If we voluntarily render service, out of love, that is spiritual energy. And we are forced to render service under pressure, that is material energy. In the material energy we are forced. Who wants to become... Suppose you are American. If somebody says, "Would you like to become a dog next life?", would you like? Anybody would like? What do you think? (laughter) But according to his work, he will be forced to accept. There is no saying, "No, no. I don't like this sort of life." No. He will be forced. That is material energy. Forced, just like criminal law. "Oh, you have to go to the prison." "I don't want." You will be forced. "I don't want." He will be arrested, immediately. There is sufficient power. There is police, there is military, there is so many things. You cannot say no.
Arrest (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
So this is the position of the materialistic person. A materialistic person knows that he is sinful. A materialistic person knows that whatever he is doing is wrong, but he cannot check. Just like the thief. A thief knows that if he commits stealing, he will be arrested, he will be punished. He knows. Because he heard from lawbooks, from other sources, and he has also seen that a thief is arrested and he is taken by the police for being punished. So we have got two kinds of experiences: by hearing and by seeing directly.
So many things they have. So when Hiraṇyakaśipu was defeated, all the devatās, they did not make such aggression, but the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu—Kāyadhu, I think—she was arrested by Indra and was taken. She was crying, just usual, woman. But she was being dragged by Indra. So Nārada was passing. Now, he said, "What are you doing this?" "No, there is no question of harassing this woman.
So anyway, so as we are here, in this small government, our business is to satisfy the governor... Suppose if you decry the queen. If you say publicly in a meeting that "Queen is a prostitute." Then what will be? Immediately you will be arrested and punished. In your private house you can say. Nobody will hear. But if you say such thing nonsense in public, immediately you will be criminal. Therefore your duty is to respect the queen, to abide by the orders of the government.
What is the value of police force unless government gives the power? Does it mean... Suppose a Mr. John, he comes as a policeman. He's Mr. John. What power he has got? But because government has given him power, he can arrest you. Similarly, Māyā has no powers. Kṛṣṇa has given her power to chastise these individual souls who are defying the authority of Kṛṣṇa.
This one example will stop millions of thieves not to commit stealing. Simply by cutting. Even a hundred years ago this system was prevalent in Kashmir. If a thief is arrested and if he's proved that he has stolen, immediately king will cut off his two hands. Bas, finished. No court witness. And it will go for ten years to find out whether he has stolen.
We have seen. Two brother quarreling—one brother was killed by one brother, and he was arrested, and he was ordered to be hanged. Then his father appealed to the court that "My two sons... One is already lost. So this may... He may be spared of his life." This I have actually seen.
Whatever form may be, (it is) force. We shall see form later on. You just... Just like a police sends a warrant, arrest. You do not ask what is the form of the police, but here is warrant, you have to go. Force, that's all. Similarly, don't try to understand what is māyā's form, but you just feel her force, how she is acting. How she is putting you in difficulty.
Simply by... There are many so-called mendicants in India. They, I mean to say, loiter in the street naked, and sometimes they are arrested by the police, like that. Imitation is not required. Imitation is not required. But there is a stage like that. Just like a madman. Sometimes a madman, he also, I mean to say, wanders the street naked. So he is also compact in some thought, but he is a madman.
Any component part of the state, citizen, is to sacrifice everything for the state. In your country also, the draftboard is calling, "Come on. You have to go to the fight." But you cannot say "No," because you are component part of the state. If you deny, then you are not a good citizen. You'll be arrested, you'll be harassed by the government. Similarly, we are component parts of the whole, supreme whole.
Now this Shahjahan, the theme of this book is that Aurangzeb, the son of Shahjahan, he was the second son of Shahjahan, Emperor Shahjahan, and he made a clique. He killed his elder brother, he killed his younger brother, and he arrested his own father in the fort, and he manipulated things in such a way, politician, and he became the king, emperor, king, emperor.
Now, why you have made the hero Shahjahan? Shahjahan is on the background. The old man is arrested in the fort of Agra. He is sitting there. Why you have named the Shahjahan?" Now, just see the purpose of the author.
Shahjahan was the father; he could not tolerate that his eldest son was killed, his youngest son was killed, and he was arrested. This was a political maneuver by Aurangzeb. But actually, the hero, the sufferer, was the Shahjahan, Emperor Shahjahan." Now, just see. The mind of the author was disclosed by the author. Nobody could interpret what was the intention.
Just like in government. A person may say, "I don't care for government. I don't like government." That you can say. But you are controlled. If you go against the government, immediately you'll be arrested and put into the jail. You'll be controlled. You can say like a madman that "I don't want to be controlled. I don't care for government."
If he acts criminally, simply sinful activities, and by such, he is punished to get another body which is sinful, pāpa-yoni, then what is, how his money will save him? No, that cannot save. Just like if you have become criminal and you are arrested by the state. Suppose you are millionaires. Your money will save you? No. That will not save.
The solution is we have to surrender unto the Supreme. Just like if you are arrested by the police, then it is very difficult to get out of their clutches. But if you are a good citizen, surrendered soul to the state, there is no problem. The police has nothing to do with you.
So it is not possible to overcome the stringent laws of material nature, exactly like if you are once arrested by the police department, it is not very easy to come out. So mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14).
Pāpam means sin. So sin, we commit sins out of ignorance. Our sinful nature is due to ignorance. Just like a person who does not know the laws of the state, he commits something which he does not know, but he is captured, he is arrested under the law. So similarly, all kind of sins we perform, it is due to ignorance. And ignorance is no excuse at the same time.
The mind is very agitating, so it has to be fixed up on the heart. Mano hṛdi-nirudhya. Nirudhya means just arresting the mind within the heart. Mūrdhni, mūrdhny ādhāyātmanaḥ prāṇam āsthito yoga-dhāraṇām.
Just like if somebody has done something wrong he is taken to the court and the judge gives his decision, whether he is criminal or not. The man who has arrested him, he cannot give the decision. It has to be tried by the higher authority. Then the judgment will be. Anything more?
Do you give any value to this logic, nonsensical logic? No sane man will accept, "by chance." When you are caught and you are convicted, then if you say, "By chance, I became convicted"? By chance? No. You committed theft, you were arrested, there were due judgment, and the judge has given you punishment. You must suffer. It is not a chance.
You are in power." Gandhi did always like that. "Here is no justice, so why shall I plead for justice?" That was Gandhi's philosophy, noncooperation. Whenever he was arrested, he will simply stand. That's all. Of course, he was given a seat. Such a big man, the court would offer him a seat. But he will never plead yes or no. "No, whatever you like, you can do. I don't expect justice from you." That was Gandhi's... He'll never plead.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
The police is there not for harassing you if you take a twig from the tree and he'll come, "Why you have taken?" You have got that experience? Because they have no other business than trifle things, they are very busy: "Oh, come on with me," arrested. They have built up their empire by exploiting the whole world, and if somebody takes a twig from the St. James Park, he's arrested. You see? Because there is no religious life. Fools, rascals, they do not know how to rule over. On trifle things they will, "Come on." And when there is a pickpocket, they will go away. You ask police, they will pass by. You see?
Just like Jagāi-Mādhāi, when they... In the beginning, they were very much adverse to saṅkīrtana, hari-saṅkīrtana, but one day, the Mādhāi was telling to Jagāi, "My dear brother, Jagāi, after all, these rascals sing very nicely, (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. They sing ver..." "Oh, you are going to be Vaiṣṇava?" "No, no. I am not going to be Vaiṣṇava. (laughter) I'm just appreciating. They sing very nicely." So you go like that. They will arrest you. You have got good experience. In London, they were arrested. You were in London. How many times you were arrested?
Our record is that our people were arrested thirty-six times. They... Now the police has become disgusted. They don't arrest. Yes. But this thing is going on in Australia, especially in Melbourne. I have got, received... So they asked me what to do? To do? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and you'll get good opportunity. When you are put into jail, you'll be free to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So they are doing that.
They are chanting. In London, the most important street, Oxford Street, we send our men. In Melbourne, they're, they're now arresting. I do not know what is the position now. But they are prepared. These boys and girls, so nice that they're arrested sometimes. Just like Kazi was torturing Caitanya Mahāprabhu's party. Of course, now, civilized world, there is no such torturing, but our men are, very often they are arrested and put into jail also. But still, they go. They go every day. Now in London, the police has become disgusted. They don't, do not arrest anymore. Yes. So I say that if you are arrested, why you should be sorry? You go in the jail and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So that others will get the opportunity to hear about Kṛṣṇa.
Because the drunkards want to drink, so government gives facility: "All right. Here is a liquor shop. You drink." But as soon you commit some offense by drinking, you are arrested. So this arrest of the drunkard, is it the government's will or the person created such situation to be arrested? So in this way, the whole world is going on. Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu na me dveṣyo 'sti na priyaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am equal to everyone.
Suppose I belong to some foreign embassy. So I have done something criminal. So the American government cannot arrest me from the embassy. When I come out, he can arrest. So ships also, when they are on the port of a foreign country, so on the ship also the foreign police force cannot arrest anyone. These are the etiquette, law.
Similarly, if we do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious while we have got this opportunity, this human form of life, we can understand what is Kṛṣṇa, and if we willfully do not take to this consciousness, then the māyā will act. Therefore... Just like a person knows that "I am committing these sinful activities. I'll be arrested by the police and maybe I'll be hanged. I'll have to give my life." He knows it, but he does it.
One must be fully conscious, "Now what I am doing, it is wrong." Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Just like a person who is a thief, he knows that "I am stealing, and if I am arrested, I'll be punished." He knows that. And he has seen that one thief is arrested. So we get two kinds of experiences. One kind of experience by hearing: "If you do this, then the result will be this." That is hearing. And one kind of experience by directly seeing.
Pradyumna: "Thus seeing the disturbance of the general populace and the imminent destruction of the planets, Arjuna at once retracted both brahmāstra weapons, as Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa desired. Arjuna, his eyes blazing in anger like two red balls of copper, dexterously arrested the son of Gautamī and bound him with ropes, like an animal."
Prabhupāda:
- prajopadravam ālakṣya
- loka-vyatikaraṁ ca tam
- mataṁ ca vāsudevasya
- sañjahārārjuno dvayam
- (SB 1.7.32)
- tata āsādya tarasā
- dāruṇaṁ gautamī-sutam
- babandhāmarṣa-tāmrākṣaḥ
- paśuṁ raśanayā yathā
- (SB 1.7.33)
Prajopadravam ālakṣya. This is the duty of the king or the government—to see that the citizens are in peaceful condition. So two brahmāstra weapons released, one by Aśvatthāmā and by Arjuna, it created a havoc, catastrophe. And the people were suffering. So this is the duty of the government, to see that everyone is in peaceful condition. During Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time they were so happy that it is stated that there was not even scorching heat and pinching cold also.
I think I have told you one story about Shah Jahan, the emperor of India. A, one great drama writer, Mr. P.L. Raya, he wrote one book by the name, title, Shah Jahan. But the activities of the whole book was the nefarious actions of Aurangzeb. He was killing his brothers, arresting father and so many. So one friend of Mr. Raya asked him that "Your book Shah Jahan, in the activities, the actual hero is Aurangzeb. Why you have named Shah Jahan?" So he replied that although Shah Jahan is silent, but the effect is going to him.
They were raising revenues to the extent of twelve lakhs, and the tax was going to the Nawab only four lakhs. So this is the business. So the minister arrested the father and uncle of Raghunātha, and they fled away from home. So the minister arrested Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. At that time he was not Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī; he was gṛhastha, young man, Raghunātha. So he handled the matter in such a nice way that the matter was settled between the minister and his father.
Women, they are very soft-hearted, vāma-svabhāvā. So although Aśvatthāmā killed her sons very mercilessly, and he was arrested and Kṛṣṇa ordered him to be killed, and Arjuna was just preparing to punish him, but vāma-svabhāvā, woman, being very soft-hearted, without any consideration, she immediately offered her respect, nanāma.
So she immediately ordered Arjuna, mucyatāṁ mucyatām: "Release him immediately. You have arrested a brāhmaṇa." Mucyatāṁ mucyatām eṣa brāhmaṇo nitarāṁ guruḥ. "Brāhmaṇa is always our guru. Although he has killed my sons, still, he stands to be my guru, your guru."
This example is shown by Rūpa Gosvāmī. Before his retirement he did it. But actually that everything was spent. When Sanātana Gosvāmī was arrested, it was spent. So this is full surrender. When Draupadī fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa without trying herself to save her, then unlimited yards of cloth was supplied, and she could not be made naked. But because the attempt was made in an assembly of crude, rude men, therefore it is said, asat-sabhāyāḥ.
So he was arrested. He was arrested by Arjuna, and he was to be killed. Kṛṣṇa ordered that "Kill him. He is not a brāhmaṇa. He is less than śūdra." So when he was arrested, then he was let loose by the request of Draupadī that "I am suffering for the death of my sons, and this rascal is the son of our Guru Mahārāja, Droṇācārya, who has done so much for us.
Some of them know also that "We'll be punished. We'll be arrested." Still, they go on. That is the difficulty. A thief knows that "If I am arrested for these criminal acts, I'll be punished." He knows it. And perhaps he has been punished several times. But still, he commits the same thing. Still, he steals. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30).
So why? Ignorance. Ignorance. So therefore this very word is used, avidyā. He never thinks... He is so much absorbed in ignorance that he has no time to think that "Repeatedly I am stealing, and repeatedly I am arrested, and I am punished. I sent to jail. Why I am doing this?" Result is not very good. Just like a person too much sexually inclined. He suffers in so many venereal diseases, undergoes operation, and still, he goes to prostitute, again does the same thing.
That's a fact. If you have no money, then you cannot appoint a good lawyer. And sometimes you have to bribe the judge also. This is the position now. Now in your country so many big, big men have been arrested or something like that for their dishonesty.
In the meantime a police officer was passing. He saw that drops of blood is coming out of the box. He immediately arrested. So this case was. Then the doctor was condemned to death. So Mr. Armstrong was appointed his lawyer. So he was solacing, "Don't worry, I shall get you released by appeal." So our so-called scientists, they also say like that: "In future we shall do this. In future. Now you go to hell.
So Vidura was cursed by Maṇḍūka Muni, Maṇḍūka Muni. He was a great sage, but sometimes in his āśrama, some thieves were caught, so police arrested both the Maṇḍūka Muni and the thieves, and later on Maṇḍūka Muni was chastised to be punished by śūla. There was a system of punishment. I do not whether (it is) still existing. The śūla means one lance, lancer. Lancer, it is called?
That is practical. So we are associating in, being infected by lust, greediness, illusion, fearfulness, so many things. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat (SB 7.5.5). If you steal, then you will be under fearfulness: "Oh, I may not be arrested; I may be arrested." Because you have done that, asad-grahat, you have done something wrong, therefore you are under the influence of fearfulness. It is very easy to understand.
So you can give up this impious activities provided you are engaged fully in devotional service. Otherwise it is not possible. Simply by moral instruction, that "Stealing is very bad. Don't steal," nobody likes it. Nobody likes it. It is practical. One man has stolen, and he's arrested and he's going to the police custody. So everyone has seen, and he has heard also that the government says that if you steal, you'll be punished. In the Bible or in any other religious scripture it is said that stealing is not good.
Just like when you begin to break laws, everyone, then government becomes very furious, arrest, punish, hang—these things are going on. But if you are abiding by the laws of government, there is no such question to harass you. There is no... You live peacefully.
You can become the smaller... There was a saintly person in Benares, Trailanga Baba. So he was practiced to sit naked in the public road. So government objected that "You cannot sit naked here." So he did not speak. So he was arrested and taken to the custody and put into the jail. He again came out. He again came out.
And if one was caught, a thief, his hands will be cut off. In Kashmir state this was the rule. As soon as a thief is arrested and if he's proved that he has stolen, the only punishment is cut his throat, aḥ, cut his hands. Bas. Exemplary punishment so that nobody will dare to steal.
So I inquired the police, "Why these people are running away?" So he answered, "You do not know Bābājī, that they are criminals. Because we are passing, they are thinking, 'Now the police is coming to arrest us,' although there is no purpose. How one can arrest? But they are..." What is called, this? Culprit mind is always suspicious. Because they are culprit, criminals, as soon as they saw, "The policeman is coming," they began to go away, run away.
As soon as there is disobedience of law and order, immediately police department must go and punish and arrest. We can experience these things. Similarly, by God's side, there is such department, police department. That is māyā, Durgādevī. Durgādevī, you have seen.
You know the story of Alexander the Great and the thief. Alexander the Great arrested one thief, and he was going to punish him. The thief pleaded, "Sir, you are going to punish me, but what is the difference between you and me? I am a small thief, you are a great thief.
The māyā's business is to capture. Just like criminal is arrested by the police, similarly, māyā is also engaged for this purpose. Anyone who forgets Kṛṣṇa, anyone who wants to enjoy life, imitate like Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is the supreme enjoyer.
If I say, "I don't believe in government," then "What is the government, sir? You will do something wrong and it will be caught up, you will be arrested, and you will be punished. You believe or not believe. It doesn't matter." Similarly, if these rascals say, "I don't believe in God," so you can say like madman, but God says, "Yes, you don't believe..." Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He did not believe in God.
There was a story, Alexander and the thief. The Alexander arrested one thief, big dacoit, plunderer. So when he explained, "My dear sir, Alexander, so what is the difference between you and me? I am also plunderer; you are also plunderer. I am a small plunderer; you are a big plunderer.
On account of these two things—icchā, that "I shall live independently without the control of the government. Whatever I like, I shall do," this icchā, and dveṣa, "I don't like to carry out the orders of law," dveṣa—this is very nice example—the result is that he will be arrested, and he will be put into the jail.
That means influence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However you deny... Just like crazy fellow. They think that "I have nothing to do with government laws." But the influence of government must be felt when he is arrested and put into the jail. Similarly, by time factor we may do something now without any fear, but time factor will place me in the fearful condition without any fail.
And unfortunately one day we had one car which was running at thirty-five miles only, and our Gaurasundara was driving. (chuckling) Immediately he was arrested by the police. Not exactly arrested—stopped. That means you cannot run your car in this way, thirty-five miles speed. So now from impartial point of view, if we study why people are running in this way and that way...
That murdering is committed by one man, but if has got many associates who has induced him, who has supplied him the weapon, or giving, so many assisted—all of them are arrested. This is the law. As we have got law here, here we can escape man-made laws, but you cannot escape God-made laws. That is not possible. Man-made laws sometimes we escape because everything made by man, that is insufficient, imperfect.
If you take one apple, it, it has no cost here practically. And somebody's stealing from your box hīrā. Hīrā means diamond. But if these two classes of thieves are arrested, according to law, they are punishable for six months imprisonment. The man cannot say, who has stolen one apple, "Oh, what is the price of this apple, sir? I have taken one apple.
You cannot avoid it. Just like the soldier. What is the duty of the soldier? Kill as many as possible the enemies. But the same soldier, if he comes back home and kills some of his men or countrymen and he is arrested and in the court, he is ordered to be hanged, and if he pleads that "I am a soldier. In the battlefield I have killed so many persons, and now I have killed one man.
This is called māyā. Māyā means... Ma means "not," yā means "this." "You are thinking like this, but it is not this." This is called māyā. You are thinking that you are happy, but you are not happy. So we are seeing that a criminal is arrested by the police and he is put into the prisonhouse. We know that he is put into trouble, but still, in spite of seeing that "This kind of criminality will put me also into such kind of distress," but still, I commit that thing. This is the influence of māyā. This is the influence of māyā.
So people, they know that "There is resultant action of this kind of sinful activity." He knows. Even if he does not know, he sees. Just like a man who has stolen, committed theft. One sees that he is arrested or he is punished, he is put into the prison, and still, he commits stealing. He knows. So similarly, we are hearing from the śāstra that "If you commit this sin..." Just like māṁsa. Māṁsa, this very thing, means, māṁ sa khadati.
Neither the state laws also allows stealing. A man knows. And suppose he's stolen in the past and he was punished or he sees that one who has stolen property, he is arrested by the police and he's being taken into custody. He has seen it, he has heard it. We experience. We gather our knowledge by seeing and by hearing.
Suppose one is very pet son of his father, and he commits murder, and he thinks "If there is any punishment my father will suffer." Will it be done? Will it be done? When he is arrested, if he says, "No, you can release me. You can arrest my father because I am very pet son of my father," so will the government will do that, that you have committed murder and your father will be arrested? No. This is quite unreasonable. You have committed murder, you must be hanged. Nor your father nor your son nor your brother. This is the law. So that is the law. If you commit sinful life, then you must suffer, not anyone else. But we are thinking like that: "That let me go on doing all nonsense and somebody for me will suffer." No, that is not the law.
We get experience by two methods, by seeing and by hearing. Just like a criminal, thief, he has seen that previously a man who stole, he was arrested by the police and punished and he has heard also from authorities, from lawyers, that "Stealing is bad. If you are arrested you will be put into the prison." So this is the defect of the modern civilization. They are enacting so many laws to stop criminal but the criminality is increasing.
I may not have practical experience; I have heard it, and I see it also, that this man has committed theft and he's going to prisonhouse. He's arrested by the police and he's going. So dṛṣṭa-śruta. One hears, also practically sees. So dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpam (SB 6.1.9), that if one commits some sinful activities, and other sees it, and he also sees it, and he has heard it from scripture, still, janānn apy ātmano 'hitam. Ātmano, he knows that "This is not good for me." Ātmanā, ātmanā means for the soul.
Just like I gave you the example: If one man has committed criminal activities, he has to atone for the sinful activity. He must be arrested. He must be put into the jail and given some trouble for a certain period of time. And then he may be given freedom. So this atonement is there, by nature's law. You cannot avoid it.
Just like here it is said, dṛṣṭa. Dṛṣṭa means by direct experience. Direct experience everyone has seen, that a thief, he is arrested. This is our direct experience. He has committed theft, and therefore he is arrested by the police. It is our direct experience. And śrutābhyām, by hearing from the lawbook or scripture, whatever you take... In the lawbook it is stated that "You commit a theft, then you will be punished, imprisoned, for six months.
Or if you commit murder, then you will be hanged." This is called śrutābhyām, by hearing. We have got two senses: one, by the knowledge-acquiring senses, and practical working senses. So dṛṣṭa means our eyes are working, and we see that a criminal is arrested and he is punished. And śruta means knowledge-gathering. Just like you gather knowledge from book. So we have got two senses—not two senses, but ten senses: five senses, knowledge gathering, and five senses, directing, knowledge, working senses.
Just like here it is said, dṛṣṭa. Dṛṣṭa means by direct experience. Direct experience everyone has seen, that a thief, he is arrested. This is our direct experience. He has committed theft, and therefore he is arrested by the police. It is our direct experience. And śrutābhyām, by hearing from the lawbook or scripture, whatever you take... "O my dear lion, O king..." Lion is considered as the king of the animals, paśu rāja. Actually, he is the king in the jungle.
So he knows that "I am committing theft. I shall be punished if I am arrested." He knows it; otherwise why he goes silently at night and break? He knows it well that "If I am arrested I will be punished."
So śrutābhyām. Śruta means... Just like we are hearing the śāstra, so he has heard it from the lawbooks that if one commits theft he'll be punished. And he has seen also that a person who has committed theft, he is arrested by the police, so he was being taken to the prison house. So knowledge is acquired from two sources, by direct perception and by hearing.
Who does not know that stealing is sinful, committing murder is sinful, or so many other things? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquires that dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ jānann apy ātmano 'hitam (SB 6.1.9). "And he knows that 'It is not good for me; if I steal I'll be arrested, I'll be punished, I'll be put into jail. That is not a very comfortable life.' He knows that." Karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ. "But he commits again and again, vivaśaḥ, as if forced by something, forced by something." Karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ prāyaścittam atho katham (SB 6.1.9).
The people are suffering. Although one knows that "This is not good, what I am doing," he has heard, he has seen also the effect of it... The same example: A man who has stolen some property, he's arrested. And he knew it, that "If I steal, I'll be punished." But he has done it, the same thing. He knew it.
Because I have got the inclination to steal, to usurp other things, but if I restrain myself by the order of father or the śāstras, the laws... Just like a thief. He knows that if he steals, if he takes others' property, he'll be arrested and he will be punished. But he has got that bad inclination. That is called pāpa-bīja.
A civil instance:(?) just like here in London the car is driven from the left side, in America the car is driven by the right side. So suppose one comes from America, he's driving the car from the right side, the police arrest. "Why you arrest me, sir?" "Because you are driving on the right side." "That I know. I do not know that you have to drive left side." "That does not mean you are free from criminal charges.
Nitāi: "That fallen brāhmaṇa of the name Ajāmila was giving trouble to all other men by forcibly arresting them, cheating them by gambling with weighted dice, or by directly plundering someone. Thus he used to earn his livelihood to maintain his family by giving trouble and pain to others."
Prabhupāda:
- bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair
- garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ
- bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir
- yātayām āsa dehinaḥ
- (SB 6.1.22)
Bibhrat. Bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir yātayām āsa dehinaḥ. Bibhrat, we have to maintain our body. This is called bibhrat. That is necessary. We have got this body in this material world. This is not spiritual world. In the spiritual world there is no necessity of maintaining the body. The body is spiritual.
One American gentleman went there, "If this is the condition in our country, there would have been revolution. And these people do not even steal others' properties, dying starvation." Lonely man is going. He will arrest him, "Give me whatever you have got. Otherwise I will kill you." So this is bandī.
Bandy-akṣaiḥ. Just like it is very common thing, nowadays especially, that as soon as you find somebody solitary: "Yes, what you have got? Give me. Otherwise I shall kill you. Here is knife." This is called bandy-akṣaiḥ. Arrest somebody and take whatever he has got. This is called bandy-akṣaiḥ. And kaitavaiḥ, cheating: "I shall give you this. I shall..." There are so many cheating processes. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ. Cauryaiḥ means stealing. Cauryair garhitām. All these are condemned things.
Just like the magistrate punishes the criminal, what kind of punishment he should be awarded, how he will be allowed to live within the prison house. Just like a political prisoner. In our country just now they have... So many big, big leaders have been arrested. But they are not put in the same level of ordinary criminals. They are given all facilities.
So these Yamadūtas, they are accustomed to go to the sinful men like Ajāmila and many others. Their business is to arrest the sinful soul and take the soul to Yamarāja. So they were very much surprised by seeing these beautiful Viṣṇudūta. Viṣṇudūta.
So prahasya. Prahasya, now they are challenging, the Viṣṇudūta, that "You are claiming to become the servants of Yamarāja, and he is Dharmarāja, he is authority, and how is that you do not know whom to arrest and whom not to arrest? This man is now free from all sinful reaction. How is that you are claiming to be servant of Yamarāja, Dharmarāja, and do not know?" Therefore they were smiling.
They challenged, the Yamadūtas challenged: "Who are you, interfering in our business? We have come to arrest him." So, before talking, the, the counterchallenge was that "You spoke that 'We are servants of Dharmarāja. So it is his jurisdiction... This person is impious.
So here the Yamadūtas are analyzing whether Ajāmila is pious or impious. The Viṣṇudūtas asked them to explain what is dharma and what is adharma. "You have come here to arrest this person, to take away with to the yama... So you are servant of Dharmarāja. Now explain what is dharma and adharma." Dharma means which will bring me again to my original, constitutional position, and adharma means which will take me down and down from my original, constitutional position.
In another place, in the Third Canto, I think, it is described, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). We are acting in different way. We are not independent. This is foolishness. Just like an outlaw. He is thinking that he is free from the jurisdiction of state laws, and he is working irresponsibly, but when he is arrested, then he has no independence. He has to undergo the punishment. Similarly, in this life we may think very independent, "Whatever we like, we can do." That is foolishness. You cannot do that. If you do it wilfully, then you will be punished. That they do not know.
Necchan means unwilling. He doesn't like it. Just like even a thief: he is practiced to steal, so he knows that "I will be arrested again." He has had experience. He knows that "I will be again arrested, and I will go again to the jail, and will suffer there." But he is still forced to commit stealing again. A man suffering from venereal disease, he goes to the doctor, injection, so much painful.
So this person... There are many important words in this verse, and it can be explained for a long time. The one word is that stambhayann ātmanā ātmānam. Just like a thief is going to steal. He also tries to control him: "I am going to steal. The after-effect will be that I will be arrested, and I will have to go to jail, and it is forbidden by śāstra and human laws also, state laws. So I am going to steal. There is risk." Actually there is risk.
He knows that "This work is not good." If he is arrested, he will be punished. He has seen that one thief arrested and punished, and he has heard also that if one steals, he will be punished. And he has heard also from the śāstra, either law book or Vedic literature, that "Stealing is not good. It is punishable."
And there, according to his work, abominable work, he will be punished. Therefore the Yamadūtas said, tata enaṁ daṇḍa-pāṇeḥ sakāśaṁ kṛta-kilbiṣaṁ neṣyāmaḥ. "Now it is our duty." Just like police force, they are engaged to arrest the criminals and take him to the court or to the police officer for necessary action, so these Yamadūtas, they have given sufficient reason that "This man has committed sinful life; therefore he is punishable."
So here the same thing is stated, tata enaṁ daṇḍa-pāṇeḥ sakāśaṁ kṛta-kilbiṣam: "He has acted sinfully; therefore he is punishable, and he must be taken to the Yamarāja." Neṣyāmo akṛta-nirveśam. Nirveśam means... Suppose I have committed some sins. I must be arrested. Sometimes a great criminal voluntarily goes to the police and surrenders because he knows, "I will be arrested, and if I surrender immediately, my punishment may be lesser." So you cannot escape the punishment.
So this man deviated from bhāgavata-dharma. Therefore he was to be arrested by the Yamadūtas for purification. That was his external affair. But by chance, by the grace of the Lord, at the time of his death he chanted "Nārāyaṇa," not exactly meaning the Supreme Lord Nārāyaṇa, but his son's name was Nārāyaṇa. He was thinking that "I am being dragged by the Yamadūta.
So these Yamadūta, they did not know. So they came to arrest him. But Viṣṇudūta came to save him: "No, no. He is no more sinful. He is free from all sinful life. Don't do injustice." So for They are regretting that aho kaṣṭaṁ dharma-dṛśām adharmaḥ spṛśate sabhām. "Justice must be done very nicely." Prajānāṁ pitaro ye ca śāstāraḥ sādhavaḥ samāḥ. Prajānām, children, or the citizens, prajā Prajā means who has taken birth, national. Prajānāṁ pitaro.
The charge of Viṣṇudūtas for the Yamadūta was that they did not know whom to arrest and whom not to arrest. Therefore he was criticizing. Yamarāja is meant for arresting the criminals, sinful persons. But these Yamadūtas came to arrest Ajāmila, who was already relieved from all sinful actions simply by chanting "Nārāyaṇa." That was not known to them.
So vivaśaḥ: "Somehow or other, he has chanted the holy name of Hari." Asya pāpena daṇḍe kim artham akrośa kriyate tatrāhur ayaṁ hriyate:(?) (commentary) "Why you are attempting to arrest this person as criminal?" Yamadūta, yad yada vivaśi 'pi harer nāma vyājahāra uccaritavan:(?) "There was no intention of chanting the holy name of Hari, but even though consciously or unconsciously he has chanted the holy name of Hari, therefore he is now free."
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that even people joke with us, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," it goes to his credit, even joking. When this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement was started by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, at that time India was under Pathan rule, Muhammadan kingdom. So the constables, they were requested to "Arrest these chanters." The brāhmaṇas, the smārta brāhmaṇas, because Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that "Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra you will be liberated," so the smārta brāhmaṇas, they thought it very dangerous because their profession will be lost. So they protested to the magistrate, Muhammadan magistrate, Chand Kazi, that "This Caitanya, the Nimāi Paṇḍit, He has inaugurated one movement that 'Simply by chanting one will become liberated.' This is not according to our Hindu scripture.
Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was informed by His followers that "We have been ordered by the magistrate to stop..." Just like in foreign countries we are being very occasionally arrested by the police, taken to the jail. So many obstacles are there. But our students are so adamant, they don't stop. They prefer to go to jail, but they will never stop. They are so much determined.
So why don't you go to Jagannātha Purī and stay there? That is a nice pilgrimage, and you can stay there. Many holy men go there. Why you are in this village?" He wanted to drive him away from that village. "Oh, what is that Jagannātha? That is wood. I am Viṣṇu." As soon as he said, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura became fire. "Oh, this rascal is like that." He immediately ordered, "Arrest him. Arrest him." And he showed some fiery spark coming from his jāta. So the constables were hesitating to arrest him, but Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura ordered, "Yes, immediately arrest him. Handcuff." So he took him away, arrested. And as soon as he returned home, all the members of his family were in fever, high degree fever, and Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura himself was in fever. He made some trick, yogic trick. So his wife began to cry: "Oh, you have arrested one great yogi. He is Viṣṇu, and therefore we are now going to die. We are now..." (laughter) So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: "Yes, you die. All die. Still, what I have done is all right." Then when there is date for appearance in the court, in the court the man was brought, and yogi. You see? And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura asked... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was suffering still in fever. Still, he attended the court and asked the constables that "Cut his jāta."
Jāta is hair. Hair. Jāta. So no barber was available. (laughter) Because they knew that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, after arresting, he is suffering from fever. Whole family is lying down in fever. So nobody came forward to cut his jāta. So Bhaktivinoda: "All right, bring one scissor. I shall cut." So he personally cut, and personally cut, and that man became very thin immediately after cutting his jata.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So many. Everyone.
Guest: Just ten years ago there was, and he was speaking sometimes, "I am the incarnation. I am Brahman."
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Kanpur also one man has been arrested.
Guest: And just one man, he is coming, and thousands of people just near the (indistinct) protested. They are at liberty. They can do. "Why you are protesting?" Then we told, "He is misrepresenting the Vedānta and ācāryas. He doesn't accept the Veda-sanctioned authorities, so we don't want him."
So as there are Yamadūtas—they are arresting all the sinful persons—similarly, Viṣṇudūtas, they are always protecting the devotees. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28).
So Yamadūtas' business is to arrest the sinful. That is their... Here everyone is sinful. Nobody is free from sin. That is the position of this material world.
So sinful persons are arrested and taken to Yamadūtas. Similarly, Viṣṇudūtas are there. Bhūtāni viṣṇoḥ sura-pūjitāni. Sura means demigod.
So that pure devotee in transcendental position is always protected by the Lord. And His Viṣṇudūta is wandering everywhere. Just like Ajāmila. As soon as he was arrested by the Yamadūtas, immediately they approached. So as there are different police department, military police department, civil police department, similarly, there is transcendental police department. Don't be afraid. Yes, here it is stated.
So the evidence is that Ajāmila, simply by his chanting "Nārāyaṇa," he became saved from imminent danger, being arrested by the Yamadūtas, or death.
He learned this bhāgavata-dharma from the womb of his mother. His mother was instructed... His mother, when she was pregnant, she was arrested by the enemies of her husband, and Nārada Ṛṣi saved her and he took the girl, pregnant girl, at his āśrama and kept her. And as it is the practice of saintly persons to instruct about God, so he was instructing and Prahlāda Mahārāja was hearing from the womb of mother.
Their business is to steal. Why? They steal, they know it is risky,. He has heard it that "If you steal you'll be arrested, you'll be put into jail." Knowledge is gathered by hearing and by seeing. Hm? In Hindi it is called 'dekha śuna'-dekhavyair śunavyair, that "Have you seen or heard it?" That is experience.
Trailuṅga Swami, he was wandering in the street naked. Government... It is not very old story, say about 150 years ago this happened in Benares. So he was naked yogi, and government will not allow, police will not allow. So he was thrice arrested and put into the custody, and thrice he came out. Then he became very famous man, simply by exhibiting one perfection of yoga. That means a yogi can come out.
So all living entities who have disobeyed the order of Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), that is the principle. Every living entity must be obedient to Kṛṣṇa. But by misuse of his little independence, if he does not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, he immediately becomes arrested by māyā.
That is... You cannot avoid. Just like when you are foolish, you can say, "I don't believe in the government's law. Whatever, I shall do." But when you are arrested, then everything is finished. Then simply slap and shoes, that's all.
So the minister, in order to take advantage, he came to arrest Raghunātha Gosvāmī's father and uncle, and they fled away from the house. So the minister arrested Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, the son, because if he was chastised, he'll disclose the secret, where his father and uncle has fled.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
He formally wanted to resign the post, but the Nawab would not allow him to resign; therefore he was arrested. And somehow or other, he managed to come out of the prison and then join Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Benares.
He knows it. And he has seen it, that one man has stolen, or committed theft, he's arrested, taken by the police. He has seen it. But still he commits theft. Why? Why? Therefore it is a... That is my... I become habituated to serve the process of sense gratification in such low grade that what is not to be done, I still do it.
Recently we have become victorious, very recently in Melbourne. You know, our men were being arrested and prosecuted. But one, the chief clergyman, archbishop, he has recommended that "These people are very nice people, God conscious. Don't give them trouble." Yes. And the government has stopped harassing.
Just like a thief, he knows that by stealing he'll be punished, but still, because he's mad after stealing, he'll do it, taking the risk of being arrested and being harassed. Nūnaṁ prammattaḥ vikarma, nūnaṁ prammattaḥ kurute, yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti. And they are mad after doing all this nonsense only for sense gratification.
Pradyumna: (reading:) "...committed criminal acts but is not yet arrested for them. Now, as soon as he is detected, arrest is awaiting for him. Is awaiting him. Similarly, for some of our sinful activities we are awaiting distresses in the future, and for others, which are mature, we are suffering at the present moment. In this way..."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the chain of accepting different types of bodies, one after another. According to the sinful activities. On the total, without being sinful, nobody accepts this material body. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we understand: yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam, "One who has finished the reaction of his sinful activities," te dvandva-moha-nirmukta... (BG 7.28).
Atonement. So the example is given, just like a thief, he knows that stealing is not good. He has got experience that in the past he committed stealing, committed criminal offense by stealing, and he was arrested. Then he was punished. Still, he's stealing again.
A man knows that stealing is not good. By ordinary law, stealing is punished, and in the scriptures also, stealing is prohibited because it is sinful. And one has seen that a person who is a thief was arrested and was punished. Everything he knows, but still, he commits stealing. Why? Therefore Bhāgavata says through Śukadeva Gosvāmī that prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Simply official prāyaścitta will not help a man ceasing from sinful activities.
We shall mold our life in such a way... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, International Society, on this process, they are acting. They're publishing, they're going to saṅkīrtana party on the street—even they are arrested, they cannot forget Kṛṣṇa. Even they are put into the jail, there also, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa or remembering Kṛṣṇa, that "For pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have come to jail." And they are chanting; they're free to chant.
It does not change the quality. There was some talk, you know, between Alexander the Great and the robber. The robber proved that "You are a greater robber. That's all. Why you are trying to punish me?" Alexander the Great arrested one robber, and he was going to punish him.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So He was staying at Candraśekhara's house, and He was taking His meals at Tapana Miśra's house. In the meantime, Sanātana Goswami came to see Him. Sanātana Goswami, after retirement, he had many troubles. He was arrested by the Nawab because Nawab thought him that he was very important hand. "He has now... By sentiment, he's going to Caitanya." So he thought it wise to arrest him. And Sanātana Gosvāmī had some money, so he bribed the superintendent of jail, and he let him go away. So with great difficulty, he reached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Benares, and for two months he was instructed all the principles of devotional service and different incarnations.
So how can you make change? You cannot make change. The state law is that you must go to the right. Can you make any change? "No, I shall go to the left." Oh, at once you'll be arrested. If you cannot change the laws of your state, how you can change the laws of God? That means the more you violate the laws of God, the more you become sinful.
As the state laws are so stringent that if you commit some criminal thing... Simply by keeping marijuana and LSD you are still immediately arrested. You see. So what so speak of using them. (laughs) You see. So this is to be known. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that we should not violate.
Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence: "Yes, you steal. Come here. You steal. Here is the opportunity." But when you are arrested, you don't make responsible Kṛṣṇa. You wanted to steal. Here is the facility. That's all. So it is kindness of Kṛṣṇa that He is giving you all facilities. If you want to be a thief, He'll give you all facilities to be a first-class thief. And if you want to be a devotee, He'll give you all facilities to be a first-class devotee.
Sanātana Gosvāmī was the finance minister of Nawab Hussain Shah, the then Pathan government of Bengal. So he resigned his office. The Nawab was reluctant to give him release. He was arrested, but somehow or other he released himself by bribing the superintendent of jail and he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Benares, or Vārāṇasī. And for two months He gave him instruction how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
He became very, very sorry, that "If Sanātana Gosvāmī resigns, then my empire will be ruined. I was so confident that he is managing. Now he's going to resign, the whole responsibility will be mine." So he became very much disturbed. He arrested him, "No, you cannot resign, then I'll keep you arrested." So many things happened. But still he resigned and he came to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
With great difficulty he got rid of the responsibility of government. The Nawab arrested him because he was declining to obey his order. The Nawab wanted him to stay in his post, but he declined. So when the Nawab said that "You are declining my order and you are resigning from your post.
This is illegal. I shall arrest you," so Sanātana Gosvāmī, he replied that "You are the king, so according to our Vedic civilization a king is supposed to be the representative of God.
So I cannot disobey you. But now it is my duty to retire and join Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. Therefore I must do it." So he arrested him. So this Sanātana Gosvāmī, with great difficulty he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Vārāṇasī. At that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu was staying at Vārāṇasī. So he met Him there.
So they came down, because they were government men, they came down and challenged all these men that "You have given this man some drug so that he's fainted, and you wanted to plunder him. So we arrest you." Then they said, "No, sir. We have not done anything such. He faints like that while chanting. Now He'll be... Very soon He'll get up, because we are also chanting.
So at last it was... Nawab Shah said that "If you whimsically, whimsically resign your responsible post, then I shall arrest you." At this order, Sanātana Gosvāmī replied that "If you think I shall be punished, I shall accept it, because you are God's representative. You are God's representative." So this was the idea of king and Nawab.
Festival Lectures
So for atheist, this is God. When He'll take away everything, he'll understand, "Yes, there is God." Yes. Just like a civil disobedient person, when he's arrested and he's put into the bars and given severe punishment, then he understands, "Yes, there is government. There is government." So government is there.
This is Kṛṣṇa. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya... Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. Vasudeva, His father, was arrested, put into the prison house. To release him from the prison house, and to kill the Kaṁsa, duṣkṛtina, rākṣasa... The rākṣasika philosophy is "How to kill Kṛṣṇa, how to become godless." Kaṁsa was planning to kill Kṛṣṇa. That is... Kaṁsa, or the demons, that is plan.
Because a devotee cannot tolerate blaspheming another devotee or God. So as soon as he said that "Why shall I go to Jagannātha Purī to see the wooden Jagannātha? I am personally Viṣṇu," Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura immediately ordered his constables, "Arrest him. Arrest this rascal." So he was arrested. And when he was arrested... He had some yogic mystic power. All the constables, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and his family members became affected with high fever, 105 degrees fever. So when he came back, his wife became very much disturbed that "You arrested Viṣṇu, and we are all going to die. We have got now high fever." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura replied, "Yes, let us all die, but this rascal must be punished." This is the view of pure devotee.
You have seen they are chanting and dancing. We send street saṅkīrtana even the most busiest quarter of New York, Fifth Avenue. And they go. The American boys, they are very daring. Sometimes police arrest them. And police is not harassing. The public and police, both, they are now sympathetic, that "Here is a movement which is actually genuine and very beneficial to our people." They are sympathetic. And even some of the Christian priests, they are also very sympathetic.
Just like if there is a murder case and there is a conspiracy, so it is not the man who has directly killed some person, he is arrested, but everyone who is in the conspiracy, they are all arrested. That is the common law. So in that sense everyone is butcher. Besides that, because a person is killing some cow or some animal, we are calling butcher, but mostly they are killing their soul.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Kīrtanānanda: And they don't want to hear.
Prabhupāda: No. Caraṇe sarve varṇe kaye (?). A thief, if you speak to him, "My dear Mr. Thief, it is not very good work. You will be arrested. You will be punished. Why you are taking this risk?" so will he give up stealing? He knows himself, "Yes, I will be arrested and punished, but still I shall do." This is ignorance.
Kīrtanānanda: How was the Chicago festival?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Chicago is nice city. It is river?
Ravindra-svarūpa: This is called the Schuylkill River, Schuylkill.
Prabhupāda: It is a river?
Initiation Lectures
Just like a man steals. He knows that stealing is not good, but he wants to satisfy some sense; therefore he is committing stealing also. Therefore he is mad. He knows that "If I am arrested for this stealing or committing this offense, I'll be punished. I may be hanged or..." There are so many things. But still, because he is mad after some sense gratification, he commits such sinful activities.
I'll not do this." Then you are excused, there is a... "That's all right." But if you are excused and again come back and again do the same sinful activities, criminal activities, and if you are again arrested, then you'll be very, very severely punished. It is a common sense. How people think that "Because I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or I take the holy name of God or I go to church, therefore I can commit so much sins, never mind. It will be counteracted next week or next moment when I shall chant."
General Lectures
Suffering you cannot end in that way. Just the same example, that if you get out of the prison some way or other, that does not stop your suffering. As soon as you are arrested, you are put again. The law of nature is not so insignificant that simply by suiciding, you'll stop suffering. No. You have to accept again body and have to suffer.
And when that also fails, then force. That is the whole arrangement everywhere. The instruction is that you should not kill. But if you violate, then according to law you are arrested. If you still violate, then you are punished in so many ways by force. As this is going on in our ordinary life, the same thing is going on by God's will also. The kingdom of God... Here is also kingdom of God, and there is another, spiritual sky. That is also kingdom of God.
If you resign, then I shall be in great danger. I cannot accept your resignation." Then he said, "Your majesty, I am sorry. I cannot proceed any more. I shall retire from the service." Then Nawab said that "Then I shall punish you. I shall immediately arrest you. I cannot let you go." The answer of Sanātana Gosvāmī was that "You are king, representative of Nārāyaṇa, so whatever punishment you give, I shall accept." So that was the Hindu culture, that in spite of being punished by the king, he accepts the king as the representative of Nārāyaṇa.
The dogs can go from left to right; he has no punishment. But if you go from left to right, violating the rules or violating the color, symbol, signal, then you will be immediately arrested because you are human being. So all the laws or injunctions are for human being. So human being, human life, is very responsible life.
Just like here also, if we say, "I don't care for the government." Then what will be? So treason act. I'll be arrested, I'll be punished. Similarly, living entities are originally part and parcel of God. Just like father and son. The Christian people also understand, God is Supreme Father and we are all His sons.
And he made a plan how to usurp the empire. He killed his elder brother and other brothers. He arrested his father, Shah Jahan. So this is the book subject matter, Shah Jahan.
Just like a thief. He knows that for his criminal activities he'll be punished. He has seen it, that a thief is arrested and he's taken to the prison house. And he has heard from the śāstra and from lawbooks that committing theft is not good.
Nobody will care for that. Nobody will care for that. Just like on the street we have got the law, "Keep to the left." So if you say, "Why not go to the right?" you will be immediately arrested. You are criminal, because it is law by the state.
If you are not a criminal, then police has nothing to do with you. Police may be there. But if you are a criminal, then police will arrest you. Similarly, māyā is acting as police force of Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as you become criminal, forget Kṛṣṇa as your master, then the police, māyā, will capture you.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: So that he can go on talking whatever he likes. (laughter) All nonsense. All he wants that license: you can go on talking all nonsense, I can go on talking all nonsense. You are right, I am right, everything is all right. Yata mata tata patha. Yata mata—as many opinions there are, so many (indistinct) are there also. So it does not apply in legal sense. Just like the same example that I give always, "Keep to the right." Then if somebody says, "My opinion is, 'Keep to the left,' " but as soon as he does it, he is arrested.
Hayagrīva: So that's all, on Darwin. (break) This is an appendix to the Darwin. In 1925 the Tennessee legislature passed the Butler Act, forbidding the teaching of Darwinism, Darwinian evolution, in the public schools of that state. In May, John Thomas Scopes, a science teacher at Dayton High School, consented to be the defendant in a court test of the law. He was arrested and indicted by a Grand Jury and stood trial on July 1925.
Prabhupāda: Why he was arrested?
Hayagrīva: For teaching Darwinism. For teaching that man descended from the apes.
Prabhupāda: So he was teaching, and the government arrested him?
Hayagrīva: The government, the American government, arrested, yes. The Tennessee legislature arrested him. He was arrested and defended by Clarence Darrow, famous trial lawyer, and the prosecutor was William Jennings Bryan, who was a thrice defeated Presidential candidate. So they discussed evolution and religion and how they could co-exist, and Scopes, who was teaching Darwinian evolution, claimed, "All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship almighty God according to the dictates of his own conscience. No human authority can in any case whatever control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and that no preference should ever be given by law to any religious establishment or mode of worship."
Prabhupāda: No some signboard, you cannot drink even, sitting on their bench. I have seen in New York so many places. So alcohol is very nice happiness, but there is prevention. In your country, the prevention is not so strong. In our country it is very... If one is caught in drunken state, immediately he is taken to the police. Immediately. He is punished. You cannot come on the road in a drunken state. No. You are found in drunken state on the road, you are liable to be arrested. You do everything in your home. Well, in most cities drinking is private.
Prabhupāda: He knows the prohibitive order even in śāstra, that if a man is a thief he will suffer this kind of hellish condition. So he has heard it from the lawyer and from the śāstra that stealing is not good and he has seen it that a thief is arrested and is punished but still he does it. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious person will not do it. That is the difference. So by law or by pressure you cannot make anyone moral. That's not possible. He has to be given something which is better than morality, then he will stop committing all kinds of sins.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That you can measure by knowledge. Just like Bhagavad-gītā has said, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā (BG 14.18). Just like a man has committed murder, killed somebody. He is arrested, he is taken away from your sight, but you can know that he has committed murder, he will be hanged. That's all. You do not require to go there and see that he is hanged. It doesn't require. That is foolishness. If somebody says that "I did not see that the man was arrested," that's all right, but "I did not see that he was hanged. I cannot believe it," no. You believe or not believe, it is a fact.
Prabhupāda: No. The same example, just like a man has committed murder and he is arrested and taken away. So others, they know that this man will be hanged. And one was, "Oh, I have not seen, so how he is hanged?" But that is foolishness. The state law says that if a man has committed murder he will be hanged. So you have to see through the law, not with your eyes. The nonsense eyes, what can they see? So see through knowledge, through books.
Prabhupāda: One smuggler came to me and said that "You give me your license, you take one thousand rupees. I will manage." So I told him that when I would be arrested, because after I would be arrested, then the government would ask me that "We have given you the license as a respectable gentleman, and you are doing this," then what shall I reply? So this restriction is that liquor... Wine is made from rectified spirits, brandy, whiskey, everything; I know all the formulas, how to make them.
Prabhupāda: So why (indistinct)? Restriction. Because unless the government takes this matter in their hands, people will distill... It is not very difficult. There are many illicit distillers also. That's why it is the duty of the excise department to arrest them. My point is that why is the government increasing the price? So that restricting, that people may not pay so much price, they may not drink (indistinct). When the government opens a liquor shop, it does not mean that all of you become drunkards.
Prabhupāda: Alexander. Alexander and the robber. There is a story that a robber was arrested by Alexander and there was talk between Alexander and the robber: "You proved that you are big robber, that's all. Why you are going to punish me?" And he was released: "Yes. I'm a big robber. I have no difference between you and me."
Prabhupāda: It's quite clear. Just like if you make a decision to do something criminal, the plan is already there—you will be arrested and punished. If you make a choice that "I must do it. This is my decision. I must kill that person," you can do that, but there is already a plan that you will be hanged. That is less intelligent. They are not intelligent.
Prabhupāda: Something to do. I have to do something. He is cutting a book into pieces.
Śyāmasundara: Jean-Paul Genet was one of his heroes—a sadist, a homosexual, a criminal. He thought very highly of him, because he said at least he has chosen something he is doing very courageously. So he got him released from jail. Now he has chosen to become a Communist, Sartre. So... (break) He is very much trouble with the government. They want to arrest him, but he is too famous. His life is (indistinct).
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the actual cause of shame?
Prabhupāda: Higher consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: If I am ashamed to take my clothes off in public, why is that?
Prabhupāda: Higher consciousness. The dog has no such thing; therefore this consciousness is not developed.
Prabhupāda: They would be punished, but they don't care for punishment. Just like it says in the lawbook that if you steal, you'll be arrested, but they don't care for your lawbook, the thief. What can you do? That independence is already there. The lawbook says that if you commit theft you will be punished, and he is actually punished. But if he doesn't care for punishment, then what can you do? Punishment is already there.
Prabhupāda: This is the (indistinct), that the thief has learned from the lawbooks, from the religious books, that stealing is bad. If one steals he'll be punished. Because in the human society the scriptures that they have got. No scripture will say that you should steal, for example, neither the lawbook will say that you steal. So if you have heard from scriptures and from lawbooks that stealing is criminal, and by committing this sinful activity I shall be punished, and if you have seen also that anyone who has violated this law and stolen others' property has been arrested and policeman has taken him to the jail, he has seen, he has heard, he has completely experienced, but still, why does he steal? What is the answer?
Prabhupāda: So that means he wants to listen somebody's dictation. That is, as soon as you say "listen," then somebody is speaking, you listen. So that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). God is situated in everyone's heart, and He is dictating. Even He is dictating to the thief that "You are going to steal. It is not good. If you are arrested you will be punished." That dictation is there, but he disobeys the dictation and he steals, commits sin. That is sin. So the dictator is there, we admit that. Kṛṣṇa, or God, is there within the heart, and He is giving dictation, but you disobey. But if we accept that dictation, then you become devotee.
Hayagrīva: He believes that the cosmic order awards and punishes everyone according to merit, according to one's merit. So this is a form of belief in karma also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are discussing Ajāmila's, this Ajāmila is going to be punished. The Yamarāja is there, the officer is there. He has sent his men to arrest. So just like it is the father's duty if the son goes astray, in wrong way, the father is always affectionate. He tries to bring him back again home by, either by punishing or some way or some means.
| Page Title: | Arrest (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, JayaNitaiGaura |
| Created: | 10 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=161, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 161 |