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Latest revision as of 17:09, 4 February 2024
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: So ideally it is the moral obligation of everyone to obey the moral command, but...
Prabhupāda: Not moral command—the supreme command. What is moral for you, it may be immoral for others. One man's food is another man's poison. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says to Yudhiṣṭhira, "Go and tell lies." That is moral. Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "What is this nonsense? You fight. Kill them." That is moral. So moral means to obey Kṛṣṇa's order, God's order. That is morality. You cannot create morality. You are imperfect. Your senses are imperfect. You do not know what is actually moral. Therefore we should implicitly, blindly follow the orders of Kṛṣṇa or His representative. That is moral.
Śyāmasundara: So the real categorical imperative is to obey the Supreme.
Prabhupāda: That is right. That is moral. Other things, all immoral.Prabhupāda: As soon as it is invented by individual men or society, this is all rascaldom. It has no value.
Śyāmasundara: He calls it the higher morality. Just like St. Paul or some great saint receives inspiration from God, and he blazes a new trail to morality in the society.
Prabhupāda: That is nice. Because he is God conscious, he can dictate what is real morality.
Śyāmasundara: He is speaking in this case of St. Paul.
Prabhupāda: So St. Paul, he is a sādhu. So our process is that sādhu, guru, śāstra. We have to accept everything through saintly persons, confirmed by the scripture, and described or explained by guru. Then it is perfect. The scriptures are already there, and we have to see how the scriptures are being followed by saintly persons. And if there is any difficulties, they should be explained by the spiritual master. Then it is confirmed: sādhu-śāstra-guru vākya (cittete koriyā aikya). Scriptures you cannot understand directly. Then you have to see how the scriptural injunctions are being followed by saintly persons. Even if you cannot understand, then the spiritual master will explain to you.Prabhupāda: As soon as it is invented by individual men or society, this is all rascaldom. It has no value.
Śyāmasundara: He calls it "the higher morality." Just like St. Paul or some great saint receives inspiration from God and he blazes a new trail to morality in a society.
Prabhupāda: That is nice. Because he is God conscious, he can dictate what is real morality.
Śyāmasundara: He's speaking of the case of St. Paul.
Prabhupāda: So St. Paul, he's a sādhu. So our process is that: sādhu-guru-śāstra. We have to accept everything through saintly person, confirmed by the scripture, and described or explained by guru. Then it is perfect. The scriptures are already there, and we have to see how the scriptures are being followed by saintly persons. And if there is any difficulty, they should be explained by the spiritual master. Then it is perfect. Sādhu-guru-śāstra-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya. Scriptures you cannot understand directly. Then you have to see how the scriptural injunctions are being followed by saintly persons. Even if you cannot understand, then the spiritual master will explain to you.Prabhupāda: That is our—Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He can order anything He likes, but you have to carry out Kṛṣṇa's order. If Kṛṣṇa says you to kill, then you can kill. You cannot say that "Kṛṣṇa has said to Arjuna to kill, therefore I shall kill."
Śyāmasundara: So what I mean is instead of saying that this is good and that is bad, all you can say really is what is good is what Kṛṣṇa says.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Śyāmasundara: Kṛṣṇa's order is what is good.
Prabhupāda: That is actually doing. Actually in our experience also, just like a soldier, he kills by the order, superior order of the state. He is given gold medal. And if the same man, when he comes home, if he kills, he is hanged. Why? Because you can kill under superior order, not whimsically. Generally the order is not to kill, but if he says now kill, you can... that is order, that you have to take. And if you say at that time, "Sir, you told me not to kill," that is (indistinct). General order and specific order. So Kṛṣṇa says, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam [Bg. 13.8]. He is giving the process of knowledge, amānitvam adambhitvam, not to be proud, ahiṁsā, nonviolence. These are there, eighteen qualities for understanding spiritual values. So it is general. Now for particular purposes if Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, you must kill," you must abide by that order. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: So the standard of what ought to be is that one should fulfill one's duty to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is good, that is moral, real morality.Prabhupāda: You can think, but if you are helped by somebody else who knows the way, then it becomes easier. You are thinking of driving a car. If somebody expert... (break) ...that is practical. Yes.
Śyāmasundara: He says that it is very difficult because the nonego objects are always trying to lead us astray.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you have to take advantage of an experienced man who knows things. He does not accept any superior.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the moral goal, the moral reality of (indistinct) is the ultimate in superiority...
Prabhupāda: That morality we have already discussed, what is the morality. You can create your own morality, I can create my own morality. What is actual morality?
Śyāmasundara: Maybe that's a good place to end. (end)Hayagrīva: Immanuel Kant. Being a son of the Enlightenment, Kant strongly advocated the right and duty of every man to judge for himself in religious and secular matters. Indeed, he considered the motto of the Enlightenment to be, "Have courage to make use of your own intellect." The emphasis here is on individual freedom and on the ability of man to intuit the truth.
Prabhupāda: Does it mean that anyone, whatever he does, that is perfectly right? If he is given that freedom, then anyone will do anything as he likes. So it will be taken as...
Hayagrīva: Well he, at the same time, he considered the Bible to be the best vehicle for the instruction of the public in a truly moral religion.
Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept some authority. Where is freedom?
Hayagrīva: He believed that the individual can intuit truths within, but could be helped from without by scripture.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he should not become independent, but he advocates in the beginning that everyone should be independent. So that is not right proposal. One should be dependent on authority, and that authority should be recognized or well established. Then knowledge is possible.Hayagrīva: Well, this is the weak..., this seems to be the weakness in his philosophy. He says, "For a rational but finite being the only thing possible is an endless progress from the lower to the higher degrees of moral perfection." So...
Prabhupāda: That means endless struggle to understand real morality. But if he takes the order of God, that he must do it, that is final morality.Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Cyavana: [break] ...the standard of morality, Arjuna's activity of killing was immoral.
Prabhupāda: Morality, immorality, this is all creation of mind. Real purpose of life, to serve the order of Kṛṣṇa, that is real morality.