Prabhupāda: Broader way. Actually, we develop economics for getting the necessities of life. Is it not? That is economics.
Maurice Rougemont: Yeah. But the point is that these necessities of life is a frontier, you know, . . . (indistinct) . . . which is always farther and farther and farther, always more pushed, pushed away, pushed away by new things. So . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is artificial. That is artificial. We are not concerned with artificial things. Just like you require to eat. Now artificially you can increase so many things for eating purposes. But you must eat. That is the economic question. It is not that you should starve. It is not our proposal that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious by starving. No. So you must have sufficient necessities of life.
Maurice Rougemont: All right. So . . . the purpose for economic plan of all the planet, for the world, would be everybody can eat, and I suppose just, just eating and some clothes and some roof to be, if you are in a cold country . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. Eating, sleeping . . . sleeping requires roof, apartment. So it includes your housing, your eating, your sex urge and your defense. Everything should be nicely. So arrangement should be made that people are not harassed for these necessities of life.
Maurice Rougemont: And all the rest is superfluous. Is too much.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Maurice Rougemont: All the rest is superficial, is superficial.
Prabhupāda: What is superficial?
Śrutakīrti: Extra. Not needed.
Yogeśvara: Anything beyond these four basics is . . .
Prabhupāda: That is necessities of life. Because you have got this body, so you must supply the necessities of the body. That we supply. Not only that, we want to keep men in so peaceful condition . . .
(pause)
. . . that he's not disturbed by mental anxieties, bodily disease, natural disturbances and fighting or quarreling with other living entities. So when he's perfectly in peaceful condition of life, he can save time for advancement in spiritual consciousness.
Maurice Rougemont: Sure. So . . .
Prabhupāda: But aim is that his life . . . everyone's life is meant for spiritual realization. So to . . . in order to achieve this end of life he must be kept in peaceful condition of life.
Maurice Rougemont: Sure. But . . . (French)
Yogeśvara: He asks, "In order to achieve these goals, is it our intention to do like the Christians and make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?"
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yogeśvara: In order to achieve our goals, do we intend doing like the Christians tried to do, making everyone convert to their side? Is that what we want to do, make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, why everyone should not take to it?
Maurice Rougemont: (French)
Yogeśvara: Ah. This is an important question. He says seeing the world as it is today, what is the most preferable social organization from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: How should society be organized in order to achieve these goals?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You organize that there should be division of different classes of men. The first-class men, the second-class men, the third-class men, fourth-class men. The first-class men means the most intelligent class of men. Second-class men means those who are dealing in politics. Third-class men means those who are dealing in economics, industry, trade. And fourth-class men means they have no intelligence to take up all these things, but they work only.
But all of them should cooperate for the general benefit of the whole human society. We have got engagement for the first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Just like we have got in our body the brain, the arms, the belly and the legs, but all of them are cooperating for keeping the body fit. Similarly, the first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men should cooperate for achieving the end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Bhagavān: It's not that one class is feeling exploited by another class.
Prabhupāda: No. No. Helping. Just like when there is some pain in my leg, my brain is working how to cure it. It is helping; it is not exploiting. Similarly, my brain wants to go somewhere to see something, my leg is helping to carry me there. Just like you wanted to see me. Your brain said that, "I must see this man," your leg carried you. This is cooperation. You have got some capacity, you do it for the benefit of the society so that he may become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This, this plan is perfect socialism. Socialism . . . socialism means everyone is working for elevation of everyone to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because that is the highest perfection of life.