Guest (1): Swamiji, what actually I was coming to, most humbly, cannot spread to the (indistinct) science go together. It's not...
Prabhupāda: No, if science is really science, that is helpful. If science is based on wrong theory, then what is the use of that. Everything is wrong. So many mathematical calculation, if there is any item wrong, then whole thing is wrong.
Guest (1): So we are all moving in the darkness, ignorance, to begin with.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that if you admit then you will get knowledge. But that is not the position. You are falsely proud that you are very advanced in knowledge.
Guest (1): No Swamiji, no...
Prabhupāda: Then you are qualified.
Guest (1): Even for a small experiment, I don't pretend that we know anything, whatever it is.
Prabhupāda: Actually that is the position, therefore our business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa demands that, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence how to become perfect.
- teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
- bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
- dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam...
- (BG 10.10)
This is the process. You take instruction from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Don't be proud of your paltry knowledge. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement that Kṛṣṇa is perfect and take knowledge from Him—you'll be perfect. That is our proposal.
Guest (1): That we believe in.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are not perfect. We can speculate only and that is not perfection. "Maybe," "perhaps," like that. No definite knowledge. The definite knowledge you can get from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Therefore all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa. We have to follow the ācāryas, ācāryopāsanam. So in India all these ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, they accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme absolute. Why you should not? Are you more than these ācāryas? Then? That is the defect of modern education, they manufacture education although they're imperfect. They have no the common sense that "I am imperfect, how I am manufacturing education and becoming teacher. My becoming teacher is cheating because I have no perfect knowledge." Knowledge means it must be perfect, not "maybe," "perhaps." This is not knowledge. Definite knowledge.
Guest (1): But to bring some message of truth to the people all over the world which are...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the message is there, Kṛṣṇa's message.
Guest (1): Four billion, we need some people who will say, "I am the teachers."
Prabhupāda: No, that we are teaching, that you take Kṛṣṇa as the authority. Don't go to the rascals. All problems will be solved. But they are going to the rascals, instead of going to Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Guest (3): You mean Swamiji then that all scientific efforts, whatever they are, should be stopped altogether?
Prabhupāda: No, not stopped. Just like you have got ordinary car and you purchase a Rolls-Royce car. The business is the same. It is simply an artistic improvement. In the ordinary car there is much jerking and the Rolls-Royce car there is no jerking. That will not benefit you. After all it is car. You can use it for going here to there, there to here, that's all. Therefore our Vedic civilization, they are not very much eager to manufacture a motor car, they are satisfied with the bullock cart. Because after all you have to go from this place to that place. And there was no need of big, big roads, three thousand miles long for driving the car. You see. The bullock cart was sufficient, here to there, a few miles. But they were interested to cultivate spiritual knowledge. That is Indian civilization. Vyāsadeva was living in a cottage and just see literature. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was prime minister of India and he was living in a cottage, drawing no salary and he has given his politics and moral lesson, so sublime. So here at the present moment, the motor car civilization, he's anxious how to get a Rolls-Royce motor car, that's all. That is his business.
Guest (3): When you say Swamiji, very humbly I would like to know, that scientific inventions should not be stopped, what should be the actual modus operandi continuum on...
Prabhupāda: Modus... athāto brahma jijñāsā, to enquire of the absolute truth. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ, karma you should do but the kāmasya nendriya-prītiḥ, find out this verse. (aside:) You can close this door. Kāmasya nendriya-prītiḥ, our desires should not be engaged for sense gratification. That is going on. All desires, all improvement, all science, they are being... Just like you were speaking about the protein deficiency. That is all concerning the body. Body means senses. There is no higher study.
Guest (3): That we admit that there's not very high study and it's not something final but I think some...
Prabhupāda: No, that protein fooding supply... Suppose the birds and bees, they have no research institute. They have sufficient protein supply, this supply and that supply by nature. An elephant has got so big body and so much strength that they have not found it by your scientific research. The nature is supplying. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), it is being done. Why you are wasting time in this way? You study what is prakṛti, and what is behind prakṛti. That is real study. The protein supply is already being done. Just like a cow is eating grass and she's supplying milk, full of protein, so do you think the protein is coming from the grass? Can you eat grass?
Guest (3): Something must be...
Prabhupāda: Some... That is something, then there's no perfect knowledge. That is not perfect knowledge. It is... Everyone knows the cow does not take any protein food, it takes on the grass.
Guest (1): Grass is quite rich in protein.
Prabhupāda: Then you take, why you are searching after protein?
Guest (1): Because we cannot digest the fibre in it.
Prabhupāda: Then? Then it is not suitable for you. Therefore nature's arrangement is that protein can be produced through the body of the cow.
Guest (1): I think Swamiji, nature's arrangement was not made for (indistinct) human beings that we have come.
Prabhupāda: Nature was defective, you mean to say?
Guest (1): No, sir.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Guest (1): I mean nature's way is designed as a ecological balance of the...
Prabhupāda: Nature's... If you follow the nature's law, then everything is there. If you deviate (from) the nature's law, then that is defective. (indistinct—some guests reply all together)
Guest (1): Swamiji, nature's balance has been upset by us, us...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Therefore I say...
Guest (1): Otherwise there would not be that many human beings here. It was all the time checked by nature's forces. We have just constrained nature by our efforts.
Prabhupāda: So that is, that is my point that nature is doing. As soon as you violate nature, then you become defective. That is... Therefore one should live natural life.
Satsvarūpa: Kāmasya nendriya?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Satsvarūpa: Do you want me to read this, kāmasya nendriya-prītiḥ?
Prabhupāda: India? No, I'm not speaking of India.
Satsvarūpa: Kāmasya nendriya-prītiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, kāma, yes. Read it.
Satsvarūpa: "Life's desires should never be aimed at gratifying the senses."
Prabhupāda: Read the verses.
Satsvarūpa:
- kāmasya nendriya-prītir
- lābho jīveta yāvatā
- jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā
- nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ
- (SB 1.2.10)
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the meaning that kāmasya, we have got some demands of the body. That does not mean it is meant for sense gratification. We require something, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, these four things are the demands of the body. We must eat something, we must sleep for some time, we must have sex life also, we must defend. That is all right but not for sense gratification. That a child is required, progeny is required, for that sex life is good, but they are using sex life for pleasure and killing the child. And implicated in sinful activities and therefore suffering. And scientists encouraging them, "Yes, you can kill child."Why should you create child and kill him? That nonsense, they cannot understand.