Prabhupāda: Well, impersonal philosophers are more dangerous than the atheist.
Dr. Patel: That you think.
Prabhupāda: No, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says.
Dr. Patel: Let's not discuss about this, not go into it.
Prabhupāda: He said, veda na maniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Vedāśraya bauddha-vāda nāstika ke adhika. We accept atheist, one who does not believe in the Vedas. Therefore we have rejected the Buddha philosophy. They could not exist in India. But those who are preaching atheism through Vedas, impersonal, they are more dangerous.
Dr. Patel: That impersonal preaching is not atheism.
Indian man: For example?
Prabhupāda: Anyone impersonalist—"God has no form." There are so many rascals. So he has got form to speak against God, and God has no form. This is going on all over the world. He speaks against the God, that "God is not a person." So he is a person, and God is not person. Just see their foolishness. He is made by God, and he is a person, and who made him, he is not a person. This is foolishness.
Indian man: Yes, there's a good sense in it.
Prabhupāda: Everything... But therefore they are senseless, that "I am person, my father is person..."
Indian man: No, my father is not my person.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is understood that I am person, my father is person, his father is person, and the supreme father is not a person. Just see. If the supreme father is not a person, then wherefrom these personal fathers came here? Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.25). "Mām"—this is person. The mūḍhas cannot understand that the supreme father is a person. Therefore Arjuna, at the..., when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he declared that "It is very, very difficult..." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. "...to understand Your personality. It is very, very difficult." Arjuna has said. And he has accepted Him as person, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam: "You are eternally person." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam, puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam ādyam (BG 10.12). These things are there. The real understanding is there. And he said, "This is... This is accepted by Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala." Svayaṁ caiva: "And You are also speaking." Then where is the question of imperson? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. And therefore He, Kṛṣṇa, says bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānvān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19): "You are person; I surrender unto You"—this knowledge comes after many, many births of this impersonalist. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā: "That great mahātmā is very rare." So one who believes and accepts the Supreme as person, he immediately becomes a mahātmā. Otherwise he remains durātmā.
Dr. Patel: Small ātmā. He's a mahātmā; he's a small ātmā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: Who believe in that?
Prabhupāda: Believe... Not only believe, but convinced, "Yes, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)." Then he is mahātmā.
Dr. Patel: Everything is Vāsudeva. There is nothing excepting God. In that way there is no māyā because māyā is also a part of God.
Indian man: In bhakti you surrender. Then you get the jñāna.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: After bhakti you get the jñāna. (Hindi with Prabhupāda) We mūḍhas, we go on argument, but unless and until we mūḍhas are convinced, we will remain mūḍhas. We can't help it.
Prabhupāda: There are big mūḍhas who are never convinced.