Prabhupāda: It is very, very difficult for them. To give up intoxication, especially in the Western countries . . . that Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland, when one of my Godbrother went to London for preaching, so Lord Zetland said, "Can you make me a brāhmin?" And then he said: "Yes, why not? You have to give up these things: no illicit sex, no intoxication." He said: "Oh, it is impossible. For us, it is impossible." So actually, these four prohibitory rules is impossible for these rascals.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They would rather die than give them up, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the . . . even our men, after so much training, they're also falling down. It is so difficult thing. Actually, it is the most difficult thing.
Bhagavān: The path down at the lake very big?
Prabhupāda: (japa)
Bhagavān: Would you like to walk down by the lake, or is this . . .?
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is all right. In India, also, although they are vegetarian, they cannot give up smoking even bīḍī. They cannot give up chewing pān. You see? This is very difficult task. I was thinking when I first came that as soon as I propose these things, because I have got experience that Lord Zetland said: "It is impossible," what they . . . they'll accept? And I'll have to go back again. But I did not make any compromise. Just like other rascal yogīs and svāmīs, they say: "Yes, yes. You can eat whatever you like. You can do whatever . . . you practice nose-pressing, that's all. And give me my fees. Then you'll learn . . . (indistinct) . . ." This is not possible.
Bhagavān: When you had your talk several years ago with the professor in Russia, he made the point, when you were discussing about the regulative principles, that if you follow these principles, then your life becomes very simple, and if you don't follow these principles, life becomes very complicated. He appreciated that one point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will appreciate. Our . . . anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Without anartha-nivṛtti . . . anartha-nivṛtti means stopping all unwanted things. Anartha. Anartha means which does not give us any profit, and unnecessarily we are accustomed. Suppose we do not take any intoxicant. So what is our inconvenience? But people are spending millions and millions of dollars only for smoking. Therefore it is useless, anartha. But they cannot give it up. And condition is that without anartha-nivṛtti, there cannot be attachment for God.
- ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā
- tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā tataḥ rucis
- athāsaktis tato bhāva . . .
- sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ
- (CC Madhya 23.14-15)
These are the steps. So after anartha-nivṛtti, one is firmly fixed up in devotional service. And if the anarthas are disturbing him, then he's not fixed up. He'll fall down. He'll fall down. That risk is already there. So these people are so much accustomed to this anartha, and they cannot give it up.
Bhagavān: What is the best way to gradually get them detached?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bhagavān: The best way to gradually get them detached?
Prabhupāda: Bhajana-kriyā. Therefore bhajana-kriyā, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), association with devotees and stick to the devotional program. Just like devotional program we have got. Bhajana-kriyā. This is called bhajana-kriyā. One cannot be slack in the process of devotional service. Then it will be . . . vidhi-mārga, the regulative principles: chant sixteen rounds, rise early in the morning, have maṅgala-ārātrika, read books, take your bath—these are the process. Bhajana-kriyā. Bhajana means devotional service, and kriyā . . . the yogīs, they call kriyā-yoga.