciousness of life, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul." Then they'll be benefited. Otherwise, they'll degrade more and more.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we should preach strongly and they should know that we also preach.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they should know that it is for their benefit we are making them life members, not for our benefit. And that should be the motive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They should give with that motive.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we should deal with them so that they may develop their Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you simply make it a point, somehow or other take some money from them and let them go to hell, that is not... That is transcendental fraud. What do you think, Gargamuni?

Gargamuni: Yes. We have to preach. (S.P. laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes. If by the dress of sannyāsī, you take some money and eat and sleep, then it is transcendental fraud. (SP laughs) (Hindi) Just like others are toiling, and we are getting money by some dress. That's all. They are getting money by laboring hard, and we are getting money... In India, mostly the sannyāsīs, they do that. The priests also, they do that. This is our profession, just... My Guru Mahārāja said that ṭhākura dekhiye pāya rasta karache, rastaye 'yandiya jīvika badram karam bhari (?). Instead of earning livelihood by showing the Deity in the temple, it is better to take the profession of a sweeper in the street and live honestly. He said like that. The sweeper is working hard toiling and getting some money and living. This is honest living.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Suppose if you leave this room, you go on the street, you can chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare... Nobody... There is no taxation. There is no loss. But the gain is very great by chanting. And this is recommended in this age, not sophistically to find out a dark room. No. It may be suitable for a particular person. But for mass of people, where is the facility of getting a dark room while going on the street? Suppose you are going on the street or in a car to your office, can you arrange for the dark room? But you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa without any dark room. So which is better? For concentrating your mind, for meditating, if you have to make so many facilities arrangement, and without any arrangement, if you can do, which one is better? Without any arrangement. That is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Without any arrangement, immediately you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Without any consideration of your age, of your religion, of your country, of your nationality, of your color, caste, anything. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that is being done, and the whole world is accepting. We are not recommending that "Go to a dark room." Neither it is required. Everything must be for mass benefit. That is only this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. What do you think?

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Banker: Welfare. Payment to people who don't work.

Prabhupāda: No, everyone should work. Our Vedic philosophy is that everyone must work. But there must be division of work. Just like in your body there are different parts. The head department, the arms department, the belly department, and the legs department. These are different parts. So all these departments must work for the total benefit of the body. That is our philosophy. Nobody should sit idle. But he must work according to his capacity. Brain must work for giving direction. Hand must work for giving protection. Belly must work for supplying food, energy. And leg must work for carrying the body. So similarly the society must be divided: the brain of the society, the arms of the society, the belly of the society and the legs of the society. That will make perfection. The brain will give direction That is the brāhmaṇas. The arms will give protection. That is the kṣatriya. And the belly will give energy, food, that is vaiśya. And the legs will carry the body. That is śūdra. This is... Whole society should be divided into four divisions, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas and the śūdras. And they should work cooperatively for the total benefit of the body. This is perfect life. Not that everyone should be brain. Then who will carry me? Just like in your bank, the manager is the brain.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I have already explained. There must be a class of men like me. They are called brāhmaṇa. They should help others. One who cannot rise so early, they will help him by his knowledge. He, the man who cannot rise early in the morning and cannot take the brahminical principle, śūdra, kṣatriya, vaiśya, he should be helped with the knowledge acquired by the brāhmaṇa. Just like the same example. The leg. Leg is not brain. The brain will give direction to the leg, "You go this side." Then it is perfect. The leg has no brain, but the brain is there. If he takes the advice of the brain and goes... Just like... It is called the logic of blind and lame. There is a lame man and there is a blind man. The lame man cannot walk, and the blind man cannot see. They should join. The blind man took the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man giving direction, and the blind man is going nicely. So by the cooperation of the blind and the lame, the work is done perfectly. Andha-kañjatā-nyāya. Similarly, it is not required that everyone has to become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible. So if the brāhmaṇa and the śūdra combine together, work, then both their lives will be perfect. Here you cannot expect everyone as brāhmaṇa, in this material world. That is not possible. Because in the material world three qualities are working. So one may be brāhmaṇa, another may be kṣatriya, another may be vaiśya, another may... So they should cooperate. Then everyone's life will be perfect. That is the program. That is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are creating brāhmaṇas. So others, they should cooperate. Then their life will be also perfect. Just like these people are preaching that "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and refrain from sinful activities." So if people take advice from these men, simple thing... Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is not difficult. Anyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And no illicit sex life. No... Even one cannot follow these restrictions, if he chants, he will be benefited.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...for others it is said. For Kṛṣṇa, it is mercy. The gopīs came with lust. They became purified with Kṛṣṇa's association. Gopīs actually, superficially, externally, they are, means, nitya-siddha, ever-liberated expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy, internal energy. But apparently, they left their father, husband and came to Kṛṣṇa. So that is, from Vedic principle, it is wrong. One young girl cannot go to other young man, giving up the protection of father, brother, and... So they did it. So they, according to Vedic principle, it is sinful. But because it was related with Kṛṣṇa, they became purified. That means any way, if one comes in contact with Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. Even though he's sinful. That is Kṛṣṇa's... That is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sun is never infected. Rather, the infected area becomes sterilized by the sunshine. This is the process. That is explained. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is very powerful, he has no fault. So how your temperature is going on?

Śyāmasundara: Everything is getting very nicely improved.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hm. She is very highly criticized.

Śyāmasundara: So she needs to get some political benefit from associating with Hindus during some functions just now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will counteract.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: "And also he needs that association with India leaders. Because America is..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If she comes, then we shall have to give a nice speech so that she may be convinced.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Very flatter... I think, I think we should flatter her completely.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That can be done, yes. Sometimes yogis, they can perform that better body, he transfers himself into that body. Just Śaṅkarācārya did, yes.

Karandhara: What they do, though, they wait till someone's dying or dead, and immediately after they die, they take the heart. From somebody who had the weak heart they transplant, change the heart.

Prabhupāda: So what...? There is no benefit.

Karandhara: But that does not mean that the soul from the old heart, or the new heart is being changed into the new body.

Bali Mardana: The soul has already left. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the soul is individual. As I told yesterday that dead body has got the ingredients to produce life. But that the man who has left his body, you cannot produce him. That is the proof of individuality. That is the proof of individuality.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom information? Another rascal? What is that information? If you get information from another rascal, what you'll get benefit? The source of information must be perfect. Then you get information, it is all right. If you are a rascal and if you get information from another rascal, then what is the benefit?

Karandhara: They'd say there is no perfect source.

Prabhupāda: Because you are not... You're cheater, you're cheater, you are cheated, therefore that is your version.

Karandhara: We are imperfect. How do we know what a perfect source is?

Prabhupāda: No, I do not know. Therefore it is said, tad-vijñānārthaṁ gurum evābhigacchet. You must know from the person who knows.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah? Well his perfection is proved there is satisfaction. The so-called scientists, philosophers, politicians, they could not bring peace in the world. That is their fools.

Karandhara: We have also not brought peace in the world.

Prabhupāda: No, our all followers are peaceful. We... I'm getting thousands of letters, how much you are benefited.

Devotee: United Nations gets thousands of letters.

Hṛdayānanda: I don't think so.

Prabhupāda: They get letters protest, that "You, rascal, United Nations, what you are doing for this?"

Karandhara: No, they're getting millions of dollars in contributions every year from people that think they're doing...

Prabhupāda: No, that "in future." No. That is his philosophy. (devotees laugh)

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They can repair their nest with some stick, and that's all. That much they can do. But you can big, big beams, you can... That is the difference.

Yaśomatīnandana: Because even the most powerful birds we can control.

Prabhupāda: But, but there is no benefit. You are misusing your intelligence by skyscraper building, and they're using their intelligence to make a nest; but the benefit derived is equal. Therefore, in that sense you are less intelligence.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In other words, they never violate the laws of nature, but other..., we are backward, because we tried to fight against the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our disease.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they are more advanced.

Devotee (2): Practically you said that.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Devotee (2): That the birds are living naturally.

Prabhupāda: Yeah, naturally. No... They have no discrimination. They have to abide by the laws of nature. But you have got discrimination; therefore you are punished.

Prabhupāda: So far the statement goes, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3), one can understand. But even one person understands, it is beneficial for many. Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: Just like you understood your Guru Mahārāja's message, and the whole world is benefited.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Yaśomatīnandana: Not everybody can be that potent. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...just like the sunshine is open to everyone, but if you do not take advantage of it, that is your fault. Sunshine is not meant for, specifically for any person. It is open to everyone. But if you purposefully close your door, and do not see the sunshine, that is your fault.

Umāpati: There's some austerity, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?

Umāpati: They're sleeping on the beach.

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit of their sleeping? (laughter)

Umāpati: They save their rent money.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That is his misfortune. That is a young man's fashion in your country.

Umāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is not austerity. That is licentiousness.

Umāpati: So why should he require us to go through austerities like...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācārya means he must show by example. Āpani ācari bhakti śikhāimu sabāre. Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Umāpati: Is there such a thing as a sincere atheist...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: ...who benefits by austerity?

Prabhupāda: Atheist? Atheist? How he's sincere?

Umāpati: That's what I... That's what I'm asking.

Prabhupāda: Honest thief? It is contradictory. If I say, "Here is an honest thief," is that a good designation, honest thief?

Umāpati: Well, in that case, that's so. You're right. It's absurd. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we have to do this chanting, not sit down in a solitary place, chanting himself. No, not like that. You are to vibrate the sound for the benefit of others.

Umāpati: That is the mystical process of this movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So that their heart may be cleansed and they can understand. And if I sit down in a solitary place, for my benefit, that may be his benefit, but it is not very high class engagement. He must sacrifice for others. Pararthe prag utsri, utsri(?). That is the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's moral instruction, that "Everyone should sacrifice for the Supreme." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is God Himself. He comes down to preach, to become sannyāsī, and to take so much trouble all over India and everywhere, and giving instruction and sending men, "Go, go, go, go." What? Why you...? He's perfect. Why He's coming? He doesn't require. No. For the benefit of others, we must follow the footsteps of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (aside:) That's all right. Why water is here?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now, there's sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when these animals are sacrificed according to śāstric injunctions.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think they are benefited.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are benefited.

Karandhara: Also the animal also has the chance to come back in it's next life and kill the person that killed the animal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: So it's a great risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māṁ saḥ. Mām, mām means "me." Saḥ means "he". "He eats me." That is meat.

Bali Mardana: In Nepal, they kill thousands of black goats and buffaloes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But never they kill cows.

Bali Mardana: We have to be led by someone who can see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, if you led by another blind man, what is your benefit? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). And our thankless task is... Just like a blind man going, falling into the ditch, we say, "No, no. Don't go there. You'll fall down." But he becomes angry, "Why you are instructing me?" That is our thankless task. We have to do it. How we can see that this blind man is going...? He'll immediately fall and die. How we can remain silent? We must have to say. That is our business, that "For want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are going to die. Take it. Be saved." But they do not like it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: People want to be cheated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the society of cheater and cheated.

Prajāpati: Sometimes great souls, they will cheat people also for their own benefit?

Prabhupāda: Uh? But a great soul will never cheat. One who cheats, he's not great soul. He's the menial soul. Soul is not menial or great, but he's covered by māyā.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But Lord Buddha cheated the...

Prabhupāda: Hmmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Lord Buddha.

Prabhupāda: Cheat, His cheating was perfect, because he cheated for the good. They did not believe in God, and God came, "Yes there is no God. Just follow me." But he's God. That's all.