Pradyumna:
- ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ
- punar āvartino 'rjuna
- mām upetya tu kaunteya
- punar janma na vidyate
- (BG 8.16)
"From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again."
Prabhupāda: This is subject. That people are going to the higher planetary systems, that is already known—not this process. But there is another process how we can be elevated. So ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ: and even if you go to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, where people live for millions and millions of years . . . Brahma's one day, his twelve hours, you cannot calculate, it is so big number of years. So Kṛṣṇa says that if you go to the Brahmaloka, still you have to suffer. Simply your suffering will be stopped, mām upetya tu kaunteya dukhalayam . . . what is that?
Pradyumna:
- mām upetya tu kaunteya
- punar janma na vidyate
Prabhupāda: Then? Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam . . . where is that?
Pradyumna: Ah.
- mām upetya punar janma
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
Prabhupāda: Hmm. What is the meaning?
Pradyumna: "After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogīs in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection."
Prabhupāda: This is the highest perfection. You have to go to Kṛṣṇa.
Mrs. Williams: So when you have had your suffering in various forms and through various lives, you then reach that . . .
Prabhupāda: No, not that.
Mrs. Williams: Not that. Not that.
Prabhupāda: Not that. You have to prepare yourself to go there. Not that because you have suffered so much, automatically you'll go there. No, no. Not like that. Unless you endeavor for going to Kṛṣṇa, there is no possibility. That is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (SB 1.5.18):
- tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
- na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
Human life is meant for trying for that thing which he has not achieved by wandering up and down. So a living entity is wandering up and down, sometimes in the higher planetary systems or lower planetary systems, sometimes rich, sometimes poor, sometimes this, sometimes cat, sometimes dog, sometimes demigod. In this way he is suffering. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). You understand Bengali?
Mr. Williams: (devotee) You understand the Sanskrit? You do?
Prabhupāda: In this way a living entity is wandering, but by fortune if he gets in touch guru-kṛṣṇa, a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, guru, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa—because Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart—then he gets the seed of devotional service. And if he cultivates that devotional service, then he goes back. This is the path. Not that because one has suffered so much, therefore automatically. No, not like that.