Prabhupāda: The sixth scene is Lord Caitanya, a naughty boy. He would go to the Ganges side and it is the system of orthodox brāhmaṇas that they meditate in the Ganges, half. That is the system. Now He will go and swim over the water and throw water in their mouth in this way. Naughty boy. And they will be very much disgusted. "You naughty boy! You come here!" "Stop your meditation. What is this meditation? Chant! Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa!" He'll say like that. So they will come and complain to His father. "Your child has become too much naughty and just see that..., teased us like this." The father will say, "Oh, the boy is going to be very naughty. I'll punish Him. Let Him come." So father, angry father was waiting. As soon as the boy will come he would punish. But when the boy returns the father sees that He's just coming from school. There is no sign that He has gone to Ganges and taken bath. How is that these gentlemen complained? He will be puzzled. In that way, we have to show.
Angry (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Haridāsa, Śrīnivāsa, and Advaita. They were taking part. Otherwise, all, they were young friends, yes. Young boys. No girls. That is not the system in India. (laughs) Yes. Now when the second scene, mainly their movement was going on and it was becoming popular. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that simply by the saṅkīrtana movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything. So the priest class brāhmaṇas they became very much dissatisfied that "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others..." Because according to Hindu society, except the brāhmaṇas... Especially in those days, only the brāhmaṇas were considered the highest in the society, and even the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they all calculated to, in the group of śūdras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone, the Muhammadans, the śūdras, the low class, the high class, the brāhmaṇas... He was amalgamating everyone. So these brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "He is making a disastrous movement! The prestige of the brāhmaṇas will go." So they became very much dissatisfied and they concluded that "We shall go to the magistrate and file our complaint that He is doing against Hindu religion and He's crying always 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa' loudly. The Lord is sleeping. He will be disturbed and there will be disaster, Lord being angry." In this way they filed complaint. Ask anything, questions.
Prabhupāda: Several thousand. And they were loudly chanting and meeting Lord... So when the chanting was going on the Chand Kazi appeared and there was discussion between... Chand Kazi was also very great scholar, and Lord Caitanya was also scholar. So Chand Kazi, just to pacify them, he addressed Caitanya, "My dear boy, You happen to be my nephew. You are my sister's son. Why You are so angry upon Your maternal uncle?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu got the clue that he was prepared to make compromise. So He also mildly replied, "Yes, you are My uncle, I know. So because you are My uncle, therefore I have come to your house. How is that when the nephew comes that you do not receive Him? In an angry mood you go upstairs?" So in this way, the situation was pacified. Then they sat together and there was a very learned discussion between the two. Because Hindus are always against cow killing. So he was Muhammadan. They were killing cow.
Hayagrīva: He's 24 now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Renunciation. So one day it so happened that instead of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya was chanting, "Gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī," instead of chanting "Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa." So He had a small school. The brāhmaṇas, generally they keep a small school which is called catuṣpaṭhī. (spells out) C-c-h-a-a-t-u-s-p-a-t-h-i. Catuṣpaṭhī, catuṣpaṭhī means a school where up to the four Vedas are taught. Grammar and religion and everything is taught there. In every village that was system. The brāhmaṇas should keep up a school like that. Students were all almost they were also of the same age. Some of them were fifteen years old, sixteen years old. So students came and saw Lord Caitanya was chanting "Gopī gopī," so they objected. They said, "Oh, why You are chanting 'gopī gopī'? Why should You not chant 'Kṛṣṇa'? 'Hare Kṛṣṇa'?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in His ecstasy because He was... In the beginning, His appearance is in the form of gopī, to love Kṛṣṇa. So He became very much angry, and because they were students, He wanted to chastise them.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Seaweeds, yes. So they... All over the body there was some seaweeds. Not exactly... He was very unclean and odd-looking, and beard and ugly. So he thought that "He's a great yogi. If I refuse, 'No, I'm not going to hand over my daughter to you,' then he may be angry and create some catastrophe." So he said, just to avoid him, that "I have got eight daughters, and it is the desire of my daughters that they should be given over to one husband." No, that "they should be married all at once. So unless I find other husbands for my daughters you have to wait." So immediately, "Yes, I shall myself become eight then." And he expanded himself, eight expansions.
Prabhupāda: This is the age for injecting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If children are taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness from this age, the face of the world will be different. (break) ...but they are not Hindus. They have got also obstinacy like that. (break) It is very important. "I thought in that way. When my mother died, as the devotees of the Lord think, I also thought in that way. What is that? 'Oh, it is a grace of the Lord. My mother is now dead.' Because she is the, I mean to say, real cause of my nonfreedom. So she is now dead. Then I am free." It is very contradiction from the materialistic point of view. It is said that, bhaktanam śam abhīpsataḥ. "As the devotees think, so I also in that way thought." What is that? Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ. "I thought it a special grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ pratiṣṭhāṁ disam uttaram: "And I at once took leave of my so-called home and went away." So that is the difference between the devotees of the Lord and materialistic persons. When their materialistic relationship, comforts, are taken away, they think "Oh, it is all grace." And the materialistic person, when their materialistic comforts are increased, they think, "It is grace." Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasmin jāgrati saṁ... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like... There is a crude example. I think I have cited this example many times, that a foolish patient thinks that increase of fever is very nice. Fever, so what should be the ideal? Fever should decrease. But those who are less intelligent, they think, "Yes, it must increase." (chuckles) There is a drama in Bengali that in a house a doctor came to diagnose. There were two patients, the housewife and the maidservant. So doctor said, "The maidservant's fever is 105, so there is some anxiety. I give some medicine. And the, that landlady, she has no fever practically, 99, so there is no anxiety." But the landlady became angry, that "This doctor is useless.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Śaṁbhu is another name of Lord Śiva, Śaṁbhu. Svayaṁbhur nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ (SB 6.3.20). He is called Svayaṁbhuḥ, and Śiva is called Śaṁbhu. Vaiṣṇavānām yathā śaṁbhuḥ. Svayaṁbhur nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kumārāḥ kapilo manuḥ (SB 6.3.20). Kumārāḥ. There is a sampradāya from Kumāra, four Kumāras, brahmacārīs. They were sons of Brahmā. When they were born, Lord Brahmā said that "You now make, marry and produce. We want population." In the creation, in the beginning. So they refused. "Oh, we are not going to marry. We shall remain brahmacārī, devotee." Then Lord Brahmā was angry. "Oh, you are refusing your father's order?" So from when he was angry, his eyes became red. From that, Śiva was born. Therefore his name is Rudra. Rudra means anger. So when Lord Śiva becomes angry, the whole thing is finished.
Prabhupāda: You can make scene that people, His disciples, are performing kīrtana and one scene you can make Kazi, Muslim magistrate, is sitting, and the brāhmaṇas, they come. "Sir, you are our protector. You are Kazi. You are magistrate. And this Nimāi Paṇḍita, young boy, He is creating so much disturbance." "What is that?" "He has begun this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is not our Hindu religion. He is chanting so loudly. Now this is the time God is sleeping. So He'll be disturbed. So the whole society will be vanquished if God becomes angry. So He'll be disturbed." So Kazi... After all, Hindus are complaining. So Kazi said, "All right, I am taking steps."
Prabhupāda: Another incident during Purī... Rāmānanda Rāya, he was a great devotee. So his younger brother, he was engaged in government service, Mahārāja Pratāparudra's service. But he was a karmi and a rich man. So he misappropriated some money for sense gratification from the treasury. So this was... And he had some, what is called, competition, or rivalry, between the king's son and himself. The king's son did not like him, so he was trying to put him in some difficulty. This man... His name is... He's Rāmānanda Rāya's brother. His name is there. I can find out. So he found out some fault with him and informed his father that "Your such and such person has doing like this. He has misappropriated the money. I paid him so much money for purchasing horse, and he has purchased horse less price. He was charged so much." "Oh," the king said, "Oh, how is that? He cannot do that. Realize that money." So he got some clue. So he said that "You must pay. This is not the right price. The state cannot accept at high price this kind of horses." So he said, "All right. I shall sell somewhere and repay the price." Then there was some argument. He said, "Why you have charged so much for this horse? This is not a very good horse." He said, "Yes, it is good horse. My horse does not look like this." That man, that king's son was looking like this. So he criticized him, so he became more angry. Because you know, everyone, that a horse who looks down like this, that is bad(?) horse. Or looking like this, he's not first-class horse. Do you know that? (laughter) Horse, like this, kat, kat, kat, kat, that is first-class horse. And if horse goes like this, that is not good horse. So he criticized him, and he became angry, and he complained to his father that he's not paying.
Prabhupāda: There is a version by Rāmānujācārya. Rāmānujācārya, he was a great ācārya of this Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. His spiritual master gave him mantra: "My dear boy, you chant this mantra silently. Nobody can hear. It is very..." So then he asked, "What is the effect of this mantra?" He said, "By chanting this mantra, by meditation, you'll get liberation." So he immediately went out and in a public, big meeting he said that "You chant this mantra. You'll be all liberated." (laughter) So he came back to his spiritual master, and his spiritual master was very angry that "I told you that you should chant silently." He said, "Yes, I have committed offense. So whatever punishment you like, you can give me. But because you told me that this mantra will liberate, I have given it publicly. Let everyone hear and be liberated. Let me go to hell. I don't mind. I have disobeyed your order. Let me go to hell. I am prepared. But by this chanting mantra, if anyone is liberated, let it be publicly distributed." His spiritual master embraced him: "You are greater than me." You see? So if a mantra has so power, why it should be secret? It should be distributed. People are suffering. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Anyone who will hear... Even the birds and beasts will hear and they will be liberated." That's all.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Sister Mary: It goes deeper and deeper?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything we hear, it goes to the heart. If I call you by name, it does not go to my heart? "You rascal. You stupid." You hear. Does it not go to my heart? Why I become angry unless it goes to my heart. If "rascal," "stupid," and all these bad names go to my heart, why God's name will not go to my heart? If by calling you by ill names you become angry, that means it goes to your heart. Why not good name? It goes. It enters through the ear and goes to the heart.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So we are taking the risk to offend people because they'll think we are fools. If I say, "Birla, Mr. Birla, you are not proprietor, Kṛṣṇa is proprietor. So whatever money you have got spend for Kṛṣṇa," he'll be angry. Mūrkha upadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you instruct a rascal, he'll be angry. Therefore we go as beggar. "My dear Mr. Birla, you are very rich man. I am sannyāsī beggar. So I want to construct a temple if you spare some money." So he'll be, "Oh, here is a beggar, give him some money." (laughter) But if I say "Mr. Birla, you have got millions of dollars at your disposal. That is Kṛṣṇa's money. Give it to me. I am Kṛṣṇa's servant." Oh, he will... (laughter) He'll not be very satisfied. Rather, if I go as a beggar, he would give something, and if I tell him the truth, he'll not give me a farthing. Therefore we take this beggar's dress. We are not beggar. We cheat him as beggar. We are not beggar. We are Kṛṣṇa's servant, we are not beggar. We don't want anything from anyone. Because we know Kṛṣṇa will provide everything.
Śyāmasundara: It's salt and pepper.
Prabhupāda: No, no. One has to learn how Kṛṣṇa is always God in any circumstance. And if he can understand this philosophy, then Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā he becomes immediately liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ ye jānāti tattvataḥ. "My activities, My birth, they are all transcendental. One who understands in truth," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), "after leaving this body, he no more comes to this material." That means we can be liberated simply by understanding His activities. All the qualities are described in the Nectar of Devotion. He has got sixty-four qualities. Unlimited qualities, but for our understanding, Rūpa Gosvāmī only discussed sixty-four. Just see, that lady was speaking that she speaks to thousands and thousands of people. How ignorant she is about God. She was inquiring, "Kṛṣṇa is not..." That means she cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. And she is leader, thousands of people she is speaking. What is the use of her speaking if she has no clear idea? This is going on. Useless speaking. In India also, so many fools, they are accepted as very perfect. Just like Gandhi, take Gandhi. Where was Gandhi? In spiritual consciousness, he is nothing. Nothing, no value. But if we say in the public, they will be angry, "Oh!" But actually there is no value, no spiritual value. He is known all over the world as a great spiritualist. He was a moralist, that's all. That is not a qualification for understanding God.
Prabhupāda: Why shall I speak of others? Then people will be angry. Better not to touch this point. (break) At least, my position in foreign countries is far better than any swami's, up to date. Vivekananda went there in America about eighty years ago, 1893. So Ramakrishna Mission has got about four or five centers, say, within ten in America. But I have got my centers in America and Europe, forty centers, and so many students. In Ramakrishna Mission you won't find so many American boys as followers, but we have got thousands of followers, all young men, young girls. So that is my hope, that even if I die—I am seventy-six now—these boys will conduct this movement. I am sure.
Yadurāṇī: ... do it effectively. And, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Muralīdhara just asked you that when Lord Brahmā, when he became angry at the four Kumāras he created Lord Śiva from between his eyebrows. So he is always situated on his lotus, but at that time should we paint him on his planet?
Prabhupāda: His planet is just like lotus flower.
Yadurāṇī: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa planet is also like lotus.
Yadurāṇī: Jaya, so, so it has...
Prabhupāda: Just like here in this material world the Brahmā's planet is the ultimate. That is also like mat..., lotus flower, and in the spiritual world the ultimate planet is Kṛṣṇa-loka.
Sumati Morarjee: Rādhā getting angry with Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So there are other ones also.
Sumati Morarjee: Hum?
Prabhupāda: Other girls?
Sumati Morarjee: No, she was alone, but the offices, we wanted to see. So I said all right, we had tape, so she does dance on that, and the other one is (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Acchā.
Sumati Morarjee: Two things she did. So I remembered so much.
Prabhupāda: Just see how this girl is being trained. So similarly you are teaching our students, small children, we have ordinary school at Dallas, to, because these boys and girls they're having children, they're being trained up. We are creating a new generation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Comparative religion, from our point of view, that there cannot be many religions, cannot be many religions. Religion means... We define religion as the law given by God. So we understand from Bhagavad-gītā that God says, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: "Always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your obeisances unto Me." So any religion that has no conception of God, how he can think of God? If I think of something, that something must be known to me; otherwise how can I think of it? If I imagine something, that is not wanted. My imagination of God... God is not a thing to be imagined by me. He is a concrete thing. Therefore according to our philosophy, any so-called religion which has no conception of God, that is not religion. That is simply mental speculation. We accept that religion means the law given by God. But if you do not know what is God, what is His law, then where is religion? Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that all types of pseudo religion is rejected. You can ask any religious man, "What is your conception of God?" he cannot give any clear conception. So far we are concerned, we can immediately give conception of God—His name, His address, everything. That is the difference. Strictly speaking, we do not accept any system of religion as bona fide. They are all rejected. That is not religion. They do not know what is God. What is that religion? Strictly speaking, that is not religion. But if we speak publicly, they will be angry.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Chouri. (laughing) So I told him that "You are a demon." But he was not angry. He admitted. And all his argument was refuted. Perhaps you remember.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in fact, he was telling that "Kṛṣṇa didn't give me all the procedures, steps, how to do the experiment." He was saying like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why shall I give you? You are a rascal, you are against Kṛṣṇa, why Kṛṣṇa will give you facility? If you are against Kṛṣṇa and you want the credit without Kṛṣṇa, that's not possible. You must be submissive first of all. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities. Just like we dare to face any chemist, any scientist, any philosopher. Why? On the strength of Kṛṣṇa, we believe that "There is Kṛṣṇa. When I shall talk with him, Kṛṣṇa will give give me intelligence." This is the basics. Otherwise, from qualification, standard, they are very much qualified. We are common laymen before them. But how do we challenge them? Because we know. Just like a small child He can challenge a very big man because he knows, "My father is there." He is catching the hand of the father, and he's sure that "Nobody can do anything to me."
Prabhupāda: Now, as servant of God, I may have many activities. But my identity is that I am eternal servant of God. This is our identity. So if I love myself, because I am eternal servant of God, therefore, if I actually I love myself, I must always engage myself in the service of the Lord. This is love.
Father Tanner: But there must, in your self, there must be times when you're angry, times when you're...
Prabhupāda: I can become angry for God.
Father Tanner: Times when you're proud, times when you're humble.
Prabhupāda: For God's sake... Suppose you are serving some master. For the master's satisfaction, you sometimes become angry.
Father Tanner: Hm, but I think what Susan was saying is that our personality...
Prabhupāda: No, no. I'm... First of all, if you keep your identity fixed-up, even if you become angry, it is not bad.
Father Tanner: No. But you can become it... what, you know, we are saying is...
Prabhupāda: Suppose just like I tell you that a dog is your servant. It is standing on the door. Some thief is coming. If the dog becomes angry, "Baw! Gaw! Gow!" so that, to become angry is not bad for the dog...
Father Tanner: No.
Prabhupāda: ...because he's serving the master. So similarly, if you are fixed-up in your business as servant of the Lord, so even if you become angry for Lord's service, that is not bad.
Prabhupāda:
- yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-karaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
Go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, and kharaḥ means ass. Those who are living life, the bodily concept of life, they're simply go-kharaḥ, just like cows and asses. So, at the present moment, it is a civilization of go-kharaḥ. They may be proud, advanced, civilized man, but the śāstra says that "You are all asses and cows." And we speak on the basis of śāstra. Don't be angry upon... We see all the cows and asses.
Prabhupāda: Then... (break) ...We have not very many followers because we disagree with all rascals. We are not rascal. (break) Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na sāntāya (?). Mūrkha upadeśa... (Hindi) If you give some lessons to the rascal, he becomes angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you ask a serpent, "Sir, you don't bite anyone, you take your here, milk, (indistinct)," the result will be he'll increase his venomous poison, and one day—"Phansss." (Sound imitating biting) You know the story? The kuta..., (?) the wood-cutter and the snake. He found a snake... Snake, if it is not killed, then if you simply beat and becomes dead, again he revives life.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Such rascals, they are leaders. How much imperfect that institution is. But if you say, then they will be angry.
Acyutānanda: Yes, one girl, she is Hindu, but she is studying in a convent. And they were catching butterflies in the garden. So the head sister said, "No, don't harm them because they are God's creatures." So she said, "Well, why do you eat meat?" So the sister left, but she failed her. She failed her in her classes. She gave her a failing grade, because she spoke back to her.
Kīrtanānanda: It means they have no philosophy.
Prabhupāda: No philosophy. No authority, no philosophy.
Prabhupāda: In our society he has come from America, he has come from Canada, I am from India, but we have forgotten all our family relations, we have nothing to do. We are in a different atmosphere. They can die for me, I can die for them, but we have no family relationship. He coming from America, I'm from India, he's from Canada, but the central point is Kṛṣṇa. You see? That is devotee. Tādera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vās, bhakta-sane vās. Therefore we have made this society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious let us live together. We are also living together in a house—we are eating, we are sleeping, doing this, but everything in a society of devotees. Just like if you want to do some business if you become a member of the association, stock selling exchange, you can do better business.
Guest: (laughs) But not all the time.
Prabhupāda: No, no I say.... Not all the time because it is material, this is material. They cannot do all the time because this is temporary. You can work as a stock exchange broker for a few hours then it will be havoc(?). But it is not like that. If you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra 24 hours, you'll never be worried. You'll never be tired. That is the difference between material and spiritual activities. Just like these boys they are working day and night (indistinct). I do not pay them. They are all qualified. Suppose if one wanted to keep a servant like him, how much he will have to pay? They are doing for nothing. Rather if I become angry they become afraid. (laughs)
Bali Mardana: We have to be led by someone who can see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, if you led by another blind man, what is your benefit? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). And our thankless task is... Just like a blind man going, falling into the ditch, we say, "No, no. Don't go there. You'll fall down." But he becomes angry, "Why you are instructing me?" That is our thankless task. We have to do it. How we can see that this blind man is going...? He'll immediately fall and die. How we can remain silent? We must have to say. That is our business, that "For want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are going to die. Take it. Be saved." But they do not like it.
Dr. Wolfe: But that is just what they do not want to accept.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. They do not take good advice. That is foolishness. Foolishness means mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakipaya na śāntaye (?). Mūrkha, a rascal, if you give him good advice, he'll be angry. Just like a serpent, if you bring the serpent and if you tell the serpent, "My dear friend serpent, you live with me. I shall give you daily nice food, milk and banana. You'll be very pleased." So the result will be that his poison will increase. One day he'll say, "Phaḥ! Phaḥ!" (laughter) So these rascals are like that.
Prabhupāda: So, these are all no argument. No sane man will accept this argu...
Karandhara: Most western people are so frustrated, they accept these philosophies wholeheartedly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is frustration. That is not real life. That is another thing.
Karandhara: But like you say in Bhagavad-gītā, they are so angry with all types of speculation that they become frustrated and disgusted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Frustration is not life. Frustration is frustration, disappointment. That is not life.
Karandhara: They say that frustration is the only reality.
Prabhupāda: No. That's for you.
Karandhara: Absurd, the absurd philosophy.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That means they do not know the value of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it. That means rascaldom. That means rascaldom.
Karandhara: But if this energy was never created, then what is the need for a creator?
Prabhupāda: No. We admit the energy is not created. But energy comes from the energetic. Energy. Just like you may become angry. So that anger energy is there in you, but it is not manifested. So there are certain energies which sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. So this energy, material energy, is of God. This energy is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But there is another energy which is eternal. That is spiritual world. That is our... This is scientific study.
Prabhupāda: Devotees must pray that "This great demon Hiraṇyakaśipu may be killed by You, my Lord." Therefore He comes. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja passively... (break) ...father was being killed. He could have stopped it, but he did not. He did not. If Prahlāda Mahārāja would have requested, immediately it would have been stopped, but he did not. He said, rather, in his prayer, that "Nobody is sorry when a serpent or a scorpion is killed." He said like that. So he said, "My father was just like a serpent and scorpion. Now he is killed. So now You become pacified. No more need of becoming angry." Modeta sādhur api. Actually, I have seen. There was a snake in our Māyāpur temple. So Guru Mahārāja was standing on the..., while some devotees were waiting. "Yes, kill it." So at that time I could not understand that "Such a saintly person why he is ordering to kill a snake?" Then when I found in Bhāgavata, modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā: (SB 7.9.14) "A saintly person also becomes engladdened when a snake is killed." Because it is very harmful. He said that "He will do so many harmful activities. Better kill him." Because his business is to create harm. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That means it doesn't matter... If I beat you with shoes, it doesn't matter? Why do you become angry?
Karandhara: Well, it doesn't matter that I become angry.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) So let me beat you. You don't become angry or become angry, I don't care.
Karandhara: Well, they say, "That's going on anyway."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then there is no question of philosophy. Finish. Everything one. That... This philosophy was discussed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His mother. He was eating dirt, and mother gave Him sandeśa. So He did not care to take sandeśa. He was eating dirt. Then mother came, "My dear boy, why you are eating dirt? Here is sandeśa. I have given you." "Mother, what is the difference between sandeśa and dirt? They are all the same. (laughing) They are all the same." "Yes, my dear boy, You are impersonalist philosopher. But it is required. Just like the water jug is also earth, made of earth. It is earth. And this ground is also earth. But when you have to keep water you require this water jug, not this earth." That is relativity. If you have to take work, then you cannot say, "Well, this is also earth, this is also... Why...? The pot is not required. Put water here." Then you will suffer, no water. So this kind of philosophy was discussed when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a child. (break) ...and the tree is the same thing. But when I walk, I require the stick, not this tree. (break) ...The dogs must be on lash (leash). If somebody does not do that, he is criminal. So if he pleads in the court, "There is no difference, dogs on the lash or without lash. Why you are punishing me?" But will that be accepted?
Prabhupāda: Well, in politics, unless there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose. So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that—and that is a fact—that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory. I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47, the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the political power. He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he though that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (laughing) They are good disciples. They are bringing everything. I am simply ordering. Still, I think, "That was better, to depend on..."
Dr. Patel: What is Māyāvāda, Māyāvāda? This, we do not understand anything. māyā is a fact because it is the power of God, and you have got to work with it. So we are all of us are vādīs. Don't talk all these thing now Swamiji, I am going to fire him.
Prabhupāda: No, why you have become angry?
Dr. Patel: No, I don't become angry, I become violent, not angry.
Mr. Sar: Māyāvādī's name is speaker.
Prabhupāda: That means he is Māyāvādī.
Dr. Patel: Māyā is a fact of life.
Prabhupāda: He is becoming angry; that means he is Māyāvāda.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, they are little animals with four hand, two legs, two hand, hand animals. That's all. Yes. Rejected them. Vedic civilization rejected them, mlecchas and yavanas. But they can be reformed. The process is the same. Not that because they are rejected, they cannot be reclaimed. They can be reclaimed also. Just like you are being done. Although you are coming from the mlecchas and yavanas, by training, you are becoming more than a brāhmaṇa. So there is no bar for them. Unfortunately, these rascals do not agree to accept. As soon as you say, "No more illicit sex," oh, they become angry. As soon as I say, "There is no meat-eating," they become angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). The rascals, fools, if you give them good lessons, education, they will be angry. Prakopayati na śamayati. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānām (?). The snake, if you give him nice milk and banana, the result will be he will increase his poison. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grace, they are being now trained up. Now you be trained up and revise the whole edition of the western civilization, especially in America. Then a new chapter will come in. This is the program. Therefore varṇāśrama school required.
Prabhupāda: So that, that is natural. If you give good instruction to a rascal, he'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Mūrkha, a rascal, if you give him good instruction... But give him practical. "Come here. Sit down. Take prasādam. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And help me by doing this." In this way you have to... Just like a child. Child does not want to go to school, but some, by... Find out some means so that he'll be induced. That is intelligence. He'll be angry, naturally. He's a rascal. He'll be angry. That is not unnatural. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Just like a snake. You feed the snake with milk. It will increase the poison. That's all. Practically attract. Practically attract. That is the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will practically attract the people. If the world affairs are adjusted according to our Kṛṣṇa conscious plan, there will be no difficulty for all the nations, all the countries. They will be happy. So we have to educate people gradually. And by our example, living example, we'll have to attract.
Prabhupāda: That brain will require three hundred years. Your brain having developed, then you will understand.
Dr. Patel: I have developed, brain is already developed fifty... (break)
Prabhupāda: (angrily) No, you said immediately What is the use of offering Nārāyaṇa in the temple..."
Dr. Patel: I did not say that!
Prabhupāda: Yes, you said.
Dr. Patel: I did... No, you have misunderstood! I said... I won't submit to wrong things. I will submit to right thing!
Prabhupāda: No, no. And that... But you do not know what is right thing. That is your fault.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) No, you are younger brother. Sons are on the same level. So I have got the right to say sometimes "Rascal, fool." Don't be angry.
Dr. Patel: And we accept it also. We know that within yourself you take us to be something different.
Prabhupāda: That is out of love. (break) He thinks he's government. Because "Unless he's satisfied, if I do any mistake, immediately he'll arrest me." So he thinks "This constable is government." That's all. He does not know behind the constable, there is head constable, there is... (break) He sees directly, "The constable harasses me. So, 'Sir. Namaskara.' " Just like in the village, there are so many (break) done. Somebody is killing the hens. We have got here? Before some deity? So there are so many deities.
Prabhupāda: Ah. "And those who have no faith in bhakti-yoga, they do not get me. They simply labor." That's all. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). They are wasting time. That's all. As soon as we say, the time wasters, they become angry, "Oh, why you are saying? Don't criticize others." But if we say... (Hindi:) Satya bole ta mare latha (laughter) suta jagalda.(?) If you bluff, "Oh, you are doing very nice, you are doing very nice," oh, he will be very pleased. And if I say that "You rascal, you are doing all, simply wasting your time," he will not be... Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya.
Prabhupāda: ...another example. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. It is said that this living entity is untouched by this material body. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. So the example is given that the moon reflected on water appears to be moving, but moon is separate from that movement. (Hindi) Go on. (Hindi) (break) ...good example. Unnecessarily he thinks that "I belong to this country, I belong to this society." That means he creates another body. And if he knows perfectly well that "I do not belong to any of these bodies," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That teaching required, that every being is unattached to this body. Therefore yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape... Anyone who is maintaining himself under bodily concept of life, he is no better than the animals. (break) The demonic person does not accept any good lesson. Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. Because he is foolish, if you give him good advice, he will be angry. Still, we have to do that.
Prabhupāda: Lord Śiva is Lord Śiva. He is very powerful demigod. He can give. He has got the power. But in spite of being favored by Lord Śiva, in spite of his becoming the great devotee of Lord Śiva, why he is described as rākṣasa? That is the point. So therefore if I say Rāvaṇa a rākṣasa, according to the śāstra, another devotee may be angry. So what can I do? It is stated in the śāstra, rākṣasa. Similarly, in the śāstra it is stated that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: "If one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he is duṣkṛtina, the most sinful, mūḍhā, rascal, naradhāma, lowest of the mankind, māyayā apahṛta-jñāna." These things are there. But if we quote the śāstra, that "This man has not surrendered to the Supreme Lord; therefore he is a rascal," then what is wrong with us? It may be very strong words, but it is stated in the śāstra.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Why you should put a different point of view? Just like Rādhākrishnan says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: (BG 18.65) "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Just see, how much rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa says, "You become My devotee," and he interprets, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Just see.
Indian Man: Kṛṣṇa says,"Surrender everything." That's all. And they say, "No..."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender." He says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see how much rascal he is. And if I say, then people will be angry. If I say, "rascal, rascal," then people will be angry.
Dr. Patel: Tomorrow we are going to walk all the distance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I say that we devotees, we are not afraid even of demons. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Asad-grahāt. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). He asked the son, "What you have learned, the best thing, in school?" He said, "My dear asura-varya," not father, "My dear best of the demons, I think this is the best thing." "What is that?" "Now, these people," sadā samudvigna-dhiyām, "always anxious, full of anxiety..." Why? Asad-grahāt: "Because they accepted this material world as all in all." Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt: "On account of their accepting this material world as everything, therefore they are full of anxiety. Now, to get out of this anxiety, so-hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam-ātma-pātaṁ, suicidal place, gṛha, household life, they should give up." Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. "And then what you will do?" "Oh." vanaṁ gato: "He should give up and go to the forest." "And then?" Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta: (SB 7.5.5) "And take shelter of the lotus feet of Hari. I understand this is the best thing." And his father become more angry. "What this rascal is speaking?" like that. (laughing) (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. He's all right? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you.
Prabhupāda: ...to becomes angry by Kṛṣṇa is auspicious, auspicious. It is a very nice verse. "It is very auspicious that you have become angry upon him. He is getting salvation." (break) ...the punishment of Kṛṣṇa, one has to execute many pious activities in his past life, just to get the punishment of Kṛṣṇa. And what to speak of love of Kṛṣṇa, how much pious activities one has to do. If for being punished by Kṛṣṇa, one has to undergo lots of pious activities in the past life, then just see, to be loved by Kṛṣṇa, how much one has to undergo pious activities. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). That is described. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Puñja means heaps, volumes, volumes of pious activities. Then one can come to Kṛṣṇa. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Nobody can come to Kṛṣṇa unless he has background of pious activities and one who has become freed from all sinful activities. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. This is the qualification.
Prabhupāda: What did he say?
Yamunā: He was angry because he had locked the door and locked me outside, and I knocked on the door until he came, and he was angry. He was a little rude. So I could tell something was wrong.
Gurudāsa: Because usually he is not so rude.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Gurudāsa: Usually he is not rude.
Yamunā: He is never harsh. He was a little harsh. I could tell something was wrong.
Prabhupāda: So they are planning something.
Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamyati (?). A mūrkha, a rascal, when he is given good advice, he becomes angry. He becomes angry. He does not take for solution of the problem, but he becomes angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅganaṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam (?). Because they are miscreants, like snakes, if you give him milk, his poison will increase. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅganaṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam.
Bhagavān: He must steal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their satisfaction. So you must allow them. In old zamindar family, they will pay the manager five rupees per month, salary, and allow them to steal. That was simply a token salary that "You are servant." And the manager was so clever, he would steal, but he would not spoil the property of the master. He will manage very nicely that he will extra, make extra income and steal. The master will not be touched. Master will be happy. Master knows that "I am paying him five rupees. That is nothing." And he is constructing big building, getting his sons and daughters married very luxuriantly. Master is... Even fifty years before, there was a zamindar, Raja Manindra Candranandi. He was very magnanimous man, making various charities. So if somebody will complain, "Sir, your this servant is stealing like this," he would be very angry. The man who complains, he will be angry upon him, "Why do you come and complain?" He will not accept any complaint. Rather, he will be angry with the man who complains.
Prabhupāda: That's all. So we say another dog is running in a different way. That's all. These are very strong words. People will be angry. But this is a fact.
Yogeśvara: So here's a practical problem. People would be interested to know our position on divorce. Here in Rome they just passed a divorce law.
Prabhupāda: That is also animalism. Just like a dog having sex intercourse with another female dog, and another, another, another. It is also animalism. So that is your decision. They are animals, and different way they are coming to be naked animal, that's all. The divorce is also dog's business. Dog is having sex intercourse with this female dog and another, another, another, another. It is animalism, That's all.
Devotee: He gets very angry, very upset at this movement.
Prabhupāda: He is such a foolish that he knows that he will not be able to stay in this, but "Why I made this house so strong, durable? I could have made some temporary house, some four pillars, that's all. But why I am anxious? But I want that a building should be so strong it will endure for so many years." But what about you? What is your guarantee? That knowledge, they will not take. This is their illusion. We don't say that you have done wrong. Utilize it. Be comfortable, seated, and use your time for taking that knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Generally, people are mixed, rajas-tamas. So human life, also, they're animals like. They cannot understand anything. Just like when we speak of "Don't eat meat," they become angry. So what is this human life? It is simply in the form of human life. They give example that "There are many animals; they eat flesh. Therefore why we shall not eat?" The other day, the man... I, "You are not animal." Then he was stopped. He thinks that he's human being, but he wants to eat like animal. So what kind of human being he is? Just see. He is proud to become human being, but he wants to behave like animal. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has taken all these people as paśu. Sei paśu baḍo durācāra. He has not said that he's human being.
Yogeśvara: Śakuni.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry.
Bhagavān: Objection is that the people have become so impatient for sense gratification, they have no patience anymore. They can't wait... There was some story. In the United States, there has been this trouble with petrol, and... All over the world, there's been this trouble with petrol, gasoline. So there was rationing. That means people could only get a little gas. So the cars would line up for a great distance in the gas station, and they'd wait for a long time. And sometimes the gas station would run out of gas. And the people would get so angry that they killed the gas station attendant. (break) ...does not teach anyone to be austere or patient.
Prabhupāda: But human life is meant for austere and patience. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). Austerity, penance, that is human life. Otherwise, it is animal life. Simply animal civilization. It is not human civilization. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (car is in gas station, conversation in car about how much gas to get, etc.) (break) ...progressing, they stand their own position, as they are made by nature. Therefore there is no criminality. They are under full control of nature. We are also under full control of nature, but we have been given little concession: to cultivate spiritual knowledge. So that intelligence, extra intelligence, what we have got, instead of cultivating spiritual knowledge, we are using in the same process of sense gratification like the animals. And this, this business, this, means animalistic business in a polished way, is going on as civilization. Actually, it is animalistic. But it is little decorated or polished, and they have accepted, "This is civilization." In other words, they do not know what is human civilization. They do not know. They're animals. They do not know.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feed them every time, whenever they do something.
Prabhupāda: No, after catching them from the forest, they kept within the bars, and no eating for at least one week. Then the trainer comes. Only whips. He comes, and open the doors and only: (makes sound) Flosh, flosh, flosh. So already he's hungry, weak, and he's whipped. In this way, he becomes fearful. As soon as the man comes, he becomes fearful. Then he gives him little food. In this way, after all it is animal, he thinks that "This man is my God. He can save me. He can kill me." Then he takes to him. Whatever he says, he takes. Similarly, if you do not give the ingredients for sense enjoyment, the mind will be controlled. That is the beginning. You simply... Don't give... The mind wants, "Now let me go to the restaurant." "No, sir." Beat him with shoes. Instead of going to the restaurant, he beats the mind with shoes. Then mind will not again say, "Go to the restaurant." That is called swami, gosvāmī. One who can control his mind, that is gosvāmī. We giving the title "Gosvāmī" But if you cannot control your mind, then you are unfit. Go means senses, and svāmī means master. One who can control the senses and master, he is gosvāmī. (pause) ...definition of gosvāmī there: vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ manasa-vegam udara-vegam upastha-vegam, etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt (NOI 1). You have to control the impulse of speaking, vāco vegam, the impulse of becoming angry, vāco vegam, krodha-vegam.
Yogeśvara: Isn't the kṣatriya qualities that he is to be trustworthy?
Prabhupāda: No. When there is political game, everyone does everything to gain his victory. In politics, these things are allowed. Just like killing, fighting, kṣatriya's fighting. That killing is allowed. But killing is not allowed generally. Kṛṣṇa has killed so many. If you take from moral point of view, He's sometimes immoral. He has killed His maternal uncle, Kaṁsa, and Śiśupāla, Śiśupāla, his cousin brother. And Balarāma killed Rukma. Once He saved him, and another time, that Aniruddha's marriage, or something like that... Balarāma killed Rukma, the brother of Rukmiṇī. They were family relatives. But there was some misunderstanding in chess playing that other party, Rukma, he was cheating by tricks. The Balarāma became so angry, they killed him. So in politics amongst the kṣatriyas, these things are not uncommon.
Prabhupāda: Everything is worst. Sinful is sinful. Disease is disease. This body, either it is living or it is dead, it is not very important thing. Now see. And the whole world is after this body. Kṛṣṇa says, "The body, either dead or alive, it is not a subject matter for serious consideration." Now see. And what the world is going on? Simply for bodily... Body means senses. It is very difficult to the, for the western people to understand that body is not important thing; the soul is important thing. First of all, they do not know what is soul and then consideration of importance. This is their position. And if one cannot understand what is soul, what he will understand about God? Soul is a minute particle of God. If one cannot understand about this minute particle, then what he'll understand of the Supreme? In the laboratory, if you can test a little sample, just like take a little sea water, analyze, you chemically test, then you can understand what is the composition of the sea water. But if you have no knowledge even a small drop of sea water, how you'll understand the sea, what... That is their position. They do not understand even the sample of spirit soul, as we are. Simply they are trying to cover it. "There is no soul. There is no soul. Life is generated from matter." Although they cannot prove it. A fool's paradise. The fools, rascals, they are explaining the living force in some way, and other fools are accepting. This is the position of western countries, Europe and America. It is a fool's paradise. It is paradise, certainly. Very, very, big, big building and advancement, but all rascals and fools. Fool's paradise. (pause) And if you call a fool a fool, he'll be angry.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) How they have made easy life, that see. They are... There is a story that a boy went for examination. So when he came back, his father asked, "My dear boy, how you have written your question paper?" "Yes, very nice." "How?" "No, those questions which were very difficult, I could not answer. And the easier questions, what is to write? I know everything. (laughter) Easier questions, there is no need of writing. I know everything." Both ways he has not written anything. So these rascals, both ways they will not follow anything. And still, they will credit... Not only Christians, everywhere these people want to banish God. Simply we are canvassing "God, God, God." Otherwise nobody cares. Say about 1945, so in front of my house there was an old man. So as neighbor, we had very good talks always. So as soon as I say, "Bhagavān," he will be angry. "God." So one day he said, "Why you always say Bhagavān, God?" Just see, an old man and still he is such a rascal. He did not like. That is called demonism. Even the father of Prahlāda Mahārāja, that five years old boy, he was doing nothing harm, simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa—he became angry: "No, no." So big enemy that he wanted to kill him. This is demoniac.
Prabhupāda: Then that servant, while he was employed, there was an urgent business. The rich man said that "Tomorrow I am going. You must come and go with me." So suppose he was to go at ten o'clock. Then at nine o'clock a messenger came: "You are ready?" "No, just I am cooking. Then I shall finish my cooking, take my meals and then we shall go." So he was very angrily inquired, "So why you did not...?" "No, I am cooking." "Where you are cooking?" Now, he has three bamboos, and on the top there was a pot, rice pot, and he was giving fire here. So that rich man came and saw. "What kind of cooking this is?" "No, there is heat. It is going on." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. (aside:) Don't come very near. If you advise rascals, they'll be angry. No good result. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. So we have to become very strong preacher. Then this movement will stay. If you simply take the temple worship, it will not stay very long.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If I say the truth you'll be angry. (chuckling)
Guest (4): No, no one will be angry, but you have mentioned...
Prabhupāda: Gandhi was a politician. What does he know about dharma? He was a politician. He thought it wise that British government is very strong... Before him so many political parties tried to become violent, and they were all curbed down. This Aurobindo also was a leader of anarchist party, and when he was condemned to death, then his senses came: "This is all useless. Let me engage in performing yoga." So Gandhi thought that before him all these violent movement was cast down by the British. So he took it as a method, nonviolence, noncooperation, and to capture the public of India-India is generally inclined religiously—he became a mahātmā. But mahātmā is different. A mahātmā is not interested in politics. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ-prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). That is mahātmā. Mahātmā has nothing to do with politics.
Prabhupāda: Formerly the whole world was Vedic culture. They have deteriorated, and India a simply glimpse is maintained still. And everywhere it is lost. (loud screeching noise of birds) Why they are angry?
Śrutakīrti: They're in a cage.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I mean the material universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is manifest, not manifest. Not annihilation. The energy is there. Just like sometimes I become angry, and sometime I am peaceful. But that means anger is annihilated. Anger is there. It may be manifest at any time. There is no question of annihilation. You say like that because actually it is vyakta, avyakta: manifest and nonmanifest.
Tripurāri: Sometimes we defeat someone by our preaching, and we show them they should take the book, but still they don't take. But if we call them a fool and point out to them how they are foolish, they become offended. So rather that we just very humbly say...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our... We know that he is a fool, but we have to present in a different way. We shall say that "There is nobody as learned as you are." In this way just make him puffed up, and then you say humbly, "My only humble request is that whatever you have learned, please forget. Now you try to understand Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That's all." This is the different way of calling him, that "Whatever you have learned, this is all rubbish." We simply say, "Kindly forget them. Now you turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." This is the way Prabodānanda Sarasvatī taught us. You flatter him, "Sir, I have got one request." Flatter him like anything, falling down on his leg and becoming humble and... "Sir, I have got one request." "What is that?" "You are very learned scholar. But kindly forget them, and you try to turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He will not be angry. Then, if he turns his attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then naturally he will forget all rubbish things.
Devotee (2): They see us distributing, and they don't like what we're doing, they get very angry, but still, they're thinking of Kṛṣṇa all day. We often wondered how they are benefiting even though they maintain this very envious...
Devotee (1): Just like the Mohammedans were benefited.
Prabhupāda: They say, "Here is the Kṛṣṇa man." So he utters the name of Kṛṣṇa. That is good for him.
Devotee (2): And then after a while, when they become our friends, then they may stop and listen to us.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because he has chanted Kṛṣṇa, "Here is the Kṛṣṇa man. Here is the rascal Kṛṣṇa man." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So do that. Don't approach the cheater guru, bluffer guru, and be cheated. Stop this business. This has spoiled the whole spiritual atmosphere of the world. Take guru, the supreme guru, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when in Mahābhārata when Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira performed rājasūya yajña, in the rājasūya yajña one person is elected the chief guest. So in that yajña many big, big demigods were present, and Bhīṣmadeva was present, Vyāsadeva was present, and many, many other saintly person, brāhmaṇa, from the whole universe were present. And Kṛṣṇa was decided to be accepted as the... Everyone agreed to accept Him as the chief guest. And the Śiśupāla, he protested. Then everyone was angry to kill him. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted the guru by everyone. By our ācāryas, recent ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya... I am not speaking of the loafer class, but those who are recognized ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya... They accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru and follow His instruction and try to convince others. "Others" means even your family members. That is success of life. Saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. Why should you lead your life blindly? This human life is meant for enlightenment, supreme enlightenment, and this is supreme enlightenment, to understand the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and preach it as far as you can. If not, you can preach amongst your family members. This is perfection of life. What is that verse? Ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. That is the desire of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: When we call them rascals, they become angry. And actually they are rascals. They do not know the problems of life.
Haṁsadūta: So she... Her next question is that in the last few days, approximately five hundred devotees have assembled here from all over the world. She says that she knows that this is the birthplace of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So therefore they have come. She knows that it is a holy place. She wants to know that even before Lord Caitanya's time, was it also considered to be a holy place?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is perpetually holy place, but it is known since the birthday of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Nalinī-kānta: Punishment is not the best means of reformation. Sometimes if someone is sent to jail by the government, he'll simply be thinking, "Oh, when I can get out and depose these rascals?" So if someone is punished by God, he might become more angry towards God.
Prabhupāda: But that does not mean God will stop punishing. Just like these animals. The stick is there. He may be angry, but stick is required. Otherwise you cannot work with him. "Hut!" You see? The stick is there in his hand. Otherwise he cannot get work. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Nalinī-kānta: So eventually they will have to surrender.
Prabhupāda: Without surrendering there is no other alternative, willingly or unwillingly.
Prabhupāda: I remember the moment was very valuable. Yes.
Devotee (2): Can you tell us the story?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think I have said that.
Satsvarūpa: When you were speaking to one man...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He became very angry and chastised me.
Jagajīvana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, was this during a lecture by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jagajīvana: Was this during a lecture?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was not... One of my old brother, he, he wanted to speak something. So I leaned my... I immediately became... (laughter) So he chastised him more than me.
Devotee (2): When Lord Caitanya chastised someone more than Advaita Ācārya, Advaita felt that He had been neglected 'cause he had not received a greater chastisement.
Prabhupāda: He wanted to be chastised, so Caitanya fulfilled His desire.
Prabhupāda: Then you cannot be God. (laughter)
Paramahaṁsa: So she said instead my other son is God. He is very... Also she was a little angry because Guru Maharaj-ji's wife, that American wife that he got, who used to be his secretary—after they were married, in all the temples, their ashrams all over the world, they used to have that Bal Yogeshwara's picture and then his mother's picture. But now they took the mother's picture down and put the wife's picture up. So the mother was very angry. Therefore she kicked them both out, and now her picture and another son is on the altar.
Prabhupāda: Another son. So they're accepting.
Prabhupāda: It means, this is government deceiving. The man is not there. And even if he is there, suppose the soldier after dying for his country has become a tree, is it a very good reward? (laughter) How foolishly they are thinking. We have to point out their foolishness. That is our business. They are working very hard, undoubtedly, but they are working foolishly. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). The result is simply they are becoming tired. That's all. Because they are not working intelligently, like monkey, he is busy all day. What is the value of your busy? You'll find the monkey is never sitting idle. He's always busy, "eḥ, eh, eh." (imitating monkey) So what is the result of that busyness? He's a monkey. And they claim to be coming from monkey, these rascals. So we can see that your monkey's quality is already there. (laughter) You have not improved more than monkey, because you are working uselessly. They are theorizing that they have come from monkey, and as soon as you say that you are monkey, they become angry. Just see. They are claiming that we are coming from monkey. And if you say you are monkey, no better than monkey, then they are angry. Just see.
Prabhupāda: Nescience, yes. That is pravṛtti and nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means sense enjoyment. And nivṛtti means self-negation. So when we say that "You shall not have illicit sex," and their inclination is illicit sex, so therefore it is revolutionary. They are materialistic persons. They want sex enjoyment to the best capacity-homosex, this sex, that sex, naked dance, all sexually inclined, pravṛtti. And we say, "Stop this," nivṛtti. They do not like it because āsura. Pravṛtti jagat. They do not know this is essential. They do not know it. This is essential. Tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya means brahmacarya. The so-called swamis, they are coming for this so-called yoga practice and..., but they are themself victim of sex. This is going on. Actually, it is a bluff—they have become swami and teaching some yoga system—because they do not know that one has to stop this first of all. Brahmacaryena. So this bluffing is going on all over the world, and we are speaking just against them. Murkhayopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you give instruction to the rascals, he will simply be angry.
Prabhupāda: If one becomes lusty and if it is not fulfilled, he becomes angry. This is all psychological.
Guest (2): Yeah, well, when a person is attached to that group in the temple, isn't this, become a lust too? You see, being influenced by the group and also attached to the people...
Prabhupāda: We are teaching to be influenced by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we have written fifty books like that, four hundred pages. You can show some of our books.
Paramahaṁsa: This is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Volume Two, Volume Four...
Prabhupāda: Sixty volumes.
Prabhupāda: You, why do you believe on your seeing? That is the defect. That is the defect of the Westerners. They are very deficient; still they say, "I cannot see." What is your seeing power? Suppose if Nārada comes, some demigods come, but you cannot see. Just like when Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva appeared, Prahlāda was seeing. "Is your God here?" "Yes." And he could not see. So why do you believe so much on your seeing? You have to attain seeing power. That is very good example, Prahlāda... Hiraṇyakaśipu asking Prahlāda, "Where is your God?" "My God is everywhere." "He is on the pillar?" "Yes." So he was seeing, but he was not seeing. He became angry and broke the pillar. "Let me see, where is your God." This is the position. So one has to create the eyes to see things. Not that whatever eyes you have got you can see everything. No. Just like motorcar is being driven, a child is seeing that the car is running automatically. And the father is seeing, "No, there is driver."
Devotee 6: Was there a time when there was no material world?
Prabhupāda: No, no. The material world in potency is always there. But it has got a manifestation, beginning, and again end. It begins from God, and again it ends in God. But God is eternal. (break) ...feeling of your, it is manifested, and sometimes it is not manifested. But the feeling potency is there. Just like sometimes I become angry and sometimes not angry, but the potency of becoming angry is there. That is eternal. Similarly, the material world, the material energy, or the material nature, is permanent, but it is sometimes manifest, sometimes not manifest. It is now manifest. It will end. Again, another body you will manifest, and it will end. But I am eternal.
Prabhupāda: When it is said that all these are created by God, they become very angry, eh? Is it not?
Paramahaṁsa: Sometimes.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes, or always?
Śrutakīrti: You mean some of the scientists.
Prabhupāda: All of them, invariably.
Paramahaṁsa: Some of them accept...
Prabhupāda: Invariably. The scientists, as soon as somebody says, "This is all created by God," they become very angry, eh?
Bali-mardana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is... What is the reason they become angry? Somebody has created. They say "Nature." Take nature, somebody, but you have not created.
Prabhupāda: What time do you want to go there?
Jayatīrtha: Perhaps around... When is convenient? Ten o'clock? Before the massage?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...fed up with so-called religion. Therefore they're angry. But when they find this is real, genuine, everyone will accept. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...wants to come and see you, he likes your movement very much. He has written one review of one of your books. He also met you I think briefly. He is from Boston, Mr. Leo Prudden, Professor Leo Prudden. Now he lives here in Los Angeles.
Jayatīrtha: There will be many professors coming over to see you while you are here.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...is our enemy, it means Hare Kṛṣṇa is acting upon him. Yes.
Bahulāśva: Like Kaṁsa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (chuckles) Kāmāt bhayāt krodhāt. Either for lust desires or out of fear, out of anger, some way or other, if one is attached to Kṛṣṇa, his life will be nice. So enemy means krodhāt, being angry upon us. "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people does like that." So he is angry. But that will also be effective. Krodhāt.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa is so merciful.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So to become angry, that is also qualification of God, to become angry.
John Mize: Is...?
Prabhupāda: To become angry is also qualification of God.
John Mize: I don't understand what you last said. To be angry is...
Bahulāśva: A quality of God. To become angry is a quality of God.
Prabhupāda: Because unless there is anger in God, how there is anger in me? But we, as we misuse our independence, we misuse our anger. And God does not misuse his independence; He does not misuse His anger. But the anger quality is there. Otherwise, how I have got anger? This is the Vedānta philosophy. Janmādyasya yataḥ: "Everything is emanating from the Supreme." So if the anger is there, it must be there.
John Mize: And His anger or jealousy?
Prabhupāda: Yes, sometimes anger acts. If you fight, if you do not be angry, you cannot fight.
Jayatīrtha: In the Kṛṣṇa Book there are so many stories of Kṛṣṇa's anger or... Once, when His mother was (indistinct) a cooking pot...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bahulāśva: Kṛṣṇa's activities are always for the good. So even when He becomes angry...
Prabhupāda: That is also...
John Mize: Righteous anger.
Bahulāśva: Yes, spiritual anger.
Dharmādhyakṣa: It's His mercy. So if Kṛṣṇa gets angry at us, that's actually...
Prabhupāda: Everything has got proper use. In the material condition we do not know that. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has made a list, how to use your, this anger, greediness, like that. He says, kamaḥ kṛṣṇa-karmārpaṇe. We are lusty for doing something for our sense gratification. The same desire, same propensity, can be utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are writing books, keeping night, whole night. So for an old man like me, it is tedious. But we are doing for Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, another author may be writing whole night for some sex literature. So the labor for producing a sex literature and the labor for producing a Bhāgavata is the same. It may be same ambition that "Let me become a big author. My name will be very popular." But one thing is being done for Kṛṣṇa; one thing is being done for sense gratification. So that propensity of becoming a reputed author or the labor, this, same, but it is being utilized for different purposes. Similarly, you take anything, if you use it for... Just like Hanumān. He became angry upon Rāvaṇa. He set fire in his city, destroyed the whole city. He showed his anger, but not for his personal sense gratification. He wanted to serve Lord Rāma. Sītā was stolen by him, so there was arrangement for fighting, and he did the same thing, set fire. To set fire in your home or your country, it is not good, but he did it for satisfaction of Lord Rāmacandra. So everything has its proper use when it is utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are living beings. We are conscious. We cannot give up anything, but we are being trained up how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Rādhā-vallabha: In New Jersey one time we were driving very fast to try and meet you at the airport, and a police officer pulled us over, and he was very angry. We were driving very fast. And he said...
Prabhupāda: No, you should not drive fast. (devotees laugh) No, no, this is not good.
Rādhā-vallabha: We had to pick you up at the airport, Prabhupāda, and we were late.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but fast, drive very fast, is risky.
Rādhā-vallabha: So this police officer he pulled us over. He was very angry. He said, "Let us see your license and registration." We gave it to him, and it said International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness on the registration. He said, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa." And he asked us some questions about the philosophy, and he listened very carefully, and then he said, "I cannot give people like you a ticket." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...they are pleased, but don't take undue advantage. Yes. (break) ...remain friends. That is wanted.
Prabhupāda: Cerebrum, yes. So intelligence becomes more more who has got more cerebrum. So psychologically, it is... A very intelligent man has got sixty-four ounce cerebrum. And woman, even she is very intelligent, is not more than thirty-four ounce. Therefore we don't find, amongst women, any big scientist. It is impossible. Don't be angry. (laughter) And these rascals giving equal rights. Just see. And Vedic civilization: "No, they should be protected." The woman should be protected by the father, by the husband, and by elderly sons. No independence. (break) ...she is my sister. She is old, about three years less than me, but she has got sons. She is very happy moving, protected by the sons. Even Kuntī, such intelligent woman, such educated and..., she also kept herself under her sons, the Pāṇḍavas.
Prabhupāda: Your mother was very angry upon us. (laughter) You know that? When she came to see me, I told, "Mrs. Bruce, can you give me some money?" (laughing) (Imitating angry woman's voice:) "I have given you two sons!" (laughter) She was very angry. "Still you want money?" (laughter) "And that's all right."
Mrs. Wax: You said that's the proper...
Prabhupāda: Yes, son should be so nicely educated that he can teach his mother also. That is nice. Some of the parents of my disciples, they come to congratulate, give me thanks. And some of them to curse me (laughter), that "You have spoiled our children." (laughing) Brahmānanda's mother is very angry. (laughter)
Mrs. Wax: She's very angry.
Brahmānanda: She has given myself and also my brother.
Mrs. Wax: Oh, your brother too.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: When she came to see me I asked, "Mrs. Bruce, you have got money. Give me some money." So she became angry: "I have given my two sons." (laughter)
Sudāmā: And they even indicate, Prabhupāda, on the advertisements that smoking is hazardous for the health.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...for money, the money which will push them to hell. This is their intelligence. We have to give them intelligence, open their eyes. (break) ...angry first of all because mūrkhāyo 'padeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye: "If you give good intelligence to the fools and rascals, they will be angry." But still, you have to do it. Just like when Nityānanda Prabhu went to Jagāi-Mādhāi to deliver them, they became angry and injured. So that is preacher. These rascals will be angry, will sometimes do harm to you, and still, you have to do it. That is preaching. Are you understanding what is preaching? Yes. You have to prepare like that. At all risk you have to preach. (break) ...world is full of rascals, and you have to educate them. So according to one's capacity let them preach, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. But everyone can preach to some extent. There is no hindrance.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His question is whether is it due to our impurity that we cannot convince people to stop cutting their throats.
Prabhupāda: No, it is due to their impurity, they do not take. What you are saying, that is pure. But the difficulty is if you instruct a rascal, he becomes angry. The example is given that if you give milk and banana to the serpent, he increases his poison. Payaḥ-panaṁ bhujaṅganaṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. Therefore we have to select sometimes that our preaching is in the proper place. Because a snake-like person, they will not hear. But if you are a good charmer, you can charm the snake also. (laughter) That depends on your quality. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu did. He made these snakes, the tigers, the elephants, all dancing Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is possible by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. (laughter) That's nice. (laughing) So to become angry means defeat. If two persons are in argument the man, the one party, he becomes angry, that means he is defeated. Why one should become angry? It is the argument, logic. They should continue. And to become angry and to go away, that means defeat.
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we speak these things on television and the newspapers and people become angry, if all the people become angry like she does, is it still good propaganda for us?
Prabhupāda: No, then we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We don't make disturbance. But in the Bhagavad-gītā everything is discussed, this varṇa-saṅkara and the first-class man, second-class man. If we have to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then we have to discuss. But if they do not like, better chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and don't discuss anything. But these things are discussed. If you are not agreeable to hear from Bhagavad-gītā, then let us chant together Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. But these things are discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā about varṇa-saṅkara. If the population, varṇa-saṅkara, is increased, then it becomes hell. So if you want to increase the hellish person, then don't discuss. But if you think it is a problem, then discuss.
Prabhupāda: But he is animal. That is, if you call a thief a thief, he will feel insulted. But does it mean that I shall say that "You are very honest?" A thief shall be called thief. That is natural. If you call a Negro, "You black," he will be angry. But he is black. So... So that is another thing. When the activities are similar to the animal activities, then he is animal. Why a reasonable man will not accept that, hm? In that case also, he is animal. Because they say, "Man is rational animal." So if you are devoid of rationality then again you are animal. So how he will avoid, that he is not animal?
Brahmānanda: Actually, they are just feeling frustrated because it is a fact that woman has been exploited by the men. So now they want to counteract this.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say that woman should be exploited by men. We say the man should be responsible and give protection to woman.
Brahmānanda: But they feel so angry from the exploitation that they cannot accept that actually a man could protect them.
Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. But the ideal is different. Ideal is that man must be first-class and he must be responsible to take care of the woman, and she should be given all protection, all necessities. That is the duty of man. Just like father takes the charge of his daughter, similarly, husband should take charge of the woman. And similarly, elderly sons also took charge of the woman. The father never exploits the daughter. He gives all protection. That is the duty of the husband also. When she is grown up, she cannot remain under the protection of father. She is given, therefore, to a suitable boy to take charge. But the charge is the same, to give protection, all comforts. And because there is no first-class man to take charge of the woman, they are declaring independence. All the men are doing that. They keep girlfriend, make her pregnant, and go away, goes away.
Brahmānanda: Well, all the radio stations are carrying it. And the TV will probably have it tonight. Actually, this one purport might clarify the disagreement. They may not be so angry.
Prabhupāda: Why do they not understand, by nature's discrimination the woman is put into greater difficulty by bearing child?
Brahmānanda: That is the one thing they cannot avoid. They cannot escape.
Prabhupāda: Why this arrangement is by nature? How they can change it?
Brahmānanda: Someone was telling me that there have been many instances that when women are being taken to the hospital to give birth to their children—they're in the ambulance, and they are experiencing the pains—that they are cursing their husbands, "Why you have given me this pain?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, because birth pain is very severe.
Prabhupāda: He is not moved by the rascal scientist. (laughter) All rascals are moved by the so-called scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (laughing) The scientist is angry.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The soul is trapped as well as untrapped in the material body...
Prabhupāda: Because he wanted to be trapped.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. No, he is a good boy. Although I say, "You do not know anything." (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't become angry?
Prabhupāda: No.
Brahmānanda: He admitted.
Prabhupāda: He is good man.
Prabhupāda: "Here we are, but where are the swami's disciples?" Ask them.
Akṣayānanda: Then they will become angry.
Prabhupāda: "No, no. Well, don't be angry. Well, Bhaktivedanta Swami's disciples, we are present here. Present anyone else. So how shall I believe you?"
Akṣayānanda: Then they will say, "We are doing the same as you. But we don't have to help you because we are already doing the same thing. We are feeding the poor, giving charity."
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not understand.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Nirnayika just wanted to use their scale, and they would try and cheat him. They would ask him for money just to let us use their scale to weigh the vegetables we buy. So I intervened one day, and then he got so angry that he abused Kṛṣṇa also. These are such big demons, these people. They live in Vṛndāvana but...
Prabhupāda: So give them prasāda; they will be all right. Yes. Give them prasāda.
Harikeśa: The perfect solution.
Brahmānanda: We were also demons before we took prasāda. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Our preaching means to turn demons into devotees. That is our preaching. If you keep them demon, then your preaching is lacking. Give them prasādam today and tell them, "Whenever you come, take prasāda."
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...in the Back to Godhead that those who have come to Vṛndāvana for sense gratification, their next birth is monkey and dog in Vṛndāvana; then, next birth, liberated. So they became angry. Vṛndāvana is not for sense gratification. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura therefore says,
- rūpa raghunātha pade haibe ākuti
- kabe hāma bujhabo se yugala pīriti
The rasa-līlā of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, a person like Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I could not understand it because I have not yet studied the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī and Raghunātha Gosvāmī, six Gosvāmīs. How can I understand?" So these people, they think by seeing rasa-līlā by professional men they will understand the līlā of Kṛṣṇa. Rūpa-Raghunātha instruction not cared for. But without going through the literature, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, nobody can understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you… Nowadays you pay somebody, and he will do anything. So they appointed this Jhinna. He found that he is a very, intelligent lawyer. He was in the Congress. So there was dissension. There must be. So once this Jhinna was to be the president of the Congress, and the Patel, he frustrated. So Jhinna became angry, and at this moment the Britishers took it. He was a very intelligent barrister. So he instigated that, "You form a party, Muslim league. And whatever money is required for propaganda, we shall pay." So regular subscription was raised from all big, big British companies, mercantile, to pay him: "Whatever money, you organize the Muslims against the Hindus." And he did it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difficulty, that, wholesale people have been miseducated. That is our protest. And this miseducated is ruling the whole world, all rascals (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...cheated in some business transaction, they become very mad, angry, so much so sometimes they want to kill the opposing party. But when they are cheated in this way they don't mind so much, because their sense gratification, either way, is there. So only people who are serious about understanding the truth will accept these things.
Prabhupāda: We therefore submit our statement as it is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot say that we are cheating, because we are presenting something authorized, which is accepted. That's all. So we are not cheater. You may accept or not accept; that is your business. But we are presenting something standard. That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Let's say the government is building some wells or some roads. They could feed the people who are doing that, śūdras who are doing that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śūdras, that "You dig this well and take your food." That's all. Work will go on. At the present moment I require one scissor. I can go to the blacksmith and pay him some grain. He will give me. Now they are producing, Krupp Company in Germany, millions of razor, millions of scissors. Now they will have to find market, where to sell. And as soon as goes to sell in India, the British government—"No, no. You cannot sell." Then he becomes angry: "Oh, all right." He declares war.
Brahmānanda: Just like they were selling land on the moon.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. (laughter) He was telling me. Selling ticket. And if I say, "They are cheater, bluffer," they become angry. Just see. Actually they cheated and bluffed so many men. Now they say it is inhabitable. Why they sold ticket for going there? So many living entities there are, living within the sand, and they say there is no living entity. How they are eating? How they are sleeping?
Prabhupāda: So therefore it is, everything, in God's hand. Their difficulty is that they'll not accept God. That is the... Therefore we are very much angry with them. We want to kick on their face. The atheist number one, all these so-called scientists.
Prabhupāda: What is the problem? But still, these rascals will say that he is right. You see? He cannot even analyze properly, and still he is obstinate; he is right. This rascaldom is going on. And if we say "rascal," they are angry. Murkhayopadeṣo hi prakopaya na śanti...: "To a rascal, if you give the right instruction, they will be simply angry." That's all. Not pacification, they will be angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujanganam kevalaṁ visa-vardhanam: "Just like the serpent, rascal. If you give him milk, he'll drink it and increase his poison." That's it. The result will be he will increase his poison. Better to keep them starvation. Therefore everyone, as soon as one sees the serpent, immediately kills. No consideration. "Here is a serpent. Kill him." Similarly, immediately we see the scientists, kill. (laughter) That is the only proccess. So-called scientists. So do you agree, Harikeśa, for kicking on the face of these rascals or not?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...is occupying very exalted post, even in this material world, he is favored by Kṛṣṇa. Sanātana Gosvāmī, when the Nawab said that "I shall arrest you," then he replied that "You are representative of God, so if you arrest me I have no objection." He said that. He was Mohammedan, and he was a Hindu brāhmaṇa. He never felt that "How the Mohammedan can arrest me?" No. He said that "You are representative of God because you are in such exalted post." (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Kṛṣṇa also says, "Anyone who is, materially even, very opulent, that means he has got some power." (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) ...in politics, how to treat with enemies, how to treat with friends, how to make... In politics there are so many things, diplomacy. So he said, "What is this nonsense? Everyone should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. They are all equal." His father became angry. What is that?
Brahmānanda: They had a gurukula here at Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. Isn't it? And many of the children of the tenants were coming, and they were wearing tilaka. And then they would go home and tell their parents not to eat meat and so on, and the parents became very angry and took their children back. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Hiraṇyakaśipu education, then it is filled up immediately. And if you introduce Prahlāda education-vacant. (break) Hm? (laughs) (break) ...meet me at night, all you.
Prabhupāda: Then how you can? These rascals, these Māyāvādīs, they play rāsa-līlā. (break) ...ācarati śreṣṭhas means that śreṣṭha is ordinary person, but not Bhagavān. Bhagavān can act any way. And still, Bhagavān has never instructed you that "You imitate Me in raising the Govardhana Hill." Has He said like that, that "You also raise the Govardhana Hill like Me"? (break) ...orders man-manā bhava mad-bhakto ṁad-yājī mām. That is for you. Always think of Him. Always become His devotee. Worship Him. Offer your obeisances. That's all. That is for you. Yasodamayi was asking Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, can you bring the slipper of Your father?" He could not. He was a small child. Still, with great difficulty He could raise that. But the person who can raise the Govardhana Hill, He was feeling difficulty to raise the slipper? Why? If at that time He becomes like Govardhana, Giridhārī, then the līlā between father and son will be damaged. He plays just like a child. Although He can raise even in that age, to raise the hill. One should understand Kṛṣṇa. Everyone compares Him with ordinary man: "Kṛṣṇa has done this? Then I shall do." Kṛṣṇa has done so many other things. Why don't you do it? This rascal... Anyone who imitates Kṛṣṇa on the plea that "Kṛṣṇa has played this; therefore we shall do." He can do anything. He can eat meat and He can eat the whole universe. That was shown to His mother: "Mother, you are angry because I have eaten dirt.
Prabhupāda: They were very upset. And when I was coming, I think, in Chicago, in the airplane, one of the host girl, she was seeing... (laughter) I asked her to supply one 7-up. And, "I have no key." She was so angry. But all the captains and others, they gathered around me. (laughter)
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: There is a story that a grocer's son was doing business, and when he was given a five-rupees' note, so he was giving four rupees. So the customer said, "Why you are giving me four rupees?" "No, I do not know what is the exchange." "No, it is six rupees." So "No, father will be angry." (laughter) Means he knows perfectly well what is five rupees, but he is innocent when he was giving four rupees. And when the customer wanted six rupees, he, "No, my father will be angry." (break) ...created a havoc by misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā, all people. According to their wish, "Five-rupees note means four rupees," by imagination. They have created havoc all over the world. Otherwise everything is there. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). If we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then whole world becomes immediately happy. But they will not take it. They will manufacture their own, two plus two equal to five or three, not exactly the four.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Franco. There was that Franco.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. He was given horse urine to drink, Napoleon. Such a great hero, but he had to drink horse urine. This Englishman after Battle of, what is that? Waterloo. When he was arrested, when he was asking water, he was given horse urine. Because everyone was very, very angry. Napoleon became just like Hiranyakasipu. They were threatening their children: "Oh, he, Bona, is coming. Sleep. Sleep. Sleep." He became so much.... He was known as Bona. You do not know all these things?
Prabhupāda: If some children discuss some serious subject matter, what is the value? And they are all children in the cradle of nature, that's all. Prakṛteḥ kriya.... Therefore it is word, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Just like children—"Ha! Sit down here"—he has to sit down. Then where is his freedom to discuss? Prakṛti says that "You sit down here. Don't go there." He has to accept. Then what is the value of discussion?
Acyutānanda: Mainly, these Karl Marx, they were angry at the Christian church for exploiting the poor masses, and that's the reason...
Prabhupāda: This is our...
Acyutānanda: ...so he has attacked. He has taken vengeance on this.
Prabhupāda: That they are doing. Still they are doing. Just like you said, some sprinkling water. They have no philosophy and they violate everything, what is stated there in Bible. Now you say that "Thou shall not kill;" they say, "Thou shall not murder." They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning, man-to-man marriage. They are sanctioning abortion.
Prabhupāda: Those places are good places for preaching.
Jayapatāka: I went there when I bought the boat. People there are so hungry, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Angry?
Jayapatāka: Hungry. Hungry. They're very.... I was eating a banana, I threw the peel on the ground and a boy picked up and ate the peel. I saw. They are so hungry. If we went there and distributed prasādam, so many people would be...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: He breaks?
Jayapatāka: Because... He used to be baby. Now he's getting angry more. We'll make over there one fenced area, brick.
Prabhupāda: So make pakkā.
Prabhupāda: Still, if you say, "You are mūḍha," they become angry. Such mūḍhas, rascals, they are in the government service. And if you say that "You are mūḍhas," he becomes angry. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye: "If a mūḍha is advised nice instruction, he becomes angry." He does not take it. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam: "If you give milk and banana to a snake, you simply increase his poison." One day he will come-(growls). You see? "I have given you milk and you..." "Yes, that is my nature. Yes. You give me milk, and I am prepared to kill you." This is mūḍha. We have to kill this civilization of mūḍhas. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Those who are actually human being, you have to give them Kṛṣṇa. And those who are mūḍhas, we have to kill them. This is our business. Kill all the mūḍhas and give Kṛṣṇa to the sane man. Yes. That will prove that you are really Kṛṣṇa's. We are not nonviolent. We are violent to the mūḍhas.
Prabhupāda: Again he became angry. "Somebody else than me? I am God."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I am world preacher."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is so kind that He is sitting in everyone's heart to give him good advice. There is no need of asking. He is only finding out the good opportunity to speak to him. (Bengali) Two birds sitting? So He is always eager to give you advice. He comes down to give you advice. So we are not taking the advice. That is the position.
Harikeśa: They will get very angry.
Prabhupāda: Angry... With shoes. We beat them with shoes that "You have created a civilization to work like ass, and ideal is to become a pig. What is this civilization? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puru... (SB 2.3.19). And for their votes you become a president. What you are better than a pig? A pig votes for another pig, big pig. That's all. How people will be happy?"
Harikeśa: You told them that in South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Did I say?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura was so strict (laughs) that because he married twice, he used to say, "strī-saṅgī, attached to woman," even his father. (laughter) He was very strict. Sometimes when he would be angry, he'd, "You strī-saṅgī." And don't discuss this thing. (laughs) He was very strict. No excuse, no compromise.
Siddha-svarūpananda: And if I am angry at others, it's because I'm angry at Kṛṣṇa also.
Prabhupāda: Everything begins from Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ sarvam pravartate. Where is your other friend? Oh, here he is!
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śiva-jvara.
Prabhupāda: All right. (break) "Jaya Prabhupāda. Haribol." (laughs) They'll not touch unless I give, and they are satisfied, even one grain. That is... They don't want more, that "Give me more." No. But constantly. (break) Make folded hand. Yes. Sometimes he'll press like that, eh, to show me that I am dying. They make quick friends with old men. (break) ...a few katias(?), that is very easy. You assort the katias. You go and place, daytime. And nightime, take a katia and spread anywhere, and you can see. Indian system.
Gurukṛpā: You mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that one cheater takes the money, another cheater takes it...
Prabhupāda: No, no, his business is cheating. His business is cheating. He said, "These rascals want to be cheated, so why not cheat?"
Madhudviṣa: So we shouldn't be so angry at him. Some people are serving coffee because people want coffee. Some people are selling bīḍīs because people want bīḍīs. So if some people want to be cheated, so he is simply performing a function of society.
Prabhupāda: That is the world. Therefore the whole world is the society of cheater and cheated. That is the version of my Guru Mahārāja. The whole so-called human society means a bunch of cheaters and cheated. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rādhāvallabha: So when one woman read this article, she became very angry. She came back and was very angry.
Prabhupāda: She may be angry. She is woman and man. Actually this is physiological. If a man is too much addicted to sex life, he'll become impotent, and if he begets child, it will be a girl. With no potency to give birth to a male child.... That requires potency.
Prabhupāda: My father used to do that. He'd go to a vegetable vendor. He has got a big basket, and he'll say, "What do you want for all, the whole basket." So he is ready because he'll sit down so long, so at very cheap rate he'll give it. And it was not required in the family so much. My mother became very angry, that "You are bringing so many, so much vegetable, it is being spoiled." But he would purchase like that. If you give him in those days fifty rupees to go to the market, he will spend all the money and bring at home. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) We are prepared to spend. (break) ...from saintly person.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, so he was the father of the Yakṣas, this Kuvera. So Dhruva Mahārāja was a great devotee. You have heard the name of Dhruva Mahārāja. He was insulted by his stepmother. When he was young, very young child, so his father had two wives. So the junior wife was very pet to the husband, and the senior wife was not so much pet. But both of them had two sons. So the junior wife's son was sitting on the lap, a small child. So Dhruva Mahārāja was the son of the senior wife. As a child, he was also trying to sit down on the lap of the father. The other brother, he does not know stepbrother is brother. But the junior wife, she said, "My dear son, you cannot sit down on the lap of your father because you are not born in my womb. And that boy, the other boy, he is sitting on the lap of your father because he is born in my womb." So it was sarcastic remark, but Dhruva Mahārāja, although he was a child, four or five years old, he took it very seriously. A kṣatri..., kṣatriya... (Hindi) He became very angry.
Guru-kṛpā: (break) ...angry about was how they can come to Your Divine Grace and be so puffed up and be insulting.
Prabhupāda: How they are haughty, insulting.
Guru-kṛpā: Like you said, he is just a tiny student.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru-kṛpā: He is such a tiny student, and he comes to Your Divine Grace. In all respects, he should at least be a little bit submissive.
Prabhupāda: But we call them rascals. What is more insulting than...? We call them rascals. A tiny student.... A student, he is learning something. But "You are rascal. Nothing at all."
Prabhupāda: So this movement should be pushed very vigorously. And so far, we have become successful. And enemies will be always, as soon as there is something good. That is the way of material world. Even Kṛṣṇa had enemies, what to speak of us. Eh? So many enemies, but He was powerful; He killed all them. Nobody could kill Him, but there was attempt to kill Him from the very beginning of His birth. He had so many enemies. As soon as Kaṁsa heard that his sister is now newly married, but as soon as there was some foretelling, "Ah, you are taking care of your sister so nicely. The eighth child of this sister will kill you." "Oh, where is your child? Where is pregnancy?" Nothing. He became angry.
Prabhupāda: And these rascals are writing books, that "There is no need of book."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That happened. One swami said, "Now you.... Meditation means don't think of anything." So then one of our men at the meeting raised his hand and said, "Then why do we need you?" So he got very angry. He said, "If the mind should do nothing, what do we need you for?"
Prabhupāda: So what was his reply?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He told his men to usher our man out. His men got very agitated because there was no reply. He couldn't give a reply, so they asked our man to leave for disturbing the sleeping of the public.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, the whole world is rascal. They will manufacture and spoil time, their own time and others' time.
Bhūrijana: It's just the emphasis that was given to hari... to chanting. For myself, I know I was off track and I know that in my heart I built up an enmity toward your disciples and thinking that they..., that by their distributing books they were making people angry at Kṛṣṇa and...
Prabhupāda: That is real point. That is real point.
Prabhupāda: The gopīs got the information that Kṛṣṇa is coming from Dvārakā, so from Vṛndāvana they went to see Him. And when Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī met, that Rādhārāṇī lamented that Kṛṣṇa—He was the same Kṛṣṇa and the same Rādhārāṇī—so "this is not a good meeting place. So, if You come to Vṛndāvana, then I shall be happy." So it is inviting Kṛṣṇa to Vṛndāvana. That is the feeling of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Ratha-yātrā. He is inviting Kṛṣṇa to Vṛndāvana. So in Jagannātha Purī still the same feelings are there. Kṛṣṇa, Jagannātha, from the temple goes to Guṇḍicā. So, Lakṣmī is angry that "Kṛṣṇa is leaving me, He has gone to Vṛndāvana." So she was, she is punishing. That is called Herā-pañcamī. Punishing the servants of Kṛṣṇa. The maidservants of Lakṣmī chastising them, threatened them, "Why without permission?" So they, out of very fearful condition, offering their respect to Lakṣmī, "Mother, you don't be sorry (indistinct), we are (indistinct)." So this, this is the play performed, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu associates they saw, and they enjoyed very much when the maidservant of Lakṣmī was slapping the servant of Viṣṇu. That is mentioned Caitanya-caritāmṛta. All the servants arrested, brought before Lakṣmī, and they are punished. But they came to invite Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī and other gopīs. And actually they do not go at that time. But this Ratha-yātrā ceremony means Kṛṣṇa is coming from Dvārakā to Kurukṣetra. This is the history of Ratha-yātrā.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) This is too much.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even you were challenging their gurus. That they get very angry at. Sataji will always tell me, "I like your Prabhupāda very much. But he is always criticizing all of our gurus."
Rāmeśvara: Like Ramakrishna and this cheater magician.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "He calls them cheaters, rascals, rogues, in public." At all the pāṇḍāls you used to do that. Oh, they couldn't stand it.
Hari-śauri: That man that stopped me in the street...
Prabhupāda: What can I say? Kṛṣṇa says. I am simply a child, repeating the words of Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you always tell them that. "It is not what I'm saying; Kṛṣṇa is saying." But that gets them even angrier.
Prabhupāda: We are Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are obligated to say like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That makes them even more angry.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Actually Kṛṣṇa says: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15)—finished. They cannot bring any defamation. We can say in the court that we are simply repeating like parrot. That's all. We have pledged to become parrot of Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember one boy was living there for about three months, and you got very angry and told him that there were already enough monkeys in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Do not try to jump over like a monkey.
Rādhāvallabha: (break) The scientists have found some more brass pottery. So now they say that man first started using brass around thirty-five hundred years ago. They've announced this to the world.
Prabhupāda: Now they're not using?
Rādhāvallabha: No, they say that thirty-five hundred years ago is when man first started using brass. They've announced this to the world.
Prabhupāda: What we have to take lesson from this, huh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're still using it now. Does that mean man is still...
Rāmeśvara: They are convinced that man used to live in caves, and just recently he has been civilized.
Prabhupāda: So what is the effect of civilization? When they used to live in cave, they were hunting animals and eating. So you are doing the same thing. What civilization?
Hari-śauri: Once I was on saṅkīrtana and an old man came up and he was very, very angry. He was so angry he was almost going to hit me, and he was saying, "I'm seventy-three years old, and I have to work every day!" He stopped from his job to come over. And he said, "I'm seventy-three years old, and I still have to work. And here you are on the street, and you're doing nothing," like this, "and I'm so old and I still have work." He was so angry he was almost going to hit me. So envious.
Mādhavānanda: Sometimes they question, "How can you be happy? You don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't eat meat, and you don't gamble. What can you do?"
Prabhupāda: Did you not say that we have got something; the pleasure derived from all these things, that is very inferior. We have got pleasure of superior quality. Therefore we have been able to give it up. That is the fact. But you have no information of the superior pleasure. Therefore sticking to this inferior pleasure.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda needs a new passport with all the pages filled out. I wanted to get it in Fiji, but the embassy was on the other side of the island. So we'll try again Monday morning. I told him though that we've given our lives to preach the dharma of Bhārata-varṣa, and sometimes we become—I told him in a nice way, not in an angry way—sometimes we become very disenchanted and disenheartened when we see that Indians like yourself, they present unnecessary obstacles to our preaching mission.
Prabhupāda: That is sufficient insult. (laughter) That enraged him. You said Indian-givers. That offended him.
Prabhupāda: That is also tapasya. That is also tapasya. Just like we are prohibiting meat-eating. So in your country this is little troublesome. From the very beginning of his life he is, I mean to say, habituated to eat meat. The mother purchases powdered meat and mix with... I have seen it. And by force. So he has been trained up eating meat, and I say, "Don't eat meat." So therefore that is troublesome. And if he's serious, he must accept the order. That is tapasya. Tapasya means in diet, in practice, in behavior, in dealing, and so on, so on. Everything there is tapasya. That is all described. Mental tapasya, bodily tapasya, and what is called? Word? Just like vāco-vegam, this is tapasya. You cannot talk nonsense. You want to talk something nonsense, but according to... So they don't talk nonsense. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvar... If you talk, you must talk about Kṛṣṇa. That is tapasya. "Śāstra has ordered me not to talk loosely anything, only talk of Kṛṣṇa." So if he does that, that is tapasya. Tapasya in the matter of words. Tapasya in connection with body. Tapasya in connection with mind. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegam. One has become angry and he wants to express it by beating or something doing very..., but tapasya will restrict him.
Rādhāvallabha: They get angry if we tell them that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, means they are rascal. When there is argument between you and me, if one becomes angry, that means he's a rascal. That is the proof. He cannot reply anymore. He has become angry. That is his defeat. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye. Mūrkha, a rascal is given good instruction, he'll be angry. So that is the proof that he's rascal. That is the proof. The example is given, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. Just like if you give milk, very nourishing food, to a human being, he'll get strength, but if you give to a snake, it will increase poison. So that is the proof that here is a snake. So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you give milk to a human child he'll grow healthy, and the same milk you give to a serpent child, it will grow poison.
Kīrtanānanda: Court jester.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Court jesters, yes. So there was a man, court jester, in Bengal. So the Muhammadan governor asked one Gopal Bhan, jester... He was jester in the court of Raja Krishna Chandra. So he asked him, Nawab, that "Gopal Bhan, I have heard you are very expert. Can you write a similar book, Mahābhārata, about my kingdom?" (laughter) "Oh, yes. Why not?" That is not... So he took some hundred thousands of rupees and again come: "Give me another ten thousand," "Another ten," in this way. "When the book will be finished? You have taken so much money." "It is just on the verge of being finished." Then, when he saw that no more money can be taken—"I have taken so much money"—then he one day said that "Now, sir, one information is very essential. That is wanted. You give me, and the Mahābhārata will be finished. Everything is there." "What is that information?" "Now, your wife, how many husband she has got?" "This is nonsense!" "Eh? Well, that is the main subject matter of Mahābhārata. Draupadī had five husbands, so you are such a great person, your wife must have at least one dozen. Otherwise how Mahābhārata will...?" "It is the subject matter of?" "Yes, that is the only subject matter, that Draupadī had five husbands. So you are such a big nawab, your wife must at least have one dozen. So give me their names." So he became very angry, "Don't talk all this nonsense."
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is bhakti, what is Vedānta. They do not know. Simply aspiring, all after women and money, that's all. First-class rogues. I know all of them, all first-class rogues, after money and women. Beginning from Vivekananda. But they are so popular, if you say openly... Satyam bruhet ma bruhet satyam apriyam(?). "You can speak truth, but don't speak which is unpalatable." But we speak in a different way. And directly we don't speak. People will be angry. They're already fools and rascals.
Prabhupāda: Not for beauty rest. (laughter)
Devotee (4): There's a kind of pain also, like when your false ego, when somebody tells you to do something or yells at you or gives you instruction. We all have this propensity to try and lord it over. When that's being denied, we feel a sense of pain, we feel like something, you know, dejected in our service. The tendency is to want to be angry...
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to be trained up under proper spiritual master. You cannot work whimsically. Then it will not help.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in Vedic civilization they keep, they have more than one wife. So what is the use of killing? Why one should kill? We find from the history, Dhruva Mahārāja's mother and stepmother, there were some critical words, and Dhruva Mahārāja became very, very angry. So the critical words and wives, different wives, that may be, but why one should cut off the head? Dhruva Mahārāja's mother said when Dhruva Mahārāja began to cry before the mother, mother said "My dear child, what can I do? How can I help you? Your father does not care for me, even as maidservant, what to speak of I am queen, I am the senior queen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He used to get very angry. He said, "I like your Prabhupāda very much, but why does he have to criticize all of our gurus?"
Prabhupāda: Now he is realizing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because at Cross Maidan you were speaking very boldly that all these others are cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are cheating. Is there any meaning that you pay so many dollars and take the mantra? Mantra is such a thing for business?
Prabhupāda: All future. (dog barking) Future, however pleasant. Post-dated check. Future, millions of years after, you'll get payment, take this check.
Rādhāvallabha: This dog is after everyone, it attacks everyone that comes by, and the lady gets angry when they try to get the dog away.
Prabhupāda: Is there fish here?
Prabhupāda: Even, say, hundred years ago, that Girish Chandra Ghosh, he wanted to introduce theatrical performances, imitating the European theatrical performances, man and woman taking part. So he wanted to invite woman artist. Not a single woman joined. Who will go to public stage to dance, respectable girl? They'll never. That is hundred years. I am speaking, say, about forty years ago. In one of our Dayanika(?) men, the girl was to be married, and it is the custom in India—the bridegroom's party comes to see the girl, whether she is right. Similarly, the girl's party goes to see the.... So they came to see one of my friend's daughter, and the daughter is very beautiful, rich man's daughter. So one of the bridegroom's party questioned, "You know how to dance?" That was the question to the girl: "You have learned something about dancing and singing?" So she was my friend's daughter, my, that friend, Mukunda Mati. His elder brother was there. He became very angry, that "This rascal is asking our daughter whether she knows dancing and singing."
Bhagavān: Several months ago we had a parents' meeting. Because on account of this man Moon, there was much agitation about groups taking young children away. So we had a very nice meeting with prasādam and slides, and one of the parents was saying that "We want to be angry at you, but the problem is that you are all so nice that we cannot be angry."
Prabhupāda: One gentleman has joined, he has paid five thousand dollars. His whole family has joined.
Prabhupāda: So the result was all of them became without passing stool. So the king could understand there is some offense. So... Because formerly the kings were saintly persons. He asked all his men, "What you have done?" Then the girl said, "Father, I have done something." Then he made this plea that, "Kindly excuse this girl... Out of ignorance..." He was very angry, that Cyavana Muni. His attitude was always angry. Then all of them became very much aggrieved. Then he asked, "Whether your girl is married?" King could understand that "He wants to marry my daughter. Otherwise, why he's inquiring." And he was so old... I have got my skin still tight. All loose.
Prabhupāda: They dipped down in a certain lake. In this way, he became a very beautiful young man. Then for soma-yajña, his father-in-law, the daughter's father came. He came. So he was surprised, "How is that? My daughter is with another young man?" He became angry. "My dear daughter, what is this? You are defaming your husband's family and my family." He began to chastise like that. And just see. Because he sees that "I got my daughter married with old Cyavana. How is that, with a young man?" Just see. Condemned like anything. And she was laughing. She knew that "I have not changed my husband. A change of body." Then she said, "My dear father, don't be angry. He's your real son-in-law. He has become now young by treatment." Then he was very pleased and embraced his daughter, that "You are so nice." This is Vedic civilization. Even one has got old, going to die husband, she cannot change. This is the chastity.
Interviewer: Are you getting any opposition from the church?
Prabhupāda: No. That is very favorable. No. Otherwise, it was impossible. At least in America they have never prevented me. But in Europe especially in England and Germany, they, the Christian group, they are little angry with me. But so far America, they are very liberal. They never put any impediments in my movement. Rather, government appreciates. The appreciated one point, that the American younger generation, they have become addicted to this LSD, intoxication, and they have spent millions of dollars to stop this, but they could not. But they are surprised that as soon as this LSD man becomes my disciple, he gives up immediately.
Prabhupāda: As you think, you can do. But I wanted to engage in farm work, in digging.
Yaśodānandana: Yes, that is his propensity. Actually it's a fact when he was with me I would try to teach him Īśopaniṣad and your purports, which are so clear and simple, but after three or four times explaining the same thing, he would become angry to receive the instruction.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He is meant for śūdra's work.
Prabhupāda: Give them nice prasādam by which they are attracted. It doesn't matter khicuṛi, puri, kacuri, lāḍu. Whatever they are attracted, we must give. Whatever that will attract them. That I want. Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Don't waste, give them nice palatable foodstuff. Give them one finest kacuri, one nice samosā, two puris, they will be very glad. Make very, very, nice prasādam. What is this rubbish, the dog cannot eat even? They have done a great mistake, all rascals. I am very angry. I say that if you have got no money, I'll spend, I will give you money. Why should you make such tenth class, and no food at all. It is to be thrown away. Simply waste of grains and energy. Engage nice professional cook, prepare nice foodstuff. I shall spend for that if you have no money. Gentlemen who are coming immediately should be offered some prasādam. "Please come here, take: puri, kacuri, samosā." Arrangement should be like that. The doctors came, he comes out of love, but there is no prasādam. Huh? What is this? The doctor comes, but we couldn't supply him prasādam at 12 o'clock.
Prabhupāda: (angry) I don't say Caitanya, I say Kṛṣṇa. Why you misunderstand? Don't talk like that. I don't say that. Why you have misunderstood? Don't disturb in that... I don't say Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Why you are bringing Caitanya? You are saying. I say what Kṛṣṇa says, you do that.
Guest (1): Yes. That is the truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Subash Bose was always against this nonviolent means. That is the difference of opinion with Gandhi. So he wanted to capture the whole power, and he captured, but Gandhi became so angry upon him that he did not attend the Congress when Subash Bose was elected President. Then other lieutenants-Subash Bose also was Gandhi's student—so when others planned, requested that "Gandhiji is not happy. You better resign." So he resigned, and tactfully he went out of India. He knew that "So long Gandhi is there, my policy... I'll not be able because there will be..."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: Then... Then...
Prabhupāda: No, let him. That you have to practice, how to use kāma, krodha. That is described by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Kāma means you have a strong desire to do something. That is kāma. So convert it, this kāma desire, for Kṛṣṇa's activities. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. And persons who are envious of the devotees, you become angry upon them. You have got this quality, kāma, krodha, lobha, but you can utilize it. Just like Hanumān. He became very angry, and he set fire in the Lanka. Unless one is very angry, he cannot do that. But that krodha was applied to the demon. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. So we can utilize kāma, krodha, moha, bewilderment. When we cannot find out a bhakta, then we should be bewildered. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. So therefore bhakti process means that everything has to be purified. Krodha, Hanumān's krodha to set fire Laṅkā, it is purified krodha. But they cannot understand the krodha, how it is purified. But krodha can be purified. When it is bhakta-dveṣi-jane... Those who are envious of God and His devotees, upon them you should be always angry. "No, I have become a bhakta. I cannot become..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed by His example. He said, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. But when Nityānanda Prabhu was injured, He became so angry, He immediately said, "Bring my cakra. I shall kill the Jagāi-Mādhāi." So at that time He's not tṛṇād api sunīcena.
Prabhupāda: Big number, as big as possible. My Guru Mahārāja, he had magazines in six languages: English, Hindi, Bengali, Oriya, Assamese, and one Bengali daily. So if our men complained that "Such and such men are not giving their subscription, so, what we can do? Stop the supply?" Oh, he would become very angry. He asked them, "Are you commercial-hired fools? No! Supply free!" He used to say like that. He was asking, "Whether we shall stop supply? The subscription is not coming." So immediately he became angry: "Are you commercial-hired? If he's not giving price, supply him free." That was his policy. So less perfect or..., try to see how many numbers of books.
Prabhupāda: They... They...
Rāmeśvara: Very fat, white beard. Christians got very angry. They think that Santa Claus is Christian, so we are impersonating to take advantage. But we were arguing that "This Santa Claus is not Christian or Jewish. He is devotee of God." Originally Santa Claus is a saint, Saint Nicholas. So we were arguing, "How can you claim exclusive property of Christian? He is a servant of God. You are using this Santa Claus..."
Prabhupāda: Even Americans use also.
Prabhupāda: But I don't think your mother was any time angry upon me.
Prabhupāda: It is closed?
Hari-śauri: Yes. The year before they got kicked out, I was distributing magazines at one political rally. The Prime Minister came to Perth. And when he came there all the farmers came, and they were so angry, they were throwing rotten eggs at him and tin cans and all kinds of things.
Prabhupāda: The farmers.
Hari-śauri: Yeah.
Rāmeśvara: They devalued the Australian dollar very much. The Australian dollar used to be worth maybe...
Prabhupāda: More than American dollar.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Caitanya Mahāprabhu... No. We are prepared to take you also. Why not? It is not difficult. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when accepted Jagāi-Mādhāi, so Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddharilo tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So the evidence is not that, by words. But evidence... So how? How He accepted? When Jagāi-Mādhāi, after injuring Nityānanda, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very angry that "I shall kill them!" So at that time Nityānanda begged, "Sir, You have promised not to take weapon in this avatāra. So excuse them." So as soon Nityānanda Prabhu said like that, both the brothers fell down on the feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "Sir. Excuse us. We have done wrong. So please deliver us. We are most sinful." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You are sinful. That is not disqualification. But if you want My āśraya, then you stop this sinful life. No more. Whatever you have done, that's all right. I excuse you. But no more." So they said, āra nare bāp: "Bas, whatever we have done." So this is wanted. But if we continue to take shelter of Caitanya Mahāprabhu or His representative, at the same time continue our sinful activities, that is not desirable.
Gargamuni: I told him this. He was interested. He was. But he told me, "Under the present..." The CIA used to give money to certain groups to stop Communism, he said, but recently they have been under investigation for this, so he said it would be very dangerous for them to do such a thing now. But he said he would talk it over. Since then, though, I have not met him. This was at the time when we were called CIA in Calcutta, when it came in the papers. I went to them for advice because they also became very much upset because just before that, the Consulate with his wife came to Māyāpur and saw all of our activities. They were very impressed. And they printed this in the newspaper, trying to show that the Consulate General was also an agent along with Bhavānanda. So he became very angry. He became very angry that they should try to make this up. He said, "Actually I had personally... My wife wanted to come, but I was not so much interested. But because my wife came, I came also. But I don't see why they are trying to link me along with your society as CIA." He said, "This is very bad." And from what I know, they made a formal complaint to the Home Minister of West Bengal, the Home Secretary.
Prabhupāda: That is good.
Gurukṛpā: They are so... They have no brain to even understand this. You cannot talk to them.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to do. Otherwise there is no meaning of preacher. Most thankless task. We want to save them, and they accuse us. My Guru Mahārāja used to give that example: A boy is flying kite, and he's going like this. He's just come on the edge of the roof. He is going to fall down. And somebody says, "Hey! What are you doing this for?" (shouts:) "Why you are checking me? Oh, my kite is gone, gone. I have gone back." This is going on. If you want to save them, they will accuse you that "My kite-flying is disturbed. Don't do this." "And why you are. Why...? You'll fall down." "Never mind. That is my business. Why you are checking me?" This example was given by my Guru Mahārāja. You want to save him. Who is a gentleman who will not save him? He is falling down next moment. That is natural. But he is angry. "Why you have checked my kite-flying?" So it is a different type of civilization, a different style of life. If you want to introduce they will accuse you, so many, like madmen. And still we have to do. That is preaching. You cannot expect very smooth life in preaching.
Guest (1): Had to go.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.
Prabhupāda: And what is the...? "Do you believe that the Hare Kṛṣṇas, they are in...?"
Hari-śauri: "Would you believe three Hare Kṛṣṇas dressed in Santa Claus suits?"
Prabhupāda: "...in Santa Claus?"
Gargamuni: I think people were more amused than they were angry.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is amusing.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is philosophy. Philosophy is the science of science. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). The science of science.
- īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
- anādir ādir govindaḥ
- sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
- (Bs. 5.1)
So try it, to educate these rascal, world of rascals. Take it that this world of rascals. Don't give them any credit. Unless he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, don't give any credit. Then you become a rascal. Just like the same example as it is given in the SB.., that one dog, one camel, one ass, one hog is praising a lion. So does it mean the lion is not animal? He may be a big, rascal animal, and he is praised by these small rascals. So here the big rascal is being praised by small rascal. That's all. But they're all rascals. We are seeing the praising group and the man who is praised—both of them are rascals. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). We don't give them any credit. They may be angry upon us that we do not give anyone credit. But that is our business. We take them all rascals.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People have become poor, poor materially and spiritually. Actually it's clear that the devotees are becoming wealthy materially and spiritually, and that is one of the reasons that these demons are so angry—because they see our opulence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are surprised (laughs) that "These people do not do anything, and they're living so opulent?" They inquired in Los Angeles. You know that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Āra. So these things will be accepted by kṛṣṇa-bhakta, etaj jñānam. So whatever Kṛṣṇa has said, that is knowledge, vidyā. Everything nonsense. Therefore so boldly we say, "All rascaldom." Never mind. That's a fact. That is a fact. Anyone... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Anyone who is not devotee of Kṛṣṇa, bhagavad-bhakta-useless. Jaḍa-bidyā jato māyāra vaibhava, jībake karaye gādhā. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said. By this so-called material education, one is already gādhā, go-khara, dehātma-buddhi, and he becomes still more, another staunch gādhā. Now, if you speak the straight truth they'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi. But this is fact.
Pradyumna: You say that. You get so angry at seeing it, you...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. That is Narottama Ṭhākura's instruction. You must be very angry, those who are against God and devotee, very angry. Utilize your anger for them. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. That anger is service. Kṛṣṇa-sebā kāmārpaṇe. For Kṛṣṇa's service one should be mad. Kāma-krodha should be given up, but a bhakta does not give up. Utilize it. A bhakta should be very much for kamut(?) serving Kṛṣṇa. And he must utilize his anger for the bhakta-dveṣi, those who are not devotee. Kṛṣṇa-sebā kāmārpaṇe krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. We have nothing to give up like Māyāvādī. Kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. Mātsarya may... That has to be... A bhakta cannot be envious. If a bhakta is angry upon them, that is not envious. That is for good. A bhakta should not be envious. Otherwise how he can preach? He's merciful. Even if he's angry, it is mercy. Therefore this mātsarya has no use for bhakta. Other things, they have use, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, not mātsarya. Mātsarya is very bad.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to educate them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ. The rascal people, they do not know how life is going on, and they are creating anarthas. Therefore vidvān, Vyāsadeva, vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. So this is the position. Mūrkhāṇām upadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. "If you try to advise rascal, he'll be angry."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And neither you can, because their stool is everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Strewn all over.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if you tell them to walk..., curb the dog, they get very angry: "Oh, you have insulted me." They demand that you respect their dog.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you ask him to take care of his dog, he feels insulted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Remember in the park? In Central Park we were walking. That woman was very angry.
Prabhupāda: Most uncivilized. So this will finish. This will not stay. It is already being finished by this Communist country. Only hope is this, if they want to be saved.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Wonderful Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Yes. If simply they appreciate that Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, their life will be successful. This very simple thing. A child can do it. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, there is no doubt. Let them admit only. They will be pushed forward in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I'll request only these big, big men that maintain this institution to attract intelligent persons from all over the world. And you do all nonsense, whatever you like, but maintain this. And if possible, after retirement come and do practical something. What is this nonsense? Andhā yathāndhair upa... What he will do? They are promising so many rascal things. What you will do? What you have got? Indira promised so many things. Bluffed. What she can do? Now she is, herself, Indira Gandhi. Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Īśa-trantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They want to do something. What happens? Gandhi, when he started nonviolence, "Within one year" And he dragged for fifty years. Twenty years in Durban and thirty years in India. Could not do anything. If you say that Gandhi could not do anything, people will be angry.
Prabhupāda: That is the duty of ācārya. Otherwise he is not... Not that three dozen ācāryas in Māyāpur. Each one has a temple and a few dozen... Not few dozen—one dozen disciples. Bring some rice and eat. They are ācārya. That day I said that, khāi laya khasi bhaja,(?) then everybody became angry. Collecting some money, taking to the holy place, collecting fifty rupees and keeping twenty rupees and spending thirty rupees. This is... In this way they are making livelihood, ācāryas. They say, "Whatever is in our capacity, we are doing." The capacity means when they are speaking that the cockroach is as good a bird as the Garuḍa. Cockroach is also a bird and Garuḍa is also a bird.
Prabhupāda: Simply fighting. They are not peaceful. That's all. Where is peace? You'll be surprised. During gas scarcity the gas was being supplied in Honolulu. This was in our presence. So the gas supply, whatever they had, distributed, and they had one sign board, "No more gas." So next man was so angry that he shot him dead. Just see. He had no more gas; he cannot supply. He became so much infuriated that he shot him dead. This is the result of this modern motorcar civilization. He thought that "Gas will not be supplied. Then I am gone. I am finished. So kill this man." This is education. (Hindi) Provided we train at least some ideal men, everything can be done. Everything is there. There is no scarcity of knowledge in India. We have to simply take it and practically apply it, bas. (Hindi) We are not sentimental (laughs) religious group. Everything practical. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not like that, sentiment. Everything scientific, practical, for the good of the whole human society. Therefore I require that this must be pushed on for the whole human society, and naturally India also. (aside:) The prasādam arrangement is...? You give each item, one each... No, no, give me, give me, give... This is... Each item, you give one.
Prabhupāda: They'll be happy. They're suffering. (Hindi) Is that civilization? "You could not supply me petrol. I shot you." What is this? How much animalistic a human being can be. (aside:) Wake up. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣaḥ. The people are being educated to become too much lusty, and as soon as their lust is not fulfilled, they'll be angry. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. And the krodha was, anger was so intense that he killed another person. No consideration that "What he can do? The petrol is finished." He simply says, "Now my stock is finished." So therefore he should be killed?
Mr. Rajda: Now this information will.... I shall be interested to read from it.
Prabhupāda: Now immediately a vote should be formed. You cannot do independently. That will not be allowed, anything. In Bengali there is a word, pañce mili kare kārya, hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa(?): "If you do something, combined together, five men, then whether you are defeated or you are victorious, there is nothing to be shameful." Hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa. So you are doing everything independent. We do not like to interfere with your business. You become angry. So that should be stopped. You cannot be allowed. You'll be (indistinct). It has no meaning. (pause) What is that?
Ādi-keśava: So when someone becomes angry, that anger is frustration due to the fact that he experiences so many frustrations in the material world, and therefore he calls it void. He says, "Rather than experience the difficulty inherent in the temporality of the material world," instead he calls it void and says that it does not exist. Because it is causing so much distress because he cannot become satisfied in material existence, then he says...
Prabhupāda: Whether it has got any value? Whether such statement has any value?
Harikeśa: Whether such statement has any value?
Ādi-keśava: To say that it has no existence, that it is all void.
Prabhupāda: One, you... Talk on this point. Just like a small animal, rabbit. When he's attacked, he closes the eyes. He thinks, "There is nothing." Now he is devoured. So it is like that. He cannot adjust things, and "That is zero, bas." But that's not the fact. Hm? Simply by closing your eyes you want to avoid danger? Discuss on this.
Prabhupāda: Not gold coin. This copper coin, looking like gold.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you'd keep it banked with your mother, and if she ever was angry with you, you threatened.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Bring my money." The society was so nice, and everyone was happy, everyone. These Marwaris, especially, they are very good community. They... As family people, they know how to earn, how to become happy by family. I like these Marwaris.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they also feel at home...
Prabhupāda: They're vegetarian.
Prabhupāda: No, "try..." Actually prove. No, don't try.
Akṣayānanda: I'm doing it, actually, at the expense of... They get angry but...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of angry. It is not our...
Akṣayānanda: Just recently I sent about three or four of them out, and they all became...
Prabhupāda: If they want to live without any payment, let them go to Māyāpur. There is enough place. We don't deny that. But here, in the guestroom, they will occupy without any payment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. It's being investigated by a Congressional subcommittee in America now, Transcendental Meditation. But there's no individual parents getting angry because it doesn't change anything.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: The... Kṛṣṇa has become everything. After Brahmā has stolen the original cowherds boys and cows and calves, Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself. So on account of Kṛṣṇa's expansion, the cowherdsmen got a special attraction. First of all they were angry. The cowherdsmen were on the top of the hill. They did not like to come down. But on account of Kṛṣṇa, the boys were very, very attracted, and they immediately come down with special affection. Is it explained?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning they were angry that the cows were being attracted by the calves, but when they came down from up the hill, they were themselves attracted by their sons, and therefore they embraced.
| Page Title: | Angry (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 05 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=179, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 179 |