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| <div id="compilation"> | | <div id="compilation"> |
| <div id="facts"> | | <div id="facts"> |
| {{terms|"Any location here particular"|"Now the constables broke up a sankirtana carried on by Caitanya's friends"}} | | {{terms|"Any location here particular"|"Now the constables broke up a ''saṅkīrtana'' carried on by Caitanya's friends"}} |
| {{notes|}} | | {{notes|}} |
| {{compiler|MadhuGopaldas}} | | {{compiler|MadhuGopaldas|Rishab}} |
| {{complete|ALL}} | | {{complete|ALL}} |
| {{first|06Jul11}} | | {{first|06Jul11}} |
| {{last|06Jul11}} | | {{last|15Jul12}} |
| {{totals_by_section|BG=0|SB=0|CC=0|OB=0|Lec=0|Con=1|Let=0}} | | {{totals_by_section|BG=0|SB=0|CC=0|OB=0|Lec=0|Con=1|Let=0}} |
| {{total|1}} | | {{total|1}} |
| {{toc right}} | | {{toc right}} |
| [[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]] | | [[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]] |
| [[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1974]] | | [[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1967]] |
| | [[Category:Questions On... Caitanya, His Associates]] |
| | [[Category:Prabhupada Speaks - Room Conversations, 1966 - 1977]] |
| | [[Category:Prabhupada Speaks - Room Conversations, 1967]] |
| | [[category:Prabhupada Speaks - Answering Questions, 1967]] |
| | [[Category:Prabhupada Speaks - in USA, San Francisco]] |
| </div> | | </div> |
| <div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2> | | <div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2> |
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| <div class="heading">Yes. It is called the Śrīvāsa house. Yes. Because in India the village houses they have got some compound. Not that only fixed house. Every house has got a compound. | | <div class="heading">Yes. It is called the Śrīvāsa house. Yes. Because in India the village houses they have got some compound. Not that only fixed house. Every house has got a compound. |
| </div> | | </div> |
| <span class="link">[[Vanisource:Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco|Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Hayagrīva: How old is Caitanya now?</p> | | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: He was about...</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Sixteen?</p>
| | <mp3player>https://vanipedia.s3.amazonaws.com/clip/670405LC-SAN_FRANCISCO_clip03.mp3</mp3player> |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Fifteen, sixteen, like that. Yes. Fifteen, sixteen. Yes, you ask me questions, any about that.</p>
| | <span class="link">[[Vanisource:Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco|Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;"> |
| <p>Hayagrīva: That's His saṅkīrtana organization, that first scene.</p>
| | Hayagrīva: How old is Caitanya now? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: And from this first comes...</p>
| | Prabhupāda: He was about . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the beginning of...</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: A scene of Nivas...</p>
| | Hayagrīva: Sixteen? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: At Śrīnivāsa's house.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Are the people mainly young people like Himself?</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Fifteen, sixteen, like that. Yes. Fifteen, sixteen. Yes, you ask me questions, any, about that. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes, they were all young.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Or are they older brāhmaṇas?</p>
| | Hayagrīva: That's His ''saṅkīrtana'' organization, that first scene. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Older, only these...</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Only the three, yes.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Yes. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Haridāsa, Śrīnivāsa, and Advaita. They were taking part. Otherwise, all, they were young friends, yes. Young boys. No girls. That is not the system in India. (laughs) Yes. Now when the second scene, mainly their movement was going on and it was becoming popular. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that simply by the saṅkīrtana movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything. So the priest class brāhmaṇas they became very much dissatisfied that "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others..." Because according to Hindu society, except the brāhmaṇas... Especially in those days, only the brāhmaṇas were considered the highest in the society, and even the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they all calculated to, in the group of śūdras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone, the Muhammadans, the śūdras, the low class, the high class, the brāhmaṇas... He was amalgamating everyone. So these brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "He is making a disastrous movement! The prestige of the brāhmaṇas will go." So they became very much dissatisfied and they concluded that "We shall go to the magistrate and file our complaint that He is doing against Hindu religion and He's crying always 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa' loudly. The Lord is sleeping. He will be disturbed and there will be disaster, Lord being angry." In this way they filed complaint. Ask anything, questions.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Are there any of the characters listed up here among the brāhmaṇas who complained?</p>
| | Hayagrīva: And from this first comes . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No. They complained... Characters... Ordinary brāhmaṇas.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Yes. All right. I can't think of anything there. That leads into the next scene, third scene.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the beginning of . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the next scene is that some constables came and during the Hari-saṅkīrtana, they broke the mṛdaṅgas that "You have disobeyed the magistrate order that... So you cannot do it." So as the constables, they do some violence or assault, so they did that. And after the constables went away Caitanya Mahāprabhu was informed. He came. He saw that the mṛdaṅgas are broken and everything is strewn away so Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw. He decided, "All right. Now we shall organize a civil disobedience movement. Now tomorrow we shall organize thousands and thousands of people with mṛdaṅgas and we shall approach the magistrate house." So He... Next scene... What is that next scene?</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Now the constables broke up a saṅkīrtana carried on by Caitanya's friends. Any location here particular?</p>
| | Hayagrīva: A scene of Nivās . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes. It is called the Śrīvāsa house.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: On a house. At someone's home.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: At Śrīnivāsa's house. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Because in India the village houses they have got some compound. Not that only fixed house. Every house has got a compound.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: All right. Very good. Now the fourth scene, this is the meeting with the magistrate.</p>
| | Hayagrīva: Are the people mainly young people like Himself? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Fourth scene. That...</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: They march to the magistrate.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Yes, they were all young. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Magistrate house and in the courtyard all the people, they were very much enthusiastic.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Several thousand.</p>
| | Hayagrīva: Or are they older ''brāhmins''? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Several thousand. And they were loudly chanting and meeting Lord... So when the chanting was going on the Chand Kazi appeared and there was discussion between... Chand Kazi was also very great scholar, and Lord Caitanya was also scholar. So Chand Kazi, just to pacify them, he addressed Caitanya, "My dear boy, You happen to be my nephew. You are my sister's son. Why You are so angry upon Your maternal uncle?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu got the clue that he was prepared to make compromise. So He also mildly replied, "Yes, you are My uncle, I know. So because you are My uncle, therefore I have come to your house. How is that when the nephew comes that you do not receive Him? In an angry mood you go upstairs?" So in this way, the situation was pacified. Then they sat together and there was a very learned discussion between the two. Because Hindus are always against cow killing. So he was Muhammadan. They were killing cow.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Chand...</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Older, only these . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Chand Kazi.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Muhammadan.</p>
| | Hayagrīva: Only the three, yes. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Muhammadan. Chand Kazi was a... Maulana Chand Kazi. His name is Maulana Chand Kazi. He was a great scholar in the Koran scripture. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu first of all asked the Chand Kazi, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are eating your mother and father?" (laughs) So he could understand that He was attacking the cow killing process. So he said, "Well, You are just trying to criticize our cow killing, but in Your Vedic literature also I have seen that cow killing is allowed in sacrifice." Then Lord Caitanya said, "Yes. That is not killing. That is rejuvenating. That is not killing." The sacrifice of cow recommended in the Vedic śāstra means that the brāhmaṇas prove how powerful was Vedic mantra that it could give a new life to the old cows and bulls. So then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "Such kind of learned brāhmaṇas and Vedic yajña is not possible in this age. Therefore cow killing..." Not cow killing. "Sacrifice by offering cow, sacrifice by offering horse, and..." Aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ ([[Vanisource:CC Adi 17.164|CC Adi 17.164]]). And sannyāsaṁ pala paitṛkam. Sannyāsa means to become in the renounced order of life. And these five things. One thing is sacrifice by offering cow. Second, sacrifice by offering horse. Third, to accept renounced order of life. And fourth, offering ablutions... Or what is called? Offering some, something to the forefathers? What is called?</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Oblations.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Haridāsa, Śrīnivāsa and Advaita. They were taking part. Otherwise, all, they were young friends, yes. Young boys. No girls. That is not the system in India. (laughs) Yes. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this saṅkīrtana movement."</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: All right. Now I don't have any questions there. I probably wouldn't deal quite at such length about the meat. I don't see how that... The main thing was about the saṅkīrtana, the chanting.</p>
| | Now when the second scene, mainly their movement was going on and it was becoming popular. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that "Simply by the ''saṅkīrtana'' movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything." So the priest class, ''brāhmins'', they became very much dissatisfied that, "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others . . ." |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Chanting, and it was mitigated, and he allowed. First of all, there was objection, then there was civil disobedience, then when they compromised, the Chand Kazi allowed the movement. This is the whole idea.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: The fifth scene is renunciation of household life.</p>
| | Because according to Hindu society, except the ''brāhmins'' . . . especially in those days, only the ''brāhmins'' were considered the highest in the society, and even the ''kṣatriyas, vaiśyas'', they all calculated to . . . in the group of ''śūdras''. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone—the Muhammadans, the ''śūdras'', the low class, the high class, the ''brāhmins'' . . . He was amalgamating everyone. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: This is at age...? This is considerably later then. This is about ten years later.</p>
| | So these ''brāhmins'', they took objection, "He is making a disastrous movement. The prestige of the ''brāhmins'' will go." So they became very much dissatisfied, and they concluded that, "We shall go to the magistrate and file our complaint that He is doing against Hindu religion, and He's crying always '''Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa'' loudly. The Lord is sleeping. He will be disturbed and there will be disaster, Lord being angry." In this way they filed complaint. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No. Renunciation... Now this Chand Kazi, he was... This movement when He was about 20 years old. Do you follow?</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: The saṅkīrtana was when He was around 20. The Kazi.</p>
| | Ask anything, questions. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: The saṅkīrtana was going on.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: When He was 16, 15.</p>
| | Hayagrīva: Are there any of the characters listed up here among the ''brāhmins'' who complained? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: But practically He started this saṅkīrtana movement vigorously from the age of 15 years. But when He was 20 years old, when the movement took very nice appearance, the brāhmaṇas complained. So this movement was about 20 years old when... Then renunciation...</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: He's 24 now.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: No. They complained . . . characters . . . ordinary ''brāhmins''. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Renunciation. So one day it so happened that instead of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya was chanting, "Gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī," instead of chanting "Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa." So He had a small school. The brāhmaṇas, generally they keep a small school which is called catuṣpaṭhī. (spells out) C-c-h-a-a-t-u-s-p-a-t-h-i. Catuṣpaṭhī, catuṣpaṭhī means a school where up to the four Vedas are taught. Grammar and religion and everything is taught there. In every village that was system. The brāhmaṇas should keep up a school like that. Students were all almost they were also of the same age. Some of them were fifteen years old, sixteen years old. So students came and saw Lord Caitanya was chanting "Gopī gopī," so they objected. They said, "Oh, why You are chanting 'gopī gopī'? Why should You not chant 'Kṛṣṇa'? 'Hare Kṛṣṇa'?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in His ecstasy because He was... In the beginning, His appearance is in the form of gopī, to love Kṛṣṇa. So He became very much angry, and because they were students, He wanted to chastise them. He took a stick. "You nonsense! What you are speaking? Go away!" So they fled away, but after that they organized. "Oh, how is that? Caitanya, He is... How He has become so big that He wants to beat us?" In this way they practically they were talking ill of Him. So He decided that "If I remain a householder, these people will not honor Me." Because in those days a sannyāsī was honored in the society very much. If a sannyāsī comes to your village or to a householder's house it was very... Still it is going on, although not so widely. But still 80% of the population in India, if they find out a sannyāsī they give all honor. So He decided that "Now I shall become a sannyāsī." So He happened to see Keśava Bhāratī, a sannyāsī of the Śaṅkara sampradāya, and He requested him that "You give Me sannyāsa." So He took sannyāsa from Keśava Bhāratī and He was assisted by Nityānanda, Murāri Gupta, and some other people. So this is His renunciation decision and acceptance of sannyāsa.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: How does He, How does He accept sannyāsī? I mean how does He...?</p>
| | Hayagrīva: Yes. All right. Now, I can't think of anything there. That leads into the next scene, third scene. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa, there is a ceremony. Just like we have got the initiation ceremony.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Did He have a spiritual master?</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the next scene is that some constables came, and during the ''hari-saṅkīrtana'', they broke the ''mṛdaṅgas'', that "You have disobeyed the magistrate orders that . . . so you cannot do it." So as the constables, they do some, I mean to say, what is called, violence or assault, so they did that. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: So He accepted spiritual... Not spiritual master, but a sannyāsa-guru. That is also master, but he's not spiritual master. But he's also considered as sannyāsa-guru, spiritual master who offers him sannyāsa. Just like myself, I took initiation from my Guru Maharaja, but I took sannyāsa from a Godbrother who is a sannyāsī. So my original guru is that spiritual master who initiated me, but he's also a śikṣā guru. Like that. Teacher. Then His renunciation of householder. He became sannyāsa. Now when He was, after taking sannyāsa, when He was going towards Vṛndāvana, He became always almost mad. So Nityānanda, He was with Him. When He saw that Lord Caitanya is in ecstasy, He misled Him just to... His plan was that "I shall take Lord Caitanya to the house of Advaita, and then I shall call His mother to see Him for the last time. If Caitanya goes away from this very point His mother will not be able to see Him." So out of sympathy He said, "Well, Śrīpāda Caitanya, this is not, this side is not Vṛndāvana. You go..." He just misdirected Him. So... And He sent one man to Advaita to receive Him that "He has taken sannyāsī, just try to make arrangement to receive Him. Then we shall meet." So when He came near the house of Advaita He saw that Advaita was waiting. So then He, I mean to say, came to His sense. "Oh, I am misled? I have come to Advaita's house? How is that Nityānanda? You showed Me this way Vṛndāvana." Then He said, "Oh, wherever You stay, that is Vṛndāvana." Now Advaita says, "All right, please come to my house." So he received Him and took Him there and sent news to His mother that "Your son has now taken sannyāsa. Now if you want to see Him for the last time please come and see." So in this way at Advaita's house He remained for some time. Say about a fortnight. And during that time, in the beginning, His mother came and His mother became so much sorry. That scene you have to describe very nicely. Mother seeing that her son has taken sannyāsa, no more He'll come to house. So (s)he was crying. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu fell on his(her) feet and begged, "My dear mother, yes. This body belongs to you. This body should have been engaged for your service. Unfortunately I've done a mistake. I have already taken sannyāsa. Please excuse Me." In this way. That scene described in the Dilip Kumar's house, that Caitanya is consulting mother, that is a false scene. The actual scene is that after accepting His sannyāsa, His mother came to see Him at Advaita's house. That is the...</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: Yes. Does she give Him her blessing finally?</p>
| | And after the constables went away Caitanya Mahāprabhu was informed. He came. He saw that the ''mṛdaṅgas'' have broken and the everything is strewn away, so Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw. He decided, "All right. Now we shall organize a civil disobedience movement. Now tomorrow we shall organize thousands and thousands of people with ''mṛdaṅgas'', and we shall approach the magistrate house." So He . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No. Of course, mother's blessings are always there. But the scene was that mother was crying and He was falling on the feet and His mother was very sorry that He had very beautiful hair. Now it is all cut off. In this way, the scene is very pathetic. So in this way, after remaining at Advaita's house, His mother was asking Him through Advaita, "Let Him remain for some time." Then He consulted "Mother, now just you think over that I have taken sannyāsa. And if I remain in this way, leaving My own family, and if I leave another family, do you think this is very nice for a sannyāsī? So give Me permission to go away." Then mother agreed and other friends like Advaita and Śrīnivāsa requested His mother that "You give Him permission." Then (s)he said, "Yes, I have to give Him permission because He has already accept sannyāsa. If somebody blames Him, blasphemy, that is also not good. So my last request is that He may make His headquarter at Jagannātha Purī so that... Because people generally go to Jagannātha Purī, so I shall be able at least to know about Him, how He is faring there. That is my last request." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu at once accepted. "My dear mother, I shall always stay in Jagannātha Purī, and sometimes I may come to Bengal also to take bath in the Ganges. So there will be meeting. Now let Me go." So in this way they departed and Caitanya Mahāprabhu for the last time saw His friends and mother.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: I don't understand Nityānanda's motive. He's a friend. Nityānanda, He's a young friend of... Caitanya's.</p>
| | Next scene . . . what is that next scene? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Oh, Nityānanda was not actually a family brother. But He was, He is the incarnation of Baladeva, the elder brother of Kṛṣṇa. So He took His birth in a different family, but He joined Caitanya's movement as other friends joined. So He is considered the elder brother of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He's actually.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: He opposed Caitanya's sannyāsa.</p>
| | Hayagrīva: Now the constables broke up a ''saṅkīrtana'' carried on by Caitanya's friends. Any location here particular? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No, no. He did not oppose. He did not oppose. He simply, after Caitanya's acceptance of sannyāsa, He wanted simply that He should come to Advaita's place so that His mother may see Him for the last time. That was His plan.</p>
| | |
| <p>Hayagrīva: I see. (break)</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Yes. It is called the Śrīvāsa house. |
| | |
| | Hayagrīva: On a house. At someone's home. |
| | |
| | Prabhupāda: Yes. Because in India the village houses, they have got some compound. Not that only fixed house. Every house has got a compound. |
| | |
| | Hayagrīva: All right. Very good. Now there's the fourth scene, this is the meeting with the magistrate. |
| | |
| | Prabhupāda: Yes. Fourth scene. That . . . |
| | |
| | Hayagrīva: They march to the magistrate. |
| | |
| | Prabhupāda: Magistrate house, and in the courtyard all the people, they were very much enthusiastic. |
| | |
| | Hayagrīva: Several thousand. |
| | |
| | Prabhupāda: Several thousand. And they were loudly chanting and meeting Lord . . . so when the chanting was going on, the Chand Kazi appeared and there was discussion between . . . Chand Kazi was also very great scholar, and Lord Caitanya was also scholar. So Chand Kazi, just to pacify them, he addressed Caitanya, "My dear boy, You happen to be my nephew. You are my sister's son. Why You are so angry upon Your maternal uncle?" |
| | |
| | Caitanya Mahāprabhu got the clue that he was prepared to make compromise. So He also mildly replied: "Yes, you are My uncle, I know. So because you are My uncle, therefore I have come to your house. How is that when the nephew comes that you do not receive Him? In an angry mood you go upstairs?" So in this way, the situation was pacified. Then they sat together and there was very learned discussion between the two. Because Hindus are always against cow killing. So he was Muhammadan. They were killing cow. |
| | |
| | Hayagrīva: Chand . . . |
| | |
| | Prabhupāda: Chand Kazi. |
| | |
| | Hayagrīva: Muhammadan. |
| | |
| | Prabhupāda: Yes. Muhammadan. Chand Kazi was a . . . Maulana Chand Kazi. His name is Maulana Chand Kazi. He was a great scholar in the Quran scripture.</p> |
| </div> | | </div> |
| </div> | | </div> |
| </div> | | </div> |
